[00:53] <robert_ancell> RAOF, the alt-tab crash is back with a vengance
[00:53] <RAOF> Poot.
[00:53] <RAOF> And I've just switched out my radeon!
[00:53] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Got a backtrace for me?
[00:54] <robert_ancell> I had two apport traces, but they seemed to match exissting bug
[00:54] <robert_ancell> existing bugs
[00:54] <RAOF> Could you point me at them?
[00:54] <robert_ancell> I can probably trigger it again, will an apport trace do?
[00:55] <RAOF> Yeah, it'd be a fine start.
[00:56] <robert_ancell> yeah, of course now it doesn't happen...
[00:56] <RAOF> :)
[00:57] <RAOF> Can you remember the top of the stacktrace?  Did it look like a graphics bug, or a compiz bug?
[00:57] <RAOF> Or, at least, was the top frame in libGL or r600_dri.so :)
[00:57] <robert_ancell> it was compiz crashing, but in a vague location
[00:57] <robert_ancell> like bug 737467
[00:58] <robert_ancell> I marked another as affecting me, but can't work out how to find it..
[00:58] <RAOF> lol
[00:58] <robert_ancell> RAOF, anyway, it seems quite frequent since the last dist-upgrade.  I'll ping you when it occurs again
[00:59]  * robert_ancell -> lunch
[00:59] <RAOF> If it's like 737467 it doesn't look like a driver bug.
[01:22] <bcurtiswx> there's also a bug with using nautilus for sftp/ssh
[01:22] <bcurtiswx> it crashes unity
[02:06] <TheMuso> Oh I see why gtk/unity window decorator doesn't make a sound when the system bell is meant to be used.
[02:06] <TheMuso> Its not using libcanberra.
[02:06]  * TheMuso will see about cooking up a patch if he has time in the next few days.
[06:38] <pitti> Good morning
[06:39] <pitti> jasoncwarner: hey, how are you?
[07:10] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[07:11] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[07:15] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, morning TheMuso
[07:16] <tualatrix> pitti: hey, Marin, morning. :D
[07:16] <pitti> hey tualatrix
[07:19] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[07:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks!
[07:20] <pitti> chrisccoulson: how about you? still sleep deprivation?
[07:20] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it's not so bad this morning ;)
[07:23] <pitti> chrisccoulson: seems you are becoming a regular early bird then
[07:23] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[07:36] <didrocks> good morning
[07:36] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:37] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti. How are you?
[07:40] <duanedesign> hello didrocks
[07:41] <didrocks> hey duanedesign
[07:52] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks!
[07:52] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[07:52] <didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson!
[07:52] <didrocks> I'm really good, thanks! And you?
[07:53] <didrocks> (feel way better than last week when I was tired from Monday. Taking Friday off was really a nice option)
[07:53] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, i'm good too thsnkd
[07:53] <chrisccoulson> oops
[07:54] <chrisccoulson> i don't know what happened there ;)
[08:01] <slomo> kenvandine: the gst-plugins-bad debug and doc package is going to conflict with the good debug/doc packages too btw...
[08:10] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, swt-gtk is giving me a real headache
[08:19] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> anyone here familiar with JNI?
[08:43] <pitti> ugh, last time I touched JNI was in university on an embedded java microcontroller
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> heh
[08:44] <chrisccoulson> i'm struggling with a crasher in the new swt-gtk. for some reason, a pointer that is passed between native functions seems to get truncated to 32bits
[08:44] <chrisccoulson> and i can't work out why :(
[08:48] <seb128> hello desktopers
[08:49] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[08:49] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you? up early today
[08:49] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:50] <seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm not too bad thanks
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[08:50] <pitti> seb128: btw, I noticed the pygobject .1, but currently working with the Debian guys on the dh_python2 migration
[08:50] <pitti> seb128: I hope we can get that and .1 into experimental, and then just sync
[08:50] <seb128> pitti, ok, I figured so, thanks
[08:50] <pitti> (we have no delta left any more)
[08:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks ;-)
[08:51] <seb128> session restart brb
[08:53] <mvo> Sweetshark: hi, did you had a chance yet to look at the following upgrade error in OOo http://paste.ubuntu.com/583704/ ? iirc we talked about it a couple of days ago. let me know if I should prepare a patch for it
[08:53] <seb128> bah
[08:53] <seb128> pitti, you are no fun you didn't wait for me to remind you about the reminder :p
[08:54] <pitti> seb128: je suis désolé!
[08:54] <rodrigo_> hi seb128, pitti
[08:56] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[08:56] <seb128> pitti, ;-)
[08:56] <seb128> rodrigo_, how are you?
[08:57] <rodrigo_> seb128, very recovered, I went quite early to sleep last night, so I'm full of energy  now :)
[08:57] <seb128> excellent! ;-)
[08:57] <rodrigo_> seb128, you?
[08:57] <seb128> still waking up but fine otherwise ;-)
[08:57] <rodrigo_> :)
[09:02] <seb128> gord, njpatel: how is the fix to that devicelaunchericon crash going?
[09:03] <seb128> things like bug #740016 or bug #739996 are probably the same issue
[09:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 740016 in unity "unity crashes when connecting iPhone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740016
[09:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 739996 in unity "Mounting an iso in Gmount-iso crashes unity." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739996
[09:03] <didrocks> seb128: the status didn't change on it. Still targeted for this week
[09:04] <seb128> didrocks, I noticed it didn't change that's why I'm pinging, I would like to see it targetted for today and backported to natty
[09:04] <seb128> it makes unity crashing for quite some users and bug spam launchpad a bit
[09:04] <njpatel> seb128, gord is working on crashers, I can ask him to look at those as priority
[09:05] <seb128> njpatel, please do
[09:05] <seb128> njpatel, it's spamming launchpad and hitting quite some users
[09:05] <pitti> yeah, I noticed that unity is very crash-happy whenever I plug in an USB stick
[09:05] <seb128> njpatel, every time you connect a device unity crash basically
[09:05] <seb128> well maybe not every time but it's likely to crash
[09:06] <njpatel> no stacktrace so hopefully he can reproduce it locally
[09:06] <seb128> njpatel, ?
[09:06] <seb128> bug #737318
[09:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 737318 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in DeviceLauncherIcon::UpdateVisibility()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/737318
[09:06] <njpatel> thats better
[09:07] <seb128> njpatel, I've pinged about that yesterday morning already, gord said he was on it ;-)
[09:07] <njpatel> why is there a merge request from someone else
[09:07] <seb128> njpatel, there is also a merge request waiting for review on this bug
[09:07] <seb128> njpatel, it was before gord said he would work on it...
[09:07] <didrocks> seb128: I pinged as well FYI yesterday on it:)
[09:08] <seb128> didrocks, thanks ;-)
[09:08] <didrocks> (when I changed the milestone)
[09:10] <njpatel> wtf
[09:10] <njpatel> Who has been playing with my code?
[09:11] <gord> seb128, there is already a community fix for it - i just need to do a proper review of the branch before merging it in because it does a lot of other stuff too
[09:11] <pitti> seb128: I had that coming, I guess -- just after two weeks of stability when I install current natty on my wife's laptop, it goes mad again :)
[09:12] <seb128> gord, can we get a "stop crashing" fix we can backport to natty?
[09:12] <seb128> gord, natty is barely usuable due to it
[09:12] <njpatel> gord, unless the community fix works somewhat like https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/713423 dont' approve it
[09:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 713423 in unity "Unity launcher gets cluttered when having multiple partitions and/or external volumes attached" [Medium,Confirmed]
[09:12] <gord> seb128, really? i didn't think it was that widespread - no crashes here
[09:12] <njpatel> gord, the fix to stop the crashing is 1 line
[09:13] <seb128> gord, see the right column list of duplicates on the bug
[09:13] <njpatel> seb128, ^
[09:13] <njpatel> DeviceLauncherSection::98 = if (icon) icon->UpdateVisibility ()
[09:13] <seb128> gord, there is a lot of bugs with no stracktrace like those I pointed as well
[09:13] <seb128> crashes when plugging phone or random use devices
[09:13] <pitti> or on login
[09:13] <pitti> (perhaps when gvfs starts up and enumerates stuff)
[09:14] <seb128> njpatel, thanks, can we get that in trunk, so I can cherry pick it and then you can do extra refactoring if you want?
[09:14] <pitti> or just apply it for now?
[09:14]  * pitti takes the finger off the "kill seb128" button
[09:15] <seb128> re
[09:15] <seb128> sorry extra session restarts
[09:16] <seb128> I should be done for now
[09:16] <njpatel> seb128, it's in trunk now, should stop crashes, but gord needs to review the other branch to see if it provides a proper fix
[09:16] <seb128> njpatel, I'm fine with stopping fixes
[09:16] <njpatel> i'm not sure wtf is going on in that code
[09:16]  * njpatel adds note to review
[09:16] <njpatel> i need tea
[09:16] <seb128> that's what is creating the retracers load and launchpad noise and confusing users
[09:16] <seb128> njpatel, thanks!
[09:16] <pitti> seb128: much appreciated; I'm happy to test it, too
[09:17] <pitti> seb128: do you want to cherrypick it right now?
[09:17] <seb128> didrocks, I'm backporting it if that's fine with you
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, yes, I'm on it
[09:17]  * pitti hugs seb128
[09:17]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[09:17] <didrocks> seb128: sure, thanks!
[09:17]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[09:18]  * didrocks hugs seb128 back
[09:21] <huats> morning everyone
[09:22] <seb128> lut huats
[09:22] <seb128> ca va ?
[09:22] <huats> hello seb128 !
[09:22] <huats> ça va !
[09:22] <huats> et toi ?
[09:23] <seb128> ca va nickel
[09:26] <huats> cool
[10:01] <seb128> ups
[10:01] <seb128> njpatel, didrocks: sorry I wrote "git commit" in my changelog entry :p
[10:02] <seb128> that's what working mostly on GNOME do to you ;-)
[10:02] <didrocks> autotyping :p
[10:03] <seb128> didrocks, ok, in any case unity device crash cherry pick upload and unity-place-application xapian one as well
[10:04] <seb128> that should cut some bug noise
[10:04] <didrocks> seb128: excellent! thanks :)
[10:06] <seb128> bah, robert_ancell screwed gvfs again
[10:07] <seb128> having one merge-upstream source in our workflow doesn't work well
[10:07] <seb128> he updating the debian dir only
[10:13] <Sweetshark> pitti: ping?
[10:25] <pitti> hallo Sweetshark
[10:26] <seb128> mvo, hey
[10:29] <mvo> hey seb128
[10:30] <Sweetshark> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice-l10n/+bug/729727 <- apt-cache showpkg libreoffice-help-en-gb and dpkg-query -s libreoffice-l10n-common both look good here, what are they talking about?
[10:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 729727 in libreoffice-l10n "[natty] Invalid liblucene2-java Conflicts in packaging" [Undecided,Fix released]
[10:30] <seb128> pitti, you added python-aptdaemon-gtk3 right?
[10:30] <seb128> pitti, bug #725390 has quite some duplicates, seems to be a missing Replaces?
[10:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 725390 in aptdaemon "package python-aptdaemon.gtk3widgets 0.41+bzr586-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/pyshared/aptdaemon/gtk3widgets.py', which is also in package python-aptdaemon-gtk 0.40+bzr541-0ubuntu2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/725390
[10:30] <seb128> mvo, bug #733732
[10:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 733732 in aptdaemon "<type 'exceptions.AttributeError'>: 'Transaction' object has no attribute 'gettest'" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/733732
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: I can look at that, yes; thanks
[10:31] <seb128> mvo, it's a gettest -> gettext typo, trivial to fix
[10:31] <seb128> mvo, if you want to close an easy bug
[10:31] <mvo> thanks!
[10:31] <mvo> that is rather silly
[10:31] <seb128> mvo, yw
[10:31] <mvo> fixing now
[10:31]  * mvo hugs seb128
[10:31]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[10:32] <seb128> pitti, bug #737742 seems another gi utf8-ish error
[10:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 737742 in aptdaemon "<type 'exceptions.UnicodeDecodeError'>: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xd0 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/737742
[10:33] <seb128> pitti, not sure if you want to look at it...
[10:33] <pitti> seb128: less likely than the file overwrite one :) but opening tab to check later
[10:33] <seb128> ok
[10:33] <seb128> pitti, btw while you are here :p
[10:34] <seb128> pitti, is bug #736393 an annotation issue?
[10:34] <seb128> bug #736393
[10:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 736393 in software-properties "software-properties-gtk crashed with AttributeError in __getattr__(): 'gi.repository.Gdk' object has no attribute 'FUNC_MOVE'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736393
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: looks like it; queueing as well
[10:35] <seb128> pitti, can I assign it to you? seems the sort of things you can handle ;-)
[10:35] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[10:35] <pitti> seb128: please do
[10:35] <pitti> seb128: in return, I think we should just apply the patch for bug 703230; Debian guys don't seem to like it :/
[10:35] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 703230 in pango1.0 ""rm: cannot remove `/usr/share/doc/libpango1.0-0': Is a directory" when updating to 1.28.3-4" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/703230
[10:35] <pitti> but it's certainly not a downgrade issue at least for us
[10:35] <seb128> pitti, oh right, I forgot about that
[10:36] <seb128> pitti, well pochu said to feel free to commit a patch to the pkg-gnome svn
[10:36] <seb128> I was just not sure if I should add a || true or a if [ -d ... ] rmdir
[10:36] <seb128> and then I forgot
[10:38] <seb128> mvo, bug #738182 has some bugs as well, not sure if that's a bug or if the code should just catch the error to avoid apport noise
[10:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 738182 in aptdaemon "<class 'aptdaemon.lock.LockFailedError'>: Could not acquire lock on /var/lib/dpkg/lock. The lock is hold by apt-get." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738182
[10:39] <mvo> thanks seb128
[10:39] <seb128> mvo, np
[10:39] <seb128> sorry for the bug pinging noise
[10:39] <seb128> I'm done for now ;-)
[10:41] <seb128> mvo, oh, btw the type was in 3 files from a grep run
[10:41] <seb128> mvo, seems you fixed it in one only
[10:42] <seb128> are the other ones copies?
[10:42] <mvo> the typo?
[10:42] <mvo> I did a bzr grep and found only one
[10:42] <seb128> gettest
[10:43] <mvo> let me try again
[10:43] <mvo> symlink maybe? from python
[10:43] <mvo> ?
[10:43] <seb128> mvo, ok sorry yes
[10:44] <seb128> the other two are in tests which symlinks to aptdaemon dir
[10:45] <mvo> oki
[10:45] <mvo> no worries
[10:45] <mvo> btw, "bzr grep" == love
[10:46] <seb128> mvo, I didn't know about it but will try ;-)
[11:33] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, if you're interested, here's the compiz hang i was talking about yesterday - bug 740126 ;)
[11:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 740126 in compiz "compiz hangs randomly several times per day" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740126
[11:33] <chrisccoulson> not sure if that's an X issue or not
[11:33] <chrisccoulson> i got a trace from compiz
[11:35] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: Oh, boo.  That's probably pageflipping problem :(
[11:35] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[11:35] <chrisccoulson> i didn't expect you to respond just now ;)
[11:35] <RAOF> I am just off to bed, yes :)
[11:57] <bcurtiswx> im just getting up :-\
[11:58] <bcurtiswx> i'd much rather be going to bed
[12:09] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: thanks for the hang backtrace!
[12:11] <bcurtiswx> seb128, what tag am i supposed to add to bugs so that the versions page catches it?
[12:14] <seb128> bcurtiswx, desktop-upgrade
[12:14] <bcurtiswx> seb128, thx
[12:14] <seb128> bcurtiswx, the "open bug" column on version has the url with the tag set
[12:15] <bcurtiswx> i clicked that, actually, didn't set a tag :-\
[12:15] <seb128> well it's in the url
[12:20] <bcurtiswx> seb128, how quickly does telepathy get things into debian on average?
[12:21] <seb128> depends
[12:21] <seb128> if you need something you can ping them on #telepathy
[12:21] <seb128> but usually the delay is not worth doing an ubuntu upload
[12:22] <bcurtiswx> i was going to get telepathy-glib 0.14.0 ready, made the merge request but forgot it's not in debian yet (0.14.0 is the stable branch)
[12:23] <bcurtiswx> well sync request, sorry
[12:24] <seb128> you can try to ask on #telepathy
[12:25] <seb128> do we need the new version to unblock an upgrade or fix an annoying issue?
[12:25] <seb128> if not but we just want the new version we can probably just wait a bit on debian
[12:26] <bcurtiswx> sjoerds on that usually, i don't want to be my usual annoying self, especially with there being no major annoying bugs, just one new bug fix but it's trivial
[12:26] <seb128> you are not annoying
[12:26] <seb128> well, in fact we have a diff now thanks to ogra's armel build hack
[12:27] <ogra> :P
[12:27] <seb128> so you can as well do the update, we can't sync
[12:27] <seb128> ogra, ;-)
[12:27] <ogra> :)
[12:34] <rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/nautilus/fix-662194/+merge/54337
[12:35] <rodrigo_> seb128, also sent upstream, not committed yet, but it works
[12:35] <rodrigo_> seb128, so either we wait for upstream to accept it or we upload it while we wait for upstream?
[12:36] <seb128> rodrigo_, getting upstream review should be easy, ping cosimoc on #nautilus
[12:36] <seb128> rodrigo_, btw 2 smalls comments
[12:36] <rodrigo_> yeah, doing it now
[12:36] <seb128> - try to keep the bug reference in the description
[12:36] <seb128> - should you set the remember option to false in the case you hide the box?
[12:37] <seb128> since you restored the default to true
[12:37] <seb128> not sure about the second one since I didn't check the code to see what happens when the box is not displayed
[12:37] <seb128> but if it default to true it will store it?
[12:38] <rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, right about setting it to TRUE, I guess it will remember it
[12:44] <bcurtiswx> seb128, a diff for what?
[12:45] <seb128> bcurtiswx, telepathy-glib to build without optimization on armel to workaround compiler issuers
[12:45] <seb128> issues
[12:45] <seb128> which debian doesn't need because their compiler settings doesn't trigger it
[12:45] <seb128> we will need to keep the diff for natty
[12:45] <seb128> so we can't direct sync new versions
[12:46] <bcurtiswx> ah, OK.  So a bzr merge-upstream then?
[12:46] <seb128> not sure if that one is maintained in bzr and using merge-upstream but an update yes
[12:47] <bcurtiswx> in all honesty, i haven't worked a ton with non ~ubuntu-desktop packages.  Whats the most common way to update when something is just in lp:ubuntu/natty/<packagename>
[12:51] <seb128> bcurtiswx, I would update it without vcs
[12:51] <bcurtiswx> seb128, so grab upstream, copy debian directory from current, attempt build ?
[13:06] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: Firefox 4.0 will be pushed to all Ubuntu releases throught -updates?
[13:06] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, that's not the plan. although, it depends on how much longer 3.6 is supported for
[13:07] <chrisccoulson> in future, we'll probably be rolling out all major updates to supported releases straight away though
[13:07] <chrisccoulson> (considering that ff4.0 will be EOL 3 months after natty releases)
[13:07] <chrisccoulson> so, natty will get 5.0 by the summer ;)
[13:08] <kklimonda> yeah, the new release schedule is interesting ;)
[13:08] <chrisccoulson> yep
[13:08] <chrisccoulson> there will be a firefox-stable PPA for maverick and lucid users though
[13:08] <chrisccoulson> which i'm just preparing now ;)
[13:09] <kklimonda> right, I've already found it - that's why I've been asking.
[13:09] <kklimonda> actually I should have click the link and read the description first
[13:10] <kklimonda> I didn't know that 3.6.x is still going to be supported - in this case it makes sense not to update.
[13:11] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i don't know how long 3.6 will be supported
[13:16] <chrisccoulson> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/Firefox_4.0
[13:16] <chrisccoulson> so, basically, and minute ;)
[14:15] <dobey> mvo: ping. i take it sessioninstaller is the magic bridge between packagekit api, and aptdaemon?
[14:16] <jcastro> rodrigo_: is this gnome-desktop3 the meta package you were referring to before?
[14:23] <mvo> dobey: yep
[14:23] <mvo> dobey: it provides the PK session API on top of aptdaemon
[14:23] <dobey> ok
[14:32] <bcurtiswx>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/583809/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/583810/
[14:32] <bcurtiswx> right one are my build-deps
[14:32] <bcurtiswx> left one if the error, but i have done apt-get build-dep telepathy-glib
[14:32] <bcurtiswx> and verified they are installed
[14:34] <seb128> bcurtiswx, does the current natty version build?
[14:34] <seb128> could be a g-i stack issue, maybe pitti has a clue about it
[14:35] <cyphermox> could it be related to multi-arch in libglib? I've just been bitten by that now
[14:36] <bcurtiswx> seb128, i can try the current one shortly
[14:36] <seb128> could be due to slangasek uploads as well, check with him as well maybe if you can
[14:40] <pitti> "The type name `GLib.TypeInterface' could not be found
[14:40] <pitti> " -> that doesn't ring a bell for me :?
[14:40] <pitti> I mean :(
[14:41] <seb128> let's blame slangasek
[14:43] <bcurtiswx> i've ping'd him in -devel.  will wait for reply
[14:45] <bcurtiswx> well, lets blame me.. it seemed to pass the error point in pbuilder.. so it's probably my computer
[14:45] <seb128> so unping slangasek I guess
[14:46] <bcurtiswx> but there's a crapload of warnings :-\
[14:46] <bcurtiswx> i'll wait for it to finish building before i unping slangasek
[14:48] <cyphermox> bcurtiswx, fwiw, my build of NM worked on my computer but not on a ppa. turned out my system was using a mirror that wasn't quite up to date enough -- the upload was only four hours ago or so
[14:50] <bcurtiswx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/583815/
[14:50] <bcurtiswx> is that what i dread.. a soname update?
[14:52] <seb128> doesn't seem to be one
[14:53] <seb128> bcurtiswx, seems to just be an extra symbol
[14:53] <bcurtiswx> seb128, hmm. OK, thx
[14:53] <seb128> yw
[14:57] <kenvandine> czajkowski, ping
[14:57] <czajkowski> kenvandine: pong
[14:57] <kenvandine> hey, how big was your gwibber db again?
[14:58] <kenvandine> ls -lh ~/.config/gwibber/gwibber.sqlite
[14:58] <czajkowski> 116M
[14:58] <kenvandine> ok
[14:59] <soren> holy crap. That's a lot of tweets.
[14:59] <kenvandine> i am looking for someone with a huge one for testing
[14:59] <kenvandine> soren, someone has a 725M one..
[14:59] <kenvandine> i can't recall who though :)
[14:59] <czajkowski> kenvandine: I was sure it was larger last week
[14:59] <czajkowski> odd
[14:59] <czajkowski> but I did have to delete twitter and re add it
[14:59] <czajkowski> as it was being a royal pita
[15:00] <kenvandine> i have a fix that does some nice cleanup
[15:00] <kenvandine> should make it much smaler
[15:00] <kenvandine> which in turns makes gwibber much more responsive
[15:00] <czajkowski> kenvandine: promise promises :)
[15:01] <chrisccoulson> "i am looking for someone with a huge one for testing" - a huge what? ;)
[15:01] <kenvandine> haha
[15:01] <kenvandine> gwibber db
[15:01] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:03] <czajkowski> ever notice how ther are some dodgey comments associate with gwibber! ye've a lot to answer for kenvandine
[15:03] <kenvandine> indeed
[15:04] <kenvandine> popey, how about you?  ls -lh ~/.config/gwibber/gwibber.sqlite
[15:04] <kenvandine> or anyone listening for that matter, if you use gwibber check the db size please
[15:04] <popey> my desktop isnt powered on right now
[15:04] <kenvandine> ok
[15:05] <kenvandine> i've tested my fix on a 300M db
[15:05] <popey> will check in an hour or so (I am at work, house is empty)
[15:05] <kenvandine> popey, great
[15:05] <kenvandine> thx
[15:05] <popey> i have 8 accounts on my gwibber
[15:05] <popey> so expect it to be quite big
[15:05] <kenvandine> my cleanup should make a huge difference
[15:05] <popey> and it's a pc that started with lucid and has gone to maverick then natty
[15:05] <kenvandine> great
[15:05] <kenvandine> :)
[15:05] <popey> is that an sqlite hoover?
[15:06] <kenvandine> and some purging
[15:06] <popey> yay
[15:06] <popey> delete all of czajkowski's tweets
[15:06] <popey> hardwire that in the script
[15:06] <kenvandine> haha
[15:06] <popey> :)
[15:08]  * czajkowski frowns at popey 
[15:08] <czajkowski> no cake for you mister next week!
[15:09] <rodrigo_> jcastro, no, gnome-desktop3 is the gnome3 version of libgnome-desktop
[15:09] <rodrigo_> jcastro, about the metapackage, it's been waiting on my todo list, so let me do it now
[15:10] <rodrigo_> seb128, ubuntu-desktop is the metapackage for all of gnome in natty, right?
[15:12] <seb128> rodrigo_, ubuntu-desktop defines what is installed by default on ubuntu
[15:12] <seb128> it's built from the seeds
[15:12] <rodrigo_> seb128, so, would it make sense to have a version of it in the gnome3 ppa, so that people can just upgrade that?
[15:13] <seb128> it defines the content of the CD basically
[15:13] <seb128> not only GNOME
[15:13] <rodrigo_> ah
[15:13] <seb128> why do we need that? doing dist-upgrade should just work
[15:13] <seb128> it's basically the same set of binaries
[15:13] <rodrigo_> seb128, it doesn't install gnome-shell
[15:13] <seb128> well tell people to dist-upgrade and install gnome-shell?
[15:14] <rodrigo_> jcastro, ^^
[15:14] <rodrigo_> seb128, it's fine by me, just that I discussed with jcastro about having a metapackage to pull everything from the ppa
[15:15] <rodrigo_> but yes, apt-get dist-upgrade should work
[15:15] <seb128> seems that just sudo apt-get install gnome-shell should bring you a working gnome-shell
[15:15]  * Sweetshark starts heating the room with compile entropy.
[15:15] <Sweetshark> libreoffice 3.3.2 final released!
[15:15] <kenvandine> seb128, i am getting build failures now...
[15:15] <kenvandine> /bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.la: No such file or directory
[15:16] <kenvandine> seb128, have you seen any of those yet?
[15:16] <seb128> Wrong dialog closed
[15:16] <kenvandine> :)
[15:17] <kenvandine> /bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.la: No such file or directory
[15:17] <seb128> kenvandine, grep libglib.la *.la
[15:17] <seb128> kenvandine, grep libglib-2.0.la *.la
[15:17] <kenvandine> this is building on the buildds
[15:17] <seb128> in the standard lib directories
[15:17] <seb128> well it should be similar to your box
[15:17] <seb128> something ships a broken .la
[15:18] <seb128> slangasek fixed most yesterday it seems
[15:18] <seb128> kenvandine, elmo reported an issue on udev's .la though, could be it
[15:19] <seb128> kenvandine, bug #740224
[15:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 740224 in udev "libgudev-1.0.la has broken dependency_libs (hardcoded /usr/lib)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740224
[15:19] <kenvandine> thx, looking
[15:19] <kenvandine> it is breaking both of my gstreamer builds
[15:20] <seb128> ok, so same issue I guess, elmo was building gst as well
[15:21] <kenvandine> just yelp
[15:22] <seb128> well if that's gst that's likely the bug listed before
[15:22] <seb128> you grepped in usr only right?
[15:22] <kenvandine> usr/lib
[15:22] <seb128> right
[15:23] <seb128> that's why you didn't catch that one
[15:23] <seb128> it's in lib
[15:23] <seb128> well anyway wait for slangasek to be there or get pitti to review the patch and upload
[15:23] <kenvandine> ok
[15:23] <kenvandine> thx :)
[15:24] <seb128> yw
[15:32] <rodrigo_> so, how are syncs from debian done? that is, is there a tool or something that does it in the archive, or do we still need to merge with ~ubuntu-desktop branches and upload?
[15:34] <seb128> rodrigo_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
[15:34] <rodrigo_> seb128, thanks!
[15:34] <seb128> rodrigo_, it's basically filing a bug or pinging an archive admin to get a command saying "bring the current debian version to ubuntu" run
[15:34] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, so for gsettings-desktop-schemas, we can just sync, right?
[15:35] <seb128> yes, it's on my list already
[15:35] <rodrigo_> if they need merge, a merge proposal + review + upload, right?
[15:35] <seb128> it just got uploaded to debian earlier today so I was waiting for it to reach the mirrors
[15:35] <seb128> yes
[15:35] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok, I was starting to update to 2.91.92 and got hit by that, so I'll move to another package
[15:35] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok thanks
[15:36] <pitti> mvo: I just checked bug 736393, it's not an annotation, issue, just a simple misnaming of the constant
[15:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 736393 in software-properties "software-properties-gtk crashed with AttributeError in __getattr__(): 'gi.repository.Gdk' object has no attribute 'FUNC_MOVE'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736393
[15:36] <seb128> rodrigo_, dget http://incoming.debian.org/gsettings-desktop-schemas_2.91.92-1.dsc
[15:36] <pitti> mvo: however, this uncovered a larger problem, the mixing of pygtk and pygi - you really should avoid that
[15:36] <seb128> rodrigo_, if you need to build it locally
[15:36] <rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, and can I get it and propose a branch from that?
[15:36] <rodrigo_> seb128, to save you the syncing work?
[15:37] <seb128> rodrigo_, not really, sync don't include a vcs they are direct copies from debian uploads to ubuntu archive
[15:37] <rodrigo_> ah, ok
[15:37] <seb128> rodrigo_, that's just one command to run
[15:37] <seb128> i.e no work
[15:37] <rodrigo_> ok
[15:37] <seb128> but I'm waiting for it to be published since the syncing is done from the archive not from incoming
[15:38] <rodrigo_> ok
[15:38] <mvo> pitti: fair enough, looks like its just a leftover from the porting work
[15:39] <pitti> mvo: argh, sorry, I totally misread that
[15:39] <mvo> pitti: I did a bzr grep over it and it appears this is the only instance of this left, I can fix it now (unless you are quicker :)
[15:39] <pitti> mvo: "software-properties" != "software-center"
[15:39] <pitti> mvo: so, totally my fault, I'll fix it now :)
[15:39] <mvo> no worries
[15:39] <mvo> s-c we do next cycle
[15:39]  * pitti hugs mvo
[15:40] <pitti> mvo: I already wondered, "wow, they ported it already?!" :)
[15:40]  * mvo hugs pitti
[15:40]  * pitti grabs a cup of tea to fully wake up again then
[15:43] <jcastro> kklimonda: hey I noticed upstream shutter has support for static quicklists now
[15:43] <jcastro> kklimonda: in their .desktop files. Can we pull that into natty before freeze? Lack of perl bindings means we can't appindicator it so this app really needs the quicklist
[15:45] <Sweetshark> pitti: I am currently compiling 3.3.2 with launchpad integration. Will you be around to sponsor that to main tomorrow?
[15:46] <pitti> Sweetshark: yes,  I will
[15:46] <pitti> mvo: hm, I don't even know how to reproduce this -- how do I get to this dialog?
[15:46] <pitti> mvo: I played around with "Andere Software" tab, added and removed stuff, etc.
[15:50] <kklimonda> jcastro: Mario (smuxi's dev) had a question about how to translate quicklist entries. I'm also not sure if it makes sense to add 10 quicklist entries - the menu looks bloated. But if those two things are solved, and if those entries are just launching shutter with some arguments, I think we have a chance to get a late FFe.  Could you add your comment to the bug 738710 wrt translations?
[15:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 738710 in shutter "Needs quicklists for Natty" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738710
[15:50] <jcastro> kklimonda: just saw the bug, didrocks any idea?
[15:50] <jcastro> kklimonda: I don't think he needs so many, just 2 or 3 would be fine
[15:51] <bcurtiswx> seb128, the current natty release fails at the same point as the one i'm trying to package currently. fyi
[15:52] <seb128> bcurtiswx, ok, makes sense
[15:52] <mvo> pitti: give it a sources.list argument, like
[15:52] <seb128> jcastro, kklimonda: translations... those are strings in the .desktop so they will get in the translations list
[15:52] <mvo> pitti:
[15:52] <mvo> sudo ./software-properties-gtk /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ubuntu-mozilla-daily-ppa-natty.list
[15:52] <pitti> mvo: ah, thanks; I just tried with --enable-ppa, found that broken (just fixing as well)
[15:53] <seb128> jcastro, kklimonda: but since it's in universe no langpacks so it means it will not be translated for most user or you will have to pick upstream translation updates and distro patch those
[15:53] <pitti> mvo: sudo PYTHONPATH=. ./software-properties-gtk --enable-ppa=pitti/sru-test
[15:53] <pitti> mvo: now works again as well :)
[15:55] <kklimonda> seb128: right, is there an existing universe package I could point the developer to where he can see how it works? I've downloaded gnome-utils but gnome-screenshot.desktop doesn't have translations (I assume they are pulled directly from Rosetta to the language packs).
[15:55] <mvo> pitti:  \o/
[15:56] <seb128> kklimonda, we read translations from the .mo for desktop files as well in ubuntu
[15:56] <kklimonda> seb128: if there isn't any package - is translating quicklist entries the same as translating those from [Desktop Entry] ?
[15:56] <seb128> kklimonda, it's the same as translating any string from the source or .desktop keys
[15:56] <kklimonda> ok
[15:57] <seb128> kklimonda, they will get listed in the pot, show as translatable and be in .mo which is loaded to read translations
[15:57] <seb128> kklimonda, inline translations in the .desktop are used if available though
[15:58] <seb128> well in any case it's not trivial to update translations in universe
[15:59] <kklimonda> yes, I know
[16:00] <didrocks> sorry, was on the phone
[16:01] <didrocks> jcastro: if it's in a .desktop.in, it will be translated
[16:01] <jcastro> didrocks: can you respond on the bug? I'm really not the best guy to explain this.
[16:01] <didrocks> jcastro: yeah, I'll
[16:02] <jcastro> kklimonda: I've asked design on the length of quicklists, maybe there's supposed to be an ideal amount, it feels too long to me.
[16:03] <kklimonda> jcastro: yes, I'd prefer the quicklist to have two options - the two that are available in gnome-screenshot. They seem to be the most generic, and most likely to be used often. But then I'm not taking that many screenshots myself. :)
[16:05] <seb128> the gnome-screenshot ones are buggy though
[16:05] <seb128> need to fix that
[16:08] <pitti> seb128: FYI, bug 725390 is already fixed, marking a dupe
[16:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 725390 in aptdaemon "package python-aptdaemon.gtk3widgets 0.41+bzr586-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/pyshared/aptdaemon/gtk3widgets.py', which is also in package python-aptdaemon-gtk 0.40+bzr541-0ubuntu2" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/725390
[16:09] <seb128> pitti, ok thanks, I didn't spot any replaces or conflicts mention in the changelog so I was not sure
[16:12] <mvo> Sweetshark: hi, what branch is OOo currently build from? I would like to look at the file overwrite problem that the auto-upgrade-tester found and was wondering what branch is the right one
[16:14] <nessita> hello everyone!
[16:14] <rodrigo_> hi nessita
[16:15] <nessita> hi rodrigo_, how are you?
[16:15] <nessita> tedg: ping
[16:15] <seb128> nessita, ola!
[16:16] <nessita> hola seb128! ca va?
[16:16] <rodrigo_> nessita, fine and you?
[16:17] <nessita> pretty good, catching up after 2 weeks holidays
[16:17] <seb128> nessita, ca va bien! et toi ?
[16:17] <seb128> nessita, had nice holidays ?
[16:17] <nessita> très bien
[16:17] <nessita> really good ones :-)
[16:18] <Sweetshark> mvo: Really OOo or LO?
[16:18] <seb128> mterry, howdy
[16:19] <tedg> nessita, Good morning.
[16:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - how difficult would it be for me to spin my own language packs for a PPA (with new firefox translations)
[16:19] <chrisccoulson> ?
[16:19] <rodrigo_> nessita, oh, where have you been?
[16:19] <chrisccoulson> i wouldn't mind being able to have translations for firefox 4 in the firefox-stable PPA
[16:19] <chrisccoulson> but it seems pretty difficult right now
[16:20] <nessita> tedg: hi there! would you know how to set a specific icon for a messaging entry? I would like to use a custom icon for the messaging entry for Ubuntu One, different from the icon being used in the main menu. I"ve tried http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/583843/ but I had no luck
[16:20] <nessita> rodrigo_: I went to PyCon USA :-)
[16:20] <mvo> Sweetshark: well, OOo is still in the archive afaict so I would like to see the bug fixed. but LO may need a similar fix, probably small and easy
[16:20] <rodrigo_> heh, python holidays :)
[16:20] <nessita> tedg: "I had no luck" means that the messaging menu is still showing the plain "ubuntuone" icon instead of "ubuntuone-panel"
[16:21] <nessita> tedg: and I have restarted my session JIC
[16:21] <tedg> nessita, We currently don't support having icons on the static shortcut items.
[16:22] <nessita> tedg: ok. Any workaround you can suggest?
[16:22] <mterry> seb128, h
[16:22] <mterry> i
[16:22] <tedg> nessita, The app icon, is well, just the app icon.  I wouldn't see any issue with pushing a "-panel" on it by default, but it currently doesn't do that.
[16:22] <tedg> nessita, I think it'd be a patch more than a work around.
[16:24] <tedg> nessita, I need to run right now, but we can chat about it when I get back.
[16:24] <seb128> mterry, hey ;-)
[16:24] <nessita> tedg: I'll appreciate that, thanks!
[16:24] <seb128> mterry, I saw you updated glade in the ppa
[16:24] <seb128> mterry, is that a new source or a version update?
[16:25] <Sweetshark> mvo: well, the openoffice.org source package only contains only transitionals, the libreoffice source package contains contents. I just noted they dont seem to be automatically imported to lp. They are vcs'ed on a shared repo with debian at http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git and http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-openoffice/openoffice.org.git .
[16:25] <mvo> is it just me or does the dash crash currently? might be on my noveau driver only I guess
[16:26] <pitti> Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter: meeting reminder in 5 minutes
[16:26] <mterry> seb128, it's a new source too.  The old one (3.8) is 'glade-3', the new one (3.10) is 'glade'
[16:26] <mvo> Sweetshark: aha, interessting. I have a look then. I see "dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/openoffice.org-dev_1%3a3.3.0-1ubuntu1_all.deb (--unpack):
[16:26] <mvo>  trying to overwrite '/usr/share/doc/openoffice.org-dev', which is also in package openoffice.org-dev-doc 1:3.2.1-7ubuntu1.1"
[16:26] <kenvandine> thx
[16:26] <didrocks> hey
[16:26] <cyphermox> pitti, ok
[16:26] <mvo> Sweetshark: in the auto-upgrade tester currently, the error looks a bit odd though
[16:27] <mvo> Sweetshark: I get the git repo now and have a look whats goingon
[16:27] <rodrigo_> pitti, ok
[16:27] <Sweetshark> mvo: thats great! thx.
[16:28] <mterry> seb128, but they install the same binary 'glade'.  The libraries are intended to be parallel-installable, I believe.  It's a confusing situation (inherited from Debian)
[16:28] <pitti> mvo: is bug 507836 on your or tremolux' radar? it's got an awful number of dupes
[16:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 507836 in software-center "[master] software-center crashed with DatabaseModifiedError in _database_gen_postlist_iter()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507836
[16:29] <mvo> pitti: its  on the radar, we just have no good strategie about it currently
[16:29] <mvo> pitti: we will dig into it more
[16:30] <Sweetshark> mvo: 3.3.0 is a bit old though, I havent looked much at the older packages yet. There is symlinking going on in /usr/share/doc though ...
[16:30] <pitti> mvo: thanks; just wanted to ensure it's known
[16:30] <Sweetshark> anyway, me is sitting down for meeting ...
[16:30] <pitti> Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter: meeting time
[16:31] <rodrigo_> o/
[16:31] <mterry> hi
[16:31] <pitti> jasoncwarner: ^ (I know you are double-booked, but FYI)
[16:31]  * kenvandine waves
[16:31] <tremolux> pitti: no worries, it is indeed a blip, a gigantic green one, on our radar  ;)
[16:31] <chrisccoulson> \o
[16:31] <pitti> tremolux: heh
[16:31] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-03-22
[16:31] <pitti> welcome everyone to today's meeting
[16:31] <tremolux> hey everybody  !
[16:32] <pitti> not that much going on on the weekly summary, I guess that means everyone is working on bugs like mad? :)
[16:32] <seb128> hey pitti
[16:32] <pitti> so, let's dive right in
[16:32] <pitti> kenvandine: want to start us off with partner update?
[16:32] <kenvandine> yup
[16:32] <kenvandine> not a ton to report, happy it is mostly bug focus time
[16:32] <kenvandine> DX
[16:33] <kenvandine> Desktop menu layout changes bug 692194
[16:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 692194 in unity-foundations "Desktop menu adjustments for Natty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692194
[16:33] <kenvandine> lo-menubar has reached 0.1.0, aruiz said he thinks it should be stable now
[16:33] <kenvandine> FFE for overlay scrollbars bug 730740
[16:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 730740 in gtk+2.0 "Provide support for dynamically loading the new overlay scrollbar feature" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/730740
[16:33] <kenvandine> and UbuntuOne
[16:33] <kenvandine> bindwood for ff4 and ubuntuone-couch are not uploaded
[16:34] <chrisccoulson> bindwood is ;)
[16:34] <kenvandine> that's all i have
[16:34] <pitti> ^ as for the scrollbar FFE, it hasn't been approved yet, and I don't think the release team will (I'm not that happy about it either); so this needs an explicit sabdfl "override" on the bug
[16:34] <kklimonda> hey, could someone take a look at bug 736236 and see if doesn't miss anything obvious?
[16:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 736236 in mm-common "[MIR] mm-common" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736236
[16:34] <pitti> (if we should push it, that is)
[16:34] <kenvandine> pitti, ok.. dbarth_ ^^
[16:35] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bindwood/1.99.0-0ubuntu1
[16:35] <pitti> Sweetshark, kenvandine: to confirm, lo-menubar should stay in universe for natty? or go into default install?
[16:35] <kenvandine> pitti, that is the plan as i know it
[16:35] <kenvandine> i would love to see it on the CD
[16:35] <Sweetshark> pitti: universe, as far as i am concerned
[16:35] <kenvandine> but i fear it hasn't had enough testing
[16:36] <kenvandine> it does provide a much more consistent experience though
[16:36] <pitti> will look at the desktop menu thing later on, haven't seen that one yet
[16:36] <kenvandine> pitti, seb128 is working on that now
[16:36] <pitti> ah, ok
[16:36] <seb128> pitti, ted just handed it over today
[16:36] <seb128> I'm on it
[16:37] <pitti> so, [TOPIC] unity update -- didrocks, anything new to report?
[16:37] <didrocks> hey
[16:37] <didrocks> All details of last release with the usual milestone: https://launchpad.net/unity/3.0/3.6.6
[16:38] <didrocks> As you can see, we got a lot bug fixes and enhancement:
[16:38] <didrocks>  - drag and drop from the dash
[16:38] <didrocks>  - better applications matching with kde apps
[16:38] <didrocks>  - software center integration
[16:38] <didrocks>  - better "search" title in places
[16:38]  * pitti loves the length of the weekly bug list in the changelogs
[16:38] <didrocks>  - some default keybindings and compiz refinement
[16:38] <didrocks> For next week: release tomorrow or Thursday. Bug fixes mainly (with some rewrite) and multimonitor better support.
[16:38] <didrocks> We need a multitouch FFe: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/737601
[16:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 737601 in unity "Restore MT support in Unity" [Medium,In progress]
[16:38] <didrocks> to get to the same state than what we had in maverick
[16:38] <pitti> didrocks: ^ will look after meeting
[16:38] <didrocks> pitti: if you can have a look :)
[16:39] <didrocks> thanks!
[16:39] <pitti> (if it's a regression, should be easy)
[16:39] <didrocks> that's basically it :)
[16:39] <didrocks> new compiz upload today
[16:39] <pitti> didrocks: do you know the latest word wrt. a11y?
[16:39] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, do you know if bug 718926 is on anyones radar? that's pretty bad, and i don't want it to get forgotten about
[16:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 718926 in bamf "Some apps don't integrate to appmenu after having their windows closed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/718926
[16:39] <didrocks> with ABI break
[16:39] <didrocks> pitti: launcher is fully a11y. Still need some investigation this week for places though
[16:40] <charlie-tca> It is?
[16:40] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: not that I know of. I'll have a look
[16:40] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[16:40] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure it's a bamf issue tbh
[16:40] <charlie-tca> When did we get orca working with the launcher?
[16:40] <pitti> didrocks: in our last discussion with TheMuso we ended up with starting classic gnome for the a11y profile
[16:40] <pitti> didrocks: but that was already a week ago
[16:40] <didrocks> charlie-tca: orca should work on the launcher
[16:40] <charlie-tca> not today, it don't
[16:40] <didrocks> and TheMuso confirmed this
[16:41] <rodrigo_> but not on the dash/places
[16:41] <pitti> there's still a handful of WIs left for a11y, anyway
[16:41] <didrocks> charlie-tca: you should raise this issue with rodrigo_ and API on #ayatana then
[16:41] <charlie-tca> okay
[16:42] <pitti> I think it'd be fine to have the "classic on a11y" changes after beta-1, so we can still give it some two weeks to mature
[16:42] <pitti> but my feeling is that we should rather do that than deliver something half-done
[16:42] <pitti> visual bling isn't half as important for blind people than reliability
[16:42] <didrocks> pitti: we discussed with TheMuso
[16:43] <pitti> "visual" -> "workflow", as "fast searching in dash", etc.)
[16:43] <didrocks> and jasoncwarner and discussed that we would take the decision just after beta
[16:43] <pitti> didrocks: ok, sounds like a plan
[16:43] <pitti> seems we are all in agreement then
[16:44] <pitti> tremolux: do you have something about software-center? (wiki section is empty)
[16:44] <tremolux> pitti: please refresh, I got it in just before the meeting
[16:44] <pitti> oh, a page reload magically made the report appear :)
[16:44] <tremolux> haha! yeah
[16:44] <Pendulum> I'd just like to point out that not all a11y is for visual impairment
[16:45] <pitti> Pendulum: yes, of course
[16:45] <tremolux> I can paste a summary
[16:45] <tremolux> * Unity launcher integration FFe was granted; Unity and Unity 3D implementations complete and released (many thanks didrocks and nerochiaro!!!)
[16:45] <tremolux> * With all parts in place now, we've enabled the Software Center side of launcher integration with today's release (3.1.24)
[16:45] <tremolux> * In the end, we decided on a somewhat scaled back version of the full design, but what we have should be quite useful for Natty and we'll make it cooler in Oneiric
[16:45] <tremolux> * Lots of great bug fixes and UI improvements in last week's release 3.1.23.1 and even more in today's 3.1.24
[16:45] <tremolux> * Particular focus on final UI cleanup items before freeze this week, plus revisit startup time (already dramatically improved over maverick, but see if we can get more)
[16:45] <pitti> Pendulum: we were really talking about "some a11y profiles", mainly about screen readers, etc.
[16:45] <tremolux> yow, that's a pretty huge summary, sorry  :P
[16:45] <pitti> tremolux: seems just fine to me
[16:45] <pitti> thanks
[16:46] <tremolux> cool, thank you
[16:46] <pitti> tremolux: is there still work needed for startup speed, or AWTY and can focus on bugs fully?
[16:46] <tremolux> pitti: we can talk about it, we are well under the goal in the charts
[16:46] <pitti> the WI is still open for that
[16:47] <tremolux> right
[16:47] <pitti> tremolux: i. e. "not met the goal", or "well under the time treshold"?
[16:47] <tremolux> the reason is that, when starting up fresh off a reboot, the time is over 5 seconds on the Dell Mini reference still
[16:47] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/software-center/mini10-startup/startup-times.png looks awesome
[16:48] <tremolux> the target is under 5 seconds on the reference
[16:48] <pitti> ah, so all of that is hot cache?
[16:48] <tremolux> which is a slow machine
[16:48] <tremolux> yeah, but even with those cold-cache approaches in the bug, we meet the goal
[16:48] <tremolux> we only don't meet it in a fresh reboot, so that cold-cache techniques seem not fully sufficient
[16:49] <pitti> tremolux: to me it feels like the focus should be on bug fixing now, and speed improvements should be an offside project now
[16:49] <tremolux> pitti: agreed
[16:49] <pitti> anyway, that's an amazing improvement!
[16:49] <tremolux> pitti: I'll talk with mvo, it's really been much improved
[16:49] <pitti> thanks
[16:49] <tremolux> you can feel the difference, it's dramatic
[16:49] <tremolux> pitti: thanks  :)
[16:49] <pitti> Riddell: anything noteworthy on the Kubuntu front?
[16:50] <Riddell>  * CDs in decent shape for beta, or will be once oversizing problem is fixed
[16:50] <Riddell>  * switching Qt to opengles on ARM means fixes needed to packages which use opengl, mobile team to fix.  I've also been helping linary folks package kwin for opengles
[16:50] <Riddell>  * Qt accessibility bridge in ppa:jr if anyone wants to test
[16:50] <Riddell>  * http://goo.gl/23eui 9 bugs milestoned for beta http://goo.gl/23eui
[16:50] <Riddell> I've also been learning how to package RPMs to get usb-creator into suse
[16:51] <seb128> changing distro? ;-)
[16:51] <Riddell> only to make it possible for suse users to try out ubuntu :)
[16:52] <seb128> ;-)
[16:52] <pitti> Riddell: oversizing problem> is that due to eglibc-source and friends, from today?
[16:52] <Riddell> pitti: yes
[16:52] <pitti> rpms> heh, nice
[16:52] <pitti> Riddell: ah, that shoudl hopefully be fixed in tomorrow's dailies
[16:53] <pitti> Riddell: how hard was it to package, OOI?
[16:53] <Riddell> pitti: just as fiddly as .deb packages :)
[16:53] <pitti> opengles> does that mean all packages which currently use OpenGL on arm need to be changed to GLES as well? or are they binary compatible in some way?
[16:54] <Riddell> pitti: all qt packages do yes, they're not binary or source compatible
[16:54] <Riddell> so it's potentially quite problematic
[16:55] <Riddell> talking of problematic we had to work out how to get cmake support multiarch this week, I think we have a reasonable way to do it now for natty but debian are saying it's not their preferred solution
[16:55] <pitti> Riddell: I meant the libgl1-mesa-glx rdepends
[16:55] <pitti> Riddell: AFAIUI that was mostly a quick hack to unbreak it for now, righht?
[16:55] <pitti> to add the extra search paths to cmake
[16:56] <Riddell> pitti: qt bits depending on libgl1-mesa-glx do need to be changed to openGLES
[16:56] <pitti> Riddell: ah, only qt, not all other ~ 400 packages?
[16:57] <pitti> that sounds a bit less scary then
[16:57] <Riddell> right, it's due to qt being built with gles on arm now
[16:57] <pitti> Riddell: so that's mainly in mobile team's hands, right?
[16:57] <Riddell> yes
[16:57] <pitti> ok, good
[16:57] <pitti> thank you
[16:57] <pitti> X.org will be done in the eastern edition
[16:58] <Riddell> the cmake change is quite a successful quick hack, I don't think it's worth us spending more time on it but I'll be in contact with debian and upstream incase they think it is
[16:58] <pitti> I agree; the multiarch stuff is slowly landing in debian, so eventually they'll get to it as well, but they can take some more time to fix it properly
[16:59] <pitti> I originally planned to discuss current RC bugs and WIs in the meeting, but I think I'll rather go round and discuss with people individually
[16:59] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html looks a bit dire
[16:59] <pitti> so if everyone coudl stay around for a little more, that'd be appreciated
[16:59] <pitti> but I'd like to keep the official meeting short
[17:00] <seb128> hum, time to run ? ;-)
[17:00] <pitti> anything else which we should discuss?
[17:00] <pitti> /msg seb128 let's start with you; stop slurping cocktails and fix gtk bugz!!
[17:00] <Sweetshark> kenvandine, pitti: just to clarify: lo-menubar stays in universe for natty, but will be upstreamed to LO for 3.4 (hopefully, if resources allow) so it will be in main then and we can decide on if we want to dis/enable it (via configuration) still.
[17:00] <pitti> oops :)
[17:00] <Sweetshark> pitti: I am a concerned about bug 731556 / freedesktop bug 33915 because it seems to be Ubuntu only.
[17:00] <kenvandine> Sweetshark, yeaj
[17:01] <pitti> Sweetshark: that's the spirit! (regarding some heated blogosphere discussions..)
[17:01] <Sweetshark> pitti: *hrhr*
[17:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 731556 in df-libreoffice "LibreOffice erases user settings, and block the use of interface styles..." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/731556
[17:01] <ubot2> Sweetshark: Error: Could not parse XML returned by Freedesktop: The read operation timed out (http://bugzilla.freedesktop.org/xml.cgi?id=33915)
[17:01] <kenvandine> Sweetshark, however i think for next cycle, until it lands in LO we should include it as a separate package
[17:01] <pitti> Sweetshark: hm, that report is a bit vague about reproduction and effect?
[17:01] <kenvandine> just in case that gets dropped
[17:01] <kenvandine> and for testing
[17:03] <Sweetshark> pitti: well, thats the fun of it. its one of those issues with possibly Java, Quickstarter, Hibernate involved. But if it is indeed Ubuntu-only and eats the user config thats indeed a serious issue.
[17:03] <pitti> ok, let's end the official part then, thanks everyone!
[17:04] <pitti> Sweetshark: yes, agreed -- it would just be nice to get a reproducer for it first
[17:10] <pitti> chrisccoulson: for bug 727372 it seems that there's a proposed patch upstream which needs review? we are blocked on that?
[17:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 727372 in firefox "FF 4 requires both .desktop and gconf entries for url handlers" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727372
[17:11] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah
[17:11] <chrisccoulson> tbh, i could just upload it. it's only a small patch
[17:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: is there a risk that upstream would do it differnently, and then we'd have a migration problem?
[17:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - no, i think the patch is right
[17:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: (although it sounds to me as if it should just drop the gconf bits?)
[17:12] <chrisccoulson> although, my opinion is obviously biased, seeing as i wrote it ;)
[17:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, thanks
[17:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: is there just no response upstream, or was there some pushback?
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> it's blocked on reviews on another bug
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> (and we already have all of the patches from that bug anyway)
[17:13] <pitti> ah
[17:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so perhaps we shuold actually go ahead with that, and then tell upstream about our experience with it in the field?
[17:14] <pitti> we'll have a lot of people upgrading to beta and testing this
[17:14] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can do that
[17:14] <chrisccoulson> when is the freeze?
[17:14] <pitti> chrisccoulson: bug 663294 is pretty much a "nice to have" at this point, right?
[17:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 663294 in gcc-4.5 "Firefox built with gcc-4.5 is a non-starter on i386 with -pie" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663294
[17:14] <pitti> chrisccoulson: next Monday
[17:14] <pitti> (roughly)
[17:14] <chrisccoulson> i've got some other bits to get it in too, and i'd like to avoid doing an upload for a single change
[17:15] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, that sounds fine
[17:15] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i've not had time to reinvestigate the gcc issue yet
[17:15] <pitti> chrisccoulson: this is mostly about me getting an updated view about the release blockers at this point
[17:15] <pitti> chrisccoulson: the gcc one seems like low-priority, don't worry
[17:15]  * tremolux will brb
[17:15] <chrisccoulson> i'm fully focused on trying to get the webkit-enabled swt-gtk working atm
[17:15] <chrisccoulson> we really need to get xulrunner out of main
[17:16] <micahg> pitti: PIE is a security regression
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> especially seeing as firefox 4 is only going to be supported for 16 weeks
[17:16] <pitti> micahg: ah, we had PIE in maverick on 3.6?
[17:16]  * micahg agrees with chrisccoulson on xulrunner
[17:16] <pitti> chrisccoulson: *nod*; did you have any luck with it? (webkitified swt-gtk)
[17:16] <micahg> pitti: yes
[17:17] <pitti> micahg: ah, it sounded like a major new thing
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it builds, but i'm getting an issue where pointers are getting truncated between native interfaces, and i can't figure out what's going wrong
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> in fact, it's going wrong independently of the JVM
[17:17] <pitti> micahg: that bug also has a gcc task, so I wonder if that's a gcc regression or a firefox one
[17:17] <chrisccoulson> and i haven't worked out what's going on at the assembler level yet
[17:17] <micahg> pitti: I thought chrisccoulson narrowed the PIE issue to be a gcc regression
[17:17] <pitti> micahg: so if that's a security concern, it might be less evil to build firefox with gcc-4.4 for the time being? or would that cause trouble with arm?
[17:18] <micahg> s/regression/issue
[17:19] <micahg> pitti: idk, I'll discuss that with the team as a possible option
[17:19] <pitti> micahg: cheers
[17:19] <pitti> micahg: it coudl also use 4.4 on i386 only, of cousre
[17:20] <micahg> pitti: that might cause other issues :)
[17:20] <pitti> chrisccoulson: bug 709216 sounds similar to the previous one -- blocked on upstream patch review? or more blockers here?
[17:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 709216 in thunderbird "clicking on a link dont open the page " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709216
[17:20] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i think there's 2 ways to fix that
[17:20] <pitti> micahg: for sure; just checking options ;)
[17:21] <chrisccoulson> the first one is to backport all of the GIO support from thunderbird-3.3 + some additional patches
[17:21] <chrisccoulson> or the other one is to actually make gnomevfs understand the %u placeholder
[17:21] <chrisccoulson> i didn't realise that our default-applications capplet is still updating the gconf keys
[17:22] <chrisccoulson> but it updates them with broken values from the Exec= line in the desktop file
[17:22] <micahg> chrisccoulson: pitti keep in mind, we might be jumping to TB 3.3 a month or 2 after release
[17:22] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ugh, gnomevfs?
[17:22] <chrisccoulson> (broken == not understood by applications that are still using gnomevfs)
[17:22] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, tbird and ffox still use it, although we disabled it for ffox in ubuntu
[17:22] <pitti> micahg: yeah, I thought it would be a similar drill to firefox?
[17:22] <chrisccoulson> but mozilla.org builds are still using it, and those are totally broken now
[17:23] <micahg> pitti: I think some of that might be discussed today at the thunderbird meeting, but not sure
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> we might be jumping to firefox 5 a couple of months after release ;)
[17:24] <chrisccoulson> pitti - did you see the new release schedule?
[17:24] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yeah, it's crazy
[17:24] <chrisccoulson> do i need to notify the TB of the changes? (the changes being that we're going to be rolling out firefox updates like we do with chromium)
[17:24] <pitti> chrisccoulson: well, we already have a standing exception for ffox, so it should be okay
[17:25] <chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
[17:25] <chrisccoulson> the updates will obviously be less interesting than the 3.6=>4.0 update
[17:25] <pitti> chrisccoulson: what would you prefer about the gvfs bug? going to tbird 3.3?
[17:25] <chrisccoulson> we can't go to tbird3.3 just yet, as it's only at alpha 3
[17:25] <pitti> ah, ok
[17:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: adding gnomevfs support for %u might not be that hard, do you want some help with that?
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> i'll talk to upstream about what to do. they're quite concerned that this is pretty broken for new distro's (and it's likely to stay broken for tbird 3.3 too, as my GIO patches didn't make the mozilla-2.0 branch in time)
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i can take a look at gnomevfs
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> it should be a trivial change
[17:27] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I can help you with that if you want
[17:27] <chrisccoulson> easier than backporting several thousand lines of code for tbird ;)
[17:27] <pitti> yes, definitively :)
[17:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson, micahg: and finally, there's the 8 items on http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html#mozillateam
[17:31] <pitti> so I understand chrisccoulson is working on swt-gtk
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> pitti - ok, i think i've found the right part of gnome-vfs to touch
[17:32] <pitti> chrisccoulson, micahg: are you much concerned about the universe stuff there?
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> i'm not concerned about universe stuff atm
[17:32] <pitti> e. g. libgtk2-mozembed-perl only has one rdepends (gmusicbrowser) which we probalby could just remove from the archive?
[17:32] <micahg> pitti: I need to get webkit 1.2.7 uploaded, then I can look at eclipse which is one of the major things that we'd prefer not to drop
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i don't mind. i wasn't planning to spend much time on universe stuff once xulrunner is dropped from main anyway
[17:32] <micahg> pitti: that's the new default music player in xubuntu
[17:32] <pitti> micahg: right; was just going to say that eclipse is the only one I'd be concerned about
[17:33] <pitti> the rest looks ignorable
[17:33] <chrisccoulson> (ie, it will be super-low priority for me at that point) :)
[17:33]  * micahg doesn't know how he missed the xul rdepend, would've tried to shoot that down...
[17:33] <pitti> eww
[17:33] <pitti> what's wrong with rb?
[17:34] <pitti> chrisccoulson, micahg: ok, thanks much for the heads-up, and sorry for all my questions
[17:35]  * pitti feels a bit better about the next release meeting then
[17:35] <micahg> pitti: it's just a suggests, so it can go :)
[17:35] <pitti> micahg: oh, indeed
[17:35] <micahg> pitti: well exaile was the default last cycle
[17:36] <micahg> pitti: rb is too heavy for xubuntu
[17:36] <pitti> micahg: so we shoudl revisit the list around beta-2, and then see about "ignore" vs. "remove from archive"?
[17:36] <pitti> I'd like to target them to beta-2 then
[17:36] <micahg> pitti: yep, sounds good, can you edit the blueprint?
[17:36] <pitti> yup
[17:37] <pitti> micahg: can I hand you the eclipse one then, as you seem to work on it?
[17:38] <micahg> pitti: I suppose, the only problem is it shows up on the s, then I can look at some 'll probably want to jump to TB3.3 a month ecurity team's WI list
[17:38]  * micahg shakes fist at xchat
[17:38] <pitti> I think I deciphered it :)
[17:39] <pitti> chrisccoulson: "Automate upstream translation imports for Firefox updates into Launchpad" -> is that actually still an issue?
[17:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: this sounds like something we coudl easily postpone, too
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> pitti - not at the moment, although i'm going to completely rethink how we do translations for firefox next cycle
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> i think we should kill po2xpi
[17:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok; so let's drop that one and rethink it properly at UDS?
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> firefox has a perfectly good build system for building xpi's
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> and we should just pass the source code to/from launchpad if we want to use that
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> and then have firefox build the xpi's using the output from launchpad (or something like that)
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> we'll see ;)
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> but, yes, that one is for UDS
[17:41] <Sweetshark> pitti: do you need me around still? Otherwise I might go out an jog a few rounds before it is too dark ...
[17:42] <pitti> micahg: libjavascript-perl doesn't even have binaries in the archive.. can I just nuke this?
[17:42] <pitti> Sweetshark: that's fine, enjoy!
[17:42] <pitti> chrisccoulson: that indeed sounds like a better approach
[17:42] <micahg> pitti: ugh, I've been meaning to fix that for 3 cycles
[17:44] <micahg> pitti: go ahead, we can always upload later/backport if we fix it
[17:44] <pitti> micahg: libjdic-java is fun as well -- it build-deps on xulrunner, but doesn't binary-depend
[17:44] <pitti> micahg: *nod*, it'll come back in oneiric with autosyncs; I won't blacklist it for now
[17:46] <micahg> pitti: yes, I've tried to port that twice now, I'll leave that until beta 2
[17:47] <pitti> micahg: or drop -- just one rdepends (paros)
[17:47] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-firefox-4 updated
[17:47] <micahg> pitti: that one I've promised to do, so I think I was close this last time, I'd say leave it until beta 2, if not done, we can drop
[17:48] <pitti> *nod*
[17:49] <pitti> rodrigo_: sorry, I think I already asked you about gnome bug 644560, but forgot: did you just forget to attach the patch there?
[17:49] <ubot2> Gnome bug 644560 in Gal "Can't set an account password" [Normal,Needinfo] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=644560
[17:49] <pitti> robbiew: (for bug 717971)
[17:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 717971 in evolution "Can't provide password for account capplet although it asks me to" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717971
[17:50] <robbiew> huh...what?
[17:50] <pitti> robbiew: sorry, tab fail
[17:50] <pitti> rodrigo_: ^
[17:50] <robbiew> whew!
[17:51] <pitti> tremolux: as beta-1 comes close fast, is bug 723911 blocked by anything, or just a manpower issue? how critical is it for b1?
[17:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 723911 in software-center "deauthorize does not remove sources.list" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723911
[17:51] <tremolux> pitti: I don't think it's critical for b1 actually, so I bumped the target there
[17:52] <tremolux> it's not a manpower issue, rather it's not a UI issue and so can wait for after b1 if needed
[17:52] <pitti> ah, ok
[17:52] <pitti> thanks
[17:52] <tremolux> pitti: the main part of the fix is actually in aptdaemon, and should not be too difficult
[17:53] <pitti> chrisccoulson: sorry, one last thing: I'm afraid I don't really understand bug 709125 at all; it's targetted to b1 as well
[17:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 709125 in apturlredirector "User agent doesn't include Ubuntu in it so apt.ubuntu.com doesn't work" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709125
[17:53] <tremolux> pitti: want to hit any remaining fixes with UI impact this week first  ;)
[17:53] <pitti> tremolux: yes, that makes sense; thanks for updating the milestone
[17:53] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the issue is that there is no way to add the vendor name to the user agent string now
[17:53] <chrisccoulson> (and apt.ubuntu.com relies on that)
[17:53] <pitti> ah
[17:53] <tremolux> welcome, thanks pitti
[17:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: our previous patch for that doesn't work any more then?
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> pitti - in any case, i'm glad it's gone, because it caused no end of problems with websites mis-detecting our browser
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> pitti - we never used to carry a patch, but we could configure the vendor name in a preference
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> and that would appear in the UA string
[17:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, that's the reason why http://apt.ubuntu.com/ is empty?
[17:56] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that's the reason
[17:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so it seems to me the firefox part is pretty much "wontfix", and instead apt.u.c. should just drop the agent filter?
[17:56] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that would be 1 way to do it
[17:57] <chrisccoulson> this describes the UA changes btw - http://blog.mozilla.com/dwitte/2010/08/24/user-agent-string-changes-coming-in-firefox-4/
[17:57] <seb128> mterry, sorry I noticed your reply only after the start of the meeting, I think we should make the new glade installable next to glade2
[17:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I don't really understand why they do the filtering in the first place -- on other distros/windows, apturl won't exist, so it won't do them any harm?
[17:57] <seb128> mterry, just mentioned it in case you are interested, I've that on my list of things to work on when I get some free time which didn't happen yet
[17:57] <tremolux> pitti: btw, if there's time and you have a chance, I'd like to quickly discuss the two remaining work items in the Software Center enhancements spec
[17:58] <seb128> mterry, it's likely that people will want to work on gtk3 code while they still need to maintain gtk2 things
[17:58] <pitti> tremolux: please
[17:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, we could probably just drop the check then
[17:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: is that site our's actually?
[17:58] <mterry> seb128, yeah, agreed. and i believe that is upstream glade's intention too
[17:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: i. e. should I file an RT?
[17:58] <chrisccoulson> in any case, it's definitely wontfix in firefox, although there's a possible fix i could add to ubufox
[17:58] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure who maintains that website
[17:58] <seb128> mterry, when I checked it was mainly conflicting on things like documentation
[17:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, I'll check; thanks for the heads-up!
[17:58] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[17:59] <seb128> mterry, we can probably easily rename those
[17:59] <rodrigo_> pitti, no, it's just that I'm still working on the patch, sorry
[17:59] <tremolux> pitti: ok, so one is the startup time bug, the other is a backend fix actually, so I think the spec could reasonable be re-milestoned to 11.01 from B1
[17:59]  * rodrigo_ adds a comment to the bug
[17:59] <chrisccoulson> pitti - what mozilla recommended was adding an extra header to packets sent to apt.ubuntu.com (using ubufox), and updating the server to detect the new header
[17:59] <chrisccoulson> but i'm not sure i've got time to do that
[18:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: right
[18:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so let's not worry about that for now
[18:00] <mterry> seb128, for documentation, yes, but it also looks like now they both produce the binary pacjkage 'galde'
[18:00] <tremolux> pitti: tho, I expect we may close out the startup time bug before B1, just need to talk it through with mvo
[18:00] <mterry> glade even
[18:00] <pitti> rodrigo_: ah, ok; the comment said "attaching a patch", so I wondered; thanks!
[18:00] <rodrigo_> pitti, reload the bug page now :-)
[18:01] <pitti> rodrigo_: ah, heh :)
[18:01] <seb128> mterry, well binaries are easy to rename ;-)
[18:01] <rodrigo_> pitti, sorry for not doing it before, you're not the 1st one to ask if I had forgotten the patch :)
[18:01] <seb128> mterry, I was thinking calling the new one glade-gtl
[18:01] <seb128> glade-gtk3
[18:01] <mterry> heh, was trying to imagine what gtl stood for
[18:01] <tremolux> pitti: (I meant retargeted to *11.04* of course .. fatfingered)
[18:01] <seb128> I should perhaps raise it again on #debian-gnome
[18:02] <mterry> yeah
[18:02] <seb128> mterry, it stood for me hitting l instead of k and then "enter" instead of 3 on the numpad ;-)
[18:02] <seb128> I need to realign my hands ;-)
[18:03] <pitti> tremolux: we should just retarget that one WI to beta-2 then IMHO
[18:03] <pitti> tremolux: although this WI sounds like a bigger change which is more feature-like than bug fix? or does it sound more harmful than it is really?
[18:04] <pitti> tremolux: for the startup time bug, my recommendation is to close the natty task as "good enough", and add an oneiric task for possible further optimization
[18:04] <tremolux> pitti: it needs to be looked it closely, if it's risky at all, we will need to defer
[18:06] <pitti> tremolux: do you think you could discuss it with mvo this week, so that we have a definitive decision for b1?
[18:06] <tremolux> pitti: agreed, your recommendations sound good to me; now, do I need to retarget the spec itself from b1, when adding the updated targets to the WI entries?
[18:06] <tremolux> pitti: yes, I'll discuss it either today or first thing tomorrow
[18:06] <pitti> tremolux: no, just add a new block "work items (ubuntu-11.04-beta-2):"
[18:06] <pitti> tremolux: and move that one there then
[18:07] <tremolux> pitti: ok, gotcha
[18:07] <tremolux> pitti: (I just didn't know if that overrode the spec target)
[18:07] <pitti> chrisccoulson: "Figure out how to provide system-wide settings in /etc in the new world" - I think we already discussed that, is that still a requirement from OEM, or can we drop taht?
[18:07] <tremolux> thx pitti
[18:08] <pitti> tremolux: thanks!
[18:08] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I think back then you said that it might also be easy for them to supply settings in an extension?
[18:10] <pitti> ronoc: hey, how are you?
[18:14] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i think it's a requirement from OEM. in any case, i already know how i'm going to do that, so i guess that one is "DONE"
[18:14] <chrisccoulson> i'll probably ship the old /etc/firefox/pref/firefox.js in ubufox, just for compatibility
[18:14] <chrisccoulson> so i just need to do some conffile magic to move it between packages
[18:14] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, an extension is probably the right way. but i think we can provide a system-wide preference file in ubufox too
[18:15] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so we should keep the WI? (please don't if it's a lot of effort for little benefit)
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> pitti - we can keep it for now, i don't think it's much work
[18:16] <dobey> is there any way to install 11.04 from a 10.10 image? like over the magical internets or something?
[18:16] <pitti> dobey: update-manager -d ?
[18:18] <dobey> pitti: that will try to update the in-memory instance won't it?
[18:19] <pitti> dobey: well, it'll upgrade your 10.10 installation to natty, yes
[18:19] <dobey> pitti: i was hoping there was some way to tell the installer to install the current development version
[18:20] <dobey> i don't have an installation yet. i want to install 11.04 on my new laptop. but i was hoping i wouldn't have to download a new image to do a totally clean install of 11.04
[18:20] <pitti> dobey: no, that doesn't work; you'd need ot upgrade the live image to natty, which will quickly run out of RAM
[18:21] <dobey> :(
[18:25] <pitti> dobey: but even if the installer had that magic option, it would need to download the entire natty CD anyway, so you can just as well download it directly
[18:27] <dobey> pitti: well it would have to download the packages to install them, but it wouldn't have to download the image, stick it on a usb stick, reboot, start the installer, and then install it :)
[18:28] <dobey> i'm not worried about the bandwidth, i have 50Mbit download speed. i was just hoping to avoid the time to do all that extra work
[18:29] <pitti> dobey: sorry, it's not that magic yet :/
[18:29] <pitti> aufs-over-http doesn't sound fun, though
[18:30] <Sweetshark> for building libreoffice I am missing a symlink from /usr/lib/libgcj_bc.so.1 which exists at debian. is that a bug or a feature? reading the package description, it sounds like a bug ...
[18:30] <pitti> kenvandine, seb128: in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-application-selection, do you have a clue what "[ubuntu-cli-mono-dev] Clean up deps on appindicator extensions so that we use the pure sound menu for 11.04" means?
[18:30] <kenvandine> no i don't
[18:30] <seb128> dunno either
[18:30] <pitti> Sweetshark: symlink to what?
[18:31] <seb128> well new registration thing use only dbus and mpris not libindicate
[18:31] <seb128> so it was maybe to drop the libindicate use
[18:31] <seb128> but I didn't work on that nor checked what was going on
[18:31] <kenvandine> oh, i bet that was it
[18:31] <dobey> pitti: awfs?
[18:32] <Sweetshark> to libgcj.so.10 which links to so.10.0.0
[18:32] <Sweetshark> ^- pitti
[18:32] <dobey> pitti: pretty much every linux distro that was out there back in the day used to have a "network install" option. i don't think there needs to be any special filesystem magic to do a network install
[18:32] <dobey> anyway
[18:33]  * dobey downloads the image
[18:33] <pitti> Sweetshark: /usr/lib/libgcj_bc.so.1 -> libgcj.so.10 ? that sounds wrong
[18:33] <pitti> dobey: we do have a netinstlal
[18:33] <pitti> dobey: but that's different than using the live CD
[18:34] <dobey> pitti: you mean it's a different image i have to download, shove on a usb stick, and boot from?
[18:34] <chrisccoulson> pitti - w00t, bug 709216 fixed \o/
[18:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 709216 in thunderbird "clicking on a link dont open the page " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709216
[18:35] <pitti> dobey: it's a little more complicated, I'm afraid; https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/Netboot
[18:35] <Sweetshark> pitti: not when reading this: http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/libgcj-bc
[18:35] <pitti> chrisccoulson: rockin'! gnome-vfs?
[18:35] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah :)
[18:35] <dobey> pitti: that's not net install. that's boot a live image of a tftp server :)
[18:35] <pitti> Sweetshark: ah, that might be a deliberate evil hack then
[18:35] <pitti> Sweetshark: but I'm afraid I don't know about it at all; I suggest talking to doko about that one
[18:36] <Sweetshark> pitti: k
[18:36] <pitti> dobey: no, that's debian-installer (alternate like), no live system
[18:37] <dobey> pitti: well either way, that wiki page is about booting off of a disk image over ethernet via tftp
[18:37] <seb128> who is using gnome-vfs?!
[18:37] <pitti> seb128: tbird/ffox
[18:37] <seb128> wth?
[18:38] <dobey> pitti: i think maybe you meant https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/NetbootInstallFromInternet instead :)
[18:38] <dobey> anyway, like i said bandwidth is not an issue for me
[18:41] <dobey> the stupid flaps on this laptop to cover up the usb ports and the headphone jack, on the other hand, make me want to punch the designer
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> pitti / seb128, well, only tbird atm
[18:44] <chrisccoulson> (although, there's still a lot of stuff in universe too)
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> mterry, so, your tbird issue should be "fixed" now ;)
[18:54] <mterry> chrisccoulson, yaaaay!
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> hopefully i haven't broken anything else ;)
[18:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: nobody will notice a broken gnomevfs at this point :)
[18:59] <didrocks> (but people notice broken gio integration in unity ;))
[19:05] <seb128> kenvandine, you might be interested to backport that one, http://git.gnome.org/browse/xchat-gnome/commit/?id=be95811135169b16d108448117c71dbe7386f254
[19:09] <Amaranth> didrocks: btw, just setting up a GLX context and calling glGetString a couple times takes 0.1s on nvidia and 0.2s on fglrx
[19:09] <Amaranth> didrocks: On whatever systems Benoit Jacob was doing his testing on for firefox, anyway
[19:10] <Amaranth> didrocks: So an extra process to do those can be pretty expensive
[19:10] <didrocks> Amaranth: thanks for testing. Help jay to improve the test tool then :)
[19:10] <Amaranth> didrocks: But on mesa it's 0.04s so I say screw the blobs :P
[19:11] <didrocks> heh :)
[19:16] <chrisccoulson> pitti, did you see my earlier question about rolling my own language packs?
[19:16] <pitti> chrisccoulson: sorry, must have missed it
[19:17]  * pitti can't find it in scrollback
[19:18] <popey> kenvandine: -rw-r--r-- 1 alan alan 472M 2011-03-22 19:18 /home/alan/.config/gwibber/gwibber.sqlite
[19:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: (back in a bit, dinner)
[19:20] <chrisccoulson> pitti - sure, no problem
[19:23] <dobey> hrmm
[19:23] <dobey> having uninstalled applications show up in the applications place when there is no network, is annoying :-/
[19:41] <bcurtiswx> back
[19:50] <pitti> chrisccoulson: re -- what was your question?
[19:51] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti
[19:51] <chrisccoulson> i was wondering how difficult it would be to roll my own language packs for lucid and maverick with the firefox 4 translations in, for the firefox-stable PPA?
[19:51] <chrisccoulson> we're currently recommending that as a sort-of semi-official way of getting firefox 4, but there are no translations for it ;)
[19:52] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, that would mean to duplicate all the po files as well
[19:52] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it's not difficult in the operational sense, but of course needs quite a lot of disk space and buildd power
[19:52] <pitti> chrisccoulson: aren't we going to update ffox in lucid/maverick to 4 anyway?
[19:53] <chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, ok. people can grab the xpi's themselves, but i wouldn't mind figuring out a better way
[19:53] <chrisccoulson> there aren't any plans to update lucid/maverick just yet
[19:53] <chrisccoulson> not whilst 3.6 is still supported
[19:53] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I thought 3.6 would be discontinued now that 4 is released?
[19:54] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure when that's going to happen tbh
[19:55] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so TBH I think it would be easier to just bundle all XPIs in the PPA package
[19:55] <pitti> chrisccoulson: or build a firefox-l10n package with them and add a dependency
[19:56] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the only issue is where i install them, as they won't be co-installable with the xpi's in the language packs
[19:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: but if you want, we can build PPA langpacks for them -- it'd just take quite some effort, including QA
[19:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, same ID?
[19:56] <chrisccoulson> oh, don't worry about it too much, i don't want to create extra work for people
[19:56] <chrisccoulson> yeah, they have the same ID
[19:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so as long as we are using the upstream XPIs anyway, perhaps we should split them out from teh langpacks again
[19:57] <pitti> it would mean even more packages, but they would allow that kind of flexibility
[19:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: right now we could do that with a po2xpi checkout which moves the 11.04 data to 10.04, and just rebuild them
[19:58] <pitti> (and ensure that they are newer, etc.)
[19:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, splitting them might make sense in the future
[20:27] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i guess for the short term that i could use dpkg-divert to divert the old xpi's couldn't i? ;)
[20:27] <chrisccoulson> (although, that's a bit hacky)
[20:27] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I think Replaces: might be a bit safer
[20:29] <vish> could someone with core upload priv checkout Bug 736250 ? UI freeze coming up and all.. ;)
[20:29] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 736250 in cheese "Update oldish looking icons in cheese effects" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736250
[20:31] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[20:31] <rickspencer3> my Date indicator thinks it's still yesterday :/
[20:31] <rickspencer3> possibly because I left my 'puter on overnight?
[20:32] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, sounds like a bug
[20:32] <rickspencer3> well, it looked like Monday was selected in the calendar
[20:32]  * chrisccoulson hits the unpause button so the world starts spinning again
[20:32] <pitti> mine things I'm going to have appointments in the middle of the night
[20:33] <pitti> I suppose it's again time format FAIL
[20:33] <rickspencer3> I see, whatever date you last selected in teh calendar, is selected when you open it again
[20:33] <rickspencer3> nm
[20:33] <rickspencer3> pitti, maybe you are experiencing truly aweful dls?
[20:33] <pitti> dls?
[20:33] <rickspencer3> like, in Germany, the move the clocks forward 8 hours?
[20:33] <pitti> ah
[20:33] <rickspencer3> daylight savings ;)
[20:34] <pitti> rickspencer3: no, clocks only seem to do that when I wake up in the morning :)
[20:34] <rickspencer3> heh
[20:34] <rickspencer3> pitti, I got your email about my work items
[20:34] <rickspencer3> I am almost done one of them
[20:34] <rickspencer3> and will deal with the others
[20:34] <pitti> rickspencer3: that's fun, as I didn't send one :)
[20:34] <pitti> (it was an IRC ping, though)
[20:34] <rickspencer3> hah
[20:34] <pitti> rickspencer3: awesome, thanks
[20:35] <rickspencer3> IRC ping? maybe that's why I actually responded ;)
[20:35] <didrocks> if this time compiz don't want to load, I'll become aubergine on my face…
[20:36] <rickspencer3> hah
[20:36] <rickspencer3> hey, kenvandine, when you get a moment, could you please look at bug #739923
[20:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 739923 in gwibber "GwibberPosterVBox reports an error and does not submit" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739923
[20:36] <rickspencer3> ?
[20:36] <rickspencer3> basically, it's keeping photobomb from working ...
[20:37] <rickspencer3> which makes it a CRITICAL
[20:37] <kenvandine> hehe
[20:37] <kenvandine> wtf
[20:38] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, is it working for you?
[20:38] <kenvandine> i haven't tried recently, but none of that code has changed
[20:38] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[20:38] <kenvandine> or i don't recall it changing :)
[20:39] <kenvandine> was this working recently?
[20:39] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I have not tried it in a long time
[20:39]  * rickspencer3 tries from here
[20:39] <rickspencer3> camerabin stopped working too :,(
[20:40] <kenvandine> worked for me
[20:40] <kenvandine> i used gwibber-poster
[20:40] <kenvandine> which just embeds a GwibberPosterVBox
[20:41] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[20:41] <rickspencer3> that's all photobomb did as well
[20:41] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, is the code in your samples on launchpad correct?
[20:42] <kenvandine> maybe not :)
[20:42] <kenvandine> haven't looked in a while
[20:42] <kenvandine>  /usr/bin/gwibber-poster should be a good example though
[20:42] <rickspencer3> wow, if you search for "Ubuntu Logo" in Google IMage search with safe search off ...
[20:42] <rickspencer3> you get some "interesting" results
[20:42] <kenvandine> haha
[20:44] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, hmmm, same problem on my desktop
[20:45] <rickspencer3> wait a minute
[20:45] <rickspencer3> I've got that whacky gtk2 with the scrollbar patch
[20:45] <rickspencer3> that's all I can think that might be different
[20:45] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, so do i
[20:45] <kenvandine> is your code in photobomb trunk?
[20:46] <rickspencer3> yah
[20:46] <rickspencer3> and photobomb is in my PPA
[20:48]  * kenvandine installs desktopcouch again :)
[20:48] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, hold on, let me ensure the problem is not on my end
[20:49] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, it's actually throwing the error *before* I click send
[20:53] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, ah!
[20:53] <kenvandine> well
[20:53] <rickspencer3> well well
[20:53] <kenvandine> not sure why... but it is setting the content
[20:53] <kenvandine> which should be fine
[20:54] <kenvandine> but it appears to be setting it before the expose-event maybe?
[20:54] <kenvandine> i assume the bug is in GwibberPosterVBox
[20:54] <rickspencer3> let me try to work around it
[20:54] <kenvandine> so the actual affect is it doesn't update the text count on that initial content
[20:54] <kenvandine> but if you type after it it does
[20:54] <kenvandine> and is accurate
[20:56] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I'm trying to set the content in the expose event instead
[20:56] <rickspencer3> I'll let you know how it works
[20:56] <kenvandine> ok
[20:56] <kenvandine> i am assuming it is my bug though
[20:58] <kenvandine> humm, no... gwibber-poster handles adding that content fine
[20:58] <kenvandine> ah, right
[20:58] <kenvandine> gwibber-poster does that in the expose event
[21:00] <kenvandine> pitti, are you still around?
[21:01] <pitti> kenvandine: yes, knee-deep in debugging cups' multiarch PAM breakage
[21:01] <kenvandine> hehe... ugh
[21:01] <kenvandine> i'll make this quick then
[21:01] <kenvandine> we've had a bunch of bugs about the gwibber db getting too big and causing terrible slow downs
[21:01] <kenvandine> purging old data, ffe?
[21:02] <kenvandine> it is removing data that we provide no UI to display
[21:03] <pitti> kenvandine: sounds fine to me
[21:03] <kenvandine> ok
[21:03] <kenvandine> this should make lots of people happy :)
[21:03] <kenvandine> thx
[21:08] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, it no longers produces an error, but it seems to be silently failing to microblog for me ;)
[21:08] <rickspencer3> also, the submitted even never gets called
[21:08] <rickspencer3> oh
[21:08] <rickspencer3> and my Gwibber feed is 3 days old :,(
[21:09]  * rickspencer3 reboots
[21:15] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, just saw your test post :)
[21:15] <rickspencer3> yah
[21:15] <rickspencer3> good progress
[21:16] <rickspencer3> it doesn't seem like my "submit" handler is getting called, though
[21:16] <rickspencer3> kenvandine ^
[21:17] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, should the event be "activate" rather than "submit"?
[21:17] <rickspencer3> hmmm, but then it could destroy the dialog before it microblogs
[21:18] <kenvandine> no
[21:18] <kenvandine>     self.poster.input.connect("submit", self.on_input_activate)
[21:18] <kenvandine>     self.poster.button_send.connect("clicked", self.on_button_send_clicked)
[21:18] <kenvandine> is what i used
[21:19] <rickspencer3> I see
[21:20] <rickspencer3> I hadn't connected the button up :?
[21:20] <rickspencer3> d'oh
[21:20] <DrDetroit> hello
[21:20] <kenvandine> :-D
[21:20] <DrDetroit> I have been using Ubuntu 10.04 LTS desktop since approx july 10
[21:20] <DrDetroit> I have been quite satisfied except for the last two updates
[21:20] <DrDetroit> for some reason my machine has begun to run very slowly
[21:21] <DrDetroit> this happens on 2.6.32-30-generic and 2.6.32-29-generic but not 2.6.32-28-generic
[21:21] <DrDetroit> has anyone else experienced this issue?
[21:23] <DrDetroit> I have tried to use top itop and ps aux to isolate a process that is consuming my resources but I can foind nothing out of the ordinary
[21:27] <DrDetroit> Can anyone point me in the right direction to troubleshoot my problem
[21:34] <pitti> DrDetroit: I suggest to hop into #ubuntu-kernel; the guys there might be more able to help you
[21:34] <pitti> this indeed sounds like a serious regression
[21:35] <DrDetroit> thanks pitti i am already there
[21:35] <DrDetroit> hehe
[21:35] <DrDetroit> Its something I dont understand
[21:36] <DrDetroit> i am on 28 now and all works fine, quick and speedy
[21:36] <DrDetroit> if i go to 29 or 30 it turns to mush
[21:37] <DrDetroit> since the issue goes away on the 28 kernel it is hard to make the case for a hardware issue
[21:38] <speakman> hi folks
[21:39] <pitti> good night everyone!
[21:39]  * bryceh waves
[21:40] <DrDetroit> nite
[21:40] <speakman> Is there any way to trace bottlenecks on the desktop system? I'm currently on a Xeon W3680, 24GB 1333MHz ECC, 2xVertex 2 120GB SSD in RAID0 and it all just feel extremely laggy!
[21:40] <DrDetroit> and thank you
[21:40] <DrDetroit> what kernel?
[21:40] <speakman> Linux sylpheed 2.6.35-28-generic #49-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 1 14:39:03 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[21:40] <bryceh> speakman, I see lags in firefox but chromium is working fine
[21:40] <speakman> bryceh: I know, I know. But this is in general. Firefox rendering sucks big time
[21:41] <speakman> This lag makes Flash player suck even more btw. Sometimes render the computer useless.
[21:41] <DrDetroit> i have had issues wtih my machine slowing down
[21:41] <bryceh> oh you're not even on natty, nevermind :-)
[21:41] <speakman> no not natty. This is a production machine. :)
[21:41] <bryceh> speakman, for technical support on non-development versions of ubuntu, you might try askubuntu.com or the forums
[21:42] <bryceh> speakman, or #ubuntu if you prefer IRC support
[21:42] <DrDetroit> When I run 2.6.32-30-generic or 2.6.32-29-generic my machine turns to mush but not on 2.6.32-28-generic
[21:42] <speakman> bryceh: thanks, but I think this is a little too much lowlevel issue for #ubuntu
[21:42] <speakman> (I've got only negative experiences from such places)
[21:43] <speakman> And since I'm a deveoper myself, I figure I could help trace the bottlenecks if there tools available.
[21:49] <DrDetroit> i guess the kernel guys are sorta busy
[21:49] <DrDetroit> no answer so far
[21:49] <DrDetroit> hehe
[21:49] <DrDetroit> i can wait
[21:50] <james_w> DrDetroit, you are better of in #ubuntu-kernel with kernel questions
[21:50] <DrDetroit> i thought I asked a kernel question
[21:50] <DrDetroit> hehe
[21:51] <DrDetroit> I have been having problems with my Ubuntu 10,04 LTS running extreamly slow since my last two kernel updates
[21:51] <DrDetroit> My previous 2 updates were 2.6.32-30-generic and 2.6.32-29-generic both exhibited the same strange slow behaviour, but I have regressed to 2.6.32-28-generic and have had no reduction in performance.
[21:51] <james_w> yeah, but kernel experts hang around on #ubuntu-kernel rather than here, so I'm suggesting you ask there instead
[21:52] <DrDetroit> I have tried top itop and ps aux to try and isolate the issue, but nothing stands out as eating up[ my cpu or memeory
[21:52] <DrDetroit> Can anyone point me in the right direction to troubleshoot this issue
[21:52] <DrDetroit> Hehe I did ask but there has not been an answer so far
[21:52] <DrDetroit> not a problem
[21:52] <DrDetroit> I hate to ask too often
[21:53] <DrDetroit> I will ask again in a wjhile
[21:53] <DrDetroit> dont want to be a channel spammer or anything like that
[21:55] <DrDetroit> james_w I did ask on ubuntu-kernel
[21:55] <james_w> ok
[21:55] <james_w> well, I would stick there, they are the experts
[21:56] <DrDetroit> nod
[21:56] <DrDetroit> just looking for someone to point me in the right direction
[21:56] <DrDetroit> thank you
[22:01] <jasoncwarner> TheMuso bryceh RAOF robert_ancell https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-03-22
[22:01] <jasoncwarner> everyone ready?
[22:01] <robert_ancell> yup
[22:01] <jasoncwarner> morning, robert_ancell!
[22:01] <RAOF> Yup.
[22:02] <bryceh> heya
[22:02] <jasoncwarner> morning RAOF and bryceh
[22:02] <jasoncwarner> ok...seems we have enough. Jumping in
[22:02] <jasoncwarner> [TOPIC] X update
[22:03] <bryceh> bugs bugs bugs
[22:03] <RAOF> We now have the final Xserver 1.10 in Natty.
[22:03] <RAOF> There shall no longer be any mass-rebuilds of the stack.  Yay!
[22:04] <bryceh> got fixes in for the vesafb issue causing so many GPU lockups
[22:04] <jasoncwarner> yay!
[22:04] <bryceh> we're still seeing some scattered GPU lockups for other unrelated issues, but the rate of incoming bug reports has gone *way* down
[22:04] <jasoncwarner> Well, I guess there needn't be a long update for X given where we are in cycle; I think "bugs" says it all ;)
[22:05] <bryceh> also I got pitti's DuplicateSignature support added to the -intel apport hook, so that is helping reduce a lot of the triaging work (thanks pitti)
[22:05] <bryceh> aside from fglrx I don't think we have any other outstanding bits.  raof, anything you know of we're pending on?
[22:06] <RAOF> There's the middle-button emulation thingy, but that's not really pending.
[22:06] <jasoncwarner> alright...
[22:06] <bryceh> yeah, think it's just down to bugs.
[22:06] <RAOF> It should be bugs from here on in!
[22:06] <jasoncwarner> :)
[22:07] <TheMuso> hey folks
[22:07] <jasoncwarner> how about [TOPIC] AOB? Anything else?
[22:07] <jasoncwarner> morning TheMuso
[22:07] <TheMuso> sorry was caught up in email.
[22:07] <jasoncwarner> if nothing, don't forget to update the wiki with your individual updates...
[22:08] <bryceh> jasoncwarner, is it worth putting details about bug fixes on there?
[22:08] <jasoncwarner> sure, if you think people would be interested...
[22:08] <jasoncwarner> especially if something is of note :)
[22:08] <bryceh> most are fairly time consuming but seem like of limited interest, and tend to be either jargony or long winded
[22:09] <bryceh> heh, hard for me to judge; they seem noteworthy to me :-)
[22:09] <RAOF> I'd only do it for big bug fixes.  Like if we, some magical day, re-enable intel on i855 and 845. :)
[22:09] <jasoncwarner> yeah, but...you X guys are weird :/
[22:10] <jasoncwarner> cool...thanks everyone...[END MEETING]
[22:10] <bryceh> thanks
[22:10] <RAOF> Bah!  Stop crashing, compiz!
[22:10] <bryceh> RAOF, yeah, I have been WONTFIXing those and directing reporters upstream but I feel like the bad guy every time I do...
[22:12] <RAOF> My sources suggest that 855 might be fixed in the onaeiric timeframe.
[22:13] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah I've had compiz related issues too. Still feels raw to me.
[22:13] <RAOF> It seems like alt-tab is a bit of a russian roulete situation.
[22:13] <TheMuso> Yeah
[22:14] <bryceh> RAOF, nice, although I'll have to believe it when I see it...  I've heard that every release since Feisty ;-)
[22:14] <RAOF> :)
[22:15] <RAOF> BAH!  And the dash!
[22:28] <RAOF> Meep!  Is the pam update *really* meant to pop up a debconf question?
[22:28] <TheMuso> RAOF: Might be worth asking in -devel.
[22:45]  * didrocks waves goodbye
[22:56] <rickspencer3> the new desktop <-> launchpad integration seems to be working well, at least for Quickly
[22:57] <lifeless> rickspencer3: cool
[22:57] <lifeless> rickspencer3: do you have any sense of the usage we should expect?
[22:57] <lifeless> rickspencer3: so that we can have capacity
[22:57] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[22:57] <rickspencer3> hard to say
[22:57] <rickspencer3> I wouldn't expect it to change too much yet
[22:58] <rickspencer3> in fact, maybe it might go down a bit, aiui a few apps are going to break
[22:58] <lifeless> I was meaning after the release :)
[22:59] <lifeless> rickspencer3: to put it in context, we do between 3 and 5 million api requests a day at the moment
[22:59] <rickspencer3> woah
[22:59] <rickspencer3> lifeless, well, I think it will grow over time with this new system
[23:00] <lifeless> rickspencer3: partly this is api inefficiency doing thousands of round trips (which directly correlates to the performance you perceieve in API applications)
[23:00] <rickspencer3> well, actually ... how many of those requests required logging in?
[23:00] <lifeless> rickspencer3: this is across the middle tier, so everything authenticated and everything anonymous that was a cache miss
[23:00] <rickspencer3> anyway, I found the log in code most onerous to write in PyGtk
[23:01] <rickspencer3> so, with this new system, I would not be surpised to see some increase in home rolled tooling
[23:01] <lifeless> yeah
[23:01] <rickspencer3> lifeless, well, thanks to lp for making this so much better!
[23:03] <lifeless> anyhow, if there are plans or expectations for  (for instance) all ubuntu users to sign into LP via APIs - that would likely need some warning :)
[23:05] <rickspencer3> lifeless, sure, no problem
[23:06]  * rickspencer3 boggles
[23:06] <rickspencer3> looks like I haven't dist-upgraded here for a while, getting the new xorg stack
[23:06] <lifeless> gl
[23:06] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:06] <rickspencer3> with RAOF and bryceh, I know I am in good hands
[23:07]  * rickspencer3 whistles non-chalantly
[23:09] <nagappan> Is there a way, I can right click in Unity top panel ? with our product till Ubuntu 10.10 when the app starts an icon appears in notification area, but with 11.04 we are unable to see that, maybe we need to special case to add something in notification area ?
[23:09] <patrickmw> jasoncwarner: do you know who can answer nagappan's question directly? ^
[23:15] <jasoncwarner> nagappan: what are you trying to achieve?
[23:15] <nagappan> jasoncwarner, our product VMware Workstation, have a tray icon
[23:16] <nagappan> jasoncwarner, when the VM is powered on, it appears in the notification area, this works fine till Ubuntu 10.10 and now, we could not
[23:16] <nagappan> jasoncwarner, do we need to change anything to appear there ? or it will not be possible for 3rd party app ?
[23:19] <jasoncwarner> nagappan: I'm guessing vmware workstation uses the systray, which will eventually be phased out. There is a small whitelist of apps that can use in Natty (skype, some java apps).
[23:19] <jasoncwarner> those apps wanting to keep the same functionality should port those to be indicators.
[23:24] <nagappan> patrickmw, thanks, got input from jasoncwarner :-)
[23:24] <jasoncwarner> nagappan: let me know if you need anything else...here are those links... again
[23:25] <jasoncwarner> http://unity.ubuntu.com/projects/appindicators/
[23:25] <jasoncwarner> and http://people.canonical.com/~ted/libappindicator/current/AppIndicator.html
[23:25] <patrickmw> nagappan: ok good.  I knew that it was different, but wanted to make sure you got a straight answer
[23:25] <jasoncwarner> (thanks rickspencer3 for being faster at finding your bookmarks than me ;) )
[23:25] <nagappan> jasoncwarner, sure, thank you very much :-) also to patrickmw
[23:26] <rickspencer3> nagappan, if you already have a panel applet, it should be easy to add app indicator support
[23:26] <nagappan> rickspencer3, okay
[23:26] <rickspencer3> jcastro has helped some other projects with that, I think
[23:26] <nagappan> rickspencer3, okay
[23:27] <didrocks> bye (again ;))
[23:28] <TheMuso> Yay! With nux and unity trunk, I am regularly able to browse the launcher with orca now. Quicklists are still inaccessible, and that needs to be investigated, and Orca says all icons are grayed out, which is not the case, but other than that, I can see my launcher and run apps etc.
[23:29] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, sweet!
[23:29] <rickspencer3> good progress, anyway
[23:30] <rickspencer3> altough, tbh, I was hoping Unity would be farther along by now
[23:30] <rickspencer3> but, nice that it's starting to be accessible
[23:32] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yeah likewise, but given that unity and nux themselves have been moving targets, its great that we are at this point by now at least.
[23:32] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, how do you feel about the possibility that Unity won't be 100% accessible, and users will have to use the Classic Desktop?
[23:33] <rickspencer3> (obviously it's not ideal, but is it terrible?)
[23:33] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Frankly I'd rather they have a working environment, and have a play with unity if they are feeling adventurous, than forcing a half accessible desktop on them. Thsi may be slightly offset if the Alt + F2 run dialog was accessible, but without that, it makes things much more difficult.
[23:34] <jcastro> nagappan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators
[23:34] <jcastro> there are code samples and links to everything you need there
[23:34] <jcastro> if you need a hand mail me at jorge@ubuntu.com and I'll get you pointed in the right direction
[23:35] <jcastro> nagappan: also the unity launcher has some nice things in it now you might want to consider using: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/LauncherAPI
[23:37] <rickspencer3> nagappan, jcastro makes a good point, an indicator may not be exactly what you need anymore
[23:41] <nagappan> jcastro, rickspencer3 that's very useful info, will share the same to our developers
[23:42] <nagappan> TheMuso, I found an updated at-spi2 release, will that hit beta1 ?
[23:43] <nagappan> TheMuso, also today patrickmw showed me Ubuntu Software Center have push button, but that doesn't have accessible action, so we may not be able to perform actions through a11y interface
[23:44] <TheMuso> nagappan: Re at-spi2, I am half way through refreshing mgorse's gnome 2 patch, so hope to have the latest at--spi2 uploaded by the end of the day, and since at-spi2 is in universe, thats not really going to affect beta as such.
[23:44] <TheMuso> nagappan: As to software center, which push button do you refer to?
[23:45] <nagappan> TheMuso, cool, I'm waiting for an important gtk fix with the update, probably will start testing at-spi2 from tomorrow
[23:45] <nagappan> patrickmw, can you please provide more info to TheMuso ?
[23:47] <patrickmw> nagappan, TheMuso: The buttons on the main viewport.  For example, Developer Tools
[23:48] <TheMuso> Hrm ok, let me have a quick look now.
[23:48] <TheMuso> patrickmw: Works for me here.
[23:48] <TheMuso> I.e I can tab between those buttons, and I hear their titles.
[23:48] <TheMuso> Oh actions.
[23:49]  * TheMuso kicks unity-window-decorator and its many focus issues. grrr
[23:49] <TheMuso> patrickmw: What actions do you speak of? I am able to use Orca flat review to click on a button.
[23:50] <patrickmw> TheMuso, I was having issues with click
[23:50] <TheMuso> Works fine here, running orca 2.91.92.
[23:51] <patrickmw> TheMuso, ack.  let me try again so I can get more info
[23:51] <nagappan> TheMuso, can you try with accerciser and do a click ?
[23:52] <TheMuso> nagappan: Sure, let me kill orca first.
[23:52] <TheMuso> Yup, accerciser is not seeing those individual buttons.
[23:53] <TheMuso> Whereas Orca can navigate through the button hierarchy without issue.
[23:53] <TheMuso> When accerciser is loaded, and I mouse over a button and press Control + ?, the whole canvas is hilighted.
[23:53] <TheMuso> highlighted
[23:53] <TheMuso> gah typing
[23:55] <TheMuso> nagappan: May be a similar issue to the gedit combo box bug in GTK.
[23:55] <nagappan> TheMuso, interesting
[23:55] <nagappan> TheMuso, let me verify with Ubuntu 10.10 now
[23:56] <TheMuso> Ok.
[23:59] <nagappan> TheMuso, issue is same with Ubuntu 10.10 as well