[00:01] <hamitron> bah, just cba
[00:01] <shauno> ?
[00:01] <hamitron> ya know the feeling when there are things you want to do
[00:01] <hamitron> just can't be bothered
[00:01] <hamitron> :
[00:01] <hamitron> ?
[00:02] <shauno> it is midnight, which always makes procrastination a sane option
[00:04] <dwatkins> Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow?
[00:07] <hamitron> so true, only I seem to be doing that most days with some stuff
[00:07] <hamitron> ;)
[00:13] <dwatkins> I have a long list of stuff to do, and sometimes I manage to make it smaller, but most days it just gets longer and I do the stuff that's urgent. I should really set aside time to do the less urgent stuff.
[00:13] <dwatkins> In other news, I require sleep, be seeing you :)
[00:15] <hamitron> laters
[00:15] <hamitron> :)
[00:25] <directhex> hamitron, depression?
[00:30] <hamitron> directhex: don't think so, just a lack of interest
[00:30] <hamitron> and lack of urgancy
[00:31] <hamitron> things that don't need doing and I hate doing, often never get done
[00:43] <shauno> grr.  don't like sites that automatically try to submit a textbox when I hit enter
[00:44] <shauno> leaving a comment on stack exchange, I had to go back and edit it 3 times because I do tend to type in well-formed paragraphs :/
[00:45] <hamitron> :\
[00:45] <hamitron> anyone tried CAELinux?
[00:51] <shauno> never heard of it
[00:56] <hamitron> based on ubuntu with loads of nice engineering stuff
[00:58] <shauno> never understood why things like that put the effort into being their own distro.  surely it'd be easier to have a repo & a metapackage
[01:01] <hamitron> yeh
[01:02] <hamitron> I can't find the mini.iso download page
[01:02] <hamitron> :/
[01:03] <hamitron> google \o/
[01:04] <HazRPG> hmm, currently trying to make my own calibre news recipe
[01:46] <HazRPG> woot!
[01:46] <HazRPG> I think I may have just made my first calibre recipe!
[01:47] <shauno> \o/
[01:50] <HazRPG> shauno: you got an eReader of some description?
[01:50] <shauno> nope
[01:51] <shauno> was considering getting an ipad when they come out on friday, but decided I'd be better off replacing my laptop first
[01:52] <shauno> (still tempted, but gotta wait to see what the taxman does to me first)
[01:53] <hamitron> he will rape you like normal ;/
[01:53] <shauno> worse than normal :(  my next pay packet is for 10 weeks worth of salary
[01:54] <hamitron> :/
[01:54] <hamitron> I'm considering getting a new bike
[01:54] <shauno> which means I get to pay the "harder, harder" bracket on atleast half of that
[01:54] <hamitron> motorbike that is
[01:56] <hamitron> I have a small 125cc that uses hardly any fuel, but is slow... and a classic bigger bike that uses more than a car
[01:56] <hamitron> thinking I could get something to go somewhere between the 2 for general use
[02:00] <HazRPG> ouch
[02:50] <HazRPG> hmm... having a hard time working this out :/
[02:50] <HazRPG> managed to make a recipe to download planet ubuntu-uk
[02:50] <HazRPG> however, I would like it to parse the author's name though
[02:51] <HazRPG> of the article, and maybe a link for those that have internet-enabled readers
[02:51] <HazRPG> (link to the actual article, or even the author's site if one is in the RSS)
[02:52] <ali1234> why don't you use the rss feed
[03:42] <shauno> slow night :/
[04:01] <HazRPG> ali1234: I am, but calibre's automagic way doesn't automatically include the author's name nor link
[04:01] <HazRPG> it just seems to ignore those tags
[04:01] <HazRPG> I've gave up on that for now though
[04:02] <HazRPG> currently trying to filter through and remove crud from an arabic news feed
[04:02] <HazRPG> because I really do want to improve my arabic reading skills
[04:03] <HazRPG> considering it takes me 3hrs to read maybe a 5 page kids book
[04:03] <HazRPG> so far looking good, managed to get rid of A LOT of the random crap  that seems to get placed around
[04:04] <HazRPG> can't seem to get rid of the tweet link, because it doesn't use a regular CSS expression in the html
[04:04] <HazRPG> instead of using a class, etc
[04:04] <HazRPG> its using the style tag for just that one section, and seems like they just c&p-ed code for that bit
[04:05] <HazRPG> ... I bet you after all this work I find out that when it does compile properly that it doesn't work on my kindle due to lack of fonts :/
[04:06] <HazRPG> *facepalm* it doesn't pick up the arabic fonts (just tested before I go further with this)
[04:14] <shauno> I tend to just use google reader, but it doesn't handle duplicates nicely
[04:16] <HazRPG> shauno: you mean duplicate feeds?
[04:17] <shauno> well, specifically with planets, it's perfectly normal for the same post to show up on more than one
[04:18] <shauno> so if someone's aggregated on more than one planet, I'll get their post multiple times
[04:18] <HazRPG> I worded that badly, I mean two two of the same RSS feeds being added by mistake (e.g. I subscribe to PUUK, then manually added it because I thought it wasn't already there)
[04:18] <HazRPG> oh, I see
[04:19] <HazRPG> I don't think any RSS reader removes duplicates in that sense, because in essence they're different feeds
[04:20] <shauno> I'm sure they could be cleverer about it if they tried, it's just a pretty fringe case for most users
[04:20] <shauno> it's not so normal to subscribe to an aggregator in your aggregator :)
[04:20] <HazRPG> how dis-concerning... apparently I can't convert a pdf version of the mobi that I just created of this arabic news site :S
[04:21] <HazRPG> yeah, that's true
[04:22] <HazRPG> well there's 2 hours creating a recipe to grab arabic news into a document that I won't get back :/
[04:23] <HazRPG> the result so far is almost close to being perfect - aside for the fact that it won't create a pdf version of it
[04:23] <shauno> why do you need pdf? surely that's the worst format for an ereader?
[04:23] <HazRPG> shauno: my ereader doesn't support arabic as a readable language :/
[04:24] <HazRPG> it just came up in gibberish
[04:24] <HazRPG> thought I'd test it before I waste more time on getting it to perfection, considering I got most of the major stuff out
[04:25] <HazRPG> all google searches I've done point me to believe that pdf is the only way until someone hacks arabic into it
[04:25] <shauno> hm, okay
[04:25] <HazRPG> seems amazon.co.uk sell their arabic books in pdf form (but they don't have many)
[04:25] <shauno> so what's the blocker converting to pdf ?
[04:26] <HazRPG> that's just it... there are no errors, just a blank document that's 0 bytes
[04:26] <shauno> awesome
[04:26] <HazRPG> I know
[04:27] <shauno> does the intermediary have to be .mobi ?
[04:27] <HazRPG> its almost like its gone through "don't know any of those characters... erm... okay... nope still nothing..." and just finishes
[04:27] <HazRPG> well since it's a kindle that's plugged in, it does .mobi by default
[04:28] <HazRPG> the commands I've been using was to produce the pdf to force it to grab and pull straight to pdf
[04:29] <HazRPG> that didn't do anything, so I thought I'd make a mobi which grabs fine, and then convert it to pdf... but it doesn't like that
[04:29] <shauno> but if the mobi isn't being sent to the kindle, then it being kindle-native is kinda irrelevant
[04:30] <HazRPG> oh no, the mobi looks fine on the desktop - its just scrambled on the kindle
[04:31] <shauno> fair enough
[04:31] <shauno> curious why you're stuck on using the one tool that's proving itself not to work, but have at it :)
[04:31] <HazRPG> hmm?
[04:32] <HazRPG> I have a feeling we're confusing each other here lol
[04:34] <shauno> :)
[04:34] <shauno> I think you need to find a workflow that gives you a little more control over the pdf creation
[04:35] <shauno> specifically, font embedding, because so far it sounds like that's where the kindle is lacking with it's native format
[04:35] <HazRPG> ah
[04:35] <shauno> (gibberish being it's putting multibyte characters on the screen, but doesn't have the correct glyphs available to represent them with)
[04:35] <HazRPG> as far as I know calibre just makes an svg (or other for devices that don't support that) images
[04:36] <shauno> which pdf works around because it has the option of embedding fonts into the document itself, rather than requiring them to exist on the device
[04:36] <HazRPG> yeah, flash does the same
[04:37] <HazRPG> and I knew that :P
[04:37] <HazRPG> just a case of working out what to pull this document as, and what to convert it with I guess?
[04:37] <shauno> well, if the tool you're using to convert the intermediary to pdf with isn't letting you do that ... find one that will
[04:37] <HazRPG> the best x -> pdf tool, and see if calibre will pull x
[04:38] <HazRPG> maths is always the best way to explain :)
[04:48] <shauno> I can't seem to find a straight answer on whether debian uses this upstart nonsense :/
[04:56] <HazRPG> erm... ... ... ?
[04:57] <HazRPG> I'll bite, what's upstart?
[04:57] <shauno> the stuff they replaced sysvinit with
[04:58] <HazRPG> oh right
[04:58] <HazRPG> sort of with you now...
[04:59] <shauno> I need a vm pulled down to the bare minimum for something.  kinda irks me how cluttered a 'base' install is now
[05:00] <shauno> a 'minimal' debian install has about 55 processes running straight off the bat.  that's madness
[05:01] <HazRPG> there's talk about it in upstart in the debian mailing list... however this was posted in 2009 and its basically a guy saying there could be an alternative they could use to sysvinit...
[05:01] <shauno> yeah, that's what I got too.  there's a post in 2009 explaining all the wonderous things upstart's going to do for them
[05:02] <shauno> and then one in 2010 asking if anyone's actually started working on it yet
[05:02] <HazRPG> not as bad as some windows "minimal" installs :P
[05:02] <shauno> I dunno, it's getting close
[05:03] <shauno> fresh from boot with "nothing" running, 97 of 256Mb used
[05:03] <HazRPG> it'll never be close, by the time the next windows ships... debian will still be smaller :P
[05:04] <HazRPG> fresh from boot in windows... usually about 5 times that ;)
[05:04] <shauno> you'd think with a million and one distros out there, someone would make a "grumpy old man linux" :)
[05:05] <HazRPG> technically there is :P - damn small linux
[05:05] <shauno> yeah, I don't want busybox :p
[05:07] <HazRPG> hang on a sec... your by no means an old man :P
[05:08] <shauno> I've enough grumpy to make up for it
[05:08] <HazRPG> join the club ;p
[05:09] <shauno> the first box I ran linux on, they told me it wouldn't work because it required 4Mb.  I figured out it was only the installer than required 4Mb, and got it going in 3Mb by using two floppy drives instead of 1+ramdisk
[05:09] <HazRPG> you know it's a bad sign when you start yelling "turn that loud music down!"
[05:09] <HazRPG> ha nice
[05:10] <shauno> I'm not quite as bad as hamitron; I'm fine with the desktop swimming around in as much as ram as it can get it's mits on
[05:10] <shauno> but when a 'minimal base' ties up 100Mb, it's off to a bad start
[05:10] <ali1234> grumpy old man linux = slackware or debian
[05:11] <shauno> this is debian :/
[05:11] <ali1234> just uninstall the things you don't need
[05:12] <shauno> that's what I'm doing atm
[05:12] <HazRPG> true grumpy old man linux shouldn't require you to remove, only to add
[05:12] <ali1234> you need slackware then
[05:13] <shauno> luckily it's not using upstart yet, so it's really easy to make sane
[05:13] <HazRPG> I have thought about it
[05:13] <shauno> rm /etc/rc2.d/*
[05:13] <ali1234> also, good luck fitting 64 bit glibc and coreutils in 4mb of anything
[05:13] <shauno> if I want services I'll ask for them :(
[05:14]  * HazRPG hands shauno a partly grumpy (old) man medal
[05:15]  * HazRPG then runs and hides just in case
[05:15] <HazRPG> ah, humbug!
[05:15] <HazRPG> figured out what the problem was
[05:15] <HazRPG> calibre uses a different version of the /usr/share file
[05:16] <HazRPG> its a custom one, but isn't included in the deb...
[05:16] <HazRPG> or even the repo for that matter
[05:17] <HazRPG> (presumingly because it'll break a different app that exports to pdf)
[05:17] <HazRPG> might have to do like popey and build straight from source
[05:17] <HazRPG> considering other tools don't seem to be up to the task either :/
[05:20] <shauno> 8Mb used off a fresh boot.  that's a bit more like it :)  97Mb my *cough*
[05:24] <HazRPG> grats dude
[05:29] <shauno> ftp.kernel.org doesn't work anymore?  oh come on
[05:29] <MartijnVdS> morning everyone
[05:29] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: mornin squire
[05:30] <HazRPG> shauno: works fine here
[05:30]  * MartijnVdS listens to (warning, starts with 30s of Dutch) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAe04td7YCw
[05:31] <shauno> funky, I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/584636/
[05:31] <MartijnVdS> shauno: looks like they'r edoing maintenance or something
[05:31] <MartijnVdS> shauno: or maybe they prefer http now
[05:31] <MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.38.1.tar.bz2
[05:32] <HazRPG> shauno: http://paste.ubuntu.com/584637/
[05:32] <MartijnVdS> shauno, HazRPG: Looks like a karma issue then ;)
[05:32] <shauno> heh, cheers both
[05:33] <HazRPG> shauno: try pub3.kernel.org instead
[05:33] <shauno> did :)
[05:33] <HazRPG> and?
[05:33] <shauno> it's coming down atm
[05:33] <HazRPG> \o/
[05:34] <MartijnVdS> but.. why use a 30-year old protocol when a 15-year old one is better (and available)
[05:34] <HazRPG> cos ftp wins?
[05:34] <MartijnVdS> ftp = teh suck compared to http
[05:35] <MartijnVdS> at least for servers
[05:35] <shauno> I'd have to go grab elinks, and a whole bunch of deps
[05:35] <MartijnVdS> shauno: wget
[05:35] <MartijnVdS> or lftp
[05:35] <HazRPG> was just about to say wget should do it
[05:35] <shauno> wget doesn't have 'ls' :)
[05:35] <MartijnVdS> (which is multiproto)
[05:35] <MartijnVdS> shauno: lftp :)
[05:35] <MartijnVdS> or, in the case of kernels, git ;)
[05:35] <shauno> lol, I don't need git
[05:36] <shauno> I've very little reason for breaking "the way it's always been done" just to squeeze in whatever's trendy
[05:37] <HazRPG> *nods*
[05:37] <HazRPG> which is why I still prefer irc \o/
[05:37] <shauno> ftp's pretty braindead as protocols go, but it's fantastically interactive
[05:37] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ah, you cook on a log fire?
[05:38] <shauno> no, I got a wife
[05:38] <HazRPG> xD
[05:38] <shauno> =x
[05:38] <MartijnVdS> shauno: so? this is the 21th century. I'd cook if I had a wife :)
[05:39] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, I use to when I had a long-standing gf
[05:40] <shauno> here's my nod to modern.  I'll make menuconfig :)
[05:41] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Woo. Not xconfig?
[05:41] <shauno> I has no X
[05:42] <MartijnVdS> wow, retro
[05:43] <shauno> it's a VM .. it doesn't need X.  it just needs sshd :)
[05:43] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that radio guy almost sounds like he has two different voices (when switching between english to the other language I quite pinpoint)
[05:43] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: lots of people do
[05:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: he's well-known for linksyncing (and playing airguitar/air-drums, etc.) on-webcam :)
[05:44] <MartijnVdS> linksyncing? lipsyncing
[05:44] <HazRPG> I'd disagree, I just sound like I'm throating everything when I speak arabic - but my accent is pretty much the same :P
[05:45] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Sure but I'm guessing you've had more practice than he's had
[05:46] <HazRPG> oh, his english isn't bad... I just mean its almost sounds like he has a split personality lol
[05:46] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: hm.. now that you say that... ;)
[05:46] <HazRPG> s/its/it*
[05:47] <MartijnVdS> I have his book (full of "Top 11" lists for all occasions, and stories about his life)
[05:48] <HazRPG> any good?
[05:48] <MartijnVdS> ("I'll see what I can do", a DJ euphemism meaning "No" but which avoids getting beaten up by partygoers)
[05:48] <MartijnVdS> it's great :)
[05:49] <HazRPG> heh, I've used that excuse before xD
[05:50] <HazRPG> wow, I think I'm running on the least number of tabs for a long time
[05:50] <HazRPG> I have like 7 currently :o
[05:51] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: quick! open reddit
[05:53] <HazRPG> >_<
[05:53] <HazRPG> nah, gonna read I, Robot by Isaac Asimov :)
[05:54] <MartijnVdS> good choice
[05:54] <HazRPG> which my googling says is the first of the robots series
[05:54] <HazRPG> and consists of several shorts :)
[05:55] <HazRPG> got all of asimov's stuff on here :)
[05:55] <MartijnVdS> I couldn't get through the Foundation series
[05:55] <HazRPG> I've read later stuff, just didn't realise it was part of a series until I found them on gutenberg.org
[05:56] <HazRPG> oh?
[05:56] <MartijnVdS> They're on gutenberg?
[05:56] <HazRPG> Was it that bad?
[05:56] <MartijnVdS> Aren't they too new for that?
[05:56] <HazRPG> new?
[05:56] <MartijnVdS> No it's just.. I don't know.. long-winded
[05:56] <HazRPG> first one was in the 40's 50's
[05:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yeah they're post-WW2
[05:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: copyright extends 70 years.
[05:56] <MartijnVdS> (at least)
[05:57] <HazRPG> definitely got them from here though :P
[05:57] <Myrtti> there's only one of his there
[05:57] <HazRPG> hmm apparently I didn't...
[05:57]  * HazRPG tries to think what other site he got it from
[05:58] <shauno> pirate!
[05:58] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ebook-warez.com?
[05:58] <HazRPG> doubtful
[05:59]  * shauno fires warning shots across HazRPG's bow
[05:59] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: amazon?
[06:01] <HazRPG> hmm, can't find where I got it from now :/
[06:01] <shauno> someone really needs to spoof pirates of the caribbean, with somalis downloading cars.
[06:02] <shauno> not entirely sure how that'd work, but if they could wrangle keira & depp back into it, people would show up regardless
[06:03] <HazRPG> heh
[06:04] <shauno> somehow the mental picture I get is very similar to top gear sailing a pickup truck across the channel.
[06:06] <HazRPG> heh, well apparently it was in a collection of other books that are in the public domain
[06:06] <HazRPG> clearly not all in there are public domain :/
[06:07] <HazRPG> thankfully the rest of them are
[06:09] <HazRPG> Myrtti: morning btw :)
[06:10] <shauno> can't believe it's 6am already :/
[06:10] <MartijnVdS> do mrt 24 07:10:49 CET 2011
[06:11] <shauno> that's what I said, 6am :p
[06:11] <HazRPG> shauno: indeed
[06:12] <shauno> timezones should be banned.  they're evil, evil things
[06:12]  * HazRPG still thinks @internet time should have taken off by now
[06:13] <HazRPG> or swatch beats
[06:13] <shauno> I didn't like swatch time.  it seemed to be breaking things for the sole point of breaking them
[06:13] <HazRPG> whatever it was called
[06:13] <HazRPG> I really like it
[06:13] <HazRPG> I still confuse people to this day with it
[06:14]  * HazRPG stares at his clock on gnome which he configured one panel to have swatch beats
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time ?
[06:14] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that's the one
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> People still use that? :)
[06:15] <HazRPG> I do :P
[06:15] <HazRPG> my website does...
[06:15] <shauno> 3 people do.  and haz is 2 of them.
[06:15] <MartijnVdS> shauno: you're the other one?
[06:16] <shauno> hah, no
[06:16] <HazRPG> shauno: 2 guesses, and your first is mickey mouse?
[06:16] <MartijnVdS> Time for tea.
[06:17] <shauno> day/1000 doesn't seem anywhere near granular enough for anything I actually use time for
[06:17] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: see that just sounds wrong at this time of morning to most folk here in the UK
[06:17] <HazRPG> shauno: only because your not use to it
[06:18] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: What would they drink to wake up then?
[06:18] <Myrtti> HazRPG: ohai.
[06:18] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Assuming coffee = teh evils
[06:18] <shauno> a shift would be 333.33 beats?
[06:19] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: when someone says they're going for tea, usually means they're about to have dinner (which to me sounds stupid)
[06:20] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I'm going to brew me a large pot of tea then :)
[06:20] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: when they mean they're about to drink tea, they usually use either "gonna pop the kettle on" or "going to make a cuppa"
[06:20] <shauno> 7am would be time for a cuppa, and leave the 'evil' of choice to ambiguity :)
[06:21] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: see, shauno just proved that xD
[06:21] <shauno> too early for elevenses, too liquid for for breakfast
[06:21] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Strange island-people :)
[06:21] <shauno> pft.  claim coffee is evil, and then call /us/ strange!
[06:21] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: personally "going to make tea" is a perfectly normal english sentence when you mean actual "tea"... I find it odd that it gets referenced for food
[06:22] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: also, coffee is the bees knees!
[06:23] <HazRPG> shauno: yeah, but you seriously don't know how much confusion and heart-ache I caused when I kept using food times wrong to people when I moved back
[06:23] <shauno> tea time is largely archaic, where a pot of tea would come with dinky lil sammiches
[06:23] <HazRPG> "going for lunch" apparently is a wrong phrase to use for getting food at lunch time
[06:23] <HazRPG> shauno: agreed
[06:24] <shauno> going for lunch sounds perfectly normal to me
[06:24] <Myrtti> you should read/listen Bill Bryson's At Home: A Short History of Private Life... it has a section about dinner times
[06:24] <HazRPG> shauno: explain how "lunch time, going for my dinner" works as a sentence? Then "dinner time, time for tea :)" when no tea is ever on the table >_<
[06:25] <shauno> because :)
[06:25] <HazRPG> I've noticed the referencing for the "going" is always right, but then they screw it up and confuse me by placing all the wrong words afterwards!
[06:26] <shauno> (for me, dinner is the principal meal of the day, not a given meal at a give time.  so if I snack at lunch, I have dinner in the evening.  if I have a proper sunday lunch, dinner in the evening would be unthinkable)
[06:27] <HazRPG> e.g. breakfast, 11's (brunch?), lunch, dinner, supper (slash midnight feast)
[06:27] <HazRPG> shauno: see, that makes sense I guess
[06:28] <shauno> and because it makes sense, it's probably not how anyone else sees it :)
[06:28] <HazRPG> but breakfast, 11's, tea, dinner, supper - just sounds wrong as an order of things
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> sounds OK to me
[06:29] <shauno> breakfast, lunch, tea (3-5pm), supper (late), and dinner is whichever is The Meal of the day
[06:29] <HazRPG> heh, see that's another concept I never fully understood either
[06:29] <HazRPG> the timing system
[06:30] <MartijnVdS> what the fuzziness inherent in English timing?
[06:30] <shauno> most likely class divides
[06:30] <HazRPG> breakfast (5-9am), lunch (2-4pm), dinner (7-9pm), supper (anything before bed)
[06:31] <shauno> someone who works for a living isn't going to have a full-scale lunch.  they're going to eat whatever they can as quick as they can and get back to work
[06:31] <MartijnVdS> because their late/big-lunching boss tells them to
[06:31] <shauno> of course
[06:32] <MartijnVdS> (apparently, "boss" ("baas") is the most-exported word from Dutch)
[06:32] <shauno> or because they're sat in a tin/copper mine, and anything more than a pastie would poison them :)
[06:32] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, I always had chips/eggs/beans or similar for lunch when I was working non-IT jobs
[06:33]  * Myrtti waits for it
[06:33] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: and "Baas" in arabic means "stop it" :P
[06:33] <shauno> I think that's the trick; none of this references anything remotely modern, else it'd make sense to us
[06:33] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: SNEEZE!
[06:33] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: not quite
[06:33] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :)
[06:34] <HazRPG> shauno: true...
[06:35] <shauno> so sitting around having early afternoon tea with dinky sammiches seems as normal to us, as it would have to a coal miner at the time.
[06:36] <HazRPG> for anyone interested, its @316 :)
[06:36] <shauno> altho it doesn't seem as far off as it sounds.  I have grandparents in kent, and in durham, and the difference between the two is astounding
[06:37] <HazRPG> shauno: yeah, see I think a lot of my habits when it comes to this stuff is from my dad
[06:37] <HazRPG> he hates tea for a start... lol
[06:38] <HazRPG> coffee is his beef (sorta speak)
[06:38] <shauno> well, that helps
[06:38] <MartijnVdS> coffee beef?
[06:38] <HazRPG> plus he always preferred things to be either a) pronounced properly, or b) used in the right context
[06:39] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: couldn't think of the proper slang term... so went with that ("what's your beef?")
[06:41] <shauno> that's usually negative tho
[06:42] <HazRPG> yeah in hindsight I released that after I hit enter :/
[06:45] <HazRPG> one last thing regarding the time thing and I'll shut that case, the reason for liking swatch time is because it's a better representation of the speed that passes by in a day
[06:45] <shauno> go on then.  what's 108,000 kmph in meters per beat.
[06:46] <MartijnVdS> shauno: wolframalpha
[06:46] <HazRPG> does anything actually go that fast?
[06:46] <shauno> if beats were at all practical, that wouldn't be needed :)
[06:46] <shauno> yes.  this planet.
[06:47] <MartijnVdS> shauno: relative to what? :)
[06:47] <shauno> einsteins mom, of course
[06:48] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ...
[06:48] <HazRPG> I don't do well with big numbers in all honest, was the reason I got a computer/calculator
[06:48] <shauno> MartijnVdS: I figure anything relative has to involve einstein somehow :)  that's roughly the orbital speed
[06:49] <ali1234> multiply by 24, divide by 1 million
[06:49] <HazRPG> ali1234: ...?
[06:50] <shauno> 1 thousand .. beats are just day/1000
[06:50] <ali1234> to convert from kmph to mpb
[06:50] <shauno> oh, million to rid the kilo too
[06:50] <shauno> fairy nuff
[06:50] <ali1234> actually
[06:50] <ali1234> metric fail
[06:51] <ali1234> you actually just multiply by 24
[06:51] <ali1234> because the other 1000s cancel out
[06:51] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ah, relative to the sun :)
[06:51] <HazRPG> ali1234: still a big number
[06:51] <ali1234> 24?
[06:51] <shauno> MartijnVdS: sorry .. tis been a long day already :)
[06:51] <HazRPG> 108,000*24
[06:52] <ali1234> it's about 2.5 million
[06:52] <HazRPG> calc?
[06:52] <shauno> 24 is a huge number.  I run out of fingers well before then.
[06:52] <MartijnVdS> shauno: toes.
[06:52] <MartijnVdS> shauno: that's the trick
[06:52] <shauno> still only takes me to 18 :(
[06:52] <HazRPG> shauno: really? I can count to 14 on one hand
[06:52] <MartijnVdS> shauno: or binary counting
[06:52] <HazRPG> more if you count in binary on one hand...
[06:52] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_binary
[06:53] <MartijnVdS> you get 10 bits
[06:53] <MartijnVdS> or 21, if you're "creative"
[06:53] <shauno> oh dear.
[06:53] <MartijnVdS> 2^21 that is
[06:53] <HazRPG> shauno: count the segments on your fingers+thumb on one hand ;)
[06:53] <HazRPG> that's what I use to do as a kid
[06:54] <HazRPG> also learned to count that way due to religious school
[06:55] <shauno> can't help but think it's not sane for a conversation to take this many left turns before breakfast
[06:56] <HazRPG> your in a room full of geeks, what do ya expect :P
[06:56] <ali1234> people who can count to a higher number than what they can represent using physical appendages?
[06:56] <AlanBell> shauno: two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do
[06:56] <shauno> heh, morning
[06:57] <HazRPG> AlanBell: morning squire :)
[06:57] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG, esq.
[06:57] <HazRPG> AlanBell: also known as U-turn :)
[06:57] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, 270°
[06:58] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: U-turns are 180
[06:58] <MartijnVdS> (ONE-HUNDRED-AND-EIGHTY!)
[06:58] <MartijnVdS> *ahem*
[06:59] <HazRPG> I meant the space it makes, not the physical turn itself
[07:00] <HazRPG> it made sense in my head
[07:00] <shauno> you've never been lost then :)  three left turns has no need to be compact
[07:01] <HazRPG> shauno: I've been lost before... but I tend to just retrace my tracks and start again
[07:01] <shauno> sounds like the least entertaining way to be lost :(
[07:02] <HazRPG> maybe so...
[07:02] <shauno> you're meant to just keep claiming it's a short cut, until you stumble across something sensible
[07:02] <HazRPG> but its entertaining to see the people in the car with me (or walking... biking, etc) to go "arghhhh... we're lost! *panic panic*"
[07:02] <shauno> the nifty bit of living on an island, is this actually works :)
[07:02] <HazRPG> some people don't know how to just chill sometimes :P
[07:03] <Myrtti> I wish there was a place with a proper breakfast in hereabouts
[07:04] <Myrtti> I have trouble calling a latte and croissant or small döner a breakfast
[07:04] <HazRPG> I don't know if its just a generally british thing... but I find when things don't go to plan, you just formulate a new plan on the fly to fit the needs of the situation - and so far I haven't met one brit that can do this successfully without panic-ing
[07:05] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Panic? Brits don't panic.
[07:05] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: They keep calm and carry on.
[07:05] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: clearly you haven't been in a car with my friends
[07:06] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Get them one of those posters
[07:06] <shauno> MartijnVdS: that's because if we get lost, we can't accidentally end up in belgium :)
[07:07] <shauno> the worst that can happen is we might have to admit we're lost.
[07:07] <MartijnVdS> shauno: no, just France
[07:07] <MartijnVdS> shauno: or WALES
[07:07] <HazRPG> so far I've had the car break down due to lack of fuel once before we even left the city (was planning on filling up anyways)... and everyone in the car going "oh *cough* what we going to do!?"... I just turned round said "chill... its fine", got out the car, walked to the nearest petrol station and got a tank of fuel...
[07:07] <shauno> I've actually never been to wales :/
[07:08] <HazRPG> neither have I, now that you mention it
[07:08] <shauno> HazRPG: I tend to tell people the only sensible course of action is to panic.  It's oddly effective at making people realise how stupid it sounds
[07:08] <MartijnVdS> shauno: "When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout"?
[07:08] <HazRPG> shauno: I tend to just say, hey its me... things will be fine... and usually does end out that way :)
[07:09] <Myrtti> I doubt you've really seen anyone get into panic properly either
[07:09] <Myrtti> it's not that commonplace
[07:09] <HazRPG> Myrtti: I lived in saudi, of course I have :P
[07:09] <Myrtti> or it's not manifested outwardly
[07:10] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Having had full-scale panic attacks, I know what it's like..
[07:10] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: *real* brownie points to you :-)
[07:11] <Myrtti> although unfortunate
[07:11] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I can recognise & prevent them now, all is well :)
[07:11] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: sort of had that when I was stuck in an elevator for the first time... not pleasant
[07:12] <shauno> I think the only time I've ever seen someone genuinely lose the plot, was an odd story involving hillbillies and axes.
[07:12] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, of course... you hung around the americans for a while too :P
[07:13] <shauno> otherwise, I've been kinda surprised at how well people can cope with things they shouldn't be able to
[07:14] <HazRPG> some acquaintances (and pretty much most people in this city) just don't seem to be able to cope with anything sadly :/
[07:14] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not everyone is a problem-solver
[07:15] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I wouldn't say I was, I've just learned over the years that getting your knickers in a twist just doesn't solve anything :P
[07:15] <shauno> I think the oddest thing I ever saw, was my mother turn into a dictator for the afternoon when a sibling was hit by a car
[07:16] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: You're a computer programmer, right?
[07:16] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: That means you're a problem solver :)
[07:16] <HazRPG> shauno: ... *pause* nah that would be inappropriate to say out loud
[07:17] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I think logically, doubt that counts as the same thing...
[07:17] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it helps when "something unexpected" happens
[07:18] <HazRPG> wrap a few if statements in a loop, with a function that can adapt... and you've pretty much got my brain
[07:18] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: omg you're an ircbot? :P
[07:18] <shauno> busted!
[07:19] <HazRPG> might as well be :P
[07:19] <MartijnVdS> shauno: it explains why he never sleeps :)
[07:19] <HazRPG> xD
[07:19] <shauno> well I ain't no bot!
[07:19] <HazRPG> so my down-time is due to net.split?
[07:19] <HazRPG> shauno: haha you said bot!
[07:20] <shauno> ?
[07:20] <HazRPG> ... hmm, old joke
[07:21] <shauno> I think I'll file that one under unhandled exception.
[07:22] <shauno> trying to decide whether it'd be kosher to call my boss and ask him if he can drop my laptop 'round, or whether I should just get off my rear and go get it myself
[07:23] <HazRPG> weigh out the pros and cons
[07:24] <MartijnVdS> shauno: it depends.. is your boss a nice person? :)
[07:24] <shauno> I'm lazy vs call my boss and tell him I'm lazy.
[07:24] <HazRPG> how far would you have to travel and how long is the journey?
[07:24] <shauno> about 1hr20 there & back  (walking)
[07:24] <HazRPG> shauno: thought you had a car ... oh wait that's in a different state?
[07:24] <shauno> continent
[07:24] <shauno> my car's in michigan, I'm in ireland
[07:25] <shauno> :o)
[07:25] <HazRPG> that's a pro right there, going to work is quicker than getting in your car :P
[07:25] <shauno> that's one way to look at it
[07:25] <HazRPG> yeah, well it amused me :P
[07:26] <HazRPG> probably discussed this, but can't seem to dig it up in my internal log file, why haven't you gotten a car yet?
[07:27] <shauno> I don't need one
[07:27] <MartijnVdS> it's Ireland
[07:27] <MartijnVdS> everything is within walking distance from the pub :P
[07:27] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: surely that would be a better reason to have one? Considering the number of steep hills
[07:27] <shauno> it takes me 20 minutes to get to town, 40 minutes to get to work, and it's cheaper to get a train to the airport than to pay for parking there
[07:27] <HazRPG> or at least it was like that in wicklow when I was there...
[07:28] <HazRPG> going to the pub from my dad's old mates house was easy... it was the stumble home up a (almost) 45' angle that was hard
[07:28] <shauno> being that I'm not a particularly active person, I find it more sensible to hang on to that 40 minutes of almost-exercise, than start paying lord knows what taxes/fees/duties to drive there
[07:30] <HazRPG> see I'm too use to moving around too much, having a car just puts my mind at ease for some obscure reason
[07:30] <shauno> the question isn't why don't I drive to work.  it's why does everyone else get a place that's so far from work :)
[07:31] <HazRPG> clearly you haven't lived in cumbria before
[07:31] <shauno> yes, I have
[07:31] <shauno> cumbria's different.  there's no jobs, so walking vs driving to them is moot point :p
[07:32] <HazRPG> that's my point, cumbria has no (little?) jobs going... so driving to the closest place which will give you a job is necessary
[07:32] <HazRPG> my first job was in Penrith, which is a 25min drive away
[07:32] <shauno> *moving
[07:33] <Severian> If I wanted to install Natty with a Gnome desktop and no global menues, does anyone here think there is there an easy way to do that?
[07:34] <HazRPG> Severian: remove unity, install gnome-desktop iirc
[07:34] <HazRPG> Natty still has gnome in the background technically
[07:34] <AlanBell> yeah, just install natty and choose classic desktop on login
[07:34] <Severian> That seems to get part of what I want.  I want no global menues, also
[07:34] <ali1234> then remove the global menu applet from the panel
[07:34] <AlanBell> might have to remove something to get rid of global menus, not sure about that one
[07:34] <MartijnVdS> The ubuntu-desktop/unity packages on natty are broken atm
[07:34] <ali1234> i might make a video on how to do it
[07:35] <MartijnVdS> (just tried an upgrade, it offered to remove them)
[07:35] <shauno> global menu is easy.  remove it from the panel, and it re-appears in the app
[07:35] <shauno> I did that by accident, and then went \o/
[07:35] <Severian> ok, I'll try that on a machine tonight.  Thanks
[07:36] <shauno> I did find that a rather worrying sign tho.  I'm a mac user, and found natty's implementation of the global menu to be awkward
[07:36] <AlanBell> why do mac users like global menus?
[07:37] <HazRPG> Severian: best to point out... I wouldn't recommend installing Natty on a development PC, do it on a testing one if you can :)
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Because Steve Jobs tells them to?
[07:37] <AlanBell> never ever saw the point of having half of your application in a different place to the rest of your application
[07:37] <ali1234> it's pretty bad
[07:37] <HazRPG> AlanBell: why is ubuntu insisting on pushing for global menus?
[07:37] <shauno> I didn't say like.  just that if I'm already used to a global menu, and still found it unusuable, I really feel sorry for everyone else it's been thrust upon
[07:37] <ali1234> and the best part is natty hides the menus until you mouse over them
[07:38] <ali1234> something about how "modern apps don't have menus"
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: because the design team thinks they're good
[07:38] <HazRPG> s/good/god
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: or that
[07:39] <Severian> I have several extra computers just for testing Ubuntu.  I have been submitting qa tests on launchpad.  But, none in the natty cycle because the alternate installer has been broken.  I am waiting for the beta, so I can do some real tests.
[07:39] <ali1234> HazRPG: in short, it's because of what i've been saying for about 2 years now
[07:39] <ali1234> HazRPG: desktop is a deadend as far as selling a brand new OS goes
[07:39] <ali1234> HazRPG: the money is in appstores and mobile devices
[07:39] <ali1234> HazRPG: hence, unity is heavily designed around those devices and that workflow
[07:39] <AlanBell> for small screens a global menu doesn't make much difference either way (so why bother) for big screens and multiscreen setups (even a simple laptop+screen or projector) they make *no* sense at all
[07:40] <shauno> which is why, when the headlines said they're getting ready of ubuntu-notebook and rolling it into desktop.  what they actually meant, is they're getting rid of -desktop and renaming notebook
[07:40] <ali1234> HazRPG: there's even a "apps you can download" right in the top level of the menu, while "terminal" is now about four levels deep
[07:40] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: they're also bad when focus-follows-mouse
[07:40] <HazRPG> ali1234: which is ironic, since the developers refuse to admit that
[07:40] <Severian> I have several Ubuntu servers.  It looks like Unity will not be usable on any of them, so I am preparing for how to handle them.
[07:41] <ali1234> why would you want unity on a server?
[07:42] <shauno> I do actually like global menus.  I just get the impression that whoever implemented them in gnome, has never actually used them  (or their own implementation, for that matter)
[07:42] <HazRPG> ali1234: see I don't mind how far they hide terminal, I'll still be setting mod4+T as terminal shortcut :P
[07:42] <ali1234> HazRPG: if you search the logs of this channel you'll see me ranting about how bug 1 is out dated and irrelevant... i guess i got what i asked for :)
[07:43] <Severian> I don't/  But, my servers are not CPU bound and I like to vnc into some of them.  Unity does not work for thise at all.  I don't know what is going to happen when I upgrade them, so I need to plan.  And, on a new installl, I was not asked if I wanted Unity, so again, it seems like a plan is in order.
[07:44] <HazRPG> Severian: hmm, sounds like you have the same mind-set I once had... have you actually tried managing the server without the gui?
[07:44] <Severian> ali1234, Why do you think it is irrelevant?  To me, it is quite annoying that I have to build my own computer to not pay Microsoft.
[07:45] <HazRPG> ali1234: yeah, bug 1 is a running joke for me... but only one of my friends seems to understand it
[07:45] <Severian> HazRPG, Sure.  And some servers I manage with ssh.  But, one server runs virtual machines that display graphics.  I need a desktop for that one at least.
[07:46] <shauno> well, turning ubuntu into a netbook OS isn't going to challenge msft's desktop share :)
[07:46] <HazRPG> Severian: hmm, iirc there's a virtualbox that runs via terminal only
[07:47] <Severian> Unity seems more like a tablet OS than a netbook OS.
[07:47] <HazRPG> Severian: also, might be worth looking into ESXi, etc
[07:47] <AlanBell> kvm is nice for remote graphical VMs
[07:47] <shauno> vmware-server is headless, but it's skirting the problem
[07:47] <Severian> HazRPG, ESXi is right out.  It needs a Windows machine for management and I don't allow those on my network.
[07:47] <AlanBell> however I am with Severian, a gui on a server is not the end of the world
[07:48] <shauno> you're going to want to install it as -server and cherry-pick the desktop packages you add on
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's on the edge though :P
[07:48] <HazRPG> Severian: ah, that's just a misconception - look through the hak5 episodes online they show you how to manage via ssh
[07:49] <shauno> MartijnVdS: it's really not.  it's just that -server is the last holdout of the 80's elitists, and tragically designed tools that make themselves difficult to wrap
[07:49] <shauno> everyone else seems to be capable of putting a UI on a server without bringing the world to it's knees.
[07:50] <Severian> I'll check those.  I did start to install ESXi about 2 years ago.  I could not accept their license, and so went back to VirtualBox.
[07:50] <AlanBell> Severian: KVM on the server and virt-manager on your desktop is awesome
[07:51] <HazRPG> AlanBell: see I've always liked gui-server's however the inner hacker (white-hat, I should point out) inside me just keeps telling me that having one more application as a hole in your system is just not good
[07:51] <AlanBell> it connects over ssh and just doubleclick a VM to open a VNC over SSH to the screen of the guest
[07:51] <Severian> I really like doing most management from the command line.  But, that virtual machine with Miro really needs a GUI to do the job right.
[07:51] <shauno> HazRPG: curious, do you have a router at home?
[07:52] <HazRPG> Severian: there is a headless virtualbox though :)
[07:52] <Severian> AlanBell, I have one server with KVM.  I don't use it much, because the VMs run considerably slower than with VirtualBox.
[07:53] <HazRPG> shauno: ... er yeah?
[07:53]  * HazRPG seems to think that's a trick question
[07:53] <shauno> HazRPG: how do you manage it?  rs232? 248? telnet? ssh?  or with a web-based, hand-holding UI when a httpd is just another process a router shouldn't need to be running ;)
[07:54] <Severian> HazRPG, It is not just controlling virtualbox.  Sometimes I want to back a video up a bit.  Things like that.  I need the GUI.  And the CPU is not close to busy most of the time.  I am doing a complete sorce code build of a system there now, so it is busy.  But, this is unusual.
[07:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> GUIs on servers is a bad idea IMHO.
[07:54] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, my router has a feat. where you can enter into debug mode and mess with settings via terminal ;)
[07:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning BTW :-)
[07:54] <shauno> HazRPG: do you use that tho?
[07:55] <HazRPG> shauno: yeah?
[07:55] <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: agreed, also morning :)
[07:56] <shauno> the amount of people that say a server doesn't need a UI, and then put webmin/ebox/cpanel/myphpadmin/etc on it is astounding.  so apparently they do need a UI, they just haven't managed to do it "right" yet
[07:58] <HazRPG> shauno: oh, I'm a hypocrite in that sense - I mean I'm running Win2003 server on mine... but it was because I was learning how to use and manage a windows-based server at one point, and it's a machine I've never took down since
[07:59] <HazRPG> been spending the rest of the time trying to get out of the habit of using a gui so that I can put a linux variant in its place
[07:59] <MartijnVdS> good
[08:00] <HazRPG> which reminds me, keep meaning to write up my notes about installing ubuntu server on my blog...
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> you installed Ubuntu on your blog?!
[08:00] <HazRPG> then getting round to making some videos for it
[08:00] <Severian> That must have been a tough install.
[08:00] <shauno> Severian: you haven't seen wordpress run unity?  ;)
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> Severian: nah, he used the "php" arch, instead of amd64 or i386
[08:01] <HazRPG> Severian: lol, the install was easy... using the tools is the hard part
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: we'll get you though it :)
[08:02] <HazRPG> :)
[08:02] <MartijnVdS> through*
[08:02] <HazRPG> I'm going to assume that was sarcasm (installing ubuntu on my blog comment)
[08:02] <daubers> Morning
[08:03]  * HazRPG as he nods and wakes to the coffee machine
[08:03] <shauno> I actually really like apple's server admin tool.  it's just a shame that if you go behind it's back and edit files yourself, it disowns you.  something along those lines could be pretty awesome on ubuntu
[08:03] <HazRPG> daubers: morning
[08:03] <HazRPG> shauno: you want ubuntu to disown you!?
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> dispwn
[08:04] <shauno> HazRPG: well, it already has :p   but "along those lines"
[08:04] <HazRPG> shauno: white lines?
[08:04] <HazRPG> connecting to your mind?
[08:05] <shauno> a gui tool that connects to a management service on the server, rather than running X directly on the server.
[08:05] <FND> mornin' - after installing something like MySQL or MongoDB, how can I prevent it from starting automatically on boot? just remove the symlink from /etc/init.d ?
[08:05] <HazRPG> *rang dang digity dang di dang*
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> FND: why would you install it if you don't want to start it?
[08:05] <FND> MartijnVdS: local dev box rather than server
[08:06] <FND> so I only want it started when actually developing on the respective project
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> FND: you could remove the symlinks.. but I'd create a VM and boot that as needed
[08:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> FND: man update-rc.d
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer++
[08:06] <FND> thanks
[08:06] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, see now that I wouldn't mind... so long as the "management service" was only turned on when you open up an ssh into it...
[08:07] <shauno> that'd be pretty sane
[08:07] <shauno> it's just be nice to have any alternative at all.  atm if someone's more comfortable managing a server by UI, all the user-friendly ubuntu community can really offer them is to laugh in their face
[08:08] <FND> my Unix fu is weak here :)
[08:08] <HazRPG> shauno: nah, in the past I've noticed "install gnome-desktop" springs up quite a bit
[08:09] <shauno> it does.  I see it in #ubuntu-server all the time.  someone asks for help installing vnc on -server, they get told it's not a server and to go ask #ubuntu
[08:09] <HazRPG> ouch, tough crowd
[08:10] <shauno> (ironically, #ubuntu itself is more likely to tell you to use apt-get than to point you to the software center, so no-one's quite sure whether they're -desktop or not)
[08:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> Well, on IRC it is much easier to say to someone type "sudo apt-get install foo" than click this menu, followed by this button, followed by typing this into this field...
[08:12] <shauno> I dunno.  I've supported my mother via gtalk before.  getting her to open that black box was never an option
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> "TheOpenSourcerer: Well, on IRC it is much easier..." Note the bit about IRC
[08:14] <shauno> I don't see how text here is any more difficult than text in an IM
[08:14] <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: most of my advise goes like this: Click: Applications->Accessories->Calculator then click File->etc->etc->etc
[08:14] <Severian> Why would anyone use Sofware Center?  It seems like the hard way to get things installed, if you know your way around a bit.
[08:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: Sorry - I guessed gtalk was voice-based ;-)
[08:15] <shauno> tell libpurple that :)
[08:15] <Severian> gtalk can be voice or text
[08:16] <MartijnVdS> video even
[08:16] <HazRPG> libpurple disagrees however
[08:16] <HazRPG> sadly...
[08:16] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: works fine with empathy
[08:16] <HazRPG> :(
[08:16]  * MartijnVdS has done gtalk video chat using empathy
[08:16] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I don't work fine with empathy though :P
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> Pidgin FTW!
[08:17] <HazRPG> used pidgin even before it was called pidgin...
[08:17] <HazRPG> ye ol' Gaim :)
[08:18] <HazRPG> simply because I didn't want to pay for Trillian (because it was poor at the time), and no other multi-protocol app worked as good
[08:18]  * FND recently started using irssi-xmpp, and is very happy with it
[08:19] <ali1234> actually gtalk doesn't work with empathy any more than it works with pidgin
[08:19] <ali1234> the reason they don't work is codecs
[08:20] <ali1234> audio only does work though
[08:20] <shauno> this is great fun.  I can't remember the last time I built a kernel :/
[08:21] <HazRPG> shauno: are you just basically resurrecting an old system or something?
[08:21] <ali1234> note that both empathy and pidgin will do video over gtalk as long as both ends are using open source software
[08:21] <shauno> I've a funny feeling the whole thing's going to explode because I don't use initrd, and everyone else seems to
[08:21] <HazRPG> FND: I'd use irssi - but I like my spell check too much...
[08:22] <HazRPG> ali1234: agreed, I've had voice working on libpurple in windows before
[08:22] <FND> spell-check is overrated for real-time chat (assuming you're not a moronic 13yo)
[08:22] <HazRPG> ali1234: however video is a bit /iffy/ to say the least
[08:22] <daubers> shauno: re gui management stuff: It's not that difficult to write really
[08:23] <HazRPG> FND: no, but I am partially dyslexic
[08:23] <FND> HazRPG: doesn't spell-check slow you down _a lot_
[08:23] <FND> as in, the interaction
[08:23] <shauno> daubers: the biggest catch seems to be that almost everyone uses a different format for their config files
[08:23] <HazRPG> FND: would you say my responses were that slow?
[08:24] <FND> HazRPG: well, then lemme rephrase: how often do you actually use spell-check
[08:24] <HazRPG> I usually type everything I want to say out first, then correct anything that's got red wiggly lines
[08:24] <daubers> shauno: You'd just have to build it in a way that was modular enough to add a module for each service you wanted
[08:24] <HazRPG> I've used it maybe 4 times in the last 3 sentences?
[08:25] <Severian> shauno, There are several very different init systems.  config files is only part of it.  I kind of wonder if upstart is going to be around for long.
[08:25] <FND> if it works for you, great
[08:25] <diplo> morning all
[08:25] <FND> for me, I've found the signal-to-noise ratio on GUI clients way too bad (I used to use XChat and Pidgin)
[08:26] <HazRPG> FND: also, auto-correct usually fixes most things for me anyways
[08:26] <FND> plus with Irssi I get vi bindings in the input line :)
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: initrds are really only required where you have a distro that is being installed of lots of different machines.  I used to build LinuxFromScratch systems and *never* used an initrd. I just built the modules I needed into the kernel.
[08:26] <FND> HazRPG: it's not inconceivable for Irssi to have spell-check support - not that I wanna convince you of anything, of course :)
[08:27] <FND> there are several scripts here: http://scripts.irssi.org/
[08:27] <shauno> what on earth have they done to grub's config file :/
[08:27] <HazRPG> shauno: welcome to grub 2.0 \o/
[08:27] <HazRPG> (slash 1.9x)
[08:27] <Severian> shauno, you must be looking at a grub2 config.  It is pretty bad, isn't it?
[08:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> There be dragons in that there config file.
[08:28] <shauno> I'm not sure what I'm looking at.  so far I've found a folder full of bash scripts
[08:29] <HazRPG> FND: hmm, I do want to get into irssi - don't get me wrong, the default config just doesn't appeal and the time it'd take me to learn how to set it up the way I want outweighs the C&P of a single backed up pidgin file I've had for years
[08:30] <FND> HazRPG: I can relate, that's pretty much why I only started using Irssi this year (and still haven't migrated to mutt)
[08:30] <MartijnVdS> I migrated away from mutt when I switched to gmail
[08:30] <MartijnVdS> gmail <3
[08:30] <FND> you use the web interface?
[08:31] <HazRPG> shauno: hmm, grub.cfg is what your looking for I'm guessing?
[08:32] <shauno> nah, /etc/grub.d.  grub.cfg told me off for daring look at it.
[08:33] <shauno> heh.  panic because it can't find the root device.
[08:33] <Severian> Sometime you have to change grub.cfg, no matter what it says.
[08:34] <shauno> it used to be the default was whatever the root was when the kernel was built.  apparently that doesn't work anymore either
[08:35] <FND> grub2 has me similarly irritated as desktop-couch - I want my transparent dotfiles back!
[08:35]  * FND aspires to be a grumpy old bastard
[08:36] <Severian> Don't talk about your mother like that, FND
[08:37] <Severian> You can still use grub, but it is more work.  I use it on this system.
[08:38] <FND> well, yeah, I could also use Gentoo - but I accept Ubuntu's choices for the convenience
[08:39] <FND> which doesn't mean I don't bitch like a sissy
[08:39] <Severian> I use grub on this Ubuntu Maverick system.
[08:40] <shauno> I whine a lot.  I'm trying to follow thru a book on kernel internals, yet I'm struggling to even boot a kernel because there's so made levels of handholding in the way
[08:40] <FND> FWIW, grub2 has nothing on Rails when it comes to awfulness
[08:40] <shauno> I really wish they'd quit fixing the bits that aren't broken, and worry about those that are
[08:40] <Severian> Is made another word for many in your usage?
[08:41]  * HazRPG starting to feel tried
[08:41] <HazRPG> shauno: hand-holding is the future, don't cha know :P
[08:41] <shauno> Severian: yeah, my brain isn't on the same page as me anymore.  I shouldn't be awake this late :)
[08:41] <FND> HazRPG: you joke, but it's true :(
[08:41] <MartijnVdS> The Beatles started it.. ♫ I wanna hold your haaaand
[08:41] <HazRPG> FND: sadly... I know >_<
[08:42] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: xD
[08:42] <HazRPG> FND: Have you noticed that your name has a sad face on it? i.e. D:
[08:43] <Severian> A little hand holding in the system is OK.  As long, as it is possible to avoid it if you don't need it.  I was really frustrated with Update Manager until I stopped it from starting up.
[08:43] <FND> hah! well, that's almost Freudian
[08:43]  * FND hands HazRPG a cookie for that discovery
[08:44]  * HazRPG waves cookie in the air trying as if pleased but realises that browser cookies aren't edible :(
[08:44]  * FND converts cookie to gold star
[08:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: lp ~/.chrome/cookies
[08:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: put edible paper in your printer
[08:45] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: \o/ edible browser cookies
[08:45] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: winrar!
[08:45] <FND> incidentally, Chrome's handling of cookies is why I don't use it as primary browser (well, and Vimperator)
[08:45]  * HazRPG places FND's gold star onto the monitor over where important mail would be
[08:47] <HazRPG> FND: but... google likes cookies! So much so that they want every cookie sent to them! Greedy gits...
[08:47] <shauno> in other news, it's another fantastic day out there
[08:47] <FND> that's why I use Chrome only as a site-specific browser
[08:48] <FND> shauno: I've noticed, and would rather go out and play than battle this crap code
[08:48] <HazRPG> FND: that sounds wrong...
[08:48]  * MartijnVdS uses chromium with 3rd-party cookies disabled, and ghostery
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/mlomiejdfkolichcflejclcbmpeaniij
[08:48] <Severian> I almost installed Chrome last night.  But, I found out it includes Flash.
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> Severian: on Linux as well?
[08:49] <Severian> yes
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> Chromium doesn't :)
[08:49] <HazRPG> FND: if it really bothers you, why not change /etc/hosts to just bounce back the google requests over to 127.0.0.1
[08:49] <FND> HazRPG: how so? for Google Reader et al. you pretty much have to give in and use cookies - that way at least I keep 'em separate
[08:49] <HazRPG> home sweet 127.0.0.1
[08:49] <FND> it's not just Google, it's general paranoia
[08:49] <shauno> *cough* ::1
[08:50] <HazRPG> shauno: not all of us are on ipv6 dude ;)
[08:50] <shauno> HazRPG: congratulations, you got a new project then :)
[08:50] <HazRPG> I swear I'm going to be old before I ever finish the ones I've started >_<
[08:50] <HazRPG> shauno: does tunnelling ipv4 over ipv6 not count?
[08:50] <shauno> that's pretty much the plan.  you're going to grow old anyway
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Throw away projects you're never going to finish
[08:51] <FND> $ cat ~/bin/gapps # exec google-chrome --user-data-dir="$HOME/.config/google-chrome/GApps" "$@"
[08:51] <FND> this is what I use Chrome for
[08:51] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: but I'm a horde... I horde this and I horde that... all data is welcome!
[08:51] <FND> the user-data-dir thing is pretty neat, since you can run several instances in parallel
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: hoarder*
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Horde = WoW :P
[08:51]  * HazRPG was tempted to actually download wiki the other night
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Are you expecting WW3? :)
[08:52] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: it was an obvious pun ;) - I might be partially-self-diagnosed-dyslexic... but I can at least spell dyslexic without spellcheck :)
[08:52] <shauno> I actually know someone who keeps wikipedia on SD cards, along with an ereader and a solar charger, locked away in a box that'd supposedly survive emp
[08:52] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Paranoia \o/
[08:53] <shauno> so word to the wise; if we survive ww3, head to australia if you'd like a refresher on counting binary on your fingers
[08:53] <HazRPG> shauno: must be only half of wikipedia? I clicked the link and it said it was too huge for my screen to comprehend
[08:54] <shauno> HazRPG: cards is plural :)
[08:54] <shauno> the worst part is, I actually believe him.  he's just .. one of those.
[08:54] <HazRPG> shauno: seriously, he sat and downloaded it all >_<
[08:55] <shauno> HazRPG: I expect he let his computer do it.  they're handy for that kinda thing
[08:55] <shauno> wikipedia do have a downloadable dump.  it's not a difficult task.  having a good reason to do so is much more awkward.
[08:56] <HazRPG> shauno: well I didn't expect him to count the binary on his hand and input manually into some circuitry... however I can imagine that use to be a guys job at one point :P
[08:56] <HazRPG> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download
[08:56] <HazRPG> to be exact
[08:56] <HazRPG> ~27GB uncompressed for english
[08:56] <MartijnVdS> 6GB compressed
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> still.. it'd fit on a 32GB SD card
[08:57] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah, but for it to be useful you'd want it uncompressed
[08:57] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: this is true...
[08:58] <shauno> I could see the value of having a copy of wp & project gutenberg in such a situation.  I'm just not the right type to plan for it myself :)
[08:59] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: http://goo.gl/hxcA \o/
[09:00] <shauno> random story.  as kids, we were always told if the siren went off, to head for the hills ( / golf course) so we'd enjoy an awesome sunset and a painless death.  I never quite knew if they were kidding or not.
[09:00] <HazRPG> shauno: I have thought about it a few times myself... downloading it for when governments decide that the internet should be closed off
[09:01] <shauno> well, one day the intruder alarm went off at the base.  no-one had actually educated us on the difference, so I darned near <kept family-friendly> myself
[09:01] <HazRPG> lol
[09:03] <shauno> HazRPG: if you're genuinely paranoid of such a situation, get a ham radio license and check out the data modes.  Instead of sitting around complaining about the govt cutting the net off, you could be part of the solution instead :)
[09:04] <HazRPG> shauno: there was an episode about ham radios... and I did consider that too!
[09:04] <HazRPG> episode of hak5*
[09:06] <shauno> you can use x.25 (or a variant of it), giving you true packet radio over ham bands
[09:07] <HazRPG> shauno: ya should catch the episode I'm referring to... some of the people in the states have set themselves up as a ham internet gateway :)
[09:07] <shauno> and make yourself useful next time cumbria gets flooded :p  so much more productive than having articles about counting on your fingers on your kindle :p
[09:08] <HazRPG> and the guy went to visit the hakhouse, he used his ham to log his trip on twitter
[09:08] <shauno> that's not unusual
[09:09] <HazRPG> no, I thought it was pretty cool
[09:09] <shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assigned_/8_IPv4_address_blocks    check out who 44.0.0.0/8 is assigned to :)
[09:10] <HazRPG> also, during the cumbrian floods... I was stuck in Edinburgh for a week. I landed the day it happened
[09:10] <shauno> and all the amsat stuff .. hams have crazy resources
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: There are worse places to be stuck
[09:11] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: At least they have good whisky :)
[09:11] <czajkowski> .c
[09:11] <shauno> I do like edinburgh.  there's some lovely bars :)
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: g'morning
[09:12] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[09:12] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I think I was 17 at the time?
[09:12] <HazRPG> czajkowski: g'mornin :)
[09:14] <HazRPG> to land, get a bus ticket from the desk... catch the bus to the bus station... sit there for 5 hours to find a bus finally arrives to be told "sorry we're not going to carlisle" was a mega shock for me
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: You paniced?
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> :P
[09:15] <HazRPG> nah, was just shocked
[09:15] <shauno> that the busses weren't going where they said they were?  you don't take busses often, do you :p
[09:16] <HazRPG> first thing I did was borrowed a pen from a lass, and scribbled down some important numbers around my arm
[09:16] <HazRPG> shauno: heh
[09:16] <shauno> name, address, couple of stamps .. then sleep it off in a postbox :p
[09:16] <HazRPG> shauno: haha
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: 0118 999 881 999 119 725
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ... 3
[09:17] <HazRPG> ...3
[09:17] <HazRPG> argh! too late :P
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> shauno: good idea though :)
[09:17] <shauno> read an odd story on reddit yesterday, about various odd objects people had managed to send thru the post
[09:18] <HazRPG> shauno: do tell :)
[09:18]  * HazRPG pulls up a chair
[09:18] <shauno> peronally, I'd have just headed for a train station.  there's two different routes into carlisle from edinburgh :)
[09:19] <shauno> down to newcastle & across, or across to glasgow and down
[09:20] <shauno> (I think if you do the later you have to run 3 blocks thru the rain tho, because 'across' and 'down' don't quite meet in the middle)
[09:20] <HazRPG> shauno: I landed in Glasgow, I ended up in Edinburgh...
[09:20] <shauno> lost?
[09:22] <HazRPG> shauno: about 3 hours of phone calls later, I found out that one of my cousins moved to Edinburgh so rang him up and asked if he'd put me up :)
[09:23] <HazRPG> hadn't seen the guy since I was 4 though!
[09:23] <shauno> sounds like a pretty fun way to end a trip either way tho
[09:23] <HazRPG> I've gotten use to it
[09:24] <HazRPG> bleeps always happens when I travel - something goes wrong somewhere to make the trip more exciting
[09:24] <shauno> we had some floods here a while back.  was great fun.  the bus home from dublin just went on a massive detour thru the middle of nowhere
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: You aren't related to The Doctor, are you? :)
[09:25] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: no... but ironically my friends do call me the time lord ;P
[09:26] <HazRPG> I think it has more to do with the fact that I'm always late for stuff...
[09:26] <HazRPG> or sometimes way too early
[09:26] <HazRPG> I was 2 week early for my job interview once :P
[09:26] <HazRPG> got the job because I seemed keen apparently
[09:27] <HazRPG> shauno: o'realy?
[09:28] <HazRPG> "...and if you look to your left, there's more water :)"
[09:29] <bigcalm> Weeeee. The 1st service pack is waiting to be downloaded/installed on my windows7 desktop. Only 73.6mb - 892.6mb
[09:29] <HazRPG> seems I'm in for the long haul again today... might as well do  the usual I'm-still-awake-but-should-really-wash-up routine
[09:30] <oimon> bigcalm: lol natty ISO is less than that
[09:30] <oimon> obligatory http://xkcd.com/612/
[09:30] <HazRPG> bigcalm: I'd hate to boot into my win7 to see how much it needs to download now then...
[09:31] <MooDoo> bigcalm: i'm not doing it, last time i did it hosed my box
[09:31] <bigcalm> For those who want to bash me for using windows: 9 - 6 I use computers as a tool and it's a work provided tool :)
[09:32] <bigcalm> MooDoo: when was the last time and what version?
[09:32] <MooDoo> bigcalm: i use windows too, it's no problem
[09:32] <gord> i don't think anyone is gonna bash you for using windows :)
[09:32] <gord> not here at least
[09:32] <oimon> we'll just sympathise
[09:32] <shauno> HazRPG: I should have the pics still if I look hard enough.  we crossed a tiny bridge at the roscommon border, that had been breached at both ends.  so it looked like the bridge started & finished within the river
[09:32] <MooDoo> bigcalm: about 3 weeks ago and i'm not sure what version
[09:32] <screen-x> morning :)
[09:32] <MooDoo> screen-x: morning
[09:32] <HazRPG> MooDoo: it's a job-hazard we all have to live with sometimes
[09:33] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, nice
[09:33] <HazRPG> right, brb... time to wash face, etc
[09:36] <HazRPG> hmm, might go for a walk too actually
[09:36] <HazRPG> sun's out n everything
[09:37] <HazRPG> n apparently few friends are at the park... so why not ay?
[09:37] <HazRPG> catch ya all later :)
[09:38]  * BigRedS wants to go and sit in the park
[09:38] <screen-x> BigRedS: I'd second that
[09:38]  * oimon seems to have developed a new cold to go with the existing one
[09:38] <BigRedS> I have a lapop, and my phone claims 3G tetherability.....
[09:38] <AlanBell> 2/30
[09:39] <screen-x> AlanBell: life goals achieved?
[09:39] <gord> hrm, need to find a firefox plugin to auto refresh a webpage so that i can get some work done
[09:39] <Myrtti> there used to be one
[09:39] <shauno> I use refreshevery.  works with 4 and does what it says on the can
[09:39] <gord> reloadevery?
[09:39] <shauno> very possibly
[09:40] <gord> cool, trying that one
[09:40] <shauno> yeah, that's the one.  just adds a new entry when you right-click a page
[09:40] <gord> "ReloadEvery has partnered with SmartLinks to bring you more relevant links on the pages you visit. " ....
[09:41] <BigRedS> I don't like the sound of that
[09:41] <shauno> yeah, that's optional.  and stupid.
[09:41] <oimon> ewww
[09:41]  * BigRedS points out that it's built in to Opera :)
[09:41] <HazRPG> gord: reloading won't make the 3DS arrive any faster!
[09:41] <gord> yes. it. will.
[09:41] <HazRPG> :P
[09:41] <shauno> I use it at work, because we have a silly webapp that just stalls after 60 minutes of inactivity
[09:41] <HazRPG> only if. this. is. sparta!
[09:42] <HazRPG> right anyways, shoes and stuff on... definitely going this time o/
[09:42] <shauno> it was either that, or tie a gerbil to my mouse
[09:44] <willy_1977> morning
[09:44] <shauno> howdy
[09:48] <willy_1977> seems a little less busy on here currently I *may* even be able to keep up :D
[09:48] <JamesTait> "What a beautiful day, hey hey, what a beautiful day!" Good morning everyone! :D
[09:48]  * screen-x recommends "happy up here" by royksopp to accompany the beautiful day
[09:48]  * oimon seems to have lost 2 staff members today to pointless strike action
[09:50] <willy_1977> "My oh my what a wonderful day..." and we're all stuck in front of computers :p
[09:51] <gord> i love it when apt gets to upgrading flashplayer - their little download graph is pretty
[09:52] <willy_1977> hah... basic I know but I just got davmail working meaning I can ditch windows properly when working from home ... just the question of .net development now :/
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> gord: wget --progress=dot
[10:01] <smittix> Morning all
[10:02] <willy_1977> smittix: morning.
[10:02] <smittix> Anyone know of a good wordpress plugin to auto post to twitter?
[10:02] <MooDoo> smittix: twitter tools
[10:03] <smittix> MooDoo: Cheers :)
[10:03] <willy_1977> MooDoo: fancy seeing you here :p
[10:03] <smittix> I will check it out
[10:03] <MooDoo> willy_1977: always here :)
[10:03] <smittix> Cracking weather in notts today MooDoo
[10:03] <MooDoo> smittix: yeah, lovely ride into work
[10:03] <willy_1977> ride? are you the engine?
[10:03] <MooDoo> willy_1977: nope motor
[10:04]  * screen-x imagines MooDoo galloping to work
[10:04] <MooDoo> screen-x: tall and lanky gallop ;)
[10:05] <screen-x> 10:04 \o/
[10:05] <willy_1977> tether up dobin just outside... I cycle to work and it's been much better lately, same on a motorbike I guess winter riding has it's drawbacks...
[10:08] <BigRedS> there's a fairly serious discussion going on here about how best to build a clock in minecraft
[10:08] <BigRedS> between a pair of people who've been doing it since about 6pm yesterday
[10:09] <screen-x> BigRedS: digital display made from a grid of torches?
[10:09] <smittix> MooDoo: Thank's for that, all working fine :)
[10:10] <MooDoo> smittix: no worries, i've used it before :)
[10:12] <BigRedS> screen-x: nah, some blocks that can be switched between white and black, for an lcd-alike display
[10:12] <BigRedS> but they're using signposts to transmit the time to this clock from a computer hidden in a valley
[10:12] <BigRedS> and that's the bit they're arguing about
[10:12] <screen-x> BigRedS: oooh, didn't know colour changing blocks were available
[10:13] <smittix> Now to add Flickr Box for my photography
[10:13] <MooDoo> smittix: :)
[10:14] <willy_1977> sorry - excuse my ignorance but... "minecraft"?
[10:14] <bigcalm> minecraft.net
[10:15] <willy_1977> bigcalm: ah ok, thanks.
[10:15] <screen-x> willy_1977: noooo don't do it!
[10:15] <willy_1977> ?
[10:15] <screen-x> willy_1977: mindcrack is known to be highly addictive
[10:15] <bigcalm> It's a sandbox type game where you are free to spend your time away from work ;)
[10:16] <willy_1977> lol
[10:16] <bigcalm> screen-x: I go through phases, haven't played it for a while
[10:16] <MooDoo> willy_1977: #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
[10:16] <MooDoo> willy_1977: it's addictive :D
[10:17] <willy_1977> OOoooo I've just seen monodevelop... anyone used it?
[10:18]  * willy_1977 is a linux noob if not apparent
[10:18] <MooDoo> wintellect: shuuuuuuuuuuush don't say mono ;)
[10:18] <bigcalm> willy_1977: directhex might have ;)
[10:19] <smittix> What is mono? heh
[10:19] <willy_1977> MooDoo: I may have mentioned it once but I think I got away with it...
[10:19] <directhex> wasn't me, didn';t break it, can't prove it
[10:20] <screen-x> directhex: I think it was you... http://traffic.libsyn.com/frostbitemedia/TWID_022.ogg
[10:20] <directhex> :o i'm being impersonated on the internet!
[10:32] <s-fox> Hello.
[10:32] <willy_1977> s-fox: hello
[10:33] <MooDoo> s-fox: good morning
[10:34] <smittix> bah, Payroll patch day :(
[10:34] <s-fox> Hello willy_1977 & MooDoo =)  How are you?
[10:34] <willy_1977> smittix: yuk...
[10:34] <willy_1977> s-fox: yeah good thanks, you?
[10:34] <s-fox> I am okay thank you.
[10:35] <MooDoo> s-fox: i'm fine and dandy, just looking for a camera lens to hire
[10:36] <willy_1977> MooDoo: cool... got some more trips planned?
[10:36] <MooDoo> willy_1977: it's for a wedding this time......and looking to do some toddler group photos
[10:37] <willy_1977> MooDoo: cool
[10:37] <s-fox> MooDoo,  I like photography also. What camera do you have?
[10:37] <MooDoo> willy_1977: yeah, i'm getting some studio kit that i can use
[10:38] <willy_1977> MooDoo: building it up slowly?
[10:38] <MooDoo> s-fox: just a nikon d60 at the moment, but i'm looking at the d300s
[10:38] <MooDoo> willy_1977: yeah
[10:38] <MooDoo> s-fox: what you using?
[10:39]  * directhex has a new camera
[10:39] <MooDoo> directhex: which one?
[10:39] <directhex> fuji finepix w3
[10:39] <MooDoo> lovely :)
[10:40] <s-fox> MooDoo,  http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-LX3-Digital-Stabilized-Black/dp/tech-data/B001CCLBSA/ref=de_a_smtd
[10:40] <MooDoo> s-fox: nice, do you take a lot?
[10:41] <s-fox> MooDoo,  When I go out yes.
[10:41] <MooDoo> http://www.flickr.com/photos/prjmellors/ - my flickr
[10:41] <s-fox> I bought it while I was travelling in USA last year
[10:42] <directhex> MooDoo, i want some memorable pics from our summer holiday in may. given the constraints on 3d cameras, florida should be absolutely fine for it, and make for some awesome pics
[10:42] <MooDoo> directhex: yes :) awesome
[10:42] <directhex> MooDoo, i wasn't really too sold on the idea until i tried the 3d photo app on playstation network, which has a bunch of demo pics
[10:43] <directhex> MooDoo, and considering they're taken with sony's "just press the button twice and move your hand a few inches between snaps, it's true 3d honest" technology, i'm pretty hopeful for what a real camera will do
[10:43] <MooDoo> directhex: looks ace
[10:44] <directhex> £4 a photo to get 3d prints though >_<
[10:44] <gord> you can get 3d prints?
[10:44] <MooDoo> yeah can be expensive
[10:44] <screen-x> 3d prints??
[10:44] <s-fox> Nice pics MooDoo
[10:44] <MooDoo> s-fox: i'm learinign
[10:45] <MooDoo> learning
[10:45] <s-fox> I do not have a flickr
[10:45] <s-fox> :'(
[10:45] <directhex> works the same way as glasses-free 3d screens. i.e. very high resolution, both pics interlaced, with a parallax barrier to split the image between your eyes
[10:45] <screen-x> s-fox: thats the advantage of dvi
[10:45] <MooDoo> s-fox: any particular reason? or just not something you're interested in?#
[10:45] <directhex> same as 3ds
[10:46] <screen-x> directhex: like an old school postcard, except you don't have to move you head from side to side?
[10:46] <s-fox> MooDoo,  No reason. I have an account on gnome-look where I have a couple of my shots sitting as wallpapers
[10:47] <directhex> screen-x, kinda, yeah. the barrier is much much finer, so each eye sees a different thing
[10:47] <directhex> screen-x, so with 3d prints, they need to put a barrier on every single printout. the alternative is a ~£400 digital 3d photo frame. or just using a 3d tv/monitor
[10:48] <s-fox> http://gnome-look.org is down
[10:48] <screen-x> directhex: I'd be interested to see how well that works..
[10:49] <gord> very well, you just have to be in the right position
[10:49] <directhex> screen-x, the 3ds will bring 3d cameras and screens to millions
[10:49] <gord> you couldn't mount a 3d print on a wall and have everyone in a room see it in 3d really
[10:49] <directhex> gord, yeah, that's the downside to parallax barrier, and why it's a no-go for tvs. need to be completely straight in front of it
[10:50] <screen-x> Like good audio.. you have to sit in the right place
[10:53] <dogmatic69> anyone have a simple howto on formating a flash drive thing
[10:54] <Severian> not much howto needed.  Just do the natural thing.
[10:55] <dogmatic69> never done it before, gparted just throwing errors all over
[10:55] <screen-x> dogmatic69: system > administration > disk utility
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> System -> Administration -> Disk Utility
[10:55] <Severian> Insert the drive.  Run dmesg to see what drive letter it mounted as.  Fdisk the device.  make the filesystem.  You are done.
[10:55] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: ^5
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> Severian: no no no :)
[10:55] <Severian> yes yes yes
[10:56] <Severian> I have done it a bunch of times and never had a problem.
[10:56] <screen-x> Severian: it works, but there is a preference in here for telling people the graphical way of doing things if possible.
[10:56] <Severian> I like ext2 on flash drives.
[10:57] <Severian> OK.  I can accept following local standards.
[10:57] <dogmatic69> i clicked eject, then system -> admin -> disk utility, select the drive, format :: Error creating partition table: helper exited with exit code 1: cannot open /dev/sdb: No medium found
[10:58] <Severian> You want to unmount, not eject.
[10:59] <Severian> I have no idea if Drive utility expects it mounted or not.
[10:59] <MartijnVdS> you can unmount from the disk utility
[10:59] <screen-x> dogmatic69: you can unmount from within disk utility
[10:59] <MartijnVdS> it'll do whatever it wants for you
[10:59] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: haha, I'll leave you to it
[10:59] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: nah, you can help :)
[11:04] <dogmatic69> ok, so i created a new partition. ext2... then what?
[11:04] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: done?
[11:04] <dogmatic69> o.o
[11:04] <dogmatic69> no format?
[11:04] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:04] <dogmatic69> does not seem to show up now
[11:05] <screen-x> dogmatic69: click "mount volume" in disk utility
[11:06] <dogmatic69> ah... took a while
[11:06]  * screen-x goes to do some staff training :/
[11:06] <dogmatic69> 'mount' just showed up now
[11:06] <dogmatic69> thanks all
[11:06] <willy_1977> screen-x: good luck... :/
[11:08] <Severian> uninstalling unity also uninstalled ubuntu-desktop.  This may not work so well.
[11:08]  * willy_1977 just finished listening to the interview... 
[11:31]  * oimon is fighting with RHEL 6 ..and losing :(
[11:31] <directhex> good luck
[11:33] <smittix> Thank god for that, bloody payroll systems do my swede in/
[11:33]  * smittix gets back to his blog
[11:34] <Severian> My swede has not been paid.
[11:35] <smittix> heh
[11:36] <MooDoo> don't you plant swedes? lol
[11:36] <oimon> bah..it's really annoying when people get their email address wrong and subscribe you to unsubscribable email lists
[11:36] <MooDoo> 1300quid for a camera lens....sheeesh
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> I want a new TV.. but I don't want a new TV
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> (the new TV would have support for my sat setup, so I can get rid of one of my "black boxes")
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> (but my current TV is only 2 years old)
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> 3
[11:43] <smittix> Does the flickr box show up on my blog? http://www.aptgetmoo.co.uk ?
[11:44] <MooDoo> smittix: yes i can see the photography section
[11:44] <smittix> Well that's semi good
[11:44] <smittix> I cant see it heh
[11:45] <directhex> yes.
[11:50] <smittix> Bit of Clapton to get me through the day
[11:51] <diplo> smittix, what plugin is that for flickr ?
[11:51] <diplo> Wanted something similair myself
[11:56] <Myrtti> oof
[11:57] <directhex> ofo
[11:57] <Myrtti> is it really supposed to ... show the api key like that?
[11:58] <Myrtti> not that I know if that is safe or not, it just seems somehow wrong
[11:59] <Myrtti> ps. non-default favicon would be nice
[12:02] <smittix> Myrtti: Yeah, for some reason its not picking my FavIcon up. I will fix that
[12:03] <smittix> diplo: Twitter Tools!
[12:07] <smittix> Myrtti: New FavIcon should be showing
[12:07] <brobostigon> suggestions, something useful and constructive to do?
[12:09] <kirrus> brobostigon: run around outside in the sunshine?
[12:10] <BigRedS> Is there an easy way to get out of firefox from which IP address it's retrieving a website?
[12:10] <brobostigon> kirrus: hmm, running is maybe not a good idea, idont think my osteoporosis is going to like it much.
[12:10] <BigRedS> I can't work out what causes it to reparse /etc/hosts, but I know it does do it periodically
[12:10] <kirrus> brobostigon: :( Saunter then?
[12:10] <brobostigon> BigRedS: i wouldsuggest a ping from terminal, myself.
[12:11] <brobostigon> kirrus: saunter?
[12:12] <screen-x> brobostigon: gentle walk
[12:12] <brobostigon> screen-x: ah, yes maybe that is better, :)
[12:14] <BigRedS> brobostigon: nah, I wanna know what firefox specifically is doing - it keeps not having yet reread /etc/hosts for some reason...
[12:14] <screen-x> BigRedS: something like firebug that shows you the headers?
[12:14] <brobostigon> good thinking screen-x.
[12:14] <BigRedS> I've got the HTTP headers, but they're above IP/dns, so they're all using names
[12:15] <oimon> BigRedS: if this is a long term thing, then install a squid proxy and check the proxy logs
[12:15] <BigRedS> I'm currently using X-powered-by and knowing which version of PHP is on each server, but it strikes me there's probably a more sensible way of doing it
[12:15] <BigRedS> hah. google-fu works.
[12:15] <BigRedS> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/showip/
[12:16] <screen-x> sorted :)
[12:19] <caulkz> morning from a maverick user :)) x
[12:19] <oimon> guys, what;s the best password store on ubuntu? lastpass? keepassX? some other?
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> oimon: there isn't a "Best" one as such
[12:20] <MartijnVdS> oimon: only the one you prefer :)
[12:20] <oimon> features/drawbacks?
[12:20] <caulkz> hibernation/standby dont work on ubuntu, any sites that might hold info on this subject?
[12:21] <screen-x> oimon: I need one of those as well... I currently use a GPGd text file, which isn't the most convenient.
[12:21] <caulkz> apart from that, all is good with ubuntu :)
[12:21] <oimon> screen-x: i currently use firefox password manager - not ideal
[12:22] <oimon> i note keepassx is QT app
[12:22] <brobostigon> caulkz: it depends alot on the hw inquestion and its drivers, hiberntion/standby works absolutly as intended here on my eeepc for example.
[12:22] <caulkz> ok
[12:22] <smittix> oimon: I use Lastpass and keepass
[12:23] <oimon> smittix: anything you can tell me about them? i haven't really had time to look into it
[12:23] <oimon> i notice that firefox sync also syncs passwords...scary
[12:24] <screen-x> oimon: as does chrome now, I wouldn't trust it though.
[12:24] <smittix> oimon: https://lastpass.com/whylastpass_reviews.php
[12:25] <oimon> screen-x: no , i'd rather store my passwords on an encrypted usb stick i can lose :P
[12:25] <screen-x> oimon: ooh, I've done that as well, dropped it in a forest, and someone returned it to my boss *blush*
[12:25] <oimon> lol
[12:26] <screen-x> thankfully the passwords were GPGd and it was an ironkey..
[12:27] <oimon> smittix: thanks. not sure i need the browser integration
[12:27] <smittix> oimon: Then check out keepass
[12:27] <oimon> :)
[12:28] <directhex> but keepass is mono. o noez!
[12:28] <oimon> directhex: it's QT i think
[12:29] <directhex> keepassx is
[12:29] <oimon> directhex: somebody got excited on omgubuntu because they were recommending mono(chrome) icons. don't use mono they cried. biggest WHOOOSH ever.
[12:30] <oimon> if ever there's a case of some kid robotically repeating something he didn't understand, that was it
[12:30] <directhex> oimon, i love hearding stories of people who break their system by uninstalling ubuntu-mono, the package with those icons in
[12:30] <oimon> hehe
[12:36] <ali1234> the best password store on ubuntu is seahorse
[12:36] <ali1234> it's the best cos it's installed by default
[12:38] <oimon> anyone used revelation?
[12:40] <smittix> oimon: The Win32 app?
[12:40] <oimon> it's a gnome app smittix
[12:40] <smittix> ahh I thought you meant the password revelation app heh
[12:41] <oimon> ah... "NOTE: Revelation development stopped in 2007 - if anyone is willing to take over the project, contact me "
[12:43] <smittix> oimon: link?
[12:43] <ali1234> why you can't use seahorse for this?
[12:43] <oimon> http://oss.codepoet.no/revelation/wiki/Home smittix
[12:44] <smittix> ta
[12:44] <smittix> Alot of bugs to squash there
[12:45] <oimon> ali1234: i want to store the db on an encrypted  usb stick
[12:45] <Severian> Well, if you get rid of Unity, you should also run   "metacity --replace"  every time you boot.  Now, vnc works to the Natty box just fine.
[12:45] <Severian> Now, to see if I can get a taskbar again.
[12:45] <s-fox> gnome-look is still down :'(
[12:46] <eax> Hi, I'm having trouble installing mysql-query-browser through the repo. This is the error I get: The following packages have unmet dependencies: mysql-query-browser : Depends: libgtkhtml3.14-19 (< 1:3.31) but 1:3.32.2-0ubuntu1 is to be installed: Broken packages
[12:46] <eax> What can I do?
[12:46] <smittix> oimon: You can do that with Keepass/keepassX
[12:46] <oimon> smittix: yep, i've just installed it and as now populating it :)
[12:46] <BigRedS> Heh. Blackmarket ip4 addresses: http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog/_archives/2011/3/23/4778509.html
[12:47] <oimon> i have a spare public class C i'm not using
[12:47] <eax> BigRedS: Well, I guess they're selling everything now :P
[12:47] <Severian> eax.  See if you can find libgtkhtml3.14-19.  Install it yourseld and then install mysql-query-browser.
[12:47] <oimon> "The buyer of the addresses was Microsoft"
[12:47] <eax> Severian: I tried that, it's already installed :S
[12:47] <eax> oimon: Seriously?
[12:47] <BigRedS> oimon: presumably as an investment
[12:48] <BigRedS> I can't think MS need that many more ip4 addresses, but they're only going to go up in value until people get round to ip6
[12:48] <ali1234> was that story about the $75 trillion lawsuit the other day actually real or did i dream it?
[12:48] <eax> It was real
[12:48] <oimon> some companies have huge amounts of IP addresses. i bet sun had a lot
[12:49] <BigRedS> yeah, all the old ones got /8s
[12:49] <eax> Severian: It is installed and does not seem to be broken
[12:50] <oimon> JANET frown up NAT
[12:50] <oimon> up/upon
[12:50] <oimon> hmmm lunch
[12:51] <Severian> I'd check again.  It probably is the wrong version.  If you decide it really is all there, you can force the install of the package you want.  Download the .deb, and look at the options for dpkg.
[12:51] <eax> Severian: Hmm, okay, thanks :)
[12:52] <BigRedS> oimon: most people do, but most people don't have kit that does ip6 very well
[12:53] <Severian> That is a strange number of ip addresses to come up.  It is close to a /12 range, but not quite there.
[12:53] <eax> Severian: Where oh where can I actually get the .deb?
[12:53] <dogmatic69> how can i do tar and just have the folders from the path i specify?
[12:53] <Severian> I would get it from wherever synaptic would install from
[12:53] <eax> Okay, thanks
[12:54] <dogmatic69> tar -cf store.tar /var/www/LeanWebAppWebroot/app/store is what im doing but the ziped file has /var/www/LeanWebAppWebroot/app/store in it, instead of just the files in that path
[12:55] <dutchie> cd /var/www/LeanWebAppWebroot/app/store && tar -cf store.tar ./
[12:55] <dutchie> or probably cd /var/www/LeanWebAppWebroot/app && tar -cf store.tar store/
[12:56] <gord> someone needs to make an android live wallpaper -> Ubuntu live wallpaper converter, some of them are damn pretty
[12:57] <dogmatic69> dutchie: ok, so go to the dir, and tar it to ~/home/backups/something.tar
[12:57] <dogmatic69> makes sense, sort of :D
[12:57] <dogmatic69> thanks
[12:59] <Severian> eax, so In my case I would start at http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz    and end up looking in http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/m/mysql-query-browser/
[12:59] <eax> Severian: Thanks :)
[12:59] <Severian> That may not be right for you.  It depends on your ubuntu version.
[13:00] <eax> I'm using Natty :)
[13:02] <Severian> eax, so download the packages file for Natty, unzip it and see if that is the same end file for you. My guess is yes, but I would not install without checking.
[13:02] <eax> I found the correct one :)
[13:02] <Severian> Have a good day.  I am off for some sleep.
[13:03] <eax> Thanks, sleep tight :)
[13:03] <SuperMatt> anyone running natty on two monitors?
[13:05] <eax> SuperMatt: I used to, actually on 3, but two of them wrecked themselves within one month >>
[13:06] <SuperMatt> heh
[13:06] <SuperMatt> did you have a panel on both screens?
[13:06] <eax> Yup
[13:07] <gord> SuperMatt, your supposed to have a panel on both screens
[13:07] <SuperMatt> curses
[13:07] <SuperMatt> I was hoping maybe I could get rid of the panel on the second screen
[13:08] <SuperMatt> it's not the end of the world, mind
[13:16] <dogmatic69> i just downloaded ubuntu server, the install is asking install server / enterprise cloud. is there a big difference?
[13:16] <dogmatic69> they both free / open source?
[13:16] <MartijnVdS> yes
[13:16] <MartijnVdS> but the enterprise cloud thing is something different
[13:17] <dogmatic69> i wanted the same type of thing that is on amazon really
[13:17] <dogmatic69> root + ubuntu user and sudo does not require pw
[13:17] <MartijnVdS> why would you want that?
[13:18] <dogmatic69> because im running it on vm to play with
[13:18] <dogmatic69> setting it up for the ubuntu noobs to learn in the office
[13:19] <czajkowski> c
[13:22] <dogmatic69> :/ downloaded the x64 version... not working on virtualbox / i3
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> x64 version works fine on my i3
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> don't use virtualbox, use kvm
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> + virt-manager
[13:24] <screen-x> \o/ external meeting just finished == free food
[13:25]  * smittix loves free food at meetings
[13:26] <directhex> that's sadly something i don't see anymore with new job
[13:26] <directhex> overall fewer perks too... but i needed a change
[13:26] <ging> is there as simple method of changing a server install into a desktop install?
[13:27] <gord> ging, install ubuntu-desktop
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> ging: yes, install the "ubuntu-desktop" package
[13:27] <ging> meh
[13:27] <ging> tha's too easy
[13:27] <ging> (thanks)
[13:28] <gord> oh there are harder ways
[13:28] <gord> for example, you could get an electron microscope and an extremely find laser to craft the desktop install on to a server install
[13:29] <screen-x> directhex: interesting job > free food
[13:29] <directhex> gord, manly men use chaos butterflies for that
[13:29] <ging> gord: i'll keep that as a backup plan
[13:42]  * smittix Is sitting in his garden
[13:42] <dogmatic69> dutchie: thanks for the tar help. got it without the full path, but now its just got a dot folder /./<files>
[13:43] <dutchie> how did you make it in the end?
[13:44] <dogmatic69> like you said, cd /some/path, tar -cf file.tar *.* (tried a few things)
[13:44] <dutchie> i would not recommend that
[13:44] <dogmatic69> oh
[13:44] <dutchie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarbomb#Tarbomb for a start
[13:44] <ali1234> *.*? really?
[13:46] <screen-x> ali1234: gotta match all those 8.3 filenames
[13:46] <kaushal_> hi
[13:46] <kaushal_> how do i install Firefox 4 in 10.10 ?
[13:46] <dogmatic69> add the ppa
[13:46] <MooDoo> kaushal_: add the ppa and apt-get it
[13:46] <MooDoo> :)
[13:47] <kaushal_> dogmatic69: is it safe to use it ?
[13:47] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: too quick
[13:47] <MooDoo> :)
[13:47] <screen-x> !ff4
[13:47]  * dogmatic69 answered a question \o/
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> kaushal_: what happened when you tried?
[13:47] <smittix> kaushal_: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:mozillateam/firefox-stable
[13:47] <screen-x> :(
[13:47] <smittix> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
[13:47] <kaushal_> I havenot tried
[13:47] <dogmatic69> kaushal_: yes
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> hmm fresh tea
[13:50] <kaushal_> dogmatic69: also what are the pros and cons of using ppa from security point of view ?
[13:50] <smittix> Try and stick to official trusted PPA's
[13:51] <dogmatic69> kaushal_: one like that is ~= as good as apt-get normal stuff
[13:51] <smittix> MartijnVdS: Get me one
[13:51] <MartijnVdS> smittix: brew your own :)
[13:51] <kaushal_> smittix: can you please paste me the official trusted PPA's ?
[13:51] <dogmatic69> using ppa's on random unknown software could have root kits etc... fx4 i doubt
[13:51] <smittix> Worth a try
[13:52] <smittix> kaushal_: I just did, It was mozilla's ppa
[13:52] <dogmatic69> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/firefox-4-ppa-for-ubuntu-10-04-and-10-10-users/
[13:52] <kaushal_> smittix: yeah
[13:53] <dogmatic69> that is as 'official' as it gets
[13:53] <kaushal_> but any wiki ?
[13:53] <kaushal_> which says about trusted PPA's ?
[13:53] <dogmatic69> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ubuntu+ppa
[13:53] <kaushal_> I mean list of PPA's
[13:53] <dogmatic69> info -> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
[13:54] <kaushal_> dogmatic69: ok
[13:54] <dogmatic69> just because it is on launchpad does not make it safe btw
[13:54] <dogmatic69> but 99% of the time it will be ok
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> Because it's on launchpad, it's easy to remove (by the launchpad admins) once it's discovered to be "bad"
[13:58] <ging> ah i was so close to having a working linux desktop again
[13:58] <ging> i even had gdm working
[13:59] <ging> then i installed ubuntu-desktop and it won't boot
[13:59] <Myrtti> wont boot or wont login?
[14:00] <ging> won't boot
[14:00] <ging> i dont even see grub
[14:00] <ging> do you normally see the grub menu on 10.04 ?
[14:00] <Myrtti> no
[14:00] <Myrtti> you have to press shift at boot to get it
[14:01] <ging> won't even go into recovery mode
[14:02] <Myrtti> in the menu?
[14:02] <ging> yeah but it won't boot
[14:02] <Myrtti> so now you got to the menu, that's good
[14:02] <ging> gord: where is that laser ?
[14:03] <gord> ging, go through the grub recovery thingy?
[14:03] <ging> gord: it wont even boot to recovery mode
[14:09] <ging> ubuntu hates me
[14:09] <oimon> what's the error?
[14:12] <ging> oimon: dont know tried 4 times to catch it but the screen clears too quickly to read it
[14:12] <oimon> then what? blank screen?
[14:12] <ging> yeah
[14:12] <oimon> you could also try pressing ctrl-alt f1 , f2 , f3, etc
[14:13] <oimon> to see if any info
[14:13] <oimon> also, edit your grub line to remove "quiet splash"
[14:17] <gregoryfenton> Have you tried pressing the up arrow while booting to show the output window?
[14:23] <dogmatic69> ok, so here is my bash script so far... still cant get rid of the /./ folder in the tar :/
[14:23] <dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/327088225
[14:25] <ging> it's something to do with ureadahead
[14:25] <ging> there are bug reports
[14:25] <ging> but not many solutions
[14:26] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: tarring tarballs seems a bit excessive in terms of disk usage
[14:27] <BigRedS> just the amount needed to create the backup
[14:27] <dogmatic69> just a tutorial i found and modded
[14:27] <BigRedS> ahh
[14:27] <dogmatic69> well i just tar the files together to make it easy to store on amazon
[14:27] <dogmatic69> one file vs 3
[14:27] <BigRedS> Also, 777ing files is generally bad. Moreso backups
[14:27] <dogmatic69> ye, gonna take that out
[14:28] <BigRedS> Yeah, but rather than one tar of three tars each of one directory, I'd just have one tarball of three dirs
[14:28] <dogmatic69> it will use aws thing, move it to s3 and then rm localy
[14:28] <BigRedS> if those dirs add up to 2GB, you need 2GB to create the three tarballs, then another 2GB to create the final one. If you just add them all to the same tarball, you only need the 2GB to create it
[14:29] <dogmatic69> im just trying to make it easy to also revert to a backup
[14:29] <dogmatic69> ok
[14:29] <dogmatic69> its quite small for now
[14:29] <dogmatic69> think ill look at a proper backup solution at some point... just quick and dirty for now
[14:30] <dogmatic69> well dirty, its not been so quick :D
[14:32] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: you know how i could then, from /var/www/LeanWebAppWebroot/app tar just the two folders?
[14:33] <BigRedS> haha, yeah. I'm just looking for things to do that aren't chrooting ssh, and criticising someone elses bash script seemed like a good place to start :)
[14:33] <BigRedS> what I'd do is create a tar archive of one of the directories, then add the other two to it
[14:34] <BigRedS> I can't remember the switch, I think it's just add=FILENAME
[14:36] <hamitron> :)
[14:36] <dogmatic69> hehe, its my first #!/bin/sh
[14:37] <dogmatic69> knock it all you like :)
[14:37] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: haha, awesome. I don't have any other suggestions really, though. Except to not do it in bash ;)
[14:38] <hamitron> don't bash bash :/
[14:38] <BigRedS> I have a general distaste for bash scripting, but admittedly that is the sort of job that should really be done in it
[14:38] <BigRedS> though it's worth being aware of the differences between bash and sh - if you do #!/bin/sh there are instances where any bashisms you use will fail, since /bin/sh isn't quite always just a link to bash
[14:38] <dogmatic69> o.o
[14:39] <dogmatic69> i noticed last night trying to do shell_exec() php stuff building a git web app
[14:39] <dogmatic69> shell_exec('git shortlog') != git shortlog in bash/shell/terminal whatever you call it
[14:40] <MartijnVdS> probably because it doesn't get a terminal
[14:40] <MartijnVdS> and behaves differently if STDIN != terminal
[14:41] <dogmatic69> ye
[14:42] <dogmatic69> shell_exec('git shortlog HEAD') == git shortlog in terminal
[14:43] <screen-x> dogmatic69: php git bindings, not used them though, so don't know how good they are https://github.com/libgit2/php-git
[14:45] <dogmatic69> screen-x: nice
[14:45] <dogmatic69> will check that out
[14:50] <screen-x> dogmatic69: looks alphaish, but could be better than calling git binaries.
[14:50] <dogmatic69> ye
[14:50] <dogmatic69> code comments, non existent... but im sure its better than exec() + preg_match()
[14:51] <screen-x> dogmatic69: there may also be better competing projects..
[14:52] <dogmatic69> doubt it
[14:52] <dogmatic69> there is no decent os 'github' application around
[14:52] <dogmatic69> gitosis looks good (ror) but omg, pain to install
[14:53] <BigRedS> My brother found one that looked reasonable not that long ago
[14:54] <BigRedS> well, read-only webfrontend to git
[14:54] <dogmatic69> ye, i was looking for a read only web frontend
[14:54] <dogmatic69> not interested in committing from the web
[14:54] <dogmatic69> viewgit is what im using atm
[14:55] <dogmatic69> its ok, very basic
[14:58] <screen-x> dogmatic69: have you looked at gitorious, I think thats open source
[14:58] <screen-x> in fact the source is available in gitorious.. http://gitorious.org/gitorious/mainline/trees/master its rails though.
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: I keep thinking of Duran Duran.. "Git.. Git.. Gitorious"
[14:59] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: I'm afraid thats lost on me
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGDmBLAPikU
[15:00] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: hmm, ist that the original? if so I've heard a cover before..
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notorious_(song)
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> "Notorious" is the 14th single by Duran Duran. It was released internationally by EMI on 20 October 1986
[15:01] <oimon> any wordpress users find that when typing wysiwyg, it often duplicates whole chunks of text ?
[15:02] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: sampled in "Notorious B.I.G." which Is prob why I recognise.
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: 80s++ :)
[15:04] <hamitron> geez
[15:04] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: hm?
[15:04] <hamitron> a cheap 350W psu I had laid around makes a lot of noise
[15:04] <hamitron> sounds like a jet aircraft
[15:04] <hamitron> :s
[15:04] <screen-x> hamitron: did you nick it out of a powemac g4?
[15:04] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: play some loud music
[15:05] <hamitron> it is going to have to go
[15:06] <hamitron> tbh, the air coming out is pretty hot
[15:06] <hamitron> hehe
[15:07] <hamitron> motherboard states 350W psu min, but it has a pentiumd cpu
[15:07] <hamitron> so mayb expecting too much of the poor thing
[15:14]  * smittix really needs to stop playing hedgewars
[15:14] <willy_1977> hamitron: it must be the season for it my psu went the other week. :( I'd had a clear out though of old kit... doh!
[15:16] <hamitron> a few of us are having psu issues it seems :)
[15:19] <willy_1977> hamitron: yep, I took it to the local parts supplier and there was much sucking of air through teeth and shaking of head... and much "300w it's tiny... "
[15:20] <willy_1977> to which I replied I'm not surprised it's 6/7 years sold :p
[15:21] <directhex> (using a low-wattage PSU isn't being environmentally conscious)
[15:21] <oimon> seen this? http://investors.redhat.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=559647
[15:22] <MartijnVdS> oimon: ah, good newses?
[15:22] <willy_1977> directhex: absolutely agree but it's one of those things that is the last to get changed (i.e. when it breaks) or the new kit you want in the case needs more power...
[15:22] <oimon>  CEO Jim Whitehurst said that the company on its way to become "the first pure-play open source company to achieve a billion dollars in revenues next fiscal year
[15:23]  * willy_1977 doesn't think of that as a valid excuse though...
[15:23] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: indefero, apparently. But it's not quite a github clone.
[15:23] <willy_1977> oimon: interesting news.
[15:25] <oimon> hmm, miguel de icaza is posting ipad blogposts onto gnome planet
[15:25] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: ah, that is more like a pm tool with git support
[15:28] <directhex> oimon, planet gnome is not about gnome.
[15:29] <czajkowski> oimon: a planet should have lots of diversity on it, otherwise it gets boring to read.
[15:29] <czajkowski> it's for a community so by real people
[15:29] <oimon> directhex: it seems strange to me that so many prominent OSS guys bang on about their apple products
[15:30] <czajkowski> it is nice hardware and has damn good battery life on their products
[15:30] <czajkowski> :s
[15:30] <directhex> Planet GNOME is a window into the world, work and lives of GNOME hackers and contributors.
[15:31] <MooDoo> oh no not this old chestnut again
[15:31] <MooDoo> :D
[15:31] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: ah. I've never actually seen it
[15:31] <BigRedS> I've just spoken about it to him, and he's stopped using it, too
[15:31] <dogmatic69> ye, its got a bug tracker, code review etc etc
[15:32] <MooDoo> generally unless made specific can be about anything :)
[15:32] <MooDoo> planet sites i'm referring too :)
[15:32] <BigRedS> oimon: mostly, OSS guys are the sorts of people who put a bunch of thought into computery products, and they're also prone to argument. The two, when mixed, lead to vociferous Macbook vs Thinkpad discussions
[15:33] <directhex> bigcalm, dell latitude!
[15:48]  * bigcalm pokes directhex
[15:49] <brobostigon> any ideas, i am  trying to get twirssi working, i installed Net::Twitter, but am still getting errors when tring to load twirssi,
[15:49] <directhex> \o/
[15:49]  * bigcalm thinks that directhex needs to double check his tab completes
[15:49] <brobostigon> 15:48:06 -!- Irssi: Error in script twirssi:
[15:49] <brobostigon> 15:48:06 Attempt to reload Net/Twitter.pm aborted.
[15:49] <brobostigon> 15:48:06 Compilation failed in require at /home/ptaylor-eeepc/.irssi/scripts/twirssi.pl line 12.
[15:49] <brobostigon> oh, sorry.
[15:49] <directhex> bigcalm, that too
[15:50] <brobostigon> any ideas?
[15:51] <hamitron> directhex: in terms of power in vs power out?
[15:51] <directhex> hamitron, ?
[15:51] <hamitron> using a lower power psu
[15:52] <hamitron> not being green, etc
[15:53] <hamitron> I'll keep my 350W for a lower power system, as it is a shame to send to a landfill
[15:53] <directhex> hamitron, yeah, in terms of power in vs power out.
[15:54] <directhex> hamitron, there's the question of efficiency - older supplies can be really poor on that - and efficiency runs on a curve too (so you may need to buy a supply which is efficient for your power load, which may not be the one you expect)
[15:55] <hamitron> yeh
[15:55] <hamitron> any idea how much energy is used to build a PSU, compared to what you'd waste using one not so good?
[15:56] <directhex> no. ultimately they're just steel and a bunch of capacitors, so compare to something like an amp
[15:56] <hamitron> I'm not sure about either tbh
[15:56] <hamitron> I just tend to use things till they die, unless it is something I use a lot
[15:58] <hamitron> like for day to day use I like my lcd
[15:58] <hamitron> but crt is fine for my less used machines
[15:58] <hamitron> the investment required to change them is not worth the energy saving
[15:59] <bigcalm> Can I use mod_headers with mod_rewrite and thus set headers based upon the agent being used?
[16:01]  * hamitron shrugs
[16:01] <hamitron> ;)
[16:03] <oimon> hamitron: you might be able to pick up lcd monitors from freecycle
[16:03] <hamitron> oimon: that is actually a damn good idea
[16:03] <oimon> i've given a good few away to charities and other people. i still have a 18inch NEC LCD under my desk that was £800 when new :S
[16:03] <hamitron> ty
[16:04] <screen-x> oimon: I got rid of a couple on freecycle, one of which worked quite well..
[16:04] <hamitron> do you just pay delivery or what?
[16:04] <oimon> i prefer my dell 17 inch ones since the bezel/surround is too big on the nec
[16:04] <screen-x> hamitron: no, you have to go and get it
[16:04] <oimon> freecycle tends to be local
[16:04] <hamitron> k
[16:04] <oimon> or freegle is another site similar
[16:05] <hamitron> never carried an LCD on a motorbike ;)
[16:05] <hamitron> reckon it would be ok?
[16:05] <hamitron> :D
[16:05] <oimon> i carried one in a rucksack by removing the stand
[16:05] <oimon> the actual lcd unit isn't bulky
[16:05] <oimon> only when attached
[16:06] <hamitron> tbh, it isn't really green travelling far
[16:06] <screen-x> hamitron: but greener on a bike..
[16:06] <hamitron> I only get 40mpg
[16:06] <hamitron> haha
[16:06] <oimon> wow
[16:06] <hamitron> 45 if I am careful with the juice
[16:06] <screen-x> hamitron: why?
[16:06] <oimon> my car does better than that
[16:06] <BigRedS> hamitron: how big? you can get all sorts on a motorbike
[16:06] <dogmatic69> ok, working backup script to s3 http://bin.cakephp.org/view/327088225
[16:06] <dogmatic69> what is the best way to enter the mysql pw for crons?
[16:06] <hamitron> it is only 400cc, but 1980
[16:06] <hamitron> :)
[16:07] <screen-x> ahh
[16:07] <BigRedS> hamitron: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_RsV1BFhY1_U/SoVI3xGfYqI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/Uj5XLWKVFCo/s800/2009-08-13%2018.55.11.jpg
[16:07] <hamitron> I am considering a bike that gets about 85mpg
[16:07] <screen-x> whats that BigRedS?
[16:07] <BigRedS> screen-x: a pic of a bike box on a bike
[16:07] <BigRedS> I think
[16:07] <screen-x> specialised..
[16:07] <BigRedS> picasa doesn't always do what I think it does
[16:07] <hamitron> haha
[16:07] <BigRedS> and I thought I copied the shorter link, but clearly not
[16:07] <brobostigon> any twirssi users able to point me atwhere i am failing?
[16:08]  * oimon wishes picasa was FLOSS 
[16:08] <BigRedS> Oh, it's an empty box, I was packing my bike to go to france
[16:08] <BigRedS> but, yeah, that's the BigRedS I got my name from
[16:08] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: in the crontab. Just make it readable only to root, or whichever user is running it
[16:08] <hamitron> BigRedS: what mpg you get?
[16:09] <screen-x> BigRedS: ahhhhhh
[16:09] <BigRedS> hamitron: on that, ~55mph, sometimes 60ish. But I don't ride that any more.
[16:09] <BigRedS> my Pan gets ~50mpg, my old CX about 30
[16:09] <hamitron> mine is a wetdream :)
[16:09] <BigRedS> oddly, the pan is most efficient at about 70mph, which is nice
[16:10] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: like store the pw in the script?
[16:10] <BigRedS> yeah
[16:11] <dogmatic69> k
[16:11] <popey> brobostigon: what guide are you following to install it?
[16:12] <brobostigon> popey: the one on their site.
[16:12] <popey> http://twirssi.com/?installing
[16:12] <popey> that one?
[16:13] <brobostigon> yes.
[16:13] <popey> what goes wrong?
[16:14] <BigRedS> hamitron: cb250?
[16:14] <brobostigon> popey: the error above that i posted, whenn i try and load twirssi in irssi,
[16:15] <popey> it needs a perl dependancy
[16:15] <hamitron> BigRedS: 400 version
[16:15] <hamitron> :)
[16:15] <popey> Net::Twitter
[16:15] <popey> brobostigon: libnet-twitter-perl
[16:15] <hamitron> CB400N
[16:15] <popey> install that
[16:15] <brobostigon> popey: ok, one minute.
[16:16] <brobostigon> popey: installed.
[16:17] <popey> now try loading twirssi again
[16:17] <brobostigon> just did, same error.
[16:17] <popey> iiiinteresting
[16:19] <brobostigon> popey: umm, any further ideas?
[16:19] <brobostigon> please.
[16:23] <dogmatic69> ive made a function inside a bash script, does not seem like i can use 'clear' inside the function... any reason for this?
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> woo, edge snapping works again
[16:23] <BigRedS> hamitron: ahhh, I'm crap at that sort of era :) I just got the CX 'cause it sounds awesome
[16:24] <dogmatic69> clear works outside the function, inside not :/
[16:25] <popey> brobostigon: can you pastebin what happens when you unload and reload twirssi?
[16:25] <hamitron> BigRedS: mine is basically a baby CX
[16:25] <dogmatic69> o.o
[16:25] <screen-x> dogmatic69: ls; function c(){ clear; }; c
[16:25] <dogmatic69> man, this bash stuff is wierd
[16:25] <screen-x> dogmatic69: that seems to work
[16:25] <hamitron> engine mounted too high and falls over in corners
[16:26] <hamitron> but I love the styling
[16:26] <hamitron> :)
[16:26] <dogmatic69> screen-x: i had function something{ clear }
[16:26] <hamitron> and sound ;)
[16:26] <brobostigon> popey: yes, one minute,
[16:28] <brobostigon> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/584891/
[16:28] <popey> brobostigon: pastebin /home/ptaylor-eeepc/.irssi/scripts/twirssi.pl
[16:28] <popey> pls
[16:29] <brobostigon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/584892/
[16:30] <popey> brobostigon: dpkg -l libnet-twitter-perl
[16:32] <BigRedS> hamitron: does it have a sideways v-twin, though? :)
[16:32] <BigRedS> I can replace my spark plugs *on the move* :)
[16:32] <SuperMatt> dammit, found a unity bug
[16:32] <brobostigon> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/584893/
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: welcome to the club
[16:33] <hamitron> BigRedS: http://www.hamitron.demon.co.uk/pics/bike.jpg
[16:33] <hamitron> no ;/
[16:34] <BigRedS> haha, yes, I know those! yours looks in considerably better condition than mine, though
[16:34] <hamitron> it is my baby :)
[16:35] <BigRedS> I love my CX, but it breaks down about every six miles. Only feasible to ride it in the summer :)
[16:35] <hamitron> I like retro bikes
[16:35] <BigRedS> I _really_ need to replace the loom
[16:35] <hamitron> I wanted a CX
[16:35] <hamitron> but read it needs leaded petrol?
[16:35] <MooDoo> czajkowski: prod.....
[16:36] <hamitron> now I want an enfield :)
[16:36]  * MooDoo is looking forward to his ride home :)
[16:36] <BigRedS> it's awesome. Such a great bike to ride
[16:36] <czajkowski> MooDoo: better be worth it, distrubing me
[16:36] <BigRedS> nah, this one wants (well, appears to be happy with) unleaded
[16:36] <MooDoo> czajkowski: nope i'm here just to annoy xx
[16:36] <BigRedS> it's '81, and unleaded was normal mid-seventies I thought?
[16:36] <czajkowski> MooDoo: >:(
[16:37] <BigRedS> Going with my Dad tomorrow to pick up his new Bonneville :)
[16:37] <hamitron> BigRedS: I read the CX needed some additive to lower running temps
[16:37]  * bigcalm wants chocolate now
[16:37] <SuperMatt> this bug won't get fixed, dammit
[16:37] <SuperMatt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/741869
[16:37] <hamitron> but mine runs hot too tbh
[16:38] <willy_1977> bigcalm: bourneville by any chance?
[16:38] <BigRedS> hamitron: yeah, it does run hot, but I think that's mostly innefectual cooling...
[16:38] <oimon> notes that the bike discussion started when we were discussing lcd monitors lol
[16:38] <bigcalm> willy_1977: funny that
[16:38] <BigRedS> the current breakage is a leaky radiatior, thinking about it
[16:39] <popey> SuperMatt: what is virtual machine manager?
[16:39] <popey> brobostigon: hmm
[16:39] <hamitron> I just want a BIG single :)
[16:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: virt-manager
[16:39] <oimon> is that kvm virt-manager SuperMatt
[16:39] <oimon> ugliest piece of softare i ever used
[16:40] <SuperMatt> popey: it's an application to manage kvm virtual machines (and others)
[16:40] <popey> ahh
[16:40] <SuperMatt> oimon: yes it is
[16:40]  * popey wonders if the developers would know this detail
[16:40] <popey> and whether more detail on the bug report might help
[16:41] <popey> who knows perl?
[16:41] <popey> use Net::Twitter qw/3.11009/;
[16:41] <SuperMatt> popey: it's probably something that the devs of virt-manager will have to fix, but it's only since unity has come in that there has been a problem, so unity has changed some behaviour somewhere which has broken another app
[16:41] <popey> ii  libnet-twitter-per 3.14002-1
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> popey: I do, what's the problem :)
[16:41]  * BigRedS knows some perl
[16:41] <popey> what does the qw/ mean?
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> popey: "quote word"
[16:42] <BigRedS> it's a quoting mechanism
[16:42] <popey> so its saying "you must have Net::Twitter 3.11009 ?
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> popey: it makes every word (separated by whitespace) into a string and returns an array of those strings
[16:42] <BigRedS> space-separated list
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> popey: yes
[16:42] <popey> not "or above"?
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> popey: it's "at least"
[16:42] <popey> ok
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> popey: try (for any perl module):
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> perl -MNet::Twitter\ 123455
[16:42] <SuperMatt> popey: I also note that, although it hasn't altered the behaviour of vinegare, it does make the search thing open in the background
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> popey: it'll tell you which version Perl thinks you have
[16:43]  * popey points MartijnVdS at brobostigon 
[16:43] <SuperMatt> oh no wait, no it hasn't
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ^
[16:43] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: o/
[16:43] <SuperMatt> wait, yes it has
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: try that -- "perl -MNet::Twitter\ 980938409" (or any large number really)
[16:44] <brobostigon> Net::Twitter version 980938409 required--this is only version 3.15.
[16:44] <brobostigon> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted.
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: See.. you have 3.15 :)
[16:45] <popey> ok
[16:45] <oimon> SuperMatt: i would add a comment to tell them which package to add in order to test this. as you say, virt-manager is a redhat app..so good luck with that
[16:45] <popey> so why is this happening:- http://paste.ubuntu.com/584891/
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> Because irssi already has a copy of Net::Twitter loaded
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> (which might be an old version)
[16:45] <popey> ahhhh
[16:45] <popey> how can you unload?
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> not really.. you can fake it by some Perl magic
[16:46] <MartijnVdS> delete $INC{"Net/Twitter.pm"};
[16:46] <MartijnVdS> that or restart irssi
[16:48] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hmm, ok.
[16:53] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: restarting irssi seems to have made it load.
[17:00] <bigcalm> Near enought 5pm, can I take the rest of the day off?
[17:01] <gord> 5pm and no "your product has shipped" from amazon, my life is over :(
[17:01] <popey> 3DS?
[17:01] <bigcalm> You'll that that email at 11pm
[17:01] <gord> 3ds
[17:02] <bigcalm> I hear that they don't work for pirates
[17:02] <gord> status hasn't even changed to "shipping soon" yet
[17:02] <popey> YARRRR!
[17:02] <bigcalm> popey: that's them
[17:03] <gord> most annoying thing is that people that pre-ordered last night are saying they got the email, have those people no soul?
[17:03] <bigcalm> Not now, no
[17:09] <hamitron> I'm never using the pre-order again at amazon after the hassles I had last time
[17:09] <hamitron> :/
[17:10] <willy_1977> from this am finally had chance to look at mono great job... hopefully I'm preaching to the converted here though... :D
[17:11] <czajkowski> gord: ipad2?
[17:11] <gord> czajkowski, 3ds
[17:11] <Azelphur> Haha, just had someone on my TF2 server chanting about how X sucks and Y sucks until we asked him to stop or he gets a mute, then he started ranting about how we don't allow constructive critism :D
[17:11] <Azelphur> clearly someones confused on the constructive part of criticism :D
[17:13] <willy_1977> Azelphur: did you manage to constructively criticise his/her "constructive criticisim"?
[17:13] <Azelphur> I think so :D
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> yo, dawg?
[17:13] <hamitron> nothing wrong with a bit of moaning and grumbling imho
[17:13] <hamitron> ;/
[17:14] <willy_1977> hamitron: of course not for goodness sake whatever next... no moaning indeed.
[17:14] <Azelphur> hamitron: haha, I'm all up for grumbling but when it's just "admins suck" "maps suck" "server sucks" "tf2 sucks" over the space of 30 minutes it gets old :D
[17:14] <hamitron> guess so :)
[17:14] <willy_1977> admins suck
[17:14] <MartijnVdS> fixing > whining
[17:14] <Azelphur> hamitron: was even more funny when he spent the next 5 minutes solid trying to reconnect to said sucky server :)
[17:14] <hamitron> hehe
[17:15] <willy_1977> not really of curse :)
[17:15] <willy_1977> *course
[17:15] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:15] <willy_1977> ha did the fellow get back in?
[17:15] <hamitron> I probably moan weekly about certain things, but that is ok I suppose
[17:16]  * willy_1977 has to polish his boots...
[17:16] <hamitron> talking of gaming.... not seen many on minecraft lately
[17:16] <hamitron> on popey's server
[17:16] <Azelphur> hamitron: I'm on my mc server :D
[17:17] <hamitron> what sort of server?
[17:17] <directhex> does it have portals?
[17:17] <Azelphur> yes it has portals, mobs enabled
[17:17] <hamitron> eiiwwwww to portals :/
[17:17] <willy_1977> or does it have a 128k expansion pack?
[17:17] <willy_1977> :p
[17:17] <Azelphur> directhex: you mean portals like stargate mod rather than nether right?
[17:17] <hamitron> constructive or destructive?
[17:18] <Azelphur> constructive :)
[17:18] <Azelphur> and optional PvP
[17:18] <popey> hamitron: i was on last night for a bit
[17:18] <popey> as was dsas :)
[17:18] <hamitron> popey: I will be back on, just been busy
[17:18] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:18] <hamitron> so don't delete my work!
[17:18] <hamitron> ;/
[17:18] <directhex> Azelphur, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PBIqoBP_y4
[17:19] <Azelphur> directhex: oh, haha :D
[17:21] <popey> "work" you say hamitron
[17:22] <Azelphur> directhex: my server has stargates like in the TV show, similar in construction to nether portals
[17:23] <gord> feels like the rate of new stuff in minecraft has slowed down substantially - shame really
[17:23] <popey> yeah
[17:24] <popey> 1.4 needs to hurry up
[17:24] <Azelphur> there was a group that apparently got angry about lack of updates and fired the DDoS cannon the other day
[17:24] <hamitron> popey: hell yes! it is like a piece of art damn it
[17:24] <gord> how many releases has their been since january?
[17:24] <bigcalm> Azelphur: how meture
[17:24] <hamitron> not work work though :)
[17:24] <gord> back when i used to play there was a release every friday
[17:24] <Azelphur> bigcalm: indeed
[17:25] <directhex> releases are bad
[17:25] <directhex> they mean needing to patch in a new lwjgl every time
[17:26] <gord> do they know that their version sucks?
[17:26] <gord> i don't think they test much/ever on linux
[17:27] <gord> hasn't really been much interesting added since the halloween update :( note blocks were cool but i don't have the patience to do anything interesting with them
[17:27] <dutchie> beds are handy
[17:27] <dutchie> wolves could be nice
[17:27] <hamitron> weather would be nice
[17:27] <hamitron> ;)
[17:27] <directhex> yay beds
[17:27] <directhex> i await ak-47s
[17:28] <hamitron> hehe
[17:28] <gord> we used to have weather, at least, it would snow
[17:28] <hamitron> why no snow now?
[17:28] <gord> biomes broke it
[17:28] <hamitron> :/
[17:28] <hamitron> could have sledges and stuff
[17:29] <hamitron> roads and cars
[17:29] <popey> i like the new sleep-sets-your-spawn thing
[17:30] <hamitron> planes
[17:30] <popey> haha
[17:30] <popey> map would get huge
[17:30] <gord> new enemies would be nice, passive stuff like squids i'm not interested in, right now there are far too many creepers - i stopped being interested in building stuff because it always gets blown up
[17:30] <hamitron> A-bombs
[17:30] <popey> needs bots to do your work for you
[17:30] <hamitron> haha, bots :D
[17:30] <popey> workers, you command, then go offline, come back to diamonds :)
[17:30] <hamitron> bigger worlds
[17:30] <popey> maybe we should hire some amazon mechanical turks to do our mining!
[17:30] <hamitron> :)
[17:31] <hamitron> how close to the limit is your server popey?
[17:31] <popey> what limit?
[17:31] <hamitron> it must have a limit?
[17:31]  * popey shrugs
[17:31] <dutchie> ttp://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1032&t=216834
[17:31] <dutchie> oops
[17:31] <dutchie> http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1032&t=216834
[17:32] <gord> hamitron, like map size?
[17:32] <gord> iirc the theoretical limit is something like 8 times the area of earth
[17:33] <hamitron> gord: so we better not explore too far ;)
[17:34] <popey> haha, that grey goo is mental
[17:34] <popey> Usage of /:   91.3% of 105.52GB
[17:34] <popey> Memory usage: 60%
[17:34] <popey> Swap usage:   14%
[17:34] <hamitron> popey: not all minecraft? ;/
[17:34] <hamitron> I hope
[17:34] <popey> yes
[17:34] <hamitron> omfg
[17:35] <popey> mostly backups
[17:35] <hamitron> ah :)
[17:35] <popey> alan@hatar:~$ du -hs /home/minecraft/backups/
[17:35] <popey> 72G     /home/minecraft/backups/
[17:35] <hamitron> how often you backup?
[17:35] <popey> hourly
[17:35] <Azelphur> popey: doesn't rsnapshot cover that?
[17:36] <popey> i locally backup on the machine hourly
[17:36] <popey> then rsnapshot copies it off later
[17:36] <hamitron> wouldn't daily be ok? ;/
[17:36]  * popey shrugs
[17:36] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:36] <popey> doesn't matter, i can bin all of feb now knowing its backed up
[17:36] <Azelphur> popey: have you heard of the logblock plugin btw?
[17:36] <popey> no, sounds fun
[17:37] <popey> lrwxrwxrwx 1 minecraft minecraft   53 2011-03-24 16:45 current.tgz -> /home/minecraft/backups/2011/03/24/world_16.45.11.tgz
[17:37] <Azelphur> it is, it logs every single block placement/remove for players and allows for reverts
[17:37] <popey> cunning
[17:37] <Azelphur> so if fred comes and sets fire to your house, you can ban fred, then /lb rollback player fred
[17:37] <Azelphur> and bam your house is back
[17:37] <popey> hehe
[17:37] <hamitron> I don't like that
[17:37] <hamitron> ;)
[17:37] <popey> select * from blocks where user = 'hamitron'
[17:37] <Azelphur> indeed xD
[17:37] <popey> drop table blocks
[17:37] <popey> :)
[17:38] <hamitron> :(
[17:38] <gord> ... amazon sent me an email saying i get free shipping now - which is all fine and dandy apart from i use amazon prime so that doesn't mean a thing >:(
[17:38] <popey> 47G     /home/minecraft/backups/
[17:38] <popey> there we go
[17:38] <popey> bye bye february
[17:38] <hamitron> half the fun about playing with fire, is knowing it can get out of hand....
[17:38] <popey> yeah, being able to undo is no fun
[17:39] <popey> mind you, your world being destroyed by grey goo doesn't look like fun either :)
[17:39] <hamitron> I can't load that
[17:39] <hamitron> just never loads
[17:39] <hamitron> :/
[17:39] <gord> popey, do you keep images for each map backup?
[17:39] <popey> images?
[17:39] <popey> oh, pictures?
[17:39] <gord> yeah
[17:39] <popey> no
[17:40] <hamitron> :/
[17:40] <popey> but I could generate them :)
[17:40] <gord> oh shame, would of been nice to do a timelapse
[17:40] <hamitron> yeh
[17:40] <popey> loop through backups, unpack, map, delete
[17:40] <popey> 20 goto 10
[17:40] <hamitron> bbl, food is ready :D
[17:41] <Azelphur> gord: my maps get generated live http://game.azelphur.com:8123/ :D
[18:00] <gord> the new natty wallpapers are very pretty
[18:02] <bigcalm> A new defualt wallpaper is all that I look for in an OS update
[18:03] <hamitron> :)
[18:03] <hamitron> all the purple in 10.04 made me sick
[18:04] <bigcalm> *aubergine
[18:04] <hamitron> ubuntu has a kinda sissy image, then i get a wallpaper like that ;)
[18:05] <Myrtti> I never see the defaults
[18:05] <hamitron> never install X?
[18:06] <hamitron> or the full blown thing
[18:06] <Myrtti> Rsync backups in tty1 before first login
[18:07] <hamitron> I dunno why, but I like to lose all settings and start fresh fairly regularly
[18:08] <smittix> easy
[18:08] <hamitron> not sure if it helps uch these days, but it makes me sort my mess out (at least a bit)
[18:08] <Myrtti> I do that on secondary machines
[18:08] <hamitron> much*
[18:08] <Myrtti> Whee blizzard
[18:09] <hamitron> Whee blizzard?
[18:09] <s-fox> I will be back later.
[18:09] <gord> the defaults in the latest versions of ubuntu have been great, especially enjoying that there are a bunch of default wallpapers that you can set to slideshow
[18:10] <hamitron> 13 mins till I have CAE Linux 2010 \o/
[18:10] <hamitron> not gonna use it as a distro, but looks like it has some interesting software to sample
[18:13] <hamitron> I am actually considering a dual boot config again
[18:13] <hamitron> :/
[18:14] <hamitron> linux distro are so good to use, not sure I can not have one on my main rig
[18:14] <hamitron> :)
[18:14] <gord> can't remember a time where i haven't duel booted on my main machine, between ubuntu and windows
[18:14] <gord> if i need to use some other linux, i'll vm
[18:14] <Myrtti> hamitron: hello from Finland
[18:14] <hamitron> well, I got 5 machines on this desk atm
[18:14] <hamitron> 2 windows and 3 unix
[18:15] <hamitron> Myrtti: hi :)
[18:15] <hamitron> unix-like I mean ;/
[18:16] <alexcockell> Hi all - just toask..
[18:16] <alexcockell> Need to ask before I accept updates...
[18:17] <hamitron> alexcockell: ask away
[18:17] <alexcockell> Is there any current issue with the version of Adobe Flash that has just been released and NVidia ION chips?
[18:17] <alexcockell> Just that there's some stuff on the ubuntu forums about Youtube breaking..
[18:18] <alexcockell> Flash 10.2.153.1... just in Update Manager today
[18:18] <alexcockell> Just that I'd rather nto have iPlayer breaking in my netbook..
[18:18] <alexcockell> Am tempted to do what I usually do and wait a week..
[18:19] <Myrtti> hamitron: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5555958083/
[18:20] <hamitron> I love snow :)
[18:21] <gord> alexcockell, do you have any need to update flashplayer?
[18:22] <hamitron> I'd personally just try the new flash player update, as there is a good chance it has security updates
[18:22] <hamitron> can always revert if required
[18:22] <gord> hamitron, eh? not easily
[18:23] <hamitron> gord: why not? :|
[18:23] <gord> hamitron, how would you revert?
[18:23] <hamitron> uninstall
[18:24] <gord> ... thats not a revert
[18:25] <hamitron> it is if you install the older version again
[18:25] <smittix> no ubuntu-restricted packages installed by default then
[18:25] <hamitron> anyways, my point is security is important
[18:26] <gord> hamitron, its installing the older version again thats the trick ;)
[18:26] <hamitron> gord: nit picking? ;/
[18:26] <smittix> Is there a fix to the ugly plymouth screen after installing proprietary drivers (ati) yet?
[18:26] <hamitron> flash is evil anyway
[18:26] <gord> hamitron, no no, its just that i don't want to get someone to the position where they install a new version and can't go back
[18:26] <gord> because that would suck
[18:27] <hamitron> true
[18:27] <directhex> smittix: no, because you can't do plymouth with fglrx
[18:31] <smittix> :/
[18:32] <smittix> Id fall back to the open source driver but my battery drains within 20mins
[18:33] <alexcockell> New flashpllayer is listed as an "important security update" in Update Manager...
[18:34] <alexcockell> I run a Lenovo Thinkpad R61i with Intel graphics, and a  Lenovo Ideapad S12 with NVidia ION GPU..
[18:34] <alexcockell> and am not sure whether it has been tested on those configs..
[18:35] <alexcockell> I bought them preinstalled from linux Emporium..
[18:35] <alexcockell> So - would not know how to fix it if it broke
[18:36] <alexcockell> Both running 10.04 LTS
[18:36] <alexcockell> ... with all updates apart from this Adobe Flash update.
[18:37] <hamitron> the small flash installer update?
[18:37] <alexcockell> Yes.
[18:37] <alexcockell> As that goes off to Adobe's site...
[18:38] <hamitron> have you got a link to the problem that worries you?
[18:38] <hamitron> on the forum
[18:38] <alexcockell> Umm - not really...
[18:38] <alexcockell> Did a browse.. and there are a few listed in Absolute Beginners..
[18:39] <alexcockell> I have the switch to turn on hardware accel applied..
[18:39] <alexcockell> ... but am not sure when Adobe mention on their release notes that they have tested on NVidia 330 - is that an ION chip?
[18:40] <alexcockell> Basically, I don;'t want to lose Youtube and iPlayer..
[18:40] <gord> nvidia 330 is not ion
[18:40] <gord> but ion is basically a 9000 series - it should work fine
[18:41] <alexcockell> Why don't Adobe *say* that on a bugfix release?
[18:41] <alexcockell> I know it works OK with the current version I have...
[18:43] <alexcockell> Currently running 10.2.152.27
[19:01] <KrimZon> what's the command to tell how many times a disk has been switched on and off, and all that stuff?
[19:02] <BigRedS> KrimZon: smartctl -a <device>
[19:02] <BigRedS> I think
[19:02] <BigRedS> that'll give the smart data, which I think includes what you're after
[19:03] <KrimZon> hmm, it doesn't give me the info for that particular disk
[19:03] <HazRPG> gooooooood evening, everyone!
[19:03] <hamitron> hi HazRPG
[19:03] <hamitron> :)
[19:03] <KrimZon> but it does for the main disk, so it'll be the other disk that sucks
[19:03] <HazRPG> hamitron \o/!
[19:03] <BigRedS> KrimZon: ah, if there's no smart on the disk I don't think you can get the info
[19:03] <BigRedS> Gooooooooooood Morning HazRPG!
[19:03] <BigRedS> </robin williams>
[19:04] <hamitron> ffs
[19:04] <hamitron> windows 7 machine now can't be seen on the network from the xp machine
[19:04] <hamitron> :/
[19:04] <HazRPG> BigRedS: Haha, yeah that's sort of where I was going with that :P
[19:04] <BigRedS> hamitron: You're trying to do networking in Windows? ewww
[19:05] <hamitron> yes :(
[19:05] <hamitron> move data from old gaming machine to new gaming machine
[19:05] <hamitron> :)
[19:05] <BigRedS> hamitron: haha! I'm perpetually in good morning mode..
[19:05]  * hamitron grumbles as usual
[19:05] <KrimZon> BigRedS: I was trying to investigate i/o errors after trying to use it as a second backup drive
[19:06] <BigRedS> hamitron: I get other people to look after my wintendo for me :)
[19:06] <BigRedS> KrimZon: ah. if there's no smart I'd not want it as a backup drive...
[19:07] <KrimZon> yeah
[19:07] <BigRedS> though ISTR smartctl does guess stuff to make smart work, so it's possible that's just a disk that needs manual intervention to have smart working
[19:07] <BigRedS> but I don't know.
[19:07] <HazRPG> BigRedS, hamitron: http://goo.gl/Ugt3A
[19:07] <BigRedS> haha, awesome!
[19:07] <KrimZon> I'd hoped to have two drives so one was always separate from the machine
[19:08] <HazRPG> BigRedS: guessing you haven't seen that before then :P
[19:08] <daubers> Evening
[19:08] <hamitron> KrimZon, what I do :)
[19:08] <BigRedS> nope. I miss most of these things on the net somehow
[19:08]  * hamitron never seen it either
[19:09] <HazRPG> hamitron: :o
[19:09] <HazRPG> ... see I usually find this stuff finds me :S
[19:09] <hamitron> very small hand on my screen :/
[19:09] <HazRPG> don't know how, I must just attract crazy!
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so that's how you ended up here :)
[19:10] <HazRPG> hmm, heh, its no better on mine
[19:10] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ironically... yes! :P
[19:11] <HazRPG> hmm, should I post up my recipe code (calibre news plugin) to the forum? It works great, the only downside is that I can't use it since my kindle doesn't support arabic :(
[19:12] <HazRPG> its about 4 hours of faffing around to get 42 lines of code
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: post it already :)
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> release early, release often
[19:18] <BigRedS> HazRPG: code wants to be free
[19:23] <hamitron> hmmm
[19:24] <hamitron> usb connector just made a crackle
[19:24] <hamitron> :/
[19:24] <hamitron> static kinda sound
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> brb
[19:30] <MartijnVdS> \o
[19:31] <HazRPG> can't seem to find a decent hex<->character<->decimal encode/decoder
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: perl :)
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: What kind of hex? :)
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> (Unicode code points? Latin1 code points?)
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> UTF-8 encoded unicode?
[19:33] <HazRPG> ah, the key thing was  the bit in the middle, I want to change "الأولى" to unicode value so that I can place it in the recipe for uploading
[19:34] <HazRPG> since the recipe doesn't work if the text isn't english
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Like &#12345; ?
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Or UTF-8/16/32-encoded?
[19:35] <HazRPG> yeah, something like that :)
[19:36] <HazRPG> think I've found one, going to see if it compiles right
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> (that's the problem with Unicode.. it only defines "Number X = this-and-that character".. you need an encoding (UTF-8, or HTML-encoding) to "write it down")
[19:36] <nperry> Unity is useable....
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> nperry: "Classic Gnome" is usable again
[19:37] <nperry> I'm just waiting for gnome-shell to work out of box...
[19:37] <nperry> Getting rid of using jhbuild...
[19:39] <HazRPG> actually, seems it needs to be in \u0627 format
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Are you sure?
[19:40] <HazRPG> &#1575; apparently just shows up as plain text of the same
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: What kind of file?
[19:40] <HazRPG> python
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> ah yes :)
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> In that case, either:
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> hm
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> hmmmm
[19:42] <HazRPG> ikr!
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: So you're writing python, and you want to put Arabic in your python script? Is that it?
[19:43] <HazRPG> I did find an awesome conversion site at one point, but never bookmarked it :(
[19:44] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: well yeah, let me put it this way... when I have 'الأولى' as the feed title (which btw, translates to "first" or "main news") the code fails to run
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: see pm, this is going to be messy :)
[19:44] <HazRPG> when it grabs the news feeds, it seems to use \u<numbers>
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no that's python's way of saying "Unicode character <numbers>"
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try printing somestring.encode('utf-8')
[19:45] <HazRPG> I wish I was coding in a python editor lol
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> Unicode is nothing without a way to represent it. Python's way (if nothing else is specified) is \unumber
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> but if you explicitly encode your string to UTF-8 (bytes), it should work
[19:46] <HazRPG> I'm using gedit to write the code and "ebook-convert arabic.recipe output_dir --test -vv" to test it
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> Python 3 makes this easier, by using "bytes" for the raw bytes and "characters" (strings) for the in-memory "character" sets
[19:47] <HazRPG> right...
[19:50] <hamitron> 4.6gb ram used! gotta get to 8.....
[19:51] <hamitron> at this rate will need tutoring from Azelphu_r on how to abuse hardware
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> open firefox
[19:52] <hamitron> haha
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> *poof* RAM used
[19:52] <hamitron> 5.32 used...
[20:00] <HazRPG> hamitron: what ya doing to fill it?
[20:00] <HazRPG> just opening as many tabs as possible?
[20:00] <hamitron> installing 5 different distro at once in vmware
[20:00] <HazRPG> or are you running a pi calculator and storing into RAM :P?
[20:00] <hamitron> oh no
[20:01] <hamitron> I am actually doing something useful
[20:01] <hamitron> ;)
[20:01] <HazRPG> :P
[20:01] <hamitron> I am sure I could fill the ram
[20:01] <hamitron> but I want to USE the ram I suppose
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> _why_?
[20:01] <hamitron> because I paid money for it
[20:01] <dwatkins> as a test?
[20:02] <hamitron> ;)
[20:02] <dwatkins> run memtest...
[20:02] <hamitron> I could of got 4gb cheaper than 8gb
[20:02] <dwatkins> NOTE: do not do that on a virtual server unless you are prepared for it to totally stop responding
[20:02] <hamitron> if I never use over 4gb, it would feel a waste buying 8gb
[20:03] <hamitron> now I can say hand on heart, I sometimes use it
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> are you running the 64-bit version?
[20:04] <hamitron> only 32 bit guests
[20:04] <hamitron> 64 bit host OS
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> there's the problem
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> 32-bit processes can't get >4G
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> get some 64-bit processes running :)
[20:05] <dwatkins> is the virtual host software 32-bit?
[20:05]  * hamitron shrugs
[20:05] <hamitron> it is vmware
[20:07] <dwatkins> I installed vmware but couldn't get it to run 64-bit OSs on CentOS.
[20:07] <hamitron> my host OS is windows 7
[20:07] <HazRPG> VirtualBox \o/
[20:07] <HazRPG> hamitron: :(
[20:07] <HazRPG> hamitron: letting the side down, you should be having ubuntu on with windows VM's :P
[20:08] <hamitron> F1 2010 and Test Drive Unlimited 2 are the only reason I got a new comp
[20:08] <hamitron> ;)
[20:08] <hamitron> oh, and minecraft
[20:09] <shauno> morning
[20:09] <hamitron> evening
[20:09] <hamitron> :)
[20:14] <dog69-ipad> Hi all... Great news, I broke my Pc :(
[20:14] <directhex> f1 2010 is half off this weekend
[20:15] <hamitron> directhex: I got it on dvd
[20:15] <hamitron> :)
[20:15] <hamitron> no thanks to amazon messing me around with my pre-order
[20:15]  * hamitron curses
[20:16] <directhex> hamitron: well, woo. just sayin', it's £15 on steam this weekend
[20:17] <hamitron> worth a buy imo
[20:17] <hamitron> even if loads moan about it
[20:17] <dog69-ipad> Can anyone tell me where to start with a box that is only giving terminal on boot (ubuntu 10.10 desktop)
[20:18] <shauno> nvidia drivers?
[20:18] <dog69-ipad> Yes
[20:18]  * dog69-ipad was looking at the settings last night
[20:18] <dog69-ipad> Don't remember changing anything though
[20:18] <hamitron> this is booting off the livecd?
[20:18] <dog69-ipad> Not tried, but it will do that
[20:19] <dog69-ipad> This is a running Pc since 10.10 came out
[20:19] <hamitron> oh, ok
[20:20] <dog69-ipad> Looked as syslog and it's complaining about missing configuration files
[20:21] <dog69-ipad> Tried to do sudo gde or something but that complains too
[20:22] <hamitron> startx?
[20:23] <dog69-ipad> Fatal error, no screen found....
[20:23] <dog69-ipad> Don't know how I'm seeing that :D
[20:23] <hamitron> haha
[20:24] <dog69-ipad> Also error parsing configuration
[20:39] <jacobw> `sudo gdm`?
[20:43] <dog69-ipad> That gives warning failed to acquire org.gnome.displaymanager
[20:43] <dog69-ipad> Could not acquire name; bailing ouot
[20:43] <dog69-ipad> Out
[20:44] <dog69-ipad> The startx one also said unable to connect to x server
[20:45] <dog69-ipad> No such file in dir
[20:45] <dog69-ipad> No such process, server error
[20:49] <dog69-ipad> Http://pastebin.com/Pk7TTTp2 is my configuration
[20:49] <screen-x> 20:21 < dog69-ipad> Fatal error, no screen found....
[20:50] <screen-x> its ok I'm here now :)
[20:50] <dog69-ipad> Ah, there it is
[20:50] <dog69-ipad> :/
[20:50] <directhex> you don't run gdm manually, that's always wrong
[20:50] <dog69-ipad> Ye
[20:50] <directhex> you run "start gdm", iirc
[20:50] <directhex> start spawns upstart scripts, like invoke-rc.d
[20:50] <dog69-ipad> That spits a big error
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> directhex: "service gdm start" afaik
[20:51] <dog69-ipad> Start: rejected send message, 1 matched rules; .....
[20:51] <popey> evening all
[20:52] <dog69-ipad> MartijnVdS: Same thing
[20:52] <screen-x> evening popey
[20:52] <dog69-ipad> o/ popey
[20:52] <HazRPG> hmm, I've really spent a lot of time on something I won't be able to use xD
[20:53] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: thanks for the encoding help dude :)
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: np.. does it work now?
[20:53] <dog69-ipad> MartijnVdS: Sudo star gdm = job already running
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> dog69-ipad: I have no idea
[20:53] <dog69-ipad> K, thanks
[20:53] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah :D, also managed to get it to grab all 15 or so RSS feeds they have too and strip out the necessaries :)
[20:55] <screen-x> dog69-ipad: have you tried moving xorg.conf out the way (eg xorg.conf.bk) then restarting gdm? (service gdm restart)
[20:56] <HazRPG> although seems Al-Ahram (ahram.org.eg) site apparently ships pdf versions of their newspaper - I almost got overexcited when I read that, but it's a pdf inside of a flash file...
[20:56] <screen-x> dog69-ipad: won't get twinview, but then you can run the nvidia settings thing to configure that.
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: install dsniff, it contains urlsnarf
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: run urlsnarf, open flash file
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it should show you the "hidden" URL of the pdf file
[20:56] <screen-x> haz!info dsniff
[20:56] <screen-x> fail
[20:56] <screen-x> !info dsniff
[20:57] <screen-x> haven't seen that before... some new man pages to read.
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> unless it's really a pdf _inside_ the swf, then you have to download the swf and extract it somehow (there are tools)
[20:57]  * dog69-ipad <3 screen-x
[20:58] <nperry> Hmmmm £117mill rollover tomorrow on euro millions
[20:58] <dog69-ipad> I have icons..  Badly streched and only half the screen... But it's icons none the less
[20:58]  * nperry crosses fingers
[20:58]  * hamitron hits something
[20:58] <nperry> I might be able to run my car with that ammount of money way petrol is going
[20:58] <dog69-ipad> screen-x: Tx
[20:59] <hamitron> everything has just gone wonky here
[20:59] <hamitron> :/
[20:59] <slackthumbz> screen -UDx
[20:59] <screen-x> slackthumbz: s/UD//
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: does that work? urlsnarf? :)
[21:01] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah took a moment to realise I needed -i eth0
[21:01] <screen-x> "I wrote dsniff with honest intentions - to audit my own network, and to demonstrate the insecurity of cleartext network protocols. Please do not abuse this software." <-- good luck with that
[21:01] <HazRPG> man pages helped :)
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you have that many interfaces? :)
[21:01] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I have 2
[21:01] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: erm... this is... interesting
[21:02] <slackthumbz> with -UD you detach anyone else attached to your screen session and get UTF-8 support
[21:02] <HazRPG> its not a pdf at all
[21:02] <HazRPG> its an image file!
[21:02] <slackthumbz> I find it rather handy
[21:02] <HazRPG> and the images aren't embedded at all!
[21:02] <HazRPG> http://www.ahram.org.eg/pdf/Zoom_1500/45398/images/page6.jpg <==
[21:02] <screen-x> slackthumbz: yeah, but without UD, you get my name :D
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you can concatenate images into PDFs :)
[21:02] <slackthumbz> lol
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: but it might be easier to make the RSS feeds into PDFs (with the right fonts embedded)
[21:03] <HazRPG> if I can work out their number scheme, I could probably write a little script out to grab these and... lol yeah make a pdf of it :P
[21:04] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah, but if I make a script to grab the actual newspaper... I could impress my family next time I'm over there :P
[21:05] <dogmatic69_> \o/ icons and stuff
[21:05] <HazRPG> they're offering it as a free service... so why not give that free service to my mum in a more manageable form for her to use :P
[21:06] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: teach her Python :P
[21:06] <HazRPG> I mean Al-Ahram (translation: "The Pyramids") is her favourite newspaper
[21:07] <Myrtti> lolwhat? http://www.flickr.com/photos/suviko/5556049477/
[21:07] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Al-Haram 8-)
[21:07] <HazRPG> Haram = Pyramid
[21:08] <HazRPG> Ahram = More than one pyramid ;)
[21:08] <screen-x> Myrtti: odd
[21:08] <HazRPG> Myrtti: random...
[21:09]  * HazRPG wants
[21:09] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ah.. not the opposite of halal then?
[21:10] <HazRPG> Harram is why your thinking of then ;)
[21:10] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Dutch muslims write it "Haram"
[21:10] <MartijnVdS> Wikipedia says Haraam
[21:10] <MartijnVdS> \o/ transliteration
[21:10] <HazRPG> Harram = Forbidden
[21:10] <HazRPG> actually yeah Haraam would be more correct
[21:11] <HazRPG> but that's a character-to-character translation, its pronounced more like it has 2 r's in it
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> Which is why it's spelled "haram" in Dutch :)
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> that would make the pronunciation more like taht
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> that*
[21:12] <HazRPG> really?
[21:12] <HazRPG> Haram (HarAM) would be pyramid :)
[21:12] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Written Dutch is strange (sometimes vowels get strechted at the end of syllables, etc.)
[21:13] <HazRPG> ah
[21:13] <HazRPG> then how would you write pyramid (haram)
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> Pyramide :)
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> Or haraam
[21:14] <HazRPG> cos that's not confusing :P
[21:14] <HazRPG> I wonder if I release a way to grab this newspaper's images... would they find another way to *hide* it?
[21:17] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I'd just generate PDF myself using the RSS feeds
[21:17] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: embed the fonts, and try on kindle
[21:17] <HazRPG> holy cow, they must have a decent webhost... seems they've got the older news papers in here too
[21:18] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hah, I knew I was right! (I use to tell my mum that the reason the images were sometimes blurred on the newspaper, because they've exported it out wrong... and seems I'm right): http://www.ahram.org.eg/pdf/Zoom_1500/45397/images/page1_zoom.jpg
[21:19] <HazRPG> she always thought it was bad printing from time-to-time, seems they just don't know how to export properly
[21:20] <MartijnVdS> fial :)
[21:20] <HazRPG> I always told her its not possible that 5 family members (bought at different times and different places) would all come out the same if it was just due to bad printing
[21:20] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that page looks like I need 3d glasses :)
[21:21] <HazRPG> it does, doesn't it... but I highly doubt it'd produce the right effect with 3d glasses :P
[21:21] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yeah it's in Arabic, so I'd need to wear the glasses in reverse :)
[21:21] <HazRPG> xD
[21:22] <HazRPG> hmm, it must make sense from a printing aspect to do it that way
[21:22] <ali1234> that's a scan of a bad print
[21:22] <MartijnVdS> Sleep time. I'll leave you all with this: http://3voor12.vpro.nl/speler/luisterpaal/44540023#luisterpaal.44540023
[21:23]  * screen-x moves to a box with audio
[21:23] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: your hooked on the Fitz and the Tantrums aren't ya :P
[21:23] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: night dude :)
[21:23] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: a little :)
[21:23] <screen-x> sleep well MartijnVdS :)
[21:23] <HazRPG> ali1234: that is possible...
[21:23] <ali1234> or maybe not
[21:24] <ali1234> looks like it's not a scan just heavily compressed
[21:24] <ali1234> i can't really think of a way you could mess up the channels like that though
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: oh you could. If you had to. on purpose
[21:24] <HazRPG> ali1234: they're still pretty new to the concepts of printing in colour
[21:25] <ali1234> exactly, you'd have to do it on purpose
[21:26] <HazRPG> hmm, food for thought ... can't be entirely on perpose: http://www.ahram.org.eg/pdf/Zoom_1500/45398/images/page1_zoom.jpg
[21:26] <HazRPG> that's the front cover of today's paper
[21:26] <ali1234> looks fine
[21:26] <HazRPG> exactly
[21:26] <ali1234> ah
[21:27] <screen-x> MartijnVdS: tune
[21:27] <ali1234> i bet they generate those jpegs from 4 separate tiffs or something
[21:27] <HazRPG> if you change  "Zoom_1500/<this number>/" and roll back a few articles... they're fine
[21:28] <HazRPG> ali1234: bingo ;)
[21:28] <HazRPG> which is what I always told my mum
[21:28] <HazRPG> but she thought I was talking out of my ...
[21:28] <ali1234> still, dunno how they could accidentally export one of the tifs with a different size than the others
[21:29] <HazRPG> if they do it in photoshop and basically just hide a channel and then re-export, they might accidently slip the image a notch by mistake and didn't realise
[21:30] <HazRPG> gotta remember they're mouse cursor is the wrong way round, and their scrolls on the other side too
[21:30] <ali1234> could be
[21:31] <ali1234> if you compare the front page on different days the top logo moves around all over
[21:31] <ali1234> so that's probably it
[21:31] <HazRPG> which makes sense from an arabic point of view... however no two systems in egypt seem to ever be configured the same (esp. in windows)
[21:32] <HazRPG> I wouldn't be surprised if each page is done by separate people either
[21:32] <ali1234> what's this picture all about? http://www.ahram.org.eg/pdf/Zoom_1500/45396/images/page1_zoom.jpg
[21:32] <screen-x> ali1234: the bunny or the dudes?
[21:32] <ali1234> the dudes
[21:33] <ali1234> looks lke they're going to fight?
[21:34] <HazRPG> ali1234: trying to read it... news papers are hard for me to read due to lack of reading skills and vocab.
[21:34] <HazRPG> but I'll try...
[21:35] <ali1234> if you can just tell me who it's a picture of i can probably find the rest on google :)
[21:35] <HazRPG> first word is ansar ("look")
[21:35] <screen-x> google docs OCR doesn't do arabic..
[21:37] <HazRPG> screen-x: not surprising, its not really easy to read font
[21:37] <HazRPG> some characters I can't make out
[21:37] <HazRPG> because it could be a few things
[21:37] <screen-x> HazRPG: it doesn't support arabic at all
[21:37] <HazRPG> oh
[21:37] <screen-x> otherwise, could have OCRd it then attempted a text translation.
[21:37] <HazRPG> heh, android still doesn't support arabic yet either - yet their phones are selling like hot-cakes over there
[21:38] <HazRPG> and all asking for arabic support ootb
[21:38] <HazRPG> I can try and type out the characters into google translate...
[21:38] <screen-x> HazRPG: do they have a version with real text?
[21:40] <dogmatic69_> say i have a file like the following, how could i get the password out? https://github.com/infinitas/infinitas/raw/beta/config/database.php.default
[21:41] <dogmatic69_> im using while read LINE do for WORD in $LINE do ....
[21:41] <dogmatic69_> must be a better way than that
[21:41] <ali1234> dogmatic69 write a bit of php that instantiates the class and prints the password
[21:42] <ball> Ubuntu's disk utility is a bit strange
[21:42] <dogmatic69_> ali1234: i guess... and cat it to the bash script as a param?
[21:42] <dogmatic69_> pipe
[21:42] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: where does bash come into this?
[21:42] <ali1234> i don't know php off by heart but it would be something like require "database.php"; x = new DATABASE_CONFIG; print(x.default['password'];
[21:43] <screen-x> ball: what are you seeing?
[21:43] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: im writing a bash script to do a backup, instead of saving the db password all over, i could just get it from the app
[21:43] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: so its not a php app that needs to read the file?
[21:43] <dogmatic69_> nope
[21:43] <dogmatic69_> bash
[21:43] <ball> screen-x: I tried to use it to reformat my MP3 player
[21:43] <ball> brb
[21:43] <dogmatic69_> sorry, forgot that part out :/
[21:44] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: in that case grep password |cut -d "'" -f 3
[21:44] <screen-x> or something close to that
[21:44] <ali1234> that would work too
[21:45] <dogmatic69_> hmm
[21:45] <ali1234> you can put some php code on the php command line too
[21:45] <dogmatic69_> does it not need to know the file name?
[21:45] <ali1234> so you don't need a separate file
[21:45] <dogmatic69_> ali1234: how do i put php code in the command line?
[21:45] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: grep password filename |cut ...
[21:46] <dogmatic69_> ah
[21:46] <ali1234> go with grep
[21:46] <ali1234> probably faster
[21:46] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: => twice
[21:46] <screen-x> grep password /tmp/test.php |cut -d"'" -f 4
[21:47] <screen-x> off by one..
[21:47] <HazRPG> screen-x: they do on the main site... but two days ago, and I'm not sure how far back the news articles on the site go (considering the news isn't timestamped on the site for some reason)
[21:47] <HazRPG> so far I have: Ban Ki-moon guard trying to protect it fromfriction
[21:48] <ali1234> ah ok
[21:48] <ali1234> http://www.insurancebroadcasting.com/photos/1_20/photo/-2711021-1.html
[21:48] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: awesome, thanks
[21:48] <ali1234> english ^
[21:48] <dogmatic69_> twice in the hour
[21:48] <dogmatic69_> :)
[21:50] <hcfd> Hey guys, I just recently installed an update that Update Manager was 'pushing' on me, for Adobe Flash Player. Now when I run VLC Media Player by opening a media file, X crashes. I get a segfault, something about ld-2.11.1.so -- is this related to the update? What is ld-linux.so.2 for anyway?
[21:50] <hcfd> 10.04LTS btw
[21:51] <hcfd> Also, when I try to run tilda, I get this output from dmesg: [  618.116116] tilda[4255]: segfault at 0 ip 0804ffbb sp bf9a2e10 error 4 in tilda[8048000+13000]
[21:51] <ball> Great, now my Internet connection is bad too.
[21:51]  * ball sighs
[21:51] <ali1234> hcfd: well, your system is pretty messed up...
[21:51] <hcfd> Yes, yes it is.
[21:52] <hcfd> I didn't do anything to it, however, besides accept an update through Update Manager.
[21:52] <hcfd> I'm on a slightly older than current kernel though.
[21:52] <ali1234> none of that should cause segfaults
[21:52] <hcfd> I know.
[21:53] <screen-x> hcfd: have you tried ldconfig?
[21:53] <ali1234> can you pastebin the last few lines of /var/log/apt/history.log?
[21:53] <ali1234> they are time stamped
[21:53] <ball> I'm trying to create a FAT32 partition on an MP3 player that presents itself as a USB flash drive
[21:54] <hcfd> screen-x, I have not. I have no idea what ld-linux is.
[21:54] <hcfd> ali1234, sure
[21:54] <HazRPG> wow, I really don't know the placement of arabic characters (doesn't help that my keyboard doesn't have the letters on it)
[21:54] <HazRPG> anyways so far: Ban Ki-moon guard trying to protect it fromfriction Altzahreinn Alwidin
[21:54] <ali1234> HazRPG: i found the english story linked above ^
[21:54] <screen-x> hcfd: I'm a bit fuzzy, but I think its the dynamically linked library loader
[21:54] <dogmatic69_> i got an exit in a bash script and it just kills the server connection... how can i exit without closing ssh?
[21:54] <HazRPG> ali1234: aww... spoiling my fun keyboard mashing :P
[21:55] <HazRPG> ah ok, that makes so much sense
[21:55] <HazRPG> didn't realise Ban Ki-moon was a name :p
[21:55] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: can you pastebin the script?
[21:55] <ali1234> it;s the asian looking dude :)
[21:55] <hcfd> ali1234, here it is: http://pastebin.com/zuFdt3pk   Please note that the flash uninstall, reinstall and the VLC uninstall, reinstall was just my attempt at a quick fix, a shot in the dark.
[21:56] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: its my first k ;)
[21:56] <HazRPG> ali1234: obviously :P
[21:57]  * HazRPG proceeds to eat the pie my sister brought home
[21:57] <HazRPG> from work*
[21:57] <ball> Aha!
[21:58] <HazRPG> and now my cousin in egypt is trying to write arabic letters to me...
[21:58] <HazRPG> *sigh*
[21:58] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1481764846
[21:58] <HazRPG> I really do need to practice reading arabic
[21:58] <ali1234> hcfd: anything before that?
[21:58] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: first attempt at bash, im sure its all wrong :S
[21:59] <hcfd> ali1234, I can throw the whole thing up.. was just showing you what I've got. Before the upgrade, the machine was stable.. nothing of relevance going further back -- to my eyes anyway.
[22:00] <hcfd> ali1234, http://pastebin.com/mwBm6V43
[22:00] <zatan> Hi does anybody know how its calling that top panel ? http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TWZ34S45D_I/AAAAAAAADIU/_AUZeAEh1yg/awn-notification-daemon-applet.png
[22:00] <ali1234> dogmatic69 you might want to look at using tempfile or similar for temporary files
[22:00] <hcfd> That goes back a couple of weeks. I'm in GMT timezone btw.
[22:00] <dogmatic69_> ali1234: how you mean?
[22:00] <dogmatic69_> in /tmp
[22:01] <ali1234> dogmatic69 see man tempfile
[22:01] <dogmatic69_> oh
[22:01] <ali1234> hcfd: i don't see anything in there that would cause such serious problems
[22:01] <ali1234> hcfd: anything interesting on your dmesg?
[22:01] <ali1234> also have you rebooted since update?
[22:02] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: how are you calling that script with ssh?
[22:02] <HazRPG> python can be compiled to an executable can't it?
[22:02] <ball> Got it.  I had to use dd to write zeroes to the first few sectors and let it decide to reformat itself.
[22:02] <ali1234> HazRPG: yeah
[22:02] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: just gonna be a cron
[22:02] <hcfd> ali1234, I have rebooted, yes. Will throw up dmesg for you. Nothing stands out to me, besides the problem.
[22:02] <HazRPG> ali1234: great, might have to see if I can make a small simple (hopefully gui) app for my mum to grab these papers with :)
[22:03] <ali1234> !py2exe
[22:03] <cbx33> hey guys
[22:03] <HazRPG> apparently not a factoid
[22:03] <HazRPG> cbx33: hey dude :)?
[22:03] <ali1234> ~info py2exe
[22:03] <cbx33> howz it all going peeps
[22:03] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: so where does ssh come in?
[22:03] <ali1234> well, it's called py2exe anyway... makes windows exes
[22:04] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: im ssh'ed into the box where im running it
[22:04] <ali1234> there's not much point on linux
[22:04] <HazRPG> ali1234: how so?
[22:04] <dogmatic69_> if i just run the script with no param, it exits as if i typed exit in the terminal... not just the script
[22:04] <HazRPG> wouldn't you need python installed first for the script to run
[22:04] <ali1234> because they usually have python installed by default
[22:05] <HazRPG> ah
[22:05] <HazRPG> hmm, run from terminal though (that's how I'm doing it at the moment)
[22:05] <ali1234> and if not, that's what package dependencies are for
[22:05] <hcfd> Thanks for your patience ali1234. dmesg at http://pastebin.com/ixiJbRhz
[22:06] <HazRPG> cbx33: not bad, yourself?
[22:06] <HazRPG> cbx33: thought anymore on covers?
[22:06] <cbx33> i do have an idea
[22:06] <HazRPG> winner :)
[22:06] <cbx33> but not sure if I'll use it
[22:06] <cbx33> :)
[22:06] <HazRPG> always here if you ever need to brainstorm :)
[22:07] <cbx33> thanks HazRPG
[22:07] <cbx33> my wife is going to try to do a quirky design
[22:07] <cbx33> if that doesn't work out - I have a reasonable serious one
[22:07] <hcfd> alil234: You can ignore /dev/sdd... it is a failing drive which was removed from an array. I just haven't physically removed it yet, it's being RMA'd.
[22:07] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: I can't reproduce that, If I run that script it just exits the script.
[22:07] <dogmatic69_> :O
[22:07] <cbx33> but I'm having issues with a merge right now
[22:07] <dogmatic69_> one sec
[22:08] <ali1234> hcfd: is it possible some other drives are failing in the array?
[22:08] <HazRPG> cbx33: I can always see if some of my friends will spare some time and make some if you like too?
[22:08] <cbx33> and I can't get anyone to answer my question in #git :)
[22:08] <cbx33> HazRPG, as long as they realise it may not be picked - that would be awesome :)
[22:08] <HazRPG> cbx33: well we're helpful :P ask away
[22:08] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: well it doesnt just exit, it outputs "Please enter the S3 bucket to back up to" first
[22:09] <cbx33> well i just did a merge - and got conflicts . no big deal - so I tried a git merge --abort...and it failed.....but a git reset --merge succeeded
[22:09] <cbx33> the man page seems to suggest they should do a similar, if not identical thing
[22:09] <cbx33> wanted to demonstrate an abort in the book - but it's not happening right now :)
[22:10] <cbx33> problen is - because the test repository is linear - I cant do any more to it, until I sort this out
[22:10] <hcfd> ali1234, it is indeed possible. The array is a RAID1 with one device, atm, as /dev/sdd is definitely fubar'd and was removed. Shouldn't be affecting tilda though.. and even trying to play media from other drives doesn't help the issue. The array in question isn't auto-mounted, so I could reboot and not touch it to see if it helps?
[22:10] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1727955774
[22:10] <ali1234> hcfd: if it's not where your softwar is stored it's probably not the problem
[22:10] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: optimus-prime ;-)
[22:11] <dogmatic69_> :)
[22:11] <dogmatic69_> got the whole crew going
[22:11] <hcfd> ali1234, yeah it's just data. Root partition is another array altogether with 3 very healthy 80GB drives in RAID1
[22:11] <ali1234> hcfd: i suppose it *could* be if something is trying to thumbnail the videos or something like that
[22:12] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: that may be a strange ec2 thing then. Maybe wrap the whole lot in a function and use return rather than exit?
[22:13] <hcfd> ali1234, yeah.. hey I guess so. Unless you have any other leads/ideas, I think I'll reboot and give that array a wide berth, just to see if it has anything to do with it. Before I go, you couldn't do me a favour and paste me your ls -l for /lib/ld* ?
[22:13] <ali1234> hcfd: you could try running vlc or tilda in gdb to see where it crashes, and use strace or ltrace to see what it is doing
[22:13] <brobostigon-g1> evening everyone
[22:13] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: aparentlly im not 'running' it, im 'sourcing' it...?
[22:13] <screen-x> ahhh
[22:13] <screen-x> I didn't even see the . in your paste
[22:13] <dogmatic69_> that means nothing to me...
[22:13] <screen-x> durrrr
[22:13] <ali1234> hcfd: i'm not on 10.04
[22:13] <hcfd> ali1234, good idea. Tbh though, I don't think I could interpret the results very well, but will give it a go.
[22:14] <HazRPG> cbx33: sorry, had to visit the mens room... yeah I'm pretty sure they won't mind that
[22:14] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: ./backup.sh
[22:14] <cbx33> cool
[22:14] <hcfd> ali1234, are you on 10.*? :)
[22:14] <brobostigon-g1> is alanbell around?
[22:14] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: thanks... will do that
[22:14] <ali1234> hcfd: there's really only 3 possible explanations, 1. hardware fault 2. serious software bug 3. you did something weird and didn't tell us :)
[22:14] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: that would explain why its killing your shell, as you are running those commands in the current shell, rather than starting a subshell
[22:14] <dogmatic69_> guys in #bash are moaning about the ext also :(
[22:15] <dogmatic69_> i see
[22:15] <ali1234> where "something weird" = recompiled parts of the base system with weird patches or something
[22:15] <hcfd> ali1234, hardware fault looks more likely really.. 3. is not an option, if the answer were 2. then everyone would be complaining with me.. which leaves hardware. Could be anything, right? RAM, CPU, HDD, mobo..?
[22:16] <HazRPG> hmm
[22:16] <ali1234> could be. cpu is usually the least likely to die like this
[22:16] <HazRPG> cbx33: those do seem like very similar commands
[22:16] <hcfd> ali1234, base is untouched. Customisations here and there but nothing out of the norm.
[22:16] <cbx33> yes
[22:17] <screen-x> hcfd: "normal customisations" is almost a paradox
[22:17] <ali1234> hcfd: http://pastebin.com/6t80v1N3
[22:18] <hcfd> ali1234, I confess, the machine does totally lock up sometimes.. but it is related to overheating when the ambient temp goes up. It's rocking a LOT of hardware in such a small case.. but having said that, temps are perfectly within normal parameters. 45C for the hottest HDD, 49C for CPU at times.. I put it down to bad HDDs.. looks like /dev/sdd isn't the only one.. but I'm fearful that there's something more serious. :/
[22:18] <ali1234> what's GPU temp?
[22:18] <ali1234> overheating GPU can cause all kinds of weird stuff to happen
[22:19] <ali1234> if the machine locks up that could corrupt your filesystem in interesting ways
[22:19] <ali1234> so that could be the cause
[22:19] <hcfd> ali1234, -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 113964 2011-01-21 23:53 ld-2.11.1.so
[22:21] <hcfd> ali1234, it's 46C. Slowdown threshold is 105C... I mean I think it should be stable upto say 55C, 65C.. it should certainly handle 46C. In fact, I have 3 identical GPUs.. this one was put in a month ago as I was troubleshooting the lockups.. this GPU and the one it replaced are fine as far as I can tell.
[22:21] <AlanBell> brobostigon-g1: yup
[22:22] <ali1234> hcfd: it can also be insufficient power supply
[22:22] <hcfd> Alright, I'll only mount the root partition and e2fsck the rest.
[22:22] <HazRPG> cbx33: hmm, can't see to find anything
[22:22] <ali1234> hcfd: or bad capacitors on just about any component that has them
[22:22] <ali1234> usually PSU and motherboard
[22:22] <hcfd> ali1234, that was my very first thought. I put in a bigger one and it made no difference. Hmm.
[22:22] <cbx33> nope me neither
[22:22]  * hcfd nods
[22:22] <cbx33> I'll use the reset for now
[22:22] <cbx33> I'll ask in #git again tomorrow when it hots up
[22:23] <brobostigon-g1> alanbell what is that place you told me about last night,i need to talk about certain things.please,
[22:23] <AlanBell> #wrongplanet
[22:23] <HazRPG> cbx33: I'm currently looking through the git community book: http://book.git-scm.com/index.html
[22:23] <brobostigon-g1> alanbell thank you.
[22:23] <hcfd> ali1234, could be looking for a new system. Ran memtest, and all 8GB is fine. Guess I'll run  off of a liveCD for a few days to eliminate the HDDs and see where to go from there. Thanks for your help, you're being spot on with your analysis.
[22:24] <HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: \o/
[22:24] <HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: how's it going squire?
[22:24] <cbx33> HazRPG, traitor :p
[22:24] <cbx33> hahaha
[22:24] <cbx33> j/k
[22:24] <brobostigon-g1> hazrpg its going crap, in truth.
[22:24] <HazRPG> cbx33: hehe was going to say, can't be a traitor if I'm trying to help shape yours ;)
[22:24] <hcfd> ali1234, just one last thought, do you think that the correlation between heat and lockups (and now segfaults) makes sense if it is a capacitor issue?
[22:24] <cbx33> that is very true
[22:24] <cbx33> :p
[22:25] <cbx33> hehehe
[22:25] <cbx33> Thanks for trying to find out
[22:25] <cbx33> a little googling here didn't show anything either
[22:25] <HazRPG> no problem :)
[22:25] <cbx33> if yo ulook in the man git merge
[22:25] <ali1234> hcfd: sure, bad capacitors are basically ones that aren't as heat resistant as they claim to be
[22:25] <cbx33> there is something about aborting
[22:25] <ali1234> hcfd: they fail because the electrolyte in them dries up
[22:25] <cbx33> oh no - not badcaps :p
[22:25] <cbx33> anyone remember that?
[22:26] <ali1234> remember it? i've got loads of free stuff because of it :)
[22:26] <HazRPG> brobostigon-g1: *hugs*
[22:26] <hcfd> ali1234, ie: failing capacitors work less well under heat/slightly better when cooler? I have an Asus P5Q Pro board which is supposed to have high quality capacitors.. at least the specs/sales tag says so.
[22:26] <ali1234> hcfd: certainly possible, yes
[22:27] <ali1234> even high quality caps wear out eventually
[22:27] <ali1234> and life span depends on the environment they are used in
[22:27]  * brobostigon-g1 hugs hazrpg
[22:27] <ali1234> if you run them at 80 degrees they won't last as long as if you run them at 50 degrees
[22:27] <hcfd> ali1234, so if it is indeed the mobo, are the caps replaceable or should I just scrap the board? I think about £70 for a 2nd hand one, probably aren't any new ones left around.
[22:28] <ali1234> depends on the board
[22:28] <ali1234> i have recapped motherboards before
[22:28] <HazRPG> badcaps?
[22:28] <HazRPG> badcaps on hardware?
[22:28] <ali1234> but don't get too hung up on the capacitors, it's just one posible explanation :)
[22:29] <screen-x> tomorrow I will blame all faults on "bad capacitors"
[22:29] <ali1234> it might not even be hardware issue (that is, the previous GPU issue may have caused FS corruption that is still around now you fixed the GPU)
[22:30] <screen-x> http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ballard/bofh/bofhserver.pl
[22:30] <hcfd> Well put it this way, I've eliminated the following: RAM, PSU, GPU... CPU has always had a good life, well cooled. I unplugged all expansion cards. HDD wise, I indentified a bad one, gave the others a clean bill of health for now. That leaves CPU and/or mobo. How can I t/shoot those without simply replacing them to see what happens? :/
[22:31] <ali1234> you can't
[22:31] <dogmatic69_> i made a dir called ~ in ~/
[22:31] <dogmatic69_> :/
[22:31] <hcfd> ali1234, I figured :)
[22:31] <ali1234> unless the capacitors are visibly leaking brown goo
[22:31] <dogmatic69_> rm ~ ...
[22:31]  * hcfd looks
[22:32] <HazRPG> cbx33: googling inside that book, seems the only place abort is mentioned is here: http://book.git-scm.com/4_rebasing.html
[22:32] <hcfd> I can't see for all the coolers and wiring. hehe
[22:32] <HazRPG> along with a page on git hooks
[22:32] <ali1234> hcfd: google images -> "badcaps"
[22:32] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: rmdir ~/\~
[22:32] <cbx33> ahhh
[22:33] <cbx33> badcaps were prevelant a good few years ago now
[22:33] <cbx33> apparently someone stole the formula for the electrolyte, copied it down wrong and took it to another company
[22:33] <ali1234> hcfd: i notice you have a message about unchecked filesystems... you should run a check :)
[22:33] <dogmatic69_> screen-x: lol, thanks
[22:33] <cbx33> they started making lots of cheaper capacitors....but their electrolyte was bad
[22:34] <dogmatic69_> i almost did sudo rm ~ -r
[22:34] <cbx33> seen a fair few mobos with badcaps
[22:34] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: good job you didn't :)
[22:34] <dogmatic69_> tell me about it
[22:34] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: that would have been a bad plan :P
[22:34] <dogmatic69_> i did rm ~ just to see, and then it said ~/ is a dir...
[22:35] <dogmatic69_> close call
[22:35]  * dogmatic69_ wipes brow and continues
[22:45] <hcfd> ali1234, that's on /dev/sdd (now unplugged).. which is a failing drive. The rest should be upto date and healthy.
[22:45] <HazRPG> hmm, I realised a flaw in my calibre recipe... didn't notice this before... its output the text as left-aligned
[22:46] <screen-x> hcfd: do you get any problems when running from a live cd/usb?
[22:47] <hcfd> ali1234, screen-x, my board has solid state polymer caps.. I don't think the bad-smelling brown-oozing cap failure case applies
[22:48] <ali1234> probably not then
[22:48] <HazRPG> and it doesn't seem to separate the paragraphs with any spacing
[22:49] <hcfd> screen-x, I haven't done so in a long time. I intend to try that shortly however. The only machine I can IRC with at the minute is this one that I'm on.
[22:50] <screen-x> hcfd: rebooting is a pain, when you only have one box available
[22:53] <hcfd> screen-x, definitely. Anyway, I'm going to reboot as usual and leave some HDDs unmounted, run e2fsck, see if things can be improved. Then, I'm going to boot a liveCD and get back to studying for the night.. see if it's more stable.. etc. Probably get back to you guys later on it. Thank you so much for your input.
[23:07] <brobostigon-g1> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:09] <HazRPG> AlanBell: are you just about in every channel on irc :P?
[23:09] <HazRPG> AlanBell: every channel I've ever been on @ freenode, you seen to hang out in :P
[23:12] <dogmatic69_> any recommendations for encrypting a tar.gz file?
[23:13] <jacobw> Depends on your requirements
[23:14] <dogmatic69_> i would like to not use the pw in the command if possible
[23:14] <dogmatic69_> just to encrypt backups
[23:15] <dogmatic69_> work asked, as they said in the contract backups are encrypted
[23:16] <dogmatic69_> its not cc details or anything funny... just std data stuff
[23:21] <jacobw> Public key cryptography
[23:21] <jacobw> This looks useful, http://www.brandedclever.com/how-to-setup-encrypted-offsite-backups/
[23:21] <dogmatic69_> i guess if someone hacks the box they can do what ever they like
[23:21] <Cepheus> dogmatic69_: try `openssl enc -e -aes-128-cbc -k "password" -in file -out file_encrypted` to encrypt and `openssl enc -d -aes-128-cbc -k "password" -in file_encrypted -out file_decrypted`
[23:22] <Cepheus> to decrypt
[23:22] <dogmatic69_> then the pw to decode is in the logs
[23:23] <dogmatic69_> or not?
[23:23] <jacobw> Isn't that the whole point of encryption dogmatic69_, that if the backup system is compromised the backups cannot be decrypted
[23:24] <jacobw> I see what you mean with passwords in the logs, but the answer to that is not to use passwords in commmands
[23:24] <dogmatic69_> im more worried about the box being hacked
[23:24] <Cepheus> it would be unless you clear the bash history.
[23:24] <dogmatic69_> there is s3cmd so they can easily list / download all the files and decode
[23:26] <dogmatic69_> the backup script does s3cmd put something.tar.gz s3://bucket_name
[23:26] <dogmatic69_> so they can just do list s3://bucket_name then download
[23:26] <dogmatic69_> and decode
[23:26] <dogmatic69_> is it possible to make ssh only work from a set ip?
[23:27] <jacobw> I don't know exactly how to do it, but you can use GPG to encypt files using public key encryption without storing the passphrase anywhere
[23:27] <Cepheus> you could replace -k with -pass stdin for the above. problem solved.
[23:27] <dogmatic69_> Cepheus: it has to run in a cron
[23:28] <Cepheus> jacobw: gpg -e file
[23:28] <Cepheus> i think
[23:28] <jacobw> http://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual/x110.html
[23:29]  * hamitron blocks access to sshd using a firewall
[23:31] <shauno> sshd should obey hosts.allow & hosts.deny, but I'd usually consider that a job for a firewall too
[23:32] <dogmatic69_> hamitron: you mean using a pub key with no pw login? or more than that?
[23:33] <hamitron> I was just refering to blocking access to a service, with the exception of some known good addresses
[23:33] <hamitron> I'd also have other stuff in place ofc
[23:34] <dogmatic69_> right, atm all i have is ssh only + fail2ban
[23:34] <shauno> I get paranoid about locking myself out, so I allow sshd from two different isps, rather than locking it down silly-tight
[23:34] <hamitron> I dunno the "right" way to do it in ubuntu
[23:35] <dogmatic69_> i have a bunch of ec2 boxes for clients, and a ec2 'main box' for all sorts of internals (hosting git etc)... i been thinking of only allowing ssh to the client boxes from the 'main box' and then only allowing ssh to the main box from the static office ip
[23:36] <dogmatic69_> so it would be ssh office -> main box -> client box {n}... is that just mad, or a good idea?
[23:36] <hamitron> I'd go office to each server directly
[23:37] <hamitron> but mainly because I get cheap hosts with huge lag
[23:37] <hamitron> ;)
[23:37] <hamitron> the main worry with what you say, is the first box has to be secure
[23:38] <hamitron> main box sorry
[23:38] <shauno> there's nothing nuts about using a bastion.  you just have to be careful that you're reducing access to every client machine, to a single point of failure
[23:38] <hamitron> that also
[23:39] <dogmatic69_> also i dont want ssh from client box {n} -> main box (even though its only office people that have access)
[23:39] <dogmatic69_> shauno: what you mean about single point of failure? like limit the places they can be hacked?
[23:40] <shauno> well, if you do anything to take the main box down, you can't get to anything else
[23:40] <shauno> (you or anyone else)
[23:40] <dogmatic69_> ye
[23:40] <dogmatic69_> i see
[23:40] <dogmatic69_> if that box is screwed, so is everything
[23:41] <shauno> I think the biggest single step you can take with sshd is to disallow password logins, keys only
[23:41] <dogmatic69_> its for hosting a hosted solution... something like lighthouse ish... but for the current ugly version of the app there is one install per client... we are busy rewriting it to be one install with replication and failover something like the fb platform etc
[23:41] <hamitron> more secure and saves typing when logging in \o/
[23:42] <dogmatic69_> shauno: that is done
[23:42] <dogmatic69_> saas or what ever its called
[23:43] <dogmatic69_> SaaS
[23:43] <screen-x> snakes and awesome stuff
[23:43] <dogmatic69_> exactly :D
[23:44] <dogmatic69_> software as a service :P
[23:44] <hamitron> s/awesome/awful
[23:44] <hamitron> ;/
[23:45] <dogmatic69_> ok, this basestation thing is seeming the right way for now... should only be about 5 or 10 client boxes on this old version
[23:45] <shauno> key-only and a bastion host gets a bit awkward tho, because you need your private key on the bastion to be able to get to any other node from there
[23:46] <shauno> so if that one box is compromised, they literally get the keys to the castle
[23:46] <dogmatic69_> also makes the admin part easier for me, .ssh/config on one box
[23:47] <dogmatic69_> shauno: well that box will only be accesible from the ip of the office, so they would need to be a unix wizz as its a mac mini :D
[23:47] <dogmatic69_> plus, they would have to do it during office hours as the pc's with pub keys to the basestation are laptops and get taken home
[23:48] <dogmatic69_> how does spoofing ip addresses work with ssh? is that even possible
[23:49] <shauno> it's just something to keep in mind :)  if you're going to put all your faith in one place, be paranoid about that one place
[23:49] <dogmatic69_> god... this will be the end of me
[23:49] <dogmatic69_> mac address from that ip...
[23:49] <dogmatic69_> :D
[23:49] <shauno> eg, if the keys are going home on laptops, what's the plan if laptops are lost/stolen
[23:50] <dogmatic69_> well then its even easier as you can just drop that key off the base station, instead of every client box
[23:50] <dogmatic69_> and remove the mac address from the 'safe' list
[23:51] <screen-x> dogmatic69_: as long as you get there first
[23:51] <dogmatic69_> ye
[23:51] <dogmatic69_> and the laptops have pw's on (all macs)... damn fanboys
[23:51] <hamitron> give them keys to login to a static box at the office ;)
[23:52]  * dogmatic69_ is the only one not running mac in the office :D
[23:52] <dogmatic69_> so personal pc -> mac mini server -> base station -> client box?
[23:52] <hamitron> yeh, hehe
[23:53] <dogmatic69_> will need to not use the mac mini though, 80 / 22 is forwarded to that
[23:53] <hamitron> oh, for remote admin? :/
[23:54] <dogmatic69_> ye
[23:54] <dogmatic69_> checking hudson etc
[23:54]  * dogmatic69_ has the android hudson app :)
[23:56] <dogmatic69_> i wonder how fb keeps 500mil people out
[23:56] <dogmatic69_> there must be so much people just trying random shit all day