ohsixthought the process still seems rather nebulous to me, i'll call that a result00:02
ohsix(-t, agh)00:03
brycehcjwatson, no, since that is a private unreleased version of -fglrx the issues mostly are just email, no bug #'s unfortunately00:14
cjwatsonbryceh: OK - is it urgent for beta?00:14
cjwatsonbryceh: (I may have another upload coming anyway, and I've queued it up)00:14
brycehcjwatson, it depends on whether we get -fglrx in time for beta, which is uncertain (no eta's given)00:15
cjwatsonok, well let me know as early as you can if it looks like we're going to be out of sync00:15
cjwatsonit's in lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/natty/grub2/natty00:15
ohsixoh boy, my logoff dialogue and some polictkit windows earlier were showing broken font unicode boxes, i fear a reboot00:20
ohsixwho keeps changing the wifi icon D: the elements are almost too small to resolve now, and the bottom looks misshappen00:24
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
cndohsix, which bug was it that you were hitting?00:53
ohsixcnd: the 2 finger gestures on SemiMultitouch (well put) devices00:54
ohsixthough it appears to still be doing it00:54
cndohsix, do you have the bug link?00:54
cndI just want to make sure everything is as expected00:54
ohsixthese are the bugs i posted yesterday after our discussion, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/739916 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/739922 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/73992400:56
ubottuUbuntu bug 739916 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-mouse-properties doesn't offer touchpad options for 2 finger clicks" [Undecided,New]00:56
ubottuUbuntu bug 739922 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "touchpad disable key does not work (acts as if no key was pressed, no event in xev)" [Undecided,New]00:56
ubottuUbuntu bug 739924 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "device acceleration profile incorrect for synaptics touchpad in natty" [Undecided,New]00:56
ohsixthe one related to 2 finger clicks is the first, guess i assumed a bit that it was desired, but didn't have configuration00:56
cndoh yeah, ok00:57
cndI work on so many bugs I just forget what is what00:57
cndohsix, I don't really think the change should have had any effect00:57
cndso I'm not sure what to think :)00:58
ohsixit didn't, i just read a little into it00:58
ohsixi thought it'd disable the 2 finger gestures when the touchpad only fakes it00:58
ohsixnot a problem00:58
cndohsix, I don't think the scroll issue is going to be fixed for natty00:59
ohsixthat's fine, it can be disabeld in gnome-mouse-properties00:59
ohsixthe reason i filed the bug that way was to get something like that for the 2 finger right click00:59
ohsixsince it's probably desirable for someone, but it happens way too often with one finger for me; and i'd rather it disabled01:00
cndthat should be fixed, but probably won't be for natty either...01:00
cndit would require too big of a change at this point01:00
ohsixcan you pin it disabled then, if theres no ui to do it01:01
cndwell, some people may like it, and it may work well for them01:01
cndso we can't really make that kind of a change either at this point01:01
ohsixit could01:01
cndbecause we don't really know how well it works for everyone01:01
ohsixexcept on these touchpads where it's almost assuredly wrong, without being able to adjust the threshold for it01:02
cndwe don't really know which touchpads it's definitely wrong though01:02
ohsixthere are 2 very clear classes of synaptics touchpads, ones that fake it and ones that don't; the ones that fake it use heuristics that aren't always correct (can change with temperature and humidity even)01:02
cndit may work fine for some people who have the "fake it" kind of touchpads01:02
ohsixwell, you do; i could tell you too, they have different protocols01:02
cndyeah, we can tell the two device types apart01:03
cndbut perhaps it works great for some of the "fake it" kinds, and it doesn't work for some other "fake it" kinds01:03
ohsixthe ones with heuristics need extra input that there isn't ui for either; to make it work well01:03
ohsixi get your position but i can't help but think it's arguing against changing it, it personally annoys me and does not work well; it may work well for some unknown mass of people,  but i'm at least here telling you it doesn't01:04
ohsixi could enable it manually before natty as well; it did not work well then, and i had no desire to01:04
cndohsix, I do agree with you in that it probably should be disabled by default01:04
cndand it's something we probably want to attack upstream01:05
cndin the X community01:05
ohsixbut now it's on by default and theres no ui for the sensitivity so it can't even be made to work sort of well01:05
cndwhere the driver is setting it on by default01:05
cndohsix, this is a change in behavior from maverick?01:05
brycehare we in freeze for beta?  do I need to get a freeze exception for an xserver bug fix?01:05
cnd(if you already said that, sorry)01:05
ohsixalong with the acceleration profiles being wrong (takes 4 swipes to get to the other side of a small screen with sens/accel all the way up)01:06
cndbryceh, we might want to patch out auto-enabling two finger tap for right click when only touch size is available (for ohsix's issue)01:06
ohsixwhen mav was in alpha/beta the sensitivy stuff changed as well; but by the time it was released it was fixed01:06
cndbryceh, I don't know if you've kept up with the issue01:06
brycehcnd, I haven't, no01:07
cndbryceh, I'll try to summarize01:07
cndthere's two types of synaptics trackpads that are concerned here01:07
cndmultifinger trackpads and trackpads that just give you some touch area size01:07
cndin natty, the default of x synaptics is to enable right click on two finger taps01:08
cndincluding a heuristic to enable right click on non-multi-finger trackpads when the touch size looks like two fingers01:08
cndmaverick didn't default to this01:08
cndand according to ohsix, the touch size heuristic just doesn't work well for all trackpads when set to the default thresholds01:09
ohsix(and there is no ui to adjust the thresholds either)01:09
cndso I wonder if we shouldn't leave two tap for right click disabled for the touch size type trackpads01:09
ohsixsince ui cant be added to enable/disable it like the 2 finger scroll, it would be best to disable it on the one type of touchpad until there is, so i can turn it off like the 2 finger scroll, and fwiw, if i could adjust the threshold that applies to both (click and scroll) i could probably use 2finger scroll as well01:10
cndohsix, the one thing I would note is that I'm very resource stretched myself01:11
cndso although I agree with you01:11
brycehohsix, yeah ui for configuration would be nice.  Might be hard given the various interrelating drivers though, plus some of this is a moving target.  In any case don't think we have people on hand to write gtk config stuff presently01:11
cndI may not be able to fix the bug in time for natty release01:11
ohsixit all comes down to setting properties with xinput; which is what i'll have to do manually in either case01:12
cndI may not be able to fix it myself that is01:12
cndbut if you or someone else has a patch, I'd be happy to review it01:13
ohsixi wouldn't know where to start01:18
brycehapt-get source xserver-xorg-input-synaptics   ;-)01:19
ohsixyea i'm reading it now01:19
cnd$ bzr branch lp:ubuntu/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics01:19
cndif you like bzr01:19
bryceheven better01:19
ohsixshould i be looking through ubuntu's version of it? or is upstream enough for the likes of natty01:20
brycehcnd, I'm going to go ahead and upload the xserver package with that fix you put in from earlier.  My reading of beta devel policy is that once freeze is in effect changes are held for review, so it'll automatically fall to the release team to allow targeted fixes through01:21
brycehcnd, so it'll give them the option of including the fix in beta without forcing it01:21
cndbryceh, that's fine01:22
cndI don't think the release team likes me right now though...01:22
brycehohsix, either one should be fine (they should be fairly close to the same code, and we can take care of porting fixes one way or the other once there is a validated/reviewed fix)01:22
brycehcnd, oops, did you break something?01:22
cndbryceh, no, I never break anything!01:23
cndthough that's not the issue :)01:23
ohsixawesome, just about everything has changed since i last looked01:26
ohsixhttp://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-input-synaptics/commit/?id=ee99d4f7bc3374e8bac083ac4ea159f5da43db06 huhu, not it, but related01:30
bryceh[ubuntu/natty] xorg-server 2:1.10.0-0ubuntu2 (Accepted)01:34
ohsixcnd: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-input-synaptics/commit/?id=ffa6dc2809734a6aaa690e9133d6761480603a6801:34
brycehinteresting; perhaps beta is not quite frozen yet?01:34
cndbryceh, I blame you if xserver is broken :)01:35
ohsixemulateTwoFingerMinZ defaulted to a really high value so never let Synaptics devices to emulate 2-fingers by default. Changed default to a low value (same as FingerHigh)01:35
ohsix(from commit message)01:35
ohsixthat min z is the threshold used in the heuristic i was talking about01:35
brycehcnd, heh.  Well, I installed the debs on my desktop here and have been running it no prob, but this has a mouse not a touchpad so ymmv01:36
brycehin any case, can't be any worse than what happened this morning01:37
bryceh(huge leak in water main due to tree roots breaking a pipe in my front yard)01:37
ohsixcnd: i cheated and asked the guy who did it :D01:37
TheMusobryceh: Ouch that is certainly not fun.01:37
cndbryceh, oh man, not fun!01:38
cndohsix, hmmm, we could reverse patch that01:38
cndbryceh, check out the commit ohsix pasted ^^01:38
brycehcnd, reverse patching that is certainly doable01:39
brycehwill that solve it?01:39
cndohsix, do you know how to add that as a reverse patch to a debian package?01:39
cndgenerate the reverse patch, stuff it into debian/patches/01:40
cndand add it to debian/patches/series01:40
ohsixyea, but it probably wouldn't hurt to go over it again01:40
cndyeah, then you would build and test it :)01:40
cndand then you can post a debdiff in the bug or a merge request01:40
ohsixapparently EmulateTwoFingerMinW can be changed as well, rather than reverting it01:43
cndohsix, if you have something you want me to review, please subscribe me to the bug01:46
cndmy lp id is chasedouglas01:46
cndthat way I'll see it :)01:46
ohsixwhat's the kung fu to generate a patch to revert automatically? i've always just edited the patches01:48
ohsix(mind you, not large patches)01:48
rezbitQuick question: I am interested to know if libsdl is compiled with GCC SSP and I don't know where in the documentation to find such information. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GccSsp lists a few specific packages with problems.01:55
brycehrezbit, I'm not familiar with libsdl, but in general you can 'apt-get source <package>' and then look in that package's debian/control to see what flags get passed to configure01:59
ohsixok remind me how to build a package, fakeroot debian/rules or something? :D01:59
YokoZarhmm, why would one of the binary packages (of a multi-binary source package) not have a copyright file while the others would?02:00
cndohsix, did you use apt-get source?02:00
cndor bzr?02:00
RAOFYokoZar: Because cdbs has symlinked it to one of its dependencies?02:01
cndohsix, ok, I'd suggest using debuild02:01
YokoZarRAOF: debhelper in this case02:01
cndohsix, just running debuild should do it02:01
RAOFYokoZar: I'm not entirely sure at what level the hoovering is done; it could be further down.  When you install the package is the copyright missing?02:02
YokoZarRAOF: yup, no copyright in the .deb...nor a symlink02:03
ohsixdoes whatever that applies patches not like diff --git format patches?02:06
cndohsix, it should work02:07
brycehI usually use diff -Nurp fwiw02:08
ionNurp derp, herp02:08
RAOFYokoZar: Well, then it would appear to be not what I'm thiking of.02:09
YokoZarRAOF: and thus stumps me too :(02:09
micahgYokoZar: cdbs package?02:09
YokoZarmicahg: debhelper02:09
micahgno idea then02:10
ohsixmaybe it would help if i checked out the right version ubuntu uses instead of using HEAD :D02:10
RAOFmicahg: Yeah, we've covered that :)02:11
cndohsix, that would help :)02:11
cndohsix, if you'd rather, the real ubuntu packaging branch is kept in git02:11
cndI forgot to mention that02:12
lifelessbarry: reminder: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/60817302:14
ubottuUbuntu bug 608173 in Launchpad itself "View all (or more) PPA package build statuses" [Undecided,Expired]02:14
=== slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: beta freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper -> maverick | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Current Friendly Patch Pilots: smoser
ohsixwell i checked out the right version & i'm probably doing other things wrong, but it doesn't apply when i run debuild, http://paste.ubuntu.com/585153/02:18
cndohsix, have you tried applying it manually?02:20
cndto check that it will work02:20
rezbitbryceh: heh... http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-sdl/unstable/libsdl1.2/debian/patches/222_joystick_crash.diff?op=blame&rev=0&sc=002:22
rezbitThis is what caused me to look around for SSP in the first place. Apparently this isn't upstream yet.02:23
ohsixi cant figure this out D:02:28
cndohsix, I can try to help you out later02:28
ohsixi'm gonna check out the bzr thing and try there02:28
rezbithm... well it is in upstream SVN fwiw, but it's not in 1.2.1402:29
cndohsix, just to be clear, my definition of later is sometime next week02:31
ohsixi'll have it ready soon02:31
cndI didn't want you waiting around for me in a few hours02:31
cndcause I'll be asleep02:31
brycehrezbit, typically you can put in a bug to request the patch be backported.  If you don't get a response on it within a week (i.e. after beta is out) feel free to sub me to the bug and I'll sponsor02:32
ohsixpatch applies02:34
ohsixi just copied the file to a .new and edited it D:02:36
ohsixhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/585159/ looks pretty much the same to me, brb testing it02:36
rezbitbryceh: Well I don't have Ubuntu and gentoo doesn't have aptitude either. http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/maverick/libsdl1.2 is the closest I've seen to getting the source for the currently shipping libsdl1.202:38
rezbitThe bug exists in upstream 1.2.13-1402:38
ohsixyay, works02:39
cndohsix, do you know how to propose it using bzr and lp?02:39
psusicjwatson, oh crap, beta freeze.. does that mean my dmraid/parted fixes didn't make the cut, or can you still sneak that through?02:41
ohsixcnd: nope02:41
cndohsix, ok, push to lp:02:41
ohsixwith what credentials02:42
cndbzr push lp:~<your lp id>/ubuntu/natty/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/<some branch name>02:42
cndthe branch name could be lp<bug number>02:42
cndor something descriptive02:42
ohsixdoes bzr have changesets, do i need to apply it there then push; i've never used bzr02:42
cndlike "no-touch-size-emulation"02:42
cndbzr, oh, you need to commit locally02:42
cndbzr commit02:43
psusiholy crap! multiarch support has arrived?  I thought that was given up on years ago!02:43
ohsixpsusi: you didn't notice all those FFe's for multiarch? :D02:43
RAOFpsusi: No; like a peat fire it merely simmered underground :)02:43
psusiohsix, feature freeze exceptions?  where would I have seen those?02:44
ohsixpsusi: in changelogs for package updates in natty02:44
=== asac_ is now known as asac
psusiohsix, I've actually not switched to running natty yet.. still on maverick with just a few packages upgraded to natty versions02:44
ohsixi see02:44
slangasekgiven up, hah02:45
cndslangasek, is this revenge after being the release manager for previous releases?02:46
psusiit didn't seem stable enough yet and then a bug cropped up in partman-auto that hangs the installer for me a few weeks ago... I guess I need to just take a dump and dist-upgrade02:46
psusislangasek, I remember being very interested in that and discussing it a good bit with some people I think are no longer around back in like, 200502:46
psusithen I wondered off and got sucked into an MMO for a few years...02:46
slangasekcnd: hmm?  I hope no one finds it vengeful :)02:47
brycehohsix, for -synaptics if you have tested the patch and verified it works, and gotten a thumb's up from cnd, I can take it the rest of the way in for you if you'd like02:47
brycehohsix, just need the bug # and patch02:47
ohsixbryceh: that would be great02:47
cndbryceh, I'd like to take one last review of that block of code02:47
psusiI didn't think it was really even very desirable anymore... haven't all of the issues been worked out?  64 bit flash support and such?02:48
ohsixthe bug isn't exactly apropos, it was about asking for ui to change it, not disable it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/73991602:48
ubottuUbuntu bug 739916 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-mouse-properties doesn't offer touchpad options for 2 finger clicks" [Undecided,New]02:48
ohsixi could add a comment about the ui not being able to be changed, and the patch to disable it if it's needed02:48
cndohsix, I think we should open a different bug then02:48
slangasekpsusi: there are lots of little reasons to want multiarch, flash is just one of them02:48
slangasek(and no, I wouldn't say 64-bit flash has been "worked out")02:49
ohsixcnd: the reason i filed that way is i can't think of a good way to file the other bug, spurious right click events? i know too much! :D02:49
* psusi pours gasoline on flash and lights it on fire, then does the same for pdf02:50
rezbitflash... argh02:50
ohsixi'll file another02:50
brycehcnd, ok02:50
brycehohsix, cnd, agreed that a new bug for this specific issue would be best; ohsix would you mind filing one?02:50
ohsixshould i put like, caused by git commit hash, or just propose the patch02:50
cndohsix, it would be a good idea to reference the git commit02:51
cndbut attaching the patch would also help02:51
cndsince you've got it handy02:51
* lamont wonders why cups is asking for a root password when shadow has root:!:...02:51
ohsixdoes lp detect comments made as patches as patches, or do i need to attach a file02:51
psusiwait, what about the libraries needs "transitioned" to multiarch?  I thought the whole point was to take an unmodified i386 package and install it on amd64, moving things to the correct 32bit directories in the process?02:52
psusiohsix, attach file02:52
cndohsix, when you make the new bug report, subscribe me to it02:52
cndand thanks for testing the change out :)02:53
slangasekpsusi: no, the point of multiarch is to fix the packages so that there's no "moving" things upon installation, since that breaks compile-time path references02:55
ohsixall done https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/74221302:56
ubottuUbuntu bug 742213 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "spurious right click events" [Undecided,New]02:56
psusislangasek, what do you mean?  I thought the main problem was dynamic linking.. and the 32 bit dynamic linker looks in /lib32 instead of /lib or /lib64, and when installing an i386 package, anything that says /lib got redirected to /lib32?02:56
slangasekno, the *main* problem is the many libraries that load plugins from a predetermined path02:57
rezbitbryceh: I The fact that this bug is two years leads me to speculate that it's triggered by SSP and silently corrupts information otherwise. Maybe I am jumping to conclusions?02:57
rezbitoops. well he's not back from the netsplit yet.02:57
psusiohh... isn't that a big no-no to begin with?  it's supposed to let ldconfig resolve paths02:57
slangasekpsusi: not in the least.  ldconfig is for resolving library paths, it doesn't help for plugins02:58
slangaseknot when you want them in per-application directories02:58
psusiplugins are libraries02:58
slangasekno, they aren't02:58
slangasekthey're dynamic shared objects02:58
psusidso = library by another name?02:58
slangaseka library is a specific kind of dynamic shared object - one with an soname, that you link against02:59
slangasekpsusi: e.g., how would you propose libpam manage to use ld.so to look up the modules in /lib/security?02:59
psusislangasek, readdir() or a config file and then ldopen()?03:01
slangasekld.so doesn't implement either of those things for you03:01
slangasekand where do you put the config file so that it's unique on a per-architecture basis?03:01
psusiby the time Linux started really adopting shared libs, I had already gotten used to dlls on windows, so my understanding of shared libs quite likely makes some assumptions that things are the same as a dll when they aren't03:01
slangasekyou've just moved the pieces around, you haven't solved the problem of conflicting paths built into the binaries03:01
psusislangasek, I see... so the config file says load foo.so, which is assumed to be in /some/path, and so it calls ldopen() on that path, which bypasses ldconfig?  ldconfig is only used for libraries that were linked at compile time?03:03
slangasekdlopen() can resolve relative paths for you by searching the system path, and the system path can vary by architecture, but almost no upstreams do it that way in practice03:05
psusislangasek, so basically, plugins need to be loaded from /lib32 or /lib64 explicitly, rather than /lib?03:05
psusithough I thought dlopen() was going to be patched to automatically rewrite /lib to the appropriate one03:05
slangaseker, I don't know who proposed doing /that/, but it wasn't me :)03:06
psusiiirc, the idea was that since a different ld.so is run by the kernel depending on if the executable is 32bit or 64bit, it would know whether references to /lib ( or /usr/lib, etc ) should really be 32 or 6403:07
slangasekI understand the idea, but that's not what's been agreed and implemented03:08
psusiohh... why is that?03:08
RAOFIt would seem pretty magical.03:09
slangasekfor one thing, having ld.so doing magic to rewrite paths out from under you is horribly ugly03:09
slangasekfor another, there are other kinds of architecture-dependent files besides DSOs at issue03:09
rezbitbryceh: Nevermind, this is fixed in maverick release. The fact that this bug is two years with no issues on gentoo leads me to speculate that it's triggered by SSP and silently corrupts information otherwise. Thanks for your help anyway.03:14
rezbittwo years old*03:15
StevenKRAOF: Did you end up looking at Quod Libet?03:51
RAOFOh!  *That's* why I've got the software centre open!03:51
RAOF(You may take that as a “not yet”)03:51
ohsixyou know the quod libet guy can't ride a bike or swim03:54
StevenKWhat does the have to do with the price of fish?03:54
ohsixand started the ill fated dx11 on xp project :D03:54
ohsixit's a fun anecdote :D03:54
ohsixhe worked for linspire & theres a video floating around of him trying to ride a bike03:54
RAOFYou know, mesa could probably provide dx11 on XP reasonably easily.03:54
ohsixit's not just adapting the rendering api though; there are places where it leaks into windows implimentation03:55
RAOFHands up all those who can't right click on anything in the launcher without compiz crashing! o/03:56
ohsixit was only a sideshow until he started charging people to get releases that didn't do anything D:03:57
RAOFWell, there's a dx11 state tracker in mesa at least.03:57
RAOFThe nux crash in GrabPointer has been fixed… and replaced by a crash in GrabKeyboard!03:59
ohsixdrag & drop on the panel is also broken, though how; i have no idea03:59
StevenKRAOF: Does that mean it's installed now? :-)03:59
RAOFStevenK: Indeed it is.04:00
robbiewRAOF: apologies for have the old kernel....REALLY weird...apt-get dist-upgrade won't budge on it04:00
RAOFrobbiew: The other logs attached to that bug suggest that you've actually *got* the 2.6.38-7-generic kernel installed, you're just not using it.04:00
robbiewyeah...but I don't04:01
robbiewI checked04:01
robbiewsystem is confused04:01
RAOFYou've got nvidia-current built against it, though :)04:01
StevenKrobbiew: You have the headers, but not the kernel itself?04:01
* StevenK wins.04:02
robbiewbut how the hell did I get the headers only04:02
ohsixnot having the virtual that pulls them all in?04:02
StevenKrobbiew: /var/log/dpkg.log might help tell you.04:02
RAOFStevenK: Booo.  Quod Libet doesn't mpris it up.  That said, it's got a simple dbus interface, so it'd be the work of ½ an hour to whip a plugin up.04:04
StevenKRAOF: I can't see a mpris plugin for Quod, either.04:06
StevenKRAOF: Pity I don't know C# :-)04:07
RAOFYou could try an IronPython plugin :)04:07
RAOFOr IronRuby.  How about F#? :)04:07
* StevenK books a flight so he can stand over RAOF until he writes it. :-P04:08
StevenKRAOF: http://code.google.com/p/quodlibet/source/browse/plugins/events/mpris.py?spec=svn06b6519551f11dc084e7465cde47b8e520837c74&r=06b6519551f11dc084e7465cde47b8e520837c7404:16
RAOFStevenK: Ah, sweet.  I'll just go and write an mpris-control plugin then.04:18
StevenKRAOF: Is that even easier?04:18
RAOFNo, but it'll work for more players.04:18
RAOFIt's almost exactly as easy, but more general.04:19
NCommander@pilot on05:08
udevbot(pilot (in|out)) -- Set yourself an in or out of patch pilot.05:08
NCommander@pilot in05:08
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: beta freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper -> maverick | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Current Friendly Patch Pilots: NCommander, smoser
NCommanderevening all05:12
=== _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero
=== Claudinux_ is now known as Claudinux
phsihmm, newest pulse in natty has pulseaudio-module-raop as hard dependency06:46
phsiwhich in turn depends on zeroconf06:46
phsiand this then brings in all the avahi shit06:46
phsiis this getting fixed?06:46
RAOFIs there a bug filed?  I'm not sure if there's some reason why -raop can't be Recommended rather than Depended on.   Also:06:48
RAOF!ohmy > phsi06:48
ubottuphsi, please see my private message06:48
pittiGood morning07:05
nigelbGuten Morgen pitti :)07:06
bryceh!ohmy > bryceh07:23
ubottubryceh, please see my private message07:23
micahg!msgthebot > bryceh07:23
brycehmicahg, what you don't like me playing with my bots in public?  ;-)07:24
cdbsmicahg: It creates unnecessary backlog07:24
cdbsbryceh: ^07:24
micahgas does this whole conversation ;)07:24
cdbsbryceh: When you can !msgthebot its better, and cleaner07:24
dholbachgood morning07:40
didrocksgood morning08:29
mvokklimonda: hi, I just looked at your pangomm (and friends) branches, thanks for them! it appears Murray has a new tarball without the need for mm-common08:33
=== khrm_ is now known as khrm
kklimondamvo: does it really matter? mm-common already got a MIR, so I've assumed it's only a matter of uploading packages that depend on it to pull it to main? I've not yet read email, so I may be missing something :)09:25
mvokklimonda: it does not much matter, no :)09:26
=== diwic is now known as diwic_afk
pittitseliot: oh, so can we remove displaydepth for 96 and 173 as well? that would indeed make xorg.conf a lot simpler10:27
tseliotpitti: I'm not sure as to whether that option is automatically applied if a xorg.conf exists. Sarvatt should know more about this10:28
pittitseliot: ok, thanks; it at least was confirmed that it works for -current10:29
NCommander@pilot out10:41
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: beta freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper -> maverick | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Current Friendly Patch Pilots: smoser
sorenHow is component-mismatches generated?10:48
sorenI'm trying to generate a list of packages that would need an MIR if a particular package were to be seeded. I'm not sure if the tool that generates component-mismatches might be of use.10:50
sorenSo far I'm using germinate, but by default it only looks at main, and just refuses to add packages that have dependencies in universe, so there must be something else that can help me out.10:52
sorenHmm... Or perhaps it's refusing to add the package because it itself is in universe, but it seems to me the result is the same.10:53
sorencjwatson: Perhaps I could borrow your brain for a couple of minutes? Pretty please? :)11:00
cjwatsonsoren: you can tell germinate which components to look at - it's a command-line option11:03
cjwatsonso you run germinate against all components, and then compare against what's currently in main11:03
cjwatsonthe rest is basically bookkeeping11:03
sorencjwatson: Indeed.11:03
sorencjwatson: How does component-mismatches do it?11:04
sorensurely not like this?11:04
cjwatsonwhy not?11:04
sorenDoes it?11:04
cjwatson(actually, Launchpad has already run germinate for it; it just uses the output.)11:04
sorenBut for germinate to consider stuff in universe at all.. Err..11:05
cjwatsonit's perfectly reasonable if you're asking conditional questions11:05
sorenDoes Launchpad run germinage with universe "enabled"?11:05
sorenOh, ok.11:05
soren..and then component-mismatches compares with Packages (and Sources, I suppose)?11:06
cjwatsonhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/view/head:/cronscripts/publishing/cron.germinate <- how LP runs germinate11:07
cjwatsonI'll mail you the dire hacky scripts that do c-m11:08
cjwatsonI doubt they'll be runnable directly out of context11:08
sorencjwatson: Thanks very much.11:09
StevenKWhen I do MIR work to see what needs to be promoted, I do it all by hand. :-/11:09
sorencjwatson: I tried to find that cron thing, but I don't have an lp checkout handy and I'm working out of a coffee shop today.. Checking out lp would take days :)11:09
sorenStevenK: That's very useful info. Thanks.11:10
cjwatsonit's not in LP11:10
cjwatsonwell, cron.germinate is, the other bits aren't11:10
soren~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel looks very..11:10
sorenAh, right.11:10
StevenKAnd yes, that's LP main trunk.11:10
sorenExactly, hence my confusion about "it's not in LP" :)11:11
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
mdeslaur@pilot in11:55
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: beta freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper -> maverick | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Current Friendly Patch Pilots: mdeslaur, smoser
* dholbach hugs mdeslaur11:57
dholbachsmoser, you might want to unpilot yourself :)11:57
MadRobotHi all.11:58
MadRobotMay make a small suggestion?11:58
* mdeslaur hugs dholbach 11:59
MadRobotWhy don't you replace the default media player "Mplayer" with another one such as VLC?11:59
directhexmplayer isn't the default media player.12:00
MadRobotdirecthex, what is?12:00
MadRobotI see.12:00
MadRobotlol, I thought they were the same thing. :P12:01
directhexvlc plays more or less anything. which is good. but there are two downsides.12:01
directhexfirst, it's not possible to split vlc's codec support up. totem uses the gstreamer framework to install codecs on demand. this is important from a legal standpoint, since the mp3 patent holders demand a license fee for preinstalled mp3 players - and other codecs may suffer similar issues. codecs are a patent minefield, and gstreamer makes it easier to ship only a subset by default12:02
directhexsecondly, it's a usability disaster. although i wish totem were more configurable, vlc goes waaaaaay too far12:03
MadRobotdirecthex, I see.12:03
=== herton_ is now known as herton
directhexMadRobot, i don't think anyone's opposed to a better media file player if one comes along, but i don't think vlc is a possible move12:04
MadRobotAnyways, I guess you're right. Totem can stick around, and if I'm not  comfortable with it, I can simply use something else. :)12:04
MadRobotdirecthex, I agree.12:04
MadRobotOr, there's another option, that Totem receives some more polishing and improvements.12:05
directhexyes, that's a good option12:06
MadRobotThe fellows at the Totem project need to put some more effort at making Totem a little less buggy, imho. -_-12:07
directhexMadRobot, if you have specific issues, you should file bugs about them12:08
MadRobotdirecthex, yeah, but the problem is that I'm not sure how to write and document these bugs.12:09
MadRobotThey have to do with it12:09
MadRobotstreaming .avi videos.12:09
MadRobotIt some times slows down, or even crashes.12:10
mdeslaurpitti: what's your opinion on the patch in #711549?12:19
pittimdeslaur: ah, I think I saw these fly by12:29
pittimdeslaur: back then I thought kay wanted to use the in-kernel polling (which is really the right way to fix this)12:29
mdeslaurpitti: yes, but meanwhile it's a big user-visible bug12:30
mdeslaurpitti: (and one of my personal pet-peeves for the past couple of releases...)12:30
pittimdeslaur: yeah, I guess we need to revisit applying it until the in-kernel stuff gets used12:31
mdeslaurpitti: should I ask for a freeze exception and push it to natty?12:32
pittimdeslaur: I don't think it's urgent enough to squeeze into beta-112:32
pittimdeslaur: I'd really like to avoid distro-patching; I'd prefer pushing it upstream and then applying in Debian and syncing12:33
pittiwe've been through this in hal12:33
mdeslaurpitti: ok, I'll leave it be. thanks12:33
pittimdeslaur: so feel free to discuss with kay or davidz in #udev, otherwise I'll add it to my queue12:33
ari-tczewwgrant: are you going to upload a fix for loggerhead for natty?12:34
pittimdeslaur: the spirit of the patch seems fine, but the implementation should be improved IMHO12:35
pittimdeslaur: e. g. udisks already knows whether a device is mounted, no need to parse /proc/mounts etc.12:36
mdeslaurpitti: ah, ok....I'll let you handle the bug then since you're familiar with udisks12:37
pittimdeslaur: I'll keep the tab open; doing HR stuff and release meeting today, but something nice to hack on next week12:37
mdeslaurpitti: cool, thanks12:39
hallynjbernard: so, to do a libcgroup sync request we first need the fix in debian unstable, right?12:39
mdeslaurpatch piloting during freeze isn't very productive :)12:39
pittimdeslaur: yeah :(12:39
wgrantari-tczew: We'll sync it from Debian in a day or two.12:39
pittimdeslaur: well, universe isn't frozen12:39
ari-tczewpitti: but new features needs FFe right?12:40
ari-tczewwgrant: so can I unsubscribe sponsors from bug?12:41
wgrantari-tczew: Indeed.12:41
hallynis there a workaround for using apport-collect to an existing bug from a console (which fails due ot no launchpad login)?12:42
hallynor, if it failed at that stage, is the data cached somewhere so the user can later log in and manually post the files collected by apport?12:43
pittiari-tczew: right12:45
jdstranddidrocks: hey, would you mind milestoning bug #741942 (the one I reported yesterday)?12:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 741942 in nux (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGABRT in raise()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74194212:51
didrocksjdstrand: hum, seems launchpad timeouted, I milestoned it already as well send it in the priority list for dx12:52
didrocksjdstrand: done :)12:52
jdstranddidrocks: thanks! :)12:53
didrocksjdstrand: you can thank me and dx once it's fixed ;-)12:53
jdstranddidrocks: you can bet I will. I miss my unity :)12:53
didrocksheh ;)12:53
didrocksjdstrand: if we get some fixes that can't go into beta, I'll maybe setup a backported version in a ppa so that you can test it12:54
jdstranddidrocks: I'd be happy to12:54
mterryHeyo, general announcement: I'm considering applying for core-dev and would appreciate comments/endorsements if anybody has any https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mterry/CoreDev13:08
smoser@pilot out13:12
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: beta freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper -> maverick | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Current Friendly Patch Pilots: mdeslaur
cjwatsonjibel: can you confirm whether the Asus U3SG system you had where Plymouth failed to cope with the framebuffer switch (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Grub2BootFramebuffer/Whiteboard) is now working more smoothly?  I believe that it should, now that we don't do the vesafb->KMS dance any longer13:13
jibelcjwatson, I haven't rebooted it for quite some time. I'm trying that right now, brb13:15
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
jibel_cjwatson, not back as fast as I expected, but well I'm here.13:26
jibel_cjwatson, first there is something strange, the grub background is a debian background13:27
jibel_cjwatson, then the screen becomes black for 4s, then ubuntu log + dots, then quick flicker and the logo is back but the dots are not blinking anymore and finally it switch to X13:28
cjwatsonjibel_: you probably have desktop-base installed13:30
=== sconklin-gone is now known as sconklin
cjwatsonjibel_: the rest of it sounds largely as expected for the moment - thanks!13:31
jibel_cjwatson, okay, desktop-base is installed because of the dependencies: gnome-accessibility -> gnome-core -> desktop-base13:35
kirklanddoes anyone here have a thinkpad x201 working with a docking station and external video in Natty?13:36
kirklandbryceh: ^13:37
cjwatsonjibel_: that issue is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Grub2BootFramebuffer/Whiteboard though13:38
cjwatsonit's the last one that has known specifics13:38
=== apachelogger is now known as releaselogger
=== khrm_ is now known as khrm
ari-tczewvish, cdbs: I'm looking on amule package and it seems to be fine for me for sync. However, there is your delta to fix description in d/control. Debian didn't accept it. What's next?14:06
ari-tczewmvo: what do you think, should do we keep delta in Ubuntu for improve description? bug 60271714:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 602717 in amule (Ubuntu) "Description: aMule" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60271714:10
jbernardhallyn: yep, im working on a new upstream release now14:11
hallynjbernard: awesome, thx14:11
jbernardhallyn: i should have some time this weekend to finish it up14:11
cdbsari-tczew: Merge then14:13
ari-tczewcdbs: my question is whether it's really necessary to store in ubuntu14:15
zulpitti: i just uploaded landscape-client for maverick-proposed can you reject it please?14:16
mvoari-tczew: ideally we would have a overwrite mechanism via LP, but that is not done yet14:17
pittizul: not in the queue yet14:17
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
zulpitti: ok nm then14:18
zulpitti: just a preemptive strike but its not needed14:18
pittizul: how so?14:18
zulpitti: it got rejected before it hit the queue thanks anyways14:18
cdbsari-tczew: It very much is14:19
pittizul: ah, heh :)14:20
cdbsari-tczew: We have sometimes diverged from Debian just for that14:20
cdbsari-tczew: Its an Ubuntu effort. If debian rejects, we keep the delta14:20
ari-tczewmvo: ok but what's your decision - keep it and merge or drop it and sync?14:20
pittijdstrand, kees: releasing the missing linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15 for dapper; not sure whether that needs an USN?14:21
ScottKcdbs: Not always.  You have to ask if it's worth the effort of merging all the time to keep the benefit of the change.14:21
ScottKFor small edits in the package description my answer is usually no.14:22
ari-tczew+1 ^^14:23
vishScottK: then what is the use of actually fixing issues, if we are going to revert them later?14:23
cdbsScottK: Well, I heard jcastro did ask the DDs about it, who had a mixed opinion on the description changes. So we decided to keep it when we can14:23
mvoari-tczew: I look after the call14:23
vishwe could just as well say we dont want to fix such bugs in Ubuntu14:23
cdbs+1 ^14:23
cdbsari-tczew, ScottK: We are building up a system aimed at newcomers, not geeks14:24
cdbsari-tczew, ScottK: Let me give you an example:14:24
jdstrandpitti: ack. I'll review it, thanks14:25
cjwatsonwe also have finite resources which should be spent carefully14:25
cjwatson(not that I feel strongly one way or the other in this case, but it's not true that one consideration uniformly outweighs the other)14:25
cdbsPackage frozen-bubble had a description containing information about some rumour which blamed the package frozen-bubble responsible for the delay of Debian Woody release14:25
cdbsari-tczew, ScottK: Such a description won't be relevant for display in something like software center14:26
* ari-tczew is off for lunch. afk.14:26
ScottKI'm not saying there aren't cases where maintaining such a diff is inappropriate, I'm just saying usually not.14:26
pittiScottK +114:27
vishcjwatson: ACK, but we need to be clear with what we want to do. We are requesting people to file bugs, then we have people reviewing those bugs and later we have people actually writing a new description for those packages and finally someone fixes it … why all this work when we are going to revert later?14:27
pittiand less so for a rather harmless joke like in f-b IMHO14:27
pittivish: IMHO the correct course of action for this is to forward the patches to the Debian BTS, and declare it done on our end14:28
cjwatsonvish: this just means that it's also worth spending effort in persuading people upstream of us to accept the change14:28
pitti(if that would be the only delta we have)14:28
cjwatsonrather than considering the job done when it's in Ubuntu14:28
vishpitti: we do forward,, but debian rejected.. saying it is not an issue14:28
vishfor them*14:28
cjwatsonand that will happen occasionally, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth trying to minimise our delta in general14:28
cdbsBecause Debian has its own guiding principles which clash with ours at times14:28
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
cjwatsonit's just the same for code changes - occasionally we have to decide whether keeping a delta is worth it, and sometimes the answer is yes and sometimes no14:29
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
cdbsWell, I fixed the bug. At a time when I wasn't MOTU. At that time even a small upload in my name made a huge difference.14:29
Sarvatthello libx11 klingon.. :P14:29
pittiSarvatt: nuQneH?14:29
* cdbs g2g14:30
=== herton is now known as herton_lunch
Sarvattthat's one delta we'll carry forever because noone wants it :)14:31
* vish just a middleman stuck between the design team and MOTU :D14:31
cjwatsonmvo: are you ready to upload that sudo change?14:34
cjwatsonmvo: oh, never mind, I see it in the queue14:34
mvocjwatson: its uploaded, waiting for review14:34
* cjwatson reviews and accepts14:36
cjwatsonmterry,TheMuso: any further progress on deciding on bug 730759?14:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 730759 in dbus-c++ (Ubuntu Natty) "[MIR] b-d for libffado" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73075914:40
mterryTheMuso, cjwatson: putting dbus-c++ back in libffado is sort of sleight of hand.  It's still arguably unmaintained code.  But it does highlight the fact that we've had this chunk of unmaintained code already in main...  I remember that the Debian folks wanted it to remain a separate lib14:43
cjwatsonyeah, I don't see shoving it back into libffado as being a particular improvement14:44
mterryTheMuso, so I'm not clear on the end result of the offer to co-maintain it?14:44
cjwatsonI don't know much about it, I'm just conscious of its continued presence on c-m14:44
superm1mtaylor, it's a bit unclear to me why this MIR needs to happen though; ubuntu studio can build from universe, no?14:48
mterrysuperm1, was that to me?14:51
superm1you were the one approving the MIR on libffado right?14:51
mterrysuperm1, sure, you just asked mtaylor is all14:51
superm1oh yeah, oops, tab completion :)14:51
mterrysuperm1, I don't know about studio building from universe.  I thought it didn't.  I guess the question is who rdepends on libffado14:52
superm1well originally it was a set of packages common to ubuntu studio and mythbuntu; jack14:53
superm1mythbuntu dropped all the jack depends to get out of this mess14:53
superm1clearly mythbuntu can build from universe/multiverse, so i had *thought* ubuntu studio could too14:53
holsteinim noticing some ubuntustudio talk14:54
* holstein reading scrollback14:54
mterrysuperm1, what's the rule for that?  I assume officially supported flavors must build from main only, others whatever?14:54
cjwatsonsuperm1: libffado is in main because jack uses it14:54
mterrycjwatson, sure, but question was then why is jack in main?14:54
cjwatsonits (build-)dependencies need to be in main, regardless of what mythbuntu/studio use14:54
holsteinand having it in main means as an end user, we can have JACK support out of the box14:54
cjwatsonpulseaudio and a bunch of other things build-dep on jack14:55
holsteinin most aps14:55
cjwatsonalsa-plugins, gst-plugins-good0.10, portaudio19, xine-lib14:55
cjwatsonso it has to be in main for those14:55
superm1ok that's clearer to me14:55
cjwatsonbarry: are the recent comments on bug 711225 enlightening?  Martin seems to need interpreter help at this point14:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 711225 in python2.7 (Ubuntu Natty) "subprocess.Popen() crashed with TypeError in _cleanup(): an integer is required" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71122514:56
cjwatsonbarry: also, can you update me briefly on the state of bug 724327?14:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 724327 in python-launchpadlib (Ubuntu) "lp-shell crashed with ImportError in _ensure_keyring_imported(): No module named keyring" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72432714:56
cjwatsonISTR some MIR activity there ...14:57
barrycjwatson: looking...14:58
cjwatsonhmm, python-launchpadlib seems to depend on python-keyring now14:58
ari-tczewpitti, cjwatson: so do you confirm that we can drop this one change in description?14:58
barrycjwatson: yes, i think that's been so for several weeks now14:58
cjwatsonah, dup bug - I'll close that14:58
pittiari-tczew: for frozen-bubble? sure15:00
ari-tczewpitti: no, for amule - discussion with vish and cdbs15:00
ari-tczewfrom other hand they see a problem in workflow in Ubuntu - community give patches which will be dropped in future15:01
ari-tczewbut that's the system - if Debian rejects patch, we're dropping it15:01
barrycjwatson: re: bug 711225.  no, the comments just add to the confusion. ;)  but pitti provided a way to reproduce it so i'll investigate that today.15:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 711225 in python2.7 (Ubuntu Natty) "subprocess.Popen() crashed with TypeError in _cleanup(): an integer is required" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71122515:02
vishari-tczew:  then why even have a system that supports uploading a patch in Launchpad :)15:02
ari-tczewvish: uploading? do you mean attaching to bug?15:02
vishi like Kubuntu workflow, they are clear where the bug and issues need to be fixed15:03
vishthis is like flip-flopping, if some MOTU later doesnt have time to merge, we will drop your earlier effort15:03
vishari-tczew: yea, i meant attaching …15:04
pittibarry: I really can't make head and tail of that one :/ I started at the python code for quite some time, but I don't see anything wrong with it15:04
ari-tczewvish: I think the best way to resolve this issue (in general, not in this case) is send an e-mail to TB.15:05
vishprobably.. but I'm not sure this is such a huge issue to poke TB15:06
barrypitti: indeed, the description is pretty confusing!  i'll probably need to gdb the python process to dig deeper.  sounds like a fun one for a friday :)15:06
vishari-tczew: what happens if we dont sync/merge?15:06
cjwatsonbarry: thanks15:07
barrycjwatson: should i assign it to myself?15:07
cjwatsonbarry: if you could, please15:07
ari-tczewvish: then we won't get news in amule in Debian15:07
cjwatsonvish: as I say, this underlines that the job is not done when the patch is in Ubuntu - there is still care and feeding involved as long as there's a delta, and I think some of that should be on the shoulders of the people who incorporated the patch into Ubuntu15:07
vishright, then we could wait for cdbs to do a merge15:08
tumbleweedvish: (sorry haven't been following this from the start, but here goes) why not push these to Debian as soon as possible? I don't want to create a delta in ubuntu for just a description change, I'd rather push it to Debian first15:08
ari-tczewtumbleweed: Debian has rejected patch15:08
vishtumbleweed: Debian rejected the patch15:08
tumbleweedari-tczew: aah15:08
pittibarry: may the source be with you! yes, it looks like a "fun" one..15:08
tumbleweedI guess if we really want it we have to do the work then15:09
barrypitti: hopefully it will result in a blog post a little less fascinating and frightening as cjwatson's on the wubi bug :)15:09
vishIMO, if no one has the time to merge, let's just not have the new package, if someone feels strongly about having the new package, they could do the merge15:09
tumbleweedgenerally we try to encourage the person who made the change to do future merging15:10
vishyea, thats why i mentioned, we could just wait for cdbs to get to a merge15:10
ari-tczewvish: look, when you want to keep this small change you have to spend a time on merging package every time when Debian has released new reiviosn15:10
ari-tczewthere is a question whether the time which has spent on merging is worth?15:11
ari-tczewbecause it won't be one time on merging15:11
ari-tczewevery time15:11
cjwatsonvish: Ubuntu policy is to merge globally; while there are exceptions where it's hard, any case where we aren't keeping up to date is a problem15:11
vishari-tczew: why not wait for cdbs ? has cdbs refused to merge? he is a MOTU too15:11
Riddelljdstrand: I think it's your archive admin day, bug 742377 has an upload in hardy-backports -Q unapproved15:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 742377 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu Karmic) "blacklist fake Comodo SSL certificates" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74237715:12
cjwatson(that said, we are in feature freeze.  there should be no reason to worry about merging now - the merge push is in the first part of the release cycle)15:12
vishif the previous uploader doesnt care about his effort, then dropping seems reasonable. but why just not let the MOTU do his work15:12
tumbleweedvish: I think this is being morphed into a more general question: is keeping a patch like that worth the effort for the MOTUs in general15:12
vishtumbleweed: yup. :)15:12
jdstrandRiddell: ok, thanks15:12
ari-tczewfor me it's not worth15:13
ari-tczewand cjwatson has got a good point, ATM merge is not really needed15:13
ari-tczewhowever, they added some small fixes15:13
ari-tczewvish: feel free to merge it, this is your time15:15
ari-tczewpersonally I wouldn't spend time on that small change15:15
vishari-tczew: previous uploader is cdbs :) , I'm not MOTU, lets just wait for him15:16
ari-tczewvish: no, it's not cdbs15:16
ari-tczewit's shankhao and tumbleweed has sponsored this one15:16
vishoh well, this is my opinion:  "<vish> IMO, if no one has the time to merge, let's just not have the new package, if someone feels strongly about having the new package, they could do the merge."  I'm not a MOTU, so i dont really have much say in this do I? ;p15:18
cjwatsonI'm afraid standing policy is otherwise15:18
cjwatsonI mean, obviously it's reality that somebody has to have the time to deal with it, but the policy of the development community as a whole is that somebody should make time. :-)15:19
cjwatson(either for a merge or a sync, one way or the other)15:19
tumbleweedvish: you do. All that's needed here is a sponsor. You can request a sync or a merge and if the sponsor agrees that it looks like a good idea, it'll happen15:19
=== khrm_ is now known as khrm
vishtumbleweed: it would be like me chasing my tail, next cycle again this same question will arise..15:20
vishhowever, I'm all for cloning mvo , if we have more of him we might have less of this problem ;)15:20
tumbleweedhah. indeed, which is why syncing might not be a bad idea (I don't know what package this is, so I haven't looked at the change)15:21
ari-tczewright, we still don't have mvo's feedbach. the change is related to be useful for software center.15:22
ari-tczewtumbleweed: amule15:22
vishari-tczew: there is a roadmap to allow user-generated descriptions, but mvo is stretched too thin :)15:23
vish*LP roadmap15:23
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
tumbleweedaah. It doesn't look like a particularly important description change, I'd have no objection to reverting it. Not all patches are accepted upstream, sometimes we need to throw away work15:24
mvoari-tczew, vish, tumbleweed: sorry, was distracted. I think ideally we add a additional layer so that we can have chnages to the presentation (desktop file or even package description) without the need to touch the package itself. but we are not there yet. in the meantime I think we need to decide case-by-case15:25
mvoif its not a terrible important changes, we can throw it away, but it slightly worries me that a simple merge like this is difficult to find people for :/15:25
ari-tczewmvo: probably vish and cdbs love to merge it15:26
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=== deryck is now known as deryck[lunch]
mvoI'm happy to sponsor a merge (if that helps)15:28
ari-tczewvish: btw. I don't agree with you that this case is too small to be discussed by TB. I was a witness in case when one small patch was discussed by TB. (w3m or something IIRC)15:29
vishyea, maybe, I think I was just being frightened of "talking to the TB" .. :)15:30
cjwatsonI don't think any of this should involve talking to the TB15:32
=== herton_lunch is now known as herton
vishi still believe, that if someone feels they definitely want to get the new version into Ubuntu, they could try to make some extra effort and do the merge. right now this discussion seems more like my time is more precious than the previous person's,  so I'm just going to drop it.15:48
vish(this is cause an upload that has already been done)15:48
vishif we dont want to have such changes, we should not even upload such patches15:50
seb128the issue is that having to merge a package rather than to sync means extra efforts are required and that the package tends to stay behind in versions and bug fixes because often there is no enough manpower to keep up with debian updates15:52
seb128where sync are just flowing in15:52
seb128well at least during the first part of the cycle15:52
seb128it's ok for one source15:52
seb128but if you start updating random source for description update that will be an issue15:53
vishseb128: ACK, then we should just not allow any such patches in Ubuntu15:53
vishwe should be like Kubuntu15:53
vishthey are very clear, they just close the bugs in LP if it is not their issue15:53
seb128we had this discussion before but you and design said we should take it at least for some popular packages15:54
seb128which seems a fine tradeoff for a few source15:54
Laneydidn't we agree to try to start (revive? was there one before?) a Debian initiative for descriptions?15:55
vish i think we might have only a handful 10-20 max packages with such description changes.. which does not seem to huge15:56
vishLaney: we did, and the person incharge of starting the discussion retired from Ubuntu, :(15:56
LaneySomeone else who cares about the project could do it instead. :-)15:56
vishyea, i know! ;p15:57
Laneybtw, I imagine it would carry more weight were Debian to have the software centre too (so maintainers can see their descriptions being presented up front)15:57
seb128the descriptions are also in update-manager etc15:58
seb128not discussing having it in debian but fixing description is not only useful for it15:58
LaneyI just mean that they aren't so prominent in Debian so it could be hard to convince maintainers of the need for a campaign15:59
mdeslaur@pilot out15:59
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: beta freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper -> maverick | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Current Friendly Patch Pilots:
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
cjwatsondoko_,ScottK: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ certainly shows several not-current failures16:07
cjwatsone.g. randomly https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/collectd/4.10.1-2.1/+buildjob/210183716:07
ubottuUbuntu bug 4 in Launchpad itself "Importing finished po doesn't change progressbar" [Medium,Fix released]16:07
ScottKI found some that failed on 3/8.16:07
ScottKCertainly not "this week".16:07
doko_hmm, lamont ^^^16:08
cjwatsonI was going to craft an LP-API-based mass-give-back script if lamont didn't already have one ...16:09
cjwatsonit's irritatingly not quite as easy as it ought to be16:09
ScottK"Ask lamont to do it" is hard?16:12
cjwatsonlamont is great, but I'd like us to be able to do it independently16:14
ScottKI told lamont recently his mantra ought to be "lamont doesn't scale".16:15
lamontScottK: I totally do not scale16:18
lamont<lamont> cjwatson: the buildds get disabled because the packages they're being asked to build so massively overtax the buildd that either (1) it falls over dead, or (2) launchpad decides it has, even though it hasn't.  in either case, launchpad then moves the build onto the next buildd and we knock that one over in turn16:18
lamont<lamont> and since gcc, gcj, openjdk, and such are (1) examples, (2) needs-build/building, and(3) in main, it really really sucks to be a universe package16:18
lamontbah.  just to make sure it's in an actually-relevant channel16:18
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cjwatsonhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/585462/ is (a) horrible (b) wrong and (c) running16:21
cjwatson(and I'll be unimpressed if people run that casually without agreement and DoS the builders ...)16:22
pitticjwatson: OOI, what's wrong about it?16:23
pitti(aside from the DoSing part)16:23
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cjwatsonit has to iterate over lots of old builds because I couldn't see an interface which returns only the current ones16:23
cjwatsonso it's harder on LP than it ought to be16:24
pittiI though that was the (a) horrible part16:24
cjwatson(d) hyperbole16:25
nigelbkirkland: ping16:25
kirklandnigelb: on the phone for the next 35 minutes16:25
kirklandnigelb: ping me after that16:25
nigelbkirkland: sure, thanks :)16:25
cjwatsonOK.  Mass give-back done.16:28
cjwatson78 packages retried16:29
cjwatson(fewer than I expected, but looks right-ish from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/)16:29
cjwatsonbuilders say the queue time is 23m (amd64), 10h (armel), 2h20m (i386), 14h (powerpc), which looks pretty tolerable16:30
=== deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck
jcastromvo: would you recommend people using the deb mirror line in sources.list if behind a squid-deb-proxy? I imagine the download URL changing each time wouldn't cache?16:54
tgardnerslangasek, how does one deal with conf files when upgrading to the next release if the options in the conf file are no longer correct (or just plain wrong). For example, module-init-tools-3.12/debian/modprobe.d/intel-5300-iwlagn-disable11n.conf17:07
tgardnerjust release note it?17:07
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mvojcastro: yeah, its not necessarly a good idea behind squid-deb-proxy, I will investigate if there can be done anything to teach squid that certain curls are mirrors and actually the same resource17:16
mvojcastro: but I have n oclue if that is possible or not17:16
bdrungdoko_: i fixed lintian \o/17:18
pitticjwatson: nice, the rebuilds are already by and large done17:21
psusicjwatson: since beta freeze went into affect, does that mean my dmraid/parted fixes missed the window, or do you think you can still merge them?17:22
=== bjf[afk] is now known as bjf
slangasektgardner: there's 'dpkg-maintscript-helper', a tool that you can use in the next version of the package to cleanly handle removal of the conffile on upgrade17:24
slangasektgardner: dpkg-maintscript-helper rm_conffile /etc/modprobe.d/intel-5300-iwlagn-disable11n.conf module-init-tools 3.12-1ubuntu4 <-- called from the maintainer script; the manpage has more details17:25
slangaseksorry, reverse those last two options17:25
cjwatsonpsusi: I'll have a look at them17:30
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
ricotzcyphermox_, hello :), if it is possible it would be great if you could look into syncing wpasupplicant from debian/experimental 0.7.3-1 was finally release there17:36
cyphermox_ricotz, I opened a bug about it, hold on17:37
cyphermox_ricotz, bug 740164  -- if someone could ack/ process it it would be cool ;)17:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 740164 in wpasupplicant (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync wpasupplicant 0.7.3-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74016417:38
ricotzcyphermox_, great17:39
cjwatsonpsusi: uploaded, though it will need somebody else to approve it from the queue; sorry for the delay17:43
=== sforshee is now known as sforshee-lunch
tgardnerslangasek, cool. thanks for the advice.17:50
slangasektgardner: no problem - I'm also happy to review once you have a prelim package fix17:51
tgardnerslangasek, k, gimme a bit.17:51
=== sforshee-lunch is now known as sforshee
doko_bdrung: thanks!18:07
pittibdmurray: hm, is the truncation on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/natty-fixes-report.html (and also per-team pages) known?18:16
bdmurraypitti: it is now, thanks18:18
pittibdmurray: ah, thanks18:18
pittibdmurray: want a bug report somewhere?18:18
bdmurraypitti: the ubuntu-qa-tools project would be great18:19
pittibdmurray: done (bug 742675(18:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 742675 in Tools used by the Ubuntu QA Team "natty fixed bugs reports are truncated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74267518:22
* pitti appends )) to bring the universe's parentheses parser back into balance18:22
tgardnerslangasek, chinstrap.canonical.com:~rtg/module-init-tools18:25
seb128slangasek, hey18:54
slangasekseb128: hey there18:55
seb128slangasek, I think you didn't notice, but http://launchpadlibrarian.net/67265214/pango1.0_1.28.3-4ubuntu2_1.28.3-4ubuntu3.diff.gz18:56
seb128slangasek, your commit in the autoimport vcs conflicts with the upload mvo did today which is waiting in the queue18:56
slangasekseb128: this is why everyone should use the bzr branches! ;)18:57
slangasekseb128: ok, will have a look at his upload and readjust, thanks18:57
seb128slangasek, yw18:57
seb128slangasek, well to be fair the vcs is lp:~ubuntu-desktop/pango/ubuntu18:57
seb128but we got in sync so the info got dropped from the control ;-)18:58
slangasekseb128: heh18:59
seb128don't bother about the vcs18:59
slangasekyes, those are not the bzr branches I meant ;)18:59
seb128we should get back in sync next cycle18:59
mvoslangasek: I used the bzr branch first (the debcheckout one) but it was out of date and I dod not sync it up, my mistake19:01
slangasekmvo: debcheckout wouldn't have pointed to a bzr branch, afaics19:01
slangasekanyway, don't worry about it19:01
slangasekit all just means you get me to process the queue for you :)19:02
mvoslangasek: indeed, its not recorded in the src record, I probably had a local checkout or something. but yeah, the current situation is a bit of mess, ++ for unification19:05
slangasekunification doesn't solve the problem of where to commit when we /do/ need to upload to Ubuntu19:06
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
bdrungdoko_: strange. it fails again: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/67283011/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.lintian_2.5.0~rc1ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz and i have no clue why.21:00
hallynzul: hey, so if I did 'debcommit -r -R'; 'bzr push';  'bzr uncommit'; (make a change);  'debcommit -r -R';  'bzr push'21:04
hallynzul: will the tag in the end be ok?  :)21:05
cjwatsonno, you'll get an error from debcommit because the tag already exists21:08
cjwatsonhowever you can manually do 'bzr tag -f' and that should work21:08
=== releaselogger is now known as apachelogger
cjwatsonsorry, --force not -f21:08
cjwatsonand you would need bzr push --overwrite21:09
hallyncjwatson: i went ahead and re-uncommited and did 'bzr tag --delete' then redid the debcommit,21:10
hallynwhich seems to be working so far21:10
hallynah, there's the error you predicted pushing :)21:10
hallyncjwatson: thanks, --overwrite did the trick for that21:10
hallyncjwatson: oh, hey, zul mentioned on ubuntu-cloud you'd fixed some bug with the amd64 cd image perhaps relating to kim0 finding that 'debootstrap' is not installing netbase when it is on 'Depends:' for one of the packages he'as asking for with --include?21:14
=== herb__ is now known as herb
=== mnepton is now known as mneptok
ubottuUbuntu bug 459998 in davfs2 (Ubuntu) "davfs kernoops can't mount partition as user" [Undecided,In progress]21:49
james_wthe kerneloops user has a silly homedir of /21:49
james_wchanging the postinst will fix it for new users, but what should be done for existing users21:49
james_wis it ok to delete and then re-add the user?21:50
ScottKI don't think there's a guarantee it will get the same UID.21:51
ScottKIf it owns any files on disk, that would be problematic.21:51
james_whmm, yeah21:52
james_wI don't think it should in this case, but I'm not 100% sure21:52
james_wis there a command to alter a homedir after the user is created?21:52
james_wusermod -d looks likely21:54
james_wdefinitely without the -m option in this case :-)21:54
=== sconklin is now known as sconklin-gone
=== bjf is now known as bjf[afk]
=== fisted_ is now known as fisted
bdrungdoko_: fyi bug #74283223:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 742832 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "lintian FTBFS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74283223:16
=== bjf[afk] is now known as bjf
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=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan

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