[00:00] <shauno> facebook has the ultimate defence
[00:00] <shauno> if you manage to log in, they show you pictures of you drunk, that some "friend" helpfully uploaded
[00:00] <shauno> =x
[00:00] <hamitron> :D
[00:02] <HazRPG> shauno: xD
[00:03] <dogmatic69_> lol
[00:04] <dogmatic69_> tx for the advice all, much appreciated
[00:04] <dogmatic69_> $serverAdmin['skills']++;
[00:04] <dogmatic69_> will figure out the bash version soon :D
[00:04] <HazRPG> F... (almost swore then) YEAH! Managed to get calibre to do pdf conversion :D
[00:05]  * HazRPG does happy dance
[00:05] <HazRPG> shauno: ubuntu uses an old script to do pdf export for other apps
[00:06] <HazRPG> managed to force calibre to use a different one :)
[00:06] <shauno> good stuff
[00:07] <HazRPG> now if only I can force the recipe to download as a pdf...
[00:08] <HazRPG> and hopefully get it to be right-to-left and not left-to-right, because this looks too confusing :S
[00:10] <hamitron> !server
[00:15] <HazRPG> ooo, I should get some Terry Pratchett!
[00:15] <shauno> in arabic?
[00:16] <HazRPG> shauno: that would be sacrilege!
[00:17] <HazRPG> I'm only trying to download arabic news sites... so the next time I go to visit my mum I can go "hey look, aren't I a clever lad"
[00:18] <HazRPG> that, and I'm too scared to put "arabic kids books" into google...
[00:23] <shauno> well bleep.  pay just arrived, and it looks like the taxman did worse than I thought possible
[00:24] <shauno> by my math, they're taken about 45%.
[00:24] <HazRPG> did he take you round the back, wine, dine and dress you?
[00:25] <shauno> it looks like that's the only thing he didn't take :p
[00:25] <HazRPG> hehe
[00:25] <HazRPG> ouch, man 45%!
[00:26] <HazRPG> can they do that??
[00:26] <HazRPG> considering its only 25% here
[00:26] <HazRPG> ~25%*
[00:26] <hamitron> "here"?
[00:26] <X3N> explaining revenue generation of oprnspurce at a dinner *raally* hard
[00:27] <X3N> *opensource
[00:27] <HazRPG> heh
[00:27] <HazRPG> hamitron: UK?
[00:28] <HazRPG> 25% is emergency tax, which I always seem to get roped into :/
[00:28] <X3N> especially after a few drinks
[00:28] <hamitron> works out higher than 25% with NI :/
[00:28] <HazRPG> X3N: I've tried explaining it to many people before and they go "but how!? Your not selling a product!?"
[00:28] <X3N> exactly
[00:29] <HazRPG> hamitron: I doubt its 45% though
[00:29] <hamitron> maybe it is a rich guy complaining ;)
[00:30] <HazRPG> X3N: its shocking how people seem to forget that a service can still be charged for - despite it being a non-physical object
[00:30] <HazRPG> hamitron: I wish I was rich...
[00:31] <HazRPG> I'm the sort that says if ever I was rolling in it... I'd actually go out and try and extract it from the bank and try to roll in it...
[00:31] <hamitron> can never have too much money
[00:31] <hamitron> gotta re-invest
[00:32] <HazRPG> I've seen so many use the phrase... yet, when they do come into a nice sum, they don't actually roll in it as they said they would - but maybe I take the phrase a little too literally :P
[00:33] <hamitron> they maybe mean dog poo?
[00:33] <HazRPG> . . . . . . .
[00:33]  * hamitron shrugs
[00:33] <hamitron> never tried it
[00:33] <hamitron> "don't knock it till you've tried it"
[00:33] <hamitron> ;)
[00:34] <shauno> well, there goes the new laptop :(
[00:34] <dutchie> ?
[00:34] <hamitron> :/
[00:34] <dutchie> and probably :(
[00:34] <HazRPG> hamitron: guessing you've never had to unblock a toilet with your bare hands before then...
[00:35] <hamitron> i've used gloves
[00:35] <HazRPG> not that I'm saying I have...
[00:35] <HazRPG> hamitron: not quite bare though is it ;)
[00:35] <hamitron> no
[00:35] <HazRPG> and on that note... I think its time for a topic change :P
[00:36] <HazRPG> shauno: so, what is the tax rate over there exactly?
[00:36] <hamitron> but if someone wants to.... so long as they are out of smell range, let them

[00:36] <shauno> usually just over 20.  plus whatever charges they keep inventing

[00:37] <HazRPG> shauno: so how's it 45%?
[00:37] <HazRPG> shauno: life insurance, etc?
[00:37] <shauno> because my bonus took me way out of my bracket
[00:38] <shauno> and it appears the taxman responded by pocketing pretty much the whole thing
[00:38] <hamitron> what rate is the higher bracket?
[00:38] <shauno> 40, plus charges
[00:38] <shauno> their latest thing has been to call new taxes 'charges', because they exist outside of tax brackets
[00:38] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: 25% :O
[00:38] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: yeah...
[00:38] <hamitron> sounds familiar
[00:38] <hamitron> :)
[00:39] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: that a wrong value?
[00:39] <dogmatic69_> the site i was looking at said im on about 20%
[00:39] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: look up BR
[00:39] <dogmatic69_> BR?
[00:39] <HazRPG> I think its BR
[00:40] <hamitron> basic rate?
[00:40] <dogmatic69_> wait, i guess its above 20%... a portion is being taxed at 40%
[00:40] <shauno> my best guess is that their plan to solve unemployment, is to screw anyone who does work, so hard that they'd rather leave the country
[00:40] <HazRPG> hamitron: yeah, that's what I always get placed on with every job
[00:40] <dogmatic69_> lol
[00:41] <HazRPG> works out worse then bing on an L code
[00:41] <HazRPG> being*
[00:41] <dogmatic69_> HazRPG: http://listentotaxman.com/index.php
[00:41] <HazRPG> dogmatic69_: yeah I use that site a bit
[00:42] <shauno> think I'm gonna take a walk into work tomorrow to pick up my chit 'n see what the numbers actually look like
[00:42] <dogmatic69_> should just get the work to pay directly to HMRC and then let them send you any change
[00:42] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, you know the first time I'd ever heard the word "chit" was when I was in the Philippines, and they tried to rip us off
[00:42] <HazRPG> they tried to charge us twice
[00:43] <shauno> seems to happen most places :/
[00:44] <HazRPG> ironic thing is, we were told the story about watching out for them bring the chit back once you'd paid earlier that afternoon
[00:44] <HazRPG> bringing*
[00:44] <HazRPG> I worded that poorly
[00:45] <HazRPG> hmm... we were told earlier that day about a story of a guy who got ripped off by bring the chits back after he'd already paid... apparently they'd printed two prices one on either side
[00:45] <HazRPG> one was higher then the other side
[00:46] <HazRPG> I've made it my soul will to take photos of the chit & cash and then again when they take it away with the cash...
[00:46] <HazRPG> can't say we're lying then :P
[00:47] <HazRPG> almost got ripped off a second time later that evening, but I'd done the above and threatened to call the police on them
[00:47] <HazRPG> soon went quite after that :)
[00:48] <hamitron> hmmm
[00:49] <hamitron> volume to headphones never goes high enough from comps
[00:49] <hamitron> :/
[00:49] <HazRPG> first time, they tried to make out that me and my dad were pissed and that we didn't know what we were saying... just because apparently they can do the math and work out how pissed we are on how many we had per hour... clearly they've not met the Mike & Haz drinking duo ;p
[00:50] <HazRPG> hamitron: windows?
[00:50] <hamitron> yes
[00:50] <HazRPG> hamitron: its due to european sound volume laws
[00:50] <hamitron> fk europe
[00:50] <hamitron> erm, ignore them I mean
[00:50] <hamitron> I want power
[00:50] <hamitron> ;)
[00:50] <HazRPG> there's a way to get around it...
[00:50] <shauno> I just can't do it cap'n
[00:51] <hamitron> I use an external amp
[00:51] <HazRPG> I know on my MP3 player (creative zen) for it to be hearable I had to set it to 25 (max vol) to hear it... I went and downloaded the US firmware... setting the volume to 25 would blow my ear off
[00:51] <shauno> I'm so annoyed at this, that I'm really tempted to buy the laptop anyway & just enjoy being broke as dirt this month
[00:52] <hamitron> shauno: if you wait, prices may fall
[00:52] <hamitron> ;)
[00:52] <shauno> nah, it's a mac.  they don't get cheaper :p
[00:52] <HazRPG> s/may/*will*
[00:52] <hamitron> they get more powerful then
[00:53] <hamitron> or you could get a cheaper proper machine that is built more carefully
[00:53] <shauno> hah
[00:53] <HazRPG> hamitron: my trick... build the machine yourself
[00:53] <dutchie> HazRPG: i find that headphones in my laptop are painflu at more than ~60%
[00:53] <shauno> I'm not into homemade laptops :)
[00:53] <dutchie> painful even
[00:53] <hamitron> HazRPG: a laptop?
[00:53] <HazRPG> hamitron: not only do you get a longer warrenty on your gear... you also get to build it the way you want :D
[00:54] <HazRPG> so win-win \o/
[00:54] <dutchie> hamitron: yes
[00:54] <hamitron> what is there to put together on a laptop? :|
[00:54] <HazRPG> dutchie: also depends where your headphones were bought/manufactured, and what voltage they're optimized to
[00:56] <HazRPG> hamitron: http://goo.gl/5SlX9
[00:56] <HazRPG> hamitron: its do-able, you just have to be prepared to spend a bit of time measuring what you've got to work with
[00:56] <shauno> you're not going to end up with anything near sensible doing that
[00:57] <hamitron> I personally buy them ready made
[00:57] <shauno> laptop motherboards don't come in standard shapes & sizes
[00:57] <HazRPG> http://goo.gl/rLJtG <==
[00:58] <hamitron> why not solder all the parts onto a circuit board?
[00:58] <hamitron> ;)
[00:58] <HazRPG> hamitron: I've always argued that RAM, CPU, GPU should all just be tracked up properly on a single board to get rid of lag/latency/bottle-necks
[00:59] <shauno> that article points out that you don't really get a choice of motherboard
[00:59] <HazRPG> but until intel/amd/nvidia/ati/etc can all play nicely... its unlikely to ever happen
[01:00] <hamitron> AMD owns ATI...
[01:00] <shauno> so you get to pick your own cpu & harddrive, just so you can put together a laptop that's twice the size of something you'd otherwise buy
[01:00] <hamitron> I like to read plenty of reviews of off-the-shelf models, and pick the best for me
[01:00] <hamitron> :)
[01:01] <hamitron> heck, not even worth building a desktop pc these days for average joe
[01:02] <hamitron> I like to get a laptop with less memory though, saves a lot of money, cheap to upgrade yourself
[01:03] <shauno> yeah, I never mess with build-to-order options.  they never work out well
[01:03] <hamitron> shauno: btw, I am a bit of a mac fan too, just always been too tight to invest :/
[01:04] <hamitron> macbook pro look nice :)
[01:04] <shauno> eg, ram in apple laptops. buying it BTO you pay twice as much for the ram, and make it more difficult to return it if anything goes wrong
[01:04] <shauno> if you buy a 'stock' model it's easy to get them to take it back at the first sign of trouble.  BTO, they'll avoid it unless they really have to
[01:04] <shauno> so you buy it stock, and just put the old ram back in if it needs to be returned
[01:05] <shauno> cheaper & you get better service.  no-brainer :/
[01:05] <hamitron> silly really :/
[01:05] <shauno> and that's one of the less silly examples :(
[01:05] <hamitron> I am still considering doing something really silly... building a comp with a fpga
[01:06] <hamitron> not helping me resist doing so, when I am shown building laptops
[01:06] <hamitron> :)
[01:06] <shauno> I really fancy playing with that, to toy around with some odd cores
[01:06] <shauno> but I'm waiting for someone else to take care of the hardware first :)
[01:07] <hamitron> there are verilog and vhdl samples of code under the GPL
[01:07] <shauno> there's a whole bunch on opencores
[01:07] <hamitron> main hurdle is getting everything available working together
[01:07] <hamitron> yeh
[01:08] <hamitron> I'm also not sure what architecture I'd want
[01:08] <hamitron> maybe a 286 with minix as the OS
[01:08] <hamitron> :)
[01:09] <hamitron> then have a GSM module and stuff to make phone calls
[01:09] <shauno> well that's boring.  they already exist :p
[01:09] <hamitron> a 286 phone....
[01:09] <hamitron> :D
[01:09] <hamitron> well
[01:10] <hamitron> if you wait for someone else to make something for you to build.... they will already exist then ;p
[01:10] <hamitron> I'm not looking at designing my own cpu core, OS and everything
[01:11] <shauno> see, that's the bit I want to play with
[01:11] <hamitron> I want to....
[01:11] <hamitron> just not yet
[01:11] <hamitron> ;)
[01:12] <hamitron> building a comp from scratch with parts already available is a start
[01:12] <shauno> I'm really curious what it'd actually take to take an old cpu design, move it to 64bit, and move the OS with
[01:12] <hamitron> why you need 64 bit?
[01:12] <shauno> because 2038 is coming :)
[01:13] <hamitron> for a really rubbish phone, cost me £350 just to start I worked out
[01:13] <hamitron> :/
[01:14] <hamitron> and that is worse than everything else on the market.... apart from it would be all mine ;)
[01:15] <shauno> okay, I've done the math, I'm still getting my mbp, and Herself is going to hang me.  sorted.
[01:16] <hamitron> :D
[01:16] <hamitron> someone did point out to me I'd be better getting a N900
[01:17] <hamitron> in fact, a few have told me
[01:17] <hamitron> ;)
[01:17] <shauno> the real problem here of course, is that I insist on spending 2 grand on a nice laptop.  but I'm not gonna let the frikken tax man stop me
[01:17] <hamitron> haha, yhe
[01:17] <hamitron> yeh*
[01:21] <hamitron> I think my plan in the near future is to sort my mass of crap
[01:22] <hamitron> don't need all the machines I have setup
[01:22] <shauno> wire it all together and see if it attains sentience ?
[01:22] <hamitron> and the ones I keep really need to have similar setups
[01:22] <shauno> why? if they're similar you don't need them all :)
[01:22] <hamitron> ubuntu 10.04 with a apt-cache
[01:22] <hamitron> they do different tasks
[01:23] <hamitron> and in different rooms
[01:23] <hamitron> only got 5 in this room
[01:25] <hamitron> also, different tasks on different machines, means the systems you have don't struggle as much
[01:25] <shauno> I still want to figure out what on earth they did with the numbers tho, because this can't be right
[01:25] <hamitron> I was considering having vmware to have less machines, but it really doesn't work as well
[01:26] <hamitron> shauno: if it is wrong you get a refund at the end of the year?
[01:26] <hamitron> tax year I mean
[01:26] <shauno> I've no idea how that works here, because I've never got anything back from them
[01:27] <hamitron> I actually have a seperate bank account labeled "tax savings"
[01:27] <hamitron> and 50% of all my profit goes into it
[01:28] <shauno> these numbers just can't be realistic.  my bonus is 12% of my annual.  what I actually received was 0.02% of my annual.
[01:28] <hamitron> but you are an employee :/
[01:31] <hamitron> sounds messed up
[01:32] <hamitron> 0.02% is enough for a laptop? :-o
[01:32] <HazRPG> ...thats odd
[01:33] <shauno> heh, no, 0.02% isn't enough for a laptop.  it's enough to make me cry :p
[01:33] <hamitron> if it was enough, I was gonna cry ;)
[01:33] <shauno> haha
[01:34] <shauno> it means instead of spending my bonus on the laptop, I'm spending a large chunk of my regular pay instead
[01:40] <shauno> but I think my choices are either make it work, or go visit the revenue office & get arrested :)
[01:59] <HazRPG> you know what, I never did hear from that guy about my extension again...
[02:00] <HazRPG> I wonder if he just gave up out of noobrage
[02:11] <shauno> rrrrrage
[02:12] <shauno> the local apple shrine doesn't open 24hrs.  do I drum my fingers on the desk for 7 hours, or take a nap
[02:13] <HazRPG> drum fingers on desk :D
[02:13] <hamitron> drum for 1 hour, then nap ;)
[02:13] <HazRPG> we are here to assist your boredom :)
[02:13] <shauno> ooh, I have credits on audible .. that might burn a few minutes
[02:13] <HazRPG> you buy audio books often?
[02:13] <shauno> yarp
[02:14] <shauno> I subscribe to their 'audiblelistner' thingie, where you pay a flat rate and receive a couple of credits a month
[02:14] <shauno> then whenever I remember, go along and turn them into books :)
[02:15] <HazRPG> I've always been told that audio books are useful if you want to do other things while listening to a book... but well I find I end up being sad at the edge of the seat as I listen... so I might as well have just read it lol
[02:15] <shauno> I keep meaning to cancel it, but whenever I remember it's still there, it's racked up enough credits that I get excited about getting new books instead :)
[02:15] <hamitron> haha
[02:15] <HazRPG> :P
[02:17] <hamitron> what do the server iso have on?
[02:17] <hamitron> different kernel?
[02:18] <HazRPG> ubuntu-server?
[02:18] <hamitron> yeh
[02:18] <shauno> it is a different kernel for 64bit, for 32bit it's just -generic
[02:18] <HazRPG> it just has less gui-related tools and apps
[02:18] <hamitron> hmmm
[02:18] <hamitron> maybe not worth me downloading
[02:19] <HazRPG> ?
[02:19] <hamitron> can just install cli from the 32 bit cd
[02:19] <HazRPG> hamitron: don't you mean remove the desktop environment?
[02:20] <hamitron> there is a stripped version option on the alt cd
[02:20] <shauno> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/ubuntu.intrepid/server-ship
[02:20] <shauno> that'll give you an idea of what it does differently
[02:22] <shauno> there has to be a prettier version somewhere, but the seeds are handy for getting straight answers
[02:22] <HazRPG> hamitron: if you want I could just burn off a 32-bit and 64-bit version of ubuntu-server and ship them to you
[02:22] <HazRPG> if it's the download time that your worried about
[02:22] <hamitron> I've got better internet now ty
[02:22] <hamitron> :)
[02:22] <HazRPG> I'll even ship another disc with the .iso on it :)
[02:23] <hamitron> getting 1.4mbit stable
[02:23] <HazRPG> that not torture?
[02:23] <HazRPG> I have trouble with 8Mbps
[02:23] <hamitron> better than the 0.2mbit I was getting
[02:23] <shauno> if you've already got a mini iso, I'd just go with that and build up as required
[02:24] <hamitron> my plan is to use mini.iso
[02:24] <HazRPG> there is a mini.iso?
[02:24] <shauno> getting the -server kernel by default isn't worth wasting a whole cdr on
[02:24] <hamitron> but grab the .deb's off the alt cd, so i don't have to download it all
[02:25] <HazRPG> hamitron: that was the main reason I said I'd ship it to ya if ya wanted :)
[02:25] <hamitron> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[02:25] <HazRPG> postie should be around in about 3hrs or so :P
[02:26] <hamitron> I love these mini.iso
[02:26] <hamitron> they should be advertised more
[02:27] <hamitron> I couldn't actually find them through the ubuntu website
[02:27] <hamitron> had to use google
[02:27] <shauno> that's probably pretty intentional
[02:28] <HazRPG> yeah
[02:28] <hamitron> it is? ;/
[02:28] <HazRPG> new users would have a hard time with them if they found them by mistake and tried to use them
[02:29] <shauno> given the users ubuntu's aiming for, a few obvious choices is better than long list of decisions
[02:29] <HazRPG> "I'll download that one cos its smaller"
[02:29] <hamitron> when i started with ubuntu, I actually went to debian because I didn't know about them for a while
[02:30] <shauno> if you compare http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download   to http://www.debian.org/CD/
[02:30] <HazRPG> hamitron: you mean you didn't initially trust ubuntu over debian?
[02:30] <shauno> ubuntu defaults to 'the latest 32bit desktop', with an easy option to switch to 64bit if you're sure
[02:31] <hamitron> and defaults to the livecd hassle
[02:31] <shauno> debian gives you a list of http/ftp/torrent/jigdo, and then gives you a list of 10 arches without any clues
[02:32] <shauno> even then, the netinst images are less than obvious
[02:32] <hamitron> I don't mind the page as it is, just give more options under "alternative downloads"
[02:32] <shauno> if you want choices, you use http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/  :)
[02:33] <hamitron> where is that advertised?
[02:33] <HazRPG> you know, I just thought... windows has made it easier for people to download and burn iso files... isn't that almost like a step in the right direction to making it easier to people to download linux and install it?
[02:33] <shauno> right here baby :D
[02:33] <hamitron> haha
[02:33] <shauno> it's not advertised.  because it's confusing to users, and skips mirrors completely.
[02:33] <hamitron> oh, and it put me on a slow ass mirror earlier
[02:34]  * Azelphur built this today, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110324_225040.jpg
[02:34] <hamitron> 6kb/s
[02:34] <hamitron> :/
[02:34] <Azelphur> my second PC build :)
[02:34] <shauno> they keep doing that to me.  geoip keeps giving me heanet in dublin
[02:34] <shauno> which is lovely, geographically.  but it's slow as pants
[02:34] <hamitron> Azelphur: more like a monster, with that dongle out of the front
[02:34] <Azelphur> hamitron: don't hate my Ubuntu stick :O
[02:35] <hamitron> what is glowing on the mobo?
[02:35] <shauno> why does everyone make PC cases look like bad props from scifi movies :(
[02:36] <Azelphur> hamitron: Republic of gamers logo :P
[02:36] <hamitron> bright white
[02:36] <hamitron> erm, ok ;/
[02:36] <Azelphur> pretty leds :3
[02:36] <hamitron> I like a boring case
[02:36] <directhex> shauno: a combination of reasons
[02:36] <HazRPG> shauno: hmm, it always seems to point me to heanet too :/
[02:36] <directhex> hamitron: i like understated.
[02:37] <shauno> HazRPG: geograpically, it's probably right.  but it's wrong.
[02:37] <directhex> a case should look like a bentley, not an old type-r with custom decals
[02:37] <hamitron> black with some sort of trim is nice
[02:37] <hamitron> bentley ;/
[02:37] <Azelphur> hamitron: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110325_023445.jpg
[02:37] <shauno> this is a pretty obvious reply from me, but I really wish it was straight forward to put a normal motherboard/psu in a mac pro case :)
[02:37] <Azelphur> ubuntu stick :D
[02:37] <directhex> hamitron: mine's http://www.hardwarezone.com.ph/img/data/articles/2007/2280/Lianli_Casing2.jpg
[02:38] <shauno> that tells me I've come to an invalid page?
[02:39] <hamitron> mine did first time
[02:39] <HazRPG> directhex: that's pretty cool
[02:39] <shauno> but lianli are pretty hot in general.  until they try to give you more 5" bays than anyone will never need, and completely ruin the lines
[02:39] <hamitron> re-pasted and worked
[02:39] <hamitron> lianli do a DTX case I fancy
[02:40] <hamitron> only trouble, psu is on the side :/
[02:40] <Azelphur> http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u7/antec_case-thickbox.jpg my case :D
[02:40] <shauno> I kept looking for htpc cases that were pretty.   they seem to be rarer than hen's teeth too
[02:40] <HazRPG> my case: http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=731
[02:41] <HazRPG> Azelphur: hmm, that seems to be a rather popular case
[02:41] <shauno> if you ever get to play with a mac pro, take the side panel off and marvel at what a good case looks like :)
[02:42] <HazRPG> shauno: nah, what ya want is a dell server case!
[02:42] <Azelphur> HazRPG: indeed :)
[02:42] <HazRPG> man oh man... those cases are tidy in there!
[02:42] <shauno> HazRPG: http://www.architosh.com/features/2006/reviews/macpro/images/macpro_inside-lg.jpg   that tidy?
[02:42] <HazRPG> (tidy as in everything nicely has a place and no wires trailing everywhere...
[02:43] <HazRPG> shauno: ... that looks rather scary actually lol
[02:43] <HazRPG> not cos it's an apple or anything
[02:44] <HazRPG> just... well.... how are you meant to access anything??
[02:44] <HazRPG> looks like a mecano set
[02:44] <shauno> you pull it out
[02:44] <shauno> it's all just modules.  they're just fitted together perfectly to make 3 or 4 air channels
[02:45] <HazRPG> oh
[02:45] <HazRPG> well as long as you can access stuff... then that's pretty cool
[02:45] <shauno> I really wish I could do that with a bog-standard intel workstation mobo
[02:45] <directhex> hamitron: old case was http://www.casedesigns.net/wp-content/lian-li-pc-v1100-1.jpg
[02:45] <HazRPG> I was half expecting it to be like a laptop, where one panel just reveals another layer of panels that you need to unscrew
[02:46] <shauno> most of it's completely obvious once you start yanking things.  except the cpu coolers, which are a complete *cough*
[02:47] <HazRPG> shauno: well, I'd say you could... http://www.bjorn3d.com/Material/ReviewImages/TtShark/ttsinsideimage.jpg
[02:47] <HazRPG> shauno: that's the inside of mine
[02:47] <shauno> they use a gel/liquid paste between the die and the cooler, so once you break the seal to remove the heatsink, you need a new one
[02:48] <HazRPG> shauno: I must say, nasty cough you've been having today ;)
[02:48] <shauno> I really do try not to swear in here :)
[02:48] <shauno> is there a shelf in that one? or is that just a strut/bar
[02:48] <hamitron> my case http://www.ebuyer.com/product/119589
[02:48] <hamitron> :/
[02:48] <HazRPG> not quite a shelf...
[02:49] <HazRPG> but its not exactly going to fall off
[02:49] <shauno> I meant more, is it compartmented
[02:49] <HazRPG> its got like 1.5 inches on flat metal on either side where the PSU goes
[02:49] <HazRPG> which bits?
[02:50] <HazRPG> what you see is what you get :P
[02:50] <shauno> at the top where the psu goes, I can't tell if that's compartmented so that it's a separate airflow, or if that's just a well-placed strut
[02:50] <HazRPG> I can take some close ups for ya if you like
[02:51] <shauno> just a slight angle would help :)
[02:51] <shauno> perfectly side-on makes it difficult to see what that horizontal bar actually is
[02:52] <HazRPG> I'll apologise for lighting before I take it... won't be that great because i don't intend on turning it off lol
[02:54] <shauno> it's just one thing people don't seem to think out when they homebuild cases.  most seem happy enough to be "a box with everything in it"
[02:54] <shauno> and don't particularly care that their super-duper video card(s) are heating the entire case
[02:55] <hamitron> still there? ;)
[02:55] <HazRPG> yup
[02:56] <shauno> I mean, I'm just as bad.  my PC has hairties holding back some cables that seem insistent on repositioning themselves inside the cpu cooler
[02:57] <HazRPG> shauno: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5m49vq5G7lMNkt5dM8qTeg?feat=directlink
[02:58] <shauno> cool, that does look like the top section is mostly blocked off
[02:58] <shauno> and I like that people have started sticking harddrives sideways.  that makes so much sense it's silly
[02:59] <HazRPG> shauno: yeah, the top is mainly blocked off
[02:59] <shauno> used to have a machine where I had to unplug almost everything from the board, because the drives were so close to the mobo, that the path to pull them was obstructed
[02:59] <shauno> sideways, the cables don't interfere with airflow, and I can pull the disk without disturbing the rest of the machine :)
[03:00] <HazRPG> there's another two fans you can't see in that photo (or any most photos)
[03:00] <HazRPG> its between the front door and where the hard drives go
[03:00] <HazRPG> actually I think its just a huge big fan...
[03:01] <shauno> that said, the best case I've ever had was http://www.aqua-computer.de/images/products/systeme/chieftec_1_500.jpg
[03:01] <HazRPG> iirc, it blows air in from the front, and blows it out to the outer fan and up through the psu
[03:02] <HazRPG> so two exists, one entry
[03:02] <shauno> chieftec makes some pretty monstrous cases, but doesn't go overboard on making them look like scifi props
[03:02] <HazRPG> and the lid that goes in the open space is just essentially a grill... so the air from the CPU just blows straight out
[03:03] <HazRPG> probably the worst way of testing, I did the fag test on it...
[03:03] <HazRPG> lit up a fag... and watched how the air goes through
[03:03] <shauno> heh
[03:04] <HazRPG> always paranoid about airflow
[03:04] <shauno> I just get irked by things that seem like really bad choices
[03:04] <shauno> like a psu that vents air in thru the bottom and out thru the back
[03:04] <HazRPG> like having a PSU at the bottom of a case >_<
[03:05] <shauno> so if it's mounted in the top of the case, the feed is hot air from the cpu
[03:05] <shauno> if it's mounted in the bottom, the feed is choked
[03:05] <HazRPG> shauno: nah, when its mounted at the bottom, people tend to have the fan pointed up
[03:05] <HazRPG> so... its technically draws the heat from the GPU
[03:05] <shauno> I don't mind having the psu in the bottom.  bottom-heavy is useful :)
[03:06] <HazRPG> either way you can't win
[03:06] <HazRPG> shauno: guessing you haven't noticed the feet in my image then
[03:06] <shauno> I don't like that they seem determined to line the front wall with hdd bays
[03:07] <shauno> my old one had feet.  hate 'em :/
[03:08] <HazRPG> shauno: where would you have them?
[03:08] <shauno> anywhere they're not obstructing :)
[03:09] <shauno> the drive cage in yours
[03:09] <HazRPG> oh... see if I designed a case... I'd ideally have them slot from the top
[03:09] <hamitron> either of you know a good ITX case?
[03:09] <hamitron> for an i3 system
[03:09] <hamitron> :)
[03:09] <shauno> picture that turned 90º, then stuffed in the space infront of the psu
[03:09] <HazRPG> hamitron: I've had this case for 4-5 years or more dude, so not really :P
[03:09] <hamitron> hehe
[03:10] <shauno> so they're slotted | | | | with something to pull air out the top of the cage
[03:10] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, see that's where I was going with the HDD's :P
[03:11] <shauno> then you can actually pull air from the front of the case out the back
[03:12] <shauno> if you picture yours without the drive cave in the front, you'd be able to put two front-fed ducts in it
[03:12] <shauno> one feeding the gpu, one feeding the cpu
[03:12] <shauno> and just venting straight out the back
[03:13] <shauno> so neither of the hottest components in the case are being fed air that's been pre-heated
[03:14] <shauno> the gpu there, looks like if there's a cooler on it.  it's feeding and venting into the same well of air between the card and the base of the case
[03:15] <shauno> I realise these things don't actually turn out to be problems in the real world, but I like it if it makes sense in my head :)
[03:18]  * shauno wonders how long it's kosher to rant to himself before it needs to be cut shot
[03:23] <hamitron> hehe
[03:23] <hamitron> just looking at cases
[03:23] <hamitron> as my ITX is in a full ATX case atm
[03:23] <shauno> if you come across one that looks like a nice, clean dvd player, let me know :)
[03:24] <HazRPG> shauno: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/lpcogv6tvve7frd/Case%20Design.png
[03:24] <shauno> HazRPG: what I'd love to do, is build it in two layers
[03:25] <shauno> so looking from the front you've got -|-
[03:25] <shauno> the motherboard is | in the center.  one side has cpu & gpu, ducted so they're individual airflows
[03:25] <shauno> then the other side of the mobo, you've got psu & cd/dvd in one channel, and harddrives in the other
[03:26] <shauno> (because dvd aren't a significant source of heat, they're just annoyingly big boxes you've got to stuff somewhere)
[03:26] <hamitron> I like the look of this: http://techreport.com/articles.x/19641/1
[03:26] <hamitron> shame about the slim dvd drive
[03:27] <HazRPG> well in that picture I made, the top is its own compartment
[03:27] <shauno> I don't mind slim; I'd love a slotloader
[03:27] <HazRPG> although, I guess what would be better... would be to have a spacer between the PSU and HDDs
[03:28] <HazRPG> and have a fan in the front blowing out so the HDDs are on their own airflow to the PSU
[03:28] <shauno> http://www.origenae.co.kr/images/products/h5/htpc_shot5.jpg    something like that, but with a slot-loading dvd, and no display, just a little trapdoor exposing some usb ports on the front
[03:29] <shauno> I don't need a display & ir receiver, we've two phones & an ipod that are all quite capable of being boxee / xmbc remotes over wifi
[03:30] <HazRPG> indeed
[03:30] <shauno> but I do want front-facing usb ports, because if I can't hook up controllers for mame & emulators, it may as well just be a $20 dvd player
[03:31] <HazRPG> agreed
[03:31] <HazRPG> also means you can't have mates come over with a USB and a film attached ;P
[03:32] <shauno> reminds me
[03:32] <HazRPG> and if you say that doesn't happen often... does here :P
[03:32] <HazRPG> I like my new cast that arrived today
[03:32] <HazRPG> far better than the ones amazon were planning on selling me
[03:32] <shauno> doesn't here, none of my friends live in the same country as me :p
[03:33] <HazRPG> surely you have friends there though :P
[03:33] <shauno> ...
[03:36] <shauno> some day, I really should get off my rear and do something with this junk; http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/4.jpg
[03:37] <HazRPG> and actually make a mame machine?
[03:37] <Azelphur> gah, Natty installer is annoying me
[03:37] <shauno> :D
[03:37] <HazRPG> I must say I've been tempted myself :P
[03:38] <Azelphur> first time around it crashed, second time around it presented me with an option to replace Natty (no mention of my windows install) and wiped the entire HDD \o/
[03:38] <Azelphur> so now I need to reinstall windows again :P
[03:38] <shauno> oops
[03:41] <HazRPG> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_CTxty9Vo3RI/TYwNvyLBrAI/AAAAAAAAASU/XlWFLWALc3M/IMG_20110325_033239.jpg
[03:41] <HazRPG> note: never install alpha/beta builds on production/development systems :)
[03:42] <Azelphur> HazRPG: yea, I didn't loose any data it's a fresh install :)
[03:42] <Azelphur> just irritating that I have to go back again :p
[03:42] <shauno> note to self; wow/mage ebooks shouldn't be advertised in public :p
[03:42] <Azelphur> also I run natty as my main OS :D
[03:42] <HazRPG> Azelphur: indeed :P
[03:42] <HazRPG> :o
[03:42] <HazRPG> bare soul
[03:42] <Azelphur> have been for like a month now
[03:42] <HazRPG> brave*
[03:43] <Azelphur> HazRPG: it's even more brave when you realize how off the wall my system is
[03:43] <HazRPG> I did that during Jaunty, Koala, and prob a few others... never again >_<
[03:43] <Azelphur> haha
[03:43] <Azelphur> I doubt anyone on the testing team has a GTX 570 with an x58 mobo, twin graphics cards and quad display
[03:44] <shauno> I've never done that.  half the point of moving off debian was to get onto a sensible release cycle & not have to track unstable
[03:44] <HazRPG> I booted up one day (I always have install security updates by default)... and poof everything was gone
[03:44] <Azelphur> I'd actually like to move to a rolling release distro/fork one day
[03:44] <Azelphur> I hate having to manually install everything to keep it up to date
[03:44] <hamitron> off to bed
[03:45] <Azelphur> haha I doubt it'd delete my data, if the OS goes wonky I'll just reload
[03:45] <hamitron> no decent cases out
[03:45] <Azelphur> I have separate /home
[03:45] <shauno> night hamitron
[03:45] <HazRPG> Azelphur: I did >_<
[03:45] <HazRPG> nite
[03:45] <Azelphur> and it just wiped your data? wow :o
[03:45] <Azelphur> why?
[03:46] <shauno> I had sid show up unbootable a good few times, but never any data loss
[03:46] <HazRPG> Azelphur: short answer - it fudged the grubnuts
[03:47] <Azelphur> o.O
[03:47] <shauno> the only one I actually remember was a bad glibc update
[03:47] <HazRPG> proper answer: if corrupted the filesystem when they were playing around with extx (x being the number I can't remember they were playing with)
[03:47] <shauno> which was entertaining, because it meant that any process that ended, couldn't be relaunched
[03:47] <HazRPG> it*
[03:48] <Azelphur> :P
[03:49] <shauno> it was a good lesson in not resorting to reboots to fix things tho :)
[03:49] <Azelphur> haha
[03:49] <Azelphur> Anyone know what on earth these are btw? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110325_034541.jpg
[03:49] <HazRPG> lol
[03:49] <Azelphur> a bunch of them came with a case I bought, I've assembled the entire machine without using them
[03:49] <HazRPG> hard drive locks
[03:49] <HazRPG> instead of using screws
[03:49] <HazRPG> mine has them
[03:49] <Azelphur> I see o.O
[03:50] <Azelphur> I wonder how they fit on xD
[03:50] <shauno> duct tape!
[03:50] <Azelphur> YAY
[03:50] <HazRPG> its **** awesome!
[03:50] <HazRPG> specially if your like me and constantly getting bigger hard drives to store more stuff
[03:51] <HazRPG> some will be for the CD/DVD bays too
[03:51] <Azelphur> you havn't seen my case clearly :p
[03:51] <HazRPG> I have... I helped a friend build a machine with your case :P
[03:51] <Azelphur> :D
[03:51] <HazRPG> not *your* actual case fyi :P
[03:51] <Azelphur> easy to replace parts are easy to replace
[03:52] <HazRPG> those are easy to attach btw :)
[03:52] <HazRPG> the two plastic pins go where the screws normally would
[03:52] <HazRPG> then twist to lock in place :)
[03:53] <HazRPG> most of the cases that have those aren't necessary to screw both sides of the devices
[03:53] <Azelphur> I see
[03:54] <HazRPG> mine, is almost near impossible to get to the other side even if you *did* want to screw them from both sides
[03:54] <Azelphur> in other news, I made a minecraft skin...be afraid http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/March%202010/2011-03-25_03.53.05.png
[03:54] <Azelphur> xD
[03:54] <shauno> haha
[03:54] <shauno> mine's a pirate :)
[03:54] <Azelphur> haha :)
[03:54] <HazRPG> winner!
[03:54] <Azelphur> the eyes...they are looking at you xD
[03:54] <HazRPG> mines a smiley dude in a suit
[03:54] <Azelphur> I keep seeing people with creeper skins, so annoying
[03:54] <Azelphur> lol
[03:54] <shauno> it'd go well with my "thing" for building ships, but you can't rotate view to screenie yourself
[03:55] <HazRPG> :P
[03:55] <HazRPG> shauno: can if you have someone else do the screen ;)
[03:55] <shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2011-03-21_00.41.36.png
[03:55] <HazRPG> or get dual accounts...
[03:55] <shauno> this is my latest project.  baconomatic :D
[03:56] <HazRPG> \o/
[03:56] <HazRPG> wait... how!
[03:56] <shauno> pigs & lava
[03:56] <HazRPG> just traps unsuspecting p...
[03:56] <HazRPG> yeah
[03:56] <shauno> and ladders
[03:56] <Azelphur> shauno: mines better :p
[03:57] <shauno> dun care :)  mine's single-player, so doesn't need silly amounts of bacon :)
[03:57] <Azelphur> shauno: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/March%202010/2011-03-20_22.56.23.png
[03:57] <Azelphur> hehe :P
[03:58] <kaushal> hi
[03:58] <shauno> also, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2011-03-14_03.32.32.png   makes me happy
[03:58] <Azelphur> hi
[03:58] <shauno> morning kaushal
[03:58] <kaushal> Azelphur: hi
[03:58] <kaushal> shauno: hi
[03:58] <Azelphur> shauno: haha
[03:58] <HazRPG> Azelphur: where'd you get the 'buntu stickers from for your flash drive?
[03:58] <HazRPG> mornin kaushal
[03:58] <Azelphur> HazRPG: ubuntu shop
[03:58] <kaushal> please help me understand about the issue http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/585182/
[03:58] <kaushal> HazRPG: Hi
[03:59] <kaushal> How do i resolve it
[04:00] <HazRPG> erm...
[04:00] <HazRPG> kaushal: try visiting - http://archive.ubuntu.com/
[04:00] <HazRPG> does that even load up?
[04:00] <Azelphur> kaushal: it looks like a connection issue, your trying to download from archive.ubuntu.com but getting local IP addresses
[04:00] <Azelphur> yea, try that
[04:00] <HazRPG> looks like its timing out
[04:01] <shauno> I think that's intentional, popey was helping him setup a caching apt proxy the other morning
[04:01] <Azelphur> fun
[04:01] <kaushal> shauno: that fixed it
[04:02] <kaushal> so when i remove the local lan address from sources.list
[04:02] <kaushal> i still get the error
[04:02] <kaushal> Let me pastebin the error
[04:10] <shauno> HazRPG: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2011-03-25_04.08.51.png    my current project, and why my toon needs a pirate skin :)
[04:11] <Azelphur> shauno: nice :D
[04:11] <Azelphur> shauno: I have a base under an ocean miles away from everyone else :D
[04:11] <Azelphur> it's funny people keep asking me why I'm in the ocean when looking at the map :)
[04:11] <shauno> it was walled on 3 sides, until I needed to expand the rail into two tracks.  much tnt later ..
[04:12] <Azelphur> hehe
[04:12] <shauno> so now the left-hand side looks a bit .. gimpish
[04:12] <Azelphur> shauno: http://game.azelphur.com:8123/ pull the side bar out and click Azelphur :P
[04:13] <Azelphur> also blimey I'm the only person on, that doesn't usually happen :p
[04:13] <shauno> hah, nice
[04:13] <shauno> what are you using for that map ?
[04:13] <Azelphur> hehe, I literally swam out there, dove into the ocean and chugged food while drowning to start digging XD
[04:13] <Azelphur> dynmap
[04:14] <Azelphur> it's live, if I run around you'll see, watch :P
[04:14] <shauno> hah, that is snazzy
[04:14] <shauno> and the textinput lower left?
[04:14] <Azelphur> indeed
[04:14] <Azelphur> that's for chat
[04:14] <HazRPG> shauno: wicked :D
[04:15] <shauno> that really is quite nifty
[04:15] <Azelphur> indeed :(
[04:15] <Azelphur> :)*
[04:16] <Azelphur> Also Windows 7 is stupid, Password: (Recommended), Password Hint: (Required)
[04:16] <Azelphur> It's ok if you don't have a password, just as long as you have a hint to the password you may or may not have, it's all good.
[04:16] <shauno> I was trying one called pigmap, but it completely outweighed the available ram on my vps
[04:16] <Azelphur> hehe, this basically generates chunks as changes happen
[04:16] <Azelphur> so it's low resource
[04:17] <shauno> overviewer is going nuts now that my map is about 35Mb
[04:17] <Azelphur> my map is 150MBish xD
[04:17] <shauno> I set overview going doing day & night views of my map, and woke up to sms yelling at me about disk quotas :(
[04:18] <Azelphur> haha
[04:18] <Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/forum/low-down-new-server
[04:18] <Azelphur> quotas, I don't have to worry about them
[04:18] <shauno> which is a poopy way to wake up, because that host does my email, so no disk = no mail
[04:19] <Azelphur> haha
[04:19] <Azelphur> I don't even particularly worry when I get DoS'd, I've got so much bandwith I just iptables and absorb
[04:19] <Azelphur> It's nice :)
[04:20] <shauno> heh, well I'm not paying $150/mo :)
[04:20] <Azelphur> true
[04:20] <shauno> neither do I need that kinda beefery for a mailserver
[04:21] <shauno> stuck a failover mx on one of buyvm's $15/year plans, other than that I'm happy on £10/mo
[04:21] <Azelphur> yea, I need a lot of server for multiple gameservers :)
[04:22] <Azelphur> got plenty of room for minecraft though :)
[04:22] <shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/585188/   :D
[04:23] <Azelphur> shauno: http://pastebin.com/yXPBQuWy :D
[04:23] <shauno> (0 cached because failover mx does diddlysquat until I break the primary)
[04:23] <shauno> ew, you're swapping
[04:23] <Azelphur> lol 1.8GB for MC server atm :D
[04:24] <Azelphur> all 16MB XD
[04:24] <Azelphur> and that's because of kernel swappiness
[04:24] <Azelphur> it's a performance thing, it's fine and actually faster than not swapping
[04:24] <Azelphur> (you don't want to swap on a VPS, but on a dedi it's faster/fine)
[04:25] <shauno> I tend to take anything that spends too long in swap, as a sign that it probably shouldn't be there
[04:25] <HazRPG> I'm guessing Rhythmbox doesn't actually store the library anywhere... it just scans the folders each time...
[04:25] <HazRPG> or am I wrong with that assumption ?
[04:25] <shauno> HazRPG: I hope you're wrong :)
[04:25] <HazRPG> shauno: can't find a folder where it'd store its data other than gconf
[04:26] <Azelphur> shauno: the notice how I have 3.7GB in buffers/cache? :P
[04:26] <shauno> this is where I <3 apple for fseventer.  but .. hmm .. strace?
[04:27] <shauno> you should be able to watch exactly what files it's hitting
[04:27] <Azelphur> shauno: the kernel is prioritizing keeping files cached in memory which are constantly being written to, rather than some idle application that's doing nothing
[04:27] <Azelphur> so on a dedi this is faster, it keeps the files it's constantly messing with in memory and slams some totally idle process into swap
[04:27] <HazRPG> ?
[04:27] <shauno> Azelphur: ofc.  I just avoid having idle apps doing nothing :)
[04:27] <Azelphur> on a VPS it's bad because disk I/O is at a premium :P
[04:27] <Azelphur> hehe
[04:27] <HazRPG> I'm lost now lol
[04:27] <shauno> but when I'm that narrow for ram (that claims I have 256, but I've 128+burst), I have to
[04:28] <Azelphur> shauno: pfft, guess where I started my empire?
[04:28] <shauno> mongolian steppes?
[04:28] <Azelphur> shauno: 32MB VPS running debian :)
[04:29] <shauno> HazRPG: try ~/.local/share/rhythmbox
[04:29] <shauno> that's dot-local
[04:29] <Azelphur> I had that from vpslink.com, they totally messed me about I had like 90% packet loss to the server and they made up some crap about how I was out of RAM when I very clearly wasn't :p
[04:30] <Azelphur> I ranted about it here, and Daviey hooked me up with a VPS for the same price that didn't suck, then later I upgraded to 64MB, 256MB, then I went and got the dedi :)
[04:30] <Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/February%202011/2011-02-19-005746_1633x777_scrot.png internet empires :P
[04:30] <HazRPG> wow firefox 4 loads pretty darn fast!
[04:31] <HazRPG> shauno: cheers :)
[04:33] <shauno> 4.30am .. half way there
[04:34] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/585192/
[04:34] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, again cheers... managed to fix my db for it :)
[04:35] <HazRPG> kept saying I didn't have songs that I knew I actually did in said music folder :/
[04:37] <HazRPG> moment
[04:37] <shauno> I think 'NODATA' is the imperative word in that paste.  I don't think your cache is actually returning anything
[04:38] <shauno> if you can find any logs for service that's providing the apt cache/proxy, I think they'd lead you to the problem
[04:39] <shauno> (or if you can wait until the sensible people start waking up, you may find someone who uses the same apt-cache service)
[04:45] <Azelphur> :( natty installer crashes every time for me
[04:47]  * Azelphur tries a 10.04 CD
[04:50] <shauno> http://www.flickr.com/photos/usnavy/5553425877/   do want.
[04:57] <shauno> I keep putting the kettle on & forgetting to make coffee.  how am I ever going to survive 5am like that
[04:58] <Azelphur> haha
[04:59] <Azelphur> My mob spawner machine randomly started producing eggs, upon further review, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/March%202010/2011-03-25_04.53.19.png
[04:59] <Azelphur> I wonder how he survived the lava and made it down there, very enterprising o.O
[04:59] <shauno> noice
[04:59] <Azelphur> can't complain, free eggs are free :D
[05:16] <shauno> ugh.  now I want to play, but I can't be bothered rebooting for it
[05:20] <HazRPG> aww man, apparently ubuntu wasn't selected for the google summer of code
[05:26] <HazRPG> shauno: reboot?
[05:27] <shauno> minecraft keeps crashing with GL errors, but seems to work fine on 10.7
[05:28] <shauno> 10.7 being a developer preview, I don't tend to use it any more than I have to
[05:28] <HazRPG> hmm, how come books aren't subject to VAT?
[05:29] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, that makes sense
[05:29] <HazRPG> speaking of coffee...
[05:29]  * HazRPG goes to make a brew
[05:31] <shauno> I think I'm getting old.  I've discovered that the bbc world service is actually interesting
[05:37] <HazRPG> hmm, I started reading the news about 2 years ago :/
[05:37] <HazRPG> I get called old just for that alone
[05:57] <shauno> also feels a bit daft that my preferred way to do so now is streaming on my phone :/
[05:58] <shauno> seems incredibly wasteful after years of building radios, but it's so damned handy
[06:03] <HazRPG> wait, I'm lost... you mean the bbc world service?
[06:04] <shauno> yeah
[06:05] <HazRPG> oh
[06:05] <HazRPG> heh
[06:06] <HazRPG> I don't know if its real leather... but this kindle cover smells like it is :)
[06:06] <HazRPG> don't know why, but the smell of fresh(ish) leather is just awesome
[06:07] <shauno> used to live next door to a guy that'd tan hides on a wooden post at the bottom of the garden.  less than awesome :p
[06:08] <HazRPG> ... don't know what that would smell like
[06:09] <shauno> mostly just strange chemicals
[06:09] <HazRPG> ... ... ... ... why did I expect the "text-to-speech" on this would actually speak in Stephen Fry's voice (other than the fact that he's the author of this sample ebook)
[06:10] <shauno> heh
[06:10] <shauno> so the kindle's new then ?
[06:10] <HazRPG> oh, heh yeah only just got it this week :P
[06:10] <shauno> ah
[06:10] <HazRPG> why do ya think I'm currently obsessed with it at the moment - new toy to play with :)
[06:11] <HazRPG> was an impulse-buy when I saw it in tescos @ 4am in the morning
[06:11] <shauno> lol
[06:12] <shauno> I do want to pick up something to read pdfs a bit more comfortably, but not yet
[06:13] <HazRPG> if even I'm rolling it... I'll get you one ^^
[06:13] <shauno> haha
[06:13] <shauno> well the plan was to pick up a new ipad this month, until I discovered I had a bonus coming
[06:13] <HazRPG> I'll even let you pick what model/make :P
[06:14] <shauno> just holding off because this laptop's degraded to the stage where replacing it comes first
[06:15] <HazRPG> hmm, guessing text-to-speech is never going to sound properly /real/ is it
[06:15] <shauno> it's getting better, but: no
[06:16] <shauno> my a500 did text to speech.  my mac does too, and it's really not that significantly better
[06:16] <HazRPG> I'm  going to find this archived log in 10 years time and probably eat my own hat for saying /never/ lol
[06:16] <shauno> I mean, it's noticeably better, but doesn't feel like 20 years worth of improvement
[06:17] <shauno> hm, that's a new one from firefox
[06:17] <HazRPG> I don't know... the kindle does sound better than most though... but well I'll let you be the judge
[06:17]  * HazRPG scurries off to record
[06:17] <HazRPG> shauno: ?
[06:18] <shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20shot%202011-03-25%20at%2006.17.40.png
[06:18] <HazRPG> ogg okay with you?
[06:18] <shauno> sure
[06:19] <HazRPG> hmm, how odd (you link)
[06:20] <shauno> hah, that's awesome
[06:20] <shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20shot%202011-03-25%20at%2006.20.15.png
[06:22] <shauno> I can't figure out what plugin it thinks it needs
[06:22] <HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/kindle%20text-to-speech.ogg
[06:22] <HazRPG> wait, you have a SID plugin for firefox?
[06:23] <shauno> I do
[06:23] <shauno> sorta
[06:24] <HazRPG> is that the plugin your having trouble with?
[06:24] <shauno> hm, would I be able to find the text of that anywhere?
[06:25] <HazRPG> the book?
[06:25] <shauno> I don't think so, just noticed it in the plugin list
[06:25] <shauno> yeah.  or atleast just the passage they're reading out
[06:25] <HazRPG> hard to follow?
[06:25] <shauno> was curious to compare with what the OS has built-in
[06:25] <HazRPG> ah :P
[06:26] <HazRPG> Moab Is My Washpot, by Stephen Fry
[06:26] <shauno> $ find /Library/ -name SIDPlug.plugin
[06:26] <HazRPG> it showed up as "recommended" for me apparently
[06:26] <shauno> /Library//Internet Plug-Ins/SIDPlug.plugin
[06:26] <shauno> apparently it is a browser plugin, it's not just being lifted from somewhere else.  <3 sidplug
[06:26] <HazRPG> you know, I keep forgetting the MacOS has a unix base lol
[06:27] <shauno> technically, MacOS doesn't, and Mac OSX does :p
[06:27] <HazRPG> pedantic much :P
[06:28] <shauno> sorta :)  but as MacOS is an OS, and isn't remotely unix-based at all, it makes a difference :)
[06:28] <HazRPG> hang on, if you want I'll see if I can cut the DRM out of the sample
[06:28] <shauno> no worries, taking a peek to see if I can find it on mine
[06:29] <HazRPG> ooo, see now that's much better... (speed of calibre v.0.7.50, as opposed to the v.0.7.18 in the repo which I was using a few nights ago)
[06:30] <HazRPG> if you've got an android, or Kindle for Mac (PC/etc) software, you can grab the book that way
[06:30] <HazRPG> not sure if you can grab it without a "kindle" based piece of kit
[06:30] <shauno> hah, $6 what?
[06:30] <shauno> I got kindle.app :)
[06:30] <HazRPG> ah phone :P
[06:31] <shauno> naw, http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000464931
[06:31] <HazRPG> iPhone more precisely
[06:31] <HazRPG> ah, so Kindle for Mac... like I said :)
[06:32] <shauno> I use stanza on my phone.  it's fantastic :)
[06:32] <HazRPG> I've heard about that, any good?
[06:33] <shauno> I like it
[06:33] <HazRPG> what format do you want the book in?
[06:33] <shauno> mostly because it doesn't try to tie itself to any store  (well, multiple stores)
[06:33] <shauno> epub would be easiest, otherwise I think I have calibre around here somewhere
[06:34] <HazRPG> wow... that... actually... worked!
[06:34] <HazRPG> clearly the samples aren't DRMed
[06:34] <shauno> heh, I just found the sample :)
[06:35] <HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/
[06:35] <HazRPG> oh...
[06:35] <HazRPG> was going to say take your pick, its in azw and epub
[06:36] <shauno> trying to figure out why kindle.app hasn't noticed yet :/
[06:36] <HazRPG> hmm
[06:37] <shauno> ah, there we go.  just have to restart it, because it's braindead
[06:38] <HazRPG> so the "give it a knock on the head" tricked made it work then
[06:39] <HazRPG> speaking of "why didn't it work", I'm pretty such I said "buy" to two books @ £0.91p ... and they still haven't come through yet (even when hitting sync)
[06:39] <HazRPG> hmm...
[06:39] <HazRPG> wait, what was the $6 for?
[06:39] <HazRPG> this book is £2.65 apparently
[06:40] <HazRPG> so that would be ... $4 at most?
[06:40] <shauno> that's the price .com was giving me
[06:40] <shauno> pft, can't copy & paste.  ty amazon
[06:42] <HazRPG> stop people stealing books I guess
[06:42] <shauno> I'm just trying to get text-to-speech to play the same section you did
[06:42] <shauno> they've disabled Services, so I can't do it from within the app itself
[06:42] <HazRPG> (but I'm pretty sure there's a py script that opens Kindle for PC/Mac select book, close, and it asks you where to save the DRMless book...
[06:43] <HazRPG> I linked to epub above :)
[06:44] <HazRPG> I'll redo from page 1 if you want?
[06:45] <HazRPG> because that's from 31% (whatever that means) of the book
[06:45] <shauno> no worries, I'm getting there :)
[06:46] <HazRPG> do you want man or woman version? :P
[06:47] <shauno> I'm just playing with this now.  it'll sing it if I ask it to :/
[06:49] <HazRPG> if you've still got my tmp folder open, refresh and you'll see sample-female.ogg
[06:49] <HazRPG> its playing page 1 (or well start of chapter 1) and a bit of the 2nd page too
[06:49] <shauno> see if you can play http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/sing.aiff
[06:50] <shauno> (no idea what aiff is, but it's apparently the default output for the voice engine :(
[06:51] <shauno> it's less fair comparison, and more 7am ADD :)
[06:51] <HazRPG> aiff is an old sound format iirc
[06:51] <HazRPG> I remember that format from when I was 14
[06:51] <HazRPG> couldn't play that in totem
[06:51] <HazRPG> opening up in audacity
[06:51] <shauno> speaking of 7am, I'm surprised no-one's awake yet.  MartijnVdS hiding?
[06:51] <HazRPG> haha!
[06:52] <HazRPG> oh yeah... random
[06:52] <shauno> tell me that's not just a little bit strange :)
[06:52] <shauno> I'd love to leave it on that setting, but I actually use the speech engine :/
[06:53] <HazRPG> ...strange, all I understood from most of that was "bacon slicer"
[06:53] <HazRPG> and the start
[06:53] <HazRPG> "you should watch out for... he is Chinese... dead legs... bacon slicer"
[06:53] <HazRPG> was all I could make out :P
[06:53] <shauno> sounds like a fun night out
[06:54] <HazRPG> haha
[06:54] <shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/ralph.aiff
[06:54] <shauno> (not the default voice either, but the one I tend to have it on)
[06:55] <HazRPG> hmm, apparently audacity is still open
[06:55]  * HazRPG tries vlc for now
[06:55] <HazRPG> apparently not
[06:55] <shauno> the firewall app I use, uses voiceover if it needs to prompt, but it can't come to front
[06:55] <HazRPG> right... where do I kill it
[06:56] <HazRPG> oh right
[06:56] <shauno> which would be an odd detail, until it needs to ask for an outbound exception while I have a game running
[06:57] <HazRPG> erm... that's... I don't know which one I don't understand more :S
[06:57] <shauno> eg, if I open minecraft, hit fullscreen, and then try to connect to a server I haven't used before, I get big boomy voice of god telling me the connection's been filtered
[06:57] <HazRPG> sounds like stephen hawking
[06:58] <shauno> yeah, they all kinda do.  except the silly ones, which sound worse :)
[06:58] <HazRPG> hmm, see at least the kindle one is understandable I guess :)
[07:00] <HazRPG> she's even more audible when set to the slow option, however does sound a bit more mechanical
[07:00] <HazRPG> (if that's even possible)
[07:00] <HazRPG> there's a point, does ubuntu have one?
[07:04] <HazRPG> apparently there's "Festival" that does it in ubuntu... but not provided ootb
[07:05] <HazRPG> isn't that technically discrimination against people who can't see :S
[07:05] <AlanBell> HazRPG: I have about 90 irssi windows at the moment
[07:06] <HazRPG> AlanBell: woah, no way!
[07:07] <kaushal_> hi
[07:07] <AlanBell> speech in Ubuntu is provided ootb
[07:07] <kaushal_> is there a way to know the hard disk rpm ?
[07:08] <AlanBell> HazRPG: at a terminal prompt try: spd-say "Ubuntu like totally rocks dude"
[07:08] <kaushal> i checked sudo lshw -C disk and hdparam and cat /proc/scsi/scsi
[07:08] <HazRPG> AlanBell: also, good morning :)
[07:08] <kaushal> no info there
[07:08] <kaushal> AlanBell: hi
[07:08] <AlanBell> and yeah morning all
[07:09] <AlanBell> kaushal: normally printed on the disk, just pop it out and have a look
[07:09] <HazRPG> AlanBell: oh wait, yeah I've heard that voice before in mumble... heh, I thought it was built into mumble since it does the same in windows
[07:09] <HazRPG> festival sounds nicer though :)
[07:10] <HazRPG> I'll see if I can get a recording of it :P
[07:10] <AlanBell> spd-say uses speech dispatcher
[07:10] <AlanBell> which is a common interface to many speech to text back ends
[07:10] <AlanBell> so it could use a nicer synthesis if you plugged one in, then applications like orca would just use it too
[07:11] <AlanBell> one thing you can do with the mechanical voices is speed them up, some blind people listen at *huge* speeds
[07:12] <shauno> they'd love ireland then
[07:12] <HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/ubuntu-festival-its-talking.ogg
[07:13] <HazRPG> sorry the volumes a bit low... i didn't check it before saving
[07:13] <HazRPG> actually that's really poor... I'll try that again
[07:13] <shauno> check to see if it'll spit it straight to a file?
[07:14] <shauno> eg, on mine I just did say --voice ralph --out ralph.aiff <file
[07:14] <HazRPG> its like python, when you type in festival, it takes you to a "festival> " prompt
[07:14] <shauno> sure.  and like python I bet it can be run non-interactively too :)
[07:15] <HazRPG> --pipe sound about right?
[07:15]  * HazRPG looks in man
[07:17] <shauno> --tts filename seems to read from a file, but it's still asking for /dev/dsp :(
[07:19] <shauno> Run in named language, default is english, spanish, russian and welsh are available
[07:19] <shauno> overachiever :/
[07:20] <HazRPG> well "festival --pipe > file.ogg" then giving it something to say after the prompt, then closing didn't do anything
[07:20] <HazRPG> its just a blank file :(
[07:20] <kaushal> AlanBell: sorry was away
[07:20] <kaushal> its a remote server
[07:20] <kaushal> running ubuntu 10.04
[07:21] <shauno> bonus points for BUGS: More than you can imagine.
[07:22] <HazRPG> ?
[07:23] <HazRPG> apparently you can pipe it through using echo "text you want to say" | festival --tts
[07:23] <shauno> the manpage :)
[07:23] <HazRPG> but to save to file, you can't for some reason
[07:24] <HazRPG> there's a program called text2wave though
[07:24] <HazRPG> !text2wave
[07:24] <HazRPG> (apparently not)
[07:24] <shauno> $ dpkg -S `which text2wave`
[07:24] <shauno> festival: /usr/bin/text2wave
[07:24] <shauno> *thunk*
[07:24] <HazRPG> oh heh, yeah just realised (doh!)
[07:25] <HazRPG> ?
[07:25] <HazRPG> wait... so its part of festival :S
[07:25] <shauno> exactly :)
[07:25] <HazRPG> hmm...
[07:25] <HazRPG> to the BATCAVE!
[07:25] <AlanBell> kaushal: with hdparm -t you can test the performance of it, but I don't think that gives RPM directly
[07:26] <HazRPG> shauno: >_< >_< >_<!!!! OWWW!
[07:26] <HazRPG> TOO LOUD! (thinks he's gone def now)
[07:27] <HazRPG> that output was really really bad!
[07:27] <shauno> bad? or do you just have your volume all the way up because your last one was so quiet to listen to
[07:27] <HazRPG> I'm at 15% (and now have sore ears)
[07:28] <HazRPG> I'll see if I can clean it up in audacity
[07:32] <shauno> I'm sure I had a way to query for a harddrive's model number, but every VM I try it on laughs at me for not having a harddrive
[07:33] <HazRPG> nope... that's just unfixable for some reason...
[07:35] <shauno> I think I'd just resort to dmesg | grep -E 'ATA|IDE' as they're printed during boot, then google the model number.  the actual rpm isn't really communicated to the OS because it simply doesn't need to know
[07:40] <HazRPG> shauno: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/ubuntu-festival-is-talking2.ogg
[07:40] <shauno> I don't know what worries me more about google.  that they'll one day end up implanted in my skull.  or that I one day won't have access to google
[07:41] <shauno> HazRPG: four-oh-four!
[07:41] <shauno> (*its)
[07:41] <HazRPG> http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/ its in there!
[07:41] <shauno> aye, but you spelt it wrong :p  copy 'n paste man
[07:42] <shauno> I'm bored.  I think I'll update my natty VM.  :D
[07:42] <HazRPG> bleh, I typed it out because I'm just c&p-ing the file from one directory over to the server lol
[07:43] <shauno> I name the directory each vhost lives in, by it's canonical name.  so I can copy 'n paste from there :)
[07:43] <HazRPG> what was the thing you needed to do in 7hrs (remembers you said something about staying up or napping because of a thing)
[07:43] <shauno> eg, /srv/www/example.com/tmp/
[07:44] <shauno> :(  upgrade wants to remove gnome-user-guide
[07:44] <HazRPG> ah see I have my setup differently
[07:44] <HazRPG> smb://<servername>/www/www.hazrpg.co.uk/htdocs/tmp
[07:45] <HazRPG> its a windies server ya see
[07:46] <HazRPG> before /htdocs/ I have these folders: cgi-bin, logs, (and a few backup ones)
[07:47] <HazRPG> (and a few protected pages I think go inside there too)
[07:52] <HazRPG> hmm, should this worry me? (error.log) :: 2011] [error] [client 62.177.251.198] client sent HTTP/1.1 request without hostname (see RFC2616 section 14.23): /w00tw00t.at.ISC.SANS.test0:)
[07:59] <HazRPG> wow, apparently I've been getting a few attacks over the last few nights#
[08:00] <HazRPG> all checks for usual folders (does not exist because of my folder scheme)
[08:20] <DJones> Morning all
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: HTTP server?
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Welcome to the world of constant attacks.. same wit hssh
[08:22] <HazRPG> yeah
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> they won't hurt as long as you keep up to date (and maybe install something like fail2ban and configure it to ban IPs that make an "evil request" too often)
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> I run denyhosts on all our servers and public facing devices.
[08:24] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: does that work for non-ssh things as well?
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno. That's the one I'm really bothered about.
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> yeah, that's also fail2ban's default
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://denyhosts.sourceforge.net/
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Seems like it's just ssh/
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> but it can read any log file you ask it to (as long as you supply a regex that matches "this is evil" lines )
[08:25]  * MartijnVdS nattyfies
[08:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting - I might take a look at fail2ban.
[08:32] <DJones> I'm in the market for a new laptop, priced below £500, lower if possible, are there any specific machines people would recommend that work OTB and are minecraft capeable :)
[08:33] <MartijnVdS> Intel graphics are dirt cheap
[08:33] <MartijnVdS> and have proper GL support, so I imagine MC works
[08:33] <DJones> MC?
[08:33] <DJones> minecraft, sorry
[08:33] <ali1234> pinetrail
[08:34] <ali1234> eg http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/dell-inspiron-mini-10.aspx
[08:35] <AlanBell> there are loads around £350-400 with 1366x768 screens and intel graphics that will work fine
[08:35] <DJones> ali1234: I'm probably looking more for a desktop replacement rather than netbook
[08:35] <AlanBell> AMD or core i3 processors
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> i3 ♥
[08:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> i3 is nice, shame the VGA port scanning issue is *still* there though.
[08:36] <DJones> AlanBell: Thats about the sort of thing I'm looking for, although preferably a 1600*900 screen
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: port scanning issue?
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: explain :)
[08:36] <AlanBell> yeah that issue is dragging on
[08:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hang on.
[08:36] <AlanBell> vga port output is wobbly
[08:36] <DJones> Although that does seem to bump the price up quite a bit
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ah.. so DVI is fine?
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bug 614238
[08:37] <ali1234> 1600x900 is a weird resolution
[08:37] <AlanBell> hdmi
[08:37] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I have no problems using DVI/HDMI on my i3
[08:37] <AlanBell> and you can get hdmi-DVI adapters quite easily
[08:37] <DJones> Ideally, 1600*900, 4Gb memory, dvd rewriter, maybe hdmi output
[08:39] <gord> ah must be spring, giant bumble bee's have started invading my house, causing me to run in fear like a child
[08:39] <DJones> Is there much performance difference between an i3/i5 & Athlon II X2 dual core
[08:39] <DJones> Its that long since I bought a computer, I'm not up to date on processor performance
[08:39] <gord> i would expect so i<thing>'s are crazy fast
[08:39] <AlanBell> unless you are doing something specific then don't worry about the CPU
[08:40] <gord> looking up a quick benchmark - i5's are about 2-3 times faster than the fastest X2
[08:41] <MartijnVdS> I bought to soon.. Sandy Bridge has i7s with built-in graphics
[08:41]  * MartijnVdS wants
[08:42] <AlanBell> I would pick an i3 with more ram over an i5 with less
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> I hit the peak of my i3 sometimes now
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> (CPU-wise)
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> it's really frustrating
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> but if/when I upgrade I'm also buying a bit more RAM :)
[08:43] <BigRedS> I've generally heard that i3s aren't worth bothering with
[08:44] <BigRedS> that is from hardware snobs, though
[08:44] <gord> if i have 2gb of ram then i'm not interested in more, i would pick an i5. ram is easy to upgrade, cpus aren't so much
[08:44] <gord> i3's are budget cpu's, you get what you pay for
[08:44]  * BigRedS tries to only get what other people pay for
[08:45] <ali1234> lol 2gb
[08:45] <gord> i'v get to be in a situation where i require more than 2gb of ram
[08:45] <DJones> ali1234: 2gb would be a 4 fold increase in what I'm using :)
[08:45] <BigRedS> yeah, I don't imagine I'd have issues with 2gb
[08:45] <BigRedS> I've no idea what I have now
[08:45] <ali1234> my current memory usage is 2.4gb
[08:45] <BigRedS> heh. 2GB
[08:45] <ali1234> i'm not even running anything special
[08:46] <gord> ali1234, real memory or cache
[08:46] <ali1234> real
[08:46] <BigRedS> I run firefox, claws & terminator basically
[08:46] <AlanBell> I have several virtualbox instances running
[08:46] <screen-x> I have 384MB free out of 8GB on a normal desktop.
[08:46] <ali1234> if i started up a virtualbox i would be swapping because i only have 4gb
[08:46] <gord> there are instances where you would require > 2gb memory, but most people don't need that
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> i3s are the Celerons of this age :)
[08:47] <ali1234> yeah, instances like "opening more than one firefox window"
[08:47] <gord> ali1234, no - firefox will make *use* of more ram, but it doesn't require it
[08:47] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: or just the one with a Flash page
[08:47] <BigRedS> yeah, i can get loads of firefox on this
[08:48] <BigRedS> it needs restarting every few weeks, but it is a web browser, not some HA server
[08:48] <ali1234> flash is using only 38mb
[08:48] <ali1234> firefox is using 500mb
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Flash uses 100% CPU though
[08:48] <ali1234> no
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> it does for me, all the time
[08:48] <ali1234> currently the highest cu user is gnome-system-monitor at 32%
[08:49] <ali1234> *cpu
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/PhEyU.jpg
[08:49] <ali1234> that's the only thing using more than 1%
[08:49] <screen-x> Heh, my highest residential memory user is shutter, an annoying perl screenshot tool that I keep meaning to remove
[08:50] <czajkowski> morning
[08:50] <BigRedS> it's a daemon?
[08:51] <screen-x> BigRedS: not really, but I forget to kill it as it starts whenever you press prtscrn
[08:52] <gord> cpu is something you want on demand, it might not be used 100% of the time like ram is, but when it is used you want it to finish its operation as quickly as possible. its "time sensitive" - you want "enough" ram, but generally you always want a faster cpu
[08:52] <gord> good morning cztab!
[08:52]  * czajkowski peers at gord oi cheeky no cake for you
[08:52] <czajkowski> far too early to be tabbing me
[08:53] <screen-x> czajkowski: I'm not sure I've ever typed czajkowski
[08:53] <ali1234> there's simply no point having a fast CPU if every operation causes a page fault which take 1.3 seconds to service
[08:54] <ali1234> which is my current situation
[08:54] <gord> ali1234, you'll note the word "enough". if you had less ram firefox would simply not cache as much stuff
[08:55] <gord> the idea that it would eat in to swap is just plain false. else using firefox on my netbook would plain not work
[08:56] <ali1234> it's funny, because firefox on my netbook *does* plain not work
[08:56] <gord> maybe you need a faster cpu ;)
[08:56] <ali1234> or more memory
[08:56] <gord> 1gb memory on my netbook, works great
[08:56] <gord> dual core 1ghz cpu
[08:57] <mistertim> join #liftweb
[08:58] <mistertim> sorry all
[08:58] <mistertim> missed a /
[08:58] <ali1234> highest memory user on my netbook is actually empathy
[08:59] <ali1234> at 127mb
[09:00] <ali1234> does zeitgeist serve any purpose if i don't use unity?
[09:00] <gord> bunch of programs use it
[09:01] <gord> look at your deps
[09:01] <ali1234> i removed it, only thing that got removed with it was unity
[09:01] <ali1234> and a bunch of libraries like libzeitgeist
[09:05] <shauno> dropbox tends to be my biggest memoryfiend :(
[09:09] <bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
[09:09] <kazade> morning bigcalm
[09:13] <HazRPG> shauno: same :(
[09:14] <HazRPG> does natty actually play nice in vbox yet?
[09:15] <shauno> how'd you mean?
[09:15] <HazRPG> or rather does vbox play nice with natty
[09:15] <HazRPG> shauno: well, it was having render issues...
[09:15] <shauno> it works for me, it just doesn't exhibit anything that people are complaining about, because there's zero 3d support
[09:16] <HazRPG> hmm, might have to give it a shot
[09:20] <ali1234> hmm... well firefox maximum memory cache is 29mb... that blows away the "it's caching" theory
[09:20] <HazRPG> ali1234: ?
[09:21] <shauno> firefox has always given me the impression that it likes to pig out on about 80% of whatever's available
[09:22] <HazRPG> shauno: same, I've downloaded ff4 and it seems to at least run the minute you clicked the shortcut/executable
[09:22] <HazRPG> so at least it's a fast hog now :P
[09:23] <shauno> I've not used 4 much, as I can't seem to track down why it always resets geometry back to a screen I'd rather it wasn't on
[09:23] <gord> firefox only using 12% mem here
[09:24] <HazRPG> I don't know where to ask this, but here's as good a place as any I guess... but well, why is it that ubuntu applications don't update as fast as the developers who made said apps push it out
[09:24] <shauno> they're not meant to
[09:24] <HazRPG> I mean I understand ppa's are available to fix that... but well... is there not a way to do it without that?
[09:24] <ali1234> yeah, install gentoo
[09:24] <gord> HazRPG, we build a stable release, just taking developers latest crack leads to an unstable release
[09:24] <shauno> if you google rolling release, you'll find plenty of distros that do track upstream as best they can
[09:25] <gord> thats why there is a 6 month release cycle, so we can build stable releases and you still have pretty new software
[09:25] <ali1234> "stable" doesn't mean "it doesn't crash" like most people mean
[09:25] <oimon> HazRPG: in the olden days we didn't even have PPAs
[09:25] <shauno> I still don't have ppa's.  I came for the predictable release cycle :)
[09:25] <oimon> ali1234: too right. RHEL6 only contains KDE4.3, which is far more buggy than 4.6
[09:25] <ali1234> it means any security fixes will be backported to the current version but not new features
[09:25] <HazRPG> oimon: you make it sound like I'm knew to ubuntu :P
[09:26] <shauno> HazRPG: the basic theory is you grab whatever's new and shiny, but within the realms of supportable.  and then spend most the release cycle polishing it up until it's ready for release day
[09:26] <shauno> instead of grabbing whatever's newest a week before release, and hoping you don't get fired for it
[09:27] <ali1234> the result of this is that the packages are about 6 months to 1 year behind in terms of features
[09:27] <oimon> and there used to be a hideous app called automatix that everyone used to "do an ubuntu mint" after install. however it was discovered that when you upgrade to the next release it completely screws up your system. we've come a long way since then
[09:27]  * gord shudders at the name
[09:27] <oimon> now it's called ubuntu tweak :P
[09:27] <HazRPG> oimon: heh I remember those days, I hated that application >_<
[09:27] <gord> also you may have set off many peoples old notifys ;)
[09:28] <shauno> yeah.  6-12 months old, but in a state where the platform guys believe they can support it going forward
[09:28] <ali1234> if you want to break your system with bleeding edge packages might as well just install gentoo
[09:28] <oimon> i need to keep a tomboy note of all the gconftool tweak i need instead of installing ubuntu tweak
[09:28] <ali1234> or maybe arch is more popular now, i dunno
[09:28] <shauno> gentoo's too crazy.  debian sid can be fun tho :)
[09:29] <HazRPG> ali1234: never been a fan of gentoo... mainly because I found it too cumbersome, and a pain to install
[09:29] <gord> i live on the the latest ubuntu's - sometimes its almost like a rolling release :( not fun
[09:29] <ali1234> the big problem with gentoo is... they never fix bugs in anything, they just upgrade to the new version with new bugs
[09:30] <ali1234> at leas that was the problem when i stopped using it
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> not that Debian is much better, after release
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> or Ubuntu for that matter
[09:30] <HazRPG> well, I guess all these points make sense... and well I did have my suspicions to similar as to why it was done on a ~6 month release cycle, just nice to actually have it confirmed :)
[09:30] <BigRedS> I've had a mostly bug-free Debian existance, really
[09:31] <shauno> I've always felt the two should meet in the middle
[09:32] <shauno> have a core platform released on a sensible schedule, then desktop craziness rolling along on top
[09:32] <HazRPG> shauno: it technically does with LTS
[09:32] <BigRedS> shauno: so Debian Stable & Debian Testing?
[09:32] <ali1234> well you could always install portage on top of lts server
[09:32] <BigRedS> :)
[09:33] <oimon> i have discovered a bug in rh6 that i suspect will continue for the whole 6.x release cycle. similar problems with rh5.x and an intel driver
[09:33] <oimon> 3 yrs with the same killer bug
[09:33] <shauno> oimon: I wish you'd call it rhel, because I remember 5.x from the 90s :)
[09:33] <oimon> me too :P first one i used :)
[09:33] <AlanBell> I was just thinking I have a rather dusty old rh6 book on my bookshelf
[09:33] <HazRPG> shauno: why the el?
[09:34] <oimon> bug in fedora13 = bug for whole rhel6.x series
[09:34] <shauno> HazRPG: that's what it's called now
[09:34] <HazRPG> red hat el?
[09:34] <shauno> redhat is the company, redhat enterprise linux is the product
[09:34] <AlanBell> so they reset the numbering system then?
[09:34] <HazRPG> ah
[09:34] <oimon> AlanBell: i went to the #redhat room on your advice the other day, you should take a look :) it's for the old school rh and still has 30 people in it
[09:35] <shauno> I believe it got to redhat 9 and then split into fedora, rhel, and what not
[09:35] <oimon> #rhel is where they hang out now. but i was more concerned about the 30 still in #redhat
[09:35] <AlanBell> heh, didn't know that
[09:35] <HazRPG> I thought it was just changed to 2 forks, red hat - paid, for businesses (and people who can afford it, etc), and fedora
[09:35] <AlanBell> I only guessed at the channel name
[09:35] <gord> so i just found out we are entering Blue in our eurovision entry this year, apprently its 1998
[09:35] <oimon> called fedora "core" for a while
[09:36] <shauno> HazRPG: kinda
[09:36] <oimon> gord: blue, theb boy band, now man band?
[09:36] <gord> indeed
[09:36] <shauno> HazRPG: I believe the "plan" is that fedora's a playground where they get to beat up new toys, and rhel is the stable product they give to customers that want stability
[09:37] <shauno> from our point of view, the fact that fedora is free turns out to be a bigger point
[09:37] <HazRPG> shauno: I thought fedora was a community effort... a fork of red hat before they went corporate
[09:37] <HazRPG> much like SuSE and openSuSE
[09:38] <BigRedS> also, the idea is that Fedora feels more like a community project, RHEL like a polished 'enterprise' product
[09:38] <BigRedS> and it's supposed to feel that way - Fedora's not trying to be a Centos
[09:38] <shauno> fedora's still largely redhat's thing.  it's not meant to be a "shed The Man" fork
[09:39] <HazRPG> shauno: see that's what I thought it was when I first heard about it about to split off
[09:39] <HazRPG> reviews  back then just made it sound like the community wanted to keep it free and open (in the true sense of the word)
[09:39] <oimon> the problem is that RHEL is often a fedora freeze - so the bugs get frozen too
[09:39] <HazRPG> was about the same time I stopped using red hat... and looked elsewhere
[09:39] <oimon> redhat bugzilla is where bugs never die
[09:40] <HazRPG> for a while didn't have anything linux-based as my main machine because I was testing out the various different waters
[09:40] <HazRPG> I did have DSL on a laptop at one point, just because it was a really really old laptop
[09:40] <oimon> i still use RHEL/Centos a huge amount. it's a good server distro. although i have it on ~150-200 desktops too
[09:41] <HazRPG> oimon: hmm... what is it you do exactly?
[09:41] <shauno> HazRPG: I had bbc-lnx for my main distro for a while.  never again :)
[09:41] <oimon> HazRPG: work in a university
[09:41] <BigRedS> shauno: that sounds... interensting
[09:41] <oimon> HazRPG: fortunately with users who like linux
[09:41] <HazRPG> shauno: surely you mean lnx-bbc?
[09:42] <HazRPG> oimon: nice
[09:42] <BigRedS> oh. I was expecting a micro clone
[09:42] <shauno> I swear it was the other way around.  'business card linux'
[09:42] <HazRPG> oimon: the uni I was at seemed keep to spread the news about linux too... always good to see really :)
[09:42] <HazRPG> keen* (not keep)
[09:42] <oimon> HazRPG: it's amazing how fun computer can be when you don't have to deal with windows problems
[09:43] <shauno> we passed over linux almost entirely at college.  installed rh5 on a desktop, got it on the network, called the job done and never touched it again
[09:43] <oimon> HazRPG: however there are changes afoot...big bosses are calling for "Enterprise Solutions" - which means they want to pay someone loads of money for an oracle system that does half the things a php/mysql system does well
[09:43] <HazRPG> shauno: hmm, I remembered it as lnx-bbc... but then maybe I saw it after a possible name change :S
[09:43] <oimon> shauno: what a missed opportunity :(
[09:43] <shauno> HazRPG: their website seems to agree with you.  I just don't recall ever calling it that
[09:43] <HazRPG> oimon: typical :/
[09:44] <shauno> I used it for a while when I was using garnome as my main desktop.  building the rest of the OS with gar seemed like a good idea at the time :)
[09:44] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, yeah we did that at college too - weirdly
[09:45] <shauno> HazRPG: it was bizarre.  it came and went so fast that nothing really stuck with anyone
[09:45] <shauno> "this is linux.  it can ping the network, see!  next week, moar turbopascal!"
[09:46] <shauno> I don't recall it coming up in exams either.  I think someone was just trying to confuse us
[09:46]  * oimon used solaris exclusively during his degree
[09:46] <HazRPG> well when we were doing it I think we used RH5 or RH6... not sure which, but it was basically "and this is linux, everyone build a machine with these old parts (it was a hardware class just to point out)... and then we'll  be installing red hat onto them..."
[09:47] <shauno> heh.  you didn't go to college in barrow did you?
[09:47] <HazRPG> I asked him about it (the tutor), and he said the main reason was because the techies wouldn't let us use the college windows keys...
[09:47] <HazRPG> shauno: nope, carlisle "tech" college
[09:47] <shauno> that makes a worrying amount of sense :(
[09:48] <HazRPG> cumbria folk ay!
[09:49] <shauno> I ain't cumbria folk :)  I just spent 10 years passing thru
[09:50] <HazRPG> ... you confuse! I wasn't saying you were cumbrian lol
[09:50] <shauno> I ain't no farmer :p
[09:51] <oimon> going to work in a wheelbarrow might beat the congestion charge though
[09:51] <JamesTait> Oh, hi everyone! :D
[09:51] <HazRPG> shauno: tell ya what, I'll give ya the keys to the combine, and we'll see ya drive it - THEN we shall see ;)
[09:51] <HazRPG> JamesTait: hey dude :)
[09:51] <shauno> I've never tried a combine.  I've crashed more than my fair share of jcb's tho
[09:52] <HazRPG> that's a little worrying..
[09:52] <shauno> (and terrified the life out of some poor yank by driving one on the "correct" side of the road)
[09:52] <HazRPG> also, I've drove a tractor as a laugh before... because one of my mates from college lived on a farm (at the time)
[09:53]  * oimon is going on holiday near "diggerland" http://www.diggerland.com/devon/
[09:53] <shauno> I worked on a farm for a summer :)
[09:53] <HazRPG> shauno: xD
[09:53] <shauno> smiley face purely in past tense.  it was hell.
[09:53] <HazRPG> ah that makes sense
[09:53] <HazRPG> ooo arrr ooo arrr
[09:53] <screen-x> shauno: very hard work?
[09:53] <shauno> a very strange farm.  the whole thing was set up as a tax write-off for a retired millionaire
[09:53] <HazRPG> screen-x: didn't involve a computer was the problem ;)
[09:53] <shauno> screen-x: I planted an orchard.  by hand.  they thought it was funny.
[09:54] <screen-x> shauno: you planted an orchard for the lolz?
[09:54] <shauno> for someone else's lolz
[09:54] <HazRPG> screen-x: does sound like that doesn't it :P
[09:54] <HazRPG> shauno: aren't all lolz for someone else's benefit?
[09:54] <screen-x> shauno: seems like a strange reason to pay someone to plan an orchard
[09:55] <shauno> I also crashed a ford f350, two horse trailers (empty), two jcb back-hoes, one "little kabota", and one golf cart
[09:55] <oimon> hmm
[09:55] <screen-x> shauno: are you sure you weren't filming for topgear?
[09:55] <shauno> which taught me a lot about mending split-post fences :(
[09:56]  * HazRPG has a vision of shauno in dungeries trying to fix a fence backwards
[09:56] <oimon> just learned that facebook is only for over 13 year olds
[09:56] <Hornet> heh
[09:56] <screen-x> oimon: oh, I thought it was 16
[09:56] <shauno> screen-x: we ran into a small issue where they simply didn't believe that I couldn't drive.  they all learn at school.
[09:56] <HazRPG> oimon: \o/ free gold star
[09:56] <oimon> i know a lot of under 10s that use it
[09:56] <Hornet> tbh it should be taught at school imo
[09:56] <Hornet> essential skill
[09:57] <shauno> 13 is the cutoff for the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act
[09:57] <HazRPG> oimon: pretty much, I only have it to keep in contact with idiots who are either a) hooked, b) old friends and family
[09:57] <shauno> don't ask me how I know that :)
[09:57]  * oimon has a big family
[09:57] <oimon> tbh its nice to keep in touch with nephews etc, so long as perants police their use of it
[09:57] <shauno> but googling COPPA will render plenty of info on why 13.
[09:57] <diplo> I was an agricultural engineer for 5 years, spent beginning of my career on farms fixing equipment
[09:58] <diplo> Pity it payed so badly otherwise I'd guess I'd still be doin git.
[09:58] <HazRPG> shauno: oh was this in the states? (drivers ed.?)
[09:58] <shauno> HazRPG: yeah  (hence terrifying people by driving on the correct side of the road)
[09:58] <screen-x> http://www.facebook.com/help/contact.php?show_form=underage
[09:59] <shauno> just driving out and about, switching sides is a no-brainer, you automatically try to go with the flow.  when you're out in the middle of nowhere, it's up to muscle memory
[09:59] <screen-x> diplo: what did they use distributed version control for on the farm?
[09:59] <diplo> :)
[09:59] <HazRPG> screen-x: I'm scared to click that link..
[09:59] <HazRPG> shauno: well yeah
[10:00] <screen-x> HazRPG: hmm, its just a form reporting profiles of people who are under 13
[10:00] <directhex> i drove in france about a year after passing my test. was fine
[10:00] <HazRPG> screen-x: I almost pulled him about that (ba-dum-tish)
[10:01] <shauno> directhex: I found it fine when there's traffic.  when there's no traffic at all, I couldn't always promise I'd pull out of a T junction into the right lane
[10:01] <HazRPG> directhex: as shauno said, easy to observe and go with the flow... harder when there's nothing about
[10:02] <directhex> stick to the motorway :p
[10:02] <shauno> gets a tad more funky when you're driving symmetrical vehicles too
[10:02] <oimon> the software may be free but the mugs are pricey http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=828
[10:02] <HazRPG> shauno: you know a vehicle that isn't symmetrical?
[10:02] <shauno> HazRPG: sure.  most passenger vehicles put the driver on one side
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: left/right or top/bottom or front/back symmetrical? :)
[10:03] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I thought he was referring to the overall shape
[10:04] <HazRPG> oimon: gotta make their cash somehow right?
[10:04] <HazRPG> oimon: pens are a bargain though :)
[10:04] <oimon> yeah :)
[10:05] <HazRPG> oimon: I remember getting a stack of those for the office at one point :)
[10:05] <screen-x> everytime someone talks about the canonical shop, it is essential that this is linked to http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=776
[10:05] <HazRPG> screen-x: xD
[10:05] <oimon> no way !
[10:06] <oimon> never noticed that before
[10:06] <HazRPG> screen-x: that product still... to this date... makes no sense to me
[10:06] <screen-x> comedy ubuntu gear
[10:06] <oimon> the meerkat tee is nice
[10:06] <screen-x> someone should wear one to oggcamp (figure permitting)
[10:06] <oimon> i got a kubuntu tshirt previously, because the ubuntu ones were lame at the time
[10:06] <HazRPG> ah crud
[10:06] <HazRPG> totally forgot to buy the meerkat tee
[10:07] <HazRPG> now its out of stock (in medium)
[10:07] <shauno> if I had to, I'd assume they made those for something in particular, and had to satisfy a minimum order.  otherwise.  wtf.
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: buy the XXL, wear it as a dress
[10:07] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ... cos that's not disturbing at all!
[10:07] <shauno> (that said, google's store also sell cycling gear. there may be some nerdocrati joke that I'm simply not privvy to)
[10:08] <oimon> find it a bit odd that there's a womens' tee with launchpad written across the breast
[10:08] <HazRPG> shauno: man-kini? Quite a common joke since borat for some obscure reason :/
[10:08] <shauno> http://www.googlestore.com/Wearables/Classic+Men+s+Bib+Shorts+-+Rasta.axd
[10:08] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: OK, buy the XXL longsleeve hoodie and wear it as a djellaba then
[10:08] <bigcalm> I keep forgetting how to do this in MySQL: I have a few joins going on, but I need records from the 1st table returned even if there are no corrolating records in the joined tables
[10:08] <HazRPG> seems the last 2 festivals I was at (last year and year  before) people were wearing borat man-kini's :/
[10:09] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you go to the wrong festivals (or the right ones, depending on your preference)
[10:09] <oimon> the regular polo shirt is nice too http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=648
[10:09] <MartijnVdS> oimon: I'd only wear that if I worked for canonical and went to their office
[10:09] <oimon> i have a redhat one like it
[10:09] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: if I think your talking about what I think you are... in egypt (and obviously the dialect to which I'm use to) its called a galabaya :)
[10:10] <bigcalm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/585296/
[10:10] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Mainly rock festivals...
[10:10] <oimon> MartijnVdS: you're right though - if you wanted to get past security, it would be a good uniform
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (also djellabah, galabiya, jellāb(a))
[10:10] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: my friend got a face full of Amy Wh**ehouse >_<
[10:11] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: eww!
[10:11] <HazRPG> note, censored on purpose because its note whitehouse
[10:11] <HazRPG> not*
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: wine isn't family-unfriendly 8-)
[10:13] <HazRPG> it is when the ** is "or"
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it would be, yes
[10:13] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ...also, that's a double-negative >_<
[10:13] <HazRPG> lol
[10:13] <bigcalm> LEFT OUTER JOIN!
[10:14] <HazRPG> bigcalm: heh... was about to say
[10:14] <shauno> I swear I can never find a working pen when I need one.  silly outdated tech :(
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Pen? Why would you need a pen if you have fingers & blood of your enemies?
[10:15] <HazRPG> shauno: also the reason I bought a pack of ubuntu pens...
[10:15] <shauno> I can't use ubuntu pens.  no 3d accell :p
[10:15] <HazRPG> ...
[10:15] <HazRPG> lol
[10:16]  * MartijnVdS accelerates a pen in shauno's direction (through 3D space)
[10:16] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ... how do you know so much about muslim attire and speech?
[10:17] <bigcalm> HazRPG: but you didn't say quick enough :P
[10:17] <shauno> random man strikes again!
[10:17] <HazRPG> bigcalm: I was trying to keep up with all the conversations lol
[10:17]  * HazRPG looks behind him
[10:17] <bigcalm> Looks too busy for that this morning
[10:17] <shauno> man I hate phone menus :(
[10:17] <HazRPG> shauno: where!?
[10:17] <shauno> in phones!
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: People are paranoid... "men in djellaba talking on the phone on a train" have been the source of several bomb scares :(
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so I remembered from the news
[10:18] <bigcalm> shauno: you want one button for each task, so no menu?
[10:18] <shauno> not pressing anything no longer means "I don't have a dtmf phone, help!".  it means I wasn't paying attention and need to hear the options again.
[10:18] <HazRPG> shauno: still confused...
[10:18] <bigcalm> Oh, those menus
[10:18] <shauno> instead, I call them over and over again, writing down a breadcrumb trail of the numbers as I go
[10:19] <screen-x> bigcalm: something like left outer join
[10:19] <bigcalm> screen-x: cheers, fixed :)
[10:19] <screen-x> oops, I was scrolled up
[10:19] <bigcalm> ~Living on the ceiling~
[10:20] <bigcalm> I think that it's an Absolute 80s dot com kind of day!
[10:20] <HazRPG> shauno: ... your special :) ...
[10:20] <shauno> apparently I'm not, because I just found my way back to the start of the menu :(
[10:21]  * shauno scratches out the last 3 numbers
[10:21] <HazRPG> xD
[10:21] <HazRPG> shauno: what are you attempting to do?
[10:21] <shauno> talk to my bank
[10:21] <HazRPG> .................
[10:21] <HazRPG> use a local number?
[10:21] <HazRPG> google is my friend for things like that :)
[10:22] <shauno> nah, the locals aren't very useful
[10:22] <HazRPG> I hate 0800 numbers :/ or even 0845 numbers :/
[10:22] <HazRPG> wait, your bank makes you press millions of buttons?
[10:23] <HazRPG> I always feel like I'm on a gameshow whenever I get put onto a "phone menu" system
[10:23] <ging> shauno: can't you find something online to generate the tones you need?
[10:23] <HazRPG> ging: modem love :)
[10:24] <HazRPG> I use to use my modem to prank call people when I was younger
[10:24] <ging> says did you mean modern love ?
[10:24] <HazRPG> (refers to previous comment)
[10:25] <HazRPG> you know, I've been tempted to get this so many times: http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=767
[10:25] <shauno> ging: the tones are no problem.  following the depths of phone menus to try to get exactly the right person is a royal pain in the expletive tho
[10:26] <HazRPG> shauno: mash 0 :)
[10:26] <shauno> thing is, I'm at the other end of one of those at work.  I know how annoying it is to get someone who just mashed buttons and ended up with completely the wrong team
[10:26] <ging> oh i thought you were strugling to get the tones
[10:26] <popey> X3N: ubuntu-uk still OOMing
[10:26] <shauno> no, their menu is just fail.  I ended up 19 options deep
[10:26] <popey> morning all
[10:26] <HazRPG> shauno: always works for me, along with say "stupid menu system!" repeatedly... eventually you'll get transferred to a person that'll transfer you to the right place :)
[10:27] <shauno> HazRPG: that's why I don't do that.  most the time I can't transfer people to the right place.  half the time I have no idea what country / company the right place is in
[10:27] <HazRPG> popey: Out Of Mana?
[10:27] <popey> Memory
[10:27] <shauno> silly mage.
[10:27] <HazRPG> popey: morning :)
[10:27] <HazRPG> shauno: what, I like fire...
[10:27] <HazRPG> shauno: and magic...
[10:28] <shauno> get a warlock then. mages are frost or go home now
[10:28] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, but there will be an option at the start that says "or to be transferred to someone who can help..."
[10:29] <HazRPG> shauno: I would if I still played?
[10:29] <shauno> yeah, that's broken too :)
[10:29] <HazRPG> shauno: what bank? And with which number are you calling? And what are you wanting to achieve?
[10:29] <HazRPG> My google foo might help get you the combinations :)
[10:30] <shauno> here's my number one pet hate with phone menus.  on the weekends, support calls for big customers get routed thru to us (if they're from anywhere within emea / anz / nam / asean).
[10:30] <shauno> if people phone the public number instead of the corporate number, and key in the extension number for MIS, they actually key in the menu sequence to get to us
[10:30] <HazRPG> heh seriously?
[10:31] <shauno> so almost every weekend we get calls from dubai looking for blackberry support. this confuses them more than us.
[10:32] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, that's a cultural thing though... they're telephone systems all use extensions instead of phone menu's
[10:32] <shauno> and they show up for work on weekends.
[10:32] <HazRPG> the only thing (as far as I know) that has a phone menu is mobile phone pay-as-you-go networks
[10:33] <HazRPG> shauno: weekends is Thurs, Fri ;)
[10:33] <HazRPG> Sat is the start of the week
[10:33] <shauno> I know their menus are odd, because if I need to transfer anything to dubai, we have to pick a different phone number for english or arabic
[10:33] <shauno> in theUS, it's just a different menu option for english/spanish
[10:34] <shauno> (and for asean, it doesn't matter because you can guarantee the person you get thru to won't speak english anyway)
[10:34] <shauno> this is why I hate phone menus.  I bear the scars of nortel.
[10:34] <HazRPG> most companies in saudi and the U.A.E. tend to either be, a) One number for both, with a number combination for either (then usually asks for an extension number or 0 for operator), or b) different numbers as you said
[10:35] <shauno> on the other hand, I adore australians
[10:35] <HazRPG> but yeah, weekends vary between arabian countries
[10:36] <shauno> they give us a list of cellphone numbers and tell us to call thru them all in order until we find someone sober enough to take it :)
[10:36] <HazRPG> in Saudi its Thurs & Friday (Friday is the holy day, much like our Sunday)... in Egypt I think its Friday & Saturday... and U.A.E. is the same as saudi I think - but depends on the companies background
[10:37] <shauno> I've a feeling israel is friday & saturday too
[10:37] <HazRPG> usually centred around the Friday, being the day of rest n all
[10:38] <shauno> (in other news, iraq doesn't have weekends)
[10:38] <ali1234> --0
[10:38] <ali1234> ++
[10:38] <directhex> it's friday, friday, the day after thursday?
[10:39] <shauno> anyway, I'm glad I wrote down my breadcrumbs, because I've got to call back.   buahaha.  I won.
[10:40] <HazRPG> shauno: my dad only gets Friday off in Saudi... and a half-day on Thurs (but it's a longer shift, it's a 8am-6pm... as opposed to his normal 9am-2pm, then 5pm-9pm)
[10:40]  * oimon might have to find another job :(
[10:41] <HazRPG> oimon: why?
[10:41] <oimon> just received news of the impending IT strategy handing down by our fascist dictators
[10:41] <screen-x> shauno: the americans seem to think that iraq have friday-saturday as the weekend http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1144.html
[10:41] <screen-x> oimon: all opensource from now on?
[10:41] <oimon> they are going to completely destroy the excellent open source infrastructure to replace with micrsoft and oracle products
[10:41] <shauno> screen-x: I've never had a call from iraq that was from an iraqi.  seems most the "visitors" work to a different timescale
[10:42] <screen-x> oimon: very expensive comfortable chairs for all?
[10:42] <popey> erk
[10:42] <popey> oimon: you work at a uni?
[10:42] <screen-x> oimon: thats not sounds so good :(
[10:42] <oimon> yes
[10:42] <popey> :(
[10:43] <oimon> decisions have been made without consideration for the facts
[10:43] <screen-x> oimon: are they building an extension to house all the extra windows servers you will need?
[10:43] <oimon> and some numpty has looked at a list of top sellng apps and decided thats what we need
[10:43] <oimon> screen-x: yes, although it will get very hot as they will be blade servers
[10:44] <screen-x> sounds like an expensive project
[10:44] <oimon> yes
[10:44] <oimon> all to reduce what we have now to dust
[10:44] <screen-x> Aren't universities supposed to be strapped for cash these days?
[10:44] <HazRPG> oimon: ouch...
[10:44]  * oimon is sad
[10:44] <seeker> Linux is great, but when it takes2 hours to change a graphics card I wonder why I bother
[10:45] <jpds> seeker: Try opening your box faster.
[10:45] <seeker> jpds: :P physical swap took 30 seconds
[10:45] <popey> i wonder why seeker bothers too
[10:46] <seeker> Mainly because I can't find anything to replace mythtv with
[10:46] <oimon> apparently iptables offers better features than other firewalls but should not be used because it is difficult to support. we are surrounded by bearded linux gurus!
[10:48] <jpds> oimon: Don't you have some formal compliant channel you can bounce this too?
[10:49]  * screen-x wonders if seeker and cking have a common mission
[10:50] <cking> eh?
[10:51] <screen-x> cking: I read your nick as "seeking",  so I wondered if you were looking for the same thing as seeker..
[10:51] <oimon> jpds: it's all coming right from the top.
[10:52] <DJones> screen-x: I always think helicopter when is see cking's nick
[10:52] <cking> ah, cking is just short for colin king ;-)
[10:53] <cking> but I am always seeking ways to fix things
[10:53] <screen-x> :)
[10:54] <daubers> Hmmm.... I have what could be a long meeting on the 31st now. Might need someone to raise some meeting points for me
[10:56] <oimon> where's a good place to buy solid state drives?
[10:57] <directhex> i just use scan.co.uk for things
[10:57] <directhex> although i have an SSD in my amazon wishlist, for kind passers-by
[10:57] <oimon> directhex: i was just looking on scan and insight
[11:00] <oimon> directhex: which one's on your list?
[11:01] <directhex> an ocz vertex
[11:01] <directhex> for price reasons. intel drives are best, but cost more
[11:02] <screen-x> stupid flash question, why doesn't performance scale linearly with capacity? Is this because of the controllers limitations?
[11:03] <directhex> screen-x, depends on the type of flash used
[11:03] <directhex> screen-x, thers's MLC and SLC
[11:04] <directhex> SLC would scale with capacity, controller allowing
[11:05] <screen-x> I was looking at the ocz vertex 90gb and 120gb have the same IOPS and read/write speeds. But they are MLC.
[11:06]  * oimon notices that capacities of SSD are weirdly numbered
[11:07] <screen-x> howso oimon?
[11:09] <directhex> screen-x, you can't afford SLC.
[11:09] <screen-x> heh intel's 510 series SSDs have an MTBF of ~130 years, that should be enough to pursuade coporations to buy them.
[11:12] <popey> Ng: pls to be looking at bug 742380
[11:12] <popey> also Daviey
[11:12] <popey> and maybe Laney too :)
[11:12]  * Daviey opens
[11:13] <Daviey> popey, logon -> then change keyboard prefs?  or change login prefs and re-login?
[11:13] <popey> the thing I am trying to get fixed is the ~` key on my keyboard does <>
[11:13]  * daubers wonders where his eval SSDs have got to
[11:13] <daubers> Still not turned up :(
[11:13] <Daviey> popey, i have a hack for that :)
[11:13] <popey> i get it when i login
[11:13] <popey> i dont want a hack :)
[11:13] <Daviey> popey, xmodmap
[11:13] <popey> I want it fixed
[11:14] <popey> there is a macbook pro keyboard layout in the keyboard preferences, it should work damnit
[11:14] <Daviey> aye... my main reasons for having the hack is because i want a slightly different layout to what is printed on the keyboard
[11:14] <Daviey> but yes, it should work
[11:15] <shauno> popey: does it specify it's an en_GB mbp layout?
[11:16] <shauno> (just curious.  while the mac layout is more USian than the pc-gb layout, it's not the same as the US mac layout)
[11:16] <popey> there are two options
[11:17] <popey> macbook pro and macbook pro intl
[11:17] <shauno> ah, ok.  we should be intl
[11:17] <Daviey> popey, gonna restart X to see.
[11:17] <popey> shauno: same issue occurs
[11:17] <shauno> popey: file a bug :p
[11:18] <shauno> I might actually have a play with that one.  new laptop coming, so I'll have a chance to be silly with this one
[11:18]  * popey points shauno to the last 5 minutes
[11:19] <shauno> aw, there goes my shot at being funny :(
[11:20] <shauno> 7,1 is the same layout as mine tho, that's one I could bash out
[11:20] <Daviey> popey, yup.. same issue
[11:21] <ubuntuuk-planet> [James Tait] Hacking on txamqp for fun and profit - http://voices.canonical.com/james.tait/2011/03/25/hacking-on-txamqp-for-fun-and-profit/
[11:22] <shauno> or rather, it's the same layout mine should be :/
[11:24] <s-fox> Hello
[11:24] <shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/layout.jpg   ;)
[11:25] <screen-x> morning shauno
[11:25] <Daviey> popey, I didn't see the error activating the mac layout... but i already had it as an option
[11:25] <Daviey> i think i'd need to delete it and re-add it
[11:26] <Daviey> popey, so we have the international layout?
[11:27] <shauno> I believe so.  macbook US has no key between Lshift and Z
[11:28] <shauno> if the key left of 1 is backtick, you've got the US variant.  otherwise is international
[11:29] <popey> Daviey: i have literally no idea :)
[11:29] <popey> we have the super useful key next to 1
[11:29] <shauno> I wondered what that symbol was.
[11:29] <shauno> §uperuseful!
[11:29] <popey> i have never used either of them
[11:30] <davmor2> morning all
[11:30] <oimon> ¬ << what is this symbol?
[11:30]  * popey tickles davmor2 
[11:30] <screen-x> oimon: not?
[11:30] <shauno> oimon: I've only ever used that as a line continuation
[11:30] <jpds> oimon: sudo apt-get install unicode; unicode ¬
[11:30]  * davmor2 not being ticklish just stares at popey
[11:31] <screen-x> oimon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_logic_symbols
[11:31]  * oimon has a maths degree :P
[11:31] <screen-x> oimon: apologies
[11:31] <oimon> should have remembered that.
[11:31] <Daviey> popey, I tried to guess looking at the keyboard map... and both seem inaccurate :)
[11:31] <davmor2> popey: you got uplink and darwinia installed on your ubuntu box yet?
[11:32] <oimon> screen-x: it's been a while since i though of NOT being anything other than !=
[11:32] <Daviey> popey, i made the super useful key map to  #.. as i actually use it :)
[11:32] <popey> davmor2: i have had them for years
[11:32] <oimon> we create really evil pwgen passwords for people.
[11:33] <davmor2> popey: :P You would :)#
[11:33] <oimon> however i realsed that backtick ` doesn't exist on some keyboards
[11:33] <popey> i paid for it a while ago
[11:33] <screen-x> oimon: is that to ensure that post-it notes are used?
[11:33] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:34] <oimon> they are temporary wifi passwords for visitors
[11:34] <screen-x> ah
[11:34] <davmor2> popey: I know,  but really real games in USC games that real people might of heard of :)
[11:35] <HazRPG> brobostigon: morning :)
[11:35] <oimon> that game subversion (by the darwinia people) is still being written :S
[11:35] <popey> oh, they're in the store davmor2 ?
[11:35] <davmor2> popey: Oh yes, along with crossover office demo
[11:35] <directhex> oimon, they take their time
[11:35] <brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning :)
[11:35] <popey> neato
[11:36] <gord> i'v never seen anything in the ubuntu for purchase thing =\ stupid non released versions
[11:36] <popey> hmmm
[11:36] <popey> i cant actually see how to get to USC in unity
[11:36] <popey> also "Find ...rnet Apps" looks rubbish
[11:36] <gord> known
[11:36] <popey> cool
[11:36] <popey> where is USC?
[11:37] <oimon> one for popey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQMBGLMtdFE&feature=player_embedded
[11:37] <gord> just type software centre?
[11:37] <popey> i want an icon
[11:37] <gord> its in your launcher by default iirc
[11:37] <popey> i dont want to have to type everything
[11:37] <popey> not in my launcher
[11:38] <gord> popey, i used the combo box to change to system, its right there in the system applications
[11:38] <gord> or you can just click the system indicator thingy to go to the control centre
[11:38] <popey> oh, i thought you meant in my launcher in the left
[11:38] <popey> system indicator!?
[11:38] <gord> well on new installs i think its in the left launcher (springboard?) by default
[11:39] <gord> popey, what you click to turn off the computer
[11:39] <popey> springboard!?
[11:39] <popey> can you seriously stop changing the name of stuff!
[11:39] <gord> don't blame me :(
[11:39] <popey> the shutdown thing has no store link
[11:39] <davmor2> popey: not for natty yet only maverick
[11:39] <gord> popey, system settings
[11:39] <popey> ok, in that
[11:39] <popey> ahhhh
[11:39] <popey> thank you
[11:40] <popey> seems like a duff place to put it
[11:40] <popey> ooooo i have 6 new recommendations
[11:40] <gord> well you can just use the places (lenses now!) to get to basically the same thing
[11:41] <gord> just open the applications place (lens) and use the drop down box to select system
[11:41] <popey> doesnt show up in system
[11:41] <popey> oh, "11 more results"
[11:41] <popey> thats 5 clicks to get to USC
[11:42] <gord> well like i said, its in the launcher by default on install
[11:42] <popey> interesting, wonder why it isnt for me
[11:42] <popey> because I upgraded?
[11:42] <gord> maybe - i think it ports old favourites from unity 10.10 so if you had a few of those laying about
[11:42]  * popey adds it to comply with THEY WHO MUST BE OBEYED
[11:42] <popey> ahhh
[11:43] <popey> ok, so onto the fun that is "6 new recommendations"
[11:43] <popey> Dolphin - kde file manager - no thank you, i have a file manager
[11:43] <gord> my recommendations are just things i had installed once...
[11:43] <popey> File Manager - uh, I have one
[11:43] <popey> Amarok and Amarok
[11:44] <Daviey> gord, Stop wasting time on this... and get 2d unity working kkthnxbye.
[11:44] <popey> :)
[11:44] <gord> Daviey, i don't work on 2d unity kkthnxbye :P
[11:44]  * popey cuddles gord 
[11:45] <Daviey> gord, rethink your life, and priorities.
[11:46] <Daviey> Recently, at an airport.. after a really tiring week... A Debian Developer walked up to me, and asked me "Why do you exist?"
[11:46] <Daviey> What sort of answer can you possibly give to that?
[11:47] <popey> "to make your stuff work"
[11:47] <gord> the featured apps in usc is pretty good, wish it was more like the android market visually though, but the selection is good
[11:47] <Daviey> popey, I wasn't quite sure if he was talking about me personally, or Ubuntu :)
[11:47] <X3N> does osc start up in a timely fashion yet?
[11:48] <gord> fast enough for me, but my machine isn't a good testbed
[11:48] <X3N> takes 9 seconds on my i5
[11:49] <popey> by way of comparison the app store on ipad takes ~10 seconds
[11:50] <popey> and the app store on my osx takes about 8
[11:50] <screen-x> software centre takes less then a second to open here :D (10.04)
[11:50] <oimon> how can you choose unity 2d/3d/classic if you have no login password enabled?
[11:50] <Daviey> X3N, I just tried it - and exited out as soon as the window opened... took real	0m12.335s
[11:50] <popey> oimon: logout
[11:50] <gord> popey, really? wow - oh wait it takes forever on android too :D
[11:51] <popey> heh
[11:51] <popey> actually it went directly to an app i bought
[11:51] <popey> lemme kill it and start again
[11:51] <X3N> takes 7 seconds on my android
[11:51] <oimon> popey: logout?
[11:51] <gord> my phone is getting kinda old and underpowered for android - i keep seeing these fancy "threee deee" games
[11:51] <ali1234> osc? the obs client?
[11:51] <X3N> but it was probably pull data over 4g
[11:51] <gord> never gonna get those to run
[11:51] <popey> yeah, 9-10 seconds
[11:51] <oimon> the session chooser only appears when u ask for password
[11:51] <popey> over wifi
[11:52]  * screen-x installs a stopwatch from software centre to time ios appstore launch
[11:52] <X3N> ali1234: i meant usc
[11:52] <Daviey> X3N, wow, took over 15 Mississippi's on my android.
[11:52] <X3N> osc on the mind :|
[11:52] <ali1234> oh
[11:52] <popey> Obunto!
[11:52] <Daviey> i'm sure it's not normally that slow.
[11:52] <hoover> hi folks
[11:52] <ali1234> well it could be worse, it could be hildon-application-manager
[11:52] <gord> honestly... i don't use the android market anymore. just go to http://market.android.com - its nicer
[11:53] <screen-x> 26 seconds to load app store app (ios4, iphone 3g)
[11:53] <popey> wheee, I'm on a roll today
[11:53]  * popey files another bug
[11:53] <Daviey> gord, wow, i did not know you could install from the webui
[11:53] <popey> bug 742398
[11:54] <ali1234> ham takes literally 10 minutes to load up
[11:54] <gord> Daviey, yeah its really nice :)
[11:54] <ali1234> on n900
[11:54] <ali1234> and it gets slower as the maemo repos get bigger
[11:54] <gord> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-25-amazon-accused-of-3ds-delivery-failure :(
[11:56] <Daviey> gord, i am massively impressed.
[11:56] <oimon> USC, and ubuntuone control centre are some of the nicest looking apps around
[11:56] <gord> Daviey, people already taking advantage of it, you can install an app on your phone when you lose it, then that app will make a noise :)
[11:57] <Daviey> hah!  That is neat..
[11:57] <screen-x> gord: you can get the app to start once it's been installed?
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> gord: nice thing about Android: you can remote-install apps through market.android.com :)
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> screen-x: autostarting services on cloud-to-device message, easy
[11:58] <gord> screen-x, seems so, applications that are like services
[11:58] <gord> its all jabber based so you can do stuff remotely
[11:59] <Gary> hey everyone, whatyadoin'
[12:00] <DJones> welcome back Gary You seem you have been missing for ages
[12:00] <Gary> yeah, RL gets int he way eh
[12:01] <DJones> Heh
[12:02]  * popey tickles Gary till he pukes
[12:02] <gord> anyone want two months of love film for free? http://lovefilm.com/share T8N4FM9HB
[12:05] <Nafallo> I dont believe in free things
[12:05] <hoover> best things in life are free, anyway ;-)
[12:05] <shauno> I don't believe in free things that don't deliver to RoI ;)
[12:06] <gord> lovefilm is pretty good, i use it all the time to stream movies
[12:08]  * Gary licks popey 
[12:08] <DJones> ewww
[12:09] <oimon> get a room!
[12:10] <Nafallo> this is a room :-)
[12:12] <directhex> it's a channel
[12:12] <directhex> also, it's Nafallo!
[12:12] <Nafallo> :-)
[12:12] <Nafallo> hi directhex
[12:13] <Gary> oimon: it was only a lick, I'm sure I could do worse
[12:15] <oimon> the other week we had 170 people in here...what happened
[12:16] <DJones> oimon: Clones :)
[12:18] <DJones> Hows things Gary, I guess you've been busy
[12:19] <Gary> DJones: yes, been very busy, we've moved a server room and refurbished the building
[12:23] <brobostigon> and i am really sorry about lastnight, i was reallt aggitated. my apologies.
[12:24] <DJones> Gary: Ouch, must have quite time consuming & a lot of questions, where does this cable go?
[12:28] <Gary> DJones: yeah, esp as the network had grown organically (read "mess") for the last fifteen odd years, there was still coax networking cable sitting about, along with the worst structured cabling ever
[12:28] <Gary> we found a few servers under the caling spaggetti
[12:29] <DJones> Heh, servers you didn't know about?
[12:29] <BigRedS> heh. we had to do that once when we ran another 20 cat5 lines and the ceiling collapsed :)
[12:30] <DJones> Or just servers you could ping & knew existed but didn't know the location
[12:30] <Gary> BigRedS: we pulled out a full sized skip full of compressed cabling
[12:31] <Gary> (ie we compressed it/bundled it up neatly before putting it in the skip, it still filled it)
[12:31] <oimon> Gary: where do u work?
[12:31] <Gary> oimon: a small marketing company in essex
[12:31] <Daviey> Gary looks after the IT equipment for hell..  He reports directly to the devil. ;)
[12:33] <oimon> i still come across weird coax cabling that uses vampire connectors
[12:33] <oimon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_tap
[12:33] <Gary> Daviey: no no, I left hell in Nottingham, I'm just in hells backyard now
[12:34] <oimon> the yellow cable still exists in some offices and i tell staff never to touch them or they might lose their net connection ;)
[12:34] <Gary> OMG, woman just walked past with the brightest red dyed hair ever!
[12:34] <oimon> well you are in essex Gary
[12:34] <Gary> true
[12:35]  * Gary tickles Davieywavey
[12:35] <DJones> Gary: She must have long leg, she stands outside my office in poynton having a smoke a few times a day
[12:36] <Gary> we have windows now!  (IT used to be hidden in the dark, next to a badly accousticly insulated server room
[12:36] <Daviey> Gary, heh
[12:36] <Daviey> Gary, Do you still have your red hot poker?
[12:36] <Gary> only for you Daviey
[12:36] <Daviey> !ohmy > Gary
[12:37] <Gary> when are you going to leave your (lovely) missus and be mine?
[12:37]  * Gary hides
[12:38]  * oimon notes the tone of the room has dropped somewhat
[12:40] <Gary> yeah, sorry, I'll get back to work :'(
[12:41] <Daviey> Gary, I'll ask her for a good time!
[12:55]  * czajkowski hugs Gary and goes back to hiding 
[12:56] <oimon> hmm "Users of the ad-supported version of Spotify were hit by a malware-based attack on Thursday"
[12:56] <popey> nice
[12:56] <popey> and
[12:57] <popey> Jabber \o/
[12:57] <MattJ> Jabber \o/
[12:57] <ali1234> oimon: link pls
[12:57] <oimon> www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/spotify_malvertisement_attack/
[12:57] <oimon> it's friday lunchtime, so it must be el reg
[12:58] <oimon> 5 mins into lunch and i've already reported a fresh natty bug
[13:00] <popey> oimon: bug no?
[13:01] <oimon> well it's a crash actually :P
[13:02] <oimon> 742427
[13:02] <popey> bug 742427
[13:02] <popey> private bug?
[13:02]  * popey larts launchpad devs
[13:02] <oimon> for the mo i assume until apport retracing has done it's dirty work
[13:02] <popey> yeah
[13:03] <oimon> probably 100 other dupes that are private too ;)
[13:14] <hoover> have a nice weekend all
[13:42] <oimon> i told tmobile they provide a poor data & voice signal for the entirety of my train journey. thought they might like to know.  it turns out they weren't interested
[13:44] <brobostigon> :(
[13:44] <Ng> popey: hrm (re that bug), I haven't natty'd yet
[13:45] <oimon> i thought tube line/national rail interchanges might be a good place to provide a phone signal
[13:47] <czajkowski> popey: did you want something in natty verified ?
[13:47] <HazRPG> oimon: mobile phone companies never seem to like it when I say they have a black spot for signal :/
[13:47] <davmor2> popey: it's technically an issue with the way that apport reports it,  Apport by default assumes you were doing something private and until the retrace is done leaves the bug in private mode, making it public once it knows there is no highly secure data on it iirc
[13:48] <popey> no davmor2 its a launchpad issue
[13:48] <HazRPG> normally I wouldn't bother, but that black spot just so happens to be my house, and it worked fine when I first went with them :/
[13:48] <popey> i have discussed this at length with Robert Collins
[13:48] <oimon> HazRPG: it's strange, because as a service provider, i'd like to know  - it potentially affects revenue generation.
[13:48] <davmor2> popey: interesting :)
[13:48] <popey> the "issue" being that the bot can't tell that it's a private bug or a non-existent bug
[13:48] <popey> because launchpad reports back that private bugs do not exist
[13:49] <popey> so that lp doesn't reveal details that should be secure
[13:49] <popey> the bots _used_ to report "Private bug" which is fine
[13:49] <davmor2> popey: I see
[13:49] <oimon> HazRPG: the blackspot i am thinking of caters for many hundreds of people waiting around for 30 mins at any point in the day from 7am-12pm
[13:49] <popey> I am unhappy that private bugs are reported as "non existent"
[13:49] <davmor2> talking at cross purposes
[13:50] <czajkowski> hmm waht ever way things are behaving I cant open another terminal as when I click on terminal I get close terminal, but no way to open more or even a tab
[13:50] <popey> yes :)
[13:50] <gord> czajkowski, unity?
[13:50] <popey> czajkowski: middle click
[13:50] <oimon> middle click
[13:50] <oimon> :P
[13:50] <czajkowski> gord: yes
[13:50] <popey> :)
[13:50] <czajkowski> popey: touch pad on the laptop no mouse
[13:50] <popey> yes
[13:50] <HazRPG> oimon: heh, typical :P
[13:51] <popey> 3 fingers?
[13:51] <popey> or is it a rubbish laptop?
[13:51] <czajkowski> oh you rock
[13:51]  * czajkowski hugs popey 
[13:51] <popey> :D
[13:51]  * czajkowski kicks unity 
[13:51] <gord> also ctrl+shift+n in gnome terminal i think
[13:51] <hamitron> :)
[13:51]  * czajkowski removes all cake from gord as he's the closest one around me 
[13:51] <HazRPG> oimon: still haven't managed to get anywhere with 3 for mine though... I'm wanting my PAC (MAC?) code so that I can move it, apparently I have to wait for it :/
[13:51] <Myrtti> new trousers AND jeans ♥ H&M mail order, I love you
[13:51] <popey> \o/ H&M
[13:51] <gord> or just alt+f2 and type "terminal"
[13:51] <davmor2> czajkowski: or you could go file new window on global menu :P
[13:51] <czajkowski> davmor2: it wont let me
[13:51] <czajkowski> :(
[13:51] <popey> gord: that fails
[13:52] <gord> popey, let it load
[13:52] <popey> i have
[13:52] <popey> it has returned one result
[13:52] <popey> "terminal"
[13:52] <oimon> HazRPG: i'm supposed to have network sharing with orange enabled. it's strange that there's never any coverage where t-mob don't cover - unless they all slap their antennas on the same building?
[13:52] <gord> eh i'm being think, alt+f2 is the run dialog so yeah gnome-terminal
[13:52] <gord> lemmealone :(
[13:52] <popey> :D
[13:52]  * popey tickles gord 
[13:53] <popey> er
[13:53] <popey> ALT+F2, gnome-terminal
[13:53] <popey> click it
[13:53] <popey> where do you get dumped?
[13:53]  * popey gets put in /
[13:53] <popey> this seems sub-optimal to me
[13:53] <davmor2> czajkowski: why could you do Ctrl+shift+t  for a new tab or did it need to be a completely fresh terminal?
[13:53] <HazRPG> Myrtti: \o/
[13:53] <popey> ew tabs in terminal windows should die in a fire
[13:53] <oimon> ctrl-shift-n for new terminal too
[13:53] <czajkowski> I dont like tabs in terminals
[13:53] <gord> popey, known bug
[13:53] <czajkowski> I admin I am slightly odd ok. it';s just me
[13:53] <popey> ta gord
[13:54] <gord> whoever asked for tabbed terminals should of been shot long ago
[13:54] <HazRPG> oimon: wouldn't shock me
[13:54] <davmor2> czajkowski: it would of solved you're temporary issue though :P
[13:54] <shauno> I don't mind tabs, I just don't want to see them.  I like my terminal chromeless.
[13:55]  * oimon used to use tabs in konsole, but never gnome-terminal
[13:55]  * oimon also remembers he used to use yakauake a lot
[13:55] <BigRedS> I don't think I've ever wanted a tabbed terminal
[13:55] <gord> i tend to end up just using my second monitor for a wall of terminator terminals, works nicely
[13:56] <shauno> if I need to do something local, I find it easier to pop open a tab, instead of having a remote screen nested in a local screen
[13:56] <shauno> I just don't like the tab bar to be visible
[13:57] <shauno> (or the scrollbar, or the menubar .. but gnome-terminal lets you turn those off :)
[13:57] <HazRPG> I don't mind the tabbed terminals so much, its nice to have it there if you ever need them
[13:57] <HazRPG> having two screens though, I tend to just cake them with terminals though
[13:57] <BigRedS> I generally have terminator, and then some large number of xterms that I've run 'host' or somethign in and then alt-tabbed away from
[13:57] <HazRPG> plus mod4+T ftw!
[13:59] <popey> UH-OH!
[13:59] <popey> Dominos Pizza now accepts paypal!
[14:00]  * screen-x freezes popey's paypal assets
[14:00] <oimon> popey: from the command line?
[14:00] <gord> for the good of the nation, pizza places should not do online ordering. i don't even like pizza hut but i sometimes get it if i'm working late :(
[14:01] <popey> oimon: hmm?
[14:01] <shauno> you've not seen that?
[14:01] <oimon> http://hackedgadgets.com/2008/06/09/order-dominos-pizza-via-command-line/
[14:01] <popey> haha
[14:01] <gord> iirc you could order pizza from world of warcraft. maybe ubuntu should come with something like that by default
[14:02] <gord> could even make the ubuntu logo out of pizza
[14:04] <oimon> www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/confidentiality_of_census_data_not_guaranteed
[14:04] <oimon> sorry for multiple reg links in one day, but all the good articles get saved till friday
[14:05] <czajkowski> aye which have been on twitter a lot of the day :)
[14:07] <oimon> me needs to widen his twitter usage
[14:08] <oimon> didn't realise there was useful stuff on it :P
[14:14] <AlanBell> gord: I have thought about making such a pizza
[14:15] <gord> would prefer a cake if people are making ubuntu based confectionaries
[14:15] <shauno> I believe pizza to be the sensible option.  covers more food groups :)
[14:15]  * brobostigon has ginger beer, :)
[14:16] <brobostigon> interesting idea.
[14:16] <oimon> doesn't look too appetizing http://technology.desktopnexus.com/get/349660
[14:16] <shauno> :(  someone didn't enable Universe
[14:17] <DJones> brobostigon: I've started getting a taste for Crabbies alcoholic ginger ale/beer
[14:17] <brobostigon> DJones: i like aswell, it nice isnt it.
[14:18] <DJones> brobostigon: Yes, leaves a slight bruning feeling in your mouth
[14:18] <brobostigon> DJones: bruning?
[14:18] <DJones> burning
[14:19] <brobostigon> oh, alittle,
[14:19] <brobostigon> yes.
[14:20] <oimon> i have a dandelion and burdock waiting for me in the fridge
[14:21] <Myrtti> aw damnit
[14:21] <Myrtti> I forgot my d&b sodastreamer concentrate at home :-(
[14:21] <screen-x> sodastream, oldschool :)
[14:21] <brobostigon> :(
[14:22] <oimon> wonder if wifey fancies making me another tux cake again
[14:22] <oimon> best cake ever
[14:24] <AlanBell> o/ issyl0
[14:27]  * daubers beats pyinotify with a stick
[14:36] <brobostigon> got gpu lockup again, so gone back to vesa. :(
[14:43] <bigcalm> Drum & Bass Sodastream? ;)
[14:43] <moreati> popey: http://hackaday.com/2011/03/25/kinect-minecraft-trifecta/
[14:52] <popey> moreati: wow
[14:57] <davmor2> moreati: nice,  you post mincraft here and unity insults on #wolveslug :P
[14:58]  * czajkowski prods davmor2 
[14:58] <moreati> davmor2: i play to the crowd
[15:00] <davmor2> czajkowski: thanks love you too :P
[15:02] <czajkowski> I'd not poke you in a long time, I felt it was over due
[15:03]  * davmor2 whacks czajkowski with a rubber baseball bat
[15:04] <czajkowski> I poke you and whack, hardly seems very fair!
[15:05] <davmor2> czajkowski: it was a toy rubber baseball bat it's not like it hurt
[15:05] <hamitron> czajkowski: you play any comp games?
[15:06] <hamitron> specifically, rugby ones
[15:06] <hamitron> or anyone else for that matter
[15:06]  * AlanBell sends davmor2 to therapy to deal with his issues of violence
[15:07]  * AlanBell arranges consecutive appointment for czajkowski 
[15:07] <czajkowski> hamitron: nope I follow/adore rugby though
[15:07] <shauno> I've not seen any rugby games.  I thought it wasn't "the done thing" to trivialize such a topic
[15:07] <czajkowski> AlanBell: careful we;d meet and kill one another
[15:07] <hamitron> czajkowski: that is why I thought you may have tried the games, if you were a gamer :)
[15:07]  * davmor2 sends AlanBell to Wolverhampton then you'll understand the violence :D
[15:08] <hamitron> shauno: there are a few, just not sure which to try
[15:09] <hamitron> manager stuff and the other kind where you "control" the players
[15:09] <AlanBell> davmor2: been there already, no plans to go again
[15:09] <AlanBell> I am off to Milton Keynes area on Monday though
[15:10] <AlanBell> only two hours until some people buy some consumer electronics gadget
[15:10] <hamitron> what gadget?
[15:10] <czajkowski> is that why popey is quiet, is he queuing :)
[15:10] <davmor2> AlanBell: That's my point,  rubber baseball bat attacks aren't violent,  Machine pistols, shotgun and machete attacks they are violent :D
[15:10] <shauno> I tried to get a new ipad.  3-4 weeks to ship online.  bugger that for a game of daisies
[15:11] <Tommeh> Weird. Playing music gives a bit of crackling in the background - be it Flash, spotify (linux) or Rythmbox... To stop it, all I have to do is close the app, or open and close the sound preferences dialogue 0_o
[15:11] <gord> i forget what it was that was much different in the ipad 2. did it have a bigger resolution or something?
[15:11] <shauno> mostly just the camera.  I swore off the first one until I could skype on it
[15:11] <hamitron> the version number is twice as big
[15:11] <hamitron> therefore better
[15:12] <AlanBell> davmor2: I just decided not to say what I was going to say about a rubber baseball bat
[15:12] <hamitron> ;)
[15:12] <davmor2> AlanBell: I didn't want to hurt czajkowski  the aim is too annoy :)
[15:13] <czajkowski> we love one another really
[15:13] <AlanBell> a worthy aim indeed
[15:13] <czajkowski> just for folks who dont know us ;)
[15:14] <AlanBell> on the subject of violence, here is some proprietary software vendors showing us how to behave professionally http://bcgurus.com/_webapp_1414611/Business_Catalyst_Partners_Take_Aim_at_Joomla_Drupal_and_WordPress
[15:15] <AlanBell> and a fitting response http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljNZM5Yx0GM
[15:16] <screen-x> AlanBell: video has been taken down :(
[15:16] <AlanBell> heh
[15:16] <AlanBell> most of it is in the response anyway
[15:17] <hamitron> is 68MB/s good for a flash drive?
[15:17] <screen-x> ah yes, just watching
[15:17] <hamitron> I get mixed up with bits and bytes
[15:18] <AlanBell> gord: I believe the device itself is thinner and lighter and has slightly better graphics chip or something
[15:19] <AlanBell> gord: fundamentally the big feature is that at 6PM if you still have the old one then everyone will know that you are the type of person that still has the old one
[15:20] <BigRedS> ipad?
[15:20] <BigRedS> Also, AlanBell that first video is down, but does look interesting
[15:21] <popey> Also, people using iPads are getting on with using iPads and not asking "What's the best Android tablet to buy"
[15:21] <Myrtti> mmmm cough medicine
[15:21] <hamitron> that is the best thing about apple imo
[15:21] <hamitron> no hassle, you just get THE product
[15:22] <popey> yeah, but it's evil closed source
[15:22] <popey> oh, hang on
[15:22] <popey> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/24/google_will_not_open_source_android_honeycomb_on_release_of_first_devices/
[15:23] <BigRedS> yeah, the hoops I was jumpingh through last night to unbreak my android phone have put me off getting another
[15:23] <BigRedS> but there's nothing else, really to go for
[15:23] <popey> http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/android_tablets/
[15:23] <hamitron> tbh, all this complication and lock down is just causing me to lose interest in technology as a whole
[15:23] <popey> lots of options
[15:23] <hamitron> they will end up killing it
[15:23] <popey> "it"?
[15:24] <popey> and "they" :)
[15:24] <shauno> open source on mobile platforms strikes me as mostly moot point, until they stop leaving the carrier with the last word
[15:24] <hamitron> the makers will kill the interest of enthusiasts
[15:24] <hamitron> (spelling)
[15:24] <BigRedS> that's the thing. The hoops I was jumping through were on the way to as close to stock android as I could get
[15:25] <gord> AlanBell, ah right the graphics chip and thinner, i remember now - interesting that they didn't go for more though
[15:25] <hamitron> what we need is some open hardware
[15:25] <popey> hahahahaah
[15:25] <popey> yeah, that went well for openmoko
[15:25] <BigRedS> heh. that's been tried
[15:26] <BigRedS> hardware is so much more expensive than software
[15:26] <AlanBell> how is pandora going?
[15:26] <shauno> the hardware's really not the problem so much atm.  you still have the carrier telling you what you're allowed to do with it
[15:27] <oimon> BigRedS: which phone do u have
[15:27] <screen-x> shauno: I get the impression HTC wouldn't sign the firmware unless pressured.
[15:27] <hamitron> suppose the carriers need to make sure it isn't used too much
[15:27] <shauno> I still haven't figured out how O2 manage to bill me separately for tethered data :/
[15:28] <BigRedS> oimon: Galaxy S
[15:28] <screen-x> shauno: they do?
[15:28] <shauno> they do here  (o2.ie and o2 are different companies, so I've no idea how well it translates)
[15:29] <screen-x> shauno: do they tell you how many MB of each you've used per month?
[15:29] <shauno> oh, O2 uk is telefonica too .. I thought it was BT  (kinda outta date :)
[15:29] <popey> AlanBell: dunno how many they have sold, but I'd guess in the high hundreds or low thousands
[15:29] <shauno> screen-x: yes
[15:30] <popey> aim is 3300 by april
[15:30] <screen-x> shauno: presumably you've tried ssh dynamic proxy and vpn?
[15:30] <hamitron> surely if the software and hardware did what was wanted, they couldn't tell?
[15:30] <shauno> screen-x: just vpn
[15:31] <AlanBell> popey: looking at the pandora, I think I would take the iPad :)
[15:31] <shauno> that the openpandora one?  the little folding game thingie that managed to stuff a whole keypad in there?
[15:32] <popey> hah
[15:32] <AlanBell> shauno: thats the one
[15:32] <diplo> We we're talking about this at work the other day, we we're wondering if they were analysing headers etc
[15:32] <diplo> to work out what was using the traffic
[15:32] <fvahid> hi evryone
[15:32] <AlanBell> hi fvahid
[15:32] <shauno> I couldn't figure out what pandora did that my gp2x doesn't, so didn't look too much further at it
[15:33] <hamitron> is the gp2x good?
[15:33] <hamitron> I was always tempted
[15:33] <Myrtti> I still think MeeGo might end up being kick-ass awesome
[15:33] <Myrtti> for phones
[15:33] <shauno> it's not that bad, but the amiga emulator pushes it a bit
[15:33] <fvahid> I was one question
[15:34] <shauno> mine's out of commission atm because they decided to use some strange usb cable that I'm having difficulty locating
[15:34] <fvahid> I was one question about squid please help me firends
[15:34] <oimon> motorola could always buy meego :P
[15:35] <screen-x> fvahid: hi, ask your question, someone will answer if they can help
[15:35] <Myrtti> fvahid: "either flash fry it or cook it for a very long time so that the proteins don't go all rubbery"
[15:35] <Myrtti> ;-)
[15:36] <hamitron> isn't meego open source?
[15:36] <screen-x> Myrtti: I was considering that pun, but didn't know enough about cooking it ;-)
[15:36] <shauno> hamitron: the d-pad is a bit flaky.  I think they put it just too close to the edge of the device.  it's physically sound, but that one edge key just doesn't feel right.  all in all, I'm not sure I'd buy it again, but I'd be game for something very similar
[15:36] <oimon> hamitron: i mean , buy all the devs etc
[15:36] <Myrtti> hamitron: yup
[15:36] <Myrtti> screen-x: I just read about proteins and how to cook squid yesterday from my lovely "Cooking for Geeks"- book :-P
[15:37] <hamitron> if these devices acted as a phone, I'd be bought
[15:37] <Myrtti> oimon: buy all the devs... er. from whom...? it's a Linux Foundation project, majorly backed by Intel and formerly Nokia, and other companies that still are working on it
[15:38] <AlanBell> fvahid: just ask in the channel, don't worry about interrupting any other rambling going on
[15:38] <hamitron> are there still going to be many meego devices since microsoft pulled nokia?
[15:39] <AlanBell> fvahid: in the channel
[15:39] <hamitron> that could be a hurdle
[15:39] <Myrtti> hamitron: depends on the platform, not sure about how many there's going to be as phones
[15:40] <popey> AlanBell: one apparently
[15:40] <popey> anyone know of any apps in the USC that have reviews?
[15:40] <hamitron> I love toys, but don't like having to carry too many with so few pockets
[15:40] <popey> hamitron: you need a barbour jacket
[15:41]  * popey points to AlanBell who carries an OLPC in his pocket
[15:41] <Myrtti> popey: I just saw one the other day...
[15:41] <hamitron> hehe
[15:41] <Myrtti> might have been docky
[15:42] <hamitron> man if that pandora took a sim, and let me use it as a phone with a headset.....
[15:42] <hamitron> :-o
[15:42] <popey> Myrtti: any chance you can confirm that?
[15:43] <Myrtti> I just realised I've got vnc to the computer
[15:43] <Myrtti> so checking
[15:44] <popey> I have USC open and looking at Docky
[15:44] <popey> but it says "Checking for reviews..."
[15:44] <oimon> popey - tombot
[15:44] <oimon> tomboy
[15:45] <popey> i suspect I know what this is
[15:45] <s-fox> Good afternoon.
[15:45] <popey> I am behind a proxy server
[15:45] <oimon> Myrtti: yep, docky has 2 reviews
[15:45] <popey> right, thanks
[15:45] <fvahid> exec lsb_release -a
[15:45]  * popey files a bug
[15:46] <Myrtti> popey: 7zip, ArchiveManager...
[15:47] <popey> thank you
[15:47] <Myrtti> even calculator :-/
[15:47] <Myrtti> I always end up installing qalculate because gnome one is borderlining useless in my use
[15:50]  * brobostigon returns 
[15:51]  * popey files bug 742564
[15:53] <popey> thanks
[15:54] <gord> popey, did you just thank the bot?
[15:54] <popey> no, Myrtti and oimon
[15:54] <screen-x> Am I supposed to be able to see/contribute reviews in 10.04?
[15:55] <gord> oh okay then ;)
[15:55] <moreati> screen-x: I don't think so, it's an 11.04 thing
[15:55] <screen-x> ok
[15:58] <oimon> popey: that's weird - why would the proxy block it? is it making a request on port 80?
[15:59] <oimon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/RatingsAndReviews#when%20there%20is%20no%20Internet%20connection
[16:00] <diplo> oimon, Our proxy ran on port 3128
[16:00] <diplo> So if USC doesn't pick up the proxy details it wouldn't go through
[16:00] <oimon> diplo: i mean, does USC make a regular web request on port 80
[16:01] <diplo> All depends whether it uses the proxy details already setup which I suppose is what the bug request is for
[16:01] <oimon> transparent proxy is much nicer :)
[16:05] <diplo> yeah, I always wanted to implement at my last job, but 2 others we're against it for no good reason
[16:05] <diplo> Don't have one at new job, not enough staff I suppose and more trust
[16:05] <diplo> Not that I ran through the proxy myself at the last job :P
[16:06] <screen-x> diplo: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3143.txt
[16:12] <diplo> Bookmarked, too big to read late friday afternoon
[16:13] <screen-x> diplo: they aren't amazing points, but slightly better than "no good reason"
[16:14] <screen-x> but yeah, definitely tl;dr
[16:16] <nigelb> AlanBell: ping
[16:18] <diplo> By no good reason I meant that it was more of cba attitude, nothing to do with security etc
[16:18] <diplo> It was the setup we had had for 10 years and they just decided they didn't want to change
[16:19] <diplo> When we moved to terminal services I just made some changes so we could log windows user names etc instead of doing via hostnames
[16:19] <diplo> But I reckon that was the only change we really made in 10 years
[16:19] <diplo> :D
[16:19] <screen-x> diplo: well, I guess that counts as stable..
[16:24] <diplo> heh yeah
[16:29] <MichealH> Hmm
[16:30] <MichealH> PiTiVi Is not starting up...
[16:31] <bigcalm> That's a PiTi
[16:31] <bigcalm> Sorry, I couldn't hold it back
[16:31] <hamitron> :D
[16:32] <bigcalm> MichealH: try starting it from the CLI
[16:33] <MichealH> bigcalm, Is it just piti or?
[16:33] <Gary> woo, pub for lunch on a friday rocks
[16:34] <MichealH> michealh@michealh-desktop:~$ pitivi
[16:34] <MichealH> Can't find glade module
[16:34] <MichealH> heh
[16:34] <MichealH> a default app in ubuntu 10.10.... and it does not have the things needed
[16:34] <MichealH> ...
[16:35] <popey> works here
[16:35] <MichealH> Hmm
[16:42] <oimon> MichealH: have you just installed it?
[16:42] <Nafallo> Gary: well... pub for lunch rocks would be more correct, no? ;-)
[16:42] <oimon> or long time ago?
[16:43] <MichealH> oimon, It came default in ubuntu 10.10
[16:43] <Seeker`> weekend \o/
[16:43] <oimon> hmm. could always try remove and reinstall pitivi - i didn't realise it was default 10.10
[16:46] <MichealH> oimon, And I guess 10.04, as my laptop has it and I do nto remember installing it
[16:47] <oimon> MichealH: oh yeah..i am running 10.04 and i have it
[16:47] <oimon> never use it tbh
[16:47] <oimon> the only video editing i requre is of .3gp files, and 10.04 doesn't handle it well
[16:47]  * screen-x waits for a phone to ring
[16:47] <Seeker`> ring ring
[16:48] <oimon> screen-x: would it be wrong to type hard questions into irc to get the answer:P
[16:48] <oimon> wonder if google or #ubuntu-uk would be quicker
[16:48] <screen-x> oimon: :)
[16:49] <screen-x> oimon: much as you guys are great, you are unlikely to be able to answer questions about my skills/experience and suitability for a position
[16:49] <oimon> there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of linuxy jobs out there atm
[16:49] <screen-x> linuxjobs has had quite  a steady flow of them.
[16:49] <oimon> screen-x: which site?
[16:49] <screen-x> and a few Unis (well, one less now!)
[16:50] <screen-x> oimon: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs
[16:50] <oimon> ah yeah, looked there earlier today
[16:51] <oimon> i had hoped to have this job for a long time, but hey ho
[16:51] <screen-x> oimon: you'll be an MS MVP in no time ;-)
[16:51] <oimon> i'd rather be UB40
[16:52] <exobuzz> grumble launchpad fail.
[16:52] <exobuzz> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad.
[16:54] <oimon> i could always try to change the system from within i guess
[16:55] <moreati> oimon: if you have PHP fu, there's a lot of jobs on the PHPWM list the last couple of weeks
[16:56] <oimon> moreati: thanks. guess i should just be patient and see if i get properly stitched up in the new world order at my employer
[16:57] <screen-x> *ring* *ring*
[16:57] <diplo> Good night all, have a good weekend
[16:59] <oimon> screen-x: hope it goes well.
[17:00] <oimon> i'm off to play donkey kong and cheer myelf up
[17:00] <hamitron> ouuu
[17:00] <hamitron> 15% off at a model shop
[17:00] <hamitron> :)
[17:01] <Azelphur> how long does it usually take for a smart check to complete? :P
[17:01] <moreati> hamitron: at 1:24 scale that's only 0.625% off, doesn't seem that good
[17:02] <hamitron> haha ;p
[17:02] <hamitron> 1:32 scalextric ftw ;)
[17:11] <gord> geez. 5pm on release day and my 3ds still hasn't been shipped. amazon are useless
[17:12] <Azelphur> keep hitting refresh it'll make them ship it faster :D
[17:14]  * mgdm orders gord a new F5 key
[17:15] <gord> turns out that they shipped everyone who used regular delivery days ago and were waiting for another shipment to ship expedited delivery (ie: people that actually wanted it on day one) - so everyone who did expedited is just left with no information and a "dispatching soon" screen that never updates. i did however get an email saying i won't get it today, at 5pm, so thats.. useful?
[17:17] <hamitron> gord: I never got my last pre-order from amazon
[17:17] <gord> interesting, now my order has magically vanished
[17:17] <hamitron> ended up cancelling and ordering elsewhere
[17:18] <davmor2> hamitron: did you report it,  I found amazon to be pretty on the ball with issues
[17:18] <hamitron> they had no stock
[17:18] <hamitron> a guy I know who ordered the day after me got his fine, but I ordered for a lower price....
[17:18] <shauno> I've never had a problem with amazon re-sending shipments
[17:19] <shauno> the closest I ever had to an issue, was when the missing shipment showed up a month later, and I couldn't figure out how to return it without cancelling the order
[17:19] <hamitron> and what I pre-ordered was only available on DVD for pre-orders, steam download was only option after
[17:19] <hamitron> :(
[17:20] <shauno> eventually decided two copies for the price of one, was more honest than 1 copy for the price of none.
[17:21] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Price] Twyt Discontinued - http://andrewprice.me.uk/weblog/entry/twyt-discontinued
[17:21] <hamitron> amazon I've found good generally tbh, had a phone missing in an order, and they just sent another
[17:21] <gord> shauno, in those situations - unless it was an expensive thing they will generally just tell you to keep it anyway
[17:22] <gord> amazon are pretty good, but when they screw something up they are big enough that it really hurts. getting a hold of someone who can actually make any difference is almost impossible
[17:22] <shauno> it wasn't, a $20 game.  I was just paranoid that if it went awry, I'd have no more amazon  (which is pretty terrifying when you're int he sticks)
[17:23] <hamitron> I dunno where I'd get my IT books from, without amazon :/
[17:24] <hamitron> probably have to just use google
[17:24] <hamitron> to learn from
[17:25] <hamitron> tbh, I think my hassle with amazon was down to codemasters
[17:25]  * AlanBell is off to Battle:Los Angeles this evening
[17:26] <hamitron> AlanBell: ?
[17:26] <hamitron> never heard of it I don't think
[17:27] <AlanBell> a film of some description
[17:39] <HazRPG> oh rly?
[17:40] <HazRPG> AlanBell: I thought you were talking about Rage Against the Machines for a second...
[17:44] <HazRPG> hmm, why is it the kindle screensaver doesn't show pictures of books that's actually on it (or at least related to your interests)?
[17:44] <HazRPG> seems odd to see some of the book covers it decides to show :/
[17:45] <popey> http://www.ehow.com/how_7649285_change-kindle-screensaver.html
[17:49] <HazRPG> popey: cheers
[17:49] <HazRPG> although seems to easy consider I saw hacks that changed the screensaver - this just seems too easy...
[17:58] <Azelphur> how long do the longer smart tests take?
[17:59] <Azelphur> been waiting like 1 hour 30 for it now :P
[17:59] <davmor2> Azelphur: till they've finished :P
[18:00] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:00] <Azelphur> the disk utility gui should just update when it's finished right? no need to restart the disk utility to check
[18:18] <Seeker`> oooh, my dentist had some leaflets about OSS in his waiting room
[18:19] <daubers> Evening
[18:30] <s-fox> TTFN
[19:48] <Myrtti> meh
[20:26] <phonex01> hi HazRPG you there ?
[20:26] <phonex01> im hit with  stone on my head !!!
[20:26] <phonex01> this is really bad feeling !
[20:28] <hamitron> stone?
[20:29] <phonex01> yes we was protesting !
[20:29] <phonex01> we were protesting and police used stone to hit us !
[20:29] <phonex01> can you imagine that !
[20:29] <hamitron> :/
[20:30] <hamitron> bbl, phone
[20:30] <phonex01> if feel storm in my head hahahah
[20:31] <phonex01> guys im using backtrack 4 but i have strange thing here
[20:31] <phonex01> when i use it as live CD using flash stick everything work fine
[20:32] <phonex01> but when i install it mouse stop working >
[20:32] <phonex01> ?
[20:32] <phonex01> why is that  ?
[20:32] <cbx33> boo ya everyone
[20:33] <phonex01> hi cbx33
[20:33] <phonex01> strange name !
[20:33] <cbx33> phonex01, hey - has a history to it :)
[20:33] <cbx33> short for cutterbombx33
[20:33] <phonex01> oh thats good
[20:34] <phonex01> listen you used backtrack4 before ?
[20:34] <cbx33> indeed I have
[20:34] <cbx33> many times
[20:34] <phonex01> when i use it as live CD using flash stick everything work fine
[20:34] <phonex01> but when i install it mouse stop working >
[20:34] <phonex01> why ?
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> phonex01: have you checked the logs?
[20:35] <phonex01> what logs ?
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> could be a lot of reasons.. but it sounds strange
[20:35] <cbx33> hmmm - not sure - i only have it on usb :), booting a live and persistent :)
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> phonex01: those in /var/log/ :)
[20:35] <phonex01> then ?
[20:35] <cbx33> did you try plugging and unplugging a mouse
[20:35] <cbx33> does keybaord still work?
[20:35] <phonex01> yes i did
[20:35] <phonex01> but i think problem with xserver ?
[20:36] <cbx33> does kbd still work?
[20:36] <phonex01> keyboard is working fine
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> phonex01: check the kernel log (kern.lorg)
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> kern.log
[20:36] <phonex01> wait im installing it again on my flash i will boot using other computer
[20:36] <phonex01> give me a min
[21:01] <phonex01> i need a good tool for encyrption and de-encyrption ?
[21:01] <phonex01> for some common ecnryptions ?
[21:10] <alexcockell> Hi all..
[21:11] <czajkowski> evening
[21:12] <MartijnVdS> \o
[21:12] <brobostigon> o/
[21:13] <Azelphur> omg Self-tests still in progress :(
[21:13] <Azelphur> been nearly 5 hours now
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: self-tests?
[21:13] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: smart tests for this drive
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> ah
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> yeah those can take a while
[21:14] <Azelphur> :P
[21:59] <Azelphur> hmm, is lubotu working?
[21:59] <Azelphur> he's not talking to me :(
[22:01] <directhex> he hates you
[22:01] <directhex> bug 1
[22:01] <directhex> also hates me
[22:01] <Azelphur> :(
[22:01] <directhex> aha!
[22:01] <directhex> loves me
[22:01] <directhex> sexy lubotu3
[22:01] <Azelphur> !ping
[22:01] <Azelphur> I think factoids are down
[22:03] <DJones> Azelphur: You could try the web interface
[22:04] <DJones> http://www.ubottu.com/factoids.cgi
[22:12] <willy_1977> evening.
[22:17] <davmor2> Moo
[22:18] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[22:23]  * willy_1977 is installing eclipse
[22:30] <MartijnVdS> so that's why it's gone dark outside
[22:31] <brobostigon> :)
[22:34] <willy_1977> who said that...
[22:37] <willy_1977> :)
[22:40] <Azelphur> still waiting for that smart test to finish lol
[22:40] <Azelphur> might just give up and swap the drive out :p
[22:43] <willy_1977> smart test?
[22:44] <Azelphur> willy_1977: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.
[22:44] <willy_1977> ta.
[22:45] <willy_1977> still have loads to learn in terminology SMART ~ chkdsk :)
[22:47] <directhex> poor willy_1977 :(
[22:48] <willy_1977> directhex, how did you know that? have you been speaking to my mrs?
[22:48] <willy_1977> :p
[22:48] <directhex> * willy_1977 is installing eclipse
[22:48] <willy_1977> :)
[22:48] <daubers> once you get used to it's weirdness, I actually like eclipse
[22:48] <willy_1977> gotta start somewhere right...
[22:49] <willy_1977> but I'm after an ide that will support java and python
[23:05] <willy_1977> time for bed, nn
[23:27]  * hamitron yawns
[23:58] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.