[00:26] <hajour> till tomorrow all
[01:45] <hajour> charlie-tca,  have you time for pm i am so angry
[12:01] <Pendulum> Riddell: when you tried Orca in Natty were you using Unity?
[12:01] <Pendulum> (on Gnome, I mean)
[12:02] <Riddell> Pendulum: no
[12:04] <Pendulum> hmm... okay
[12:05] <Pendulum> (I"m trying to think if I know anyone who has tested Orca in Natty on non-Unity. I may have to go check that now)
[13:04] <hajour> Pendulum, i dont work now official i promised not to work now you see.but if it is not a to heavy program i would gladly want to help testeing it
[13:04] <hajour> testing
[16:18] <apinheiro> Pendulum, about unity and orca, if you are using at-spi
[16:19] <apinheiro> today I applied the solution to this bug
[16:19] <apinheiro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/739689
[16:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 739689 in unity "[a11y] Launcher a11y support works with at-spi2 but not with at-spi" [Undecided,Fix committed]
[16:19] <apinheiro> so I guess that it is not included in any package
[16:19] <apinheiro> anyway, right now
[16:19] <apinheiro> only the launcher and the panel has a testable orca support
[16:19] <apinheiro> but I would appreciate any feedback
[16:20] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: ^^
[16:20] <charlie-tca> looking at it
[16:20] <Pendulum> apinheiro: thanks for the heads up :)
[16:21] <apinheiro> Pendulum, thanks to take care of it
[16:21] <charlie-tca> I don't see anything to be done there, just one more bug against unity for us
[16:21] <apinheiro> one of the thing we were worried what about testing from other people
[16:21] <charlie-tca> Yes, we need to know what is broken, but that one already says it has a fix 
[16:22] <charlie-tca> I think TheMuso has the right idea, forcing a fallback to 2d for accessibility
[16:23] <charlie-tca> apinheiro: where did you get information that natty will use at-spi2?
[16:23] <charlie-tca> I still it using at-spi
[16:23] <charlie-tca> s/still it/still show it
[16:24] <charlie-tca> !info at-spi2 natty
 Package at-spi2 does not exist in natty
[16:25] <apinheiro> charlie-tca, I know
[16:25] <apinheiro> this is the reason I opened that bug
[16:25] <apinheiro> because it was not working properly with at-spi
[16:25] <charlie-tca> If natty will not even have at-spi2, then we need a fix that makes things work without it, right?
[16:25] <apinheiro> that is the one what will be used on natty
[16:25] <apinheiro> charlie-tca, that bug is fixed
[16:25] <apinheiro> what I tried to tell Pendulum 
[16:25] <charlie-tca> without at-spi2?
[16:25] <apinheiro> is that without this fix
[16:26] <apinheiro> was not possible to test unity with orca
[16:26] <apinheiro> and this fix was applied today
[16:26] <charlie-tca> I tested it on the 18th and it worked
[16:26] <apinheiro> so I guess that it is not available on any natty package
[16:26] <apinheiro> it worked the interaction with natty?
[16:26] <apinheiro> sorry
[16:26] <apinheiro> it worked the interaction with unity?
[16:26] <apinheiro> or you tested it with other apps?
[16:26] <charlie-tca> yes, I did a screen-reader install and it worked with unity
[16:27] <charlie-tca> I have that install running on another machine, orca works
[16:27] <apinheiro> so orca was speeching out when you interacted with the launcher?
[16:27] <charlie-tca> yes
[16:28] <apinheiro> and with the dash?
[16:28] <charlie-tca> the dash is not accessible at all, that I can tell
[16:28] <apinheiro> yes I know, it is a bug open
[16:28] <apinheiro> but it is weird
[16:28] <apinheiro> until this commit 
[16:28] <apinheiro> with at-spi 
[16:28] <apinheiro> orca didn't react
[16:28] <apinheiro> with the launcher
[16:29] <apinheiro> anyway, no problem
[16:29] <charlie-tca> So it now works, right?
[16:29] <apinheiro> launcher yes
[16:29] <apinheiro> dash no
[16:29] <charlie-tca> Thus the reason we need to fallback to 2d without the dash for accessibility, right?
[16:30] <Pendulum> I thought it was falling back to gnome-desktop, not 2d Unity
[16:30] <Pendulum> (sorry, to my brain 2d = 2d Unity)
[16:31] <apinheiro> charlie-tca, yes I guess so
[16:31] <charlie-tca> could be my mistake, but I thought 2d meant no dash
[16:32] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: you may be right for Natty
[16:32] <apinheiro> 2d what?
[16:32] <apinheiro> unity-2d?
[16:32] <apinheiro> or the old gnome-desktop ?
[16:32] <charlie-tca> when logging in you have the option to choose classic-gnome desktop session
[16:32] <charlie-tca> That is what we should be falling back to for this
[16:32] <apinheiro> charlie-tca, ok thanks
[16:33] <charlie-tca> It uses compiz, but not unity
[16:33] <apinheiro> just for some effects
[16:33] <charlie-tca> right
[16:33] <apinheiro> but the low layers are still the old gnome desktop
[16:33] <apinheiro> sorry
[16:33] <apinheiro> as Pendulum said, I also confused this 2d
[16:33] <apinheiro> with unity-2d
[16:33] <charlie-tca> but at least then orca and the speech programs should work for us
[16:33] <apinheiro> that afaik, it doesn't have any a11y support at all
[16:33] <charlie-tca> why?
[16:34] <Pendulum> I'm sure unity-2d doesn't have a11y support because it's Qt based
[16:34] <charlie-tca> It should be the old gnome, which did have support
[16:34] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: 2d Unity they were using Qt for
[16:34] <charlie-tca> Oh, then I got the terms confused bad.
[16:34] <charlie-tca> I will use classic-gnome to mean the right session, then.
[16:35] <Pendulum> ta
[16:35] <charlie-tca> sorry
[16:35] <Pendulum> s'ok
[16:35] <Pendulum> the whole thing is confusing
[16:35] <charlie-tca> very
[16:35] <apinheiro> yeah, at first I though that unity-2d was a kind of unity backend
[16:36] <apinheiro> but afaik are totally different
[16:36] <apinheiro> just the same appearance
[16:36] <AlanBell> so new unity 2d is different to Maverick unity?
[16:36] <charlie-tca> yes
[16:36] <charlie-tca> nothing is quite the same as Maverick 
[16:36] <apinheiro> AlanBell, there are two different programas
[16:37] <AlanBell> wow, didn't realise that
[16:37] <apinheiro> now there are two unity
[16:37] <AlanBell> so we have three unities in total
[16:37] <apinheiro> unity that uses opengl 
[16:37] <apinheiro> and unity-2d that uses qt
[16:37] <AlanBell> maverick, natty 3d and natty 2d
[16:37] <apinheiro> that doesn't require a special hw
[16:37] <apinheiro> well, afaik, maverick unity is "the past"
[16:38] <apinheiro> is being replaced by the new natty unity
[16:38] <charlie-tca> Yes, it certainly is
[16:38] <AlanBell> yup
[16:38] <AlanBell> although it is "the present" on my computer
[16:38] <charlie-tca> And, the new natty unity is the nightmare for us
[16:39] <charlie-tca> apinheiro: I will do a new install of natty today, and try the classic-gnome with orca
[16:42] <apinheiro> ok, but just for your information, my work is about accessibility on unity
[16:42] <apinheiro> but it is clear that if unity thing is not complete, classig-gnome would be required
[16:42] <charlie-tca> heh, as heard in #ubuntu-desktop:
 pitti: launcher is fully a11y. Still need some investigation this week for places though
[16:42]  * Pendulum is very tempted to say "unless you need to use the onscreen keyboard"
[16:42] <charlie-tca> Yeah, that and Orca today, apparently
[16:43] <Pendulum> or is that on the dash that the issue showed up?
[16:43] <charlie-tca> but they are very sure
[16:43] <charlie-tca> dash
[16:43] <charlie-tca> Can't use any onscreen keyboard with dash
[16:43] <Pendulum> also when did blind people become the only people with a11y needs?>
[16:43] <Pendulum> like, seriously!
[16:43] <charlie-tca> heh
[16:44] <Pendulum> (sorry, just saw another comment in same meeting)
[16:44] <charlie-tca> I tried telling them a11y includes Orca, but that went no where
[16:44] <charlie-tca> It's a losing battle now in natty. They will insist it works, as long as they don't need it
[16:45] <Pendulum> you can see my comment I just made
[16:45] <charlie-tca> yeah, I see it
[16:46] <Pendulum> i'm going to poke after the meeting rather than disrupt
[16:46] <charlie-tca> Like the comment I made on a mailing list, accessibility gets one step forward, and loses two steps getting there.
[16:49] <AlanBell> hajour: your yahoo account is sending spam :(
[16:49] <apinheiro> Pendulum, well, as I implementing the atk support for unity, I was just using orca to test that those thing were working
[16:49] <apinheiro> but you are right
[16:49] <apinheiro> ie
[16:49] <apinheiro> someone tested the zoom plugin of compiz with unity?
[16:49] <AlanBell> yes
[16:50] <apinheiro> someone know if they are not "firiendly each other"?
[16:50] <apinheiro> AlanBell, and it works fine the mixture unity+eZoom?
[16:50] <AlanBell> it did work but right now I can't start it for some reason, I am halfway through a dist upgrade at the moment
[16:52] <apinheiro> AlanBell, ok thanks
[16:55] <AlanBell> seems the superkey+mousewheel binding vanished on my machine at least
[16:56] <AlanBell> however I got it working and it zooms the desktop and apps successfully and I can use them whilst zoomed
[16:56] <AlanBell> what it doesn't do is zoom the unity dock
[16:57] <AlanBell> so they are getting friendly but not BFF just yet
[16:57] <AlanBell> you can use the dock whilst zoomed
[16:59] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: do you know if there are any bugs filed yet about the issues with onscreen keyboards in Unity?
[16:59] <AlanBell> and the colour filters don't get applied to the dock
[17:00] <Pendulum> AlanBell: those sound like bugs
[17:01] <AlanBell> possibly
[17:02] <AlanBell> I will retest once this upgrade has finished
[17:02] <Pendulum> *nods*
[17:02] <charlie-tca> yes, I filed one yesterday
[17:03] <AlanBell> ah, I see why they do it like that
[17:03] <charlie-tca> and there is another one about a different issue, I will have to look up
[17:03] <AlanBell> it is going to be a wontfix
[17:03] <AlanBell> the workspace switcher does the expose zoom out to show 6 desktops, you wouldn't want the dock to zoom out with it
[17:04] <AlanBell> so they do the compiz stuff, then afterwards slap the dock on top of it
[17:04] <AlanBell> so it isn't going to get zoomed, or colour filtered, or anything else really
[17:04] <charlie-tca> bug 739812
[17:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739812
[17:05] <Pendulum> AlanBell: yeah, but that doesn't make it right
[17:05] <cprofitt> hey Pendulum 
[17:05] <Pendulum> AlanBell: better to raise the bug, use it for discussion, etc.
[17:05] <Pendulum> hi charlie-tca 
[17:06] <Pendulum> bah
[17:06] <Pendulum> cprofitt: 
[17:06] <AlanBell> Pendulum: I will
[17:06] <Pendulum> AlanBell: subscribe me to it?
[17:06] <cprofitt> looks like we have some bugs coming in for accessibility, heh?
[17:06] <AlanBell> I will look through the list of plugins to see what other interesting things don't affect the dock
[17:07] <cprofitt> for the global jam is there going to be an easy way to identify the accessibility bugs?
[17:08] <charlie-tca> They are all tagged a11y
[17:08] <cprofitt> nice.
[17:08] <cprofitt> I think I may have a group of students at RIT that will want to work on those specifically
[17:08] <charlie-tca> Great!
[17:08] <cprofitt> can't promise, but that is my expectation
[17:09] <cprofitt> they are NTID students
[17:09] <charlie-tca> I will keep tagging them. I am subscribed to every accessibility package
[17:10] <Pendulum> cprofitt: also, if they'd be willing to do more testing on a11y installs, it's always good :)
[17:11] <charlie-tca> and make sure the applications work, too
[17:11] <Pendulum> yes
[17:15] <AlanBell> hmm
[17:15] <AlanBell> my Natty VM seems to be telling me that it is time to re-test the full installation procedure
[17:17] <charlie-tca> I can't get Unity to work in VBox now, without installing guest additions
[17:18] <charlie-tca> um, that is VBox-OSE, and I haven't tried guest additions
[17:21] <AlanBell> it doesn't
[17:22] <AlanBell> it needs vbox 4 and guest additions
[17:26] <cprofitt> Pendulum: I think they would be.
[17:26] <charlie-tca> it used to work in VBox-OSE too
[17:26] <cprofitt> I want to show them the wiki too...
[17:27] <cprofitt> I hope to get a small group involved at the school... but we will see how it goes.
[17:27] <cprofitt> far too often people say they will show up and then do not.
[17:58] <hajour> hi all after i had kicked phillw out of the team with good reasons.there now are being send mails out of my name to accessibility,speechcontrol but also it is go trough to officel help instances who email adresses are now be used
[17:58] <hajour> what can i do about this
[17:58] <hajour> the mail is titled howdy
[17:59] <hajour> i not have send it
[17:59] <hajour> i not want put it in ubt but if that mail also go be used to send to then i will have no choice to inform everybody
[18:00] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: ^ ^ 
[18:00] <hajour> charlie-tca,  cprofitt AlanBell duanedesign jono mhall119 a
[18:01] <hajour> weird mails are being send out of my name whit my email adres
[18:01] <hajour> and speechcontrol launchpadmail to
[18:02] <hajour> but also by a other persons instance mail from adhd/add and attached
[18:02] <hajour> this not only do harm to me and speechcontrol but also harms others to
[18:04] <charlie-tca> hajour: Thank you for telling us
[18:04] <hajour> i not bo what to do about this honest say
[18:05] <hajour> bo=no
[18:05] <hajour> know
[18:05] <hajour> also not who to tell this
[18:05] <charlie-tca> You have done it right. 
[18:05] <hajour> you where the ones i thought i must tell
[18:06] <charlie-tca> You tell people that get these emails, and they delete them
[18:06] <hajour> yes and after that?
[18:06] <charlie-tca> If it gets real bad, you can change email address
[18:06] <hajour> it has to stop he use my email adress
[18:06] <charlie-tca> If not, then you can not do anything
[18:07] <hajour> i am so tired of this
[18:07] <hajour> i left lubuntu just to avoid situations like this
[18:07] <AlanBell> hajour: this is your yahoo account getting hacked by a spammer, it is nothing to do with anyone you know
[18:07] <hajour> not for people from lubuntu
[18:07] <charlie-tca> I have one email address that this happened to. I never found a good fix
[18:07] <hajour> but 1 person
[18:08] <hajour> you not know what is more happened AlanBell  i have inform Pendulum  and we have inform cprofitt 
[18:09] <hajour> i not want anymore that behind the curtains mess anymore
[18:10] <hajour> i have give permision on Pendulum  to let read all councilmembers the pm between Pendulum  and me
[18:11] <hajour> so only choice is to take a other email adres
[18:12] <hajour> uh i lost spellings corecction in English suddenly
[18:12] <charlie-tca> Maybe wait a few days and see if things settle down again.
[18:12] <hajour> which light weight program there is more from ubuntu?
[18:12] <charlie-tca> for email?
[18:13] <hajour> nop i have kicked him because i had head it whit the manipulation in pm
[18:13] <hajour> no on chat here
[18:13] <hajour> and i want this stopped soon as possible
[18:14] <AlanBell> if you can still log on to your account then do so, and change your password there
[18:14] <AlanBell> hajour: this has *nothing* to do with phillw or any of the drama surrounding that whole speechcontrol/sii thing
[18:14] <hajour> ye sure
[18:15] <hajour> i will send the mails i had get from him to cprofitt not the spam other
[18:15] <hajour> i not like to be set up to other peoples
[18:16] <hajour> but i talk later i need to do things for my kids now
[18:28] <pleia2> charlie-tca: is discussion about onboard keyboard and search happening anywhere but the mailing list and that bug report? /me notices Importance changes
[18:28] <pleia2> s/the mailing list/the original thread on -accessibility
[18:30] <Pendulum> pleia2: it's actually been on ubuntu-devel-discuss
[18:30] <pleia2> Pendulum: ah, thanks
[18:31] <pleia2> ah yeah, gmail was smart and merged the threads when I read it in my accessibility label
[21:13] <Cheri703> can someone ping me when charlie-tca shows up?
[21:44] <AlanBell> well Natty is totally screwed at the moment if you are running it in virtualbox
[21:44] <AlanBell> so time for some work on the daniela persona
[21:47] <AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/daniela for anyone wanting to join in
[22:27] <hajour> question how i can get command again from my own channel?
[22:27] <hajour> someone removed my operator status
[22:27] <hajour> on my own channel
[22:31] <AlanBell> hajour: what channel?
[22:31] <hajour> #speechcontrol-offtopic
[22:32] <hajour> i not know by the others i not have tried also not UndiFineD  but there some things have been changed
[22:33] <AlanBell> UndiFineD has ops there and can fix it
[22:33] <hajour> ok 
[22:33] <hajour> and i have i still command now?
[22:33] <hajour> i had first voice
[22:34] <AlanBell> sorry, I don't know that much about IRC
[22:35] <AlanBell> however you are not cloaked at the moment
[22:35] <hajour> well i was till tomorrow
[22:35] <hajour> also my mail worked till tomorrow
[22:35] <hajour> i had voice in my channel till this morning
[22:35] <maco> hajour: do you mean yesterday?
[22:36] <maco> or are you predicting the future?
[22:36] <hajour> 22 march 6.30 morning amsterdam time
[22:36] <maco> oh, so today
[22:36] <AlanBell> hajour: get UndiFineD to say /msg chanserv flags #speechcontrol-offtopic
[22:37] <hajour> then everything was still normal well most then
[22:37] <AlanBell> nothing has changed
[22:37] <hajour> ok i have copied it in dialoog window
[22:37] <hajour> and i know go to his pc
[22:38] <hajour> because UndiFineD  is sleeping
[22:40] <hajour> i have 4 voice ? freenode 5 and why Mohi is having a flag?
[22:41] <hajour> i cant recover also
[22:42] <hajour> i had in beginning first voice
[22:42] <hajour> UndiFineD,  sec
[22:43] <hajour> and the jmarsden and charlie-tca
[22:43] <hajour> and jacky offcourse
[22:44] <hajour> dthen daniel because he is team lreader from seechcontrol inferno
[22:44] <AlanBell> this isn't really the place to sort it out
[22:44] <AlanBell> however can you paste the line that just relates to your name here
[22:44] <hajour> daniel and  michaeh asked to give michael also voice because i needed to change topic in inferno
[22:45] <AlanBell> or even better lets talk in #speechcontrol-offtopic as this conversation is irrelevant to most people here
[22:45] <hajour> ok