lifelessScottK: hi00:36
ScottKHello lifeless.01:22
lifelessScottK: I wanted to see if +queue works better for you now01:27
lifelessScottK: just for NEW/UNAPPROVED handling01:27
ScottKlifeless: I don't have any packages to accept, but we're going into beta freeze on Friday, so should be pleanty then.01:28
lifelessScottK: is there any way we can check before frday?01:28
ScottKI'll find something.01:28
lifelessScottK: (if its a problem on friday, we probably can't do anything till late monday to fix it)01:28
ScottKOK.  There's no doubt some binary New that needs doing.01:29
ScottKI'll have a look in a bit.01:29
micahgScottK: you could always upload some random package with a new source name a couple dozen times to test :)01:38
ScottKI could.01:38
=== matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk
micahglifeless: I just got a page not found on clicking logout02:08
lifelessbug  663975 ?02:09
ubot5Launchpad bug 663975 in Launchpad itself "Log out button can go to an invalid URL" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66397502:09
lifelessor bug 579547 ?02:09
ubot5Launchpad bug 579547 in Launchpad itself "The Log Out link does not take you to the Logout landing page" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57954702:09
lifelessor bug 684210 ?02:09
ubot5Launchpad bug 684210 in Launchpad itself "404 when logging out during +filebug" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/68421002:09
lifelessor bug 628410 ?02:09
ubot5Launchpad bug 628410 in Launchpad itself "crashes on logout" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62841002:09
micahglifeless: it's 68421002:10
=== jtv is now known as jtv-eat
lifelessScottK: did you get a chance to test +queue?08:59
=== jtv-eat is now known as jtv
mrevellHello 'padders09:08
czajkowskimrevell: *hugs*09:50
mrevellHello there czajkowski09:50
czajkowskimrevell: how's you?09:56
mrevellI'm well thanks czajkowski. How are you?09:56
czajkowskinot too bad, sitting in the office, looking at my very long to do list and out at the sunshine09:56
mrevellHeh, well, at least we have the sunshine.09:57
czajkowskisuch a pretty view of the canal and the boats going by down here09:59
ScottKlifeless: No.  I knew I was forgetting something last night.  I'll try it today.10:19
wgrantIt's still by no means fast, but it should be somewhat better.10:24
arand_mrevell: Hello, in regards to the PPA ToU, Martin Owens making a conflicting statement on the mailing list, so I just wanted to make sure, freeware (provided all packaging componets also are freeware) can go in a PPA?10:52
geserwgrant: Hi, are you a little bit familiar with package sets?10:53
mrevellarand_, Hi there. I haven't seen Martin's email yet. I spoke to a few people in the Canonical Launchpad team yesterday and we agreed that the terms of use allow you to do what you want ... so long as it's freely distributable.10:53
wgrantgeser: I am.10:53
geserwgrant: is it a bug that DMB owned package sets in maverick got TB owned in natty? I guess it happend when natty got initialized10:54
lifelessgeser: wgrant wants to talk to you about the ftbfs report too :)10:54
lifelessScottK: thanks10:54
lifelesswgrant: +queue /processing/ was still slow? did you get a ++oops++ ?10:54
wgrantgeser: Hm, interesting. When was the ownership transferred from TB to DMB?10:54
wgrantlifeless: There are bits of it which should still be terribly slow.10:55
geserwgrant: those package sets where created DMB owned by the TB (or more precisely cjwatson at that time)10:55
wgrantgeser: Hm, OK. Let me check the copying code.10:55
mrevellarand_: I've just read Martin's email and I can totally understand why he says what he does but our PPA terms of use are different to those of our project hosting terms of use (https://help.launchpad.net/Legal/ProjectLicensing)10:55
lifelesswgrant: right, care to get a ++oops++ trace, for proactive fixing?10:55
geserwgrant: see also my question to the TB about it for a list of package sets (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000744.html)10:56
arand_mrevell: Ok, excellent. I'll continue poking upstream in hopes that one day in the future... Anyhow, for now, great, I will re-open the PPA with these terms applying to the packages, thanks for looking into it.10:56
mrevellarand_, No problem. Thanks for being flexible to meet the terms of use.10:57
wgrantgeser: Distroseries initialisation creates the new packagesets with the same owner as the distroseries. This sounds like a bug.10:58
wgrantgeser: I'm not sure if packagesets are transferrable without SQL.10:59
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=== jcsackett changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contacts: jcsackett | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
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=== deryck is now known as deryck[lunch]
exarkunWhat's the URL to launchpad staging?16:05
exarkunhas it really been down for two days?16:06
tsimpsonwell, staging is hardly gets the love production does16:07
tsimpsonmaybe jcsackett knows more?16:07
jcsackettexarkun: staging gets used for testing our db changes. my understanding is that we've had db changes cause a problem in the staging update/restore.16:20
jcsackettexarkun: you can use qastaging.launchpad.net if you want to try something out.16:21
exarkunOkay.  So eventually it will come back, as soon as someone deals with those changes?16:21
exarkunI was trying to look at a bug import (that you did for me, thanks :).  Will that be on qastaging too?16:21
jcsackettexarkun: oh, of course.16:22
jcsackett(to what you needed staging for)16:22
jcsackettregrettably, i don't think that *will* be on qastaging. you can check, and if it is not i can see if we can import it there.16:22
exarkunIt's not a big deal, I can wait.  This migration is on my back, back, back burner...16:23
jcsackettexarkun: understood. i can tell you staging will be brought back up as soon as we've sorted the issue.16:23
exarkunCool, thanks.16:23
jcsackettexarkun: while it's true staging doesn't get the love production does, it is an important part of the lp development process, so we have a vested interest in getting back up asap. :-)16:23
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pedro__hi from Vienna17:27
pedro__What action would you take if someone spams launchpad and you think you know the responsible company/person ?17:28
pedro__Really just nothin ?17:32
EvilPhoenixpatience is a virtue dude17:32
jcsacketthi pedro__: can you point me to the spam in question?17:33
jcsackettconventionally we have a question opened at answers.launchpad.net/launchpad pointing to the spam and with all the relevant details.17:33
jcsackettif it's an lp user, we contact them and may disable their account, and we get the spam comments removed.17:34
pedro__http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XO_Communications   /* diploma scam is the prob on launchpad - email address of user was faked also17:34
=== deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck
jcsackettpedro__: was the spam on launchpad, via a list, some other thing?17:36
pedro__hi Jsackett, sent you a spam investigation report  already17:37
pedro__I wrote already a letter to XO/Allegiance and did not get any reply yet - SPAM seems to be their business model17:40
jcsackettah, pedro, you're one of the users i contacted via email some time ago?17:41
* pedro__ goes for a walk17:41
pedro__so how many users got this problem ?17:46
jcsackettpedro__: as i said in the email, there were just a few spam comments. they have been dealt with.17:48
jcsackettif you can confirm that your email/lp accounts are not compromised, i would be happy to reactivate your account.17:48
pedro__not yet, I still got now answer from XO/Allegiance about the SPAM of their customers - waiting since last Thursday17:50
pedro__Can someone here proof if XO/Allegiance Telecom is supporting spammers ?17:51
torkvemadaHello all. Please, could anyone tell me, is there any progress with git import? I want to import rather large project with 7 submodules for packaging, but can't do this because submodules are not supported.17:52
torkvemadaI would be happy even if tree was imported without submodules at all - as I realize, I can "emulate" them during packaging by nesting a number of branches. But there is no such import option :(17:54
* pedro__ learns english till 25 years and is still a beginner in talking calm and friendly17:57
=== beuno-lunch is now known as beuno
jcsackettpedro__: dealing with whatever compromised your email isn't a requisite for reactivating your account.17:59
jcsacketttorkvemada: i see bug 402814 as being the source of info for your question.17:59
ubot5Launchpad bug 402814 in Launchpad itself "Importing revisions with submodules is not supported" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40281418:00
jcsackettis the very recent comment there you?18:00
torkvemadayes :)18:00
torkvemadabut there's no progress info there since September.18:01
jcsackettyes, i see that.18:01
torkvemadaI was hoping someone knows something more specific18:01
pedro__jcsacket - ok, lets try to reuse my launchpad account - you are my honeypot ;-)18:03
=== sinzui changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contacts: sinzui | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
bjfi'm looking for the api documentation for login_with(), i normally use "production" or "staging" but want to use the "qastaging" server and can't remember if I just use the url instead of "staging" for the second parameter18:30
leonardrbjf: you should be able to use "qastaging"18:31
bjfleonardr, will give that a try18:31
bjfleonard, i'm getting: ValueError: qastaging is not a valid URL or an alias for any Launchpad server18:42
bjfleonardr, i believe i have to use the actual url18:42
leonardrbjf: you probably have an old version of launchpadlib. use the url for now18:44
bjfi'm running on Lucid18:44
bjfleonardr, ^18:44
leonardrbjf: yes, use the url until you upgrade to the maverick version18:45
bjfleonardr, will the maverick version install on lucid, being an lts it's going to be around for a while18:48
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leonardrbjf: probably easier to just use the url. the maverick version has new dependencies not present in lucid18:50
lifelessScottK: hi18:50
ScottKHello lifeless.18:50
ScottKLet me see what I can scare up to accept.18:51
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ScottKlifeless: Works.19:02
lifelessScottK: ool19:38
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bjfit's been so long since i've had to log in with a url that i've forgotten how, lp = Launchpad.login_with('lptest', 'https://qastaging.launchpad.net')  isn't working for me20:44
bjfi'm getting the authentication page and then a "Lost something?" page20:44
james_wbjf, service_root="https://api.qastaging.launchpad.net/" I think20:47
james_wthough actually those symptoms sound like something other than getting that argument wrong20:47
bjfjames_w, i think you got it, didn't get the "Lost something" this time20:48
bjfjames_w, indeed, that was it, thanks for the help20:51
=== matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk
arandsinzui: Hi, how I seem to understand it is that things that can go in ubuntu "restricted" may also go in a PPA, and the terms of restricted are much more loose that that of dfsg or osi-approved...21:14
arandAnd that proprietary freeware can in fact go in "restricted", am I wrong here?21:15
sinzuiarand: they can, but I think a commercial license is required. All the ones I know about have a license21:17
arandOk, time to pull the packages down again...21:18
sinzuiarand: I am looking for the actual agreement we signed. wait until I can confirm this21:20
arandsinzui: And this is not just for hosting a full project, rather than a PPA? (As was discussed on the mailing list)21:20
sinzuithat is right. but the rules I know for both are largely ideentical now. There were not a few years ago, but now that you allow users to buy PPAs, I do not think there is a difference21:22
arandWell at the moment https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse Does state: "You understand and agree that any content you upload to PPAs must be freely redistributable by Canonical, and released under a license permitting redistribution free of charge. Acceptable licenses include those which fall under one or more of the following: (...) Ubuntu "main" and "restricted" Component license Policy Compliant.21:24
arandHmm... that "and" there says it must comply with main, basically? In that case you would be very much incompatible with freeware.21:25
sinzuiarand: " Ubuntu "main" and "restricted" Component license Policy Compliant" is not a license, ti is a separate set of rules21:26
arandHmm, in those terms it seems that it's the noncommercialness of the software in question which is incompatible..21:31
arand"While Ubuntu will not charge licence fees for this distribution, you might want to charge to print Ubuntu CDs, or create your own customised versions of Ubuntu which you sell, and should have the freedom to do so." vs "can only redistribute unchanged"21:34
arand...Along with the fact that the software contains several CC-*-NC items..21:38
sinzuiarand: I think the crux of the issue is that PPAs (user archives) are not in main or restricted. Your package could be distributed in restricted, but it is will not be21:38
sinzuiNC is a big no-no since it discriminates against a group21:42
sinzuior purpose21:42
ScottKNC would not  fall into main or restricted compliant.21:44
arandOh, right, well that is definitely a clear incompatibility. Don't think that can be argued much.21:44
ScottKNC is OK for multiverse, but that's it.21:45
arandRight. *sigh*, time to go bug upstream. Though I guess this might take some time (since NC material is not theirs to start with, and needs replacing), anyways, thanks a lot for your time looking into this!21:50
lifelessarand: sinzui: hi21:56
lifelessarand: the PPA ToU are pretty clear to me, they permit pretty much anything21:56
sinzuilifeless: NC violates item 621:57
sinzuilifeless, arand: the NC items violates item 6 of "Ubuntu 'main' and 'restricted' component licence policy", and NC is not accepted by OSI or DFSG21:59
lifelesssinzui: those rules are not required by PPAs22:00
wgrantlifeless: They are.22:00
lifelessnot according to https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse22:00
wgrantlifeless: The only thing allowing non-free software in PPAs is the "Ubuntu 'main' and 'restricted' component licence policy" line.22:00
lifelesswgrant: read the doc22:01
wgrantAre you taking "You understand and agree that any content you upload to PPAs must be freely redistributable by Canonical, and released under a license permitting redistribution free of charge." as allowing NC content?22:01
lifelessfreely redistributable by Canonical is permitted by 'to Share — to copy, distribute and transmit the work'22:02
sinzuiWe do not accept that, and we make it clear it is not accepted on that PPA ToS22:02
wgrantI know the license.22:02
lifelessredistribution free of charge is permitted by ''to Share — to copy, distribute and transmit the work + 'to Remix — to adapt the work'22:02
wgrantsinzui: It's not clear.22:02
lifelesssinzui: no, the PPA ToU help.l.n wiki page *does not say that*22:03
wgrantThe first sentence' of the second paragraph of the ToU seems to allow it.22:03
lifelesswe may wish to change it, but *as written* it clearly permits it22:03
sinzuiI think that is the case, the main/restricted component is not like the licneses/rules listed22:04
lifelesssinzui: the main component is given as *an example*22:04
wgrantSo, as I said a couple of days ago, changing this is somewhat problematic.22:04
lifelesssinzui: not as *a constraint*22:04
wgrantAs it may forbid eg. testing of multiverse packages in PPAs.22:04
sinzuiI do not want to ever get into another argument (ie exception debate) about NC. Until Corporate says Lp allows it, I will not allow it22:04
lifelesssinzui: then we *must* change the wiki page because it clearly permits CC-NC, adobe acrobat and others.22:05
lifeless[well, perhaps not adobe, it might not have the transitiveness we need]22:06
wgrantNo, Adobe Reader is still bad.22:06
sinzuilifeless:  we allow partners to buy exceptions. It is in their contract22:06
lifelesssinzui: our docs say that the constraints are: ' freely redistributable by Canonical, and released under a license permitting redistribution free of charge'22:06
lifelesssinzui: how does CC-BY-NC violate that22:06
ScottKIf that's all it says than NC is fine.22:07
* ScottK thought from the discussion it was redistributable and OK for main or restricted.22:07
lifelesssinzui: are there other docs we should know about (e.g. internal, historical communication with -legal, etc?)22:07
lifelessScottK: https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse is the link we use in the web UI to tell users the rules22:07
sinzuilifeless: I said I will not argue this any more. I will not let people kick be about, call me a hypocrite or a liar again. Someone higher up can changes the rules, but I will not participate in it22:08
wgrantScottK: It seems pretty clearly fine, but I think we all think the doc is wrong.22:09
ScottKwgrant: As I read it the list is examplary and the key point is redistributable by Canonical.22:09
lifelesssinzui: I'm sorry you feel attacked; I'm really not trying to do that. I'm trying to make sure that we don't have a stream of users thinking they can do something we don't want them to because our docs say they can.22:09
ScottKNC certainly is.22:09
wgrantScottK: Yup.22:09
lifelessflacoste: ping22:10
lifelesssinzui: I certainly appreciate the higher-up constraint, so lets start escalating up the mgmt chain.22:10
lifelessjoey: ping - you edited the PPA ToU page, and we have some confusion about it22:10
joeyhowdy lifeless22:11
joeylifeless: this one? https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse22:11
lifelessjoey: hi, we appear to have a mismatch between our internalised model of what can go in a PPA and https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse22:11
lifelessjoey: the PPA docs seem to set two cconstraints and give some exemplary examples that meet those constraints22:12
sinzuilifeless: I do not think anyone is being bad here. It is simply a matter that this issue comes up and the answer has been NC subverts our intent. We corrected other policies where we discovered out intent was subverted22:12
ScottKsinzui: What intent does it subvert?22:12
ScottKThe ability to raise revenue for non-commercial content?22:12
ScottKI doubt that'll be a big money maker.22:12
lifelessScottK: we want to contribute resources to FOSS community participants22:13
lifelessScottK: we don't want to contribute to proprietary efforts; and we offer for-pay services for them22:13
lifelessScottK: this is particularly interested for folk that are dabbling in FOSS, and or transitioning22:13
joeyif I understand correctly, a) you (lifeless) should formulate this in an email to amanda and b) I believe you are correct. NC is not at odds with redistribution22:13
joeylifeless: the main goal there was not to have things in a public PPA which would violate Ubuntu's model22:14
joeylifeless: it may need to be updated though given the success of software center22:15
lifelessjml: are you gone yet ?22:15
wgrantThis matches Ubuntu's model well.22:15
wgrantBut it's not clear how correct that is for LP.22:15
lifelesswgrant: given the confusion, to what are you binding this?22:15
joeylifeless: for history, this is a stevea + joey + amanda  deal with input by mdz via stevea.22:15
joeyhowever I can't say that NC should or can be there. You'd need amanda for that22:17
lifelessjoey: sinzui: I think we need to do two things : We need to discuss the policy aspect, and depending on how that goes we need to double-check with amanda on the NC case.22:17
ScottK"Acceptable licenses include ..." is pretty clear that the list is examplary.22:17
joeyScottK: yeah I bargained for that in case other acceptable licenses came along later22:18
lifelessScottK: this may be a case of left-hand right-hand22:18
ScottKSince NC is allowed in Multiverse, it fits with the "Ubuntu model" too.22:18
joeyScottK: to allow for a case by case evaluatoin22:18
ScottKThe only clear rule given is "Must be redistributable".22:19
joeylifeless: the other thing I should note was that when we wrote the ppa tos, LP was on track to be a commercial application so it might be worth a bit of a rethink22:19
joeyScottK: well.... there is the battlenet  daemon22:19
joeyScottK: in that case we include it even though in some countries, e.g. USA, it's a crime to have it installed22:19
lifelessjoey: 'crime'22:20
joeylifeless: yeah :-)22:20
ScottKCrime or violation of civil law for which one can be sued?22:20
joeyanyway, I hope this helps22:20
joeyScottK: wikipedia has a reasonably good discourse on it22:20
joeyScottK: my concern was whether Canonical would be accused of something, get sued, etc..22:21
ScottKCrime is a word that gets overused.22:21
joeyScottK: was just a use case that was present when we wrote that up22:21
lifelessjoey: sinzui: I will mail the internal list about the policy aspect22:21
lifelessand we'll see where it goes22:21
ScottKAny time you distribute something there's a risk.22:21
wgrantScottK: DMCA, yay.22:21
joeylifeless:  I'm not on there so if you want me to comment on anything in the future, just cc me please22:22
ScottKwgrant: At least we aren't trying to set up a giant border router for 'the safety of the children'.22:22
lifelessarand: if you can take the packages down for a few days - say till monday - we'll get our internal inconsistencies sorted out and come back with a clear message about the constraints.22:22
wgrantScottK: Fair point.22:22
lifelessarand: I don't know whether the current ones will end up ok or not, I suggest not stressing any which way until we have this figured out.22:22
ScottKlifeless: I do hope you come up with something that outsiders can read and determine accurately if their content is acceptable.22:23
lifelessScottK: thats an important metric and why we're having this discussion :)22:23
joeyWe did have a larger list of items but that was shot down when I did the current version22:23
joeyhowever most of that went into the project details page22:24
joeyi.e. select the license this project falls under22:24
joeyI don't recall the reason why it was shot down on the ppa though22:24
joeyprobably not important any longer whatever is was22:24
joeyand lifeless, I know it is more work, but you may also want to go through all the docs at https://help.launchpad.net/Legal to ensure they are still correct22:26
lifelessjoey: thanks :P22:26
joeyafaik, they haven't been touched since I moved off LP22:26
sinzuijoey: archives contain heterogeneous packages. selecting a license does not make sense22:26
sinzuithat is the same reason that distros do not have licenses.22:27
joeyIf you can make that point to legal, more power to you22:27
ScottKIt's a multi-select option in project setup.22:28
ScottKYou can pick multiple licenses.22:28
joeyI would have thought for 99% of all PPAs out there that a multi-check box setup would be acceptable22:28
joeyespecially since one of those boxes is "other"22:28
joeyand in truth, we have private ppas which hold programs which violate the TOS22:29
joeyfor which I point you to cody-somerville for details22:29
joeyin fairness the TOS was meant to cover public PPAs not private PPAs22:30
sinzuijoey: private ppas are exempt. We are happy to ask for money to enable them22:31
lifelessmail sent22:37
micahglifeless: wgrant I've got another copy-packages timeout23:19
wgrantmicahg: Do you have an OOPS ID?23:19
wgrantmicahg: That's bug #733071. I've not seen it that bad for a single source before, though :/23:44
ubot5Launchpad bug 733071 in Launchpad itself "Archive:+copy-packages slow when potential conflicts detected" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73307123:44
micahgwgrant: thanks23:47

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