[00:11] RAOF, present? [00:11] DBO: Yup. [00:12] are you technically a member of the Unity Team? [00:12] I don't believe so. How would I tell? :) [00:13] you're not [00:13] damnich [00:13] was going to steal you for a review [00:13] last minute reviews are where the partay's at [00:13] Heh. What for? === bootri is now known as Omega [01:03] seiflotfy, jcastro, http image loading support in the dash will land in tomorrows release :) [01:09] njpatel: ooh, how does that work? :) [01:11] nhaines, you can send though a icon_hint for a result of "http://" and we'll do the rest (through the magic of GIO) [01:12] njpatel: sounds good for developers. :) What would it be used for? [01:13] best example is a Youtube place, I think [01:13] but it's good for any web-related place tgh, saves a lot of code on the daemon side [01:13] tbh* [01:17] njpatel: oh, I see... you could send an icon_hint that specifies a URL and it automagically appears. :) [01:19] right [01:19] :) [01:19] My first thought was that maybe if you specified a URL in the dash that it might load a thumbnail. [01:28] url as the uri? yeah that would work too but we try and not do too many automatic things, rather present the data as intended from the daemon [01:29] (mostly as every daemon needs something different) [01:33] while trying to compile nux on Maverick, I get this error: [01:33] ../NuxCore/SystemGNU.h:37: fatal error: glib.h: No such file or directory [01:33] compilation terminated. [01:37] njpatel: right, I agree. :) [02:07] njpatel, your up late [02:07] must be beta freeze :) [02:07] kenvandine, :) [02:07] kenvandine, how are things? [02:08] cramming just like you are :) [02:08] heh, nice [02:09] has ted broken *indica* ABI again? [02:09] ;) [02:10] njpatel: no, you are two weeks early [02:10] haha [02:10] njpatel, no... thankfully [02:10] that's called the "ted special" [02:10] (and it should happen when the whole team is on vacation apart from me ;)) [02:10] that was the ted's gift, right ;) [02:11] but i found the indicator-me packaging branch is a disaster... looks like ages ago there was a partial import from a tarball [02:11] so we have been applying a reverse diff on some of the autotools stuff [02:11] urgh [02:11] kenvandine: see why I'm anal on the unity package :-) [02:12] and of course since the file ids match i can't just bzr rm them, because they get removed [02:12] didrocks, indeed... [02:12] i guess this happened when we thought we would move everything to spb [02:12] ted tried to import it [02:12] oh yeah ;) [02:12] that's why I don't let dx touch my packages ;) [02:12] hehe [02:13] gotta watch out for the dx team [02:13] they just have crazy thoughts :) [02:13] well, he thought that was what we wanted [02:13] which for about 2 days i think we did :) [02:13] but now half of the dx packages i maintain are spb [02:13] * kenvandine hates the inconsistency [02:14] anyway... time to go back to unwinding this [02:14] what a mess [02:35] Is it possible to blacklist files from the dash? [02:51] didrocks, you might like this one. the new dropbox icon never disappears. it's always present in fullscreened apps. [02:51] LLStarks: yeah, restack issue of the systray, we'll get that after beta [04:09] - Launcher - Set Launcher 'Hide Animation' to 'Slide only' by default. [04:09] woo. hoo! [04:20] is there a way to cycle through the expo? i see an arrow moving, but not all entries get selected. [04:22] unity should be as friendly to power users as possible [04:25] arrow keys work for me [04:28] I use control + alt + arrow keys to move between workspaces. [04:29] I think he means in expo after you super-w [04:29] ah ok [04:30] looks like it's selecting, just the effect doesn't do a good job highlighting which window you are on. [04:30] * jcastro will just wait for 3.6.8 to publish and check again since the changelog of fixes is a mile long [04:32] sweet. it's like a birthday every week. watching the birth of a gui. [04:32] I was just going to go to bed too, heh [04:33] don't lose sleep over it === chaotic_ is now known as chaotic === _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero === _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero [08:00] morning everybody [08:06] good morning [08:31] good morning [08:31] now unity (3d) can run with nouveau driver thank you a lot devs friends [08:33] good morning [08:35] didrocks, do you remember i was with nouveau driver and unity-2d , but today after update unity (3d) is working quite well [08:35] merci à vous tous [08:35] zniavre: yeah, I remember! nice that it was fixed for your nouveau driver case :) [09:01] Kaleo: around? [09:03] http://i.imgur.com/eXArN.png > i got this with unity is that causes im using nouveau driver or i did wrong ? [09:04] hovering button gives small translucid arrow totally normal [09:06] zniavre: yeah, probably the shader isn't impemented for your card in nouveau [09:07] ok :o) [09:11] didrocks: yep [09:12] Kaleo: I see that you are not using the same icon set directory than unity, should we planned something for OO? [09:12] for instance http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/i386/unity-2d-places/filelist [09:12] basically all /usr/share/unity-2d/places/artwork is a duplicate [09:12] it prevents me right now to do a symlink from the place icons to our asset for consistency [09:13] not a big issue, but will be nice to sort that out for OO [09:18] didrocks: I don't understand [09:18] didrocks: /usr/share/unity-2d/places/artwork has a lot of files unique to Unity 2D [09:18] didrocks: what symlinks do you want to do? [09:18] Kaleo: yeah, but some are in common with /usr/share/unity/3/ [09:19] Kaleo: look at bug #704997 [09:19] Launchpad bug 704997 in Ayatana Design "Launcher: workspace-switcher, files, applications icons need switching to lens/grayscale style" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704997 [09:19] (for files and applications) [09:20] didrocks: we don't ship workspace-switcher, files, applications icons in Unity 2D [09:20] didrocks: we use the ones from the theme and the places [09:22] Kaleo: right, the idea was to point the files and applications icons to finf_more_files and find_more_apps [09:22] find* [09:22] Kaleo: and I can't do that as you don't use the same path [09:28] didrocks: I still don't get it :) [09:28] didrocks: the icons for place entries in the launcher are given by the place [09:28] didrocks: we use that [09:29] kenvandine: if you do a unity place that talks to libgwibber and let me tweet from the dash i'm gonna fly over and kiss you [09:29] didrocks: the icons in the dash result group headers as well [09:29] didrocks: the icons in the home screen of the dash are static [09:29] didrocks: is there any plan to change those? [09:29] Kaleo: the place icon is changing [09:29] and design want that we use the same icon than the one in the dash [09:30] it just makes sense to refer in the .place file the main asset icon [09:30] Kaleo: with latest unity-place-files you can find your favorite folders from the dash as well as open urls; i tested it in u2d as well and it works like a charm. Awesome :-) [09:31] Kaleo: and it makes little sense that you are duplicating the whole icon asset for just few unity-2d changes [09:31] Kaleo: you should take those in unity-common so that we don't duplicate icons [09:32] anyway, the current state is broken for me, so I have to duplicate the icon a third time in the user tree :/ [09:32] which is suboptimal [09:37] kamstrup: fantastic! [09:37] didrocks: again, we do not duplicate the whole icon asset [09:37] didrocks: at current I think we have 4 duplicate icons [09:37] Kaleo: /usr/share/unity-2d/places/artwork/find_files.png [09:37] if we take that one [09:37] didrocks: yes [09:38] someone having unity 3D and unity 2D will have: [09:38] didrocks: which we do duplicate [09:38] /usr/share/unity/3/find_files.png [09:38] /usr/share/unity-2d/places/artwork/find_files.png [09:38] and now /usr/share/unity/themes/files.png [09:39] all of 3 being the same icon [09:39] so a refresh need 3 updates [09:39] didrocks: so, that is unfortunate [09:39] Kaleo: yeah, that's my point :) [09:39] Kaleo: can we plan working on that for OO? [09:39] didrocks: we definitely plan on getting rid of /usr/share/unity-2d/places/artwork/find_files.png at some point [09:39] didrocks: yes [09:39] didrocks: but for /usr/share/unity/themes/files.png [09:39] Kaleo: do you need a bug to track it? [09:39] didrocks: I believe it's a different resolution [09:39] Kaleo: my goal is just to point to the "common" file in the .place file [09:40] didrocks: I don't think it's possible because of the difference in resolution === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|errand [09:40] didrocks: you don't want a 128x128 to be loaded by the launcher [09:40] Kaleo: right now, the design team just provide this asset [09:41] Kaleo: they don't rescale it [09:41] so we load a copy of the 128x128 icon [09:41] didrocks: so, we have to open gimp and rescale it [09:41] but I totally agree with you [09:41] well, "we" beeing me again… [09:41] didrocks: it should be 48x48 [09:42] didrocks: thanks :) [09:42] vim applications.png [09:42] -> bad start, just after a 4 horus of sleep ;) [09:42] didrocks: go sleep! [09:43] Kaleo: well, ui freeze is today at any time… [09:43] Kaleo: so we have to do that for the late change [09:45] didrocks: good luck [10:04] didrocks: ! if I create stable branches of all my projects, and go bananas on trunk will that screw over your packaging workflow or can you easily adapt? [10:04] kamstrup: that should work with this, at least, can we try with one project first to ensure udd doesn't go crazy? [10:06] didrocks: ok, so I create the branch, add do some trivial commit on trunk or something? And then you can do a dry run or something? [10:06] kamstrup: exactly, SF reference is a plus, of course :) [10:08] didrocks: SF reference? [10:09] kamstrup: science fiction reference in commit messages :) [10:09] didrocks: ohhh, right, no need to tell me that :-) [10:09] :) === daker_ is now known as daker [10:22] didrocks: ok, danger ahead. lp:libunity is now dev target (pushed rev53 with an updated README there) and lp:libunity/3.0 is the stable series for Natty [10:22] kamstrup: excellent, we'll do some tests with it then ;) [10:23] didrocks: ok, I touch nothing until I hear from you again :-) [10:23] kamstrup: oh you can, we will get a way to sync it back :-) === API is now known as Guest45566 [10:23] kamstrup: TBH, not sure I can play enough with it today, but tomorrow sounds fine [10:24] didrocks: no changes pending anyway, so chill dude :-) [10:24] ;) === Guest45566 is now known as apinheiro === doodoo is now known as Dart [10:29] didrocks, i get poked since a while about https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/natty/metacity/metacity-fix-717216/+merge/52199 ... would you mind taking a quick look before i merge [10:29] Ubuntu bug 52199 in darcs (Ubuntu) "darcs-server cache dir" [Low,Fix released] [10:29] Got a little problem: Tooltips on unity launcher does not respect font settings and text gets truncated if changed to bold/medium etc. (Terminal is Termina, Gedit is Gedi etc) [10:30] ogra_: hum, I didn't test it, did you? IIRC, I asked you to report it upstream as well and add the refer in the patch header before merging [10:31] ogra_: you're taking for of metacity now, I didn't touch it for a long time ;) [10:35] kamstrup, dash supports loading html icons now :) [10:35] Also there is this thing in unity 3.6.8 http://i.imgur.com/p8wke.png [10:35] Dart, yeah, I'm not sure who broke that [10:37] aaaah [10:37] they do it twice now [10:37] I'll fix it in trunk [10:38] njpatel, also should i report a bug for this problem: Tooltips on unity launcher does not respect font settings and text gets truncated if changed to bold/medium etc. (Terminal is Termina, Gedit is Gedi etc [10:38] Dart, yes please! that's not acceptable [10:39] ok [10:39] njpatel: how is it done twice? [10:39] didrocks, LauncherIcon does it now too, before it didn't [10:39] which is fine, but it needed to be tested :) [10:39] (the tooltip) [10:39] njpatel: oh ok :) [10:40] njpatel: I'm fixing this [10:40] there is another markup fix to do [10:40] didrocks, fixed in trunk :) [10:40] njpatel: argh, you're too fast :) [10:40] fixing the other markup issue then :p [10:42] njpatel: btw, didn't look where you changed it (in middle of an upgrade), but I did it the right place, isn't it? it's just the PlaceLauncherIcon which don't need to do it? [10:43] (we use "et" in the french translation, not & btw) [10:43] didrocks, right [10:45] hey all [10:50] njpatel: rock on dude :-D [10:52] njpatel: do you think it's feasible for any of the community heroes to implement some custom renderers? [10:52] njpatel: like ripping out the homescreen logic to a renderer, and maybe the "list" renderer based on the existing default renderer? === MacSlow|errand is now known as MacSlow [10:55] kamstrup, I'm going to try and add list, but I don't think it'll be super easy for community atm [10:56] njpatel: ok, or maybe your prio should just be to make room for it, and then we take our chances some community all stars do the rest? [10:57] njpatel: but of course I don't know the unity internals good enough to give you any good advice here :-D [10:57] didrocks, i didnt test it and actually only look at it today for the first time [10:57] kamstrup, yeaaaaaaah, it's just I'm worried about landing code which does things like close to release [10:57] njpatel: no worries, you just write, then I merge it ;-O [10:57] heh [10:59] 2011-03-17 13:15:14 ogra didrocks, could you give a thumbs up on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/natty/metacity/metacity-fix-717216/revision/105 ? [10:59] Ubuntu bug 105 in Baz (deprecated) "baz diff fails when unrelated revision inaccessible" [Medium,Won't fix] [10:59] ogra_: you did ^^ [10:59] same channel :) [10:59] aww [10:59] k [11:00] njpatel: but otherwise don't make too big a deal of it, seems that people are writing places anyway, and with a little nimbleness one can shoehorn most things into the current default. We are doing that ourselves anyway! :-) [11:00] session to test compiz session handling [11:00] restart* [11:00] kamstrup, yeah, I think this is going to be more of a fun thing for me as it's been a crazy week, but only if no other priorities show up, of course [11:05] didrocks: thanks for your help last night :) [11:13] njpatel: html loading in dash rocks, thank you! http://ubuntuone.com/p/jDq/ [11:14] Davidc_3, hah, awesome! [11:44] smspillaz: didrocks: so, I have to ask, why are we usingthe gconf backend for compiz? surely for our needs it would be best to have a flat file config for which plugins to load [11:45] robtaylor: because the backend is picking also the gnome keybindings [11:45] I also think it would be good to noticable fail and drop back to unity 2d if anything fails [11:45] like switch to ws [11:45] Hello. [11:46] so, we have to use what GNOME uses :) and in 2.32, it's gconf [11:46] didrocks: right,but that's not ccps, right [11:46] didrocks: ? [11:46] robtaylor: yeah, but ccp don't make the difference between gnome keybindings which are wrapped by compiz (like switch ws shortcut) and plugins settings [11:46] didrocks: that's fixable :) [11:47] robtaylor: not really worth it and not in this timeline [11:47] robtaylor: we will move to gsettings next cycle [11:47] and create a gsettings backend then [11:47] (a sane gsettings backend, not like the gconf one) [11:47] didrocks:*nod* perhaps, I think https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/729597 is a race condition on reading gconf [11:47] Ubuntu bug 729597 in unity (Ubuntu) "[natty-alpha3] [LiveCD] compiz crash on boot, unity fails to start, installation impossible" [Undecided,Confirmed] [11:48] didrocks: hard to show that though, just a gut feeling [11:48] not tha reading gconf should be racy [11:48] its some sort of weird start-of day bug [11:49] robtaylor: we fixed before alpha3 all gconf races we found though. Can be rather an opengl init issue as well [11:50] didrocks: one small fix that would make sense is to error sensibly is *any* of the configured plugins fail to load. at the moment it 'gracefully degrades' which mean we have an explosion of error cases [11:50] s/is/if/ [11:51] robtaylor: that's more something to discuss with the compiz dev. What we do right now is doing the check before [11:51] to register right Required components [11:51] didrocks: and maybe one hacky short-termist fix is to just hardcode all the plugins we expect to load in main.cpp? [11:52] didrocks: hmm, where does that check happen? [11:53] robtaylor: that was something we discussed weeks ago but it didn't happen. It's too late right now for natty [11:53] didrocks: why? we're not in hard code freeze yet are we? [11:53] robtaylor: it's some kind of a feature [11:54] we are in feature freeze for 2 weeks [11:54] didrocks: naa, its bel-and-braces workaround [11:54] didrocks: we can't go out with machines randomly failing to start a desktop [11:55] didrocks: there's a nasty bug in there somewhere which needs fixing for release. I can repro it here easily. [11:55] robtaylor: TBH, I prefer right now that we fix crashes :) [11:55] didrocks: the problem is reproing it reliably - its a heisenbug [11:56] didrocks: this is a crash [11:56] robtaylor: can you check that with dbarth? kind of pingomachine there [11:56] didrocks: well, as far as the user is concerned at least - its reported as a crash, compiz exits [11:56] just feels that change big and risky [11:56] and don't integrate with profile handling [11:56] and such [11:56] didrocks: profile handling? [11:57] robtaylor: we are using profile in compiz [11:57] sorry, I really don't have the time to explain that today :) [11:58] didrocks: np, later [11:58] ttyl :) [11:59] didrocks: lincompizconfig profiles, right? [12:00] robtaylor: yes [12:01] didrocks: ta. i'll try and get a deeper understanding. I think we do need to seriously consider some option - i'll keep trying to get a log for 729597 [12:02] robtaylor: please, try to check with dbarth before and focus on the priority list :) [12:02] didrocks: *nod* will do, of course, just flagging it today [12:02] didrocks: testcases next up === nigelbabu is now known as nigelb === daker_ is now known as daker === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch === yofel_ is now known as yofel [12:38] !seen mvo [12:38] I have no seen command [12:42] kamstrup, I believe Davidc_3 is doing it, but he's offline right now [12:42] njpatel: sure looks sweet [12:42] yeah, it looks awesome [12:45] didrocks: so, managed to find the crasher for 729597 - its a Glibmm crash somewhere in plugin initialisation [12:46] didrocks: quick workaround is to move the session registration to before plugin load so gnome-session restarts us [12:47] robtaylor: check with sam and what we get that with, please. Changing the order added a lot of issues recently [12:47] smspillaz: about? [12:47] didrocks: i'll test it out === nerochiaro is now known as nerochiaro_away [12:48] robtaylor: ensure you are using our package [12:48] with our distro patches :) [12:48] didrocks: apt-get sourceing now ;) [12:48] nice :) [12:48] Hi,just updated my natty.Boom unity is gone.Any idea? [12:49] elricL: how does it look? you login in just get wallpaper? [12:49] robtaylor, yup [12:49] I started up gnome-panel [12:49] elricL:if you right click, do you get anything? [12:49] ah, ok, so compiz is running then, just no unity [12:50] yeah,the usual menu [12:50] yeah [12:50] elricL: ok, install compizconfig-settings-manager [12:50] even compiz effects work. [12:50] Its ther [12:50] kamstrup, pucker up! [12:50] elricL: run ccsm, then make sure unity is switched on [12:50] Unity plugin is checked [12:50] kamstrup, i plan to :) [12:50] hmm [12:50] kenvandine: !? [12:51] elricL: i'm stcuk for advice then. it's a curious one [12:51] kenvandine: oh, about the gwibber place? :-) [12:51] yup :) [12:51] elricL: can you edit /usr/share/xsession/gnome.session and and --debug to the Exec line? [12:51] one of the things i hope to hack on before UDS [12:51] elricL: then restart gdm [12:52] kamstrup, i fixed dee... it was packaging [12:52] kenvandine: i also see you got to the bottom of the overrides issue with Dee.py. Just awesome. I see places cropping up left and right :-D [12:52] rofl, maybe he can't =) [12:52] kamstrup, :) [12:53] kamstrup, i need to figure out a few things about places though... but i should get something up and running quickly that displays your streams [12:53] kamstrup, i suppose i would need to create a new render if i want it to be less tile like right? [12:53] elricL: wb [12:53] kenvandine: although, that would probably require the "list" renderer I've been chatting with njpatel about [12:53] kamstrup, exactly [12:54] robtaylor, tried a reboot. No help [12:54] so that doesn't exist yet right? [12:54] kenvandine: seems we think the same today :-) [12:54] kenvandine: right [12:54] kamstrup, well get on that :) [12:54] kenvandine: I think I can maybe free up a little time today to look into it [12:54] can we add a renderer without altering the packages in main? [12:54] elricL: cool, so as i was saying, can you edit /usr/share/xsession/gnome.session and and --debug to the Exec line? [12:55] njpatel: do you think it's realistic for me to take a stab at some place renderer footwork? [12:55] elricL: then sudo service gdm restart and log in again [12:55] elricL: then pastbein ~/.xsession-errors [12:55] kenvandine: sorry, no... That has been a long term plan, but time hasn't allowed for it [12:55] ugh [12:55] robtaylor, just a sec. [12:55] bummer, so if we want it for natty users... we'll need to get it quickly and an exception :/ [12:55] kamstrup, I think leave it at least 'till Monday, as I do need to fix some things and th sizing/spacing algorithm will change slightly [12:56] kenvandine: njpatel and i have grandiose plans, but seems like an Oneiric feature at this point [12:56] kamstrup, if I don't do it by then feel free to have a pop :) [12:56] njpatel: okidoke. kenvandine ^^ [12:56] i was hoping to get something in a ppa by the time natty releases [12:56] elricL: np [12:56] kenvandine, kamstrup I'm sure it'll be okay to land right after beta, we just need to give didrocks a lot of beer first [12:56] hehe [12:57] njpatel: he's french - vine and cheese [12:57] True [12:57] and bread [12:57] also the new workspace icon is not good [12:57] * kamstrup feels suddenly hungry [12:57] looks like a terminal [12:57] +1 [12:57] njpatel: I think we need to go to stronger alcohol seeing what's coming :) [12:57] heh [12:57] the french can drink beer, i've witnessed it :) [12:58] can we stop talking about beer?! [12:58] * kenvandine does his morning upgrade... crosses fingers [12:58] * kamstrup is getting thirsty === njpatel is now known as njpatel_ [12:58] * kenvandine is just getting his first cup of coffee for the day [12:58] kamstrup: well, if you want to do an awesome commit, you need some help in b*** ? ;) [12:59] robtaylor, no file gnome.session , have a gnome.desktop though [13:00] elricL: oh, sorry, my typo - gnome.desktop [13:01] didrocks: i don't think i have a single line of code in bamf? [13:01] i mean b*** [13:03] kamstrup: I was avoiding to pronounce bee* to not get your even more thirsty but yeah, you got confuse, just too dx-intoxicated ;) [13:03] didrocks: doh! :-) [13:06] kenvandine: oh debhelper does the right think and not cdbs? [13:06] kenvandine: well, I think it's a python-support/central dh_python thing in fact [13:07] robtaylor, http://pastebin.com/hVZb0bMe. [13:07] robtaylor, I think I found the cause of the error. [13:08] latest unity wont build === m_conley_away is now known as m_conley [13:11] elricL: dunno. it certainly looks like compiz is just plain old not loading the unity plugin [13:11] didrocks: see ^^ :P [13:12] robtaylor, the error when i try to make. http://pastebin.com/FdGrkWhD [13:12] didrocks, right... [13:12] ultimately if i had just switched to python-support it would have fixed it [13:12] elricL: some plugin won't load because there was an ABI break in compiz, have you done partial distr-upgrade? [13:12] but i am coming to like debhelper more [13:13] elricL: not sure what the 'text' plugin is, but its package isn't refreshed with latest compiz [13:13] njpatel_, fonts in places/dash are looking awesome now... thanks! [13:13] didrocks, I did a full upgrade. [13:13] didrocks, any idea how to fix it? [13:13] elricL: didn't it tells "will remove this package?" [13:14] elricL: ensure you have latest compiz-plugins-main, and latest compiz-plugins-extra (if latest installed) [13:14] didrocks, I just did apt-get upgrade and went to sleep. [13:15] elricL: weird, apt-cache policy compiz-plugins-main [13:15] apt-cache policy compiz [13:15] apt-cache policy compiz-plugins-extra [13:15] and: apt-cache policy unity [13:16] elricL: and compiz-core, for good luck ;) [13:16] njpatel_: PlacesResultsController::MakeThingsLookNice() Love that ;-) [13:16] compiz should be 1:0.9.4-0ubuntu3, unity should be 3.6.0-0ubuntu1 [13:17] http://pastebin.com/ivSe9tDu [13:18] robtaylor: you are on the old compiz [13:18] elricL: looks good [13:19] elricL: apt-cache policy compiz-core [13:19] didrocks: oh, interesting, good catch. weird, i'm sure i updatated that [13:19] 1:0.9.4git20110322-0ubuntu3 ? [13:19] didrocks, exactly [13:20] elricL: all looks good for that [13:20] What bugs me most is the fact i cant even seem to make unity [13:20] elricL: oh you try to build it from source [13:20] hum [13:21] elricL: did you configure (cmake ..) just before? [13:21]