[10:45] <coz_> hey all
[13:11] <coz_> hey guys
[13:11] <zniavre> coz_,  good afternoon
[13:11] <coz_> zniavre,  ah afternoon guy :)  its morning here  :)
[13:12] <zniavre> :o)
[17:19] <coz_> are they serious??   http://i.imgur.com/8v7rv.jpg
[17:20] <coz_>     " it would probably be inappropriate to over-emphasize
[17:20] <coz_>     narwhal graphics."
[17:21] <coz_> on top of which that image is far too busy for desktop wallpaper
[17:21] <coz_> who here is actually on the design team????
[17:22] <coz_> just saw this referred to on the mailing list,, and geez,, guys,,, as much as I said I wasnt going to get involved,, "Come on!"
[17:36] <coz_> just saw this referred to on the mailing list,, and geez,, guys,,, as much as I said I wasnt going to get involved,, "Come on!"
[17:36] <coz_>  are they serious??   http://i.imgur.com/8v7rv.jpg
[17:36] <coz_> who here is actually on the design team????
[17:42] <coz_> I was under the impression that ,, since it been long standing,,, no logos no animals  ,,,yes?
[17:42] <coz_> ah nevermind  I dont care
[17:43] <thorwil> lol
[17:43] <thorwil> coz_: make up your mind :)
[17:43] <coz_> :)
[17:43] <coz_> thorwil,  i know :)  it just really irritated me when I saw that
[17:43] <thorwil> coz_: but who's the "they" you mention?
[17:44] <coz_> thorwil,   the desing team specifically,.,, I was under the impression that it would not be a good idea to have narwhols on the image,, or at least  emphasize that
[17:45] <coz_> rather a good original image ,, although I have seen a few with narwhols that looked interesting
[17:46] <coz_> anyway that image is far too busy for a desktop
[17:46] <thorwil> coz_: you should realize by now, that the list is left to whoever gets active there, with apparently nobody from the design team paying close attention. and well, they shouldn't have to
[17:47] <coz_> thorwil,  ok understood, but according to that mailing list omgubuntu is saying that image is one of t he defaults
[17:47] <coz_> I better check it out
[17:48] <coz_> oh geez it is one of the defaults :(
[17:50] <coz_> well ok I may be a bit taken back by this,, but if i didnt complain on occasion,, I could have a stoke or something lol
[18:03] <coz_> ok just checked out the natty wallpaper package,,  I see that this image fits in the overall... and it is not default.. but i would have liked to have seen more variations on narwhal images than just 2
[18:04] <coz_> there , I have gone through "shock"  "confusion"  "anger" and finally "acceptance"  lol
[18:05] <hyperair> that sounds like some weird fellow's model of acculturatoin
[18:05] <hyperair> acculturation*
[18:06] <coz_> hyperair,  having had to look that up :)  not quite :)
[18:06] <hyperair> eh?
[18:06] <coz_> hyperair,  well more like the stages of grief
[18:06] <coz_> minus bargaining since that is not possible here
[18:06] <hyperair> i remember having to learn that in this ridiculous elective i had, "coping with cultural transition"
[18:07] <coz_> hyperair,  ah ok
[18:07] <hyperair> well actually acculturation went something like this: first is euphoria, second is rejection/anger/confusion/shock, and then finally acceptance
[18:07] <coz_> hyperair,  so nearly the same as overcoming grief
[18:08] <hyperair> heh
[18:08] <hyperair> more like when you encounter a new culture, you first notice all the cool stuff, and that's euphoria
[18:08] <hyperair> then you notice all the negative stuff and you experience grief
[18:08] <hyperair> and then you finally learn to accept it
[18:09] <coz_> stages of grief,,, denial,,anger,,bargaining,, depression, acceptance
[18:09] <coz_> sounds too neatly packages to me :)
[18:09] <coz_> packaged
[18:10] <hyperair> apt-get remove denial anger bargaining depression && apt-get install acceptance
[18:10] <hyperair> ;-)
[18:10] <coz_> there we go :)
[18:10] <coz_> or  apt-get autoremove --purge acceptance  and get on with life
[18:10] <hyperair> or rather, apt-get install acceptance conflicts with denial anger bargaining and depression ;-)
[18:10] <hyperair> lol
[18:11] <coz_> hyperair,  sounds so ,, regimented,,,yes?  I cant truly accept that all people behave this way or go through the same stages
[18:11] <hyperair> heh
[18:11] <hyperair> well =p
[18:12] <coz_> although I did demonstrate similar behavior with that image,, sped up of course :)
[18:13] <coz_> ah but we are subject to the inevitable "acceptance' here,,  by the borg.. resistance is futile
[18:14]  * hyperair has never really enjoyed ubuntu's default themes
[18:14] <hyperair> elementary++
[18:14] <coz_> hyperair,  I agree,,well there were a few and did like some of the animal wallpapers
[18:14] <coz_> hyperair,  I really truly dont like elemetary other than the icons
[18:15] <coz_> if that was what you meant
[18:15] <hyperair> =\
[18:15] <hyperair> i like the theme
[18:16] <coz_> hyperair,  I know..many people do... I just step back and wonder why this "mac"  path that seems to be all over the place
[18:16] <hyperair> there are things in elementary that are different from mac that make it uniquely elementary imo
[18:17] <coz_> hyperair,  I know... but one of the people there once told me...after mentioning the mac clone appearance,, "apple did it right!  why bother to change it!"
[18:17] <coz_> hyperair,  that completely confused me
[18:17] <Islington> did we talk about the how once again the "communtiy" has led to a shit wallpaper on the cd?
[18:18]  * hyperair => reboot
[18:18] <coz_> Islington,  well not all of them are bad have you seen the package?
[18:18] <Islington> no we all know which one I am refering to
[18:18] <coz_> Islington,  oh that real busy one?
[18:18] <Islington> the one that looks like a 3yr old on acid, imagining 3 narwhals
[18:19] <coz_> :)  well someone created it and many will like it...
[18:20] <coz_> Islington,  also,, "community"  i generally define as  "user contributions"  I dont see this as a community feax pas
[18:20] <Islington> sigh next time I contribute to this, I will spend significantly less effort, if the barrier is that low
[18:20] <coz_> faux
[18:21] <coz_> Islington,  well not sure it can be  worked around... no one here,, as far as I know,, makes the decision about images or anything for that matter
[18:21] <Islington> which is dumb, as hell. We warned the team that shit like this would happen
[18:22] <coz_> what puzzles me,, is that the design team has not taken seriously that idea that ubuntu can be as uniquely designed as mac.. something specific to ubuntu ,, creative,, appealing,, real nice to work with
[18:23] <Islington> the bad illustration wallpaper taints that whole category; not to mention its creator gets to choose the next time, if the same rules still hold
[18:23] <coz_> Islington,  oh?
[18:23] <coz_> ah oh
[18:23] <coz_> I didnt know that
[18:23] <Islington> I beleive that is how it works with the photog walls
[18:23] <coz_> Islington,  that's an interesting revelation for me
[18:24] <coz_> Islington,  so what is the design teams participation in this then?
[18:24] <Islington> who knows, call me sour but I official have stopped caring
[18:24] <coz_> :)
[18:25] <coz_> Islington,  ah yes me too,, lets start a new group,, ubuntu-apathy  :)
[18:25] <Islington> :) now I have to package nathan for release on launch day
[18:28] <coz_> Islington,  which is "nathan"?
[18:30] <Islington> er this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/islington/5459034272/sizes/l/
[18:31] <coz_> Islington,  this is yours?
[18:32] <Islington> yes
[18:33] <coz_> Islington,  svg originally?
[18:34] <Islington> still is actually :) pushing pixels is for peasants
[18:34] <coz_> :)
[18:34] <coz_> damn fingers
[18:35] <Islington> lol
[18:35] <coz_> Islington,  I dont know...pixel pushing can result in quite nice "painterly" effects
[18:36] <Islington> yeah there are definite benefits, smooth gradients for one; still it feels so tedious after vector work.
[18:37] <coz_> Islington,  sometimes  it can be,,  here is an example of a digital piece I did  ,,all pixel pushing :)   http://www.flickr.com/photos/coz_/5540685576/lightbox/
[18:37] <Islington> coz_: Very Nice indeed
[18:38] <coz_> Islington,  to get the best "natural media"  look and feel... svg is not the way  at least I havent found a way in inkscape yet
[18:38] <coz_> I suppose its possible with multiple layers, gradients...etc   but  the file would be huge
[18:38] <Islington> afaik the pencil sketch is the only realistic media thing I know on inkscape
[18:39] <coz_> Islington, that may be correct,, I love svg  but  my background is in painting/sculpture so I tend towards painter effects ,, one day I will do it in inkscape :)
[18:40] <Islington> have you tried krita?
[18:41] <Islington> I am out of shape in actual sketching, but its much better than gimp at some things
[18:41] <coz_> damn fingers again
[18:41] <Islington> lol
[18:41] <coz_> Islington,  i have had it installed,, but didnt take enough time to learn it well
[18:42] <Islington> I had to learn it, only thing that I know that supports 32bit
[18:42] <coz_> ah ok
[18:42] <coz_> Islington,  I will reinstall it then,, and take more time with it.
[18:43] <Islington> if you are ubuntu it may be a bit heavy
[18:44] <Islington> qt and all that
[18:45] <Islington> http://krita.org/component/content/article/10-news/72-krita-in-march-2011
[18:45] <coz_> mm
[18:45] <coz_> Islington,  yes everytime i see screenshots of krita I install it and then forget to deal with it :)
[18:46] <Islington> lol
[18:46] <coz_> Islington,  and yes I am on ubuntu,  but I also have kde libraries installed on gnome... I do use a few kde things including a few games
[18:47] <thorwil> sadly i tend to experience performance and stability issues every time i look at krita
[18:47] <coz_> thorwil, oh?  mmm
[18:48] <coz_> I wonder if a development ppa would be any better?
[18:48] <thorwil> i tried both packaged and build from source at some point
[18:49] <coz_> thorwil,  oh that's dissapointing
[18:49] <Islington> I have better luck on build
[18:49] <coz_> mm  ok let me search for krita source
[18:49] <Islington> but occasionally it will do ridiculous things
[18:49] <thorwil> so if i want a decent brush engine, i pick mypaint
[18:49] <coz_> is it currently being maintained?
[18:49] <coz_> thorwil,  absolutely mypaint
[18:49] <Islington> thirded
[18:49] <coz_> thorwil,  it is becoming  very robust
[18:50] <thorwil> but it tends to not take that long before i miss selection tools or something else mypaint doesn't have
[18:50] <Islington> I find it easier just to do a rough sketch in there and import the png into inkscape
[18:51] <darkmatter> i use artrage more than mypain. prolly because my paint has a horrendous ui (even though the app itself rocks)
[18:51] <coz_>  darkmatter  for sure and I know they realize this
[18:51] <coz_> darkmatter,  the brush menuing system is  way bad
[18:52] <darkmatter> yes
[18:52] <coz_> darkmatter,   I know they are aware of this... it s hould be in a nice catagorized menu at least
[18:52] <coz_> similar to Corel Painter's
[18:52] <coz_> darkmatter,  looking up artrage
[18:53] <Islington> I used to use a pirated copy of alias sketchbook over wine. it worked really well, and that interface was amazing
[18:54] <coz_> Islington,  I have an older copy of that one... if you mean the semi round brush menu?
[18:54] <darkmatter> coz_: ut runs awesome in wine. has a free and nonfree version, and a 'palette' ui (tablet compatible basically). the main reason I use it is because it has a "workbench" feel
[18:54] <coz_> cool looking it up now
[18:54] <Islington> yeah in the corner coz_ and you just have to use swipe with pen to pick something
[18:55] <darkmatter> Islington: I'd use all alias (well, now autodesk) products if I could afford the licensing... sketchbook, designer, maya.. nom nom
[18:55] <coz_> Islington,  yeah it was something new at least... my favorite natural media application used to be corel Painter,, until mypaint reached it level of maturity  althogh painter is about t he best around
[18:57] <coz_> of course sketchbook pro is now owned by autodesk so that will NEVER have a linux port
[18:57] <Islington> lol
[19:10] <coz_> again with the fingers
[19:11] <coz_> darkmatter,  i assume you already have seen autodesk pricing?
[19:13] <darkmatter> coz_: that's a silly question. I wouldn't have mentioned  the 'can't afford' bit if I hadn't :P
[19:13] <coz_> lol
[19:14] <coz_> darkmatter,  I have not seen that kind of outrageous pricing for any application
[19:14] <darkmatter> indeed
[19:14] <coz_> I have the autodesk suite here,, give to me by my nephew   total cost  $75,000
[19:15] <coz_> I could live comfortably in europe for several years on that
[19:17] <coz_> althoug its an older version  I dont use it or like it and the fact that it comes on several "cd's"  not dvd's  angers me for that price
[19:18] <coz_> let me check current prices
[19:19] <coz_> oh!  they sort of dropped the price on autocad  to just under $5,000 ,, wow
[19:19] <coz_> :)
[19:22] <darkmatter> haha
[20:14] <genii-around> Hello. Is there yet a Narwhal logo which will be for 11.04? I would light to put the image on CD's as we burn them for an upcoming release party