| jxself | poolie: Will do, thanks. There's more than a decade of history in CVS and I don't want to lose that. | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| jelmer | wgrant: Is it no longer possible for me to change Fix Released Ubuntu bugs back to any other status? | 00:06 |
| jelmer | I accidentally changed a bug to Fix Released, now I can't change it back. | 00:06 |
| wgrant | jelmer: You can't reopen a bug unless you are a bug supervisor or the reporter. | 00:07 |
| wgrant | jelmer: Which bug? | 00:07 |
| jelmer | wgrant: the ubuntu bit of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/loggerhead/+bug/586611 | 00:08 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 586611 in loggerhead "loggerhead needs a hard dependency on simplejson" [Medium,Fix committed] | 00:08 |
| poolie | is that new? | 00:08 |
| wgrant | poolie: Yes :( | 00:08 |
| wgrant | More misfeatures. | 00:08 |
| poolie | i don't suppose it's documented other than in the source? | 00:08 |
| wgrant | jelmer: What should it be? | 00:08 |
| wgrant | poolie: lol | 00:08 |
| jelmer | wgrant: In Progress I guess (there's an upload going into Debian that fixes it that'll request a sync for) | 00:09 |
| jelmer | s/that'll/that I'll/ | 00:09 |
| wgrant | Fixed. | 00:09 |
| jelmer | wgrant: thanks | 00:09 |
| mr-russ-work | what's the best windows bzr client? | 00:47 |
| poolie | bzr explorer | 00:48 |
| mr-russ-work | does it need bazaar installed? | 00:52 |
| poolie | mr-russ-work, yes | 01:08 |
| poolie | but i think they're both included in the default windows installer? | 01:08 |
| poolie | hi spiv? | 01:16 |
| === r0bby is now known as robbyoconnor | ||
| knighthawk | thanks poolie | 01:33 |
| spiv | Hi poolie | 01:40 |
| spm | poolie: jubany now has: ii bzr 2.3.1-0~0.IS.8.04; will update the RT shortly | 01:41 |
| spiv | spm: thanks! | 01:41 |
| spiv | I'll give those imports a kick then | 01:41 |
| spm | sweet | 01:42 |
| poolie | hey spiv | 01:51 |
| poolie | i missed you before :) | 01:51 |
| spiv | Hmm, the package importer is getting lots of “lazr.restfulclient.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 500: Internal Server Error”, e.g. http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ceph.html#2011-03-25%2002:08:19.181741 | 02:21 |
| poolie | there should be an oops header | 02:30 |
| poolie | gah | 02:30 |
| poolie | i filed a bug asking for lplib to pull that into the exception | 02:30 |
| poolie | you could fix that | 02:30 |
| lifeless | timeout bug I suspect | 02:39 |
| lifeless | fix is in trunk, pending deploy due to these security issues | 02:39 |
| spiv | I've told the package-importer that it's a transient issue, so it'll automatically retry those failures after 24(?) hours I think | 02:40 |
| lifeless | well | 02:40 |
| lifeless | the problem is that filing a merge proposal loads /all/ the branch history for both sides into cache | 02:41 |
| lifeless | so if you want to retry | 02:41 |
| lifeless | do it right away | 02:41 |
| lifeless | while you're still slightly hot | 02:41 |
| achiang | hello, i noticed that debcommit has some magic to make a bzr branch automatically link up with a launchpad bug. how can i do that manually? bzr help commit doesn't really tell me much | 04:13 |
| poolie | bzr help mark-uploaded | 04:13 |
| poolie | i think | 04:13 |
| lifeless | mark-uploaded says when something has been uploaded to the archive | 04:14 |
| poolie | ah gah | 04:14 |
| poolie | misread | 04:14 |
| poolie | you want bzr ci --fixes lp:BUGNUM | 04:14 |
| achiang | ooh | 04:14 |
| achiang | ok | 04:14 |
| achiang | huh, --fixes not documented in maverick's bzr? | 04:15 |
| achiang | yes it is | 04:15 |
| achiang | i just can't read | 04:15 |
| achiang | poolie: thanks! | 04:15 |
| poolie | in 'bzr help launchpad' too | 04:15 |
| poolie | you're welcome | 04:15 |
| jderose | how do i print a summary of commits per person/ lines of change per person? looked at bzr stats, but it doesn't seem able (or maybe is sort of broken on bzr 2.3.0/natty) | 06:46 |
| poolie | i thought it did that sort of thing | 06:53 |
| achiang | is there a way to do a bzr commit interactive? i only want to commit one hunk | 06:54 |
| poolie | install bzr-interactive i think | 06:54 |
| achiang | nothing shows up in apt-cache search? | 06:55 |
| poolie | jderose, what happens from 'bzr stats'? | 06:55 |
| achiang | oh, it's a plugin | 06:55 |
| poolie | yep, bzr branch lp:bzr-interactive ~/.bazaar/plugins/interactive | 06:56 |
| achiang | interesting, i'll try that | 06:56 |
| poolie | jderose, that seems to work for me | 06:56 |
| jderose | poolie: turns out, something totally awesome! i've been up hacking too long at this point... was in the wrong branch! http://paste.ubuntu.com/585230/ | 06:57 |
| poolie | haha :) | 06:57 |
| jderose | poolie: sorry for the dumb question, thanks for the smart answer :) | 06:58 |
| poolie | np, glad it worked | 06:58 |
| poolie | don't know if it can count slocs | 06:58 |
| poolie | which obviously are highly useful in awarding bonuses | 06:58 |
| jderose | ah, gotcha... that would be cool | 06:58 |
| jderose | poolie: np, i work for this crappy startup that doesn't pay anyone anything! | 06:59 |
| * jderose is CEO :) | 06:59 | |
| poolie | congrats / good luck :) | 07:01 |
| jderose | poolie: thanks. :) while i have you... out of curiosity, is there any timeline for addressing the submodules issue with bzr? - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-git/+bug/402814 | 07:03 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 402814 in Launchpad itself "Importing revisions with submodules is not supported" [Wishlist,Triaged] | 07:03 |
| poolie | hm it should go up from wishlist | 07:04 |
| jderose | poolie: i keep telling everyone how awesome daily builds are, help them set them up, to find i can't import into bzr... i'm personally very interesting in see daily builds for gstreamer and pitivi | 07:04 |
| poolie | yeah, it's a big blocker for that | 07:04 |
| poolie | it's not close enough i could give a very reliable estimate but it's definitely in our target area | 07:05 |
| jderose | poolie: i know there are always too many things to do and it's hard to pick priorities --- no judgments! -- but just wondering :P | 07:05 |
| poolie | maybe in the next few months | 07:05 |
| jderose | so this requires a pretty big change in bzr? new storage format big? | 07:06 |
| jderose | poolie: anyway, bzr and launchpad are fantastic - that's for tools that have made my live easier! :) | 07:09 |
| poolie | just a bug | 07:09 |
| poolie | fighting with all the others to be born | 07:09 |
| jderose | poolie: gotcha. thanks again! | 07:12 |
| poolie | hi jam! | 07:21 |
| vila | hi all ! | 07:37 |
| poolie | hi there vial | 07:39 |
| poolie | *vila | 07:39 |
| vila | I can't find back the reference, but someone mentioned that reviews can gain a 'Agreed' vote instead of an 'Approved' one | 07:39 |
| poolie | really? | 07:39 |
| vila | It makes a lot of sense to me | 07:39 |
| vila | It gives a very different meaning and implies a different relationship which I think is far more appropriate | 07:40 |
| poolie | i just haven't heard of it | 07:40 |
| vila | Most of the time I "agree" with the proposal as a peer instead of "approving" it as a semi-god :-D | 07:41 |
| vila | ha, got it: http://micknelson.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/code-reviews-as-relationship-builders/ | 07:42 |
| poolie | https://lpstats.canonical.com/graphs/BzrProjectBugActivity/ -- everyone came back from holidays :) | 07:43 |
| poolie | nice idea | 07:43 |
| vila | lol | 07:43 |
| poolie | personally i would rather get 'tweak' | 07:43 |
| poolie | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_approve_this_message | 07:44 |
| vila | yeah, it's needed more often | 07:44 |
| poolie | i think 'approval' is quite a positive sentiment though | 07:46 |
| vila | poolie: granted there are positive values in approval but I think they are also there in agreement ;) | 08:00 |
| poolie | haha :) indeed | 08:01 |
| * vila back to losa hunting | 08:03 | |
| === psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|afk | ||
| jam | morning all | 09:09 |
| vila | morning jam :) | 09:09 |
| poolie | jam, vila: should i add a mechanism to deprecate commands, or just delete them? | 09:12 |
| poolie | i guess the former | 09:12 |
| jam | poolie: so you get "bzr clone is going to be removed in the next release" messages? | 09:12 |
| poolie | yeah | 09:12 |
| jam | We've loosened the deprecation stuff for api, but I think we probably want to do that for command line. | 09:12 |
| poolie | suppressable messages | 09:12 |
| vila | configurable as we did for warnings | 09:13 |
| jam | side note: "safe and easy web browser from Mozilla" (firefox) | 09:14 |
| poolie | ? | 09:14 |
| jam | just very funny to read the "helpful descriptions" rather than the name of the program | 09:14 |
| jam | Update Manager | 09:14 |
| poolie | oh, yeah, that is strange | 09:14 |
| jam | They also have a very strange (and inconsistent) Capitalization | 09:14 |
| jam | poolie: I'm tempted to go so many different ways. | 09:15 |
| jam | I would tend to say... if it is hard to do, punt | 09:15 |
| jam | but if it is easy, please deprecate | 09:15 |
| poolie | agree | 09:15 |
| poolie | it's not _that_ hard | 09:15 |
| jam | That said | 09:15 |
| poolie | some of the command framework stuff could do with some love | 09:15 |
| jam | if people are using "bzr clone" are they going to notice it tell them it will be changing? | 09:15 |
| poolie | why wouldn't they? | 09:18 |
| jam | poolie: because of all the other stuff that they ignore. They could. | 09:19 |
| jam | I just want to make sure that messages we send are relevant | 09:19 |
| jam | That people who *want* to see them are doing so. | 09:20 |
| poolie | so i can think of two ways to do this | 09:20 |
| poolie | one is, to put it into the Command object | 09:20 |
| poolie | we could just refuse it | 09:20 |
| poolie | and make them update | 09:20 |
| poolie | their muscle memory or scripts | 09:21 |
| poolie | i guess some scripts may be hard to update | 09:21 |
| jam | poolie: There was a recent discussion in python-dev about deprecation | 09:27 |
| jam | In py, they always do PendingDeprecation in X, Deprecation in X+1, Removed in X+2 | 09:27 |
| poolie | ok | 09:27 |
| jam | People were complaining | 09:27 |
| poolie | what's pending deprecation? | 09:27 |
| poolie | just in the docs? | 09:28 |
| jam | poolie: I think it is a by-default suppressed warning | 09:28 |
| jam | versus a vocal warning | 09:28 |
| jam | versus gone | 09:28 |
| jam | the complaint was because they were trying to go from 2.X to 3, and running afoul of | 09:28 |
| jam | Well it was deprecated in 3.1, so removed in 3.2 | 09:28 |
| poolie | :) | 09:28 |
| jam | but 2.7 still had something | 09:28 |
| jam | so there was no way to support 2.7 *and* 3.3 | 09:29 |
| jam | or whatever | 09:29 |
| jam | poolie: but that also highlights something | 09:29 |
| jam | people really care about Deprecation as a way to transition | 09:29 |
| jam | if we are just removing aliases to commands that already exist | 09:29 |
| jam | they can switch to the existing command, and be supported across all versions | 09:29 |
| poolie | right | 09:30 |
| poolie | and, they should be able to use bzr aliases if for some reason they can't change | 09:30 |
| jam | I think people have trouble if it was "foo" in 2.0, and "bar" in 2.4, and they don't have an easy way to support the versions they want | 09:30 |
| jam | poolie: My experience in the past, was that DeprecationWarning wasn't helping people | 09:31 |
| jam | Developers tend to use crack-of-the-day | 09:31 |
| jam | and so never see them, because they are using the new apis | 09:31 |
| jam | Users see them a lot, but don't have anything they can *do* about it | 09:31 |
| poolie | yes | 09:31 |
| poolie | and yes | 09:31 |
| poolie | showing deprecationwarning to users is nuts | 09:31 |
| jam | poolie: I *think* we can do this for commands in a tasteful way | 09:32 |
| jam | because there it is much more likely that a user is invoking the command that needs to be changed | 09:32 |
| jam | There are scripts that don't apply | 09:32 |
| jam | (if I'm using, eg, etckeeper, then don't give me deprecations cause Upstream needs to fix it) | 09:32 |
| poolie | also, it's probably unusual that someone chose to use these at all | 09:33 |
| jam | poolie: then my recommendation is to troll through bzr docs, especially ones not written by us | 09:33 |
| jam | I don't know of any particularly popular ones | 09:34 |
| jam | but I'm pretty sure I've seen wiki-like docs | 09:34 |
| jam | that said "bzr clone ..." | 09:34 |
| jam | or maybe "bzr get ..." | 09:34 |
| poolie | maybe | 09:34 |
| poolie | those docs may have bigger problems | 09:34 |
| poolie | anyhow, fair enough | 09:34 |
| jam | anyway, that's the only place where I've seen recommendations for people to use non-official names | 09:34 |
| poolie | adding a command deprecation layer just for this does not feel like the most direct route possible | 09:34 |
| poolie | k | 09:34 |
| poolie | thanks | 09:35 |
| jam | And I think some people like "bzr get" because it was shorter to type | 09:35 |
| poolie | i'm happy to add 'bzr br' or similar | 09:35 |
| poolie | once we sort this out | 09:35 |
| spiv | jam: yes, I know of at least user that prefers "bzr get" | 09:37 |
| spiv | I don't recall hearing anyone use or advocate using our current "bzr clone" alias. | 09:37 |
| jam | spiv: I think I've seen it in something like "bzr-for-git" discussion | 09:39 |
| poolie | spiv, bialix mentioned in the bug he prefers it | 09:41 |
| poolie | or was it someone else too? | 09:41 |
| jam | (because the command is more like 'git clone' than 'git branch') | 09:41 |
| jam | poolie: I'm pretty sure the one I remember is bialix | 09:41 |
| poolie | well, they might say 'bzr clone' too then | 09:41 |
| poolie | but it's not all that much like it | 09:41 |
| spiv | I'm mainly thinking of glyph, but presumably these aren't the only people :) | 09:43 |
| poolie | well, 'bzr alias get=branch' will restore it | 09:44 |
| jam | poolie: so I think you bring up a reasonable statement | 09:46 |
| jam | fail | 09:46 |
| jam | but give them advice on what to do | 09:46 |
| jam | "bzr get" --- "bzr get was removed in bzr 2.4. The recommended name is "bzr branch", to restore "bzr get" as an alias, use ..." | 09:46 |
| jam | (bzr get was removed as an alias in bzr 2.4) | 09:47 |
| jam | poolie: sort of inbetween "deprecated and I still work", and "where did the command go that I've been using for 3 years" | 09:47 |
| poolie | yep | 09:49 |
| poolie | i might implement that by adding a new command that prints the message, and binding them to that | 09:49 |
| jam | poolie: a few ways to do it. You could add "old_aliases = [...]" to Command objects | 09:49 |
| jam | if there are a lot of them | 09:49 |
| poolie | i was going to do that originally | 09:50 |
| jam | I think it depends how hard it is to get the appropriate text | 09:50 |
| poolie | it seems a bit inelegant to put it inline with the regular command stuff | 09:50 |
| jam | but I guess that is what https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/bzr/506265-command-deprecation/+merge/54828 is about? | 09:50 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 506265 in Bazaar "deprecate old command names" [High,In progress] | 09:50 |
| jam | So the "cmd_I_was_removed_in_24" knows what it is aliased to now? | 09:50 |
| poolie | right | 09:53 |
| poolie | i think i might stop for today though | 09:55 |
| jam | spiv: You mentioned you could use "lp:~/project/branch" and we'll expand ~ to ~user. When you said that, I thought "really, since when". | 09:58 |
| jam | I just looked through the logs, and *I* implemented it | 09:58 |
| jam | (2.3b1) | 09:58 |
| spiv | jam: :) | 10:36 |
| lifeless | spiv: should be able to retry those timeouts now | 10:58 |
| jam | bbiab, lunch | 11:04 |
| spiv | lifeless: I think they retry every hour actually | 12:02 |
| spiv | Oh, hmm, maybe not. | 12:03 |
| spiv | I'll give it a kick anyway | 12:03 |
| spiv | lifeless: still failing | 12:35 |
| james_w | erk | 12:51 |
| james_w | I don't like the look of http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/7ae30b44f1f904e04bbae6700b7181dd.html | 12:52 |
| james_w | and http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/3321c5cfcfcf74249b92f963453f4701.html is pretty worrying | 12:52 |
| james_w | as is http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ttf-arphic-gkai00mp.html | 12:53 |
| james_w | http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ttf-arphic-uming.html | 12:53 |
| james_w | http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ttf-arphic-ukai.html | 12:54 |
| vila | james_w: I think that's what lifeless and spiv were just talking about | 12:54 |
| james_w | though I guess those are transient with the upgrade of bzr? | 12:54 |
| vila | eerk, the no module named revisiontree is different and indeed very worrying | 12:54 |
| vila | james_w: 'no module ...' requeued | 12:56 |
| vila | james_w: and they seem to be passing now, ttf-arphic-uming requeued too | 12:58 |
| james_w | vila, great, thanks | 12:59 |
| james_w | it would be great to have a packaging system that didn't break python on upgrades | 12:59 |
| vila | thanks for noticing, I think.. yeah :) | 12:59 |
| vila | james_w: in the mean time, stopping the importer may help... | 12:59 |
| james_w | yeah | 12:59 |
| === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch | ||
| spiv | james_w: in principle the packaging system could do "mv bzrlib .old.bzrlib; mv .new.bzrlib bzrlib; rm -r bzrlib" I suppose, but I can just imagine how that would actually be pretty hairy to actually implement | 13:26 |
| spiv | james_w: (and of course even that approach has a small window of brokenness) | 13:26 |
| james_w | spiv, my guess is that dpkg is fine, it's the Python-specific stuff on top that isn't, and hopefully that can go away in a few years when Barry's stuff is widely available | 13:27 |
| spiv | Although I guess it's hard to avoid the risk of breaking running processes | 13:27 |
| spiv | Even firefox wants a restart after its package is upgraded ;) | 13:28 |
| spiv | james_w: clearly bzr should not use lazy_import so that it gets all its imports done in as short a window as possible ;) | 13:29 |
| james_w | yeah :-) | 13:29 |
| james_w | if we can't even import bzrlib sometimes though... :-) | 13:29 |
| === psynaptic|afk is now known as psynaptic | ||
| spiv | Or just have the old processes keep running against an older btrfs snapshot of the system, or something handwavy like that... | 13:30 |
| spiv | Anyway, zzz time! | 13:31 |
| james_w | night | 13:34 |
| === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell | ||
| jam | jelmer: you landed the bzr-hg change faster than Launchpad built the merge proposal for it. so there isn't a diff to read. | 14:41 |
| jam | also, weren't we wanting to pair on some changes? | 14:41 |
| jam | I don't remember which ones off-hand | 14:41 |
| jam | but maybe we could do that early next week? | 14:41 |
| jelmer | jam: I've mostly been using merge proposals as a way to track individual changes, but self-reviewing as I always have | 14:42 |
| jelmer | jam: Yeah, some pair programming would be nice | 14:42 |
| jam | jelmer: sure. Just mentioning that tracking the changes isn't possible when you land faster than they get tracked :) | 14:42 |
| jelmer | jam: heh, fair enough :) | 14:43 |
| === deryck is now known as deryck[lunch] | ||
| === psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|lunch | ||
| === psynaptic|lunch is now known as psynaptic | ||
| === deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck | ||
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch | ||
| === psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|afk | ||
| === psynaptic|afk is now known as psynaptic | ||
| === Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha | ||
| === psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|food | ||
| === herb__ is now known as herb | ||
| === mnepton is now known as mneptok | ||
| achiang_ | hello, how do i resolve a merge conflict? i get a foo.BASE and a foo.THIS, not sure which one is which | 21:32 |
| achiang_ | but the base file foo doesn't seem to exist at all | 21:34 |
| achiang_ | ah, i think that means my merge source rm'ed foo | 21:34 |
| === psynaptic|food is now known as psynaptic|afk | ||
| wgrant | maxb: Hi. | 23:18 |
| ablmf | How to automatically "push" after every commit? | 23:34 |
| bouncingzip | use a bound branch. | 23:35 |
| ablmf | bouncingzip: do u mean use a "checkout"? | 23:36 |
| bouncingzip | actually, depends what you're trying to do exactly | 23:40 |
| bouncingzip | maybe relevant: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/460632/bazaar-bound-branch-commit-and-update | 23:40 |
| bouncingzip | if you want the tree somewhere remote, those are suggestions on how to do it, if you want a remote branch automatically mirrored each commit, binding to it (which yes, is the same as using checkout originally) is probably what you want. | 23:44 |
| ablmf | bouncingzip: I think the plugin helps, thx! | 23:47 |
| === psynaptic|afk is now known as psynaptic | ||
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