[00:00] <hamitron> hi guys
[00:00] <hamitron> :)
[00:21] <HazRPG> hamitron: sup dude
[00:21] <HazRPG> ah crap, its 12:30am!
[00:21] <HazRPG> should really be going to my mates leaving do!
[00:22] <hamitron> nvm him
[00:22] <hamitron> :)
[00:25] <HazRPG> loool
[00:26] <HazRPG> he's moving down south, he'll live miles away!
[00:26] <hamitron> where are you?
[00:26] <HazRPG> can't blame him, he's moving for a better car designing (CAD) job
[00:26] <HazRPG> cumbria
[00:26] <HazRPG> border of the scots/england divide
[00:26] <hamitron> I know where ;/
[00:27] <hamitron> but I suppose many here don't know of the north
[00:27] <hamitron> ;)
[00:27] <HazRPG> indeed
[00:27] <HazRPG> right, I'll be back in an hr or two... cos no doubt it'll be ending around then
[00:27] <hamitron> okies, have fun
[00:27] <HazRPG> inded
[00:28] <HazRPG> indeed*
[00:28] <HazRPG> catch ya later :)
[00:28] <HazRPG> \o bye all
[00:29] <HazRPG> oh crud, I should check where his new place is, iirc he moved house about 5 month ago!
[00:30] <shauno> bit late for a leaving do then
[00:30] <HazRPG> shauno: didn't get up till 11pm
[00:30] <shauno> I mean if he moved 5 months ago :p
[00:30] <HazRPG> heh
[00:31] <HazRPG> moved to a better area 5 months ago :P
[00:31] <hamitron> nice toy on boffer today#
[00:31] <hamitron> :)
[00:31] <HazRPG> now he's moving out of the city altogether in a weeks time
[00:31] <shauno> boffer?
[00:31] <hamitron> www.boffer.co.uk
[00:31] <shauno> ah
[00:32] <hamitron> upgrading my main comp
[00:32] <hamitron> ;)
[00:32] <hamitron> well, dev comp
[00:32] <HazRPG> 4th one on the right... I think I can remember that...
[00:32] <HazRPG> *poofs into a patch of smoke into the car*
[00:32] <HazRPG> \o later
[00:32] <hamitron> drinking an driving is bad
[00:32] <hamitron> ;/
[00:32] <hamitron> and*
[00:32] <HazRPG> hamitron: I barely drink dude :P
[00:33] <hamitron> ah, k
[00:33] <HazRPG> only drink on things like birthdays, holidays or festivals
[00:33] <HazRPG> but when I drink... I can REALLY drink
[00:33] <HazRPG> although, trying to keep up with my dad is a bad plan
[00:33] <HazRPG> ends up into a drinking competition and we both can barely stand up
[00:34] <hamitron> I never get like that tbh
[00:34] <hamitron> ;/
[00:34] <hamitron> like to retain ability to do as I please
[00:34] <HazRPG> heh, I only do it on holidays - and for some reason when me and my dad do it when never get handovers
[00:35] <HazRPG> s/when/we*
[00:35] <HazRPG> hamitron: so do I, that's the reason why I don't drink often... at most maybe 1 drink usually
[00:36] <HazRPG> anywho... ofski
[00:36] <hamitron> :)
[00:36] <HazRPG> \o
[00:36] <hamitron> o/
[00:37]  * hamitron spanks Azelphur
[00:37] <hamitron> sort out the comp earlier?
[02:00] <penguin42> interesting
[02:00] <hamitron> penguin42: ?
[02:00] <penguin42> the time on my panel is showing 01:00:54
[02:01] <penguin42> but date is correctly showing 02:00
[02:01] <hamitron> probably something to do with the hour number not getting updated each second?
[02:01] <matti> ;]
[02:02] <penguin42> it's 2 mins in and it's still there
[02:02] <hamitron> yeh
[02:02] <hamitron> update on the hour my guess
[02:02] <penguin42> problem is this machine isn't up to date - it's a week or so behind on natty so I guess it doesn't amke sense to repor tit
[02:03] <hamitron> maybe worth checking bug reports, see if it has been reported
[02:03] <hamitron> not the sort of thing that shows up
[02:04] <hamitron> but there again, for an hour, it is not worth getting %h variable each min
[02:04] <hamitron> if that is the problem
[02:07] <shauno> I kinda doubt that's it
[02:07] <shauno> you wouldn't usually write "updated the seconds 60 times.  then update the minutes and update the seconds another 60 times .."
[02:08] <hamitron> maybe not
[02:08] <shauno> you just keep doing strftime() on a regular basis
[02:08] <hamitron> just get a time at load time, than move it each second?
[02:09] <hamitron> see, I'd want to limit the call to such a function
[02:09] <shauno> I wouldn't.  that's what it's there for :)
[02:09] <hamitron> how often would it be called?
[02:09] <shauno> if you're showing seconds, atleast once a second
[02:10] <hamitron> suppose it isn't that heavy ;)
[02:11] <shauno> it's not as lossy as it sounds because libc is pretty much guaranteed to be in memory somewhere
[02:11] <hamitron> if it is too heavy for a system, that is the least of that persons worries
[02:11] <hamitron> ah, so it won't need to calc the format from the raw time in seconds?
[02:12] <shauno> well, that's what strftime does
[02:12] <hamitron> it is that conversion I would want to restrict
[02:12] <hamitron> :)
[02:12] <hamitron> but I suppose it is not a worry on modern machines such petty calcs
[02:13] <shauno> it wasn't a concern on my 16MHz amiga, I can't see why it'd be a concern on anything else made in the last 20 years
[02:13] <hamitron> hehe
[02:14] <shauno> (and anything slower than 16MHz has no place running gnome-panel :p )
[02:14] <hamitron> yeh
[02:14] <hamitron> hahaha
[02:16] <hamitron> that thin client pc I ordered sounds fast, after you mentioning this
[02:16] <hamitron> :)
[02:19] <shauno> hehe
[02:20] <shauno> my only problem with that would be that it's using an embedded linux, so it's a bit more difficult to just stick whatever you want on it
[02:20] <shauno> but for £8, what's the worst that can happen
[02:21] <hamitron> I intend to run embedded linux myself
[02:22] <hamitron> tbh, won't affect me as much as a lot of users in here
[02:22] <hamitron> I am considering replacing my p120 with 24mb ram with it
[02:22] <hamitron> :)
[02:22] <shauno> might keep an eye on that one, but that want £8 just to deliver here :/
[02:23] <hamitron> :/
[02:23] <hamitron> another option is just play with it and electronics
[02:23] <hamitron> :)
[02:23] <hamitron> and another.... to use it as my main system
[02:24] <hamitron> make everything else feel kinda cool
[02:25] <hamitron> tbh, I could of ordered 10 of them, and given each its own task :/
[02:25] <shauno> lol
[02:25] <hamitron> but gotta control ones self ;)
[02:28] <shauno> chilly tonight :/  downside of having clear skies
[02:29] <hamitron> I am glad for it
[02:29] <hamitron> my poor 350W psu is hurting with one of the comps here
[02:29] <shauno> sounds about right.  myself, I'm warmblooded :p
[02:30] <hamitron> (getting a bit hot)
[02:53] <shauno> can't believe it's 3am already.  I've done absolutely nothing productive at all yet
[02:53] <hamitron> me neither
[02:53] <hamitron> other than spend money
[02:53] <hamitron> :/
[02:54] <hamitron> kinda stuck though
[02:54] <hamitron> wanna move files off a comp with a scabby RAID 0 setup
[02:54] <hamitron> but network sharing is messed up
[02:55] <shauno> I meant to take a bash at my old tower tonight, then realised I don't have any wired keyboards in the house atm :/
[02:55] <hamitron> and a comp which was gonna be used as temp storage has stopped working
[02:55] <hamitron> :/
[02:55] <hamitron> I don't have any wireless ones ;)
[02:56] <shauno> I've just got one that I drag from machine to machine, but I left it at work because the one they gave me is pants
[02:56] <hamitron> my new keyboard is one of those skype ones off boffer
[02:56] <hamitron> :)
[02:57] <hamitron> pack of 5 :/
[02:57] <hamitron> so plenty to nibble at
[02:59] <hamitron> I want one :D http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lower-Upper-case-USB-PS2-Coloured-PC-Keyboard_W0QQitemZ270688894210QQcategoryZ33964QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m8QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D6%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8021067016821701839#ht_1499wt_905
[03:03] <hamitron> crap
[03:03] <hamitron> grand prix tomorrow
[03:04] <hamitron> in 2 hours
[03:04] <hamitron> :(
[03:04] <hamitron> should of had an early night
[03:04] <hamitron> all nighter time
[03:05] <hamitron> :D
[03:05] <hamitron> 3 hours I mean
[03:07] <shauno> 3's enough for a nap :)
[03:09] <hamitron> I'd never bother getting up
[03:09] <hamitron> haha
[03:09] <hamitron> part of me wants to not watch it
[03:10] <hamitron> and sleepy and in bed would decide on it
[04:34] <shauno> why does telly have to be so pants at 4am
[05:30] <HazRPG> shauno: cos it just is :P
[05:30] <HazRPG> shauno: iplayer ;)
[05:30] <HazRPG> etc
[05:30] <HazRPG> also, hi :)
[05:32] <shauno> iplayer doesn't work here :(
[05:32] <shauno> 4od does, but bleh
[05:38] <shauno> aww, calibre's content server doesn't work on ipv6.
[05:45] <HazRPG> ?
[05:45] <HazRPG> for the install terminal command?
[05:47] <shauno> it has a content server that works with the ebook reader on my phone
[05:48] <shauno> (connect/share in the toolbar, start/stop content server).  servers up http on 8080, but with a shedload of metadata in the html, so my phone can parse it as a content source
[05:48] <shauno> erm, *serves up
[05:50] <shauno> it works on http://127.0.0.1:8080/ but not http://[::1]:8080/, so I can't reach it without port forwarding  (I can reach my laptop via v6, but v4 has to go thru NAT)
[05:57] <shauno> (not sure how much sense I'm making)
[06:39] <shauno> HazRPG: Don't tell me you fell asleep already
[06:39] <HazRPG> oh heh sorry, mates round... we're eating pizza :)
[06:39] <shauno> Ah
[06:40] <HazRPG> oh, that's random...
[06:40] <HazRPG> think that's really calibre's fault? Or a different bug?
[06:41] <HazRPG> surely it would be using (java?) libraries to create that web-server thing
[06:41] <shauno> I'm not quite sure.  all the python's compiled so it's difficult to peek at
[06:42] <HazRPG> oh heh, course its python not java
[06:42] <shauno> $ find /Applications/calibre.app/ -name *py | wc -l
[06:42] <shauno>        5
[06:42] <shauno> $ find /Applications/calibre.app/ -name *pyo | wc -l
[06:42] <shauno>     2198
[06:42] <shauno> :(
[06:42] <HazRPG> src is found on the site if ya really want to peak into it
[06:42] <MartijnVdS> \o/ F1
[06:47] <shauno> it just tries to listen on 0.0.0.0 .. I'm not sure why that'd stop it answering ::1 :/
[06:47] <shauno> will see if I can break it when this movie's finished :)
[06:51] <HazRPG> \o/
[06:52] <HazRPG> guessing your running off downstairs to watch something?
[06:52] <shauno> Sorta
[06:58] <MartijnVdS> shauno: IPv4 vs IPv6. Try listening on ::
[06:59] <MartijnVdS> (if you listen on v6, v4 should work, other way around not so much)
[07:00] <MartijnVdS> (because ipv4 addresses fit in the struct sockaddr for v6, but not the other way around)
[07:03] <MartijnVdS> shauno: see man 7 ipv6 and man 7 ip
[07:03] <shauno> good lord, it is that easy
[07:03] <shauno> had to remove the .pyo to get it to use the .py instead, but it's answering now
[07:04]  * MartijnVdS feels like factbot ;)
[07:04] <shauno> :D
[07:05]  * shauno pet pet factbot
[07:05] <shauno> that's fantastic.  now my phone treats the contents of calibre as if they're already on the phone
[07:05] <MartijnVdS> heh, RTL (Dutch F1 broadcaster) have an HD channel with the SD feed
[07:06] <MartijnVdS> *switch to BBC HD*
[07:09] <HazRPG> nice
[07:11] <HazRPG> I'd recommend telling the calibre people about this, so that they can fix it :)
[07:11] <HazRPG> even though it is just one line :P
[07:11] <MartijnVdS> The calibre people are very good at bugfixy things
[07:12] <shauno> I'm not sure it would be one line to fix properly
[07:12] <MartijnVdS> listening on :: might not work if your OS doesn't support ipv6
[07:12] <shauno> I don't think listening on :: would work if they didn't have v6 loaded?  so you'd need to catch & fallback
[07:12] <MartijnVdS> exactly
[07:13] <MartijnVdS> though people should really start enabling v6 now v4 is running out
[07:13] <HazRPG> oh, well yeah... but I mean it would be nice if it was added - plus I doubt the catch for figuring out if they have ipv6 loaded won't be that hard
[07:13] <shauno> it shouldn't be, I just need to find it
[07:14] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: it ran out ages ago :P they're currently just retracting extra unused IP's from uni's etc
[07:14] <MartijnVdS> Least you could do is suggest it as a fix, then have them really fix it :)
[07:14] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: No, even that ran out now :)
[07:14] <shauno> there's likely already a catch in case something else is already listening on that port.  just need one more condition there
[07:14] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: RIPE, etc have a few addresses left.. but that's it.
[07:15] <shauno> msft just bought a block off nortel
[07:15] <MartijnVdS> but they still have to prove they're going to use them all within a few years
[07:16] <MartijnVdS> or they'll have to give them back to ARIN
[07:16] <shauno> 666,624 addresses for $7.5 USD.  over $10 per address.
[07:16] <MartijnVdS> rules are stricter now
[07:16] <shauno> er, $7.5M
[07:18] <shauno> that's a clear indication that the writing is on the wall.  that's not a stupid amount of addresses for say, an isp.  it is a stupid amount of money
[07:18] <MartijnVdS> I'm dual-stack atm
[07:18] <MartijnVdS> I could disable IPv4 and still do most things (vps, facebook, google/gmail/youtube/etc., most Dutch news sites, Dutch govt, all have v6)
[07:19] <shauno> I'm using he.net at home, but since I get v6 on work's wifi, I'm trying to use it as much as possible for phone<>home  (And vps, which has 6 native)
[07:19] <neuro> morning all
[07:19] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:20] <neuro> i take it somone's noticed *.ubuntu-uk.org is fecked?
[07:21] <shauno> I hadn't, but it does indeed seem to be unreachable here
[07:21] <shauno> oh, there it goes
[07:21] <shauno> iiinteresting
[07:22] <HazRPG> morning
[07:22] <HazRPG> plant.ubuntu-uk.org works fine here
[07:23] <neuro> [07:14]  <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: RIPE, etc have a few addresses left.. but that's it.
[07:23] <neuro> MartijnVdS: you know that RIPE got allocated a /8 along with the other four RIRs on 3rd feb?
[07:23] <MartijnVdS> neuro: yes, but they aren't getting any more
[07:23] <MartijnVdS> because there aren't any more
[07:23] <neuro> i know that
[07:23] <shauno> there aren't anymore to get.  that's why the last ones were handed out like that
[07:24] <neuro> but that's 16.7m addresses
[07:24] <neuro> plus however many they still have to allocate within their pre-existing blocks
[07:24] <MartijnVdS> neuro: That's one for everyone in the Netherlands :)
[07:24] <neuro> it's not "there's no addresses left", it's "there's no spare addresses to be granted to RIRs to then be allocated to LIRs to then be allocated to end users"
[07:25] <MartijnVdS> neuro: it's "Stage 1 is burned out, we're now burning stage 2"
[07:25] <MartijnVdS> anyway, enabling ipv6 is becoming a smarter move every day :)
[07:26] <shauno> I just see it as common sense to be on the ball while there's still time to play with it
[07:26] <shauno> rather than reacting once things start getting tight(er)
[07:27] <MartijnVdS> I wonder how much will break on "IPv6 day" (June 8th)
[07:27] <neuro> probably only poorly configured clients
[07:27] <neuro> "and nothing of value was lost"
[07:27] <MartijnVdS> neuro: broken/old DSL routers might not help
[07:28] <HazRPG> wow, ipv6 day is june 8th?
[07:28] <HazRPG> as in when they flip the switch?
[07:28] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://isoc.org/wp/worldipv6day/
[07:28] <neuro> i doubt routers will be much of a problem, clients handling AAAA answers for name resolution may be more of an issue
[07:28] <neuro> HazRPG: it's just a one-day test
[07:28] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://test-ipv6.com/
[07:28] <shauno> there's no switch to be flipped.  ipv6 day is a bunch of big sites throwing it open to see how much it hurts
[07:29] <shauno> 6 is designed for a gradual transition.  it's not like going from ncp to ip overnight :)
[07:29] <neuro> ncp->tcp was a gradual transition too tho iirc
[07:30] <neuro> we just remember it as a cut off because there was an actual cut off date and event
[07:30] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I get 10/10 on both ipv4 and ipv6 on that page :)
[07:30] <neuro> ipv4 will be around for decades yet
[07:30] <HazRPG> I get 10/10 v4, and 0/10 v6 xD
[07:30] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: time to get your v6 on ;)
[07:31] <HazRPG> I'm pretty sure my ISP is switching straight to ipv6 soon though
[07:32]  * neuro gets 10/10 + 9/10
[07:32] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, they'll go dual-stack
[07:32] <MartijnVdS> neuro: 9? why 9?
[07:32] <neuro> v6ns bad apparently
[07:32] <neuro> hornet:~ neuro$ host -t any aaaa.v6ns.test-ipv6.com
[07:32] <neuro> Host aaaa.v6ns.test-ipv6.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
[07:33] <neuro> which is odd because my local resolvers do v6 no problem
[07:33] <neuro> hornet:~ neuro$ host -t any ipv6.google.com
[07:33] <neuro> ipv6.google.com is an alias for ipv6.l.google.com.
[07:33] <neuro> hornet:~ neuro$ host -t any ipv6.l.google.com
[07:33] <neuro> ipv6.l.google.com has IPv6 address 2001:4860:8003::63
[07:33] <MartijnVdS> neuro: dig +trace ?
[07:34] <neuro> interesting, that worked
[07:34] <neuro> broken tool, i claim the moral victory :)
[07:35] <shauno> odd.  works here
[07:38] <neuro> MartijnVdS: just found a stat on http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/ipv4-exhaustion/faq ... RIPE have the equivalent of 4 /8's left, ~ 75m addresses
[07:39] <MartijnVdS> Based on current calculations, we can predict that the RIPE NCC's current reserves should last until the end of 2011.
[07:40] <MartijnVdS> (according to that page)
[07:40] <neuro> depends on the behaviour of LIRs
[07:41] <neuro> and of ISPs
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> neuro: the rate of assignment was increasing last I know
[07:43] <HazRPG> gotta remember, mobile phones use ipv4 too ;)
[07:43] <neuro> usually behind NAT tho
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Mine is dual-stack on wifi :)
[07:44] <neuro> my voda 3g gets a 10/8 address
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> UMTS (3G) is v4-only OR v6-only (you can choose at connection time), so that's useless :)
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> afaik LTE is going to be dual-stack
[07:44] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I doubt your EDGE/3g/3.5g/4g/GSM/Whatever... uses ipv6 thought
[07:45] <HazRPG> though*
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it can.. but then you can't use v4 at the same time
[07:45] <HazRPG> ouch
[07:45] <shauno> you'd think mobiles would be at the front of v6
[07:45] <HazRPG> lucky you, we don't get the choice :(
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> shauno: they've supported v6 for ages, carriers just suck :)
[07:46] <HazRPG> shauno: you'd think, with mobile phones being the one wasting a majority of IP's
[07:46] <shauno> I know, mine does v6 on wifi :)
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> http://www.linkedin.com/answers/technology/wireless/TCH_WIR/684164-17668223
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> shauno: so does mine
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> android \o/
[07:46] <HazRPG> I'm on android... so I would /assume/ mine does
[07:46] <shauno> that's why I wanted calibre to answer v6, so I can reach it from outside my home
[07:47] <neuro> HazRPG: what carriers do you know of who are deploying non-RFC1918 IPs to handsets?
[07:47] <HazRPG> I don't even know what that means xD :D
[07:47] <neuro> well like i said
[07:47] <shauno> I believe mine gets a 'real ip'
[07:47] <neuro> on voda, i get a 10/8 IP
[07:47] <neuro> 10.x.x.x
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> neuro: Vodafone Business in the Netherlands ("laptop 3G sticks")
[07:48] <neuro> i'm behind NAT, so i'm not using a "real IP"
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> neuro: that gives me a real IP
[07:48] <HazRPG> I get a real IP on mine too
[07:48] <HazRPG> 74.x.x.x
[07:48] <neuro> MartijnVdS: so that's probably only a small subset compared to consumer use
[07:48] <shauno> I get a 'real ip' on both my phone, & my 3g dongle
[07:49] <neuro> which carriers?
[07:49] <HazRPG> giffgaff
[07:49] <HazRPG> (sort of o2?)
[07:49] <shauno> o2.ie
[07:50] <HazRPG> shauno: do you get text-receipts? (i.e. when someone gets a text you've sent, you get told if its actually been sent)
[07:50] <shauno> never tried
[07:51] <HazRPG> because I have to type in a code at the start of my text to be able to get them (instead of the standard method used by phones in the options), and it sends you a text saying it was sent... instead of notifying the phone to update the text to say (sent successfully @ <time>)
[07:52] <HazRPG> which I think sucks
[07:52] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ouch
[07:52] <MartijnVdS> that's how it used to work in the netherlands
[07:52] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o2 do it via a hack... its retarded :/
[07:52] <MartijnVdS> Now everyone uses the flag in the phone settings
[07:52] <HazRPG> o2 are tight barstools
[07:53] <HazRPG> sadly giffgaff uses their network :/ (sort of like a reseller)
[07:54] <HazRPG> annoyed me for a few days when my phone stopped showing the blue mail icon :(
[07:54] <HazRPG> because I thought no one was getting my texts!
[07:54] <HazRPG> shauno: how you getting your ipv6?
[07:54] <shauno> at home, he.net
[07:55] <neuro> shauno: from what i can tell, o2.ie NAT, how are you determining you get a real IP?
[07:56] <neuro> because an external test like whatsmyip.org will just show the address of the gateway you're NATting through :)
[07:56] <shauno> neuro: just trying to figure that out now :)
[07:56] <neuro> hehe
[07:56] <shauno> I've a feeling you may be right, as the IP I see connecting to my vps isn't the same as the one I see doing whatismyip.org
[07:57] <shauno> but I had ssh inbound working when I used to have it jailbroken, which doesn't make sense
[08:01] <neuro> odd
[08:01] <shauno> yeah, I'm getting 10.53. on my phone, but 62.40. on my dongle
[08:03] <shauno> funky.  I'm positive I used to be reachable on my phone
[08:04] <neuro> :)
[08:06] <shauno> also, bug 743486  :)  fun way to spend 7am on a sunday
[08:07] <shauno> (calibre's website points you to lp, so that is upstream, not the ubuntu maintainer)
[08:08] <shauno> I'd try to offer a patch, but difficult to test .. I can't turn v6 off in osx
[08:13] <HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4oB28ksiIo
[08:13] <HazRPG> xD dead funny!
[08:13] <HazRPG> (defcon 18 related)
[08:19] <shauno> Doesn't look like my laptop will be here until the 5th :(
[08:19] <HazRPG> :(
[08:23] <HazRPG> omg! lmao! you should really check that video out! xD XD
[08:51] <shauno> man I hate that.  get sidetracked by irc, go back to movie, don't want to rewind because I'll find out who kills who :(
[08:57] <HazRPG> ??
[08:57] <HazRPG> oh, guessing you watched that vid I sent?
[08:57] <HazRPG> funny though, right :D?
[08:57] <HazRPG> never steal a hackers computer :D
[08:57]  * HazRPG pokes MartijnVdS to watch the video above
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> I've seen it a while back
[08:58] <HazRPG> ah
[08:58] <HazRPG> lol
[09:04] <shauno> Feeling I've seen it too. Got sidetracked trying to help someone figure out how to turn bsd device names into osx networkservices :/
[09:07] <kvarley> Which video editor will allow me to take a video and add an image border to it in order to replace the black bars which appear on youtube?
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> uhrm
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> if you output proper 16:9 video, youtube won't add black bars :)
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> If your video is 4:3 (for example), you'd have to decode, add a background, then re-encode
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> that's going to be very lossy (potentially)
[09:09] <kvarley>  MartijnVdS: I know, my monitor is 16:10 and I captured a video which is 16:10 but can't re-record the video so I want to add an image border to fill the black bars and make the resolution 16:9
[09:10] <kvarley>  MartijnVdS: Hhhmmmm ok, I may have to settle for black bars then :/
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> can't pitivi do it?
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> with a transparent png/image (leave the 16:10 bit transparent, draw in the rest)
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> then render?
[09:15] <kvarley>  MartijnVdS: Not sure I'll try it now, thank you
[09:16] <HazRPG> I knew there was a reason I did/didn't like watching defcon videos xD
[09:16] <HazRPG> scary seeing some of the hacks they get up to ...
[09:16] <HazRPG> yet still awesome at the same time
[09:16] <HazRPG> awesome -> wow I didn't know you could do that, I want to try! Or at least learn the process
[09:17] <HazRPG> scary -> this could happen to me one day!
[09:18] <shauno> Proving it can happen us the first step in making sure it doesnt :)
[09:18] <HazRPG> true...
[09:22] <kvarley>  MartijnVdS: Doesn't work because it stretches the video from its original dimensions to fill the space
[09:22] <HazRPG> I think watching some of these videos has inspired me to make sure my devices have a way of telling me where they are
[09:24] <shauno> I did the same; setup prey (preyproject.org) but using my own webserver instead of theirs so I can log everything
[09:24] <shauno> err, .com rather
[09:27] <ali1234> you should crop rather than add your own border
[09:28] <ali1234> kdenlive is supposed to be the best video editor
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> too bad it's got a k in the name
[09:30] <ali1234> yeah it's kde
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> kde would be so much better if they didn't start EVERY program name with a k
[09:30] <HazRPG> as a thing, I mainly dislike kde
[09:30] <ali1234> the gnome design ethos doesn't really work when it comes to productivity software
[09:30] <ali1234> eg pitivi
[09:30] <HazRPG> ali1234: how so?
[09:31] <ali1234> imagine if the gnome design methodology was applied to photoshop or premier or after effects
[09:32] <ali1234> the first thing they would do is remove the 90% of the features that "most" people don't use
[09:32] <ali1234> but the problem is that these programs are not designed for "most" people
[09:33] <ali1234> so the result would be that people who actually know what they are doing can no longer use photoshop
[09:33] <ali1234> now, instead of having a solid base of professional users, photoshop would be competing with the likes of paint shop pro, and ms paint
[09:34] <ali1234> since it's not designed for this market place, it would slowly die
[09:36] <HazRPG> ... hmm really?
[09:37] <ali1234> yes really
[09:37] <HazRPG> GIMP I'm pretty sure follows gnomes design... yet still has a lot of functionally that *most* people wouldn't use
[09:37] <ali1234> gimp doesn't follow gnome design at all
[09:37] <ali1234> gimp does whatever it wants
[09:40] <ali1234> to make a car analogy it would be like porche saying "from now on we only make family cars and SUVs"
[09:42] <HazRPG> oh
[09:43] <shauno>  gimp doesn't really follow anyone's design.  last time I used it, it couldn't even spell HIG.
[09:43] <ali1234> well i installed kdenlive, turns out it sucks
[09:44] <ali1234> now it's got completely confused, forgotten all clips, and won't let me do anything
[09:51] <ali1234> looks like cinelerra is still the best editor and blender is still the best compositor
[09:51] <MartijnVdS> I just let other people make videos
[09:51] <ali1234> unfortunately they are both close to impossible to use
[09:56] <HazRPG> blender isn't that bad
[09:57] <HazRPG> for 3D at least
[09:57] <HazRPG> (didn't know you could use blender as a compositor for videos
[09:57] <HazRPG> )
[09:58] <ali1234> most people don't
[09:58] <ali1234> the Ui for it is buried so deep
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> also, it's not really advertised
[09:58] <ali1234> you are unlikely to ever find it without a tutorial
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> When I hear "blender" I think "3d"
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> not "video"
[09:59] <HazRPG> agreed
[09:59] <ali1234> even though the name "blender" is a specific reference to it's ability as a compositor
[09:59] <HazRPG> yeah, but you still think of it for animation of 3D objects - not for a stream of videos
[10:00] <ali1234> it's because that's what it looks like it is when you load it up
[10:00] <ali1234> when you use it as a compositor you essentially animate movie clips in the same 3d space
[10:00] <ali1234> ie mapped on a plane
[10:01] <ali1234> so "what would it looks like if it looked like a compositor?"
[10:01] <ali1234> (it would look the same)
[10:03] <ali1234> pitivi doesn't seem to understand alpha channels at all
[10:03] <AlanBell> http://votegeek.org.uk/ how does that look for people?
[10:03] <ali1234> still crashes firefox
[10:03] <AlanBell> no, it doesnt
[10:04] <AlanBell> it takes a *long* time in firefox
[10:04] <ali1234> and it goes grey and stops responding to user input
[10:04] <AlanBell> yup
[10:04] <ali1234> and then after about 20 seconds i have to click "continue"
[10:04] <AlanBell> sit cross legged, shut your eyes and hum
[10:04] <AlanBell> and then press continue
[10:04] <ali1234> yeah that doesn't work
[10:05] <ali1234> pressed continue 5 times now
[10:05] <HazRPG> works here
[10:05] <HazRPG> chrome
[10:05] <ali1234> why is it so slow?
[10:05] <AlanBell> ali1234: let it rock on
[10:05] <AlanBell> it is doing a *lot* of calculations
[10:06] <AlanBell> doesn't take very long on Google Chrome on a core i7 Macbook Pro
[10:06] <ali1234> sure, as long as it runs fast on your computer, that makes it ok...
[10:06] <HazRPG> Google Chrome + i7-930 + 6GB RAM ;) (custom build)
[10:07] <HazRPG> although, I'm currently processing a dump of wiki in the background too - so it crunched those numbers pretty well/fast :P!
[10:07] <AlanBell> but on my little i3 Ubuntu laptop it takes about a minute in firefox
[10:07] <HazRPG> considering*
[10:07] <ali1234> takes about 15 seconds in chromium here
[10:08] <ali1234> or about a minute in firefox
[10:08] <ali1234> hard to tell when firefox is spamming me with "this script is running slooooow" warnings
[10:08] <ali1234> have you considered putting a timer in it so it doesn't lock up the browser?
[10:08] <AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, I would like to do that
[10:09] <ali1234> which is the slow function?
[10:09] <ali1234> swingometer()?
[10:09] <AlanBell> I have been reading about web worker things, but just a yield or something would be good
[10:09] <ali1234> javascript doesn't have yield as such
[10:09] <AlanBell> well the outer loop goes round 3916 times
[10:09] <ali1234> what you do is make a function that does a "bit" of the work and then run it repeatedly from a timer
[10:09] <ali1234> ok, perfect
[10:09] <AlanBell> and for each one of those it does 531 calculations
[10:09] <ali1234> instead of a for() look, you use a timer() that gets rerun until all work is done
[10:09] <AlanBell> and each one of them is done three times
[10:10] <ali1234> that way it does some work, then services some browser stuff, and it doesn't lock up
[10:10] <AlanBell> how do I know how long the timer should run?
[10:10] <ali1234> that's the best part
[10:10] <ali1234> you don't
[10:11] <ali1234> you restart the timer when the function finishes
[10:11] <ali1234> with time = 0.0001 seconds or whatever
[10:11] <ali1234> that makes it effectively identical to a yield
[10:11] <AlanBell> oh ok, so it will still run as fast
[10:11] <AlanBell> got an example of that?
[10:11] <ali1234> pretty much yes
[10:11] <AlanBell> and it should draw the dots one at a time so you see it doing stuff
[10:12] <ali1234> yes it should do
[10:12] <ali1234> it will probably be a bit slower, but it won't "crash"
[10:13] <ali1234> you may need to use a closure to construct the parameter
[10:13] <ali1234> or perhaps tail recursion
[10:14] <shauno> "If you don't have a shiny new computer".... should I not be trying this on my phone?
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> shauno: is it shiny and new?
[10:15] <shauno> oh, it doesn't work on the phone :(
[10:15] <shauno> the 'mobile theme' turns off resizing, so the content is outside the viewable area; and the link to turn the mobile theme off, doesn't :)
[10:15] <shauno> oh well.  I was looking forward to blowing my phone up :D
[10:15] <AlanBell> shauno: sorry, no phone explosions today
[10:17] <shauno> does it give any indication that it's done?
[10:18]  * AlanBell reads http://answers.oreilly.com/topic/1506-yielding-with-javascript-timers/
[10:18] <ali1234> this script confuses me
[10:18] <AlanBell> shauno: big triangle with colours in it
[10:18] <shauno> ah, ok
[10:19] <AlanBell> ali1234: the functions are not in a logical order and there are unused functions still there
[10:19] <shauno> wasn't sure what I was expecting on the first run
[10:19] <BigRedS> hardware is so much more expensive than softwarei
[10:19] <BigRedS> oops
[10:19] <ali1234> AlanBell: specifically the swingometer() function
[10:19] <BigRedS> wrong window
[10:19] <AlanBell> shauno: expect something like this http://votegeek.org.uk/the-shape-of-our-democracy/
[10:20] <shauno> seems to work fine here, but that'd be my only suggestion.  the only way I can tell it's done what it's meant to, is the "Safari is no longer responding because of a script on the webpage “Vote Geek”" dialogs stop popping up
[10:21] <AlanBell> ali1234: some of that came from here http://refusingthedefault.blogspot.com/p/alternative-vote-swingometer.html
[10:21] <willy_1977> goo morning...
[10:21] <shauno> some kinda green light to say no, it didn't break, it's all finished  would be welcome on something that stressy
[10:21] <willy_1977> good*
[10:21] <AlanBell> which does a few more calculations than I wanted to do, and I didn't get round to fully stripping out the ones I don't want
[10:21] <ali1234> why does it go through every possible share of votes?
[10:22] <ali1234> surely the point is you enter the vote share you want
[10:22] <AlanBell> no
[10:22] <AlanBell> you enter the transfer rules you want
[10:22] <AlanBell> the grid represents every possible vote share
[10:23] <AlanBell> and the shape of it changes based on what people do with their second choice
[10:23] <ali1234> oh i get it
[10:24] <ali1234> that's why the old chart is so much faster right?
[10:24] <AlanBell> the old chart was pre-calculated
[10:24] <AlanBell> it just loads the svg
[10:24] <ali1234> really?
[10:24] <HazRPG> AlanBell: just a design issue... but might be worth making the dash ( - ) in the centre... I originally looked at it and though "why isn't there a box for conservative?" and why is there a dash after conservative... later realised after analysing it a bit that there was dashes on the others too
[10:25] <ali1234> i thought i remembered entering different numbers on it
[10:25] <AlanBell> HazRPG: yeah, will do
[10:25] <daubers> Morning
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> daubster
[10:26] <ali1234> hmm are you assuming that 100% of people actually use the second choice?
[10:26] <HazRPG> AlanBell: having it all centred would look nicer, but not fully necessary... the dashes though are just confusing if they're not centred
[10:26] <ali1234> cos i would expect it to be closer to about 20%...
[10:27] <ali1234> ah, the "nowhere colun"
[10:27] <ali1234> *column
[10:29] <AlanBell> yeah, the nowhere column is the remainder
[10:29] <AlanBell> most people doing a minor party vote will use the second choice
[10:29] <daubers> Hooray \o/ czajkowski fixed my formatting issues. Thank you :)
[10:29] <AlanBell> they will vote 1)Green 2)libDem etc
[10:29] <AlanBell> or 1)ukip 2)con
[10:29] <ali1234> but that's only about 10% of people
[10:29] <AlanBell> sure
[10:30] <AlanBell> I would expect the "nowhere" value to be lower for "other" than for the major parties
[10:31] <ali1234> nah
[10:31] <ali1234> conservative voters won't vote for anyone else
[10:31] <shauno> I tried to boot linux on my palm tungsten, and I do believe I've killed it :)
[10:31] <ali1234> labour might though
[10:32] <HazRPG> AlanBell: ah, the N/A is a better choice :)
[10:33] <ali1234> how do i interpret these results anyway?
[10:37] <HazRPG> AlanBell: www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/votegeek.png <== I think that would look better, but just my thoughts :) (you'll notice my chrome-fu is also in there at the bottom right)
[10:38] <HazRPG> AlanBell: the bit I added is highlighted
[10:39] <HazRPG> however, not sure if that would mess up other things
[10:39] <HazRPG> you'll know your code better than me :)
[10:39] <popey> you dont have enough tabs open HazRPG
[10:40] <HazRPG> popey: don't I?
[10:40] <ali1234> why is it green?
[10:40] <HazRPG> ali1234: it is?
[10:40] <ali1234> yeah
[10:40] <HazRPG> oh you mean the theme?
[10:40] <HazRPG> its an android based theme
[10:41] <ali1234> doesn't it clash with all the rest of your OS?
[10:41] <HazRPG> the rest of my o/s is grey
[10:44] <HazRPG> popey: I'm usually worse than this for tabs
[10:44] <HazRPG> but hey, that's why we have tab-scroll in ubuntu :)
[10:45] <HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.redmondpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/GoogleChromeAndroidTheme.jpg
[10:48] <HazRPG> ooo winner, finally uploaded all my pictures to picasa web
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> Speaking of pictures
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> Might go out with the ol'50D later
[10:49] <HazRPG> think there's like 500 pictures in this one album alone >_<
[10:49] <HazRPG> 50D?
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_50D
[10:49] <HazRPG> nice :)
[10:50] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ooo, you like photos too! Check out my few attempts at panoramic views! https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qTJqW8B4beWcOMr2_J0_D0Sln1IbCow2Lz_7Dmnl72k?feat=directlink
[10:50] <HazRPG> that's just using a built in function inside the camera!
[10:50] <daubers> Ooooh, speaking of photo's I need to sort the ones I took yesterday
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: cool
[10:51] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that was the view outside my hotel window in the philippines :P
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157613473805120/
[10:51] <HazRPG> not sure if it shows the meta data publicly, but it'll show ya the camera & settings I used
[10:51]  * willy_1977 is trying to get used to unity...
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: made those with autopano/hugin
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> a Fuji Finepix
[10:52] <daubers> hugin \o/
[10:52] <HazRPG> yeah
[10:53] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nice!
[10:53] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: although, what's with the black squares?
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: That's when you don't have pictures to cover that area of the panorama
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> most people cut them off, but I liked this one :)
[10:55] <HazRPG> heh I had to google hugin and autopano to figure what you meant
[10:55] <HazRPG> but yeah, that's pretty awesome :P
[10:56] <HazRPG> I had to use a mix of a steady hand and a tripod to do some of my attempts
[10:56] <MartijnVdS> I did those by hand
[10:56] <MartijnVdS> hugin auto-rotates pictures that are "off"
[10:56] <daubers> hugin is magic and witchcraft combined
[10:57] <MartijnVdS> and mono
[10:59] <HazRPG> I was so impressed with my panorama skills, I ended up taking my portable tripod I bought while I was over there all the time and tried to take as many as I could possibly do without getting bored :P
[11:00]  * daubers sets hugin to start stitching
[11:01] <AlanBell> HazRPG: thanks, I will put that in
[11:02] <AlanBell> ali1234: that is kind of my point, the people voting for the minor parties in the "other" space are the ones most likely to use their alternative voting options
[11:02] <AlanBell> the major party voters will be more likely to vote 1)con 2)nothing
[11:03] <ali1234> ok, i've timerized this
[11:04] <ali1234> it's messed up though
[11:04] <ali1234> in a rather amusing way
[11:04] <ali1234> the dots go outside the triangle now
[11:04] <ali1234> ah i forgot to set the inner loop counter back to zero
[11:05] <AlanBell> cool
[11:05] <AlanBell> I have to go to a kiddie birthday party now, will hack it this evening
[11:05] <popey> cake
[11:06] <daubers> where?
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> daubers: AlanBell's place ;)
[11:06] <willy_1977> someone mention cake?
[11:06]  * daubers goes to get the car keys
[11:08] <ali1234> ah it's supposed to start at 1% not 0 % too
[11:11] <AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, for historic reasons
[11:12] <ali1234> ok i think it's working properly now
[11:13] <HazRPG> I see cake!?
[11:13] <AlanBell> the old swingometer didn't work with values of 0, this one could do it
[11:13]  * AlanBell heads out
[11:13] <HazRPG> AlanBell: oh, you mean the centre code?
[11:13] <HazRPG> AlanBell: winner :D
[11:14] <ali1234> i hope you realise i'm going to have to indent all this code properly too
[11:15] <ali1234> trailing whitespace everywhere
[11:15] <willy_1977> ali1234: good on you, nothing wrong with a good code indentation...
[11:15] <willy_1977> :)
[11:16] <daubers> HazRPG: Yesterdays panorama :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattdaubney/5563914962/
[11:17] <willy_1977> daubers: that's a nice shot
[11:17] <HazRPG> willy_1977, ali1234: Agreed... was half-tempted myself!
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> daubers: bit grey -- blame the weather?
[11:18] <daubers> MartijnVdS: More to do with my eyes these days :(
[11:18] <willy_1977> MartijnVdS: be fair man, the caption said "sunny day in reading" ... still grey hues :p
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> daubers: you have grey eyes?
[11:19] <daubers> MartijnVdS: No, just struggle to focus properly through glasses then through camera
[11:19] <daubers> Makes getting light levels correct a bit ... dodgy
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> ah, I know the feeling
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> glasses--
[11:20] <willy_1977> should be for drinking out of...
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> I use Live View a lot now.. if it's sharp at the "Live View" 10x zoom level, it's sharp :)
[11:20] <daubers> yesterday was the first time I went out with recent eye changes
[11:21] <daubers> went out to take photos after prescription changes
[11:21] <daubers> that sounds better
[11:21] <daubers> MartijnVdS: The 1000D live view thing is a bit pants
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> daubers: you had new eyeballs screwed in? :P
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> On the 50d it's acceptable
[11:21] <daubers> MartijnVdS: No, they've just gone more rugby ball shaped in the past 12 months
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> ah, annoying
[11:23] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[11:25] <brobostigon> good morning MartijnVdS :)
[11:35] <HazRPG> brobostigon: morning \o/
[11:35] <HazRPG> daubers: delayed response... but... yeah that is mega awesome dude :D
[11:35] <HazRPG> daubers: (picture you linked)
[11:36] <brobostigon> HazRPG: good morning, :)
[11:38] <HazRPG> daubers: heh, I almost thought you had new eyeballs fitted in too with the way you were saying stuff :P
[11:38] <HazRPG> daubers, MartijnVdS: also, if glasses are annoying while taking snaps - try contacts for when taking photos or something
[11:38] <HazRPG> I know they're a pain to put in though at first...
[11:39] <daubers> HazRPG: Can't stand contacts because of my astigmatisn
[11:39] <daubers> astigmatism even
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> I tried contacts for when I'm running
[11:39] <daubers> they make me want to scratch my eyeballs out with the nearest scrapy impliment :)
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> but even after a month it took half an hour to get them in
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> so I gave up
[11:40] <HazRPG> I've seen people get to the point where they can just like go *plonk* and they're in
[11:40] <HazRPG> daubers: ah that makes sense I guess
[11:41] <MartijnVdS> I'd get them in wrongly (not "centered"), or folded
[11:42] <OmNomDeBonBon> VdS = Van der Sar?
[11:42] <MartijnVdS> no
[11:42] <MartijnVdS> not all Dutch people have the same last name you know :P
[11:42] <HazRPG> hmm, ever get the impression that the brain is technically dual-core :P
[11:43] <OmNomDeBonBon> But you know Edwin van der Sar right?
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: Everyone in the Netherlands knows him.
[11:43] <OmNomDeBonBon> I mean personally.
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: Just like everyone in the UK knows the queen ;)
[11:43] <ali1234> according to the bbc the census has "no questions on income, sexual orientation or the nature of any disability"
[11:43] <OmNomDeBonBon> I don't know the Queen.
[11:43] <brobostigon> HazRPG: or just simple SMP.
[11:43] <ali1234> this is false, there is a question about income and a question about long term disability
[11:43] <OmNomDeBonBon> The brain is more like two sockets linked by QPI/HT.
[11:44] <OmNomDeBonBon> But they aren't symmetrical sockets.
[11:44] <OmNomDeBonBon> You can actually cut the connections between the left and right brain.
[11:44] <OmNomDeBonBon> You end up with one half of your body defying your will.
[11:44] <OmNomDeBonBon> They used to do that as a treatment for epilepsy.
[11:44] <HazRPG> yeah, but if you cut them... your vision for a start would be a bit... erm... odd
[11:45] <HazRPG> considering each side of the brain processes each eye individually and then connects them up together via the brains join
[11:46] <shauno> I have to share this for the Android fans; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTUwqxHpXMY  (since we're already OT, I don't feel too bad :)
[11:46] <HazRPG> actually that would be pretty cool (and weird) if you cut the join, and suddenly you could see two images!
[11:47] <HazRPG> shauno: .... is that actually a robot inside!
[11:47] <ali1234> oh actually, my bad, it asks you for number of hours worked, not income
[11:47] <ali1234> and the question about disability is a yes/no
[11:48] <HazRPG> shauno: I don't know whether that is cool... or weird xD!
[11:48] <shauno> neither do I : )
[11:48] <OmNomDeBonBon> Haha that vid's awesome.
[11:49] <HazRPG> guess that's one way to grab attention
[11:50] <brobostigon> suggestions of something useful to do this afternoon.?
[11:51] <HazRPG> 1) loud music, android dancing, hot chick in the booth (check); 2) .....*shrug*....; 3) PROFIT!
[11:51] <HazRPG> brobostigon: depends on the whether I guess?
[11:51] <ali1234> it's sort of like a cross between mr blobby and dusty bin
[11:52] <shauno> aye.  but it can move
[11:52] <brobostigon> HazRPG: kinda sunny.but cool.
[11:52] <shauno> Mr blobby danced about as gracefully as .. I do.
[11:52] <HazRPG> erm... picnic \o/
[11:53] <daubers> BBQ \o/
[11:53] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i had no initial plan to leave home really.
[11:53] <HazRPG> did mr blobby dance? I thought he just jerked around like it had been electrocuted
[11:54] <HazRPG> brobostigon: what daubers said then :D
[11:54] <brobostigon> HazRPG: bbq, hmm.
[12:06] <daubers> bah, why does video playback cause really weird things to happen with inotify
[12:07] <HazRPG> why do most videos on youtube show "related: Rebecca Black - Friday" ......... >_<
[12:07] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: 4chan?
[12:07] <HazRPG> its almost as bad as having the radio on just seeing that link
[12:08] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: You mean they keep watching this video?
[12:08] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, and then another so it "links"
[12:09] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Also... wow 55.6M views of this video :/ with like 936K dislikes xD
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Apparently, people don't like Fridays
[12:09] <popey> http://www.neatorama.com/2011/03/25/robotic-bird-flies-like-a-bird-does/
[12:09] <popey> wow
[12:09]  * brobostigon shakes fist at Xorg for gpu hang, :(
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: shake at intel, not xorg
[12:10]  * brobostigon shakes fist at intel (xorg-xserver-video-intel) for gpu hang, :(
[12:10] <HazRPG> popey: win
[12:11] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: apparently not... I have a feeling that its 55M views because of 4chan + rick-roll type effect
[12:11] <HazRPG> I have a feeling it'll be called "becca-roll"
[12:11] <shauno> oh sweet.  we will one day have ornithopters :)
[12:12] <popey> the army might :)
[12:13] <HazRPG> indeed
[12:13] <HazRPG> bird-like planes for commercial use ftw! (hopefully)
[12:13] <HazRPG> they could call it concord 2.0!
[12:14]  * HazRPG misses concord :(
[12:14] <shauno> for some reason the first time I read that, I read "big-bird-like".  I've no idea where my head was going with that one
[12:14] <HazRPG> I stopped collecting plane-related stuff after concord was taken off the air (sorta speak)
[12:15] <HazRPG> shauno: heh :P
[12:15] <HazRPG> apparently you have kids-shows on the brain :P
[12:16] <HazRPG> think it would be hard for me to create my own repo?
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: using a ppa, or yourself?
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there are several tools to make that easy
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: mini-dinstall - daemon for updating Debian packages in a repository
[12:17] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: reprepro - Debian package repository producer
[12:18] <HazRPG> just thinking of hosting my own repo up of commonly installed software I normally do, so each upgrade I do (usually through alt disc via fresh install)... I can just add my repo in, and select all the software off it
[12:18] <HazRPG> have it like grab all the latest software from common ppa's that I use or something along those lines
[12:18] <popey> you dont need a repo for that
[12:18] <popey> just a single deb
[12:18] <popey> or even a script
[12:19] <shauno> hazomatix <3
[12:19] <HazRPG> loool
[12:20] <HazRPG> popey: see I tried doing that with synaptic's auto create script thing... but failed miserably each time
[12:21] <HazRPG> the idea is... I can have it downloading all the ppa's/debs/etc from my server and then have all my machines just pull it from there instead of having to download it like 5 times (laptop, netbook, my tower, my sister's pc, my mess around pc)
[12:22] <HazRPG> shauno: kinda... expect, not as bad as automatix
[12:23] <shauno> I think they're 3 separate problems.  you want something to throw in /etc/apt/sources.lists.d/, maybe a metapackage to automate the list of packages you want, and an apt-cache so you don't have to pull them 5 times over
[12:24] <HazRPG> sounds about right
[12:24] <popey> i use squid-deb-proxy to cache my downloads on my server, works well
[12:24] <shauno> a local repo would work too, but you're likely to spend more bw keeping that up-to-date, than downloading a package 5 times each time you upgrade
[12:25] <shauno> (and wouldn't solve sources.list or a package list, really)
[12:25] <HazRPG> popey: but that's just assuming you have a debian-based server though
[12:26] <shauno> there's your first task then :D
[12:26] <HazRPG> its on my to-do list :P
[12:28] <HazRPG> I have two hard drives on my server that's full... and would take me a day (at the very least) to move those files around, configure the software I want it to run... copy them back over and get things running again
[12:28] <HazRPG> well I say full, ones got about 30GB free
[12:29] <popey> HazRPG: whats assuming?
[12:29] <HazRPG> popey: well squid-deb-proxy is a debian based package isn't it?
[12:30]  * brobostigon returns with goats cheese and ham toasties, yummy, :)
[12:30] <popey> yes
[12:31] <HazRPG> my server currently runs windows lol
[12:31] <popey> well thats silly :)
[12:33] <HazRPG> its from my HND days
[12:33] <HazRPG> when we were messing around with windows server
[12:33] <HazRPG> started out as just a test dummy, that ended up being my home server
[12:42] <czajkowski> aloha
[12:43] <brobostigon> afternoonings czajkowski
[12:46] <HazRPG> hmm, I guess I could use my VPS as a place to store my apps though...
[13:06] <Myrtti> oh good.
[13:23] <daubers> czajkowski: Thanks for sorting my wiki syntax :)
[13:24] <czajkowski> np
[13:25] <czajkowski> not sure what I did..
[13:25] <czajkowski> but :)
[13:32] <daubers> heh
[13:35] <hamitron> my eyes :/ no sleep yet
[13:37] <HazRPG> hamitron: really, you've been up this whole time too?
[13:40] <shauno> time change + F1 = poor hamitron :(
[13:40] <hamitron> F1 was boring as usual too
[13:41] <hamitron> stay up every year, hoping it will be different
[13:42] <hamitron> I think I feel it more now I am older
[13:42] <hamitron> few years ago I'd still feel alive till 7pm
[13:43] <hamitron> now all I am good for is drinking tea and coffee
[13:43] <hamitron> ;)
[13:44] <hamitron> shauno: you think I can get away without declaring I've bought another comp?
[13:44] <HazRPG> brb, drink run... plus my mate that passed out earlier today needs to go home now ^^
[13:44] <HazRPG> he waves
[13:44] <HazRPG> ... at a monitor...
[13:44] <hamitron> parents will wanna kill me
[13:44] <HazRPG> so I assume he means you guys :P
[13:44] <hamitron> haha haz
[13:44] <hamitron> o/
[13:44] <shauno> hamitron: £8 .. and a tiny box .. you might be able to hide it :o)
[13:45] <hamitron> shauno: I am wondering if I should claim it is a router
[13:45] <HazRPG> brb \o
[13:45] <shauno> ooh, that'd work
[13:45] <shauno> shame it doesn't have two nics, else it /could/ be a router
[13:45] <hamitron> it has usb
[13:45] <hamitron> ;/
[13:45] <hamitron> and a printer port
[13:45] <HazRPG> also, hamitron was my mate waving not me :P
[13:46] <hamitron> I was waving at yourr m8
[13:46] <hamitron> :)
[13:46] <shauno> I have a "mysterious closet of internet", where the router & associated gubbings live.  I swear I could hide half an elephant in there and she wouldn't notice
[13:46] <hamitron> haha shauno
[13:46] <HazRPG> hamitron: ah :P, he seems amused :P
[13:46] <hamitron> I have 3 routers \o/
[13:47] <hamitron> but they are just "the network"
[13:47] <HazRPG> ow!
[13:47] <HazRPG> big ball of fire hates me!
[13:47] <shauno> modem, router, ups, a usb hub that looks remarkably similar to the router, an old tower PC, and ... I've lost count how many external drives.
[13:47] <shauno> as far as she's concerned, it's just a huge ball of wires
[13:47] <HazRPG> sunnies... and round two of the leaving the house scenario part 2!
[13:47] <hamitron> similar :)
[13:47] <shauno> heck, she ain't far off
[13:48] <hamitron> I do admit, I have too much though
[13:48] <hamitron> could half the number of computers here, and still have too many
[13:49] <hamitron> 17 setup, with 6 as spares ;)
[13:49] <shauno> I gotta say I love apple's little wall-wart routers.  very easy to hide around the house.  maybe you need to start looking at plug-pcs :)
[13:50] <hamitron> now I have 2 laptops, I could use one for "rough" work
[13:50] <daubers> If only the apple rouers did EoP as well :(
[13:50] <hamitron> and move it around, not worry about getting oil on it
[13:50] <hamitron> and other mess
[13:50] <hamitron> :)
[13:51] <hamitron> I need gbit switches
[13:51] <shauno> EoP?
[13:51] <hamitron> all I really want now
[13:51] <hamitron> Ethernet over Power?
[13:51]  * hamitron is guessing
[13:53] <hamitron> daubers: all built in you mean?
[13:53] <shauno> more wired networking wouldn't get me far .. all the wired clients are in the same closet as the modem
[13:54] <hamitron> you can live with wireless?
[13:54] <hamitron> :/
[13:54] <brobostigon> three men and a baby, film4, leonard nimoy directing, good film.
[13:54] <shauno> hamitron, easily
[13:55] <hamitron> I found brick walls stop the signal
[13:55] <shauno> I've not had a problem with wifi ever since I discovered no-one else was using 5GHz locally :)
[13:56] <shauno> 2.4 was a constant fight for clear channels, but I appear to have this band to myself
[13:56] <hamitron> ah, built up area?
[13:57] <shauno> that was in an apartment complex, so worse than built-up.  neighbours in all directions, including up & down
[13:57] <hamitron> :/
[13:57] <hamitron> I have 2 wireless neighbours in range, if I go outside
[13:58] <hamitron> nothing shows inside
[13:58] <hamitron> but there again, I struggle to find my own in 3/4 of the house
[13:58] <hamitron> so just turned it off
[13:59] <shauno> our laptops seem to struggle, but the routers don't.  so I put one router on each floor; problem solved
[13:59] <hamitron> this house is 3 knocked into 1, plus an extension
[13:59] <shauno> hence why I like the dinky ones :)
[13:59] <hamitron> then i also have ethernet to the garage
[13:59] <hamitron> :)
[14:00] <shauno> they're handy when we go on holiday too.  tidy enough to throw in the bag & convert stupid hotels who think having an ethernet cable hanging beside the telly is sufficient
[14:00] <hamitron> don't they offer an extension?
[14:01]  * hamitron never been into a hotel
[14:01] <shauno> it's not the length.  it's just inconvenient.  especially if I'm abroad, I want somewhere I can use my phone without o2 bleeding me dry for data
[14:01] <shauno> I end up taking a router with me even if I'm not taking the laptop
[14:02] <hamitron> :)
[14:02] <hamitron> guess you are never cut off from the world...
[14:02] <shauno> not voluntarily, no :)
[14:03] <hamitron> I personally choose to leave my mobile at home
[14:03] <hamitron> :)
[14:03] <hamitron> it is like the feeling of been free I really enjoy
[14:03] <hamitron> didn't realise how different it felt until I tried
[14:04] <hamitron> had always been encouraged to take a phone
[14:04] <shauno> I don't feel less free for having a gadget
[14:04] <hamitron> people never bug you?
[14:05] <shauno> very rarely.  now that I've convinced NTL to quit phoning me trying to sell me a phoneline (go figure), I only get work calls if I'm on-call (or late), and if I'm on holiday, my wife isn't going to be phoning me
[14:05] <shauno> it's just a little internets in my pocket
[14:06] <hamitron> that sounds ok then
[14:06] <hamitron> :)
[14:06] <shauno> even if it's just subway maps & any notes I've taken, I wouldn't leave it behind
[14:06] <hamitron> I seem to have a tallent for choosing high maintanance gf
[14:06] <hamitron> that bug me too often
[14:07] <shauno> no technology can solve that :)
[14:07] <hamitron> technology adds to it ;)
[14:07] <hamitron> gives them a method of contact
[14:07] <hamitron> \o/
[14:08] <hamitron> these days I just use the excuse my ngage doesn't fit in a pocket
[14:09] <shauno> okay; why do lipo batteries all have 3 pins, and how do I figure out which is which
[14:09] <hamitron> multimeter?
[14:10] <shauno> hm
[14:10] <shauno> (don't have one; trying to jump pins with an led to see if I can get any signs of life)
[14:11] <hamitron> won't you want a resistor in there? :|
[14:11] <shauno> it's 3.7v & dead.  an led will survive a short trip
[14:11] <batte> #javascript
[14:11] <hamitron> ah, k
[14:12] <shauno> does appear to be dead-dead :/
[14:12] <hamitron> all mine have + and - marked
[14:13] <shauno> I have a battery with almost no markings at all
[14:13] <shauno> it says "standard lithium-ion polymer battery 3.7v", and a bunch of warnings about eating it, or using it after it's been eaten; or burning it
[14:14] <shauno> I have a lipo charger (max1555 ic), but it only has 2 pins for battery, so I'm trying to figure out if the third pin is important; and which is which
[14:15] <hamitron> it is normally for temp or data communications I think
[14:22] <shauno> going inside the handheld itself didn't render many clues :(
[14:23] <hamitron> oh ffs
[14:23] <hamitron> I cut and pasted a file from a network share
[14:23] <hamitron> to somewhere I didn't have permission
[14:23] <hamitron> where does it go?
[14:23] <hamitron> :/
[14:24] <Myrtti> *cough* language *cough*
[14:24] <hamitron> hmmm?
[14:25] <hamitron> sorry Myrtti
[14:25] <hamitron> ;/
[14:27] <penguin42> Myrtti: I'm sure he was just referring to the C library function - see ffs(3)
[14:27] <Myrtti> penguin42: I'm sure he wasn't
[14:28] <Myrtti> since he actually apologized and everything - anyway
[14:28] <penguin42> :-)
[14:28] <Myrtti> making macaroni mince casserole nomnomnom
[14:29] <Myrtti> or bake, or whatever
[14:29] <Myrtti> with a bit of parmesan and bluecheese on top...
[14:31] <shauno> I do miss the days they made gadgets that you didn't have to abstain from drinking coffee for 3 hours before re-assembling :(
[14:32] <penguin42> that's miniturisation for you
[14:39] <hamitron> grrrr
[14:39] <hamitron> can't find the ISO file
[14:39] <hamitron> :/
[14:39] <hamitron> new download just gone \o/
[14:41] <shauno> good sign that it's naptime.  two buttons labelled L and R and I got them the wrong way around.  twice.
[14:48] <ging> if i want to run some vms from my ubuntu desktop locally whats the best program to use?
[14:48] <penguin42> ging: I use kvm+virtmanager - works fine for me; the video isn't that fast though; others swear by virtualbox
[14:49] <popey> i use vbox
[14:49] <ging> yeah i've used virtual box and quite liked it just wondered if there is any alternatives
[14:50] <ging> vbox == virtual box ?
[14:50] <popey> yes
[14:50] <Myrtti> vmware was nice when I tried it but kvm is certainly handy to have around
[14:51] <penguin42> popey: That sloppy mouse/menu bar thing is a bit of a pain - I'm almost tempted to try and do the patch as per the blueprint idea of not switching when something gains focus by mouse over
[14:59] <ging> how come the latest vbox releases are never in the repositories?
[14:59] <gord> penguin42, if we're talking about unity, already passed ui freeze
[15:00] <penguin42> gord: Yeh I guessed, I'd just ppa it anyway - if I do it; or I might just dump unity
[15:00] <popey> ging: there is a virtual box repo of their own
[15:07] <smittix> Reet all
[15:07] <smittix> Anyone any good with images?
[15:07] <smittix> Was messing with my Fuji S1800 yesterday and caught something weird.
[15:08] <smittix> http://aptgetmoo.co.uk/?p=31
[15:08] <ging> i aint falling for that one again
[15:08] <ging> someone else look for me
[15:09] <smittix> It's not a rick roll or anything
[15:09] <ging> something far far worse?
[15:09] <mgdm> it'll be one of those ones that swaps it out for something 'scary' after a few seconds?
[15:09] <mgdm> or something similarly tedious?
[15:09] <smittix> Nope, Just a Jpeg
[15:11] <popey> where in that picture is the 'ghost'?
[15:11] <smittix> above the TV
[15:11] <ging> i dont really get it, unless it's the smudge on the wall, which without ever being in your house i've no idea if it is normally there or not
[15:11] <smittix> if you zoom into it
[15:11] <smittix> Nothing there on the wall
[15:12] <mgdm> looks like a reflection off one of the pictures on the mantlepiece, or sometihng
[15:13] <popey> well, given ghosts don't exist, I'd imagine a compression artifact, something on the lens, the ccd or as mgdm says, reflection
[15:14] <ging> popey: you complain when i troll then you go a quite litterally leave the door open like that
[15:14] <popey> uh
[15:15] <popey> saying ghosts don't exist is trolling?
[15:15] <popey> seriously?
[15:15] <tugrik> any suggestions on how to start an xserver on a remote host, that I can remotely access using x11vnc, but that isn't viewable from the host itself?
[15:15] <ging> no but me arguing that they do would have been
[15:15] <brobostigon> i agree with popey, he is right, in stating fact.
[15:16] <mgdm> You should learn to contain yourself
[15:16] <popey> tugrik: vncserver
[15:16] <Myrtti> I vote for reflection
[15:16] <ging> mgdm: well i did it was hard but it did
[15:16] <shauno> I vote swamp gas / weather balloon combo
[15:17] <brobostigon> shauno: that reminds me of MIB.
[15:17] <tugrik> aaahhhhh, cheers popey, didn't realise that was essentially a separate display
[15:17] <tugrik> and meanwhile I vote for a balloon full of swamp gas too
[15:17] <mgdm> tugrik: refracting the light from Venus?
[15:18] <brobostigon> lol
[15:18] <tugrik> surely "uranus" mgdm ?
[15:18] <popey> *honk* *honk*
[15:18] <mgdm> Caution: comedy genius at work
[15:18] <tugrik> gah
[15:18] <ging> i clearly watch too much rolling news, i feel compelled to offer an oposing view point even when it is clearly pointless
[15:19] <tugrik> anyway to get vncserver to listen on localhost only?
[15:19] <smittix> heh
[15:19] <smittix> weird anyways
[15:19] <ging> tugrik: could do it with iptables rules
[15:19] <Myrtti> x11vnc -listen localhost
[15:19] <phil> Hi all.
[15:20] <popey> hello phil
[15:20] <tugrik> want to avoid iptables ging
[15:20] <popey> ooo handy Myrtti
[15:20] <tugrik> and Myrtti  - that connects to an existing X display doesn't it?
[15:20] <phil> Am on Ubuntu 10.04.  I used Firefox 3.6 up until now.
[15:20] <Myrtti> tugrik: by default, if not configured otherwise
[15:20] <ging> yeah you could do it the easy
[15:20] <phil> Have just tried FF4.0, but I'm having font rendering problems.
[15:21] <Myrtti> I run mine x11vnc -scale 2/3 -listen localhost -display :0
[15:21] <phil> Have there been reports of other people having font rendering problems with FF4/Ubuntu/Linux?
[15:21] <popey> dunno phil
[15:21] <popey> phil: how did you install ff4?
[15:21] <phil> popey: Are you using FF4.0?
[15:21] <popey> yes phil
[15:21] <ging> is FF4 still beta?
[15:21] <phil> popey: downloaded the binary and ran from the command line.
[15:21] <popey> !ff4
[15:22] <phil> ging: No, no longer in Beta.
[15:22] <popey> phil: better off using the ppa
[15:22] <popey> ^^^
[15:22] <phil> Ok, will try that
[15:22] <phil> now...
[15:22] <ging> well how come i dont have it?
[15:22] <popey> ging: read what lubotu3 just said
[15:22] <mgdm> I'm awfully tempted to get a Kinect despite not having an XBox
[15:24] <ging> is it not considered stable enough on ubuntu to be rolled out? or did they just leave it because 11.04 is due out soon anyway?
[15:24] <phil> Woooo!
[15:24] <phil> That worked!  Must be the firefox-gnome support or something
[15:24] <popey> no ging
[15:24] <phil> Brillian!  Thanks guys!
[15:24] <phil> +t
[15:24] <popey> ging: re-read what it says
[15:24] <popey> !latest
[15:25] <phil> Thanks lubotu3
[15:25] <tugrik> gah, "Xvnc -localhost" still opens up something on port 6000
[15:25] <popey> great phil
[15:25] <mgdm> popey: ta for that PPA link, I'd used the tarball which is less than ideal
[15:25] <popey> np
[15:25] <phil> Yeah... should always remember to use the repositories...
[15:25] <phil> Thanks again!  I'm off....
[15:30] <tugrik> aaaaahhhhh
[15:31] <tugrik> Xvnc -nevershared -localhost -nolisten tcp
[15:31] <tugrik> cheers for the first step on that popey
[15:34] <smittix> Looks weird when ran through a filter though
[15:35] <smittix> http://aptgetmoo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/edit.png
[15:35] <smittix> looks like a nun
[15:35] <smittix> heh
[15:36] <shauno> If you're up for editing it, it can look like whatever you want :)
[15:36] <ging> a square nun
[15:37] <shauno> Heck, give me a smudge tool and I'll make it look like ... a wall!
[15:37] <smittix> I just ran it through a colour filter in gimp
[15:37] <smittix> eh well
[15:38] <ging> shauno: yeah but then conspiraciest would want to know what was hidden by the smudge tool, they wouldnt conclude that it was just a reflection of the ceiling reflected by a picture fram
[15:47] <brobostigon> has someone got the google repo string for me please.
[15:53] <Myrtti> *burp* the best mince and macaroni bake EVAH
[15:54] <mfraz74> Considering putting the OEM version of Ubuntu 11.04 on a netbook. How do I access the menu to change to OEM install?
[15:55] <hamitron> you using the alt cd?
[15:55] <mfraz74> no, a normal CD image on a USB stick
[15:56] <hamitron> not 100% sure if it can be done with normal livecd
[15:56] <mfraz74> Did a OEM install of Kubuntu last month and that allowed me to do it by pressing F4 after setting the language, but I couldn't see that
[15:57] <hamitron> ah, maybe can now
[15:57] <hamitron> :)
[15:57] <mfraz74> just saw 2 icons at the bottom of the screen
[15:57] <hamitron> !oem
[16:01] <matti> TheOpenSourcerer: ;]
[16:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> hey matti :-)
[16:05] <popey> mfraz74: press space when you see the 'man equals keyboard' thing on the screen
[16:06] <mfraz74> popey: thanks for that, it isn't very clear
[16:06] <popey> np
[16:06] <mfraz74> probably best to wait until the final version is out anyway
[16:08] <shauno> daubers: epic email.  I needed that.  ty.
[16:09] <mfraz74> For some reason it kept saying that I couldn't find the sound system even though Banshee could play music
[16:16] <daubers> shauno: yw :)
[16:18] <mfraz74> Was very shocked to hear that my team won 5 - 1 yesterday
[16:20] <kaushal> Hi
[16:20] <kaushal> is there a channel for getting to know about Ubuntu Professional Certification ?
[16:20] <kaushal> or Mailing List ?
[16:31] <popey> kaushal: thats a canonical thing, so you're better off contacting them directly
[16:31] <popey> i.e. it's not a community thing
[16:34] <kaushal> popey: ok
[16:34] <kaushal> popey: can i pvt message you ?
[16:34] <popey> sure
[16:34] <popey> any time
[16:43] <Seeker`> bah, so annoying when devs say "we know there is a problem ,we won't fix it"
[16:45] <bigcalm> That's when you get so fed up you a) fix it and submit a patch b) find an alternative application
[16:48] <popey> i found an unfixed bug, friend said he'd fix it for _me_ but refused to contribute back
[16:49] <ali1234> but hang on
[16:49] <shauno> Copyright assignment will do that :/
[16:49] <ali1234> wouldn't he have to give you the source
[16:50] <popey> he has
[16:50] <ali1234> well there you go then, what's the problem?
[16:50] <popey> fixes it for me, nobody else
[16:51] <popey> and I have to keep putting that patch in my system and rebuilding
[16:51] <ali1234> well you could always... send the patch to upstream
[16:51] <popey> i could
[16:51] <popey> but its his code
[16:51] <ali1234> so?
[16:51] <popey> (c) him
[16:51] <ali1234> and why is this a problem?
[16:51] <popey> he doesnt want to sign over his copyright to canonical
[16:51] <ali1234> oh, so in other words, canonical rfuses to accept his contribution?
[16:52] <ali1234> once again, why is this a problem?
[16:52] <popey> well, i guess you could look at it like that
[16:52] <penguin42> copyright assignments vary depending on project
[16:52] <ali1234> yes, i am aware of that
[16:52] <popey> it's a patch for ubuntu software centre, which is a canonical thing
[16:52] <popey> so he would have to sign over his copyright to them
[16:52] <penguin42> some projects require copyright assignments, some don't
[16:52] <popey> which he doesnt want to do
[16:52] <ali1234> perfectly reasonable
[16:53] <popey> yup
[16:54] <shauno> It's pretty normal for copyright to _not_ change hands without employment or payment.
[16:55] <penguin42> shauno: Most of the GNU projects require assignment
[16:56] <shauno> I'd still call that abnormal, in the grand scale of things. Although I do trust that the worst GNU will do is go v3
[16:56] <hamitron> if you sign copyright over they could release a closed source project with the code
[16:57] <ali1234> hamitron: that's exactly what oracle have done with "open" office
[16:57] <hamitron> I didn't know that, but I don't trust any of them
[16:57] <hamitron> ;)
[16:57] <ali1234> sun collected all the copyright assignments, everything was fine, then oracle bought the lot and relicenced it
[16:58] <ali1234> it's why there is now a libreoffice
[16:58] <hamitron> everyone is out to get me....
[16:58] <hamitron> 1 problem is libreoffice
[16:58] <hamitron> if the project leaders ever wanted to change license, the code they branched is locked to the license
[16:59] <ali1234> what do you mean?
[16:59] <hamitron> and oracle still control it ultimately
[16:59] <Laney> no
[17:00] <hamitron> branching an open source project lets you keep that license only, not change it later
[17:00] <hamitron> to re-license you need copyrights
[17:00] <ali1234> they do in fact control it ultimately, since they have all the copyright assignments (sun were very dilligent in collecting them)
[17:00] <shauno> oracle control anything post-takeover
[17:01] <penguin42> some of the assignment processes actually make sure that you have the right to contribute the code; e.g. does your empolyer (however unreasonably) claim any code you right in your own time?
[17:01] <penguin42> write
[17:01] <shauno> anything that was licensed openly, can be continued under that license
[17:01] <shauno> penguin42: I believe your employer can claim anything that was written on their time/dime.  anything outside of that is up to your contract
[17:02] <hamitron> libreoffice is GPLv2 "and later"?
[17:02] <penguin42> shauno: Depends on country; I was told they can claim everything that's even vaguely related whenever you did it
[17:02] <ali1234> hamitron: no, it's LGPL 3
[17:02] <penguin42> shauno: So if you're a computer programmer for a company chances are they might be technically able to claim copyright
[17:03] <shauno> I believe here (not UK) that's only the case if it relies on anything that I wouldn't know without that employment
[17:03] <hamitron> ali1234: but it has the text that allows it to move to newer revisions?
[17:03] <ali1234> you'd have to look on the source code
[17:03] <ali1234> there is no newer version than version 3
[17:03] <penguin42> shauno: I'm in the UK and was told it's basically anything vaguely related
[17:04] <hamitron> yeh, just if there was a need for version 4, due to some legal reason
[17:04] <hamitron> I remember reading about the linux kernel and it been restricted to GPLv2
[17:04]  * jacobw is back from howduino
[17:05] <shauno> I think writing anything vaguely related to your day job without something in writing is just pretty much sketchy
[17:05] <shauno> the kernel is 'stuck' with v2 because they'd have a hellish time, if even possible, of tracking down every contributor
[17:06] <hamitron> yes
[17:06] <shauno> that's the 'pro' of copyright assignment.  you avoid that issue.  the con, is whether you trust the next choice in license.
[17:06] <ali1234> it's version 3 only
[17:06] <penguin42> shauno: And because some people would object to it being v3 - v3 is spooking a lot of companies
[17:06] <hamitron> exactly shauno
[17:06] <ali1234> shauno: no, the kernel is stuck with version 2 only because linus hates freedom :)
[17:06] <shauno> ali1234: I do believe he'd have to drop a lot of existing contributions to move to 3
[17:07] <Myrtti> Linus ♥
[17:07] <shauno> that'd be a helluva audit
[17:07] <ali1234> he is against it idealogically and has said so many times :)
[17:07] <hamitron> if Linus had made everyone sign copyrights over, wouldn't be a problem.... unless he is some evil dude wanting to wreck all our lives ;)
[17:07] <shauno> hamitron: exactly.  with companies, you add more vectors.  what's up for sale if they have to declare bankruptcy, etc
[17:09] <hamitron> shauno: I suppose if he had personally owned it, someone like Apple would of been able to take it
[17:09] <shauno> I think popey's friend is making a perfectly sane choice.  They know what their contribution is, who owns it, and what it's worth - _if_ they retain it.
[17:09] <hamitron> perhaps OS X would be based on linux
[17:09] <hamitron> ;)
[17:09] <shauno> heh.  fat chance :)
[17:10] <hamitron> I mean, they could of got the copyrights
[17:10] <hamitron> or anyone with patents I suppose
[17:10] <penguin42> shauno: He should have known the copyright and assignment for contribution before fixing it
[17:11] <ali1234> um why?
[17:11] <ali1234> you're saying he shouldn't fix it for himself and anyone else who *is* willing to accept his contribution?
[17:11] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm not saying shouldn't, I'm saying it would be worth looking first
[17:11] <shauno> penguin42: it sounds like he did.  it sounds like he's not against sharing his fix.  It sounds like canonical would be free to accept it if their terms didn't get in the way
[17:12] <penguin42> shauno: Those terms are well known, it's not their problem at that point
[17:12] <ali1234> seems like it's not anyone problem
[17:12] <shauno> he's still free to fix it, and share that fix, under the license he received the code under.  it's not a problem for him
[17:13] <penguin42> ali1234: It puts popey in an odd position; he's now seen the source code to a fix; if he decided to fix it himself and contribute it back it would be arguable that it was based on some code that wasn't assigned
[17:13] <shauno> that canonical won't accept the fix for wider distribution is their business
[17:13] <ali1234> penguin42: yeah, sad, ain't it?
[17:13] <ali1234> the question is, who is being hurt by this?
[17:14] <ali1234> the answer: canonical and their customers, and nobody else
[17:14] <penguin42> ali1234: popey
[17:14] <shauno> on one side, no-one.  on the other side, everyone who doesn't receive the fix because canonical won't / can't accept it
[17:14] <gord> i wasn't that fussed about ubuntu not being accepted for google summer of code, but i just learnt that reactos has been... geez
[17:14] <hamitron> has reactos moved on much?
[17:15] <jacobw> not much
[17:15] <hamitron> last I heard, they were reviewing all code
[17:15] <jacobw> yeah..
[17:15] <jacobw> in my opinion reactos is the most pointless thing since gentoo :p
[17:15] <shauno> reactos is still stuck where aros is.  "pointless"
[17:15] <gord> last i heard it was using mostly wine code anyway
[17:15] <hamitron> if reactos worked, it could be cool
[17:16] <shauno> it's wine with a kernel & a shell
[17:16] <shauno> they'd have made a bigger impact if they're wrote a kernel for emacs, tbh
[17:16] <hamitron> yeh, but the idea of running a huge collection of existing software is good
[17:16] <jacobw> sort of defeats the aim of free software though..
[17:16] <shauno> ideas rock.  reality sucks.
[17:17] <hamitron> imo, linux for gamers either needs to: 1) perfect wine OR 2) get native games provided
[17:18] <hamitron> same for a few other bits of software too
[17:18] <hamitron> to be a complete replacement, it must do everything as well
[17:19] <shauno> that's been done, done, and done
[17:19] <shauno> the real problem is; everyone who whines about no games on linux needs to buy the ones that appear
[17:19] <shauno> darwinia rocks.  buy it.  uplink sucks.  buy it anyway.
[17:20] <hamitron> I always give priority to games and apps that don't need to be bought twice for multiple platforms
[17:20] <shauno> steam is rocking for that on the mac.  I hope they show up natively on linux one day
[17:20] <hamitron> yes
[17:21] <shauno> but that company .. Loki I think?
[17:21] <hamitron> these linux game publishers never attracted me, because I refuse to pay twice
[17:21] <shauno> no-one actually bought anything
[17:21] <hamitron> loki is one
[17:22] <hamitron> UT3 upset me
[17:22] <shauno> don't pay twice.  pirate the windows knowing you're in the moral right for all I care.
[17:22] <shauno> (*windows version)
[17:22] <hamitron> hehe
[17:22] <gord> shauno, eh i love uplink
[17:22] <hamitron> I don't agree with pirating ;/
[17:22] <shauno> but if you refuse to pay twice, and only buy the windows version; you're defeating yourself
[17:22] <shauno> hamitron: I think if you've bought it on one platform, paying for another isn't pirating.  this may not be legal, but I believe it's moral
[17:23] <hamitron> it is breaking the license the publisher has given
[17:23] <hamitron> I personally don't buy either
[17:23] <jacobw> how can you not believe in pirating :|
[17:23] <shauno> gord: I didn't like it at all.  I bought it because I was amazed I found a box in HMV with a penguin on it.  but it wasn't my cup of tea
[17:23] <hamitron> UT2k4 is the best imo
[17:24] <hamitron> script on the disk, worked out of the box
[17:24] <shauno> UT:GOTY here
[17:24]  * jacobw does agree the sensible thing is not to buy in the first place
[17:24] <gord> did epic ever get around to releasing that version of unreal 3 that worked on linux, they were promicing that for years...
[17:24] <hamitron> shauno: does it have the scriupt on disk?
[17:24] <hamitron> gord: I am still waiting
[17:24] <hamitron> and not buying till they do
[17:24] <shauno> hamitron: I believe the GOTY disc did, the original disk didn't
[17:25] <hamitron> I have the GOTY version
[17:25] <hamitron> :)
[17:25] <shauno> and I believe the right thing is to buy the linux version.  beg/borrow/steal whatever platforms you need, but put your money where you want it.
[17:25] <hamitron> 2 disks, it has the high quality texture pack
[17:25] <hamitron> I think WoW missed a trick
[17:26] <shauno> buy it on the platform you want it on, acquire it on platforms you require it on
[17:26] <hamitron> VMware Workstation license isn't restricted to 1 host OS either
[17:26] <shauno> if you're gonna buy it either way, make your buck a vote.
[17:26] <hamitron> I was glad to see
[17:27] <hamitron> yeh
[17:27] <Myrtti> oh lordy http://twitter.com/#!/mikkohypponen/status/52043393404116992
[17:27] <Myrtti> *facepalm*
[17:27] <hamitron> I have bought a lot of windows games and a copy of windows though :/
[17:28] <jacobw> Myrtti: lol
[17:30] <shauno> I think it's a shame blizzard (WoW et al) don't support linux.  because their mac support is first-tier
[17:30] <hamitron> I'd better take a break before I waste money on more of them thin clients
[17:30] <hamitron> yeh :/
[17:30] <shauno> I still from the same retail box the windows users do.  I get everything at the same time windows users do
[17:30] <shauno> still?  *install
[17:31] <shauno> I don't get patches so much as 5 minutes later than windows users do.  it's fantastic
[17:31] <hamitron> suppose linux has too many configs to support
[17:31] <hamitron> be a nightmare
[17:32] <shauno> in theory, it's not that bad
[17:32] <shauno> the less platform you depend on (libc & opengl), the better.  it does work.
[17:33] <hamitron> yeh
[17:34] <hamitron> 1 reason I like statically compiled stuff ;)
[17:35] <hamitron> but then you have licensing issues
[17:36] <hamitron> anyways
[17:36] <hamitron> gone ;)
[17:36] <hamitron> o/
[17:37] <dutchie> dark blue forever :D
[17:40] <directhex> every day in every way, mono packaging impresses me
[17:40] <mgdm> how now?
[17:42] <bigcalm> mgdm: what's your IDE of choice?
[17:42] <mgdm> bigcalm: Vim
[17:43] <mgdm> or Netbeans if I must have an actual IDE
[17:43] <bigcalm> Really?
[17:43] <bigcalm> Humms
[17:43] <mgdm> It's what I use 90% of the time, unless I'm in Eclipse doing Android
[17:43] <bigcalm> I do like function navigation
[17:43] <mgdm> but Eclipse makes me want to lob it into the Clyde
[17:44] <bigcalm> I'm surprised the Eclipse is still the 'best' thing out there
[17:44] <directhex> mgdm, we're down to 11.2 meg for a minimal install
[17:44] <directhex> mgdm, compare to a minimal jre
[17:44] <mgdm> directhex: nice
[17:44] <mgdm> bigcalm: Nah, IMO Netbeans > Eclipse
[17:44] <bigcalm> directhex: monodev - only useful for mono or will it cater for other syntaxes as well?
[17:44] <directhex> mgdm, it's 16.3 on current packages
[17:45] <mgdm> Eclipse is big, bloated, slow, confusing, crashy, slow, confusing, slow, bloated, crashy, and slow
[17:45] <directhex> bigcalm, monodevelop? the only first-class citizen is c#. but there is support for about 8 other languages, including C, C++, Java, Python, Vala
[17:45] <directhex> mgdm++
[17:45] <bigcalm> PHP JS XHTML?
[17:45] <directhex> ... not those. patches welcome!
[17:45] <bigcalm> Heh
[17:46] <bigcalm> I might give it a go, just for something different
[17:46] <bigcalm> I asume that monodevelop was written in mono? ;)
[17:46] <directhex> basically, the gui designer only works for c#. and i'm not sure which languages have intellisense
[17:46] <mgdm> bigcalm: Nah, Java. :P
[17:46] <directhex> bigcalm, monodevelop is written in c#
[17:46] <bigcalm> Oh ffs
[17:46] <bigcalm> Heh
[17:46] <directhex> mgdm, not so mad - microsoft#s c# compiler is written in c, not c#
[17:46] <mgdm> Oh, didn't know that
[17:47] <mgdm> I'd've assumed they'd have had a self-hosting one by now
[17:47] <directhex> mgdm, planned for .net 5
[17:47] <mgdm> ah
[17:47] <mgdm> Mono's compiler is self-hosting, though?
[17:48] <daubers> popey: Seen the cartoons in the latest LXF?
[17:49] <directhex> mgdm, first thing that ever existed in mono was the compiler, self-hosting on ms.net before the mono classlib began
[17:50] <mgdm> I remembered correctly, then \o/
[17:50] <directhex> i'm gonna go hack on XSP whilst lying on the bed, pretending i have a garden to enjoy
[17:51] <ging> is there a way i can make gnome terminal on ubuntu cache my ssh key passphrase?
[17:51] <ging> it seems to do it on my laptop but nothing else and i dont know how i set it up
[17:51]  * mgdm is reading up on structure from motion and other exciting computer vision stuff
[17:53] <penguin42> mgdm: Cool - I don't know if it's any good, but have you looked at opencv (open computer vision)
[17:53] <mgdm> penguin42: yup - I'm currently working on https://github.com/mgdm/OpenCV-for-PHP
[17:54] <penguin42> mgdm: Cool
[17:58] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[17:59] <pr0ph3t> is there a way to redirect stdout to a custom log file at boot?
[17:59] <penguin42> stdout from what?
[18:03] <popey> daubers: no?
[18:04] <pr0ph3t> penguin42, all the boot process basically
[18:06] <ali1234> pr0ph3t: dmesg
[18:07] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, it looks like it's skipping some steps
[18:07] <ali1234> probably, it's only for kernel messages
[18:07] <pr0ph3t> from 3 seconds it jumps to 16 seconds
[18:08] <ali1234> if you want to know why your boot freezes for 13 seconds you should use bootchart
[18:08] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, that's what I just installed
[18:09] <pr0ph3t> but it's not really straight forward is it
[18:09] <ali1234> um. yes?
[18:09] <ali1234> just look at the image it generates?
[18:11] <pr0ph3t> it doesn't :S
[18:11] <ali1234> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting
[18:14] <pr0ph3t> thanks
[18:18]  * AlanBell hugs ali1234 http://votegeek.org.uk/
[18:19] <ali1234> AlanBell: i just found another bug: it never clears the old circles when it draws new ones
[18:19] <ali1234> need to empty all the children from the triangle before starting to draw
[18:19] <AlanBell> yeah, I know about that one
[18:20] <AlanBell> kind of nice the way you see it overwriting them line by line though
[18:20] <AlanBell> but a bit of a memory hog
[18:20] <pr0ph3t> 1.26 seconds to boot :S
[18:20] <ali1234> looks like chromium is about 3x faster (couldn't test before due to xss errors)
[18:21] <AlanBell> could give them all an id and delete the old ones as it writes the new ones
[18:21] <ali1234> just empty the children
[18:21] <ali1234> what is 1.26 seconds?
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> the empty child? Are you my mummy?
[18:22]  * bigcalm shudders
[18:23] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, boot time according to bootchart
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: have you seen the new prequel?
[18:23] <ali1234> pr0ph3t: oh sorry, you're the same colour as AlanBell on my irc :)
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is it Easter yet? :)
[18:23] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: no, but I heard somebody mutter about it.
[18:23] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: thing is, he's a time lord, how do you have a prequel?
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's real Moffat scary again
[18:23] <pr0ph3t> what an honour
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's "getting the audience ready for the new series"
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: with a few 1.5-minute shorts
[18:24] <bigcalm> Moving it away from a children's tv prog?
[18:24] <pr0ph3t> you're all green to me
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no it's still a children's prog, they're just building up tension :)
[18:25] <bigcalm> Goodo
[18:32] <s_h> hi. does anybody else have problems with firestarter-1.0.3-7ubuntu5 ?
[18:32] <s_h> it seems to be broken
[18:32] <s_h> after system update
[18:40] <daubers> popey: They reference mumbuntu
[18:42] <popey> !
[18:42] <popey> seriously?
[18:42] <daubers> popey: Yup
[18:42] <popey> got a scan/photo?
[18:42] <daubers> can do
[18:44] <daubers> popey: http://daubers.co.uk/~matt/piccymum.jpg
[18:45] <popey> heh
[18:45] <brobostigon> :)
[18:46] <brobostigon> mumbuntu (copyright), popey
[18:46] <daubers> popey: You should drop them an email with a link to your presentation :)
[18:47] <ali1234> lol @ people writing in to say they don't want a coverdisc
[18:48] <ali1234> seriously who even burns isos to blank discs any more?
[18:48] <popey> o/
[18:48] <mgdm> o/
[18:49] <daubers> o/
[18:49] <ali1234> you don't use usb instead?
[18:52] <popey> sometimes
[18:52] <mgdm> I have more blank CDs than spare flash drives
[18:53] <moreati> o/ because I use ISOs so rarely and I now CDs work, I don't know how well USB works with whatever BIOS configurations are out there
[19:04] <Myrtti> mwhahahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQHX-SjgQvQ
[19:07] <bigcalm> Shame about the canned laughter
[19:08] <directhex> * graham linehan descends & smites bigcalm
[19:08] <popey> heheh
[19:08] <popey> i was about to say that
[19:08] <bigcalm> o.O
[19:08] <bigcalm> Over my head sadly
[19:09] <popey> he writes comedy
[19:09] <bigcalm> He does indeed
[19:09] <bigcalm> Very good comedy
[19:09] <popey> he gets quite annoyed when people moan about canned laughter, because mostly it isnt
[19:09] <popey> (canned that is)
[19:09] <directhex> filmed in front of a live studio audience. audiences sometimes laugh at jokes
[19:09] <bigcalm> That's understandable
[19:10] <bigcalm> But, take M*A*S*H
[19:12] <popey> some shows they play the video to the audience
[19:12] <popey> i like that youtube vid btw Myrtti
[19:29] <bigcalm> Can you stop xmarks from responding to keyboard shortcuts?
[19:29] <bigcalm> I'm used to using shift+control+y to inspect CSS on elements with web dev tool bar
[19:29] <bigcalm> Xmarks has decided that it will nab that key binding now though
[19:30] <HazRPG> back
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> \o
[19:31] <HazRPG> I love how sometimes my days just turn into random unexpectedness
[19:31] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o/
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ok, what's her name? :P
[19:32] <HazRPG> haha not quite :P
[19:32] <brobostigon> wb HazRPG :)
[19:32] <HazRPG> brobostigon: thanks :)
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: then it wasn't _real_ random unexpectedness (or you were expecting it)
[19:34] <HazRPG> nah, was only meant to drop my friend who passed out at mine last night off home... ended up getting iced lollies, and caffeinated beverages... ringing up another of my primary school friends... and sitting in the garden with coffee :)
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> ♫ Today was a good day
[19:35] <HazRPG> then ended up drinking to PC world random (a woman that doesn't admit she's a tad geeky, but asks to see new hardware... doesn't make sense!)... and getting food, and then driving around aimlessly... then finally dropping off my mate at work, and then the other lass at home
[19:36] <HazRPG> driving** (although we were drinking energy drinks on the way)
[19:36] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: haha
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> \o/ Ice Cube  :)
[19:37] <HazRPG> :P
[19:57] <Azelphur> are there any mobile providers that do 3g sticks that don't expire your purchases at the end of the month?
[19:57] <Azelphur> It'd be cool to pick up a 3g stick to use as a fallback internet connection :p
[19:57] <Fanshawe> Hey fellas. Got a problem with my filesystem on my laptop. Running from Live CD and nothing's working. I'm suspecting a hardware failure. Any way to verify this?
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: We actually sell that here in .nl :)
[19:58] <Azelphur> Fanshawe: system > administration > disk utility > select drive > SMART
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 3G stick you stick in your DSL modem, when DSL drops, 3G takes over
[19:58] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea that's pretty much what I want, my router is DD-WRT so it shouldn't be too amazingly difficult to do
[19:59] <Azelphur> but over here all the providers expire your topups :/
[19:59] <Azelphur> if you buy 10GB after 30 days if you havn't used it you loose it
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: annoying
[19:59] <Azelphur> indeed :(
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Vodafone has a special plan for low use here
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it costs €5/day (for a few MB only), but only on days that you use it
[19:59] <Fanshawe> Azelphur: I'm in the disk utility now. Where there would normally be my filesystem (/dev/sda1) there is now 'Unknown'. I'm not sure where your SMART option is.
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and any money you add to your account with them doesn't expire for a year
[20:00] <Azelphur> Fanshawe: when you click on the hard drisk in the disk utility, on the right side under serial number etc, above the big bar showing unknown, there should be a SMART Data button
[20:01] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: silly expiries, I wonder why they get away with that legally
[20:01] <Fanshawe> Azelphur: Ah. SMART status: Not supported.
[20:01] <Azelphur> Fanshawe: woa, old drive I guess :p
[20:01] <Fanshawe> What's weird is, this filesystem was working not long ago. Earlier today, in fact.
[20:01] <Fanshawe> It stopped after a crash.
[20:02] <Fanshawe> Hence why I'm thinking hardware failure...
[20:02] <Fanshawe> Or if I'm lucky, I've just done something horrendously (but fixably) wrong.
[20:02] <Azelphur> what's the model of the drive?
[20:03] <Fanshawe> ATA ASUS-PHISON OB SSD
[20:04] <Azelphur> oh it's an SSD :p
[20:04] <brobostigon> same as in my eeepc.
[20:04] <Fanshawe> Yeah, I should've mentioned. It's a netbook, an old eepc 900.
[20:05] <Azelphur> brobostigon: does your one support SMART?
[20:05] <Fanshawe> It used to be trusty, before it, you know, bricked.
[20:05] <brobostigon> Azelphur: no idea, in truth,
[20:05] <Azelphur> my SSD supports SMART but it's a high performance corsair :P
[20:05] <Azelphur> brobostigon: fire up disk utility and look? :P
[20:05] <brobostigon> Azelphur: one minute.
[20:05] <Azelphur> ty :)
[20:06] <brobostigon> Azelphur: it says not supported, sorry.
[20:06] <Fanshawe> Thanks for checking, brobostigon
[20:06] <Azelphur> yea, that explains that then :)
[20:06] <brobostigon> Fanshawe: youre welcome,
[20:07] <Azelphur> Fanshawe: any important data on there?
[20:07] <Fanshawe> Only the OS. All of my files are on another, separate SSD.
[20:07] <Azelphur> I'd start playing with reinstalling then and see what you get
[20:08] <brobostigon> i should say, i am running under natty, incase software makes any difference,
[20:08] <Azelphur> nah probably not, probably just a cheap EEE SSD with no smart support :)
[20:09] <Azelphur> makes sense
[20:09] <Fanshawe> Yeah, this little netbook's a bit long in the tooth.
[20:09] <popey> Fanshawe: known issue...
[20:09] <Fanshawe> Known issue?
[20:10] <Azelphur> popey: disappearing filesystems or lack of smart?
[20:10] <popey> bug 387272
[20:10] <popey> the second one
[20:10] <Fanshawe> awww
[20:10] <Fanshawe> shiiiit
[20:10] <brobostigon> popey: they dont seem present yet in natty,that i have seen.
[20:10] <jhanafrog> i'm visiting the UK from California :)
[20:11] <popey> what version of ubuntu are you using Fanshawe ?
[20:11] <Fanshawe> Cool. Welcome, jhanafrog.
[20:11] <Fanshawe> popey: 10.10.
[20:11] <brobostigon> yep, i had hsm violations in 10.10 aswell.
[20:11] <Fanshawe> Are you telling me Ubuntu killed my netbook?
[20:12] <popey> i would read the bug report
[20:12] <brobostigon> yes, that will make it clearer.
[20:13] <jhanafrog> i take it libatasmart is a kernel dependency required for compilation?
[20:14] <czajkowski> saw this at the weekend
[20:14] <czajkowski> http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/06/toshiba-ac100-android-smartbook-hits-the-united-kingdom/
[20:14] <czajkowski> rather tempted to buy it
[20:14] <Fanshawe> This bug report is a bit overwhelming. All I really want to know is if the hardware's buggered.
[20:14] <czajkowski> there are a lot of threads on it on ubuntu though
[20:14] <brobostigon> Fanshawe: no, it isnt,
[20:15] <jhanafrog> how big is the screen czajkowski?
[20:15] <Fanshawe> brobostigon: Thank you and that is awesome.
[20:15] <brobostigon> Fanshawe: can i make a suggestion,
[20:15] <Fanshawe> Certainly.
[20:15] <czajkowski> The 10.1-inch, 1.9-pounder
[20:16] <brobostigon> Fanshawe: i dont get those errors anymore in natty, would it  be possibleto try natty on said machine?
[20:16] <Fanshawe> Natty being
[20:17] <brobostigon> Fanshawe: natty is the development version of ubuntu due out, end of next month,
[20:17] <brobostigon> !natty
[20:17] <Fanshawe> Ahh, I see.
[20:17] <popey> its not as simple as that
[20:17] <popey> if the disk has already had a dodgy version of ubuntu on it, then just installing another version on top rarely fixes it
[20:17] <popey> (I have a broken eee 900)
[20:18] <brobostigon> popey: i know it isnt, but i just thought, it would be goodto see, if its  stillthere or not,
[20:18] <Fanshawe> I'll happily do whatever I have to, to get this little thing running again
[20:18] <brobostigon> popey: in which case i would dd the disk with zeroes, and start from scratch
[20:19] <brobostigon> popey: startfrom there.
[20:19] <jhanafrog> i don't get why the error is happening.  i'm sure some ssd drives work fine.  is it something in the firmware, or what?
[20:19] <Fanshawe> brobostigon: You have now gone far, far above my head.
[20:19] <brobostigon> Fanshawe: ask popey,he  will be able to explain it, muchbetter than me,
[20:20] <jhanafrog> i'm wondering why deleting partitions and reformatting isn't sufficient
[20:21] <brobostigon> Fanshawe: sorry, i am not good explaining these things.
[20:22] <Fanshawe> That's alright, brobostigon, you may have just prevented me from throwing the damn thing in the bin
[20:22] <jhanafrog> Fanshawe: man dd
[20:22] <jhanafrog> it's just a way of writing to a disk
[20:22] <jhanafrog> in very simplistic terms :)
[20:23] <zleap> Devon and cornwall Lug meeting next Saturday (2nd April)
[20:23] <brobostigon> popey: you havedone more work ontht bug, could you guide them, please.
[20:25] <popey> Fanshawe: throw it in the bin :)
[20:25] <Fanshawe> ... Bugger.
[20:25] <popey> you can try wiping and reinstalling of course
[20:26] <Fanshawe> I'll try whatever.
[20:26] <Fanshawe> Whatever it takes, really.
[20:26] <jhanafrog> Fanshawe: i would try installing the other linux you have
[20:26] <jhanafrog> the one that came with the eeepc if you have it.
[20:27] <Fanshawe> Seems like a logical step, jhanafrog. I even have a copy of the ISO that the previous owner originally used.
[20:27] <brobostigon> or something really baisc like a version of debian
[20:27] <jhanafrog> better yet, try creating a natty live iso
[20:27] <jhanafrog> test that first?
[20:28] <popey> i dont think thats wise
[20:28] <jhanafrog> natty wouldn't boot on my system
[20:28] <popey> natty isnt finished yet
[20:28]  * brobostigon is playing the odds.
[20:28] <jhanafrog> hmmm, yeah it is safer to use the other iso
[20:29] <jhanafrog> the weird thing is that the live usb boots just fine on the disk, just when it installs it doesn't boot right.  weird.
[20:29] <Fanshawe> Alright, thank you, chaps. I'll be trying out the old ISO and reporting back soon.
[20:29] <brobostigon> Fanshawe: good luck,
[20:29] <jhanafrog> cool Fanshawe :)
[20:29] <jhanafrog> may the force be with you
[20:31] <zleap> :)
[20:32] <Fanshawe> Question: Should I do anything with the drive before attempting to install from another Live CD?
[20:32] <zleap> i wish it was,  it would make getting people to use ubuntu easier,  me: you will use ubuntu ,  other person, I will use Ubuntu
[20:32] <zleap> jedi mind trick would be useful
[20:34] <brobostigon> Fanshawe: iwould simply re'partition it normally, and if not, dd the whole thing,
[20:47] <BigRedS> Any lighttpd users? I'm trying to work out how to work out which file it was looking for when it returns a 404
[20:47] <BigRedS> Apache sticks that in the log, lighttpd doesn't appear to by default
[21:00] <brobostigon> bbc2. wonders of the universe, now.
[21:00] <popey> ooo
[21:27] <gord> may have spent all day playing 3ds.. the world seems so.... flat.. now
[21:28] <directhex> gord, play some 3d games on your ps3!
[21:31] <popey> so what do we do with buckets and water on this checkerboard?
[21:32] <popey> er
[21:32] <popey> other channel :)
[21:41] <hamitron> sheesh
[21:41] <hamitron> psu so on the limit, can't even take a case fan
[21:41] <hamitron> fails to boot :/
[21:44] <hamitron> once I remove 4 of the hdd, be ok
[21:44] <hamitron> :)
[21:56] <g5236m> @search harry potter
[21:56] <Azelphur> !piracy | g5236m
[21:56] <gord> heh, needed to pay some council tax online, fill in the form and at the end it tells you to check your details. of course for security it *'s out all your details apart from the last word ;)
[21:57] <hamitron> hehe
[21:57] <hamitron> Azelphur: he could be searching for the cinema release date of the last film? ;)
[21:57] <Azelphur> haha
[21:58] <gord> y'know, i find myself printing off web pages to pdf whenever i want to save recepts and such. why can't web browers just have a "set in stone" Button or something that basically does the same thing but keeps it in searchable memory
[21:58] <hamitron> don't they?
[21:58] <ali1234> pdfs are searchable
[21:59] <ali1234> hamitron: they don't really, cos too much javascript nonsense
[21:59] <ali1234> i've got a system that can archive websites fully
[21:59] <ali1234> it works by intercepting all outgoing http requests and archiving everything
[21:59] <gord> well for now you just print to pdf, thats fine, but i'd rather not go through the charade of pretending that i'm printing it
[22:00] <ali1234> i haven't written the part that actually reassembles the page yet
[22:00] <hamitron> how you print to pdf?
[22:00] <hamitron> I had something installed for it before
[22:00] <ali1234> file->print
[22:00] <gord> i just want to say "Please archive this page, but in a way that does not let it change because of javascript/web sillyness"
[22:00] <ali1234> select pdf
[22:00] <hamitron> I assume it doesn't work in winblows
[22:00] <ali1234> only if you install acrobat
[22:00] <ali1234> then you get the pdf printer driver
[22:01] <ali1234> windows by default has "print to xps"
[22:01] <ali1234> god knows what an xps is
[22:01] <hamitron> ends in .xps? ;)
[22:01] <ali1234> some microsoft rip off of pdf probably
[22:01] <ali1234> well, pdf is a close relative of postscript, xps is probably "microsoft eXtended post script (incompatible with everything ever)"
[22:02] <hamitron> yeh
[22:02] <hamitron> :/
[22:02] <hamitron> "lets see how little we can add to break things"
[22:03] <hamitron> the UUID of a drive is unique to the drive, nothing to do with the interface?
[22:07] <hamitron> guessing so, it boots
[22:09] <BigRedS> hamitron: unique to the partition
[22:09] <BigRedS> statistically, though. There's no central register, just vastly more UUIDs than partitions in teh world
[22:09] <matti> '
[22:09] <matti> ;]
[22:09] <hamitron> I meant that, sloppy writing :/
[22:10] <BigRedS> ahh
[22:11] <gord> you don't need more uuids than partitions in the world even, just more uuid's than partitions in a single system
[22:12] <hamitron> I've always cursed the UUID, for not been readable
[22:12] <hamitron> but I've actually benefited from it this time
[22:12] <hamitron> :)
[22:14] <hamitron> anyways, time for coffee while data is copying
[22:14] <hamitron> brb
[22:14] <BigRedS> haha, it's one of those things that does come in handy ocasionally
[22:14] <BigRedS> but is irrating more often :)
[22:24] <popey> blimey if people think #ubuntu goes by too fast, they should see #twitlive
[22:25] <bigcalm> Not on this server...
[22:25] <popey> irc.twit.tv iirc
[22:25] <bigcalm> I see
[22:29] <hamitron> the clue is in the name, for the types of people who use it ;/
[22:30] <popey> heh
[22:30] <popey> its bonkers
[22:30] <popey> http://blog.sucuri.net/2011/03/mysql-com-compromised.html
[22:31] <AlanBell> presumably that is during a live recording
[22:31] <popey> yes
[22:31] <popey> they have over 1000 people online right now
[22:31] <popey> hmm, their chat might be limited to 1000
[22:33] <hamitron> how is best to reduce power drawn from the psu?
[22:33] <hamitron> set cpu to low speed, etc?
[22:33] <directhex> hamitron, depends on the psu design
[22:34] <hamitron> cheap
[22:34] <hamitron> ;)
[22:34] <directhex> hamitron, e.g. number of rails
[22:34] <directhex> hamitron, cheap will be single-rail
[22:34] <hamitron> it has 2 x 12V rails
[22:34] <directhex> ah, dual rail. roughly equal distribution of devices on both?
[22:34] <hamitron> 10A and 12A
[22:35] <hamitron> but atm it doesn't provide enough power
[22:35] <hamitron> just wanting it to run, don't need high performance
[22:36] <hamitron> may try lowering voltages too
[22:36] <Azelphur> epicness, kupfer dev just patched in multi X support :D
[22:37] <hamitron> Azelphur: so your problem should be fixed?
[22:37] <hamitron> :D
[22:37] <Azelphur> my kupfer problem? yea :p
[22:38] <hamitron> dunno wtf kupfer is ;/
[22:38] <Azelphur> you know gnome-do?
[22:38] <hamitron> no
[22:38] <hamitron> ;D
[22:38] <Azelphur> hamitron: http://kaizer.se/wiki/kupfer/
[22:39] <Azelphur> basically just ctrl+f type fi and by the time you've done that it probably figured out you want firefox :)
[22:39] <hamitron> what is wrong with alt+f2?
[22:39] <hamitron> ;/
[22:39] <AlanBell> I have surprised my parents by turning up to stay the night, after they have filled out their census
[22:39] <Azelphur> hamitron: this is like alt+f2 on steroids
[22:39] <Azelphur> basically :P
[22:40] <hamitron> haha AB
[22:40] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[22:40] <hamitron> nn brob
[22:40] <hamitron> well Azelphur
[22:40] <hamitron> steriods is cheating imo ;)
[22:40] <Azelphur> haha
[22:41] <brobostigon> night hamitron
[22:41] <Azelphur> hamitron: it does math, you can install stuff from apt, launch applications, search your bookmarks, everything is in there
[22:41] <Azelphur> it's fancy :)
[22:41] <hamitron> <3 LXDE
[22:42] <hamitron> not sure how well it will run on the thin client I ordered though
[23:16] <hamitron> damn I am feeling good now, actually got myself shifted and comps are nearly sorted
[23:16] <hamitron> :)
[23:38]  * penguin42 is working through trying to get cyanogenmod on his phone
[23:39] <penguin42> seems to be a lot of black magic involved
[23:39] <hamitron> :)
[23:40] <penguin42> anyone done it?
[23:40] <BigRedS> I did it on my G1
[23:40] <hamitron> I'm a phone newb
[23:40] <hamitron> :/
[23:40] <Azelphur> penguin42: I have cyanogen on my DZ, the latest version :)
[23:40] <BigRedS> not much black magic, there's guides all over XDA developers, just follow them exactly
[23:40] <BigRedS> 'just' :)
[23:41] <hamitron> :))
[23:41]  * penguin42 has a ZTE blade
[23:41] <Azelphur> penguin42: my mum has a ZTE Blade, I tried cyanogenmod last month and it was rather unstable
[23:42] <hamitron> :/
[23:42] <Azelphur> the blade port hasn't been out very long at all
[23:42] <Azelphur> but I assume you can cope with pulling the battery out every now and again when it freezes, let me know how you get on :)
[23:42] <penguin42> BigRedS: The instructions are somewhat random; for example I've got adb working good, it took me a while to find fastboot - everything tells me I want it but finding it was harder
[23:43] <BigRedS> ahhh
[23:43] <BigRedS> I think it was simpler in my day - everything was linked to
[23:43] <BigRedS> the instructions for Darky's on my Galaxy were similar, too
[23:44] <penguin42> and clockwordmod doesn't want to play ball
[23:45] <directhex> i'm on froydvillain 1.7
[23:45] <directhex> on mah htc hewo!
[23:45] <BigRedS> mmm, clockwork's different to how it used to be
[23:46] <BigRedS> I kept only half-reading the instructions, and then wondering where it was
[23:46] <directhex> USING CLOCKWORKMOD HELPS FUND MONO DEVELOPMENT AAAARGH
[23:47] <BigRedS> huh?
[23:47] <hamitron> why all the anti mono? ;/
[23:47] <BigRedS> I think it's mostly in jest
[23:50] <directhex> koushik dutta, the guy behind clockwork mod, has been tinkering with mono for a while. he's got commits in mono itself now. and clockwork mod funds him.
[23:50] <directhex> and the anti-mono because it amuses me that some people really feel that way