[11:31] <linuxboy> fp!
[11:36] <superfly> sp
[12:03] <queery> maaz, coffee on
[12:03]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[12:03] <queery> any one else want some?
[12:06] <Tonberry> nah
[12:07] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for queery!
[12:07] <queery> maaz, thank you
[12:07] <Maaz> queery: Okay :-)
[17:27] <plustwo> hey guys...
[17:28] <nlsthzn> plustwo: hey :) (and hi all )
[17:28] <plustwo> superfly, what does it take to become a MOTU?
[17:29] <superfly> plustwo: that's a good question, which I do not know the answer to
[17:29]  * plustwo decided to help in bugs ...
[17:29] <superfly> however, I'm sure Google knows
[17:29] <plustwo> fixing bugs truely!
[17:29] <superfly> Maaz: google for how to become an ubuntu motu
[17:29] <Maaz> superfly: "MOTU/FAQ - Ubuntu Wiki" https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ :: "MOTU/Mentoring - Ubuntu Wiki" https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring :: "Proposal for the enhancement of the Mentoring Program" https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu-mentors/2007-October/000153.html :: "MOTU - Ubuntu Wiki" https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU :: "YouTube - Learning MOTU - Getting Started" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyEl3w7SFK4 :: "Steve Kowalik « 
[17:29] <superfly> plustwo: there we go, looks like a few good links ^^
[17:31] <plustwo> superfly, thank you kindly.
[17:31] <superfly> plustwo: thank the Google, not me
[17:31] <plustwo> i still want the basic layman's terms HOWTO
[17:32] <superfly> plustwo: read read read read
[17:32] <superfly> that's what you need to do
[17:32]  * plustwo thinks should have gone the goolge way. what's the point if one has advise locally?
[17:33] <plustwo> superfly, sometimes it's not that easy to understand what is described on the HOWTO's...
[17:33] <plustwo> obscure information leads to assumptions.
[17:34] <superfly> plustwo: sometimes you just need to read it twice
[17:34] <plustwo> lol
[17:34] <plustwo> that was something i didn't realize...
[17:34] <plustwo> inetpro, u here?
[17:35]  * plustwo checks out the links
[17:35] <plustwo> i was very exhausted by the day's thinkings @ work
[17:36]  * plustwo hates Mac a bit
[17:38] <superfly> plustwo: if you're tired from the day's thinkings, then you don't want to become an MOTU, because it involves even more thinking
[17:38] <plustwo> Maaz, tell inetpro i desperatly needed his inputs.
[17:38] <Maaz> plustwo: Okay, I'll tell inetpro on freenode
[17:39] <plustwo> superfly, i worked on a difficult issue on a Mac srv today. not the whole day tho
[17:39] <plustwo> just impatience of the users
[17:40] <nlsthzn> cheers all
[17:40] <plustwo> nlsthzn, bye
[17:40] <superfly> plustwo: I worked on lots of difficult things, I came home to a sick wife and a sick toddler, and now I'm working on an open source project while fielding your questions and support and development questions in the project's IRC channel
[17:40] <plustwo> ooops!
[17:40] <superfly> plustwo: it's called life
[17:40] <plustwo> lol
[17:41] <plustwo> superfly, i envy you a lot
[17:41] <superfly> why?
[17:42] <plustwo> superfly, i like people  like you mostly as they encourage loosers like us to keep the courage in life
[17:42] <plustwo> i hate to be amongst loosers
[17:42] <superfly> there are no losers, only those who lack self-motivation
[17:43] <plustwo> there you go, right on the spot met eis. :-)
[17:43] <plustwo> superfly, i knew i could count on you.
[17:44] <plustwo> superfly, you know a lot about packaging? ubuntu i mean?
[17:45] <superfly> plustwo: a little
[17:47]  * Symmetria finished his development work for a little bit :)
[17:47] <plustwo> superfly, that's no kwl! :-( really, but i shouldn't under estimate your "little" as you've putted it...
[17:47] <Symmetria> heh, wrote the system I needed, took me 2 days, and now Im on a break :P
[17:48] <Symmetria> http://iris.tenet.ac.za/router.php
[17:48] <plustwo> gud work Symmetria ...
[17:48] <Symmetria> ^^^ <3
[17:48] <Symmetria> heh the code behind producing that page is... insane :)
[17:49] <superfly> Symmetria: it's PHP. Enough Said.
[17:50] <plustwo> superfly, i'm currently learning python and wxpython. any good towards fixing bug or participating on ubuntu projects?
[17:51] <superfly> python yes, dunno about wxpython
[17:51]  * plustwo is learning on his own at his own pace...
[17:51]  * superfly stays away from wxStuff
[17:51] <plustwo> superfly, ok. tkinter?
[17:51] <superfly> nope, PyQt4
[17:53] <plustwo> superfly, oh, thanks for the info! what benefits will PyQt4 bring in my development? if i may ask?
[17:53]  * plustwo should google PyQt
[17:53] <superfly> looks and works natively on Windows, Linux, Mac, is a commercial toolkit used in things like Google Earth
[17:54] <superfly> one of the best libraries out there
[17:55] <Symmetria> http://iris.tenet.ac.za/router.php <[17:55] <Symmetria> oooops
[17:55] <Symmetria> mis-channel
[17:55] <plustwo> superfly, thanks a mil
[17:55] <plustwo> :-)
[17:55] <plustwo> superfly, is PyQt KDE related?
[17:56] <superfly> KDE is written on the Qt4 framework
[17:56] <superfly> PyQt4 is the Python bindings for Qt4
[17:57] <superfly> plustwo: only really related in that KDE uses Qt, but not much more than that
[17:57] <superfly> Qt applications look just like other Gnome apps when you're using Gnome
[17:58]  * plustwo uses gnome, but not scared to get into Qt...
[17:58] <plustwo> superfly, thanks again.
[17:59]  * plustwo will brb, googling
[18:17] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:17] <Maaz> inetpro: By the way, plustwo on freenode told me "tell inetpro i desperatly needed his inputs." 39 minutes ago
[18:18]  * inetpro just turned his back and suddenly have others looking for him?
[18:19] <inetpro> btw, good evening everyone
[18:20] <superfly> yo inetpro
[18:21] <inetpro> superfly: I see you suffering again?
[18:21] <superfly> inetpro: no more than usual, just using it to make a point
[18:24] <inetpro> superfly: ah, ok
[18:26] <superfly> some people seem to think being tired is an excuse to not google
[18:31] <inetpro> superfly: true
[18:35] <inetpro> superfly: I've done it more than once
[18:35] <Symmetria> *HRM* wtf
[18:35] <Symmetria> I have a cron entry that looks like this:
[18:36] <Symmetria> */5 * * * * /usr/bgp-poller/bgptable.php &>/var/log/bgp-poller.log 
[18:36] <Symmetria> except, the log file is always 0 bytes big
[18:36] <Symmetria> but the script is *definately* running as expected
[18:36] <Symmetria> because I can see the database changes happening
[18:36] <Symmetria> wtf aint it outputting the log 
[18:36] <linuxboy> what does the script output if you run it on the command line?
[18:36] <inetpro> Symmetria: what user is it running as?
[18:36] <Symmetria> an absolute crapload of stuff that its using print to write out
[18:36] <Symmetria> root 
[18:37] <linuxboy> I've never seen &>
[18:37] <linuxboy> why not use > ?
[18:37] <Symmetria> & says output everything on multi-level output basically
[18:37] <Symmetria> its a wider catchall
[18:37] <linuxboy> ah
[18:37] <linuxboy> stdout and stderr
[18:37] <linuxboy> k
[18:38] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:38] <linuxboy> if you remove the redirect, and set a MAILTO do you get a mail with the contents of the output?
[18:38] <inetpro> Symmetria: is there always supposed to be output?
[18:39] <Symmetria> yes, there is always output
[18:39] <Symmetria> lots of it :)
[18:39] <Symmetria> */5 * * * * /usr/bgp-poller/bgptable.php |/usr/bin/mail -s Test aa@tenet.ac.za 
[18:39] <Symmetria> ^^^ lets see what that does
[18:39] <inetpro> Symmetria: why just a single >
[18:39] <inetpro> it's not appending
[18:39] <Symmetria> inetpro, doesnt matter if it overrides
[18:39] <Symmetria> yeah I know 
[18:39] <inetpro> ok
[18:39] <Symmetria> I only ever need the last runs logs :)
[18:39] <linuxboy> next test: change it to >> to see what it does
[18:40] <Symmetria> tried that
[18:40] <Symmetria> same thing
[18:40] <Symmetria> lets see what the email does :)
[18:40] <Symmetria> heh, gonna need to make the script email me at some point anyway but that wont be the logs, will be only on status changes
[18:41] <Symmetria> http://iris.tenet.ac.za/router.php <[18:41] <inetpro> Symmetria: I bet there will be no difference in the message
[18:42] <Symmetria> will know for sure in 1 minute and 20 seconds
[18:42] <Symmetria> :)
[18:42] <linuxboy> Symmetria: change the script to echo a "hello world" too
[18:43] <Symmetria> heh I just manually executed the script, it shoves out about 70 lines of logs so thats definately working
[18:43] <linuxboy> Symmetria: you do have php-cli installed?
[18:43] <linuxboy> Symmetria: what about php <scriptname> ?
[18:43] <Symmetria> linuxboy yes, and like I say, the script is running, Im seeing the changes in the database 
[18:43] <Symmetria> that script modifies a backend database, heavily modifies it
[18:44] <inetpro> what's the path like on your shell vs the cron shell?
[18:44] <Symmetria> identical 
[18:44] <Symmetria> heh the |mail statement mailed me a full log
[18:44] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:44] <inetpro> &>
[18:45] <linuxboy> tee?
[18:45]  * Symmetria tries a >> without the &
[18:45] <Symmetria> just to see
[18:46] <inetpro> btw s/cron shell/cron environment/
[18:46] <Symmetria> all the paths are hard coded :)
[18:46] <Symmetria> with full path
[18:46] <Symmetria> to get around that
[18:46] <Symmetria> so #!/usr/bin/php for example
[18:46] <inetpro> cool, always important!
[18:47] <inetpro> damn
[18:47]  * inetpro has minutes to write
[18:57] <inetpro> Symmetria: is it working yet?
[18:58] <Symmetria> will check in a second
[18:58] <Symmetria> just fixing something else
[18:59] <Symmetria> heh
[18:59] <Symmetria> there, added some color to my table page :P
[19:00] <Symmetria> yeah, now its working without the &
[19:00] <Symmetria> interesting
[19:00] <Symmetria> never seen that before
[19:19] <froztbyte> > redirects a stream, and will overwrite the destination
[19:19] <froztbyte> >> redirects a stream, and will append to the destination
[19:20] <froztbyte> >& (commonly seen as "2>&1") takes input from one fd and merges it with another
[19:21] <froztbyte> 2>&1 means "take the output from fd2 (stderr) and combine it with fd1 (stdout)"
[19:21] <froztbyte> so what you normally actually want in a cron line is 2>&1 >> /path/to/logfile
[19:22] <froztbyte> Symmetria: ^
[19:23] <froztbyte> the reason your log was 0 bytes after running is because your command actually ran as "task &" and then "> /logfile"
[19:23] <froztbyte> so anything up the & got backgrounded, and then blank data was redirected into the logfile
[19:24] <froztbyte> up to* the
[19:31] <linuxboy> froztbyte: http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html
[19:31] <linuxboy> froztbyte: 3.6.4
[19:32] <froztbyte> linuxboy: why do you paste this to me?
[19:32] <linuxboy> 21:23 < froztbyte> the reason your log was 0 bytes after running is because your command actually ran as "task &" and then "> /logfile"
[19:32] <linuxboy> ^^^
[19:32] <froztbyte> linuxboy: yes, read again
[19:32] <froztbyte> &>, not >&
[19:32] <linuxboy> did you read that link?
[19:33] <linuxboy> froztbyte: yes, read again
[19:33] <froztbyte> linuxboy: okay, tell me, what shell does cron run?
[19:45] <inetpro> froztbyte: good points
[22:15] <nuvolari> fp
[22:59] <Owkkuri> sp