hamitronhi guys00:00
HazRPGhamitron: sup dude00:21
HazRPGah crap, its 12:30am!00:21
HazRPGshould really be going to my mates leaving do!00:21
hamitronnvm him00:22
HazRPGhe's moving down south, he'll live miles away!00:26
hamitronwhere are you?00:26
HazRPGcan't blame him, he's moving for a better car designing (CAD) job00:26
HazRPGborder of the scots/england divide00:26
hamitronI know where ;/00:26
hamitronbut I suppose many here don't know of the north00:27
HazRPGright, I'll be back in an hr or two... cos no doubt it'll be ending around then00:27
hamitronokies, have fun00:27
HazRPGcatch ya later :)00:28
HazRPG\o bye all00:28
HazRPGoh crud, I should check where his new place is, iirc he moved house about 5 month ago!00:29
shaunobit late for a leaving do then00:30
HazRPGshauno: didn't get up till 11pm00:30
shaunoI mean if he moved 5 months ago :p00:30
HazRPGmoved to a better area 5 months ago :P00:31
hamitronnice toy on boffer today#00:31
HazRPGnow he's moving out of the city altogether in a weeks time00:31
hamitronupgrading my main comp00:32
hamitronwell, dev comp00:32
HazRPG4th one on the right... I think I can remember that...00:32
HazRPG*poofs into a patch of smoke into the car*00:32
HazRPG\o later00:32
hamitrondrinking an driving is bad00:32
HazRPGhamitron: I barely drink dude :P00:32
hamitronah, k00:33
HazRPGonly drink on things like birthdays, holidays or festivals00:33
HazRPGbut when I drink... I can REALLY drink00:33
HazRPGalthough, trying to keep up with my dad is a bad plan00:33
HazRPGends up into a drinking competition and we both can barely stand up00:33
hamitronI never get like that tbh00:34
hamitronlike to retain ability to do as I please00:34
HazRPGheh, I only do it on holidays - and for some reason when me and my dad do it when never get handovers00:34
HazRPGhamitron: so do I, that's the reason why I don't drink often... at most maybe 1 drink usually00:35
HazRPGanywho... ofski00:36
* hamitron spanks Azelphur00:37
hamitronsort out the comp earlier?00:37
hamitronpenguin42: ?02:00
penguin42the time on my panel is showing 01:00:5402:00
penguin42but date is correctly showing 02:0002:01
hamitronprobably something to do with the hour number not getting updated each second?02:01
penguin42it's 2 mins in and it's still there02:02
hamitronupdate on the hour my guess02:02
penguin42problem is this machine isn't up to date - it's a week or so behind on natty so I guess it doesn't amke sense to repor tit02:02
hamitronmaybe worth checking bug reports, see if it has been reported02:03
hamitronnot the sort of thing that shows up02:03
hamitronbut there again, for an hour, it is not worth getting %h variable each min02:04
hamitronif that is the problem02:04
shaunoI kinda doubt that's it02:07
shaunoyou wouldn't usually write "updated the seconds 60 times.  then update the minutes and update the seconds another 60 times .."02:07
hamitronmaybe not02:08
shaunoyou just keep doing strftime() on a regular basis02:08
hamitronjust get a time at load time, than move it each second?02:08
hamitronsee, I'd want to limit the call to such a function02:09
shaunoI wouldn't.  that's what it's there for :)02:09
hamitronhow often would it be called?02:09
shaunoif you're showing seconds, atleast once a second02:09
hamitronsuppose it isn't that heavy ;)02:10
shaunoit's not as lossy as it sounds because libc is pretty much guaranteed to be in memory somewhere02:11
hamitronif it is too heavy for a system, that is the least of that persons worries02:11
hamitronah, so it won't need to calc the format from the raw time in seconds?02:11
shaunowell, that's what strftime does02:12
hamitronit is that conversion I would want to restrict02:12
hamitronbut I suppose it is not a worry on modern machines such petty calcs02:12
shaunoit wasn't a concern on my 16MHz amiga, I can't see why it'd be a concern on anything else made in the last 20 years02:13
shauno(and anything slower than 16MHz has no place running gnome-panel :p )02:14
hamitronthat thin client pc I ordered sounds fast, after you mentioning this02:16
shaunomy only problem with that would be that it's using an embedded linux, so it's a bit more difficult to just stick whatever you want on it02:20
shaunobut for £8, what's the worst that can happen02:20
hamitronI intend to run embedded linux myself02:21
hamitrontbh, won't affect me as much as a lot of users in here02:22
hamitronI am considering replacing my p120 with 24mb ram with it02:22
shaunomight keep an eye on that one, but that want £8 just to deliver here :/02:22
hamitronanother option is just play with it and electronics02:23
hamitronand another.... to use it as my main system02:23
hamitronmake everything else feel kinda cool02:24
hamitrontbh, I could of ordered 10 of them, and given each its own task :/02:25
hamitronbut gotta control ones self ;)02:25
shaunochilly tonight :/  downside of having clear skies02:28
hamitronI am glad for it02:29
hamitronmy poor 350W psu is hurting with one of the comps here02:29
shaunosounds about right.  myself, I'm warmblooded :p02:29
hamitron(getting a bit hot)02:30
shaunocan't believe it's 3am already.  I've done absolutely nothing productive at all yet02:53
hamitronme neither02:53
hamitronother than spend money02:53
hamitronkinda stuck though02:54
hamitronwanna move files off a comp with a scabby RAID 0 setup02:54
hamitronbut network sharing is messed up02:54
shaunoI meant to take a bash at my old tower tonight, then realised I don't have any wired keyboards in the house atm :/02:55
hamitronand a comp which was gonna be used as temp storage has stopped working02:55
hamitronI don't have any wireless ones ;)02:55
shaunoI've just got one that I drag from machine to machine, but I left it at work because the one they gave me is pants02:56
hamitronmy new keyboard is one of those skype ones off boffer02:56
hamitronpack of 5 :/02:57
hamitronso plenty to nibble at02:57
hamitronI want one :D http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lower-Upper-case-USB-PS2-Coloured-PC-Keyboard_W0QQitemZ270688894210QQcategoryZ33964QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m8QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D6%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8021067016821701839#ht_1499wt_90502:59
hamitrongrand prix tomorrow03:03
hamitronin 2 hours03:04
hamitronshould of had an early night03:04
hamitronall nighter time03:04
hamitron3 hours I mean03:05
shauno3's enough for a nap :)03:07
hamitronI'd never bother getting up03:09
hamitronpart of me wants to not watch it03:09
hamitronand sleepy and in bed would decide on it03:10
shaunowhy does telly have to be so pants at 4am04:34
HazRPGshauno: cos it just is :P05:30
HazRPGshauno: iplayer ;)05:30
HazRPGalso, hi :)05:30
shaunoiplayer doesn't work here :(05:32
shauno4od does, but bleh05:32
shaunoaww, calibre's content server doesn't work on ipv6.05:38
HazRPGfor the install terminal command?05:45
shaunoit has a content server that works with the ebook reader on my phone05:47
shauno(connect/share in the toolbar, start/stop content server).  servers up http on 8080, but with a shedload of metadata in the html, so my phone can parse it as a content source05:48
shaunoerm, *serves up05:48
shaunoit works on but not http://[::1]:8080/, so I can't reach it without port forwarding  (I can reach my laptop via v6, but v4 has to go thru NAT)05:50
shauno(not sure how much sense I'm making)05:57
shaunoHazRPG: Don't tell me you fell asleep already06:39
HazRPGoh heh sorry, mates round... we're eating pizza :)06:39
HazRPGoh, that's random...06:40
HazRPGthink that's really calibre's fault? Or a different bug?06:40
HazRPGsurely it would be using (java?) libraries to create that web-server thing06:41
shaunoI'm not quite sure.  all the python's compiled so it's difficult to peek at06:41
HazRPGoh heh, course its python not java06:42
shauno$ find /Applications/calibre.app/ -name *py | wc -l06:42
shauno       506:42
shauno$ find /Applications/calibre.app/ -name *pyo | wc -l06:42
shauno    219806:42
HazRPGsrc is found on the site if ya really want to peak into it06:42
MartijnVdS\o/ F106:42
shaunoit just tries to listen on .. I'm not sure why that'd stop it answering ::1 :/06:47
shaunowill see if I can break it when this movie's finished :)06:47
HazRPGguessing your running off downstairs to watch something?06:52
MartijnVdSshauno: IPv4 vs IPv6. Try listening on ::06:58
MartijnVdS(if you listen on v6, v4 should work, other way around not so much)06:59
MartijnVdS(because ipv4 addresses fit in the struct sockaddr for v6, but not the other way around)07:00
MartijnVdSshauno: see man 7 ipv6 and man 7 ip07:03
shaunogood lord, it is that easy07:03
shaunohad to remove the .pyo to get it to use the .py instead, but it's answering now07:03
* MartijnVdS feels like factbot ;)07:04
* shauno pet pet factbot07:05
shaunothat's fantastic.  now my phone treats the contents of calibre as if they're already on the phone07:05
MartijnVdSheh, RTL (Dutch F1 broadcaster) have an HD channel with the SD feed07:05
MartijnVdS*switch to BBC HD*07:06
HazRPGI'd recommend telling the calibre people about this, so that they can fix it :)07:11
HazRPGeven though it is just one line :P07:11
MartijnVdSThe calibre people are very good at bugfixy things07:11
shaunoI'm not sure it would be one line to fix properly07:12
MartijnVdSlistening on :: might not work if your OS doesn't support ipv607:12
shaunoI don't think listening on :: would work if they didn't have v6 loaded?  so you'd need to catch & fallback07:12
MartijnVdSthough people should really start enabling v6 now v4 is running out07:13
HazRPGoh, well yeah... but I mean it would be nice if it was added - plus I doubt the catch for figuring out if they have ipv6 loaded won't be that hard07:13
shaunoit shouldn't be, I just need to find it07:13
HazRPGMartijnVdS: it ran out ages ago :P they're currently just retracting extra unused IP's from uni's etc07:14
MartijnVdSLeast you could do is suggest it as a fix, then have them really fix it :)07:14
MartijnVdSHazRPG: No, even that ran out now :)07:14
shaunothere's likely already a catch in case something else is already listening on that port.  just need one more condition there07:14
MartijnVdSHazRPG: RIPE, etc have a few addresses left.. but that's it.07:14
shaunomsft just bought a block off nortel07:15
MartijnVdSbut they still have to prove they're going to use them all within a few years07:15
MartijnVdSor they'll have to give them back to ARIN07:16
shauno666,624 addresses for $7.5 USD.  over $10 per address.07:16
MartijnVdSrules are stricter now07:16
shaunoer, $7.5M07:16
shaunothat's a clear indication that the writing is on the wall.  that's not a stupid amount of addresses for say, an isp.  it is a stupid amount of money07:18
MartijnVdSI'm dual-stack atm07:18
MartijnVdSI could disable IPv4 and still do most things (vps, facebook, google/gmail/youtube/etc., most Dutch news sites, Dutch govt, all have v6)07:18
shaunoI'm using he.net at home, but since I get v6 on work's wifi, I'm trying to use it as much as possible for phone<>home  (And vps, which has 6 native)07:19
neuromorning all07:19
neuroi take it somone's noticed *.ubuntu-uk.org is fecked?07:20
shaunoI hadn't, but it does indeed seem to be unreachable here07:21
shaunooh, there it goes07:21
HazRPGplant.ubuntu-uk.org works fine here07:22
neuro[07:14]  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: RIPE, etc have a few addresses left.. but that's it.07:23
neuroMartijnVdS: you know that RIPE got allocated a /8 along with the other four RIRs on 3rd feb?07:23
MartijnVdSneuro: yes, but they aren't getting any more07:23
MartijnVdSbecause there aren't any more07:23
neuroi know that07:23
shaunothere aren't anymore to get.  that's why the last ones were handed out like that07:23
neurobut that's 16.7m addresses07:24
neuroplus however many they still have to allocate within their pre-existing blocks07:24
MartijnVdSneuro: That's one for everyone in the Netherlands :)07:24
neuroit's not "there's no addresses left", it's "there's no spare addresses to be granted to RIRs to then be allocated to LIRs to then be allocated to end users"07:24
MartijnVdSneuro: it's "Stage 1 is burned out, we're now burning stage 2"07:25
MartijnVdSanyway, enabling ipv6 is becoming a smarter move every day :)07:25
shaunoI just see it as common sense to be on the ball while there's still time to play with it07:26
shaunorather than reacting once things start getting tight(er)07:26
MartijnVdSI wonder how much will break on "IPv6 day" (June 8th)07:27
neuroprobably only poorly configured clients07:27
neuro"and nothing of value was lost"07:27
MartijnVdSneuro: broken/old DSL routers might not help07:27
HazRPGwow, ipv6 day is june 8th?07:28
HazRPGas in when they flip the switch?07:28
MartijnVdSHazRPG: http://isoc.org/wp/worldipv6day/07:28
neuroi doubt routers will be much of a problem, clients handling AAAA answers for name resolution may be more of an issue07:28
neuroHazRPG: it's just a one-day test07:28
MartijnVdSHazRPG: http://test-ipv6.com/07:28
shaunothere's no switch to be flipped.  ipv6 day is a bunch of big sites throwing it open to see how much it hurts07:28
shauno6 is designed for a gradual transition.  it's not like going from ncp to ip overnight :)07:29
neuroncp->tcp was a gradual transition too tho iirc07:29
neurowe just remember it as a cut off because there was an actual cut off date and event07:30
MartijnVdSHazRPG: I get 10/10 on both ipv4 and ipv6 on that page :)07:30
neuroipv4 will be around for decades yet07:30
HazRPGI get 10/10 v4, and 0/10 v6 xD07:30
MartijnVdSHazRPG: time to get your v6 on ;)07:30
HazRPGI'm pretty sure my ISP is switching straight to ipv6 soon though07:31
* neuro gets 10/10 + 9/1007:32
MartijnVdSHazRPG: no, they'll go dual-stack07:32
MartijnVdSneuro: 9? why 9?07:32
neurov6ns bad apparently07:32
neurohornet:~ neuro$ host -t any aaaa.v6ns.test-ipv6.com07:32
neuroHost aaaa.v6ns.test-ipv6.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)07:32
neurowhich is odd because my local resolvers do v6 no problem07:33
neurohornet:~ neuro$ host -t any ipv6.google.com07:33
neuroipv6.google.com is an alias for ipv6.l.google.com.07:33
neurohornet:~ neuro$ host -t any ipv6.l.google.com07:33
neuroipv6.l.google.com has IPv6 address 2001:4860:8003::6307:33
MartijnVdSneuro: dig +trace ?07:33
neurointeresting, that worked07:34
neurobroken tool, i claim the moral victory :)07:34
shaunoodd.  works here07:35
neuroMartijnVdS: just found a stat on http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/ipv4-exhaustion/faq ... RIPE have the equivalent of 4 /8's left, ~ 75m addresses07:38
MartijnVdSBased on current calculations, we can predict that the RIPE NCC's current reserves should last until the end of 2011.07:39
MartijnVdS(according to that page)07:40
neurodepends on the behaviour of LIRs07:40
neuroand of ISPs07:41
MartijnVdSneuro: the rate of assignment was increasing last I know07:41
HazRPGgotta remember, mobile phones use ipv4 too ;)07:43
neurousually behind NAT tho07:43
MartijnVdSHazRPG: Mine is dual-stack on wifi :)07:44
neuromy voda 3g gets a 10/8 address07:44
MartijnVdSUMTS (3G) is v4-only OR v6-only (you can choose at connection time), so that's useless :)07:44
MartijnVdSafaik LTE is going to be dual-stack07:44
HazRPGMartijnVdS: I doubt your EDGE/3g/3.5g/4g/GSM/Whatever... uses ipv6 thought07:44
MartijnVdSHazRPG: it can.. but then you can't use v4 at the same time07:45
shaunoyou'd think mobiles would be at the front of v607:45
HazRPGlucky you, we don't get the choice :(07:45
MartijnVdSshauno: they've supported v6 for ages, carriers just suck :)07:45
HazRPGshauno: you'd think, with mobile phones being the one wasting a majority of IP's07:46
shaunoI know, mine does v6 on wifi :)07:46
MartijnVdSshauno: so does mine07:46
MartijnVdSandroid \o/07:46
HazRPGI'm on android... so I would /assume/ mine does07:46
shaunothat's why I wanted calibre to answer v6, so I can reach it from outside my home07:46
neuroHazRPG: what carriers do you know of who are deploying non-RFC1918 IPs to handsets?07:47
HazRPGI don't even know what that means xD :D07:47
neurowell like i said07:47
shaunoI believe mine gets a 'real ip'07:47
neuroon voda, i get a 10/8 IP07:47
MartijnVdSneuro: Vodafone Business in the Netherlands ("laptop 3G sticks")07:47
neuroi'm behind NAT, so i'm not using a "real IP"07:48
MartijnVdSneuro: that gives me a real IP07:48
HazRPGI get a real IP on mine too07:48
neuroMartijnVdS: so that's probably only a small subset compared to consumer use07:48
shaunoI get a 'real ip' on both my phone, & my 3g dongle07:48
neurowhich carriers?07:49
HazRPG(sort of o2?)07:49
HazRPGshauno: do you get text-receipts? (i.e. when someone gets a text you've sent, you get told if its actually been sent)07:50
shaunonever tried07:50
HazRPGbecause I have to type in a code at the start of my text to be able to get them (instead of the standard method used by phones in the options), and it sends you a text saying it was sent... instead of notifying the phone to update the text to say (sent successfully @ <time>)07:51
HazRPGwhich I think sucks07:52
MartijnVdSHazRPG: ouch07:52
MartijnVdSthat's how it used to work in the netherlands07:52
HazRPGMartijnVdS: o2 do it via a hack... its retarded :/07:52
MartijnVdSNow everyone uses the flag in the phone settings07:52
HazRPGo2 are tight barstools07:52
HazRPGsadly giffgaff uses their network :/ (sort of like a reseller)07:53
HazRPGannoyed me for a few days when my phone stopped showing the blue mail icon :(07:54
HazRPGbecause I thought no one was getting my texts!07:54
HazRPGshauno: how you getting your ipv6?07:54
shaunoat home, he.net07:54
neuroshauno: from what i can tell, o2.ie NAT, how are you determining you get a real IP?07:55
neurobecause an external test like whatsmyip.org will just show the address of the gateway you're NATting through :)07:56
shaunoneuro: just trying to figure that out now :)07:56
shaunoI've a feeling you may be right, as the IP I see connecting to my vps isn't the same as the one I see doing whatismyip.org07:56
shaunobut I had ssh inbound working when I used to have it jailbroken, which doesn't make sense07:57
shaunoyeah, I'm getting 10.53. on my phone, but 62.40. on my dongle08:01
shaunofunky.  I'm positive I used to be reachable on my phone08:03
shaunoalso, bug 743486  :)  fun way to spend 7am on a sunday08:06
lubotu3Launchpad bug 743486 in calibre "library/server/ doesn't listen on ipv6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74348608:06
shauno(calibre's website points you to lp, so that is upstream, not the ubuntu maintainer)08:07
shaunoI'd try to offer a patch, but difficult to test .. I can't turn v6 off in osx08:08
HazRPGxD dead funny!08:13
HazRPG(defcon 18 related)08:13
shaunoDoesn't look like my laptop will be here until the 5th :(08:19
HazRPGomg! lmao! you should really check that video out! xD XD08:23
shaunoman I hate that.  get sidetracked by irc, go back to movie, don't want to rewind because I'll find out who kills who :(08:51
HazRPGoh, guessing you watched that vid I sent?08:57
HazRPGfunny though, right :D?08:57
HazRPGnever steal a hackers computer :D08:57
* HazRPG pokes MartijnVdS to watch the video above08:57
MartijnVdSI've seen it a while back08:58
shaunoFeeling I've seen it too. Got sidetracked trying to help someone figure out how to turn bsd device names into osx networkservices :/09:04
kvarleyWhich video editor will allow me to take a video and add an image border to it in order to replace the black bars which appear on youtube?09:07
MartijnVdSif you output proper 16:9 video, youtube won't add black bars :)09:08
MartijnVdSIf your video is 4:3 (for example), you'd have to decode, add a background, then re-encode09:09
MartijnVdSthat's going to be very lossy (potentially)09:09
kvarley MartijnVdS: I know, my monitor is 16:10 and I captured a video which is 16:10 but can't re-record the video so I want to add an image border to fill the black bars and make the resolution 16:909:09
kvarley MartijnVdS: Hhhmmmm ok, I may have to settle for black bars then :/09:10
MartijnVdScan't pitivi do it?09:12
MartijnVdSwith a transparent png/image (leave the 16:10 bit transparent, draw in the rest)09:13
MartijnVdSthen render?09:13
kvarley MartijnVdS: Not sure I'll try it now, thank you09:15
HazRPGI knew there was a reason I did/didn't like watching defcon videos xD09:16
HazRPGscary seeing some of the hacks they get up to ...09:16
HazRPGyet still awesome at the same time09:16
HazRPGawesome -> wow I didn't know you could do that, I want to try! Or at least learn the process09:16
HazRPGscary -> this could happen to me one day!09:17
shaunoProving it can happen us the first step in making sure it doesnt :)09:18
kvarley MartijnVdS: Doesn't work because it stretches the video from its original dimensions to fill the space09:22
HazRPGI think watching some of these videos has inspired me to make sure my devices have a way of telling me where they are09:22
shaunoI did the same; setup prey (preyproject.org) but using my own webserver instead of theirs so I can log everything09:24
shaunoerr, .com rather09:24
ali1234you should crop rather than add your own border09:27
ali1234kdenlive is supposed to be the best video editor09:28
MartijnVdStoo bad it's got a k in the name09:29
ali1234yeah it's kde09:30
MartijnVdSkde would be so much better if they didn't start EVERY program name with a k09:30
HazRPGas a thing, I mainly dislike kde09:30
ali1234the gnome design ethos doesn't really work when it comes to productivity software09:30
ali1234eg pitivi09:30
HazRPGali1234: how so?09:30
ali1234imagine if the gnome design methodology was applied to photoshop or premier or after effects09:31
ali1234the first thing they would do is remove the 90% of the features that "most" people don't use09:32
ali1234but the problem is that these programs are not designed for "most" people09:32
ali1234so the result would be that people who actually know what they are doing can no longer use photoshop09:33
ali1234now, instead of having a solid base of professional users, photoshop would be competing with the likes of paint shop pro, and ms paint09:33
ali1234since it's not designed for this market place, it would slowly die09:34
HazRPG... hmm really?09:36
ali1234yes really09:37
HazRPGGIMP I'm pretty sure follows gnomes design... yet still has a lot of functionally that *most* people wouldn't use09:37
ali1234gimp doesn't follow gnome design at all09:37
ali1234gimp does whatever it wants09:37
ali1234to make a car analogy it would be like porche saying "from now on we only make family cars and SUVs"09:40
shauno gimp doesn't really follow anyone's design.  last time I used it, it couldn't even spell HIG.09:43
ali1234well i installed kdenlive, turns out it sucks09:43
ali1234now it's got completely confused, forgotten all clips, and won't let me do anything09:44
ali1234looks like cinelerra is still the best editor and blender is still the best compositor09:51
MartijnVdSI just let other people make videos09:51
ali1234unfortunately they are both close to impossible to use09:51
HazRPGblender isn't that bad09:56
HazRPGfor 3D at least09:57
HazRPG(didn't know you could use blender as a compositor for videos09:57
ali1234most people don't09:58
ali1234the Ui for it is buried so deep09:58
MartijnVdSalso, it's not really advertised09:58
ali1234you are unlikely to ever find it without a tutorial09:58
MartijnVdSWhen I hear "blender" I think "3d"09:58
MartijnVdSnot "video"09:58
ali1234even though the name "blender" is a specific reference to it's ability as a compositor09:59
HazRPGyeah, but you still think of it for animation of 3D objects - not for a stream of videos09:59
ali1234it's because that's what it looks like it is when you load it up10:00
ali1234when you use it as a compositor you essentially animate movie clips in the same 3d space10:00
ali1234ie mapped on a plane10:00
ali1234so "what would it looks like if it looked like a compositor?"10:01
ali1234(it would look the same)10:01
ali1234pitivi doesn't seem to understand alpha channels at all10:03
AlanBellhttp://votegeek.org.uk/ how does that look for people?10:03
ali1234still crashes firefox10:03
AlanBellno, it doesnt10:03
AlanBellit takes a *long* time in firefox10:04
ali1234and it goes grey and stops responding to user input10:04
ali1234and then after about 20 seconds i have to click "continue"10:04
AlanBellsit cross legged, shut your eyes and hum10:04
AlanBelland then press continue10:04
ali1234yeah that doesn't work10:04
ali1234pressed continue 5 times now10:05
HazRPGworks here10:05
ali1234why is it so slow?10:05
AlanBellali1234: let it rock on10:05
AlanBellit is doing a *lot* of calculations10:05
AlanBelldoesn't take very long on Google Chrome on a core i7 Macbook Pro10:06
ali1234sure, as long as it runs fast on your computer, that makes it ok...10:06
HazRPGGoogle Chrome + i7-930 + 6GB RAM ;) (custom build)10:06
HazRPGalthough, I'm currently processing a dump of wiki in the background too - so it crunched those numbers pretty well/fast :P!10:07
AlanBellbut on my little i3 Ubuntu laptop it takes about a minute in firefox10:07
ali1234takes about 15 seconds in chromium here10:07
ali1234or about a minute in firefox10:08
ali1234hard to tell when firefox is spamming me with "this script is running slooooow" warnings10:08
ali1234have you considered putting a timer in it so it doesn't lock up the browser?10:08
AlanBellali1234: yeah, I would like to do that10:08
ali1234which is the slow function?10:09
AlanBellI have been reading about web worker things, but just a yield or something would be good10:09
ali1234javascript doesn't have yield as such10:09
AlanBellwell the outer loop goes round 3916 times10:09
ali1234what you do is make a function that does a "bit" of the work and then run it repeatedly from a timer10:09
ali1234ok, perfect10:09
AlanBelland for each one of those it does 531 calculations10:09
ali1234instead of a for() look, you use a timer() that gets rerun until all work is done10:09
AlanBelland each one of them is done three times10:09
ali1234that way it does some work, then services some browser stuff, and it doesn't lock up10:10
AlanBellhow do I know how long the timer should run?10:10
ali1234that's the best part10:10
ali1234you don't10:10
ali1234you restart the timer when the function finishes10:11
ali1234with time = 0.0001 seconds or whatever10:11
ali1234that makes it effectively identical to a yield10:11
AlanBelloh ok, so it will still run as fast10:11
AlanBellgot an example of that?10:11
ali1234pretty much yes10:11
AlanBelland it should draw the dots one at a time so you see it doing stuff10:11
ali1234yes it should do10:12
ali1234it will probably be a bit slower, but it won't "crash"10:12
ali1234you may need to use a closure to construct the parameter10:13
ali1234or perhaps tail recursion10:13
shauno"If you don't have a shiny new computer".... should I not be trying this on my phone?10:14
MartijnVdSshauno: is it shiny and new?10:14
shaunooh, it doesn't work on the phone :(10:15
shaunothe 'mobile theme' turns off resizing, so the content is outside the viewable area; and the link to turn the mobile theme off, doesn't :)10:15
shaunooh well.  I was looking forward to blowing my phone up :D10:15
AlanBellshauno: sorry, no phone explosions today10:15
shaunodoes it give any indication that it's done?10:17
* AlanBell reads http://answers.oreilly.com/topic/1506-yielding-with-javascript-timers/10:18
ali1234this script confuses me10:18
AlanBellshauno: big triangle with colours in it10:18
shaunoah, ok10:18
AlanBellali1234: the functions are not in a logical order and there are unused functions still there10:19
shaunowasn't sure what I was expecting on the first run10:19
BigRedShardware is so much more expensive than softwarei10:19
ali1234AlanBell: specifically the swingometer() function10:19
BigRedSwrong window10:19
AlanBellshauno: expect something like this http://votegeek.org.uk/the-shape-of-our-democracy/10:19
shaunoseems to work fine here, but that'd be my only suggestion.  the only way I can tell it's done what it's meant to, is the "Safari is no longer responding because of a script on the webpage “Vote Geek”" dialogs stop popping up10:20
AlanBellali1234: some of that came from here http://refusingthedefault.blogspot.com/p/alternative-vote-swingometer.html10:21
willy_1977goo morning...10:21
shaunosome kinda green light to say no, it didn't break, it's all finished  would be welcome on something that stressy10:21
AlanBellwhich does a few more calculations than I wanted to do, and I didn't get round to fully stripping out the ones I don't want10:21
ali1234why does it go through every possible share of votes?10:21
ali1234surely the point is you enter the vote share you want10:22
AlanBellyou enter the transfer rules you want10:22
AlanBellthe grid represents every possible vote share10:22
AlanBelland the shape of it changes based on what people do with their second choice10:23
ali1234oh i get it10:23
ali1234that's why the old chart is so much faster right?10:24
AlanBellthe old chart was pre-calculated10:24
AlanBellit just loads the svg10:24
HazRPGAlanBell: just a design issue... but might be worth making the dash ( - ) in the centre... I originally looked at it and though "why isn't there a box for conservative?" and why is there a dash after conservative... later realised after analysing it a bit that there was dashes on the others too10:24
ali1234i thought i remembered entering different numbers on it10:25
AlanBellHazRPG: yeah, will do10:25
ali1234hmm are you assuming that 100% of people actually use the second choice?10:26
HazRPGAlanBell: having it all centred would look nicer, but not fully necessary... the dashes though are just confusing if they're not centred10:26
ali1234cos i would expect it to be closer to about 20%...10:26
ali1234ah, the "nowhere colun"10:27
AlanBellyeah, the nowhere column is the remainder10:29
AlanBellmost people doing a minor party vote will use the second choice10:29
daubersHooray \o/ czajkowski fixed my formatting issues. Thank you :)10:29
AlanBellthey will vote 1)Green 2)libDem etc10:29
AlanBellor 1)ukip 2)con10:29
ali1234but that's only about 10% of people10:29
AlanBellI would expect the "nowhere" value to be lower for "other" than for the major parties10:30
ali1234conservative voters won't vote for anyone else10:31
shaunoI tried to boot linux on my palm tungsten, and I do believe I've killed it :)10:31
ali1234labour might though10:31
HazRPGAlanBell: ah, the N/A is a better choice :)10:32
ali1234how do i interpret these results anyway?10:33
HazRPGAlanBell: www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/votegeek.png <== I think that would look better, but just my thoughts :) (you'll notice my chrome-fu is also in there at the bottom right)10:37
HazRPGAlanBell: the bit I added is highlighted10:38
HazRPGhowever, not sure if that would mess up other things10:39
HazRPGyou'll know your code better than me :)10:39
popeyyou dont have enough tabs open HazRPG10:39
HazRPGpopey: don't I?10:40
ali1234why is it green?10:40
HazRPGali1234: it is?10:40
HazRPGoh you mean the theme?10:40
HazRPGits an android based theme10:40
ali1234doesn't it clash with all the rest of your OS?10:41
HazRPGthe rest of my o/s is grey10:41
HazRPGpopey: I'm usually worse than this for tabs10:44
HazRPGbut hey, that's why we have tab-scroll in ubuntu :)10:44
HazRPGali1234: http://www.redmondpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/GoogleChromeAndroidTheme.jpg10:45
HazRPGooo winner, finally uploaded all my pictures to picasa web10:48
MartijnVdSSpeaking of pictures10:48
MartijnVdSMight go out with the ol'50D later10:48
HazRPGthink there's like 500 pictures in this one album alone >_<10:49
HazRPGnice :)10:49
HazRPGMartijnVdS: ooo, you like photos too! Check out my few attempts at panoramic views! https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qTJqW8B4beWcOMr2_J0_D0Sln1IbCow2Lz_7Dmnl72k?feat=directlink10:50
HazRPGthat's just using a built in function inside the camera!10:50
daubersOoooh, speaking of photo's I need to sort the ones I took yesterday10:50
MartijnVdSHazRPG: cool10:50
HazRPGMartijnVdS: that was the view outside my hotel window in the philippines :P10:51
MartijnVdSHazRPG: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157613473805120/10:51
HazRPGnot sure if it shows the meta data publicly, but it'll show ya the camera & settings I used10:51
* willy_1977 is trying to get used to unity...10:51
MartijnVdSHazRPG: made those with autopano/hugin10:52
MartijnVdSa Fuji Finepix10:52
daubershugin \o/10:52
HazRPGMartijnVdS: nice!10:53
HazRPGMartijnVdS: although, what's with the black squares?10:53
MartijnVdSHazRPG: That's when you don't have pictures to cover that area of the panorama10:54
MartijnVdSmost people cut them off, but I liked this one :)10:54
HazRPGheh I had to google hugin and autopano to figure what you meant10:55
HazRPGbut yeah, that's pretty awesome :P10:55
HazRPGI had to use a mix of a steady hand and a tripod to do some of my attempts10:56
MartijnVdSI did those by hand10:56
MartijnVdShugin auto-rotates pictures that are "off"10:56
daubershugin is magic and witchcraft combined10:56
MartijnVdSand mono10:57
HazRPGI was so impressed with my panorama skills, I ended up taking my portable tripod I bought while I was over there all the time and tried to take as many as I could possibly do without getting bored :P10:59
* daubers sets hugin to start stitching11:00
AlanBellHazRPG: thanks, I will put that in11:01
AlanBellali1234: that is kind of my point, the people voting for the minor parties in the "other" space are the ones most likely to use their alternative voting options11:02
AlanBellthe major party voters will be more likely to vote 1)con 2)nothing11:02
ali1234ok, i've timerized this11:03
ali1234it's messed up though11:04
ali1234in a rather amusing way11:04
ali1234the dots go outside the triangle now11:04
ali1234ah i forgot to set the inner loop counter back to zero11:04
AlanBellI have to go to a kiddie birthday party now, will hack it this evening11:05
MartijnVdSdaubers: AlanBell's place ;)11:06
willy_1977someone mention cake?11:06
* daubers goes to get the car keys11:06
ali1234ah it's supposed to start at 1% not 0 % too11:08
AlanBellali1234: yeah, for historic reasons11:11
ali1234ok i think it's working properly now11:12
HazRPGI see cake!?11:13
AlanBellthe old swingometer didn't work with values of 0, this one could do it11:13
* AlanBell heads out11:13
HazRPGAlanBell: oh, you mean the centre code?11:13
HazRPGAlanBell: winner :D11:13
ali1234i hope you realise i'm going to have to indent all this code properly too11:14
ali1234trailing whitespace everywhere11:15
willy_1977ali1234: good on you, nothing wrong with a good code indentation...11:15
daubersHazRPG: Yesterdays panorama :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattdaubney/5563914962/11:16
willy_1977daubers: that's a nice shot11:17
HazRPGwilly_1977, ali1234: Agreed... was half-tempted myself!11:17
MartijnVdSdaubers: bit grey -- blame the weather?11:18
daubersMartijnVdS: More to do with my eyes these days :(11:18
willy_1977MartijnVdS: be fair man, the caption said "sunny day in reading" ... still grey hues :p11:18
MartijnVdSdaubers: you have grey eyes?11:18
daubersMartijnVdS: No, just struggle to focus properly through glasses then through camera11:19
daubersMakes getting light levels correct a bit ... dodgy11:19
MartijnVdSah, I know the feeling11:20
willy_1977should be for drinking out of...11:20
MartijnVdSI use Live View a lot now.. if it's sharp at the "Live View" 10x zoom level, it's sharp :)11:20
daubersyesterday was the first time I went out with recent eye changes11:20
dauberswent out to take photos after prescription changes11:21
daubersthat sounds better11:21
daubersMartijnVdS: The 1000D live view thing is a bit pants11:21
MartijnVdSdaubers: you had new eyeballs screwed in? :P11:21
MartijnVdSOn the 50d it's acceptable11:21
daubersMartijnVdS: No, they've just gone more rugby ball shaped in the past 12 months11:21
MartijnVdSah, annoying11:21
brobostigongood morning everyone,11:23
MartijnVdS\o brobostigon11:24
brobostigongood morning MartijnVdS :)11:25
HazRPGbrobostigon: morning \o/11:35
HazRPGdaubers: delayed response... but... yeah that is mega awesome dude :D11:35
HazRPGdaubers: (picture you linked)11:35
brobostigonHazRPG: good morning, :)11:36
HazRPGdaubers: heh, I almost thought you had new eyeballs fitted in too with the way you were saying stuff :P11:38
HazRPGdaubers, MartijnVdS: also, if glasses are annoying while taking snaps - try contacts for when taking photos or something11:38
HazRPGI know they're a pain to put in though at first...11:38
daubersHazRPG: Can't stand contacts because of my astigmatisn11:39
daubersastigmatism even11:39
MartijnVdSI tried contacts for when I'm running11:39
daubersthey make me want to scratch my eyeballs out with the nearest scrapy impliment :)11:39
MartijnVdSbut even after a month it took half an hour to get them in11:39
MartijnVdSso I gave up11:39
HazRPGI've seen people get to the point where they can just like go *plonk* and they're in11:40
HazRPGdaubers: ah that makes sense I guess11:40
MartijnVdSI'd get them in wrongly (not "centered"), or folded11:41
OmNomDeBonBonVdS = Van der Sar?11:42
MartijnVdSnot all Dutch people have the same last name you know :P11:42
HazRPGhmm, ever get the impression that the brain is technically dual-core :P11:42
OmNomDeBonBonBut you know Edwin van der Sar right?11:43
MartijnVdSOmNomDeBonBon: Everyone in the Netherlands knows him.11:43
OmNomDeBonBonI mean personally.11:43
MartijnVdSOmNomDeBonBon: Just like everyone in the UK knows the queen ;)11:43
ali1234according to the bbc the census has "no questions on income, sexual orientation or the nature of any disability"11:43
OmNomDeBonBonI don't know the Queen.11:43
brobostigonHazRPG: or just simple SMP.11:43
ali1234this is false, there is a question about income and a question about long term disability11:43
OmNomDeBonBonThe brain is more like two sockets linked by QPI/HT.11:43
OmNomDeBonBonBut they aren't symmetrical sockets.11:44
OmNomDeBonBonYou can actually cut the connections between the left and right brain.11:44
OmNomDeBonBonYou end up with one half of your body defying your will.11:44
OmNomDeBonBonThey used to do that as a treatment for epilepsy.11:44
HazRPGyeah, but if you cut them... your vision for a start would be a bit... erm... odd11:44
HazRPGconsidering each side of the brain processes each eye individually and then connects them up together via the brains join11:45
shaunoI have to share this for the Android fans; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTUwqxHpXMY  (since we're already OT, I don't feel too bad :)11:46
HazRPGactually that would be pretty cool (and weird) if you cut the join, and suddenly you could see two images!11:46
HazRPGshauno: .... is that actually a robot inside!11:47
ali1234oh actually, my bad, it asks you for number of hours worked, not income11:47
ali1234and the question about disability is a yes/no11:47
HazRPGshauno: I don't know whether that is cool... or weird xD!11:48
shaunoneither do I : )11:48
OmNomDeBonBonHaha that vid's awesome.11:48
HazRPGguess that's one way to grab attention11:49
brobostigonsuggestions of something useful to do this afternoon.?11:50
HazRPG1) loud music, android dancing, hot chick in the booth (check); 2) .....*shrug*....; 3) PROFIT!11:51
HazRPGbrobostigon: depends on the whether I guess?11:51
ali1234it's sort of like a cross between mr blobby and dusty bin11:51
shaunoaye.  but it can move11:52
brobostigonHazRPG: kinda sunny.but cool.11:52
shaunoMr blobby danced about as gracefully as .. I do.11:52
HazRPGerm... picnic \o/11:52
daubersBBQ \o/11:53
brobostigonHazRPG: i had no initial plan to leave home really.11:53
HazRPGdid mr blobby dance? I thought he just jerked around like it had been electrocuted11:53
HazRPGbrobostigon: what daubers said then :D11:54
brobostigonHazRPG: bbq, hmm.11:54
daubersbah, why does video playback cause really weird things to happen with inotify12:06
HazRPGwhy do most videos on youtube show "related: Rebecca Black - Friday" ......... >_<12:07
MartijnVdSHazRPG: 4chan?12:07
HazRPGits almost as bad as having the radio on just seeing that link12:07
HazRPGMartijnVdS: You mean they keep watching this video?12:08
MartijnVdSHazRPG: yes, and then another so it "links"12:08
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Also... wow 55.6M views of this video :/ with like 936K dislikes xD12:09
MartijnVdSHazRPG: Apparently, people don't like Fridays12:09
* brobostigon shakes fist at Xorg for gpu hang, :(12:09
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: shake at intel, not xorg12:09
* brobostigon shakes fist at intel (xorg-xserver-video-intel) for gpu hang, :(12:10
HazRPGpopey: win12:10
HazRPGMartijnVdS: apparently not... I have a feeling that its 55M views because of 4chan + rick-roll type effect12:11
HazRPGI have a feeling it'll be called "becca-roll"12:11
shaunooh sweet.  we will one day have ornithopters :)12:11
popeythe army might :)12:12
HazRPGbird-like planes for commercial use ftw! (hopefully)12:13
HazRPGthey could call it concord 2.0!12:13
* HazRPG misses concord :(12:14
shaunofor some reason the first time I read that, I read "big-bird-like".  I've no idea where my head was going with that one12:14
HazRPGI stopped collecting plane-related stuff after concord was taken off the air (sorta speak)12:14
HazRPGshauno: heh :P12:15
HazRPGapparently you have kids-shows on the brain :P12:15
HazRPGthink it would be hard for me to create my own repo?12:16
MartijnVdSHazRPG: using a ppa, or yourself?12:16
MartijnVdSHazRPG: there are several tools to make that easy12:16
MartijnVdSHazRPG: mini-dinstall - daemon for updating Debian packages in a repository12:16
MartijnVdSHazRPG: reprepro - Debian package repository producer12:17
HazRPGjust thinking of hosting my own repo up of commonly installed software I normally do, so each upgrade I do (usually through alt disc via fresh install)... I can just add my repo in, and select all the software off it12:18
HazRPGhave it like grab all the latest software from common ppa's that I use or something along those lines12:18
popeyyou dont need a repo for that12:18
popeyjust a single deb12:18
popeyor even a script12:18
shaunohazomatix <312:19
HazRPGpopey: see I tried doing that with synaptic's auto create script thing... but failed miserably each time12:20
HazRPGthe idea is... I can have it downloading all the ppa's/debs/etc from my server and then have all my machines just pull it from there instead of having to download it like 5 times (laptop, netbook, my tower, my sister's pc, my mess around pc)12:21
HazRPGshauno: kinda... expect, not as bad as automatix12:22
shaunoI think they're 3 separate problems.  you want something to throw in /etc/apt/sources.lists.d/, maybe a metapackage to automate the list of packages you want, and an apt-cache so you don't have to pull them 5 times over12:23
HazRPGsounds about right12:24
popeyi use squid-deb-proxy to cache my downloads on my server, works well12:24
shaunoa local repo would work too, but you're likely to spend more bw keeping that up-to-date, than downloading a package 5 times each time you upgrade12:24
shauno(and wouldn't solve sources.list or a package list, really)12:25
HazRPGpopey: but that's just assuming you have a debian-based server though12:25
shaunothere's your first task then :D12:26
HazRPGits on my to-do list :P12:26
HazRPGI have two hard drives on my server that's full... and would take me a day (at the very least) to move those files around, configure the software I want it to run... copy them back over and get things running again12:28
HazRPGwell I say full, ones got about 30GB free12:28
popeyHazRPG: whats assuming?12:29
HazRPGpopey: well squid-deb-proxy is a debian based package isn't it?12:29
* brobostigon returns with goats cheese and ham toasties, yummy, :)12:30
HazRPGmy server currently runs windows lol12:31
popeywell thats silly :)12:31
HazRPGits from my HND days12:33
HazRPGwhen we were messing around with windows server12:33
HazRPGstarted out as just a test dummy, that ended up being my home server12:33
brobostigonafternoonings czajkowski12:43
HazRPGhmm, I guess I could use my VPS as a place to store my apps though...12:46
Myrttioh good.13:06
daubersczajkowski: Thanks for sorting my wiki syntax :)13:23
czajkowskinot sure what I did..13:25
czajkowskibut :)13:25
hamitronmy eyes :/ no sleep yet13:35
HazRPGhamitron: really, you've been up this whole time too?13:37
shaunotime change + F1 = poor hamitron :(13:40
hamitronF1 was boring as usual too13:40
hamitronstay up every year, hoping it will be different13:41
hamitronI think I feel it more now I am older13:42
hamitronfew years ago I'd still feel alive till 7pm13:42
hamitronnow all I am good for is drinking tea and coffee13:43
hamitronshauno: you think I can get away without declaring I've bought another comp?13:44
HazRPGbrb, drink run... plus my mate that passed out earlier today needs to go home now ^^13:44
HazRPGhe waves13:44
HazRPG... at a monitor...13:44
hamitronparents will wanna kill me13:44
HazRPGso I assume he means you guys :P13:44
hamitronhaha haz13:44
shaunohamitron: £8 .. and a tiny box .. you might be able to hide it :o)13:44
hamitronshauno: I am wondering if I should claim it is a router13:45
HazRPGbrb \o13:45
shaunoooh, that'd work13:45
shaunoshame it doesn't have two nics, else it /could/ be a router13:45
hamitronit has usb13:45
hamitronand a printer port13:45
HazRPGalso, hamitron was my mate waving not me :P13:45
hamitronI was waving at yourr m813:46
shaunoI have a "mysterious closet of internet", where the router & associated gubbings live.  I swear I could hide half an elephant in there and she wouldn't notice13:46
hamitronhaha shauno13:46
HazRPGhamitron: ah :P, he seems amused :P13:46
hamitronI have 3 routers \o/13:46
hamitronbut they are just "the network"13:47
HazRPGbig ball of fire hates me!13:47
shaunomodem, router, ups, a usb hub that looks remarkably similar to the router, an old tower PC, and ... I've lost count how many external drives.13:47
shaunoas far as she's concerned, it's just a huge ball of wires13:47
HazRPGsunnies... and round two of the leaving the house scenario part 2!13:47
hamitronsimilar :)13:47
shaunoheck, she ain't far off13:47
hamitronI do admit, I have too much though13:48
hamitroncould half the number of computers here, and still have too many13:48
hamitron17 setup, with 6 as spares ;)13:49
shaunoI gotta say I love apple's little wall-wart routers.  very easy to hide around the house.  maybe you need to start looking at plug-pcs :)13:49
hamitronnow I have 2 laptops, I could use one for "rough" work13:50
daubersIf only the apple rouers did EoP as well :(13:50
hamitronand move it around, not worry about getting oil on it13:50
hamitronand other mess13:50
hamitronI need gbit switches13:51
hamitronall I really want now13:51
hamitronEthernet over Power?13:51
* hamitron is guessing13:51
hamitrondaubers: all built in you mean?13:53
shaunomore wired networking wouldn't get me far .. all the wired clients are in the same closet as the modem13:53
hamitronyou can live with wireless?13:54
brobostigonthree men and a baby, film4, leonard nimoy directing, good film.13:54
shaunohamitron, easily13:54
hamitronI found brick walls stop the signal13:55
shaunoI've not had a problem with wifi ever since I discovered no-one else was using 5GHz locally :)13:55
shauno2.4 was a constant fight for clear channels, but I appear to have this band to myself13:56
hamitronah, built up area?13:56
shaunothat was in an apartment complex, so worse than built-up.  neighbours in all directions, including up & down13:57
hamitronI have 2 wireless neighbours in range, if I go outside13:57
hamitronnothing shows inside13:58
hamitronbut there again, I struggle to find my own in 3/4 of the house13:58
hamitronso just turned it off13:58
shaunoour laptops seem to struggle, but the routers don't.  so I put one router on each floor; problem solved13:59
hamitronthis house is 3 knocked into 1, plus an extension13:59
shaunohence why I like the dinky ones :)13:59
hamitronthen i also have ethernet to the garage13:59
shaunothey're handy when we go on holiday too.  tidy enough to throw in the bag & convert stupid hotels who think having an ethernet cable hanging beside the telly is sufficient14:00
hamitrondon't they offer an extension?14:00
* hamitron never been into a hotel14:01
shaunoit's not the length.  it's just inconvenient.  especially if I'm abroad, I want somewhere I can use my phone without o2 bleeding me dry for data14:01
shaunoI end up taking a router with me even if I'm not taking the laptop14:01
hamitronguess you are never cut off from the world...14:02
shaunonot voluntarily, no :)14:02
hamitronI personally choose to leave my mobile at home14:03
hamitronit is like the feeling of been free I really enjoy14:03
hamitrondidn't realise how different it felt until I tried14:03
hamitronhad always been encouraged to take a phone14:04
shaunoI don't feel less free for having a gadget14:04
hamitronpeople never bug you?14:04
shaunovery rarely.  now that I've convinced NTL to quit phoning me trying to sell me a phoneline (go figure), I only get work calls if I'm on-call (or late), and if I'm on holiday, my wife isn't going to be phoning me14:05
shaunoit's just a little internets in my pocket14:05
hamitronthat sounds ok then14:06
shaunoeven if it's just subway maps & any notes I've taken, I wouldn't leave it behind14:06
hamitronI seem to have a tallent for choosing high maintanance gf14:06
hamitronthat bug me too often14:06
shaunono technology can solve that :)14:07
hamitrontechnology adds to it ;)14:07
hamitrongives them a method of contact14:07
hamitronthese days I just use the excuse my ngage doesn't fit in a pocket14:08
shaunookay; why do lipo batteries all have 3 pins, and how do I figure out which is which14:09
shauno(don't have one; trying to jump pins with an led to see if I can get any signs of life)14:10
hamitronwon't you want a resistor in there? :|14:11
shaunoit's 3.7v & dead.  an led will survive a short trip14:11
hamitronah, k14:11
shaunodoes appear to be dead-dead :/14:12
hamitronall mine have + and - marked14:12
shaunoI have a battery with almost no markings at all14:13
shaunoit says "standard lithium-ion polymer battery 3.7v", and a bunch of warnings about eating it, or using it after it's been eaten; or burning it14:13
shaunoI have a lipo charger (max1555 ic), but it only has 2 pins for battery, so I'm trying to figure out if the third pin is important; and which is which14:14
hamitronit is normally for temp or data communications I think14:15
shaunogoing inside the handheld itself didn't render many clues :(14:22
hamitronoh ffs14:23
hamitronI cut and pasted a file from a network share14:23
hamitronto somewhere I didn't have permission14:23
hamitronwhere does it go?14:23
Myrtti*cough* language *cough*14:24
hamitronsorry Myrtti14:25
penguin42Myrtti: I'm sure he was just referring to the C library function - see ffs(3)14:27
Myrttipenguin42: I'm sure he wasn't14:27
Myrttisince he actually apologized and everything - anyway14:28
Myrttimaking macaroni mince casserole nomnomnom14:28
Myrttior bake, or whatever14:29
Myrttiwith a bit of parmesan and bluecheese on top...14:29
shaunoI do miss the days they made gadgets that you didn't have to abstain from drinking coffee for 3 hours before re-assembling :(14:31
penguin42that's miniturisation for you14:32
hamitroncan't find the ISO file14:39
hamitronnew download just gone \o/14:39
shaunogood sign that it's naptime.  two buttons labelled L and R and I got them the wrong way around.  twice.14:41
gingif i want to run some vms from my ubuntu desktop locally whats the best program to use?14:48
penguin42ging: I use kvm+virtmanager - works fine for me; the video isn't that fast though; others swear by virtualbox14:48
popeyi use vbox14:49
gingyeah i've used virtual box and quite liked it just wondered if there is any alternatives14:49
gingvbox == virtual box ?14:50
Myrttivmware was nice when I tried it but kvm is certainly handy to have around14:50
penguin42popey: That sloppy mouse/menu bar thing is a bit of a pain - I'm almost tempted to try and do the patch as per the blueprint idea of not switching when something gains focus by mouse over14:51
ginghow come the latest vbox releases are never in the repositories?14:59
gordpenguin42, if we're talking about unity, already passed ui freeze14:59
penguin42gord: Yeh I guessed, I'd just ppa it anyway - if I do it; or I might just dump unity15:00
popeyging: there is a virtual box repo of their own15:00
smittixReet all15:07
smittixAnyone any good with images?15:07
smittixWas messing with my Fuji S1800 yesterday and caught something weird.15:07
gingi aint falling for that one again15:08
gingsomeone else look for me15:08
smittixIt's not a rick roll or anything15:09
gingsomething far far worse?15:09
mgdmit'll be one of those ones that swaps it out for something 'scary' after a few seconds?15:09
mgdmor something similarly tedious?15:09
smittixNope, Just a Jpeg15:09
popeywhere in that picture is the 'ghost'?15:11
smittixabove the TV15:11
gingi dont really get it, unless it's the smudge on the wall, which without ever being in your house i've no idea if it is normally there or not15:11
smittixif you zoom into it15:11
smittixNothing there on the wall15:11
mgdmlooks like a reflection off one of the pictures on the mantlepiece, or sometihng15:12
popeywell, given ghosts don't exist, I'd imagine a compression artifact, something on the lens, the ccd or as mgdm says, reflection15:13
gingpopey: you complain when i troll then you go a quite litterally leave the door open like that15:14
popeysaying ghosts don't exist is trolling?15:15
tugrikany suggestions on how to start an xserver on a remote host, that I can remotely access using x11vnc, but that isn't viewable from the host itself?15:15
gingno but me arguing that they do would have been15:15
brobostigoni agree with popey, he is right, in stating fact.15:15
mgdmYou should learn to contain yourself15:16
popeytugrik: vncserver15:16
MyrttiI vote for reflection15:16
gingmgdm: well i did it was hard but it did15:16
shaunoI vote swamp gas / weather balloon combo15:16
brobostigonshauno: that reminds me of MIB.15:17
tugrikaaahhhhh, cheers popey, didn't realise that was essentially a separate display15:17
tugrikand meanwhile I vote for a balloon full of swamp gas too15:17
mgdmtugrik: refracting the light from Venus?15:17
tugriksurely "uranus" mgdm ?15:18
popey*honk* *honk*15:18
mgdmCaution: comedy genius at work15:18
gingi clearly watch too much rolling news, i feel compelled to offer an oposing view point even when it is clearly pointless15:18
tugrikanyway to get vncserver to listen on localhost only?15:19
smittixweird anyways15:19
gingtugrik: could do it with iptables rules15:19
Myrttix11vnc -listen localhost15:19
philHi all.15:19
popeyhello phil15:20
tugrikwant to avoid iptables ging15:20
popeyooo handy Myrtti15:20
tugrikand Myrtti  - that connects to an existing X display doesn't it?15:20
philAm on Ubuntu 10.04.  I used Firefox 3.6 up until now.15:20
Myrttitugrik: by default, if not configured otherwise15:20
gingyeah you could do it the easy15:20
philHave just tried FF4.0, but I'm having font rendering problems.15:20
MyrttiI run mine x11vnc -scale 2/3 -listen localhost -display :015:21
philHave there been reports of other people having font rendering problems with FF4/Ubuntu/Linux?15:21
popeydunno phil15:21
popeyphil: how did you install ff4?15:21
philpopey: Are you using FF4.0?15:21
popeyyes phil15:21
gingis FF4 still beta?15:21
philpopey: downloaded the binary and ran from the command line.15:21
lubotu3Firefox 4 is the current stable version of Firefox. Current versions of Ubuntu do not have it (see !latest), but there is an unofficial and unsupported PPA that you can use by running the following command: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:mozillateam/firefox-stable && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install firefox15:21
philging: No, no longer in Beta.15:22
popeyphil: better off using the ppa15:22
philOk, will try that15:22
gingwell how come i dont have it?15:22
popeyging: read what lubotu3 just said15:22
mgdmI'm awfully tempted to get a Kinect despite not having an XBox15:22
gingis it not considered stable enough on ubuntu to be rolled out? or did they just leave it because 11.04 is due out soon anyway?15:24
philThat worked!  Must be the firefox-gnome support or something15:24
popeyno ging15:24
philBrillian!  Thanks guys!15:24
popeyging: re-read what it says15:24
lubotu3Packages in Ubuntu may not be the latest. Ubuntu aims for stability, so "latest" may not be a good idea. Post-release updates are only considered if they are fixes for security vulnerabilities, high impact bug fixes, or unintrusive bug fixes with substantial benefit. See also !backports, !sru, and !ppa.15:24
philThanks lubotu315:25
tugrikgah, "Xvnc -localhost" still opens up something on port 600015:25
popeygreat phil15:25
mgdmpopey: ta for that PPA link, I'd used the tarball which is less than ideal15:25
philYeah... should always remember to use the repositories...15:25
philThanks again!  I'm off....15:25
tugrikXvnc -nevershared -localhost -nolisten tcp15:31
tugrikcheers for the first step on that popey15:31
smittixLooks weird when ran through a filter though15:34
smittixlooks like a nun15:35
shaunoIf you're up for editing it, it can look like whatever you want :)15:36
ginga square nun15:36
shaunoHeck, give me a smudge tool and I'll make it look like ... a wall!15:37
smittixI just ran it through a colour filter in gimp15:37
smittixeh well15:37
gingshauno: yeah but then conspiraciest would want to know what was hidden by the smudge tool, they wouldnt conclude that it was just a reflection of the ceiling reflected by a picture fram15:38
brobostigonhas someone got the google repo string for me please.15:47
Myrtti*burp* the best mince and macaroni bake EVAH15:53
mfraz74Considering putting the OEM version of Ubuntu 11.04 on a netbook. How do I access the menu to change to OEM install?15:54
hamitronyou using the alt cd?15:55
mfraz74no, a normal CD image on a USB stick15:55
hamitronnot 100% sure if it can be done with normal livecd15:56
mfraz74Did a OEM install of Kubuntu last month and that allowed me to do it by pressing F4 after setting the language, but I couldn't see that15:56
hamitronah, maybe can now15:57
mfraz74just saw 2 icons at the bottom of the screen15:57
lubotu3Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall - Don't want to use a CD? See http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate15:57
mattiTheOpenSourcerer: ;]16:01
TheOpenSourcererhey matti :-)16:01
popeymfraz74: press space when you see the 'man equals keyboard' thing on the screen16:05
mfraz74popey: thanks for that, it isn't very clear16:06
mfraz74probably best to wait until the final version is out anyway16:06
shaunodaubers: epic email.  I needed that.  ty.16:08
mfraz74For some reason it kept saying that I couldn't find the sound system even though Banshee could play music16:09
daubersshauno: yw :)16:16
mfraz74Was very shocked to hear that my team won 5 - 1 yesterday16:18
kaushalis there a channel for getting to know about Ubuntu Professional Certification ?16:20
kaushalor Mailing List ?16:20
popeykaushal: thats a canonical thing, so you're better off contacting them directly16:31
popeyi.e. it's not a community thing16:31
kaushalpopey: ok16:34
kaushalpopey: can i pvt message you ?16:34
popeyany time16:34
Seeker`bah, so annoying when devs say "we know there is a problem ,we won't fix it"16:43
bigcalmThat's when you get so fed up you a) fix it and submit a patch b) find an alternative application16:45
popeyi found an unfixed bug, friend said he'd fix it for _me_ but refused to contribute back16:48
ali1234but hang on16:49
shaunoCopyright assignment will do that :/16:49
ali1234wouldn't he have to give you the source16:49
popeyhe has16:50
ali1234well there you go then, what's the problem?16:50
popeyfixes it for me, nobody else16:50
popeyand I have to keep putting that patch in my system and rebuilding16:51
ali1234well you could always... send the patch to upstream16:51
popeyi could16:51
popeybut its his code16:51
popey(c) him16:51
ali1234and why is this a problem?16:51
popeyhe doesnt want to sign over his copyright to canonical16:51
ali1234oh, so in other words, canonical rfuses to accept his contribution?16:51
ali1234once again, why is this a problem?16:52
popeywell, i guess you could look at it like that16:52
penguin42copyright assignments vary depending on project16:52
ali1234yes, i am aware of that16:52
popeyit's a patch for ubuntu software centre, which is a canonical thing16:52
popeyso he would have to sign over his copyright to them16:52
penguin42some projects require copyright assignments, some don't16:52
popeywhich he doesnt want to do16:52
ali1234perfectly reasonable16:52
shaunoIt's pretty normal for copyright to _not_ change hands without employment or payment.16:54
penguin42shauno: Most of the GNU projects require assignment16:55
shaunoI'd still call that abnormal, in the grand scale of things. Although I do trust that the worst GNU will do is go v316:56
hamitronif you sign copyright over they could release a closed source project with the code16:56
ali1234hamitron: that's exactly what oracle have done with "open" office16:57
hamitronI didn't know that, but I don't trust any of them16:57
ali1234sun collected all the copyright assignments, everything was fine, then oracle bought the lot and relicenced it16:57
ali1234it's why there is now a libreoffice16:58
hamitroneveryone is out to get me....16:58
hamitron1 problem is libreoffice16:58
hamitronif the project leaders ever wanted to change license, the code they branched is locked to the license16:58
ali1234what do you mean?16:59
hamitronand oracle still control it ultimately16:59
hamitronbranching an open source project lets you keep that license only, not change it later17:00
hamitronto re-license you need copyrights17:00
ali1234they do in fact control it ultimately, since they have all the copyright assignments (sun were very dilligent in collecting them)17:00
shaunooracle control anything post-takeover17:00
penguin42some of the assignment processes actually make sure that you have the right to contribute the code; e.g. does your empolyer (however unreasonably) claim any code you right in your own time?17:01
shaunoanything that was licensed openly, can be continued under that license17:01
shaunopenguin42: I believe your employer can claim anything that was written on their time/dime.  anything outside of that is up to your contract17:01
hamitronlibreoffice is GPLv2 "and later"?17:02
penguin42shauno: Depends on country; I was told they can claim everything that's even vaguely related whenever you did it17:02
ali1234hamitron: no, it's LGPL 317:02
penguin42shauno: So if you're a computer programmer for a company chances are they might be technically able to claim copyright17:02
shaunoI believe here (not UK) that's only the case if it relies on anything that I wouldn't know without that employment17:03
hamitronali1234: but it has the text that allows it to move to newer revisions?17:03
ali1234you'd have to look on the source code17:03
ali1234there is no newer version than version 317:03
penguin42shauno: I'm in the UK and was told it's basically anything vaguely related17:03
hamitronyeh, just if there was a need for version 4, due to some legal reason17:04
hamitronI remember reading about the linux kernel and it been restricted to GPLv217:04
* jacobw is back from howduino17:04
shaunoI think writing anything vaguely related to your day job without something in writing is just pretty much sketchy17:05
shaunothe kernel is 'stuck' with v2 because they'd have a hellish time, if even possible, of tracking down every contributor17:05
shaunothat's the 'pro' of copyright assignment.  you avoid that issue.  the con, is whether you trust the next choice in license.17:06
ali1234it's version 3 only17:06
penguin42shauno: And because some people would object to it being v3 - v3 is spooking a lot of companies17:06
hamitronexactly shauno17:06
ali1234shauno: no, the kernel is stuck with version 2 only because linus hates freedom :)17:06
shaunoali1234: I do believe he'd have to drop a lot of existing contributions to move to 317:06
MyrttiLinus ♥17:07
shaunothat'd be a helluva audit17:07
ali1234he is against it idealogically and has said so many times :)17:07
hamitronif Linus had made everyone sign copyrights over, wouldn't be a problem.... unless he is some evil dude wanting to wreck all our lives ;)17:07
shaunohamitron: exactly.  with companies, you add more vectors.  what's up for sale if they have to declare bankruptcy, etc17:07
hamitronshauno: I suppose if he had personally owned it, someone like Apple would of been able to take it17:09
shaunoI think popey's friend is making a perfectly sane choice.  They know what their contribution is, who owns it, and what it's worth - _if_ they retain it.17:09
hamitronperhaps OS X would be based on linux17:09
shaunoheh.  fat chance :)17:09
hamitronI mean, they could of got the copyrights17:10
hamitronor anyone with patents I suppose17:10
penguin42shauno: He should have known the copyright and assignment for contribution before fixing it17:10
ali1234um why?17:11
ali1234you're saying he shouldn't fix it for himself and anyone else who *is* willing to accept his contribution?17:11
penguin42ali1234: I'm not saying shouldn't, I'm saying it would be worth looking first17:11
shaunopenguin42: it sounds like he did.  it sounds like he's not against sharing his fix.  It sounds like canonical would be free to accept it if their terms didn't get in the way17:11
penguin42shauno: Those terms are well known, it's not their problem at that point17:12
ali1234seems like it's not anyone problem17:12
shaunohe's still free to fix it, and share that fix, under the license he received the code under.  it's not a problem for him17:12
penguin42ali1234: It puts popey in an odd position; he's now seen the source code to a fix; if he decided to fix it himself and contribute it back it would be arguable that it was based on some code that wasn't assigned17:13
shaunothat canonical won't accept the fix for wider distribution is their business17:13
ali1234penguin42: yeah, sad, ain't it?17:13
ali1234the question is, who is being hurt by this?17:13
ali1234the answer: canonical and their customers, and nobody else17:14
penguin42ali1234: popey17:14
shaunoon one side, no-one.  on the other side, everyone who doesn't receive the fix because canonical won't / can't accept it17:14
gordi wasn't that fussed about ubuntu not being accepted for google summer of code, but i just learnt that reactos has been... geez17:14
hamitronhas reactos moved on much?17:14
jacobwnot much17:15
hamitronlast I heard, they were reviewing all code17:15
jacobwin my opinion reactos is the most pointless thing since gentoo :p17:15
shaunoreactos is still stuck where aros is.  "pointless"17:15
gordlast i heard it was using mostly wine code anyway17:15
hamitronif reactos worked, it could be cool17:15
shaunoit's wine with a kernel & a shell17:16
shaunothey'd have made a bigger impact if they're wrote a kernel for emacs, tbh17:16
hamitronyeh, but the idea of running a huge collection of existing software is good17:16
jacobwsort of defeats the aim of free software though..17:16
shaunoideas rock.  reality sucks.17:16
hamitronimo, linux for gamers either needs to: 1) perfect wine OR 2) get native games provided17:17
hamitronsame for a few other bits of software too17:18
hamitronto be a complete replacement, it must do everything as well17:18
shaunothat's been done, done, and done17:19
shaunothe real problem is; everyone who whines about no games on linux needs to buy the ones that appear17:19
shaunodarwinia rocks.  buy it.  uplink sucks.  buy it anyway.17:19
hamitronI always give priority to games and apps that don't need to be bought twice for multiple platforms17:20
shaunosteam is rocking for that on the mac.  I hope they show up natively on linux one day17:20
shaunobut that company .. Loki I think?17:21
hamitronthese linux game publishers never attracted me, because I refuse to pay twice17:21
shaunono-one actually bought anything17:21
hamitronloki is one17:21
hamitronUT3 upset me17:22
shaunodon't pay twice.  pirate the windows knowing you're in the moral right for all I care.17:22
shauno(*windows version)17:22
gordshauno, eh i love uplink17:22
hamitronI don't agree with pirating ;/17:22
shaunobut if you refuse to pay twice, and only buy the windows version; you're defeating yourself17:22
shaunohamitron: I think if you've bought it on one platform, paying for another isn't pirating.  this may not be legal, but I believe it's moral17:22
hamitronit is breaking the license the publisher has given17:23
hamitronI personally don't buy either17:23
jacobwhow can you not believe in pirating :|17:23
shaunogord: I didn't like it at all.  I bought it because I was amazed I found a box in HMV with a penguin on it.  but it wasn't my cup of tea17:23
hamitronUT2k4 is the best imo17:23
hamitronscript on the disk, worked out of the box17:24
shaunoUT:GOTY here17:24
* jacobw does agree the sensible thing is not to buy in the first place17:24
gorddid epic ever get around to releasing that version of unreal 3 that worked on linux, they were promicing that for years...17:24
hamitronshauno: does it have the scriupt on disk?17:24
hamitrongord: I am still waiting17:24
hamitronand not buying till they do17:24
shaunohamitron: I believe the GOTY disc did, the original disk didn't17:24
hamitronI have the GOTY version17:25
shaunoand I believe the right thing is to buy the linux version.  beg/borrow/steal whatever platforms you need, but put your money where you want it.17:25
hamitron2 disks, it has the high quality texture pack17:25
hamitronI think WoW missed a trick17:25
shaunobuy it on the platform you want it on, acquire it on platforms you require it on17:26
hamitronVMware Workstation license isn't restricted to 1 host OS either17:26
shaunoif you're gonna buy it either way, make your buck a vote.17:26
hamitronI was glad to see17:26
=== denny- is now known as denny
Myrttioh lordy http://twitter.com/#!/mikkohypponen/status/5204339340411699217:27
hamitronI have bought a lot of windows games and a copy of windows though :/17:27
jacobwMyrtti: lol17:28
shaunoI think it's a shame blizzard (WoW et al) don't support linux.  because their mac support is first-tier17:30
hamitronI'd better take a break before I waste money on more of them thin clients17:30
hamitronyeh :/17:30
shaunoI still from the same retail box the windows users do.  I get everything at the same time windows users do17:30
shaunostill?  *install17:30
shaunoI don't get patches so much as 5 minutes later than windows users do.  it's fantastic17:31
hamitronsuppose linux has too many configs to support17:31
hamitronbe a nightmare17:31
shaunoin theory, it's not that bad17:32
shaunothe less platform you depend on (libc & opengl), the better.  it does work.17:32
hamitron1 reason I like statically compiled stuff ;)17:34
hamitronbut then you have licensing issues17:35
hamitrongone ;)17:36
dutchiedark blue forever :D17:37
directhexevery day in every way, mono packaging impresses me17:40
mgdmhow now?17:40
bigcalmmgdm: what's your IDE of choice?17:42
mgdmbigcalm: Vim17:42
mgdmor Netbeans if I must have an actual IDE17:43
mgdmIt's what I use 90% of the time, unless I'm in Eclipse doing Android17:43
bigcalmI do like function navigation17:43
mgdmbut Eclipse makes me want to lob it into the Clyde17:43
bigcalmI'm surprised the Eclipse is still the 'best' thing out there17:44
directhexmgdm, we're down to 11.2 meg for a minimal install17:44
directhexmgdm, compare to a minimal jre17:44
mgdmdirecthex: nice17:44
mgdmbigcalm: Nah, IMO Netbeans > Eclipse17:44
bigcalmdirecthex: monodev - only useful for mono or will it cater for other syntaxes as well?17:44
directhexmgdm, it's 16.3 on current packages17:44
mgdmEclipse is big, bloated, slow, confusing, crashy, slow, confusing, slow, bloated, crashy, and slow17:45
directhexbigcalm, monodevelop? the only first-class citizen is c#. but there is support for about 8 other languages, including C, C++, Java, Python, Vala17:45
bigcalmPHP JS XHTML?17:45
directhex... not those. patches welcome!17:45
bigcalmI might give it a go, just for something different17:46
bigcalmI asume that monodevelop was written in mono? ;)17:46
directhexbasically, the gui designer only works for c#. and i'm not sure which languages have intellisense17:46
mgdmbigcalm: Nah, Java. :P17:46
directhexbigcalm, monodevelop is written in c#17:46
bigcalmOh ffs17:46
directhexmgdm, not so mad - microsoft#s c# compiler is written in c, not c#17:46
mgdmOh, didn't know that17:46
mgdmI'd've assumed they'd have had a self-hosting one by now17:47
directhexmgdm, planned for .net 517:47
mgdmMono's compiler is self-hosting, though?17:47
dauberspopey: Seen the cartoons in the latest LXF?17:48
directhexmgdm, first thing that ever existed in mono was the compiler, self-hosting on ms.net before the mono classlib began17:49
mgdmI remembered correctly, then \o/17:50
directhexi'm gonna go hack on XSP whilst lying on the bed, pretending i have a garden to enjoy17:50
gingis there a way i can make gnome terminal on ubuntu cache my ssh key passphrase?17:51
gingit seems to do it on my laptop but nothing else and i dont know how i set it up17:51
* mgdm is reading up on structure from motion and other exciting computer vision stuff17:51
penguin42mgdm: Cool - I don't know if it's any good, but have you looked at opencv (open computer vision)17:53
mgdmpenguin42: yup - I'm currently working on https://github.com/mgdm/OpenCV-for-PHP17:53
penguin42mgdm: Cool17:54
pr0ph3thi all17:58
pr0ph3tis there a way to redirect stdout to a custom log file at boot?17:59
penguin42stdout from what?17:59
popeydaubers: no?18:03
pr0ph3tpenguin42, all the boot process basically18:04
ali1234pr0ph3t: dmesg18:06
pr0ph3tali1234, it looks like it's skipping some steps18:07
ali1234probably, it's only for kernel messages18:07
pr0ph3tfrom 3 seconds it jumps to 16 seconds18:07
ali1234if you want to know why your boot freezes for 13 seconds you should use bootchart18:08
pr0ph3tali1234, that's what I just installed18:08
pr0ph3tbut it's not really straight forward is it18:09
ali1234um. yes?18:09
ali1234just look at the image it generates?18:09
pr0ph3tit doesn't :S18:11
* AlanBell hugs ali1234 http://votegeek.org.uk/18:18
ali1234AlanBell: i just found another bug: it never clears the old circles when it draws new ones18:19
ali1234need to empty all the children from the triangle before starting to draw18:19
AlanBellyeah, I know about that one18:19
AlanBellkind of nice the way you see it overwriting them line by line though18:20
AlanBellbut a bit of a memory hog18:20
pr0ph3t1.26 seconds to boot :S18:20
ali1234looks like chromium is about 3x faster (couldn't test before due to xss errors)18:20
AlanBellcould give them all an id and delete the old ones as it writes the new ones18:21
ali1234just empty the children18:21
ali1234what is 1.26 seconds?18:21
MartijnVdSthe empty child? Are you my mummy?18:21
* bigcalm shudders18:22
pr0ph3tali1234, boot time according to bootchart18:23
MartijnVdSbigcalm: have you seen the new prequel?18:23
ali1234pr0ph3t: oh sorry, you're the same colour as AlanBell on my irc :)18:23
MartijnVdSbigcalm: is it Easter yet? :)18:23
bigcalmMartijnVdS: no, but I heard somebody mutter about it.18:23
bigcalmMartijnVdS: thing is, he's a time lord, how do you have a prequel?18:23
MartijnVdSbigcalm: it's real Moffat scary again18:23
pr0ph3twhat an honour18:23
MartijnVdSbigcalm: it's "getting the audience ready for the new series"18:24
MartijnVdSbigcalm: with a few 1.5-minute shorts18:24
bigcalmMoving it away from a children's tv prog?18:24
pr0ph3tyou're all green to me18:24
MartijnVdSbigcalm: no it's still a children's prog, they're just building up tension :)18:24
s_hhi. does anybody else have problems with firestarter-1.0.3-7ubuntu5 ?18:32
s_hit seems to be broken18:32
s_hafter system update18:32
dauberspopey: They reference mumbuntu18:40
dauberspopey: Yup18:42
popeygot a scan/photo?18:42
dauberscan do18:42
dauberspopey: http://daubers.co.uk/~matt/piccymum.jpg18:44
brobostigonmumbuntu (copyright), popey18:46
dauberspopey: You should drop them an email with a link to your presentation :)18:46
ali1234lol @ people writing in to say they don't want a coverdisc18:47
ali1234seriously who even burns isos to blank discs any more?18:48
ali1234you don't use usb instead?18:49
mgdmI have more blank CDs than spare flash drives18:52
moreatio/ because I use ISOs so rarely and I now CDs work, I don't know how well USB works with whatever BIOS configurations are out there18:53
Myrttimwhahahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQHX-SjgQvQ19:04
bigcalmShame about the canned laughter19:07
directhex* graham linehan descends & smites bigcalm19:08
popeyi was about to say that19:08
bigcalmOver my head sadly19:08
popeyhe writes comedy19:09
bigcalmHe does indeed19:09
bigcalmVery good comedy19:09
popeyhe gets quite annoyed when people moan about canned laughter, because mostly it isnt19:09
popey(canned that is)19:09
directhexfilmed in front of a live studio audience. audiences sometimes laugh at jokes19:09
bigcalmThat's understandable19:09
bigcalmBut, take M*A*S*H19:10
popeysome shows they play the video to the audience19:12
popeyi like that youtube vid btw Myrtti19:12
bigcalmCan you stop xmarks from responding to keyboard shortcuts?19:29
bigcalmI'm used to using shift+control+y to inspect CSS on elements with web dev tool bar19:29
bigcalmXmarks has decided that it will nab that key binding now though19:29
HazRPGI love how sometimes my days just turn into random unexpectedness19:31
HazRPGMartijnVdS: o/19:31
MartijnVdSHazRPG: ok, what's her name? :P19:31
HazRPGhaha not quite :P19:32
brobostigonwb HazRPG :)19:32
HazRPGbrobostigon: thanks :)19:32
MartijnVdSHazRPG: then it wasn't _real_ random unexpectedness (or you were expecting it)19:32
HazRPGnah, was only meant to drop my friend who passed out at mine last night off home... ended up getting iced lollies, and caffeinated beverages... ringing up another of my primary school friends... and sitting in the garden with coffee :)19:34
MartijnVdS♫ Today was a good day19:34
HazRPGthen ended up drinking to PC world random (a woman that doesn't admit she's a tad geeky, but asks to see new hardware... doesn't make sense!)... and getting food, and then driving around aimlessly... then finally dropping off my mate at work, and then the other lass at home19:35
HazRPGdriving** (although we were drinking energy drinks on the way)19:36
HazRPGMartijnVdS: haha19:36
MartijnVdS\o/ Ice Cube  :)19:37
Azelphurare there any mobile providers that do 3g sticks that don't expire your purchases at the end of the month?19:57
AzelphurIt'd be cool to pick up a 3g stick to use as a fallback internet connection :p19:57
FanshaweHey fellas. Got a problem with my filesystem on my laptop. Running from Live CD and nothing's working. I'm suspecting a hardware failure. Any way to verify this?19:57
MartijnVdSAzelphur: We actually sell that here in .nl :)19:58
AzelphurFanshawe: system > administration > disk utility > select drive > SMART19:58
MartijnVdSAzelphur: 3G stick you stick in your DSL modem, when DSL drops, 3G takes over19:58
AzelphurMartijnVdS: yea that's pretty much what I want, my router is DD-WRT so it shouldn't be too amazingly difficult to do19:58
Azelphurbut over here all the providers expire your topups :/19:59
Azelphurif you buy 10GB after 30 days if you havn't used it you loose it19:59
MartijnVdSAzelphur: annoying19:59
Azelphurindeed :(19:59
MartijnVdSAzelphur: Vodafone has a special plan for low use here19:59
MartijnVdSAzelphur: it costs €5/day (for a few MB only), but only on days that you use it19:59
FanshaweAzelphur: I'm in the disk utility now. Where there would normally be my filesystem (/dev/sda1) there is now 'Unknown'. I'm not sure where your SMART option is.19:59
MartijnVdSAzelphur: and any money you add to your account with them doesn't expire for a year20:00
AzelphurFanshawe: when you click on the hard drisk in the disk utility, on the right side under serial number etc, above the big bar showing unknown, there should be a SMART Data button20:00
AzelphurMartijnVdS: silly expiries, I wonder why they get away with that legally20:01
FanshaweAzelphur: Ah. SMART status: Not supported.20:01
AzelphurFanshawe: woa, old drive I guess :p20:01
FanshaweWhat's weird is, this filesystem was working not long ago. Earlier today, in fact.20:01
FanshaweIt stopped after a crash.20:01
FanshaweHence why I'm thinking hardware failure...20:02
FanshaweOr if I'm lucky, I've just done something horrendously (but fixably) wrong.20:02
Azelphurwhat's the model of the drive?20:02
Azelphuroh it's an SSD :p20:04
brobostigonsame as in my eeepc.20:04
FanshaweYeah, I should've mentioned. It's a netbook, an old eepc 900.20:04
Azelphurbrobostigon: does your one support SMART?20:05
FanshaweIt used to be trusty, before it, you know, bricked.20:05
brobostigonAzelphur: no idea, in truth,20:05
Azelphurmy SSD supports SMART but it's a high performance corsair :P20:05
Azelphurbrobostigon: fire up disk utility and look? :P20:05
brobostigonAzelphur: one minute.20:05
Azelphurty :)20:05
brobostigonAzelphur: it says not supported, sorry.20:06
FanshaweThanks for checking, brobostigon20:06
Azelphuryea, that explains that then :)20:06
brobostigonFanshawe: youre welcome,20:06
AzelphurFanshawe: any important data on there?20:07
FanshaweOnly the OS. All of my files are on another, separate SSD.20:07
AzelphurI'd start playing with reinstalling then and see what you get20:07
brobostigoni should say, i am running under natty, incase software makes any difference,20:08
Azelphurnah probably not, probably just a cheap EEE SSD with no smart support :)20:08
Azelphurmakes sense20:09
FanshaweYeah, this little netbook's a bit long in the tooth.20:09
popeyFanshawe: known issue...20:09
FanshaweKnown issue?20:09
Azelphurpopey: disappearing filesystems or lack of smart?20:10
popeybug 38727220:10
lubotu3Launchpad bug 387272 in linux (Ubuntu) "[karmic] long boot time on eee 900 (dup-of: 445852)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38727220:10
lubotu3Launchpad bug 445852 in libatasmart "devkit-disks-probe-ata-smart causes HSM Violations on SSD, and potential hardware death" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44585220:10
popeythe second one20:10
brobostigonpopey: they dont seem present yet in natty,that i have seen.20:10
jhanafrogi'm visiting the UK from California :)20:10
popeywhat version of ubuntu are you using Fanshawe ?20:11
FanshaweCool. Welcome, jhanafrog.20:11
Fanshawepopey: 10.10.20:11
brobostigonyep, i had hsm violations in 10.10 aswell.20:11
FanshaweAre you telling me Ubuntu killed my netbook?20:11
popeyi would read the bug report20:12
brobostigonyes, that will make it clearer.20:12
jhanafrogi take it libatasmart is a kernel dependency required for compilation?20:13
czajkowskisaw this at the weekend20:14
czajkowskirather tempted to buy it20:14
FanshaweThis bug report is a bit overwhelming. All I really want to know is if the hardware's buggered.20:14
czajkowskithere are a lot of threads on it on ubuntu though20:14
brobostigonFanshawe: no, it isnt,20:14
jhanafroghow big is the screen czajkowski?20:15
Fanshawebrobostigon: Thank you and that is awesome.20:15
brobostigonFanshawe: can i make a suggestion,20:15
czajkowskiThe 10.1-inch, 1.9-pounder20:15
brobostigonFanshawe: i dont get those errors anymore in natty, would it  be possibleto try natty on said machine?20:16
FanshaweNatty being20:16
brobostigonFanshawe: natty is the development version of ubuntu due out, end of next month,20:17
lubotu3Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04, due April 28 2011. Help and support (only) in #ubuntu+1. Natty is unstable and is not intended for production systems.20:17
FanshaweAhh, I see.20:17
popeyits not as simple as that20:17
popeyif the disk has already had a dodgy version of ubuntu on it, then just installing another version on top rarely fixes it20:17
popey(I have a broken eee 900)20:17
brobostigonpopey: i know it isnt, but i just thought, it would be goodto see, if its  stillthere or not,20:18
FanshaweI'll happily do whatever I have to, to get this little thing running again20:18
brobostigonpopey: in which case i would dd the disk with zeroes, and start from scratch20:18
brobostigonpopey: startfrom there.20:19
jhanafrogi don't get why the error is happening.  i'm sure some ssd drives work fine.  is it something in the firmware, or what?20:19
Fanshawebrobostigon: You have now gone far, far above my head.20:19
brobostigonFanshawe: ask popey,he  will be able to explain it, muchbetter than me,20:19
jhanafrogi'm wondering why deleting partitions and reformatting isn't sufficient20:20
brobostigonFanshawe: sorry, i am not good explaining these things.20:21
FanshaweThat's alright, brobostigon, you may have just prevented me from throwing the damn thing in the bin20:22
jhanafrogFanshawe: man dd20:22
jhanafrogit's just a way of writing to a disk20:22
jhanafrogin very simplistic terms :)20:22
zleapDevon and cornwall Lug meeting next Saturday (2nd April)20:23
brobostigonpopey: you havedone more work ontht bug, could you guide them, please.20:23
popeyFanshawe: throw it in the bin :)20:25
Fanshawe... Bugger.20:25
popeyyou can try wiping and reinstalling of course20:25
FanshaweI'll try whatever.20:26
FanshaweWhatever it takes, really.20:26
jhanafrogFanshawe: i would try installing the other linux you have20:26
jhanafrogthe one that came with the eeepc if you have it.20:26
FanshaweSeems like a logical step, jhanafrog. I even have a copy of the ISO that the previous owner originally used.20:27
brobostigonor something really baisc like a version of debian20:27
jhanafrogbetter yet, try creating a natty live iso20:27
jhanafrogtest that first?20:27
popeyi dont think thats wise20:28
jhanafrognatty wouldn't boot on my system20:28
popeynatty isnt finished yet20:28
* brobostigon is playing the odds.20:28
jhanafroghmmm, yeah it is safer to use the other iso20:28
jhanafrogthe weird thing is that the live usb boots just fine on the disk, just when it installs it doesn't boot right.  weird.20:29
FanshaweAlright, thank you, chaps. I'll be trying out the old ISO and reporting back soon.20:29
brobostigonFanshawe: good luck,20:29
jhanafrogcool Fanshawe :)20:29
jhanafrogmay the force be with you20:29
FanshaweQuestion: Should I do anything with the drive before attempting to install from another Live CD?20:32
zleapi wish it was,  it would make getting people to use ubuntu easier,  me: you will use ubuntu ,  other person, I will use Ubuntu20:32
zleapjedi mind trick would be useful20:32
brobostigonFanshawe: iwould simply re'partition it normally, and if not, dd the whole thing,20:34
BigRedSAny lighttpd users? I'm trying to work out how to work out which file it was looking for when it returns a 40420:47
BigRedSApache sticks that in the log, lighttpd doesn't appear to by default20:47
=== james is now known as Guest96219
=== christian is now known as Guest79837
brobostigonbbc2. wonders of the universe, now.21:00
gordmay have spent all day playing 3ds.. the world seems so.... flat.. now21:27
directhexgord, play some 3d games on your ps3!21:28
popeyso what do we do with buckets and water on this checkerboard?21:31
popeyother channel :)21:32
hamitronpsu so on the limit, can't even take a case fan21:41
hamitronfails to boot :/21:41
hamitrononce I remove 4 of the hdd, be ok21:44
g5236m@search harry potter21:56
Azelphur!piracy | g5236m21:56
lubotu3g5236m: piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o21:56
gordheh, needed to pay some council tax online, fill in the form and at the end it tells you to check your details. of course for security it *'s out all your details apart from the last word ;)21:56
hamitronAzelphur: he could be searching for the cinema release date of the last film? ;)21:57
gordy'know, i find myself printing off web pages to pdf whenever i want to save recepts and such. why can't web browers just have a "set in stone" Button or something that basically does the same thing but keeps it in searchable memory21:58
hamitrondon't they?21:58
ali1234pdfs are searchable21:58
ali1234hamitron: they don't really, cos too much javascript nonsense21:59
ali1234i've got a system that can archive websites fully21:59
ali1234it works by intercepting all outgoing http requests and archiving everything21:59
gordwell for now you just print to pdf, thats fine, but i'd rather not go through the charade of pretending that i'm printing it21:59
ali1234i haven't written the part that actually reassembles the page yet22:00
hamitronhow you print to pdf?22:00
hamitronI had something installed for it before22:00
gordi just want to say "Please archive this page, but in a way that does not let it change because of javascript/web sillyness"22:00
ali1234select pdf22:00
hamitronI assume it doesn't work in winblows22:00
ali1234only if you install acrobat22:00
ali1234then you get the pdf printer driver22:00
ali1234windows by default has "print to xps"22:01
ali1234god knows what an xps is22:01
hamitronends in .xps? ;)22:01
ali1234some microsoft rip off of pdf probably22:01
ali1234well, pdf is a close relative of postscript, xps is probably "microsoft eXtended post script (incompatible with everything ever)"22:01
hamitron"lets see how little we can add to break things"22:02
hamitronthe UUID of a drive is unique to the drive, nothing to do with the interface?22:03
hamitronguessing so, it boots22:07
BigRedShamitron: unique to the partition22:09
BigRedSstatistically, though. There's no central register, just vastly more UUIDs than partitions in teh world22:09
hamitronI meant that, sloppy writing :/22:09
gordyou don't need more uuids than partitions in the world even, just more uuid's than partitions in a single system22:11
hamitronI've always cursed the UUID, for not been readable22:12
hamitronbut I've actually benefited from it this time22:12
hamitronanyways, time for coffee while data is copying22:14
BigRedShaha, it's one of those things that does come in handy ocasionally22:14
BigRedSbut is irrating more often :)22:14
popeyblimey if people think #ubuntu goes by too fast, they should see #twitlive22:24
bigcalmNot on this server...22:25
popeyirc.twit.tv iirc22:25
bigcalmI see22:25
hamitronthe clue is in the name, for the types of people who use it ;/22:29
popeyits bonkers22:30
AlanBellpresumably that is during a live recording22:31
popeythey have over 1000 people online right now22:31
popeyhmm, their chat might be limited to 100022:31
hamitronhow is best to reduce power drawn from the psu?22:33
hamitronset cpu to low speed, etc?22:33
directhexhamitron, depends on the psu design22:33
directhexhamitron, e.g. number of rails22:34
directhexhamitron, cheap will be single-rail22:34
hamitronit has 2 x 12V rails22:34
directhexah, dual rail. roughly equal distribution of devices on both?22:34
hamitron10A and 12A22:34
hamitronbut atm it doesn't provide enough power22:35
hamitronjust wanting it to run, don't need high performance22:35
hamitronmay try lowering voltages too22:36
Azelphurepicness, kupfer dev just patched in multi X support :D22:36
hamitronAzelphur: so your problem should be fixed?22:37
Azelphurmy kupfer problem? yea :p22:37
hamitrondunno wtf kupfer is ;/22:38
Azelphuryou know gnome-do?22:38
Azelphurhamitron: http://kaizer.se/wiki/kupfer/22:38
Azelphurbasically just ctrl+f type fi and by the time you've done that it probably figured out you want firefox :)22:39
hamitronwhat is wrong with alt+f2?22:39
AlanBellI have surprised my parents by turning up to stay the night, after they have filled out their census22:39
Azelphurhamitron: this is like alt+f2 on steroids22:39
Azelphurbasically :P22:39
hamitronhaha AB22:40
brobostigongood night everyone, sleep well.22:40
hamitronnn brob22:40
hamitronwell Azelphur22:40
hamitronsteriods is cheating imo ;)22:40
brobostigonnight hamitron22:41
Azelphurhamitron: it does math, you can install stuff from apt, launch applications, search your bookmarks, everything is in there22:41
Azelphurit's fancy :)22:41
hamitron<3 LXDE22:41
hamitronnot sure how well it will run on the thin client I ordered though22:42
hamitrondamn I am feeling good now, actually got myself shifted and comps are nearly sorted23:16
* penguin42 is working through trying to get cyanogenmod on his phone23:38
penguin42seems to be a lot of black magic involved23:39
penguin42anyone done it?23:40
BigRedSI did it on my G123:40
hamitronI'm a phone newb23:40
Azelphurpenguin42: I have cyanogen on my DZ, the latest version :)23:40
BigRedSnot much black magic, there's guides all over XDA developers, just follow them exactly23:40
BigRedS'just' :)23:40
* penguin42 has a ZTE blade23:41
Azelphurpenguin42: my mum has a ZTE Blade, I tried cyanogenmod last month and it was rather unstable23:41
Azelphurthe blade port hasn't been out very long at all23:42
Azelphurbut I assume you can cope with pulling the battery out every now and again when it freezes, let me know how you get on :)23:42
penguin42BigRedS: The instructions are somewhat random; for example I've got adb working good, it took me a while to find fastboot - everything tells me I want it but finding it was harder23:42
BigRedSI think it was simpler in my day - everything was linked to23:43
BigRedSthe instructions for Darky's on my Galaxy were similar, too23:43
penguin42and clockwordmod doesn't want to play ball23:44
directhexi'm on froydvillain 1.723:45
directhexon mah htc hewo!23:45
BigRedSmmm, clockwork's different to how it used to be23:45
BigRedSI kept only half-reading the instructions, and then wondering where it was23:46
hamitronwhy all the anti mono? ;/23:47
BigRedSI think it's mostly in jest23:47
directhexkoushik dutta, the guy behind clockwork mod, has been tinkering with mono for a while. he's got commits in mono itself now. and clockwork mod funds him.23:50
directhexand the anti-mono because it amuses me that some people really feel that way23:50

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