[00:32] <rick_h_> sweet, Foord seems cool with the interview, pubbing it mightily.
[00:50] <rick_h_> snap-l: we've passed more s3 bandwith than all of last month, with 10 days still to go :)
[00:54] <rick_h_> DBO: email on the way for google doc, and snap-l it's up there
[00:58] <snap-l> rick_h_: That is awesome!
[00:59] <rick_h_> I need to get that script up for the traffic on that from s3
[00:59] <rick_h_> ugh
[00:59] <rick_h_> maybe just pay the guy with the solution, just hate giving out the aws key
[01:01] <snap-l> wow, 80 visits on one day
[01:16] <snap-l> If you haven't checked out the Mastodon LIve at the Aragon DVD / CD combo, you're seriously missing out
[11:52] <tjagoda> Ahoy
[11:54] <wolfger> morning
[11:56] <rick_h_> party
[11:56] <wolfger> rick_h_ and snap-l: a bit of (not-very-)constructive criticism... the Pycon wrapup podcast? Worst sound levels, ever. If I turn the volume up enough to hear rick_h_ I get my eardrums blasted by the loudest guy at the table. If I turn it down to where I can listen without pain, I can't hear anything rick_h_ says.
[11:57] <rick_h_> wolfger: yea, I think I apologize for it in the post
[11:57] <rick_h_> it was a mess
[11:57] <rick_h_> we had a big room, peopel kept turning around talking behind them, etc
[11:57] <rick_h_> I tried to keep adjusting the levels to keep up
[11:57] <rick_h_> very sorry, lessons learned, won't happen again
[11:58] <wolfger> Sure, I understand it's a logistical nightmare. :-)
[11:58] <rick_h_> it gits a bit better once you get into it
[11:58] <rick_h_> but even still :/
[11:58] <rick_h_> but it was considered good material we wanted to still put out
[11:58] <wolfger> Oh, I finished it on my ride in.
[11:58] <rick_h_> and no chance to rerecord it
[11:58] <wolfger> and I'm sure road noise played a factor in my displeasure
[11:58] <rick_h_> heh, well I take 100% responsibility
[11:59] <rick_h_> I didn't do a good job forcing people to talk into the mics
[11:59] <rick_h_> and I played with levels on the hardware too much to compensate which just made it worse
[11:59] <rick_h_> unfortunately it was my second run with the new gear
[12:00] <rick_h_> and been a lot of learning on my end
[12:02] <rick_h_> love this: http://twitter.com/#!/voidspace/status/50011778788245504
[12:03] <wolfger> Anybody see the O'Reilly disaster relief sale today? http://post.oreilly.com/form/oreilly/viewhtml/9z1zga584ka0cs8c3j3seujd5hvqramv99us79d73h0?utm_content=em-orm-books-videos-ddjpn-elists&utm_campaign=Books+Videos&utm_source=iPost&utm_medium=email&imm_mid=06c4a7&cmp=em-orm-books-videos-ddjpn-elists
[12:06] <wolfger> Thinking about picking up a book or two. Javascript: The Good Parts sounds useful. Learning Android sounds like something I'll set on my bookshelf and plan to read someday.
[12:06] <rick_h_> yea, grabbing the hadoop book now actually
[12:06] <rick_h_> JS the good parts is one of the best 2/3 JS books out there
[12:07] <rick_h_> thought about learning android, but don't know when I'll get to it
[12:07] <wolfger> The Book of Audacity for you podcasters. :-)
[12:07] <rick_h_> already have a couple of books in line on the kindle
[12:07] <rick_h_> that's snap-l's job :P
[12:07] <wolfger> rick_h_: exactly!
[12:07] <wolfger> I've had Android Dev Meetup on my calendar for months now. Never make it.
[12:08] <rick_h_> booooo
[12:08] <rick_h_> you make that lug meeting you were talking about?
[12:08] <wolfger> Yes, I did. Same evening as the meetup
[12:09] <rick_h_> cool
[12:09] <wolfger> but now I have a string of poker tournies on Thursday nights
[12:09] <wolfger> so no more Thursday meetings for the next.... 3 weeks? Something like that
[12:10] <wolfger> Did really well last Thursday. Had a good shot at some serious cash
[12:10] <wolfger> instead, walked away with a buck-oh-five
[12:10] <wolfger> :-p
[12:10] <wolfger> but... I got paid to have fun. Can't beat that.
[12:12] <wolfger> would've gone to CHC-AA Monday, but I wasn't in Dundee for a change :-p
[12:13] <wolfger>  your comments on one of those podcasts I listened to this morning rekindled my interest in a project I planned out some months ago
[12:13] <wolfger> Basically, a specialized Twitter client to turn a hashtag into an impromptu IRC channel
[12:15] <wolfger> Some folks I know have a Twitter #wineparty every Friday, and it's so hard to keep up with that using any standard Twitter client, that I started making plans to do this.
[12:15] <rick_h_> http://thechangelog.com/post/4005924669/earthquake-twitter-client-on-terminal-with-streaming-api
[12:15] <rick_h_> I've got that in my list of things to check out
[12:15] <rick_h_> might be part of that
[12:15] <wolfger> and your whine about Twitter replacing IRC as the backchannel told me, "hey, there's probably a number of geeks who would dig this"
[12:16] <wolfger> I'll check that out
[12:17] <wolfger> but I was thinking of doing an xchat style interface, complete with "user list" based on how recently somebody's used the hashtag (virtually entering/leaving the channel)
[12:17] <wolfger> and set up "private channels" when you get @'d without the hashtag
[12:21] <tjagoda> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/03/blackberry-playbook-launching-april-19-pre-orders-start-at-499-for-16gb.ars
[12:21] <tjagoda> Squeeeee
[12:22] <brousch> a blackberry fanboy?
[12:22] <rick_h_> uh oh, let's not go through this again
[12:22] <brousch> that's like an excel fanboy
[12:22] <rick_h_> read yesterday's morning if you're interested :)
[12:23] <tjagoda> I do use excel to great extent here
[12:23] <tjagoda> =p
[12:23] <brousch> at least you're consistent
[12:23] <tjagoda> I like the comments on that article
[12:23] <tjagoda> "I have a blackberry for work and it's fine as far a business  applications go.  I also like the fact that it is secure enough that  certain governments are a bit jaded by that fact they can't crack my  email. "
[12:25] <brousch> greg-g: wtf is this brownie recipe? hav you actually eaten that?
[12:26] <tjagoda> Brownies?
[12:26] <tjagoda> Wuh?
[12:26] <brousch> on his buzz feed
[12:26] <tjagoda> link?
[12:27] <wolfger> brownies... buzz... :-)
[12:28] <brousch> i lied, it's on his google reader shares
[12:29] <brousch> http://paridy.blogspot.com/2011/03/meal-in-brownie-and-chia-pudding.html
[12:29] <tjagoda> holy christ
[12:29] <tjagoda> that cant be a real brownie
[12:32] <brousch> it frightens and confuses me
[12:49] <snap-l> Good morning
[12:49] <snap-l> wolfger: Sorry for your tender ears
[12:49] <snap-l> The levels were the best that I could do. :)
[12:52] <snap-l> Also, I <3 O'Reilly
[12:52] <snap-l> (the book publisher, not the pundit)
[12:54] <tjagoda> Whyfor?
[13:00] <snap-l> Their sales, and overall plesant experience downloading books from them
[13:00] <snap-l> and that they are donating to Japan
[13:04] <rick_h_> man I hate this code base
[13:04] <snap-l> Which one now?
[13:04] <rick_h_> the original one done by the .net guys
[13:05] <rick_h_> with the C style for loops and db table/columns like HotAlert.HotAlertID
[13:05] <rick_h_> or HotAlert_Status.HotAlert_StatusID
[13:05] <rick_h_> as the pk
[13:05] <brousch> what should it be?
[13:05] <rick_h_> hotalert_status.id
[13:06] <rick_h_> or better yet, status.id
[13:06]  * snap-l quietly thanks brousch, because he didn't see the problem either
[13:06] <rick_h_> ?! Try typing it a ton of times, you'll think about it
[13:06] <brousch> why type when the tools type it for you?
[13:06] <snap-l> rick_h_: That's what autocompleting IDEs are for. ;)
[13:07] <rick_h_> bah, you guys are helpless :P
[13:07] <snap-l> hopeless
[13:07] <snap-l> not helpless
[13:07] <rick_h_> that too
[13:07] <rick_h_> ide completion == helpless, don't think about things like that when you don't have to type it out
[13:07] <rick_h_> makes my eyes bleed
[13:07] <snap-l> Though I'll agree that repeating the name over and over and over is pretty dumb
[13:07] <rick_h_> I mean really, wtf do you need case in table column names for?
[13:08] <snap-l> BecauseTheLastLanguageYouLookedAtWasJava?
[13:08] <rick_h_> "well mysql is case insensitive so I didn't think it mattered"
[13:08] <rick_h_> except when you go to any other db backend...we're supposed to be using an ORM
[13:08] <rick_h_> ugh
[13:08] <rick_h_> anyway, back to work, just had to rant for a second, slowly morphing the code base around
[13:09] <snap-l> Well, and God help you when you hit a database that does care about case sensitive columns
[13:09] <rick_h_> finally have declarative ORM models, but all the queries are still by hand
[13:09] <snap-l> though I'm not sure if PostgreSQL cares
[13:09] <rick_h_> I think it does
[13:09] <jrwren> learning android?  as in Java??? ugh, I feel for your.
[13:09] <jrwren> err, feel bad for you
[13:09] <rick_h_> thankfully SA loves me
[13:09] <rick_h_> next step is to remap the ORM objects names to lower/sensible names
[13:10] <rick_h_> and map to the ugly column names
[13:10] <snap-l> PostgreSQL didn't care in the test select that I did.
[13:10] <rick_h_> and I can slowly remove them from my eyeballs
[13:10] <snap-l> at least, 8.4.7 didn't care.
[13:12] <rick_h_> man I love python
[13:12] <jrwren> just give me regular brownies please.
[13:12] <jrwren> there is already lots of sugar in those bean and squash brownies, I'd rather just have the extra sugar fat and wheat version
[13:13] <jrwren> and yes, I'm sure that is a real brownie, having cookied a lot with all of those ingredients the proportions and textures add up to something that isn't bad.
[13:13] <jrwren> just think of it like a brownie flavored bean pie
[13:13] <jrwren> and if you have not eaten bean pie, then you are lame :p
[13:14] <jrwren> what is wrong with  HotAlert_Status.HotAlert_StatusID ?  I mean sure, just .ID would suffice, but come on, if htat is all you have to bitch about, count your blessings.
[13:14] <rick_h_> hah
[13:14] <rick_h_> sorry, when it's one of a dozen tables/each with 10+ fields all done that way
[13:15] <rick_h_> it's a bit much
[13:15] <rick_h_> you don't need to prefix every column with the table name
[13:15] <jrwren> snap-l++ even vim will autocomplete that shit for you. hit ctrl-n
[13:15] <rick_h_> it's in the table name
[13:15] <rick_h_> it's still ugly as hell, less readble, and harder to keep line lengths in order
[13:16] <jrwren> sounds like you need to man up.
[13:16] <rick_h_> :)
[13:16] <rick_h_> it's my job, I'm supposed to be fixing/exampling how to write this crap better
[13:16] <jrwren> CamelCaseIsPrettyNormalTheseDays_Although_IWill_Admit_Mixing_TheUnderScoreDelimiterRAndomlyIsVeryWeird
[13:16] <jrwren> SoundsLikeYouAreFocusingOnThingsThatDon'tMatter
[13:17] <rick_h_> pep8
[13:17] <rick_h_> meh, whatever
[13:17] <jrwren> is it a python code base?
[13:17] <rick_h_> standards win
[13:17] <rick_h_> yea
[13:17] <jrwren> what does your database design and naming convention have to do with python and pep8 ?
[13:17] <jrwren> C style for loops in your python code?
[13:17] <rick_h_> because it turns into ORM model/attrib names
[13:17] <rick_h_> yea
[13:17] <jrwren> ok, now I understand your gripe.
[13:17] <jrwren> please continue.
[13:18] <rick_h_> sorry, not for, if
[13:18] <rick_h_> if x == 1 or x == 2 or x == 3
[13:18] <jrwren> what is C-sytle if?
[13:18] <rick_h_> if x in [1,2,3]
[13:18] <jrwren> hehehe, just proof someone didn't know python.
[13:18] <rick_h_> right
[13:18] <rick_h_> thus my refactoring, teaching
[13:18] <jrwren> even still on the database front, your ORM should let you map the model/attrib names, if you can't, get a new ORM.
[13:18] <rick_h_> and I get to come here and gripe
[13:19] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I'm doing that now, which is why I <3 Sqlalchemy
[13:19] <rick_h_> but the code is still using old names
[13:19] <rick_h_> so it's not a one step rename
[13:19] <rick_h_> and there are many manually constructed queries
[13:19] <jrwren> awesome.
[13:19] <rick_h_> anyway, too much time on this, didn't mean to create an hour long disucssion
[13:19] <rick_h_> just mornnig cranky gripes...ugh hate this codebase
[13:20] <jrwren> i understand the problems now. Sounds pretty typical.
[13:20] <jrwren> I deal with that kind of crap all day long in C#.
[13:20] <rick_h_> but I have to do it, clean it as I go
[13:20] <rick_h_> get new features released tomorrow
[13:20] <rick_h_> oh yea, everywhere has those codebases that were new, done by the new guy, etc
[13:21] <jrwren> yup.
[13:21] <jrwren> or old guy that was new to the language.
[13:21] <jrwren> my huge gripe is people misunderstanding books.
[13:22] <jrwren> you don't need to apply every patter from the gang of four.
[13:22] <rick_h_> well, they don't get past chapter 4 of the books
[13:22] <rick_h_> heh, we don't get any patterns
[13:22] <rick_h_> guys here more likely to treat python as php straight one page script
[13:22] <jrwren> EWE
[13:22] <jrwren> figures.
[13:22] <rick_h_> I've got a meeting this afternoon to try to convince peopel to do more objects using those magic methods we talked about yesterday
[13:22] <jrwren> that actually makes some sense. python seems to be a popular next leap language from php
[13:22] <rick_h_> making custom iterable objects/etc
[13:23] <rick_h_> well, they come from C/C# background, thus the c-like if
[13:23] <rick_h_> but python lets you do whatever
[13:23] <jrwren> what py webframework are they uysing?
[13:23] <rick_h_> since you can write a straight up/down shell script with it without ever calling a method
[13:23] <rick_h_> pylons
[13:23] <rick_h_> but still, they put app config in cotrollers/appconfig.py
[13:23] <jrwren> C and C# have about as much in common as PHP and Python... so if their background is really strong in both C and C#, then they are pretty versatile.
[13:23] <rick_h_> they import into templates because they can
[13:23] <jrwren> hrm.
[13:24] <rick_h_> and reusable isnt the name of the game
[13:24] <jrwren> I don't know pylon well enough I guess.
[13:24] <rick_h_> copy/pasted crap all over
[13:24] <jrwren> ewe.
[13:24] <jrwren> gross.
[13:24] <rick_h_> meh, not much to know
[13:24] <jrwren> that is bad no matter what the lang/platform
[13:24] <rick_h_> it gives you a directory structure to put your stuff in
[13:24] <brousch> so strict django-like templates would help keep your people in line?
[13:24] <rick_h_> yea, exactly
[13:24] <rick_h_> but so easy in python to copy/paste
[13:24] <jrwren> its easy in any lang, you stil don't do it.
[13:24] <rick_h_> no, tempaltes are more flexible, which is awesome when you need it
[13:24] <rick_h_> but yea, gun, bullet have fun
[13:27] <snap-l> New Open Metalcast is up. http://openmetalcast.com/2011/03/22/open-metalcast-episode-17-with-a-little-help-from-my-friends/
[13:27] <rick_h_> yay
[13:27] <brousch> pygame on android? i don't suppose anyone has tried this http://pygame.renpy.org/
[13:28] <snap-l> There's a branch of pygame that someone is working on for Android
[13:28] <snap-l> (subset, rather)
[13:28] <binbrain> rick_h_ you have to have a meeting to convince people to programmer in Python like Python programmers?
[13:29] <binbrain> my last place was like that
[13:29] <binbrain> getters and setters, crap like that
 getters and setters that is
[13:29] <jrwren> i can't wait until ruby gets to this point.
[13:29] <jrwren> 8then people will STFU about how great ruby is, and realize that any lang is great when its in great hands.
[13:30] <snap-l> Hasn't it already gotten to that point?
[13:30] <snap-l> or am I misremembering
[13:30] <rick_h_> binbrain: it's slow. We don't tend to work on the same projects at the same time
[13:30] <rick_h_> don't do code reviews
[13:30] <rick_h_> and meetings are rare/far between where I can show stuff like this
[13:31] <rick_h_> so it's more a personal, "hey, I changed xxx in your project, isn't that cool" type of things
[13:31] <binbrain> we have a small shop, and we actually do code reviews, this would be my 1st job that actually put the effort in
[13:31] <binbrain> only 4 python folks, and before a release, everybody has to go through and validate other peoples code
[13:31] <binbrain> 1st for me
[13:31] <binbrain> validate the code and the test
[13:32] <jrwren> code reviews are overrated.
[13:32] <rick_h_> yea, and here I'm just finally getting us to do feature branches on our own
[13:32] <rick_h_> and work on pulling them together pre-release bit by bit
[13:32] <jrwren> shared code ownership can be just as effective.
[13:32] <snap-l> jrwren: Depends on the shop
[13:33] <binbrain> jrwren I don't have a problem with them, takes a few days, and we've caught things with them
[13:33] <jrwren> right, and I wouldn't want to work in a shop were code reviews were rated highly
[13:33] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but a code review would give me a place to give constructive notes like the if statements "did you know you could write it like xxx"
[13:33] <jrwren> rick_h_: patch it and make those be the commit notes and then make sure everyone reads the commit log.
[13:33] <rick_h_> yea, but they don't :P
[13:34] <jrwren> if you can't justify it in the commit notes, then you are just being a zealot about subjective opinion
[13:34] <binbrain> like, you changed xyz, did you consider abc over here though? and crap like that
[13:34] <rick_h_> I send out emails/notes/links to articles all the time
[13:34] <jrwren> the focus on reading the commit log :)
[13:34] <rick_h_> mark as read, delete
[13:34] <tjagoda> http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/libya0309/s_l21_RTR2JKJ9.jpg
[13:34] <rick_h_> oh, I can commit all day, doesn't mean they read the logs
[13:34] <tjagoda> That is one bad ass Libyan.
[13:34] <jrwren> so people aren't interested in doing a better job? that is a shame. you can't improve teams that don't want to improve.
[13:35] <rick_h_> well, they have the attitude of "I'm so busy, I'll look at that when I have time"
[13:35] <rick_h_> but don't realize that some of the improvements save them time
[13:35] <rick_h_> a change comes in and needs to go through 10 copy/pasted places == longer than extract class/method and update
[13:35] <rick_h_> and if they don't know the python tricks to make life easier, I need a chance to show/teach
[13:35] <jrwren> right.
[13:36] <rick_h_> "oh look, you can just pass that validator method in, and call it there...don't need to copy/paste the validator code"
[13:36] <jrwren> if they acknoledge that doing the same thing in 10 places is bad, then you at least have a place to start.
[13:36] <rick_h_> right
[13:36] <jrwren> if htey think that its supposed to be that way, then you are wasting your time.
[13:36] <binbrain> I'd say a large percentage of programmers just want to get the job over with and collect a paycheck
[13:37] <rick_h_> binbrain: ++
[13:37] <jrwren> have you ever met any of them?
[13:37] <binbrain> huh, all the time
[13:37] <jrwren> I haven't. I've only met people who want to do a better job.
[13:37] <binbrain> interesting
[13:37] <jrwren> I've met lots of devs that honestly don't know any better.
[13:37] <rick_h_> I've met people that build a lot of false blockers as to why they can't do better
[13:38] <rick_h_> don't have time is the biggest thing
[13:39] <binbrain> its easy to find people who want to do a better job, you find them at meetups usually
[13:39] <binbrain> you find them at coffee house coders ;)
[13:39] <jrwren> I'm talking about going into clients.
[13:40] <jrwren> But yes, the meetups, user groups, and conferenes are an echo chamber of people who want to do better and know where to look to do better.
[13:40] <jrwren> right, its thoe false blockers that are the problem.
[13:41] <jrwren> I think everyone wants to do better, there are just a lot of misguided people out there about how to do better.
[13:41] <rick_h_> right, but CHC is 6-10 people, how many devs are in the area?
[13:42] <binbrain> jrwren, I think your glass might be slightly half full on that one, but its not a black and white issue anyways, takes all kinds
[13:42] <jrwren> oh sure.
[13:43] <jrwren> but if you ask anyone in any profession if they want to do a good job, very rarely will you get the answer "no"
[13:45] <binbrain> just like when you ask most people how things are and they tell you just fine even though their car just died
[13:46] <binbrain> ;)
[13:46] <jrwren> holy shit, my tweet is getting replies. *sigh* I was just throwing away a tweet.
[13:47] <rick_h_> lol
[13:47] <jrwren> that is two very different things, although both lead to volumes on human psycology
[13:47] <binbrain> time for coffee and a meeting
[14:20] <brousch> it's kind of creepy to run across rick_h_ in random places on the internet http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5155135/how-to-organize-a-python-project
[14:20] <rick_h_> I'm everywhere!
[14:20] <rick_h_> boo, no votes for my answer
[14:20] <rick_h_> what a crock :P
[14:21] <rick_h_> oh crap, and top answer has a import *
[14:21]  * rick_h_ facepalms
[14:21] <_stink_> record a rant!
[14:21] <_stink_> there is no shortage of topics. :)
[14:21] <brousch> i was especially surprised to see you there since the question was originally about pydev
[14:22] <rick_h_> lol
[14:23] <rick_h_> well, it was organizing your own packages, and modern-package-template helps with a lot of that
[14:29] <brousch> what is paster? i can find docs on PAste, but that's web stuff
[14:34] <brousch> nvm, finally found it
[14:36] <jrwren> I'l go vote you up and down vote that :)
[14:38] <jrwren> well, no i won't. I think that is a better answer
[14:38] <jrwren> but I'll up vote ya anyway :)
[14:45] <rick_h_> lol, thanks
[14:49] <greg-g> brousch: yeah, it is effing good too! (the brownies)
[14:50] <snap-l> Yay, I've got a file cabinet that will be delivered tomorrow
[14:50] <greg-g> and to the rest of you: yes, it is a great effing brownie. I had a coworker blind taste it and they loved it, then I told them what was in it (hence that comment on the post)
[15:38] <snap-l> Ordered a bike rack for our bikes
[15:38] <snap-l> Looking to do some riding this year. Didn't get much of a chance last year.
[15:39] <rick_h_> cool, I've got a goal of getting a new one with a kid friendly ride of some sort
[15:41] <snap-l> Yeah, I want to take our bikes to get them checked out
[15:44] <greg-g> yay!
[16:03] <jrwren> whoa... so with js-ctypes I could call open from JS and get a fstream!?!?
[16:03] <jrwren> err get a file descriptor rather?
[16:18] <snap-l> I want to know why Jono Bacon's Art of Community ePub makes my ereader go for a toss
[16:19] <greg-g> go for a toss? Did it also implant British English in your head?
[16:19] <rick_h_> read it fine on mine :P
[16:20] <rick_h_> lol
[16:20] <rick_h_> maybe he just means he's reading it "your community has gone for a toss"
[16:20] <snap-l> blame working with some Indian co-workers. :)
[16:21] <rick_h_> so how does one go for a toss? Is it like "I'm going to take a lunch break and play some horseshoes"?
[16:24] <snap-l> rick_h_: It's a euphemism for masturbation. :)
[16:25] <snap-l> only in Britis English, it sounds much more dignified.
[16:25] <snap-l> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=go%20for%20a%20toss
[16:25] <rick_h_> oh, that toss...nice phrase there
[16:25] <snap-l> Actually, not so much
[16:26] <snap-l> Usually means things are severely fucked up
[16:26] <snap-l> though I thought it was a euphemistic way
[16:26] <snap-l> freaky sex, apparently
[16:27] <greg-g> wow
[16:27] <jrwren> anyone still on XP, this made me LOL. Start->Run->Fonts (to open the windows font dir) Then in the file menu click "install new font.."  its a windows 3.1 dialog!
[16:27]  * rick_h_ looks around our complete XP corporate environment...ummm
[16:28] <jrwren> I know there are XP folks in here.
[16:28] <greg-g> that's what a lot of the computers at the library are still running
[16:28] <snap-l> jrwren: Yep, there's a lot of Win3.1isms still in XP
[16:28] <greg-g> all new machiens are Win7, they did skip vista
[16:28] <snap-l> I just tried it, and yes it's uuuuuugly
[16:29] <snap-l> I never liked the Win3.1 dialog box for files.
[16:29] <rick_h_> yea, we're supposed to be rolling out new desktops with win7 this year
[16:29] <rick_h_> but let's just say it's towards the end of march and not seen any yet
[16:29] <rick_h_> and I don't think win7 plays nice with our old novell ldap box
[16:30] <snap-l> At the risk of getting jrwren to correct me, I don't think moving from XP to Win 7 is terribly easy.
[16:31] <DBO> it is if you upgrade the apple way
[16:31] <snap-l> DBO: Ala new desktop machines?
[16:31] <DBO> yeps
[16:33] <rick_h_> well that part is ok
[16:33] <rick_h_> but the network, when you're a fake MS shop like us, is the issue
[16:33] <rick_h_> ldap via novell, file share servers, keriomail exchange mail faker, etc
[16:33] <rick_h_> we're wanna be AD without the AD
[16:34] <snap-l> I love that my kobo has a sqlite3 database on it
[16:34] <rick_h_> hey, bookie is making me like sqlite more and more (well and hate it some as well though)
[16:35] <rick_h_> can you access it? view it?
[16:35] <snap-l> I have a love / hate relationship with it
[16:35] <snap-l> Yeah, it's under the .kobo directory
[16:35] <snap-l> has .conf files under there as well
[16:36] <snap-l> and a Trolltech.conf file. ;)
[16:36] <rick_h_> the limits on table alterations, and the complete crap rules with fulltext indexed 'virtual tables' is maddening
[16:36] <snap-l> Damn thing is probably running Qt.
[16:36] <rick_h_> nice, qt based eh?
[16:37] <snap-l> except this fucking thing isn't updating the library
[16:38] <snap-l> and much like banshee, it takes forever to see new content when it is working
[16:48] <rick_h_> ok, so the printer let's me download a driver for 'linux' that's got cups in the name, but ends in .exe
[16:49] <snap-l> wine?
[16:49] <rick_h_> file says "PE32 executable for MS Windows (GUI) Intel 80386 32-bit, LHa self-extracting archive"
[16:49] <binbrain> don't proceed any further, might be a virus
[16:49] <rick_h_> well, got it from the manufacturer site, but ok
[16:49] <binbrain> do you have antivirus software installed
[16:49] <rick_h_> have clamav around
[16:50] <binbrain> dude, just joking
[16:50] <rick_h_> :P
[16:50] <binbrain> clamav, I hope your CPU is ok
[16:50] <rick_h_> don't keep it running, it's installed
[16:50] <jrwren> snap-l: lol, how about i agree with you. moving from XP to Win7 is not easy.
[16:51] <rick_h_> hmm, so maybe I can open that up on windows and extract some ppd files or something
[16:51] <jrwren> did you know PPD files can shell out to executables?
[16:51] <jrwren> some mac printer drivers are PPD and then have mac-only binaries that won't work on linux.
[16:51] <jrwren> stpuid dell
[16:53] <rick_h_> heh, did not know that, nice
[16:55] <rick_h_> ok, that worked
[16:55] <rick_h_> extraxted to just a .ppd file, love plaintext
[16:56] <rick_h_> sweet, and test page
[16:59] <jrwren> http://signup.balanon.com/yu3m1
[16:59] <jrwren> i spam channel with that link :p
[17:01] <ColonelPanic001> anyone install Firefox 4 on ubuntu yet?
[17:13] <greg-g> ColonelPanic001: I've been running the mozilla-next PPA, so I've be following the betas just fine
[17:15] <ColonelPanic001> just curious. I just put it on this macbook here at work, but haven't bothered finding the PPA or whatnot for the linux boxes yet
[17:15] <ColonelPanic001> and by that I mean, I installed it today
[17:21] <greg-g> ColonelPanic001: btw: http://askubuntu.com/questions/6339/how-do-i-install-firefox-4/612
[17:25] <brousch> rick_h_: you'd be proud of me. i'm running pylint over my code now
[17:25] <ColonelPanic001> greg-g: thanks
[17:51] <ColonelPanic001> completely unscientific/etc, but FF4 does feel a little zippier
[17:55]  * greg-g nods
[17:56] <jrwren> oh it feels WAY faster.
[17:56] <jrwren> not just hte JS either.
[17:56] <jrwren> but i typically have 20+ tabs
[17:56] <ColonelPanic001> Sync was something I've been hoping to get to trying, too. Nice
[17:57] <jrwren> and just changing tabs feels far faster
[17:57] <ColonelPanic001> yeah, me too
[17:57] <ColonelPanic001> same here
[17:57] <jrwren> js-ctypes looks awesome too
[17:57] <ColonelPanic001> have a bad habit of leaving tabs laying around
[17:57] <ColonelPanic001> js-ctypes?
[17:57] <ColonelPanic001> hah, nice
[17:57] <jrwren> you can call native C functions from js now.
[17:57] <ColonelPanic001> I hadn't heard of this
[17:57] <ColonelPanic001> crazy
[18:51] <snap-l> Hurray, I have discovered how to do album art for both mp3 and ogg
[18:51] <snap-l> Now to figure out how to programmatically do it, and then use it for both lococast and open metalcast
[18:53] <rick_h_> brousch: hah, good stuff
[18:53] <rick_h_> after that make sure to run pep8
[18:54] <snap-l> http://blogs.forbes.com/jeffbercovici/2011/03/22/aol-folds-30-brands-including-politics-daily/ <- I'll give someone a dollar per site if they can prove that any one of these sites was in their history before today.
[18:54] <snap-l> (barrig huffington post)
[18:55] <jjesse> i read Luxist every day
[18:55] <snap-l> screenshot, or no cash
[18:56] <jjesse> lol i had no idea any of those sites existed
[19:00] <snap-l> Jeez, who at PyCharm thought having 5 licenses for the same codebase was a good idea?
[19:00] <rick_h_> lol
[19:01] <rick_h_> choice!
[19:01] <tjagoda> mmm
[19:01] <tjagoda> speedy firefox 5
[19:01] <tjagoda> wow
[19:01] <tjagoda> uh
[19:01] <tjagoda> yeah
[19:01] <tjagoda> 5
[19:01] <tjagoda> bet you wish you had 5 and not 4
[19:01] <snap-l> Commercial, Personal, Academic, Classroom, and Open Source
[19:01] <brousch> there's also Expired, which lets you run it for 30 minutes before it shuts down
[19:03] <snap-l> Why not the odd license, which allows you to run every other line of code, which you'd think might not work, but instead plays the collected organ works of Reggie Wilson
[19:04] <snap-l> Sorry, but 5 licenses means I'm not touching that fucker with a 10 foot pole.
[19:04] <_stink_> haha
[19:04] <snap-l> (of course, what they mean is 5 different ways of paying for the software)
[19:20] <brousch> ug, i used to enjoy speccing out new workstations. now it's just tedious. is this a sign of old age?
[19:20] <snap-l> No, it's a sign that there aren't that many compelling options anymore?
[19:21] <brousch> it's all tiny variations on cpu and graphics cards
[19:21] <brousch> everything looks the same
[19:22] <brousch> and this is a drafting/3d workstation, so they get fancy stuff
[19:31] <windows> hey all
[19:32] <snap-l> hola
[19:34] <_stink_> hi
[19:34] <windows> how's in going snap-l
[19:34] <windows> it*
[19:35] <snap-l> It goes, and goes, and ...
[19:35] <snap-l> Yourself?
[19:37] <windows> bout the same
[19:37] <windows> at work
[19:39] <snap-l> God, I hate door-to-door folks
[19:48] <windows> that's understandable
[19:51] <_stink_> kick them
[19:55] <rick_h_> I hate mysql, that is all, wasting my freaking afternoon
[20:02] <wolfger> woo
[20:13] <rick_h_> that good eh?
[20:16] <wolfger> It was a day...
[20:16] <wolfger> normally I'm bored and/or this channel is slow, so I can keep up all day long
[20:16] <wolfger> today I was busy and the channel was hopping. i gave up :-p
[20:17] <wolfger> and now I'm just unwinding finally. On the plus side, my wifi finally seems to be stable. :-)
[20:17] <snap-l> heh
[20:22] <snap-l> GBS = Google Books?
[20:27] <snap-l> Yep, it is
[20:28] <snap-l> A federal judge in Manhattan on Tuesday rejected Google Inc.'s settlement with authors and publishers that would allow it to make millions of books available online, saying it would give the Internet giant the ability to "exploit" books without the permission of copyright owners.
[20:28] <snap-l> After all, the ability to exploit authors should be the purey of the publishers alone
[20:28] <snap-l> stupid.
[20:32] <greg-g> heh
[20:33] <greg-g> my personal opinion: the settlement went too far, over stepped what a normal class action lawsuit can do. I agree with Judge Chin's opinion. If they turn it in to an opt-in it should be fine.
[20:34] <greg-g> remember, we're no longer talking about just scanning, searching, and showing snippets. The settlement gave Google a monopoly on scanning, searching, showing full books, and selling orphan books
[20:34] <greg-g> my wording was a bit wrong, it gave Google only a monopoly on the orphans and showing full text part
[20:35] <greg-g> from his opinion: "The case was about the use of an indexing and searching tool, not the sale of complete copyrighted works."
[20:36]  * greg-g stops yaking about GBS
[20:37] <binbrain> am I behind that I just found out about the glow.mozilla.org easter egg?
[20:38] <greg-g> easter egg?
[20:38] <binbrain> ahh huh, at least I'm not the last to find out
[20:38] <ColonelPanic001> wat
[20:39] <greg-g> TELL ME!
[20:39] <binbrain> :)
[20:39] <wolfger> what glow.mozilla.org easter egg?
[20:39] <ColonelPanic001> vee have vays of making you talk
[20:39] <binbrain> its only fair to hint, as that is the way I was told about it
[20:39] <binbrain> hint: try the number keys
[20:40] <ColonelPanic001> ARG!
[20:40] <greg-g> nice
[20:40] <ColonelPanic001> kill it with fire
[20:40] <snap-l> ?
[20:41] <snap-l> I'm messing wiht the num keys, and not getting anything
[20:41] <wolfger> Nice.... glow.mozilla.org tells me to "Please find a browser that supports javascript and <canvas>. Get Firefox" despite the fact that I'm using Firefox
[20:41] <greg-g> what version?
[20:41] <ColonelPanic001> I'm not sure how I did it, snap-l. it only did it once, keep trying
[20:41] <ColonelPanic001> "1.5"
[20:41] <binbrain> it doens't seem to be consistently possible
[20:41] <wolfger> Natty version.... with NoScript :-)
[20:42] <snap-l> wolfger: That's likely 3.6
[20:42] <Blazeix> wolfger: I have bad news for you. NoScript can adversely affect javascript.
[20:42] <ColonelPanic001> there it goes again
[20:42] <greg-g> I know I know, simple 2 presses
[20:42] <wolfger> snap-l: it's 4.0
[20:42] <greg-g> not the number 2, mind you
[20:42] <snap-l> Cute. I think I found it
[20:43] <wolfger> but despite me not allowing scripts wily-nily, they should be able to detect I'm using their damned product
[20:44] <snap-l> wolfger: You're the one  breaking the web, not them. ;)
[20:45] <wolfger> I am so ridiculously happy that I'm still online. I think this is a record.
[20:46] <wolfger> 90 minutes on the hotel wifi without the realtek module crapping out
[20:47] <wolfger> To celebrate, I think I'll write some code
[21:00] <snap-l> http://programming-motherfucker.com/
[21:02] <wolfger> Anybody running Natty want to confirm this bug for me? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/740486
[22:31] <brousch> am i missing something? why would i buy a 27" 1080p monitor over a 24" 1080p monitor? wouldn't the 27" just have bigger pixels?
[23:14] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, but it's bigger
[23:14] <rick_h_> bigger == better
[23:15] <rick_h_> else why get a 42" 1080p tv over a 36" 1080p :P
[23:16] <rick_h_> bah, twitter search on bookie is useless
[23:29] <brousch> well for TVs it's so you can sit farther away
[23:40] <snap-l> http://doctormo.org/2011/03/22/firefox-4-0-utterly-worse-than-useless/ <- Seriously? Bzip don't work on Ubuntu?
[23:40] <rick_h_> don't get me started
[23:40] <snap-l> I shudder to think what retardation this person is trying to personify
[23:42] <Blazeix> wow, that pains me.
[23:42] <rick_h_> "If my grandmother can't do it, it's too hard...why do you make me think stupid mozilla?"
[23:42] <rick_h_> dammit, are you your grandmother? Does she need FF4, really?
[23:43] <rick_h_> if she did, and ran linux, do you think she'd shut up and quit whining and maybe look something up?
[23:43] <snap-l> Or maybe call her grandchildren?
[23:43] <snap-l> yes, installing Linux software is not like installing it on a mac
[23:43] <snap-l> sorry, life's a bitch
[23:44] <snap-l> I'm sure granny is going to know how to install FF4 on her Windows machine if she wasn't given admin access, as well
[23:46] <snap-l> They patented Google Doodles
[23:51] <snap-l> http://www.shermann.name/2011/03/why-im-always-get-impression.html
[23:51] <snap-l> ^ heh
[23:52] <rick_h_> yea, that's what led me to the original post
[23:52] <rick_h_> and that is all wrong...not elitist...just stupid
[23:52] <snap-l> RT @KarlVanHoet: @danbenjamin So: Your pod-casts are not available in FLAC. Via Lynx. Which is, of course, a bug. So.
[23:52] <rick_h_> lol
[23:53] <rick_h_> come on, someone send it in to us, I dare you
[23:53] <rick_h_> let me warm up the mic first
[23:55] <snap-l> I understand Martin's problem
[23:56] <snap-l> but he's putting the onus of blame on the wrong people
[23:56] <rick_h_> who is martin?
[23:56] <snap-l> The original "bzip no installed" dude
[23:56] <rick_h_> dr schmo guy?
[23:56] <snap-l> yes
[23:56] <rick_h_> gotcha
[23:56] <snap-l> Because it's not Firefox's problem
[23:57] <snap-l> It's like complaining when you go to Astoria that they have all that sugar when you're diabetic
[23:57] <snap-l> Here's a novel one: patience?