[00:18] <gamerchick02> the computer is quieter? did you clean it or something?
[00:20] <rick_h_> muzzle
[00:20] <Blazeix> he shot it with a 12-gauge.
[00:20] <rick_h_> and some training
[00:20] <gamerchick02> ah. ok...
[00:22] <rick_h_> http://techie-buzz.com/tech-news/mysql-com-database-compromised-sql-injection.html
[00:22] <gamerchick02> why would one shoot a computer? *confused*
[00:22] <rick_h_> ok, excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing for the next 10min
[00:25] <Blazeix> they've started cracking the passwords. Apparently their product manager's password is "6661"
[00:25] <rick_h_> gotta love it
[00:25] <rick_h_> of course each time I see these things I get afraid of what if it was my company
[00:26]  * rick_h_ puts some more spackle on that bunker of his
[00:33] <snap-l> Wow... just... wow
[00:34] <snap-l> I cleaned out the computer
[00:34] <snap-l> Took it apart to dust out the insides wit compressed air and a  vacuum cleaner
[00:34] <snap-l> Now all I can smell is that bloody bitterant they use in the Endust can
[00:38] <gamerchick02> wow. cool, snap-l.
[00:38] <gamerchick02> gotta do that every once in awhile.
[00:38] <snap-l> Yeah, hadn't done it in a while
[00:39] <gamerchick02> i should pull my laptop apart and clean it.
[00:39] <gamerchick02> heh
[00:40] <gamerchick02> on that note, i'm migrating to the couch. maybe i ought to have another glass of wine?
[00:40] <gamerchick02> hrm.
[00:40] <gamerchick02> i'll be on tomorrow. see ya'll later?
[01:03] <aupif> greg-g: hey, man. it's roy from wikipedians. finally made it out to this channel.
[01:18] <_stink_> any friend of greg-g's is a friend of ours.
[01:22] <greg-g> aupif: hiya! welcome to the channel :)
[01:23] <aupif> thanks!
[01:23] <aupif> I was going to email you, but maybe the library could display our flyer (or something similar) on those screens downstairs
[01:23] <aupif> until the screening
[01:23] <aupif> I think we'd get a lot of randoms that way
[01:25] <greg-g> yeah, I was going to try and figure that out, I'll let you know
[01:26] <aupif> k, thanks.
[01:27] <greg-g> thanks for the reminder
[02:14] <jrwren> i'm a little surprised by this, can anyone else confirm? I'm seeing a web client that sends a couple of HTTP Headers before the actually request.
[02:14] <jrwren> *actual* request
[02:15] <jrwren> Content-Location: url
[02:15] <jrwren> and then the Post /blah
[02:22] <rick_h_> sure it's the same request? and not a second one?
[02:22] <rick_h_> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec8.html#sec8.1.2.2
[02:23] <rick_h_> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec8.html#sec8.2.3
[02:23] <rick_h_> are a couple of situatinos where headers pre-request are valid
[02:23] <rick_h_> jrwren: ^^
[02:25] <jrwren> i'm positive its the same request.
[02:25] <jrwren> TY
[02:26] <jrwren> i'm going to emulate the original behavior whether it is bad or not :)
[02:27] <rick_h_> ok, I guess I missed what the question was
[02:27] <rick_h_> but cool party one!
[02:27] <rick_h_> /one/on
[03:13] <jrwren> rick_h_: you win, i think it was part of a different request.
[04:11] <snap-l> man, I have a lot of old shit on my computer
[04:11] <snap-l> lots of old dotfiles from when I had dialup access
[04:11] <snap-l> finally figured out why my hostname completiong suddenly stopped working
[04:12] <snap-l> I'd type in ssh dec[tab], and it would display shit like 127.0.0.1, ic.net, etc
[04:12] <snap-l> Apparently I had a .ssh2 directory with those entries in it
[04:14] <snap-l> https://twitter.com/zedshaw/statuses/52187975001456641
[05:27] <jrwren> lol.
[05:27] <jrwren> stupid .ssh2
[05:27] <jrwren> glad they rolled back that default
[13:27] <snap-l> ugh
[13:27] <snap-l> two power outages last night that tripped the UPS
[13:40] <rick_h_> snap-l: your power hates you
[13:40] <rick_h_> love this: http://daniel-database.blogspot.com/2011/03/sql-injection-on-mysqlcom.html
[13:40] <rick_h_> "hacked", if you can call it that, really it was a brief sharing of information we were going to put out anyway, like people's auth credentials
[13:46] <brousch> wow, did rick_h_ write this? http://teddziuba.com/2011/03/osx-unsuitable-web-development.html
[13:47] <brousch> nvm, it pimps emacs nstead of vim
[13:48] <rick_h_> hah, that was what I used to throw off the scent
[13:48] <rick_h_> but beyond that "AMEN!!!"
[13:49] <brousch> the package management is what i miss most compared to ubuntu
[13:49] <rick_h_> But really, Mac developers, stay out of the command line. You'll hurt yourselves.
[13:49] <rick_h_> lolololololol
[13:50] <rick_h_> he's right to an extent, you should be as close to production as possible
[13:50] <rick_h_> learn those hard lessons about setup/pain points in performance, etc early
[13:54] <brousch> how do you get close to production if your production environment is half a dozen VMs running bits and pieces of the program?
[13:55] <brousch> or GAE?
[13:55] <rick_h_> well, AE the best you can do is make sure you're running their IDE/vm on something they support
[13:56] <rick_h_> but still, a half dozen VM's still run XXX for an OS
[13:56] <rick_h_> I'm not saying setup a VM env that duplicates all the machines on your network
[13:56] <rick_h_> but he's right, things like python packages that use C extensions, should be built/dev'd tested on the OS they'll get deployed to
[13:57] <rick_h_> those are the things that will be different OSX/Linux of your choice, and bite you when you're not expecting it
[13:57] <brousch> ah
[13:59] <rick_h_> I know plenty of people that use OSX for dev work, but I also see a ton of people "dammit, why can't I get {db binding here} to work right, or paramiko, etc"
[13:59] <brousch> postgres and mysql installs are both annoying in osx
[14:00] <brousch> half the time i make a little ubuntu server vm to use for DB
[14:01] <snap-l> There's some valid points, but that article is flawed
[14:01] <snap-l> The UNIX way is to compile from source
[14:02] <rick_h_> oh come on, how many companies deploy to 'compiled from source'?
[14:02] <snap-l> And we have a WINNER!
[14:02] <snap-l> ;)
[14:03] <rick_h_> the argument isn't package vs source, but "as a dev, get close to production"
[14:31] <rick_h_> j
[14:32] <_stink_> Down arrow
[14:39] <rick_h_> boooo
[14:43] <_stink_> hehe
[15:40] <snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/ZyeCO.jpg
[15:42] <rick_h_> lol, nice
[15:42] <rick_h_> brousch: need to chat, /me needs graphics helps
[15:42] <snap-l> I think I have ab uilding wire fault that's causing the problem with my UPS
[15:42] <snap-l> s/uilding/building/
[15:43] <_stink_> :/
[15:43] <snap-l> Yeah, not fun
[15:44] <snap-l> Though I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason we're not in happy electricville is because they swapped meters a while ago
[15:44] <snap-l> ever since that happened, I've been having electrical problems
[15:44] <snap-l> (causality)
[15:44] <_stink_> for sure
[15:46] <rick_h_> ouch
[15:46] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=120R2-phK0U&feature=autoshare
[16:27] <greg-g> http://teddziuba.com/2011/03/osx-unsuitable-web-development.html (thanks lmorchard)
[16:28] <brousch> rick_h_: what's up?
[16:28] <jcastro> greg-g: fixed that for you: "osx is an unsuitable platform"
[16:28] <greg-g> jcastro: yeah, he was a tad generous :)
[16:29] <rick_h_> hah
[16:30] <rick_h_> we were discussing this earlier
[16:30] <rick_h_> brousch: bookie icon, have two ideas for you if you think you might be interested in helping
[16:31] <brousch> i can give it a try
[16:31] <greg-g> yay, icons!
[16:33] <rick_h_> brousch: pm me an email I can share a google doc with you pls
[16:34] <brousch> brousch@gmail.com
[16:38] <rick_h_> ok, sent, snap-l and greg-g as well, feedback at will
[16:39] <rick_h_> Blazeix: don't have you in my gmail, but if you send it I'll add you as well
[16:43] <brousch> second one would be easier i think, but would lose a lot at low res
[16:43] <rick_h_> so the ookie part is just for reference
[16:43] <rick_h_> in the web ui and such I'd add that in
[16:43] <rick_h_> the B is the icon concept on both
[16:43] <greg-g> I did it all for the ookie
[16:44] <brousch> and we have a theme song
[16:44] <rick_h_> yea, at small icon I wasn't sure which would come out cleaner
[16:44] <greg-g> brousch: :)
[16:44] <rick_h_> since the one is more graphic makes up the letter, but the other, you need to see the letter and the bookmark paper bits might not be clear
[16:45] <brousch> right, you'll lose the paper at small size
[16:45] <rick_h_> anyone have opinions/etc?
[16:45] <rick_h_> alternative ideas?
[16:45] <brousch> might be able to do a stack of books, end-on and have it survive
[16:45] <_stink_> rick_h_: can you email the mockups to me?
[16:45] <rick_h_> decided in playing with the extension and having 3 different delicious icons in my toolbar right now it needs to change lol
[16:45] <rick_h_> _stink_: emaield
[16:45] <rick_h_> err, emailed
[16:45] <rick_h_> might work better
[16:45] <_stink_> thanks!
[16:48] <_stink_> i actually like the idea for the first one better
[16:49] <_stink_> i like having a bold B on the book cover instead of having the books in the shape of a B.
[16:49] <rick_h_> _stink_: cool, I was leaning that way as well, but it seems harder to make the book look like a book at icon size
[16:50] <_stink_> how many pixels are we talking?
[16:51] <snap-l> I have an idea for the B
[16:51] <snap-l> I'll scan it in in a sec
[16:51] <greg-g> rick_h_: / brousch here are some public domain book icons to take a look at and see if they are useful as building blocks: http://www.diigo.com/list/greg-g/bookie
[16:51] <greg-g> and _stink_ / snap-l as well, now that I caught up with who all is talking about it :)
[16:52] <greg-g> favicons are most commonly 16x16, btw
[16:52] <rick_h_> _stink_: docs say to provide a 128, 48, and 16 versions
[16:52] <greg-g> yeah
[16:53] <_stink_> if i were up to me, i'd assume the 16x16 will be very different, and make the bigger ones looks good.
[16:53] <greg-g> and bigger versions for other uses, of course. Also, the 16x16 version acn just be a simplified version (duh)
[16:53] <_stink_> but maybe this is anti-branding.
[16:53] <_stink_> right
[16:53] <_stink_> ok
[16:53] <brousch> i think the 128, 64, and 48 are for mobile "desktop" shortcuts
[16:53] <greg-g> I mean, Wikipedia has that big puzzleglobe for their big icon, but just a stylized "W" as their favicon
[16:53] <rick_h_> problem is the best icons work small as well
[16:54] <greg-g> brb, heating up lunch
[16:54] <rick_h_> http://www.delicious.com/deuce868 upper left for delicious, hmm, instapaper doesn't even have one
[16:54] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/jrl/
[16:55] <_stink_> heh, just realized i never see favicons because i use vimperator.
[16:55] <snap-l> Here's an idea for an icon
[16:55] <snap-l> The B with a longer bookmark
[16:55] <rick_h_> I think the 3rd, bottom right
[16:55] <snap-l> which almost looks like a snake's tongue
[16:55] <rick_h_> I was going through images earch results for bookmarkk last night
[16:55] <rick_h_> and it's a tough one, not a lot of real options
[16:55] <rick_h_> but I find I use post-it notes for the most part
[16:56] <snap-l> I do too
[16:56] <_stink_> crap, i wish i had a scanner nearby.
[16:56] <rick_h_> and saw some like that and figured that might be cool
[16:56] <rick_h_> so I was trying to figure out how to get post-it notes into a design to mean bookmarks
[16:56] <snap-l> rick_h_: I think you need to go more oldschool
[16:56] <snap-l> otherwise it just looks like paper
[16:56] <snap-l> or a bar-graph. ;)
[16:57] <rick_h_> what if it's not the whole book
[16:57] <rick_h_> but only the last couple inches with the paper hanging out the end?
[16:57] <rick_h_> so the B moves to the font/normal text
[16:57] <_stink_> if bookmarks end up as part of the icon, maybe putting clean little tassels on the end of them would help
[16:57] <_stink_> to make it obvious what they are
[16:58] <rick_h_> but tassles disappear at small size
[16:58] <_stink_> that is true.
[16:58] <rick_h_> updated the gdoc
[17:00] <snap-l> I think too that the sans-serif font isn't going to work.
[17:01] <snap-l> I was thinking of something like Droid serif italicized
[17:01] <rick_h_> well yea, but just default font there for the doc
[17:01] <snap-l> Ah, OK
[17:01] <rick_h_> concentrating on the image part
[17:01] <snap-l> OK
[17:01] <rick_h_> yea, will make the font pretty/etc but really, just not having a toolbar icon is what's provoking this, didn't want to deal with it yet tbh
[17:01] <snap-l> heh
[17:02] <rick_h_> time to code vs design crap
[17:02] <rick_h_> http://goo.gl/pgbKO
[17:03] <rick_h_> I really like that idea, the angle book thing with the bmark out the top?
[17:03] <snap-l> That's the stuff of nightmares
[17:03] <rick_h_> not the bmark in use, but the book itself
[17:03] <tjagoda> snap-l: ping
[17:03] <rick_h_> would do something at that angle with paper stuff
[17:03] <tjagoda> You use amazon mp3 store, right?
[17:04] <rick_h_> amazon mp3 ftw
[17:04] <_stink_> rick_h_: just shared a slightly changed mockup with you
[17:04] <_stink_> mostly like the first one
[17:04] <tjagoda> Does it work well on 10.10?
[17:04] <rick_h_> _stink_: ok, feel free to edit the original doc though
[17:04] <tjagoda> and also, do they DRM/
[17:05] <snap-l> tjagoda: NFC, I use Banshee
[17:05] <tjagoda>  / = ?
[17:05] <_stink_> ok, i'll throw it on there instead
[17:06] <_stink_> hah, too bad i can't copy/paste from one google drawing to another.
[17:06] <rick_h_> _stink_: yea, so I originall thoguht something like that, except that the icons are square, so you have more room if you make the bookbmark papers out the end
[17:06] <rick_h_> vs a very vertical icon that way
[17:06] <_stink_> rick_h_: yeah, i see what you mean.
[17:07] <_stink_> maybe having it tilted like http://www.openclipart.org/detail/101017
[17:07] <_stink_> would solve that
[17:07] <_stink_> fwiw.
[17:07] <rick_h_> yea, that's what that link above was for
[17:07] <rick_h_> more a, go iso and only use the top of the book as an icon
[17:08] <_stink_> hmm
[17:08] <snap-l> God, I really hate INkscape
[17:08] <greg-g> heh
[17:09] <tjagoda> rick_h: Does amazon do DRM?
[17:09] <rick_h_> tjagoda: thought they were drm-free mp3 files
[17:10] <rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/dmusic/help/faq.html
[17:10] <rick_h_> "All our songs are in MP3 format and are free from DRM (digital rights management), so you can play them in any music program and on any MP3 device, including the iPod"
[17:10] <brousch> inkscape is awesome
[17:10] <_stink_> pretty funny to think about folks watching me struggle with google draw
[17:10] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/jru/
[17:11] <tjagoda> mmmmm
[17:11] <tjagoda> no drm
[17:11] <snap-l> tjagoda: If you're buying music online with DRM, you're doing it wrong
[17:11] <tjagoda> Perhaps you missed to "NO" in that post?
[17:11] <tjagoda> =P
[17:11] <rick_h_> snap-l: ok, so close the serifs of the B off and have some page edge lines in there so the end of the b looks like a book with a marker hanging out and I'm sold
[17:12] <snap-l> tjagoda: I'm saying that it's not uncommon anymore
[17:12] <brousch> _stink_: you don't need a scanner when you have a camera in your pocket
[17:13] <brousch> you could use the tilted book then have each letter in "bookie" on its own book mark sticking out the top
[17:13] <_stink_> brousch: i have a symbian s60 phone.  i do not know an easy way to share my pictures...
[17:13] <_stink_> brousch++
[17:14] <_stink_> i was thinking that
[17:14] <_stink_> at least having the most prominent bookmark have a B at the top
[17:14] <rick_h_> hmmm, yea and at 16x16 it would just be the book with the marks
[17:14] <rick_h_> no text
[17:15] <brousch> the 16x16 would have a little triangle and some squares. if it matched the color scheme of the original it might mesh well
[17:16] <rick_h_> right
[17:16] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/jru/ again (once it loads)
[17:16] <brousch> i probably won't fire up inkscape until tomorrow. big grwebdev meeting tonight so it's crazy day
[17:16] <snap-l> u1 is taking it's sweet time to upload the latest change
[17:16] <rick_h_> brousch: no problem at all, thanks for thinking about it a bit
[17:16] <brousch> the B is farting fire!
[17:16] <_stink_> hot sauce!
[17:16] <rick_h_> lol
[17:17] <snap-l> Nice.. u1conflict.
[17:17] <brousch> you could form that B from a bookmark hanging the length in back and two big books in front
[17:17] <snap-l> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/bookie.svg.u1conflict
[17:20] <rick_h_> hmm, maybe take the idea straight up
[17:21] <Blazeix> rick_h_: wafuqua@gmail.com, btw
[17:22] <Blazeix> also, I have icons I've been using for the chrome extension
[17:22] <snap-l> If you go up, then you run out of space
[17:22] <Blazeix> just googled "bookie" and found that most oldtime bookies apparently wore green visors.
[17:23] <Blazeix> so i've been using http://frabjous.ath.cx/files/upload/bookie.png and http://frabjous.ath.cx/files/upload/bookie_bookmarked.png
[17:23] <Blazeix> since I was worried Blogger had the mindshare on B-related icons.
[17:24] <_stink_> heh, that's a neat play
[17:24] <rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, I thought about that, but I don't want to go with the gambler image
[17:25] <rick_h_> I figure it'll be hard enough to get the bookie into bookmarks play without going the other way
[17:26] <Blazeix> yeah, true. Though if you go with a 1920s style bookie you don't get into the 'dirty gambler' stereotype
[17:26] <Blazeix> something like this guy: http://www.best-of-web.com/_images_300/Vintage_Banker_or_Bookie_100604-006385-339042.jpg
[17:26] <snap-l> Because that's the first thing I think of when I think of bookies (accountants)
[17:26] <snap-l> (not really)
[17:27] <rick_h_> ah, yea when I did a search to see if the name was taken in the software space I ran into a ton of gambling stuff
[17:27] <rick_h_> wasn't thinking old school acct's
[17:28] <snap-l> I think we should call it John Smith
[17:28] <snap-l> That's the name that Doctor Who uses whenever he tells someone his name
[17:28] <brousch> ok, two concepts before i get out of here
[17:28] <snap-l> and it'll be great for Google Searches. :)
[17:29] <brousch> 1. space out ribbons more http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/IMG_20110328_122430.jpg
[17:30] <brousch> 2. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/IMG_20110328_122416.jpg
[17:30] <brousch> small version loses text on ribon, but retains the shape and colors
[17:37] <snap-l> I'm not a fan of angled icons like that
[17:37] <snap-l> doesn't scale,I'm afraid
[17:37] <snap-l> But I do like the multi-bookmarks out of a book idea
[17:37] <rick_h_> I've updated the 3rd view in the google doc and thinking about that
[17:38] <rick_h_> actual work came down the pipe so have to go do taht for a bit
[17:38] <rick_h_> thanks for the ideas everyone, crap. Thought I knew what I wanted and then I don't gah!
[17:40] <greg-g> :)
[18:26] <jrwren> snap-l: lol @ book a week -> book a month.
[18:26] <jrwren> were they to be tech books?
[18:26] <jrwren> or fiction?
[18:26] <jrwren> scifi?
[18:26] <jrwren> zomg ninkendo_ !!!
[18:26] <jrwren> ninkendo_: I had dinner with Justin Burdine last Thursday. he is well.
[18:30] <snap-l> jrwren: Both
[18:51] <jrwren> is patrick still in here?
[18:59] <rick_h_> jcastro: http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/03/28/1716239/Intel-Replaces-Consumer-SSD-Line-Nixes-SLC-SSD?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+slashdot%2FeqWf+%28Slashdot%3A+Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
[18:59] <rick_h_> crap, sorry
[18:59] <jcastro> it doesn't bench too well unfortunately
[18:59] <jcastro> first the 510 and now this. :-/
[18:59] <jcastro> it's like they stopped caring
[18:59] <rick_h_> :(
[18:59]  * jcastro is waiting for the vertex 3 this month
[18:59] <rick_h_> guess it's time to drop the intel
[19:00] <jcastro> this drive makes sense as a middle of the road drive
[19:00] <jcastro> it's the 510 that makes no sense whatsoever
[19:00] <rick_h_> yea
[19:01] <snap-l> #Eventually it'll sort itself out
[19:01] <snap-l> There's only enough room at the bleeding edge before folks stop caring, and start going consumer
[19:02] <snap-l> s/consumer/cheaper/
[19:20] <snap-l> This is interesting
[19:21] <snap-l> Ordered a Legacy recording from Amazon
[19:21] <snap-l> and they essentially burned me a CD-R of it
[19:21] <snap-l> I'll have to bring it in to the next event. Pretty wild.
[19:21] <rick_h_> http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-illustration-14111879-book-icon.php?st=20f57f9 I like a lot
[19:21] <rick_h_> really? interesting
[19:21] <snap-l> rick_h_: I really like that
[19:22] <snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, first I've seen this
[19:22] <snap-l> (the burned CD-R). Almost like what Magnatune sent out back when
[19:23] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, emailed the author to see what it could cost to get some custom color and the B onto the cover
[19:28] <brousch> geez, nice
[19:28] <brousch> i'm always amazed at what real graphics artists come up with compared to me
[19:33] <rick_h_> hmmm, so what license would I need to get I wonder
[19:33] <rick_h_> crazy
[19:34] <rick_h_> boo, can't use in any logo?
[19:34] <brousch> it doesn't look that hard to make
[19:35] <rick_h_> yea, I'll see what the author says first
[19:35] <rick_h_> since it's his thing, I'd feel better if I paid him for it and such
[19:36] <rick_h_> but worst case yea, I guess I'll go another route
[21:48] <snap-l> Bah, I keep forgetting to mention to tjagoda re: RIM's two CEOs
[21:50]  * snap-l is listening to Wendy Carlos' Beauty and the Beast
[21:50] <snap-l> and I have to say, it's pretty damn challenging
[21:52] <brousch> are you going to cry?
[21:52] <snap-l> No, I'm not
[21:52] <snap-l> Have you heard it?
[21:53] <brousch> no
[21:54] <jrwren> so those two CEO's, i guess they got rim jobs
[21:54] <snap-l> bah dump chish
[21:55] <snap-l> http://www.appleoutsider.com/2011/03/25/rimm/
[21:55] <snap-l> They also have three COOs
[21:55] <brousch> ooooh http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/03/28/1634259/Java-Creator-James-Gosling-Hired-At-Google
[21:56] <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, Google wants the creator of each of the languages they use on the payroll
[21:56] <snap-l> (credit to Twitter for that one)
[21:56] <snap-l> http://www.rim.com/newsroom/mediaexecutive/index.shtml
[21:57] <snap-l> Jeez, too many Chiefs in the kitchen
[21:58] <brousch> geez you're right. guido is there too
[21:58] <jrwren> Strastrup isn't.
[21:58] <snap-l> jrwren: Nobody would hire Stroustrup
[21:58] <jrwren> lol. TRUTH
[22:00] <snap-l> You know, that quote of him hoping that computers would be as easy to use as his telephone? C++ is sure as fuck not the way to get from point A to point B.
[22:00] <snap-l> Mind you, we've moved the goalposts since then, but still. ;)
[22:10] <jrwren> actually... smart phones are exactly what he said.
[22:24] <snap-l> metaphorically, yes
[22:24] <snap-l> they're not the same thing as a desktop computer (yet)
[22:24] <snap-l> though the lines are definitely becoming blurrier each day
[22:26] <jrwren> they are more of a personal ocmputer htan a desktop computer is a personal computer.
[22:29] <snap-l> Um, now you're redefining the personal computer. :)
[22:29] <snap-l> Remember that even the lowly Altair was a "personal computer"
[22:32] <jrwren> no i'm not.
[22:32] <jrwren> and that is exactly my point.
[22:32] <jrwren> its subjective, right?
[22:32] <jrwren> its more personal for some people, because some people use it more.