[04:44]  * RAOF should just bite the bullet and add an interface for drivers to say “Thanks X, but kms has already set up a perfectly acceptable mode.  Use it.  Kthxbye’
[05:25] <ScottK> Any experience on how "Integrated Intel® 3000 HD" is working on Natty?
[05:25]  * ScottK is considering a laptop purchase.
[05:45] <bryceh> ScottK, HD 3000 == sandybridge
[05:45] <ScottK> bryceh: That's bad?
[05:46] <bryceh> ScottK, well you've probably seen all the discussion bouncing around about it lately
[05:46] <ScottK> bryceh: I've managed to avoid it.
[05:47] <bryceh> ScottK, synopsis is it's currently a bit buggy, but fast.  Stick it in a closet until oneirik is out and you'll probably love it at that point
[05:47] <ScottK> Ah.
[05:47] <bryceh> maybe we'll get all the bugs sorted by N; we'll see
[05:48] <bryceh> +1 tester can't hurt
[05:48] <bryceh> ScottK, sandybridge is one of sarvatt's main foci right now, he knows all the patches what's worth having for SB
[05:49] <ScottK> Considering the not so great state of video on my current i945GM laptop, how buggy is buggy?
[05:49] <bryceh> standard Intel level of buggy
[05:49] <bryceh> freezes once and a while, etc.
[05:50] <ScottK> The current i945 doesn't freeze, but it has all kinds of wierd display effects.
[05:50] <ScottK> (the one I have anyway)
[05:50] <ScottK> Perhaps Sarvatt will have an opinion then.
[05:52] <bryceh> the main sb bug I know about is when running amd64 + ia32-libs is a bad combo
[05:52] <bryceh> so sticking i386 should avoid that issue (which might be resolved by release if ia32-libs gets updated)
[05:54] <bryceh> ScottK, besides you know you'll be running OO in a few weeks, and that'll probably have a lot better SB support anyway
[05:54] <ScottK> I run i386 on desktops, so not a problem.
[05:57] <hyperair> sb levelclear -level clientcrap,crap,joins,parts,quits,nicks,clientnotice
[06:07] <ScottK> bryceh: Thanks for the info.
[06:28] <RAOF> Aah!  *That's* why my IRC bouncer occasionally dies!  The screensaver cycles through to gltext and gltext OOMs.
[06:28] <bryceh> hah
[06:28] <RAOF> ScottK: Have I asked you whether libdrm 2.24 resolves your problems?
[06:29] <ScottK> RAOF: You haven't, but my current laptop is still on Maverick.
[06:29] <ScottK> Netbook, on Natty, seems to be working reasonably well.
[06:29] <RAOF> Oh, my.  Maverick?  So long ago :)
[06:29] <ScottK> Yeah.
[06:30] <ScottK> Well I've got a major project due to the customer on Thursday.  Once it's done I'll probably take the plunge and upgrade the laptop too.
[13:58] <codemagician> hi bjsnider 
[13:58] <bjsnider> hi
[13:59] <codemagician> you might remember me, the guy who switched from Nvidia to the Nouveau drivers
[13:59] <codemagician> im still getting the constant hanging on the x server
[13:59] <codemagician> http://pastebin.com/TMmggJnN
[13:59] <codemagician> "EQ overflowing. The server is probably stuck in an infinite loop."
[14:00] <codemagician> i wondered how I might go about finding a solution for this?  And also, is the problem and X problem or a driver problem?
[14:00] <tjaalton> there is no solution, other than disabling the acceleration
[14:00] <codemagician> tjaalton, is that in response to my question?
[14:00] <tjaalton> yes
[14:01] <codemagician> tjaalton, I don't believe I have anything like that enabled
[14:01] <tjaalton> it's accelerated by default
[14:01] <codemagician> It "Visual Effects" menu it is set to "None". is this the same thing?
[14:01] <tjaalton> no
[14:02] <codemagician> how to I go about disabling the acceleration?
[14:02] <tjaalton> put "nouveau.noaccel=1" to kernel options
[14:02] <codemagician> i've never done anything like this, which command will put this option to the kernal?
[14:02] <codemagician> i am familiar with the command line
[14:03] <codemagician> might be worth noting I had the same hanging problem with the Nvidia drivers also
[14:03] <tjaalton> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX in /etc/default/grub, then run update-grub2 i guess
[14:04] <tjaalton> yes, drivers have bugs that seem to be the same, but arent'
[14:05] <codemagician> tjaalton, are you familiar with this as a bug?
[14:05] <tjaalton> with nouvea, yes
[14:05] <tseliot> codemagician: in nvidia you can try adding this option: Option "NoAccel"
[14:05] <tjaalton> +u
[14:06] <codemagician> whats +u ?
[14:06] <tjaalton> me fixing a typo
[14:06] <codemagician> aha
[14:07] <bjsnider> tseliot, i tested the feature that is supposed to stop the nvidia-installer if the pre-install script is present. it doesn't stop the installer, it only adds a yes/no prompt
[14:07] <codemagician> so in Nvidia that option is in the same place?
[14:07] <tjaalton> nvidia doesn't support KMS, so it's different
[14:07] <tseliot> bjsnider: really? I don't think that was the plan...
[14:07] <codemagician> KMS?
[14:07] <tjaalton> kernel modesetting
[14:07] <tseliot> kernel mode setting
[14:08] <bjsnider> tseliot, right, i thought you could bug aplattner about it
[14:08] <codemagician> is this is a type of way of configuring the devices via the kernal itself?
[14:08] <tseliot> bjsnider: what's the exact text that you're getting?
[14:08] <tjaalton> codemagician: you need to tell the nouveau kernel module it's options before it's loaded..
[14:09] <bjsnider> tseliot, i can't give you the exact text without testing it again, but it was something like "pre-install script error: continue yes/no?"
[14:09] <bjsnider> yes is highlighted so hitting return continues
[14:09] <bjsnider> in effect all it does is make the user hit return an extra time
[14:10] <codemagician> tjaalton, so to edit the kernel mode settings, is there an easy command tool to use?
[14:10] <tjaalton> whatever text editor you use
[14:11] <codemagician> tseliot, i don't seem to even have a /etc/default directory
[14:11] <tseliot> bjsnider: I should definitely talk to Aaron about this
[14:11] <bjsnider> tjaalton, he's 100% n00b
[14:11] <codemagician> tjaalton, , i don't seem to even have a /etc/default directory
[14:11] <codemagician> tseliot, sorry wrong person
[14:11] <tjaalton> codemagician: and this is ubuntu? doubt it
[14:11] <bjsnider> tseliot, yes, i thought you'd said you wanted it to immediately exit the installer, which is not at all what's happening
[14:11] <codemagician> tjaalton, using 10.10
[14:11] <tjaalton> bjsnider: got it ;)
[14:11] <codemagician> tjaalton, sorry
[14:12] <codemagician> tjaalton, i had some weird character in the line
[14:12] <bjsnider> tjaalton, he's a mac refugee
[14:12] <codemagician> ha ha
[14:12] <tseliot> bjsnider: right, that was the plan. Only passing an additional parameter would have caused the installer to ignore that error
[14:12] <tjaalton> codemagician: 'nano' is probably a good editor candidate then..
[14:13] <codemagician> tjaalton, I see GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="" at the moment
[14:13] <tjaalton> codemagician: so put nouveau.noaccel=1 inside the quotes
[14:13] <codemagician> tjaalton, should I insert the nouveau.noaccel=1 in there?
[14:14] <codemagician> tjaalton, right I ran update-grub2
[14:14] <codemagician> tjaalton, so now when I reboot how to I confirm that this option took effect?
[14:15] <tjaalton> yep
[14:15] <codemagician> tjaalton, it there a visual cue to show that acceleration is switched off?
[14:15] <tseliot> you'll notice...
[14:16] <tjaalton> right..
[14:16] <codemagician> will I cry as my windows take 10 mins to draw ;-)
[14:17] <codemagician> so, this issue is a driver problem or within x?
[14:17] <tjaalton> driver
[14:17] <bjsnider> officially, there are no x driver bugs. x is bug-free
[14:17] <codemagician> will there be a driver fix?
[14:18] <tjaalton> eventually, maybe
[14:18] <codemagician> is this issue across all Nvidia chipsets?
[14:18] <tjaalton> not aiui
[14:18] <bjsnider> codemagician, i'm using the same chip you are and i have no issues
[14:19] <codemagician> do you think its my card, ASUS EN210 Silent
[14:20] <codemagician> Can other hardware effect this too?  I have a Intel X-25 SSD disk and use Marvel controllers for 6GB interal Western Digital 1TB drive.  Are those things all separate?
[14:20] <codemagician> *6GB SATA III
[14:20] <tjaalton> separate
[14:20] <bjsnider> my board also has marvell controllers
[14:21] <codemagician> does the pastbin output prove its a driver issue?
[14:23] <codemagician> http://pastebin.com/CKK6Zzed
[14:23] <codemagician> here is the full X log on the session that hung
[14:24] <codemagician> any suggestions or other things amiss would be welcome
[14:25] <codemagician> back in a moment, I'll reboot and try the non-accelerated gfx machine
[14:27] <codemagician> back, but can't say I noticed any difference so far
[14:28] <codemagician> tjaalton,  should I try running a particular type of application to check the acceleration is off?
[14:29] <tjaalton> dmesg | grep nouveau
[14:33] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: so, is it too late to get accel quirked off by default for the problematic nouveau chipsets for natty?
[14:33] <codemagician> BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-2.6.35-28-generic root=UUID=5acb5583-1369-4c00-b1b2-b059a2ad0fe5 ro nouveau.noaccel=1 quiet splash
[14:33] <codemagician> http://pastebin.com/zLuEL517
[14:34] <codemagician> (output from dmesg | grep nouveau )
[14:37] <codemagician> tjaalton, how does it look?
[14:38] <tjaalton> codemagician: like it should work
[14:38] <codemagician> tjaalton, ok... I use it. Usually it hangs my machine 2 times per day
[14:38] <tjaalton> mdeslaur: i guess it's not too late, but I'd have to ask.. apw?
[14:38] <codemagician> tjaalton, fingers crossed
[18:22] <bjsnider> ricotz, i''m not clear on smething. if i want to use all of gnome 3 in natty + the ppa after both are released stable, is that going to be possible? or is it not known yet?
[18:27] <kklimonda> bjsnider: what do you mean by possible?
[18:28] <bjsnider> right now it apparently doesn't work due to instability
[18:29] <kklimonda> yeah, it's not that stable but I think it's mostly an upstream problem.
[18:29] <bjsnider> i thought they said natty woudln't have everything that gnome 3 needs
[18:29] <kklimonda> we may not have everything updated, but the goal is to update as much as possible in the ppa
[18:30] <kklimonda> I do remember raof saying that we won't get something in X that gnome-shell requires, but it hasn't been yet released in upstream and he has no idea  why are g-s folks using it ;)
[18:31] <kklimonda> RAOF: btw, do you have any leads on nvidia making everything use tons of memory?
[18:39] <ricotz> bjsnider, hi, the gtk3 releated packages in natty arent used for the official release, and if you are using the gnome3 packages will break gnome2 desktop currently
[18:39] <ricotz> gnome3 ppa*
[18:40] <bjsnider> what about by the end of april?
[18:41] <ricotz> i am not sure if it is possible, probably not
[18:42] <bjsnider> so then what happens to my system if i fully install the gnome 3 ppa when it and natty are stable?
[18:43] <bjsnider> will it work in that situation if i choose to use only the gnome 3 desktop?
[18:43] <ricotz> yeah only using the gnome3 desktop should work and i hope it gets stable ;)
[18:44] <ricotz> but currently there are still some packages missing
[18:45] <ricotz> so you should be careful with testing if you need a stable system
[18:45] <ricotz> for me it is running with a usable stability (working around the problems)
[18:48] <ricotz> kklimonda, are you member of gnome3-team?
[18:49] <kklimonda> ricotz: not really, but I've been asking similar questions recently.
[18:49] <ricotz> kklimonda, ok ;)
[18:50] <kklimonda> I've tried working on it
[18:50] <kklimonda> was interested in updating some packages
[18:50] <kklimonda> but I can't use it ;/
[18:50] <kklimonda> something between gnome3 and the beta nvidia drivers make it much more unstable then it should be.
[18:50] <ricotz> what packages?
[18:51] <kklimonda> ricotz: eog, libseed and libpeas
[18:51] <ricotz> i am using nvidia blob with xorg-edgers ppa and gnome3 ppa
[18:51] <kklimonda> ricotz: i've tried to fix ftbfs.
[18:51] <kklimonda> ricotz: yeah, the new nvidia blob seems to work for some, just not for me ;)
[18:51] <ricotz> kklimonda, ah, ok, this is in progress
[18:51] <kklimonda> I can't even use compiz recently
[18:52] <ricotz> eog needs still some packaging fixes for introspection
[18:52] <bjsnider> ricotz, you don't sound confident that upstream is going to make gnome 3 stable
[18:52] <kklimonda> it does seem like a lot of work to make it stable at this point :)
[18:52] <kklimonda> ricotz: I'd love to help, I'll give it a shot after nvidia releases new drivers - maybe it will make it work better
[18:53] <ricotz> bjsnider, not really, it should get stable upstream, but updating gdm and gnome-session to their gtk3 builds would be some effort
[18:54] <ricotz> kklimonda, you are using 270.30? on what card?
[18:54] <kklimonda> ricotz: quadro 140M
[18:54] <kklimonda> (it's 8400M or maybe 8600M)
[18:55] <ricotz> ok, dont have problems here with a gtx460
[18:58] <bjsnider> maybe because your card is like a ferrari to his pinto?
[18:58] <kklimonda> :D
[18:58] <kklimonda> bjsnider: you've just made my day :P
[18:58] <bjsnider> ricotz, when you do a glxinfo does it say your opengl version is 4?
[19:00] <bjsnider> kklimonda, that was not an accurate analogy though, because your chip is at least workstation quality. it won't explode if you touch it, unlike a pinto
[19:00] <kklimonda> bjsnider: ahaha, that would be funnier if my chipset wasn't the one from the faulty serie and did not actually explode (or at least stop working) at some random date ;)
[19:01] <kklimonda> it's a damn time bomb
[19:03] <bjsnider> well, nvidia's had some engineering problems in the past
[19:07] <Sarvatt> kklimonda: my 8400m gs system died recently, first symptoms were that I couldn't use compiz with it because it would hang, then I had to use nouveau because the blob would always hang, then it stopped turning on completely :)
[19:07] <kklimonda> Sarvatt: it doesn't hang and rather crashes
[19:07] <kklimonda> Sarvatt: but yeah, I'm getting used to the idea that it's dying
[19:58] <ricotz> bjsnider, yeah, it says 4.1.0
[19:58] <bjsnider> cool
[20:18] <RAOF> kklimonda: Fedora are shipping ajax's pointer barrier stuff, which is what gnome-shell is using.  Leads for nvidia memory useage: the blob does something when it's loaded that dirties memory.  There's nothing more I can investigate without a decompiler ;).
[20:19] <bjsnider> RAOF, you mean with gnome 3 on nvidia memory usage would be huge?
[20:20] <RAOF> bjsnider: No.  The problem is that the blob causes anything that links to it to use a small but significant amount of non-sharable memory.  With cairo-gl, *anything* GTK based linked to libGL, so everything had increased memory usage.
[20:21] <RAOF> bjsnider: Unless gnome-shell requires GTK to link to GL you're not going to see the same problem.