* RAOF should just bite the bullet and add an interface for drivers to say “Thanks X, but kms has already set up a perfectly acceptable mode. Use it. Kthxbye’04:44
ScottKAny experience on how "Integrated Intel® 3000 HD" is working on Natty?05:25
* ScottK is considering a laptop purchase.05:25
brycehScottK, HD 3000 == sandybridge05:45
ScottKbryceh: That's bad?05:45
brycehScottK, well you've probably seen all the discussion bouncing around about it lately05:46
ScottKbryceh: I've managed to avoid it.05:46
brycehScottK, synopsis is it's currently a bit buggy, but fast.  Stick it in a closet until oneirik is out and you'll probably love it at that point05:47
brycehmaybe we'll get all the bugs sorted by N; we'll see05:47
bryceh+1 tester can't hurt05:48
brycehScottK, sandybridge is one of sarvatt's main foci right now, he knows all the patches what's worth having for SB05:48
ScottKConsidering the not so great state of video on my current i945GM laptop, how buggy is buggy?05:49
brycehstandard Intel level of buggy05:49
brycehfreezes once and a while, etc.05:49
ScottKThe current i945 doesn't freeze, but it has all kinds of wierd display effects.05:50
ScottK(the one I have anyway)05:50
ScottKPerhaps Sarvatt will have an opinion then.05:50
brycehthe main sb bug I know about is when running amd64 + ia32-libs is a bad combo05:52
brycehso sticking i386 should avoid that issue (which might be resolved by release if ia32-libs gets updated)05:52
brycehScottK, besides you know you'll be running OO in a few weeks, and that'll probably have a lot better SB support anyway05:54
ScottKI run i386 on desktops, so not a problem.05:54
hyperairsb levelclear -level clientcrap,crap,joins,parts,quits,nicks,clientnotice05:57
ScottKbryceh: Thanks for the info.06:07
RAOFAah!  *That's* why my IRC bouncer occasionally dies!  The screensaver cycles through to gltext and gltext OOMs.06:28
RAOFScottK: Have I asked you whether libdrm 2.24 resolves your problems?06:28
ScottKRAOF: You haven't, but my current laptop is still on Maverick.06:29
ScottKNetbook, on Natty, seems to be working reasonably well.06:29
RAOFOh, my.  Maverick?  So long ago :)06:29
ScottKWell I've got a major project due to the customer on Thursday.  Once it's done I'll probably take the plunge and upgrade the laptop too.06:30
codemagicianhi bjsnider 13:58
codemagicianyou might remember me, the guy who switched from Nvidia to the Nouveau drivers13:59
codemagicianim still getting the constant hanging on the x server13:59
codemagician"EQ overflowing. The server is probably stuck in an infinite loop."13:59
codemagiciani wondered how I might go about finding a solution for this?  And also, is the problem and X problem or a driver problem?14:00
tjaaltonthere is no solution, other than disabling the acceleration14:00
codemagiciantjaalton, is that in response to my question?14:00
codemagiciantjaalton, I don't believe I have anything like that enabled14:01
tjaaltonit's accelerated by default14:01
codemagicianIt "Visual Effects" menu it is set to "None". is this the same thing?14:01
codemagicianhow to I go about disabling the acceleration?14:02
tjaaltonput "nouveau.noaccel=1" to kernel options14:02
codemagiciani've never done anything like this, which command will put this option to the kernal?14:02
codemagiciani am familiar with the command line14:02
codemagicianmight be worth noting I had the same hanging problem with the Nvidia drivers also14:03
tjaaltonGRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX in /etc/default/grub, then run update-grub2 i guess14:03
tjaaltonyes, drivers have bugs that seem to be the same, but arent'14:04
codemagiciantjaalton, are you familiar with this as a bug?14:05
tjaaltonwith nouvea, yes14:05
tseliotcodemagician: in nvidia you can try adding this option: Option "NoAccel"14:05
codemagicianwhats +u ?14:06
tjaaltonme fixing a typo14:06
bjsnidertseliot, i tested the feature that is supposed to stop the nvidia-installer if the pre-install script is present. it doesn't stop the installer, it only adds a yes/no prompt14:07
codemagicianso in Nvidia that option is in the same place?14:07
tjaaltonnvidia doesn't support KMS, so it's different14:07
tseliotbjsnider: really? I don't think that was the plan...14:07
tjaaltonkernel modesetting14:07
tseliotkernel mode setting14:07
bjsnidertseliot, right, i thought you could bug aplattner about it14:08
codemagicianis this is a type of way of configuring the devices via the kernal itself?14:08
tseliotbjsnider: what's the exact text that you're getting?14:08
tjaaltoncodemagician: you need to tell the nouveau kernel module it's options before it's loaded..14:08
bjsnidertseliot, i can't give you the exact text without testing it again, but it was something like "pre-install script error: continue yes/no?"14:09
bjsnideryes is highlighted so hitting return continues14:09
bjsniderin effect all it does is make the user hit return an extra time14:09
codemagiciantjaalton, so to edit the kernel mode settings, is there an easy command tool to use?14:10
tjaaltonwhatever text editor you use14:10
codemagiciantseliot, i don't seem to even have a /etc/default directory14:11
tseliotbjsnider: I should definitely talk to Aaron about this14:11
bjsnidertjaalton, he's 100% n00b14:11
codemagiciantjaalton, , i don't seem to even have a /etc/default directory14:11
codemagiciantseliot, sorry wrong person14:11
tjaaltoncodemagician: and this is ubuntu? doubt it14:11
bjsnidertseliot, yes, i thought you'd said you wanted it to immediately exit the installer, which is not at all what's happening14:11
codemagiciantjaalton, using 10.1014:11
tjaaltonbjsnider: got it ;)14:11
codemagiciantjaalton, sorry14:11
codemagiciantjaalton, i had some weird character in the line14:12
bjsnidertjaalton, he's a mac refugee14:12
codemagicianha ha14:12
tseliotbjsnider: right, that was the plan. Only passing an additional parameter would have caused the installer to ignore that error14:12
tjaaltoncodemagician: 'nano' is probably a good editor candidate then..14:12
codemagiciantjaalton, I see GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="" at the moment14:13
tjaaltoncodemagician: so put nouveau.noaccel=1 inside the quotes14:13
codemagiciantjaalton, should I insert the nouveau.noaccel=1 in there?14:13
codemagiciantjaalton, right I ran update-grub214:14
codemagiciantjaalton, so now when I reboot how to I confirm that this option took effect?14:14
codemagiciantjaalton, it there a visual cue to show that acceleration is switched off?14:15
tseliotyou'll notice...14:15
codemagicianwill I cry as my windows take 10 mins to draw ;-)14:16
codemagicianso, this issue is a driver problem or within x?14:17
bjsniderofficially, there are no x driver bugs. x is bug-free14:17
codemagicianwill there be a driver fix?14:17
tjaaltoneventually, maybe14:18
codemagicianis this issue across all Nvidia chipsets?14:18
tjaaltonnot aiui14:18
bjsnidercodemagician, i'm using the same chip you are and i have no issues14:18
codemagiciando you think its my card, ASUS EN210 Silent14:19
codemagicianCan other hardware effect this too?  I have a Intel X-25 SSD disk and use Marvel controllers for 6GB interal Western Digital 1TB drive.  Are those things all separate?14:20
codemagician*6GB SATA III14:20
bjsnidermy board also has marvell controllers14:20
codemagiciandoes the pastbin output prove its a driver issue?14:21
codemagicianhere is the full X log on the session that hung14:23
codemagicianany suggestions or other things amiss would be welcome14:24
codemagicianback in a moment, I'll reboot and try the non-accelerated gfx machine14:25
codemagicianback, but can't say I noticed any difference so far14:27
codemagiciantjaalton,  should I try running a particular type of application to check the acceleration is off?14:28
tjaaltondmesg | grep nouveau14:29
mdeslaurtjaalton: so, is it too late to get accel quirked off by default for the problematic nouveau chipsets for natty?14:33
codemagicianBOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-2.6.35-28-generic root=UUID=5acb5583-1369-4c00-b1b2-b059a2ad0fe5 ro nouveau.noaccel=1 quiet splash14:33
codemagician(output from dmesg | grep nouveau )14:34
codemagiciantjaalton, how does it look?14:37
tjaaltoncodemagician: like it should work14:38
codemagiciantjaalton, ok... I use it. Usually it hangs my machine 2 times per day14:38
tjaaltonmdeslaur: i guess it's not too late, but I'd have to ask.. apw?14:38
codemagiciantjaalton, fingers crossed14:38
bjsniderricotz, i''m not clear on smething. if i want to use all of gnome 3 in natty + the ppa after both are released stable, is that going to be possible? or is it not known yet?18:22
kklimondabjsnider: what do you mean by possible?18:27
bjsniderright now it apparently doesn't work due to instability18:28
kklimondayeah, it's not that stable but I think it's mostly an upstream problem.18:29
bjsnideri thought they said natty woudln't have everything that gnome 3 needs18:29
kklimondawe may not have everything updated, but the goal is to update as much as possible in the ppa18:29
kklimondaI do remember raof saying that we won't get something in X that gnome-shell requires, but it hasn't been yet released in upstream and he has no idea  why are g-s folks using it ;)18:30
kklimondaRAOF: btw, do you have any leads on nvidia making everything use tons of memory?18:31
ricotzbjsnider, hi, the gtk3 releated packages in natty arent used for the official release, and if you are using the gnome3 packages will break gnome2 desktop currently18:39
ricotzgnome3 ppa*18:39
bjsniderwhat about by the end of april?18:40
ricotzi am not sure if it is possible, probably not18:41
bjsniderso then what happens to my system if i fully install the gnome 3 ppa when it and natty are stable?18:42
bjsniderwill it work in that situation if i choose to use only the gnome 3 desktop?18:43
ricotzyeah only using the gnome3 desktop should work and i hope it gets stable ;)18:43
ricotzbut currently there are still some packages missing18:44
ricotzso you should be careful with testing if you need a stable system18:45
ricotzfor me it is running with a usable stability (working around the problems)18:45
ricotzkklimonda, are you member of gnome3-team?18:48
kklimondaricotz: not really, but I've been asking similar questions recently.18:49
ricotzkklimonda, ok ;)18:49
kklimondaI've tried working on it18:50
kklimondawas interested in updating some packages18:50
kklimondabut I can't use it ;/18:50
kklimondasomething between gnome3 and the beta nvidia drivers make it much more unstable then it should be.18:50
ricotzwhat packages?18:50
kklimondaricotz: eog, libseed and libpeas18:51
ricotzi am using nvidia blob with xorg-edgers ppa and gnome3 ppa18:51
kklimondaricotz: i've tried to fix ftbfs.18:51
kklimondaricotz: yeah, the new nvidia blob seems to work for some, just not for me ;)18:51
ricotzkklimonda, ah, ok, this is in progress18:51
kklimondaI can't even use compiz recently18:51
ricotzeog needs still some packaging fixes for introspection18:52
bjsniderricotz, you don't sound confident that upstream is going to make gnome 3 stable18:52
kklimondait does seem like a lot of work to make it stable at this point :)18:52
kklimondaricotz: I'd love to help, I'll give it a shot after nvidia releases new drivers - maybe it will make it work better18:52
ricotzbjsnider, not really, it should get stable upstream, but updating gdm and gnome-session to their gtk3 builds would be some effort18:53
ricotzkklimonda, you are using 270.30? on what card?18:54
kklimondaricotz: quadro 140M18:54
kklimonda(it's 8400M or maybe 8600M)18:54
ricotzok, dont have problems here with a gtx46018:55
bjsnidermaybe because your card is like a ferrari to his pinto?18:58
kklimondabjsnider: you've just made my day :P18:58
bjsniderricotz, when you do a glxinfo does it say your opengl version is 4?18:58
bjsniderkklimonda, that was not an accurate analogy though, because your chip is at least workstation quality. it won't explode if you touch it, unlike a pinto19:00
kklimondabjsnider: ahaha, that would be funnier if my chipset wasn't the one from the faulty serie and did not actually explode (or at least stop working) at some random date ;)19:00
kklimondait's a damn time bomb19:01
bjsniderwell, nvidia's had some engineering problems in the past19:03
Sarvattkklimonda: my 8400m gs system died recently, first symptoms were that I couldn't use compiz with it because it would hang, then I had to use nouveau because the blob would always hang, then it stopped turning on completely :)19:07
kklimondaSarvatt: it doesn't hang and rather crashes19:07
kklimondaSarvatt: but yeah, I'm getting used to the idea that it's dying19:07
ricotzbjsnider, yeah, it says 4.1.019:58
RAOFkklimonda: Fedora are shipping ajax's pointer barrier stuff, which is what gnome-shell is using.  Leads for nvidia memory useage: the blob does something when it's loaded that dirties memory.  There's nothing more I can investigate without a decompiler ;).20:18
bjsniderRAOF, you mean with gnome 3 on nvidia memory usage would be huge?20:19
RAOFbjsnider: No.  The problem is that the blob causes anything that links to it to use a small but significant amount of non-sharable memory.  With cairo-gl, *anything* GTK based linked to libGL, so everything had increased memory usage.20:20
RAOFbjsnider: Unless gnome-shell requires GTK to link to GL you're not going to see the same problem.20:21

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