[09:40] <zniavre> good morning
[09:41] <zniavre> any ideas how to trick the unity launcher ?
[10:45] <vish> chaotic: no probs, I just mentioned that since Paul said "Otto knows".. just seems Paul sniffed too much of the ink from fonts and got carried away there ;)
[10:46] <chaotic> vish: you might be right
[15:11] <stjohnmedrano> hi guys
[15:11] <stjohnmedrano> anyone around?
[15:13] <stjohnmedrano> where can i download icons for every release?
[15:21] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  yeah I am here also
[15:21] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  essentially the logos on that link I gave are correct,, the logo didnt change for almost 5 years...until the recent one also on that page
[15:22] <coz_> maybe 6 years actually
[15:22] <stjohnmedrano> how about the logos of every release?
[15:22] <stjohnmedrano> i mean let say Lucid
[15:22] <stjohnmedrano> or Maverick? if there is? hehehe...
[15:23] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  well I believe lucid was the first to exhibit the new logo
[15:23] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  and its been the same
[15:23] <coz_> since
[15:23] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  now the logo is essentially a red circle with a white ubuntu symbol in the center
[15:24] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  before that it was just the typical orange/red/yellowish logo
[15:24] <stjohnmedrano> but now is the logo is orange?
[15:24] <coz_> stjohnmedrano, well the outside circle is somewhat orange yes
[15:24] <coz_> but the logo itself is white placed in the center of that circle
[15:25] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  this is essentially the new logo   http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-logo-and-circle-of-friends/
[15:25] <coz_> stjohnmedrano, the first one on that list is the one you will see most often
[15:26] <stjohnmedrano> yes
[15:26] <stjohnmedrano> you know i am a color blind person
[15:26] <stjohnmedrano> before i really dont like strong colors
[15:27] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  ah ok  ,, completely color blind = everything in black and white ,, or colour resitent like reds or greens?
[15:27] <coz_> resistent rather
[15:27] <stjohnmedrano> i would say i wont appreciate colors
[15:27] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  and are you an artist as well?
[15:28] <stjohnmedrano> not really, just making it a hubby
[15:28] <stjohnmedrano> and practice
[15:28] <stjohnmedrano> hehehe
[15:28] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  excellent  :)
[15:28] <stjohnmedrano> there is this website in our community and i wan t show off all the ubuntu logos from previus releases
[15:29] <stjohnmedrano> *previous releases
[15:29] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  well in reality that would be only 2 logos ,, the previous one and the current one
[15:29] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  i dont recall any other logos on ubuntu,, just thos two
[15:29] <stjohnmedrano> ah, ok
[15:30] <coz_> I am looking for the previous one,, i think I have a copy here
[15:30] <stjohnmedrano> how long have u been with ubuntu?
[15:30] <stjohnmedrano> can i ask for it?
[15:30] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  I started using ubuntu when it first came out and with this group s hortly after that
[15:31] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  hold on let me check if I have both here
[15:31] <stjohnmedrano> wow
[15:31] <stjohnmedrano> i just started last 2009 and my first distro was karmic it was the release of karmic.
[15:32] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  do you know about svg  images?
[15:32] <stjohnmedrano> nope
[15:33] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  ok,, well first let me upload two images...these are both  "case badges"  the first I had only a minor role in the second is ,, as far as I know,, the one I created    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/00.svg     http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/01badge.svg
[15:33] <coz_> the first is the older one the second the newer one
[15:33] <stjohnmedrano> ok,
[15:34] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  if you need just the logos  and in another format , I can convert t hat here
[15:34] <stjohnmedrano> i am using gimp
[15:34] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  those will open in firefox
[15:34] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  well do you want just  the logo itself?
[15:35] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  I can extract that from those files ,, hold on
[15:35] <stjohnmedrano> this logos are cool, can we use it for printing stickers?
[15:36] <stjohnmedrano> the pink one is very cool
[15:38] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  ok   http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/logos.tar.gz
[15:39] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  that is a package of the two logos by them selves in .png
[15:39] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  download that,, extract it
[15:39] <stjohnmedrano> kk
[15:39] <stjohnmedrano> this will do
[15:40] <stjohnmedrano> this will help me  a lot
[15:40] <coz_> cool
[15:40] <stjohnmedrano> i cnt save the first 2 that you give me
[15:40] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  as I said,, I dont think I can recall any other logos... the orange one and the one inside the circle are the only two official ones I remember
[15:40] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  well they should open in firfox and then  ctrl+s  to save
[15:41] <coz_> firefox
[15:41] <stjohnmedrano> ok
[15:41] <stjohnmedrano> ok, thanks coz
[15:41] <coz_> stjohnmedrano,  no problem
[15:42] <stjohnmedrano> i have to go now, thanks
[15:42] <coz_> ok
[16:14] <zniavre> good afternoon
[16:14] <coz_> zniavre,  hey guy :)
[16:15] <zniavre> still stuck with unity launcher mods, and now im wondering where are the close/maximize/minimize icon for maximized windows used on app-menu-indicator ?
[16:15] <zniavre> coz_,  \o/
[16:16] <coz_> zniavre,  in 11.04 ?
[16:16] <zniavre> yes
[16:16] <coz_> zniavre,  I believe the close max min buttons are on the global menu  now
[16:16] <darkmatter> moving targets ftw! \o/
[16:17] <coz_> zniavre,  so , if the window is focused,, the min max close buttons should show up near the logo on the upper panel far to the left
[16:17] <coz_> darkmatter,  hey guy :)
[16:17] <darkmatter> heya coz_
[16:17] <zniavre> where inside a folder ...
[16:17] <coz_> zniavre,  mm a folder?
[16:18] <coz_> zniavre,  the buttons should also show up in the panel
[16:18] <zniavre> where are the .png of this 3 buttons
[16:18] <zniavre> english ...  pffff
[16:18] <darkmatter> iirc they're hardcoded
[16:18] <coz_> zniavre,  that one I am not sure of.. probaly in the gtk file
[16:18] <coz_> or as darkmatter  mentioned  they could well be hard coded.. which would be dumb
[16:19] <zniavre> arg that s what i did not wanted to know ...
[16:19] <coz_> :)
[16:19] <coz_> zniavre,   check on #ayatana     that's where the main developers for natty are
[16:19] <zniavre> darkmatter,  launcher background also that s right ?
[16:20] <darkmatter> coz_: the entire panel used to be hardcoded. it was only fairly recently when they had it respect icons and colors :P
[16:20] <coz_> darkmatter,  I am wondering if they did this to the global menu on ubuntu 11.04
[16:21] <darkmatter> coz_: seems to be the new trend. not that it's _bad_ to hardcode, but with something like caption controls (window buttons) it's not sensible, since they are generally theme dependant
[16:21] <coz_> zniavre,  either  #ubuntu+1  or  #ayatana  ,, someone there could explain this better
[16:21] <zniavre> coz_,  im asking right now in #ayatana
[16:21] <coz_> darkmatter,  so its likely that they simply pulled the min max buttons  out of the theme to show on the global menu,, this would make more sense
[16:22] <coz_> zniavre,  cool
[16:22] <zniavre> wait and see ...
[16:22] <coz_> :)
[16:22] <zniavre> but i hav the feeling it is hardcoded im not able to gives a pink look to this launcher
[16:23] <coz_> zniavre,  if not there ,, since that is a channel with "only" developers,, maybe #ubuntu+1 ,, although the min max close buttons are generally pulled from the current theme,, I could fire up the natty box and check later
[16:23] <coz_> zniavre,  are you taling about the left sied panel launcher or the upper gnome panel with global menu?
[16:24] <coz_> side
[16:24] <zniavre> left side
[16:24] <coz_> zniavre,  ah ,, then most likely hard coded,, i was under the impression though that a few user settings were going to become available
[16:24] <zniavre> was with mutter
[16:24] <coz_> not sure  I think I read something about themeing it  but I could be wrong
[16:24] <coz_> zniavre,  oh
[16:24] <zniavre> http://g33q.co.za/2010/10/29/using-unity-day-4-custom-unity-launcher-colors-and-patterns/
[16:25] <coz_> zniavre,  oh that is for 11.04
[16:25] <zniavre> it's what i m using
[16:26] <darkmatter> coz_: I remember the Patel guy saying he _would_ respect a themes window buttons if he could find out a way to have them match the panel. dunno the progress on that though
[16:26]  * darkmatter sneezes violently
[16:26] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh i see
[16:26]  * zniavre opening harraps dictionnary to find the word sneezes *
[16:26] <darkmatter> freakin' lingering cold or such. if it's sill around next week I'm having the dr.s kill it with an anti-viral
[16:27] <coz_> darkmatter,  yikes
[16:27] <zniavre> :o(
[16:28] <darkmatter> zniavre: sneez is when you make the "ACHCHO!" sound ;)
[16:28] <coz_> darkmatter,  try saying "horseshit"  while sneezing :)
[16:29] <darkmatter> coz_: well. my immune sytem is still recovering. so best not to ignore the *pfft* things. last time I did that I ended up in the emergency ward xD
[16:29] <coz_> darkmatter,  yikes again guy
[16:31] <coz_> zniavre,  I am not sure how. the guys in #ayatana are about answering questions though
[16:31] <darkmatter> coz_: I had fifths disease (as they call it, basically a mild viral infection weaker than a cold that only lasts about 6 days. probably got it from my son), normally doesn't even bother an adult much, but attacks red blood cells. so yeah. hospital stay was fun and all :P
[16:32] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh man ..just promise me you will consistently take care of yourself
[16:32] <coz_> which I now you already do
[16:32] <coz_> know
[16:33] <zniavre> http://i.imgur.com/0jR2s.png    > launcher should be pink as a panther
[16:33] <darkmatter> coz_: I do. I'll be fine if I can go without getting sick again for about 4 months. should have reasonable immunity then. it's not my fault modern medicine is still in the dark ages. lol
[16:33] <coz_> darkmatter,  cool
[16:33] <coz_> zniavre,  this is your desktop?
[16:33] <zniavre> it is...
[16:33] <coz_> zniavre, very attractive :)
[16:34] <zniavre> ho ?
[16:34] <zniavre> coool
[16:34] <coz_> zniavre,  why do you want a pink launcher?
[16:34] <zniavre> to really see if my mod is working
[16:34] <zniavre> :o)
[16:34] <coz_> oh!  ok that makes sense
[16:35] <coz_> zniavre,  I like the look of your desktop,,, i stopped using dark themes because they were generally not well designed,, but yours seems quite attractive
[16:35] <zniavre> :o)  thank you
[16:37] <zniavre> http://i.imgur.com/p2X4y.png    > this is with gedit (as OMG mockups )  still bugged but almost possible
[16:38] <coz_> zniavre,  oh!  you mean the icon backgrounds as pink?
[16:38] <coz_> no sorry looking at that wrong
[16:38] <coz_> zniavre,  ooo I like that chrome icon,, is that default?
[16:38] <darkmatter> coz_: the issue with dark themes is redability. most are evil, you have to squint to see stuff
[16:39] <coz_> darkmatter,  yes and also choosing font and other colors associated with it,,, sometimes I dont know what the creator was thinking with some of the highlight colors and text values
[16:39] <darkmatter> coz_: I find a big help is using semi-bold fonts (I use dark in blender, gimp and stuff, just havent applied my dark themes on this install)
[16:41] <coz_> darkmatter,  there used to be a dark them I sort of liked  named  "miro"  but although I like the design,, I had to manually change many of the things in it inorder to see what the heck i was doing
[16:41] <coz_> zniavre,  the third icon down from the top on the launcher..is that a chrome launcher icon?
[16:41] <darkmatter> coz_: the worst part is most dark themes don't consider widgets. like "where'd that damn scrollbar go? I know it's here somewhere!". it's like a scavenger hunt xD
[16:42] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh for sure,,, widgets are exactly what I meant,,
[16:42] <coz_> darkmatter,  I just dont understand why they dont just step back and ask,.,, "is this the best for most users or just to my own liking"
[16:42] <zniavre> chrome yes
[16:43] <coz_> zniavre,  oo is that a default icon or one that you found or created?
[16:44] <darkmatter> I actually like chrome's new icon. but you know me. I prefer less blobs of color.
[16:44] <coz_> darkmatter,  is that the new icon?
[16:46] <darkmatter> coz_: yup. matte and not a blob
[16:46] <coz_> darkmatter,  i am going to have to find that one ,,  it is attractive
[16:47] <darkmatter> coz_: it's in the new build(s) of chrome, matching blue one in chromium
[16:47] <coz_> doesn anyone make the complete set of icons like this?  http://findicons.com/icon/70637/mute
[16:49] <darkmatter> coz_: yeah. you can grab the full token from deviantart (I think it's on gnome-look as well)
[16:49] <coz_> darkmatter,  do you know the name?
[16:50] <darkmatter> token. just do a search on da. customization > icons
[16:50] <darkmatter> anyway. bbiab. gotta make a run to the store. out of coffee ;)
[16:54] <zniavre> coz_,  sorry baby wes crying ...
[16:54] <zniavre> was*
[16:54] <coz_> zniavre,  :)
[16:57] <zniavre> btw im trying the new scrollbars it's quite funny
[16:58] <coz_> zniavre,  oh!  I havent tried them yet,, are they buggy?
[16:58] <zniavre> not really just some application can 't handle it
[16:58] <coz_> zniavre,  not surprised :)
[16:59] <zniavre> :o)
[16:59] <zniavre> first of them all XUL things
[17:02] <zniavre> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Clarity?content=135654
[17:02] <coz_> zniavre,  ah, those are sort of nice
[20:40] <darkmatter> vish: it's sooo ugly! http://i.imgur.com/MWckQ.png
[20:44] <vish> darkmatter: "it" ?
[20:45] <darkmatter> vish: the theme :P (mines not ready yet. though as you can see. I'm starting work on a metacity)
[20:45] <vish> hehe!
[20:47] <darkmatter> vish: next step, the button glyphs
[20:49] <vish> darkmatter: you have switched to natty? are you on maverick?
[20:49] <vish> *or are
[20:49] <darkmatter> maverick atm
[20:51]  * vish when troy will blog about Ubuntu wallpapers
[20:52] <vish> it's become like troy's 6 month regular feature!
[20:53] <darkmatter> lol
[20:54] <darkmatter> vish: one or two of the natty ons are of somewhat appealing quality imo. the rest are.. meh
[20:55] <vish> yea, if it were meh it would have been OK.. but some are whaaaaaaaaa!
[20:56] <vish>  3 narwhals is really too much!
[20:56] <darkmatter> hehe
[21:13] <darkmatter> vish: I'm starting an awesome firefox mod. no tabbar and no menubar (and no scrollbars, well. tranparent floating scrolly thingy). tab 'indicator' toolbar bit with a number overlay. gives a alttablike interface (but better) :D
[21:13] <darkmatter> and a super minimal ui
[21:15] <darkmatter> probably replace the progressbar-in-address with a loading indicator (I think the whole progressbar thing looks fugly in a browser)
[21:18] <darkmatter> custom bookmarks and history overlay-thingies
[21:20] <darkmatter> just can't decide if the overlay bits should be actual overlays or custom dialog bits... hmmm
[21:22] <darkmatter> overlay is simpler in some ways. but custom dialogs would alow for workflow presence (like history: could be a visual timeline you could resize and place below the browser window). both approaches have their ups and downs
[21:24] <darkmatter> especially since I'm considering killing the forward navigation button ;)
[21:24] <coz_> zniavre,  did you get that question answered?
[21:24] <darkmatter> coz_: vish: ^^ opinions?
[21:25] <coz_> darkmatter,  I like the idea of the custom dialog instead
[21:25] <coz_> choices choices :)
[21:25] <darkmatter> yeah. I wan't to reinvent browsing. customizing firefox is the quickest way to experiment with ideas
[21:26] <coz_> darkmatter,  for sure ,, good luck :)
[21:27] <vish> darkmatter: (thinking crazy out loud here) hmm, maybe just do the navigation as a pathbar in the address bar, completely dropping the back, forward buttons
[21:28] <vish> not sure how tht would work, but just a crazy idea :D
[21:30] <darkmatter> but basisically. toolbar is: <navigation> ( <-- --> or just <--) <location> (adress/search then stop/reload all in the field (hiden protocols. maybe 'smart' for certain (popular) sites, like just saying 'facebook" or 'google" instead of "www.<whatever>.com/org/net/etc for example) <dynamic site/service integration bit with the 'page' indicator-tab-replacement at the right side>. then fixed context bits
[21:31] <vish> there was some rumour about chrome dropping the address bar itself..
[21:31] <darkmatter> vish: I've considered it. but going back is kinda universal as a pattern (be it a "show all" context, or just back
[21:31] <vish> yea..
[21:32] <darkmatter> vish: I'm thinking of combining address/title. have it show the title by default after the back button, then show the entry when needed only
[21:33] <darkmatter> so basically its like the toolbar is the titlebar. with a wm that allows app specific decoration you could even strip the titlebar and have the close<whatever> on the toolbar
[21:35] <darkmatter> and have the address support breadcrumbs (mine does, but its an extention and it needs work. it _should_ support location as a trail instead of "replace the /", but that would require a ton of work, and probably most sites still wouldn't support it properly
[21:36] <darkmatter> comprimises are a pita ;p
[21:36] <vish> :)
[21:36] <darkmatter> typos not withstanding
[21:38] <darkmatter> vish: i think the browser should be less browser, more 'web viewer' with site specific bits (be it though prism-like-functionality or just specific extensions to make popular sites less webby and more web/desktop convergence type of behaviour
[21:39] <darkmatter> so immersive. basically
[21:40] <darkmatter> you can still browse with it, obviously, but it shouldn't be disjointed like the current generation of browser interfaces
[21:43] <darkmatter> vish: like. for facebook. I want to do an extention bit (using stlyesheets et all) stripping out the cluttered bits (the right column on facebook) and facebooks topbar/banner, integrating the notification bits/session control in the dynamic, site specific space after the title/address combo thingy
[21:43] <darkmatter> if that makes any sense to you :P
[21:45] <darkmatter> similar for other sites, though extending some of the integration would require additional thought (depending on the site
[21:45] <darkmatter> so kinda like web apps without web apps ;)
[21:45] <vish> kinda like unifying all sites..
[21:45] <vish> btw, dint know you are a facebook addict !  ;p
[21:45] <darkmatter> vish: yeah. basically a content viewer for the web
[21:46] <darkmatter> vish: lol. I'm not a face-case. I just have relatives and contacts that haven't realized there are more efficent methods of communication :P
[21:46] <darkmatter> yay! more typos
[21:50] <darkmatter> vish: and general searches (including web bits) are handled by the desktops search facilities(including image displays, etc) the 'lets be able to browse from the browser" bit is just for convenience. I like the "search is search, photos are photos (regardless of where they are located), same for music and such. basically, global providers. secondary apps provide more of a viewer/playback/edit/whatever functionality.. if you get my me
[21:50] <darkmatter> aning
[21:51] <vish> yea, they are trying to do that with unity search
[21:51] <darkmatter> simplify the crap out of things
[21:52] <darkmatter> it become the activity instead of the application for the most part. you simply do stuff
[21:54] <darkmatter> use the system search to search the web for news or whatnot. see an article that interests you? open it in a reader pane/window (humanized) to check it out. video search? same (live previews in search), whant to actually watch/save it, open it in the player ui
[21:55] <darkmatter> I wan't most secondary applications to be as simple as possible when it comes to chrome
[21:55] <darkmatter> still making sense? :P
[21:56] <vish> heh, yup.. i just re-read it again a second time to be sure ;)
[21:57] <darkmatter> like, checking/reading/reviewing new mail. I don't want to open my mail application (thats more of an organizer/library than anything)
[21:58] <vish> hmm, that would need quite some intelligent underlying semantics
[21:58] <darkmatter> you can send the mail to whatever folder based on mail service or whatnot. but don't shove a list of _everything_ in my face just to get new mail
[21:59] <darkmatter> vish: yeah. and that's why I drive most fellow designers/devs to a gasket blowing lightshow. I think and play around with such semantics. they just "meh.. good enough" :P
[22:03]  * vish bbiab
[22:03] <darkmatter> vish: as far as the mail bit goes. I came across a similar concept as an actual app for pod/pad/phone/mac that does basically the same thing (though differently in ui execution than my idea), you can optionally open you actual mail client/site(s) from it if you so choose, but thats just an "open in<whatever> type button thing.
[22:03] <darkmatter> so that is at least proof it can be done
[22:04] <darkmatter> just the concept is generally the same
[22:07] <darkmatter> you have your big fat bloated apps for when you explicitly need them, but common, everyday computing is handled simpler, more clearly and concisely than the way we do things now (conceptual atm, but still. the idea works. some similar concepts for portable devices, but they're not as.... robust... as what is ofen needed of full fledged systems)