[03:39] Apparently I missed a meeting eh? [03:42] zkriesse: Nope, hasn't happened yet. [03:42] It'll happen at Saturday at 20:00 UTC. [03:42] ah [03:42] jasono: was asking me if it did is why [03:43] :O [03:43] sorry zkriesse I got the days mixed up. [03:43] No problem. :) [03:43] it's cool [03:43] Ok, have to run [03:43] I was freaking out for no reason then! [03:43] Better to be a day early than a day late, right? [03:43] Trying to put in job apps [03:43] godbyk I guess. Do you know who won the election by any chance? ;) [03:44] jasono: Election? For the editor-in-chief and project leader positions? [03:44] We will be voting on that during the meeting. [03:44] zkriesse Interesting that you leave every time I'm done speaking to you. [03:44] godbyk Yes [03:44] Lol sorry bro but it just happens i guess [03:44] godbyk Oh :( === nisshh_linux is now known as nisshh [10:20] Hi all [10:21] The meeting is at... 8:00 PM UTC? [11:25] Hey everyone! Who is responsible for ubuntu-manual.org translations coordination? [19:56] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-2 [19:57] Is this url ok? [19:57] Server not found [19:57] it doesn't work for me [19:57] http://ietherpad.com/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-2 [19:57] check the above link [19:57] works for me [19:57] ok, thanks [19:59] due to technical issues i think we will use the ietherpad link which is accessible to everyone (until now) [20:00] btw, good evening everybody [20:01] hello all, meeting will start within the next 10 minutes [20:02] In the meantime I'll read info Fosburgh [20:02] We'll be starting the meeting in just a few minutes. [20:02] (We like to give a few minutes for the stragglers to arrive.) [20:03] o/ [20:03] If you'd like, you can read the meeting agenda here: http://ietherpad.com/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-2 [20:03] You can also start looking at the emails and resumes we received from the 'job' applicants here: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/jobs/ [20:03] Hello, daker and hannie. [20:03] hello godbyk [20:04] hello c7p1 [20:04] hello godbyk c7p1 shrini hannie popey [20:04] happy to see you all after a long time [20:04] daker, hello [20:06] hi [20:06] Sorry I'm a little late o/ [20:06] What have I missed? [20:06] MichealH: Nothing yet. We'll be starting in just a couple minutes. [20:06] godbyk, Okies [20:06] :) [20:08] Earth Hour in 30min ツ who's going to turn off the lights ? [20:08] daker: Well, it's the middle of the afternoon here, so it wouldn't help much. :) [20:08] I hopefull will If my sister lets me :P [20:09] Tonight we loose one hour here (summertime) [20:09] let the computer screen light your room ! [20:09] shrini ya just got me [20:09] hannie: We started summer time a couple weeks ago. [20:09] godbyk, shutdown your servers :D [20:09] Oh yeah, its BST for me tommorow [20:09] daker: Never! ;-) [20:10] Okay, I think we can get started now. [20:10] #startmeeting [20:10] Meeting started at 15:10. The chair is godbyk. [20:10] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [20:10] Hello, MootBot, my old friend. [20:10] Hi o/ [20:10] [TOPIC] Discuss turning the 'project leader' role into a marketing and recuiting team role. [20:10] New Topic: Discuss turning the 'project leader' role into a marketing and recuiting team role. [20:11] before all agenda http://ietherpad.com/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-2 [20:11] Ah, yes. Thanks, c7p1. [20:11] We had to move the agenda page because the previous pad server went offline. [20:12] We had two people apply for the project leader role and four apply for the editor in chief role. [20:12] Since there were only two applicants for the project leader role, we were considering just having both of them join forces and form a marketing/recruiting/etc. team. [20:12] godbyk, Its okay, as long as we have the Etherpad :) [20:13] But I wanted to get your thoughts on that first. I'd like to hear from the applicants on this, too. [20:13] Any thoughts? [20:13] nope [20:13] godbyk, As I have worked with Jason, and have been asked to do so by my UBT Master, i think it would be great [20:13] although not applying for the project leader role, I think it's a good idea [20:13] I'd be interested in seeing what work both jason and michael have completed for the ubuntu project [20:14] i.e. not stuff that's been started, but _completed_ [20:14] Unfortunalty It seems Jason is not here... :( [20:14] While we discuss this, everyone is welcome to read the emails and resumes submitted by the applicants: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/jobs/ [20:15] I'm busy reading them now [20:15] Okay, I'll ask a slightly more pointed question then: Is anyone *against* the idea of turning the 'project leader' role into a marketing/recruitment/etc. team? [20:15] I would not mind :P [20:16] to candidates: if you could add you name next to your nickname in the pad/agenda, that would be very helpful for everyone [20:16] can you explain a bit more about that? [20:16] As my UBT Master has indeed taught me the art of 'kidnapping' people and other important stuff, I can do some of that already [20:17] what will be the roles and duties? [20:17] c7p1, Where shall I put it? [20:17] The roles we posted are shown here: http://ubuntu-manual.org/jobs [20:17] I have my Nick next to my name in the pad names list [20:17] MichealH: http://ietherpad.com/UbuntuManualMeetingMarch2011-2 [20:17] c7p1, I mean, where in the document? [20:18] hey jasono ? is that you>? [20:18] The project leader's primary responsibilities are to promote the project and help recruit new members. [20:18] Hi Jason :D [20:18] Hi beginer Yes it is, sorry I'm late. [20:18] Hey MichealH [20:18] jasono: No problem. [20:18] godbyk, As I said, my UBT Master has helped me perfect that art :) [20:19] jasono: We were just discussing the idea of turning the 'project leader' role into a marketing/recruitment team for both you and MichealH. Do you have any objections? [20:19] jasono just chill [20:20] godbyk I have no problem with that. Care to explain more? [20:20] jasono, I would love us both to work on UM together [20:20] beginer Sure. [20:20] MichealH I'm willing. [20:20] jasono: Sure. You and MichealH were the only two applicants for that role. Instead of electing just one of you, we thought we might coerce the two of you into working together. [20:21] * popey wonders if his question will get addressed. [20:21] So effectively, jasono and MichealH would be sharing the role and working together. [20:21] Im perfectly willing :) [20:22] (as long as Jason is) [20:22] * shrini claps [20:22] popey: You might re-ask it since jasono is here now. [20:22] 20:13:59 < popey> I'd be interested in seeing what work both jason and michael have completed for the ubuntu project [20:22] 20:14:06 < popey> i.e. not stuff that's been started, but _completed_ [20:22] MichealH of course. [20:22] lol [20:22] in other words you will both work both in a team that has as it's main goal to promote the project, attract new members [20:23] c7p1, Yeah, I understood :) [20:23] that's what we called "marketing team" on previous meeting, at least that was the idea [20:24] popey I honestly have no completed work. [20:24] thanks jasono [20:25] Me and Jason were going to start a IRC Bot, but as SpeechControl was pushed upstream and so was the SII, we could not start it as [20:25] Alot of work was put int o start work, though [20:25] s/int o/into [20:25] and also, we had thought again about the IRCBot [20:26] Leaving our work ready to start, but not completed. [20:26] so i guess we are done with this topic, if so we should move on [20:26] what will that bot do? [20:26] is there anything else ? [20:26] ok [20:26] we can move on [20:26] shrini, It was going to help people with Hearing and Sight problems [20:26] awesome [20:26] It was gonna help them IRC :) [20:27] I'm also helping out with BrowserSpeak https://launchpad.net/browserspeak/ [20:27] c7p1, Totally doe here :) [20:27] *done [20:27] Okay, it sounds like both MichealH and jasono are willing to work together as a marketing and recruitment team. [20:27] godbyk, Indeed we are [20:27] A little similar to the one MichealH and I are doing, but it's a Chrom(ium)e extension. [20:28] [ACTION] MichaelH and jasono will work together on a newly formed marketing/recruitment team to promote the Ubuntu Manual Project and help recruit new team members. [20:28] ACTION received: MichaelH and jasono will work together on a newly formed marketing/recruitment team to promote the Ubuntu Manual Project and help recruit new team members. [20:28] * jasono Awesome. [20:28] [TOPIC] Editor in chief [20:28] New Topic: Editor in chief [20:28] Next up, we'll take a look at the editor in chief applicants. [20:28] You can view the emails and resumes from those applicants here: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/jobs/ [20:29] If any of the editor applicants are present and would like to talk about their background and how they'd like to contribute to the project, feel free. [20:30] We'll take a few minutes to chat with any present applicants and review the emails. [20:30] Shall I go first, or does anyone else want to? [20:30] Sure My name is Rick Fosburgh. I'm a Senior Specialist with AT&T responsible for Service Metric and Capacity results. I have led efforts to design and implement software, primarily in C and CSQL. I've also led the team responsible for documentation of those software development projects. [20:31] Teotw Sorry.. I hit send about the time I saw your remark. [20:31] Hey no problem [20:31] Until recently, I've been an avid Ubuntu user. Rather than spending time in development, I felt a role in editing the Ubuntu Manual would be a good fit. However, I look forward to working with this team in any capacity you see fit. [20:31] Thanks! for the opportunity. [20:31] Thanks, rickfosb! [20:31] Teotw: Feel free to jump in. [20:31] Thanks for the interest guys [20:33] Ok then, my name is Daniel Duncan. I have a grade A in both English & English literature. I have also 100% in Design and Technology GCSE. Those are my only achievements (in this general area) but then again I'm only 17. [20:33] :-) [20:34] I have been in an avid Ubuntu user for several years now, and have only helped a little in the Ubuntu community [20:34] which is the main reason I wish to have this role, as I have a strong desire to give something back. [20:35] (Next applicant can go!) [20:35] thanks Teotw [20:35] Are there any other editor in chief applicants here? [20:36] Anyone present should feel free to ask questions of the applicants. [20:37] Teotw, As Editor in Cheif, what will you do to make sure all manuals are "ship-shape" as I could put it before release? [20:37] Would you test them personally? Or would you dedicate a team for testing? [20:38] Well, even though it is potentially long winded, one thing would be to go through the manual as a new user to Ubuntu, testing them out on my guinea-pig laptop [20:38] and from there check factual accuracy, how readable it is, spelling, as well. [20:39] You would give it some sort of quality mark for each section? [20:39] So the more questions a new user could ask, the less of a quality mark it would get? [20:39] Yes, [20:39] A quality mark, and comments. [20:40] For both rickfosb and Teotw: It takes a number of months (and a lot of hours) to complete an edition of the manual. Do you foresee any problems with being able to dedicate the time required (especially over the long term)? [20:40] I see no reason not to be able to dedicate the time required (unless there's a coffee shortage!) [20:40] Teotw, hehe ;) [20:40] ;P [20:41] how will you manage translations? [20:41] Is the job not more about delegating others? [20:41] godbyk I do have a day job. But this is the type of work that adds 'spice' to your life. I'll put in the hours. :) [20:41] Please note that we don't provide coffee. :-) [20:41] godbyk: Lmao [20:41] godbyk, heh, You provide your own coffee :P [20:41] shrini, hannie: Are the questions directed at both of us? [20:42] yes [20:42] in general [20:42] I find that extra eye are always good to have on documentation. However, prior to a release, the ultimate responsibility should fall to the EIC. I would expect that I'd spend those final hours review the work of the team and checking the work. [20:42] You must let others do the work! [20:42] Teotw, How would you communicate with the Leaders, at what times would you come to us to ask us a favour? [20:42] hannie: A lot of delegation is involved, yes. But we definitely want someone who will stick around throughout the entire release cycle. [20:42] shrini: translations will be managed by finding and delegating people for translations. [20:43] godbyk, yes, but it takes special skills to delegate [20:43] shrini I'm new to this part of the process, however, I would expect to work closely with those team members to ensure that the output document shares the same look and feel of the original. [20:43] MichaelH: IRC, skype, email, msn and from 7:00pm to 11:00 pm weekdays, and probably not the weekend [20:43] great [20:44] look and feel is same as we use latex [20:44] for typesetting [20:44] please give some time to candidates to answer :) [20:45] Teotw, That in UTC? [20:45] yes, sorry, probably should have mentioned that! [20:45] Okay, I am on UTC :) [20:45] Not too sure about jasono, though [20:46] For any other timezones, I might make a delay to emails, or something [20:46] i would like to ask both applicants if they will work for the project despite of not being electing as Editor in Chief [20:46] elected* [20:47] I don't mind what I do, though my preference is definitely Editor in Chief [20:47] MichealH: UTC-4:00 [20:47] Per my opening, I'll continue to work with the team. And am looking forward to this. :-) [20:48] jasono, Wanna ask any quesions to the EIC candidates? [20:48] MchealH Sure. [20:49] rickfosb, Again, If you ever needed to contact me or Jason, how and when would you do it? [20:49] How often would you ask us something, or suggest something that will be benificial to your team? [20:50] Teotw How much time are you willing to spend too be EIC?-What will you do to make sure everything is well and up to date? [20:50] It would depend on time sensitivity. Email is at your discretion. I do have access to skype, etc. as well as a 'generous' phone allowance :) I intend to minimize impact to your life while getting the job done. [20:51] jasono: I would willing to be EIC as long as you would like me too - I would spend as much time as possible (I can't say how many hours per day, my guess is a few), [20:51] We'll start voting in about five minutes to give everyone time to get their questions answered and to finish reading the applications. [20:51] My current responsibilities allow me to work various hours, at my discretion. This gives me the opportunity to keep up to date with your progress, etc. [20:52] Teotw and rickfosb: Do you have any questions for us about the editor in chief role or any of its duties? [20:52] I don't think so [20:53] Sure: How many folks have been involved in the actual manual in the past? How many 'writers' should we expect to be involved this time? [20:53] Teotw, rickfosb have you given translating the Manual a thought? [20:54] rickfosb: In the past, we had assigned one or more authors to each chapter, and one editor to each chapter. Usually the chapter editors covered multiple chapters. [20:55] hannie: no, sorry - do you mean getting people to translate it? I know a few people who *might* be interested - though that's a big might [20:55] I have some 'limited' Spanish skills. So, I've only thought about how to use vi and text editors to manipulate provided translations. [20:55] (that's into Spanish, by the way) [20:55] rickfosb: The number of authors is hard to determine as anyone can commit code, but I'd guess that we had less than a dozen primary authors. [20:56] godbyk; thanks. [20:56] I have, by the way, limited French skills (B GCSE) and um, well, I'm currently learning Ancient Greek [20:56] Though that's probably not helpful! [20:56] rickfosb: When it comes to translators, the number varies wildly from language to language. Some of the languages had a dozen or more translators, while others only had two or three. [20:58] I saw some work come in this week. I expect that merging those documents 'might' be a challenge, but again, with latex as your guide, seems doable. [20:58] Teotw, I meant getting translation teams involved [20:58] Teotw: i don't think there are many who will read the manual in Ancient Greek :P [20:58] c7p1: Well, you never know :P [20:59] regarding the translations EiC hasn't any responsibility on them, right godbyk ? [21:00] hannie: Ah! I see! [21:00] hannie: shall I re-answer? [21:00] maybe it is not one of the tasks for the eic [21:00] c7p1: Not directly. We have a translation editor who is in change of managing each translated edition. The translation editors are basically equivalent to the editor in chief of the primary English edition. [21:01] thanks for making it clear :) [21:02] Okay, so let me explain how to vote. [This ought to be entertaining.] [21:02] [TOPIC] Elect an editor in chief [21:02] New Topic: Elect an editor in chief [21:03] We have four applicants: Fosburgh (rickfosb), Humnabadkar, Burgos, and Duncan (Teotw). [21:04] We'll be voting using the instant-runoff method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting). [21:04] Anyone can vote. [21:04] Can we vote when only two of the applicants are present? [21:04] To vote, you'll need to rearrange the four names in the order of preference, most preferred applicant's name first. [21:05] hannie: Yes. They're not required to attend, though we did invite everyone. [21:05] godbyk, Cant we just [VOTE] and count the +1's? [21:05] :P [21:06] MichealH: We considered that, but this method avoids ties and revotes. [21:06] Okies [21:06] I will look up xP [21:06] For example, if you preferred ApplicantB over ApplicantA, you'd say: godbyk: ApplicantB ApplicantA. [21:07] Any questions on the voting procedure? [21:07] No. [21:07] godbyk, Out of the people attended today: Teotw, rickfosb [21:08] MichealH: You can vote for all four applicants (not just Teotw and rickfosb). [21:08] I see that Teotw would work alot, so would rickfosb [21:08] List all four applicant's names in order of preference. [21:08] You want us to put the four names in order of preference? [21:08] hannie: Yes. [21:10] When you've figured out your preferences, let me know and I will keep a tally. [21:10] We will close the voting in 10 minutes (at 21:20 UTC). [21:10] If you have any questions, please let me know. [21:11] It's not a secret vote, is it? [21:11] hannie: Good question. [21:12] I have made my vote [21:12] Do we want all votes to be public or should we allow anonymous votes? [21:12] godbyk, Private ones if they want :) [21:12] Okay. You can either vote publicly in this channel or message me privately with your votes. [21:12] that's good [21:12] I'll report all the votes in this channel (but remove the voters' names from the privately cast votes). [21:14] Vote received: Fosburgh Burgos Duncan Humnabadkar [21:15] Vote received: Fosburgh Duncan Burgos Humnabadkar [21:15] Duncan Fosburgh Humnabadkar Burgos [21:16] Vote received: Fosburgh Duncan Burgos Humnabadkar [21:16] godbyk: Duncan Fosburgh Humnabadkar Burgos [21:17] * godbyk opens a spreadsheet before this gets too insane. :-) [21:17] Where is your secretary? [21:18] godbyk, Duncan Fosburgh Burgos Humnabadkar [21:18] hannie: If only I had one! :-) [21:19] Vote received: Duncan Fosburgh Burgos Humnabadkar [21:20] So far I've received votes from: godbyk, c7p1, hannie, jasono, rickfosb, shrini, MichealH. [21:20] godbyk, Nice script you have there :P [21:20] Anyone else have any last-minute votes? [21:21] godbyk, Can you tell us the results so far? [21:21] I expect it will be close... [21:21] Sure. One sec. [21:22] Okay, our ten minutes are up. [21:22] Let me tally up the results here. [21:22] Before the EiC is elected I want to say thanks to all the candidates [21:22] * MichealH seconds that [21:22] Thanks to all you too [21:23] Okay, I've got the totals. [21:23] godbyk, Last Place first! [21:23] Last place was: [21:23] We had seven voters. [21:23] suspense [21:23] Here are the totals for each candidate: [21:23] godbyk, Last place to first place? [21:24] Fosburgh: first: 4, second: 3, third: 0, fourth: 0 [21:24] Humnabadkar: first: 0, second: 0, third: 1, fourth: 6 [21:24] Burgos: first: 0, second: 1, third: 5, fourth: 1 [21:25] Duncan: first: 3, second: 3: third: 1, fourth: 0. [21:25] SO CLOSE :P [21:25] A majority of votes would be 4 or more. [21:25] * shrini whistles [21:25] pffff [21:25] With 4 first-preference votes, Fosburgh has been elected as editor in chief. [21:25] Grats, Fosburgh [21:25] * shrini claps and whistles [21:25] Thank you all! [21:25] Congrats, rickfosb [21:26] wishes rickfosb [21:26] So congratulations, rickfosb. [21:26] rickfosb, congrats! [21:26] And huge thanks to all of our applicants. [21:26] Congrats all ! [21:26] Thanks [21:26] While you didn't win the election, we'd love for you to join our team. [21:26] Me? [21:26] of course [21:27] What would I do? [21:27] I'll look forward to your help Teotw! [21:27] standby [21:27] To all of our candidates, you're welcome to join our team and help out. [21:27] * jasono :s [21:28] Teotw: Don't worry -- there's never a shortage of work to be done! [21:28] what luxury! [21:28] Don't suppose I could be told why I didn't get voted for? [21:28] lol [21:29] I will add the votes to the minutes. [21:29] thanks all for coming and voting [21:29] you're welcome [21:29] c7p1: Since our meeting has run so long, should we address the maverick release in our next meeting or do you want to go ahead and do it now? [21:30] Lets do it now :P [21:30] Agree. [21:30] Okay. I'll let c7p1 handle that then (being as he wrote the agenda and all). :-) [21:30] [TOPIC] Maverick release [21:30] New Topic: Maverick release [21:31] It's close to midnight here in Europe, but I don't mind [21:31] c7p1: It'll let you lead this topic. [21:32] c7p1: Still around? [21:32] actually there is nothing from me to tell about the Maverick [21:32] Ah, okay. [21:32] i mean it was supposed to be an update for screenshots that's all the maverick update essentially [21:32] Natty will be released shortly [21:33] yes we should start talking about Natty [21:33] I hope natty manual will require more work as it has unity [21:34] Would you like to discuss Natty a bit now or wait until our next meeting? [21:34] godbyk, Now, April is just arount the corner [21:34] shrini: Natty will definitely require a lot more work as we can't just make a few small changes. [21:34] *around [21:34] I was wondering if the manual can be put chapter by finished chapter on Launchpad [21:34] let us finish discussion about maverick now [21:34] MichealH: True, but we've also kept everyone here for 1.5 hours already and some of them are in time zones where it's quite late. [21:35] Okay, so on the Maverick front, I think that we still need to take the updated screenshots. [21:35] godbyk, it is never too early [21:35] I *think* that the screenshots list is the same as it was for Lucid, but we'll need to double-check that. [21:35] maybe natty planning should be next meeting's goal [21:35] I can kidnap a handy doc guy :P [21:36] To take the screenshots, we need to grab the latest version of Quickshot, figure out how to use it, and make sure it's working okay. [21:36] * c7p1 sorry for slow responses [21:36] c7p1, Its okay [21:38] is there any other pending task for maverick? [21:39] shrini: I think screenshots are the primary one. [21:39] shrini: Other pending tasks would be to continue to pore over it for errors. [21:40] there is nobody here knowing for screenshots, i think jenkings was supposed to give us more info but i'm not at all sure [21:40] godbyk: reading about quickshot [21:41] godbyk: will try to do that task of capturing screenshots [21:41] shrini: Thanks. [21:41] can anyone guide me on what to do after this meeting? [21:41] ditto! [21:42] shrini: If you want to look at Quickshot, that'd be helpful. Download the latest version, see if it works, and then write some instructions on how to use it. [21:42] sure [21:42] Has anyone been using Natty yet? [21:42] I tested it the other day [21:43] We need to make a list of changes between Maverick and Natty. What parts of the manual need to be updated? What parts need to be replaced entirely (Unity)? Etc. [21:43] Just an initial glance. I haven't spent any real time as yet. [21:44] Sounds like section 2? I didn't see any differences during installation. anyone? [21:45] You could open a wiki page for that [21:46] I'll add a discussion of Natty changes to our next meeting's agenda. [21:47] If anyone would like to install Natty and poke around and start a list of changes, that'd be great. [21:47] I don't mind doing that [21:47] You can create a wiki page for it under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/. [21:47] And post changes on the mailing list? [21:47] for natty changes you could also use this http://ietherpad.com/NattyChanges [21:47] ok [21:47] You're welcome to use the mailing list to discuss changes, too, yes. [21:48] kk [21:48] c7p1: I'm starting to be a little more wary of pads since it seems they are offline a lot. :) [21:48] godbyk: you are right [21:48] maybe a google doc ? [21:48] rickfosb: I'll send you an email soon to fill you in on some of the fun things we have planned for you. [21:49] godbyk; thanks [21:49] [TOPIC] Any Other Business [21:49] New Topic: Any Other Business [21:50] I think it's getting a bit late for some folks, and I don't want to keep you any longer. [21:50] Is there any other business that needs to be discussed? [21:50] So, when is the next meeting? [21:50]