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kirkland /o/16:57
hallynwho's on bat?17:01
zulhallyn: was it you last week?17:01
hallynno, two or three weeks ago17:01
zulwho did last week?17:01
* hallyn checks the blog17:02
RoAkSoAxyes \17:02
zuli think its Daviey this week17:02
DavieySorry, chaps... was on the phone... I'm back now.17:03
* hallyn tips his hat17:03
Davieytwo moments whilst i compose myself.17:03
MootBotMeeting started at 11:04. The chair is Daviey.17:04
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:04
DavieyHellow everyone, and thank you for coming.  Apologies for starting later than scheduled.17:04
kirklandpom poms, robbiew ?17:04
robbiewyou know it!17:04
Daviey[TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting17:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting17:04
DavieyDaviey to talk with wider docs team regarding translations (deferred, carry over)17:05
Daviey-- This is still carried over.17:05
DavieyDaviey to post another followup one euca-dhcp bug. (carry over)17:05
Daviey-- scheduled to talk with upstream today via phone.17:05
Daviey(and yesterday for that matter)17:05
DavieySpamapS to put his version of ubuntuserver-minutes in directions for writing minutes17:05
Daviey -- looks done17:05
Daviey[TOPIC] Natty Development17:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Natty Development17:06
=== jj-afk is now known as jjohansen
DavieySo, we are in Ubuntu Beta 1 hard freeze.17:06
DavieyHopefully the ISO building is starting to stabilise, and we should have a potential candidate soon (if not now)17:07
DavieyWe could do with some additional testing of these candidates..17:07
kirklandDaviey: fyi, the aubergine color got dropped from the beta1 debian-installer :-(17:07
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html17:07
kirklandDaviey: sort of inadvertent fallout of making it configurable17:07
zulhow come?17:08
Davieykirkland, that is a shame...17:08
kirklandDaviey: i'm trying to fix it now17:08
Davieykirkland, So that will land after beta 1 now?17:08
kirklandDaviey: yes, pray that the fix gets accepted for beta217:08
kirklandDaviey: cjwatson said that he's not rebuilding debian-installer for beta1 at this point (understandably)17:08
Davieykirkland, I hope so!  I liked the aubergine love.  It was in yesterdays ISO - when was it dropped?17:09
kirklandDaviey: debian-installer rebuilt yesterday, which used the updated newt configuration, where newt's palette is configurable17:09
kirklandDaviey: and that configuration did not propagate to the debian-installer bits17:10
DavieyI see, thanks kirkland - is there a new bug / WI that is tracking this?17:10
kirklandDaviey: i'm trying desparately to get it working17:10
Davieykirkland, rocking.17:10
kirklandDaviey: i honestly haven't had time to file a bug, focused on fixing it ASAP17:10
Davieykirkland, ok, sounds good.17:10
kirklandDaviey: but i thought i'd mention it here, thanks17:10
DavieyOkay.. regarding our burn down chart..17:10
DavieyAs we are in freeze now, any items that are in main/multiverse need to be adjusted to beta2 - or discussion if they should be dropped.17:11
DavieyRegarding release bugs... We do have a handful.. they look like they are making progress - so not sure we need to discuss them further here.17:12
DavieyDoes anyone else have any comments for Natty development?17:12
Davieymoving on17:12
Daviey[TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events17:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events17:12
DavieyDoesn't look like we have any new ones confirmed in the short term.17:13
Daviey[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)17:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)17:13
RoAkSoAxThis Saturday April 2nd. Texas Linux Fest. kirkland and I are presenting17:13
jamespageHmm well there is puppet camp at the end of next month17:13
RoAkSoAxDaviey: ^^17:13
DavieyRoAkSoAx, ah, thanks!17:13
zulOpenstack Summit next month17:14
DavieyYeah, i thought that was > short term. :)17:14
zulit is short term :)17:14
DavieyNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)17:14
Davieyhggdh, the floor is yours, sir17:15
Davieyhggdh, seems afk... we will come back17:15
Daviey[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)17:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)17:15
Davieysmb, Are you around?17:16
smbYes, a bit late but  I am here17:16
smosersmb, bug 740658 and bug 741224 have popped up in the last few days.17:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 740658 in linux-meta-ec2 (Ubuntu) "kernels compiled with"CONFIG_HAVE_UNSTABLE_SCHED_CLOCK=y" lead to weird clock drifts on some CPUs. This may up ending in DOS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74065817:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 741224 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "m1.large instances randomly freezing for 5-15 minutes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74122417:16
smbMostly being trying to bring lucid-ec2 into shape17:16
smoserboth with a fair amount of helpful information.17:16
* Daviey looks17:17
smoserjust wanted to make sure you'd read through them, one follows through to upstream thread https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/629361/17:17
smbI think I had been looking at them. But I cannot say for sure exactly how things were there17:18
Davieysmb / smoser: So the main issues with EC2 kernel is with Lucid, not Natty?17:18
smbI need to get back tehere again17:18
smbDaviey, There is one for natty afaik17:18
smoserDaviey, the issues are present in all releases.17:18
smbthe java not being installable on t1.micro17:18
smbBut other things tend to go quite a bit back17:19
Davieysmb, is java on t1.micro looking good for Natty?17:19
smbDaviey, no the other way round17:19
smbit is not looking good for natty17:19
smbbut I had not yet time to look back into that17:19
Davieysmb, ok, thanks17:20
Davieysmoser, anything else for EC2?17:20
smbThere is one set of patches turning up a lot which changes the way interrupts are handled17:20
* hggdh is back from a phone call17:20
smbunfortunately those are not really triviall to get back to Lucid (not to mention hardy)17:20
smoserboth t1.micro/java and those listed above are at least potentially bugs on all releases.  i fully trust smb, its just a matter of hours in the day, and as he suggests nothing is trivial17:21
smbBut at least natty should be fine in that respect17:21
Davieysmb, I'm not sure our users would be too concerned with the fix landing in Hardy tbh.17:21
smbDaviey, there has been asking17:21
smoserthere are some users who are interested in hardy fixes17:21
Davieysmb, I was trying to make your life easier. :)17:22
smbNothing is impossible for the one that not has to do it. :)17:22
zulhas there been an update kernel for hardy yet?17:22
smbAnyway those may go to Lucid17:22
smbBut then I still have to get that into there as well17:22
DavieyOkay... are there any pressing issues for non-ec2 kernels atm?17:23
smbzul, There has been no update to xen speciafically17:23
zulsmb: cool17:23
smbI am not sure whether there has not been other changes in between though17:23
smoserkernel related.... john johansen sent a mail to ubuntu-server mailing list17:24
smoserasking for input on -virtual kernel.17:24
smoserplease, if the -virtual kernel has affected you, please speak up there.17:24
smbzul, Actually, maybe you want to check whether you got the same amount of patches in your packatge17:24
* jjohansen was waiting to pitch it17:24
zulsmb: lets take it off line17:24
smbThere may have been something needing fix for a cve but I lost a bit track of time17:24
Davieyjjohansen, Do you want to speak?17:25
smbjjohansen, go17:25
smoserzul, fyi, hggdh has info on hardy kernel updates as well.17:25
jjohansenDaviey: not really, I was just going to do a one more thing.  The kernel team is looking for kernel input, please reply to the mail, or hunt me down17:25
jjohansenI think its been covered17:26
Davieysuper, thanks!17:26
DavieyIt's good to see there is not much concern with the tradional kernel for natty..17:26
* Daviey is happy17:26
DavieyThanks smb and jjohansen !17:26
Daviey[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)17:26
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)17:26
Davieyhggdh, floor is yours, sir!17:27
hggdhwe are busy on ISO testing; also still working on the Euca bug17:27
hggdhno news there yet17:27
hggdhsmoser: ec2 images ready for ISO testing?17:28
smoserhggdh, yes.17:28
* Daviey has been working with hggdh to try and resolve the euca bug.17:28
smoserjamespage, is working on this , we're attempting to test through jenkins with the work eh's done there.17:28
Davieyjamespage, Do you want to comment on the jenkins testing?17:29
jamespageso I executed a full set of tests this afternoon; its thrown up a couple of minor bugs with the testing framework which I will fix ASAP.17:30
jamespageResults here -> http://jenkins.qa.ubuntu-uk.org/view/natty-ec2/ if anyone wants to take a look17:30
Davieyjamespage / smoser: Is this expected to be the primary testing, or will traditional testing still be conducted for b1?17:30
hggdhjamespage: can we consider these results as the "official beta" results?17:30
smoserleaning torwards this being primary17:31
DavieyThat should be a good time saving!17:31
jamespageThey are against 2011032917:31
jamespageso we will need to run again17:31
jamespageSuggest I fix issues17:31
smoser(not really much time saving... the other tests were all automated as well)17:31
hggdhI *think* we now have the final ISO -- the .217:31
jamespageand they re-run once we think we have a good image for beta 117:32
Davieyjamespage, Are they triggered automatically?17:32
hggdhDaviey: yes indeed, the final, er, candidate17:32
jamespageNo - thats intentional as they cost $$ to execute.17:32
Davieyok, so smoser pings you to fire them?17:33
jamespageAt the moment they have to be submitted individually (which is a bit of a pain)17:33
jamespageYes - thats fine.17:33
DavieyAnything else for hggdh, or QA related?17:33
hggdh.. from me17:34
Davieyhggdh, super... thanks.. I think we'll be talking more this week. :)17:34
Davieymoving on...17:34
smoserwell, since we're there.17:34
smoserhold on17:34
Davieysmoser, go17:34
smoserso is there anything anyone knows about that should cause respin of 20110329 uec images ?17:34
smoser(built on taht date ~ 1:00 am UTC)17:35
smosermanifest http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/server/natty/current/natty-server-uec-amd64.manifest17:35
Davieysmoser, Have you already tested those?17:36
smoserthat is what jamespage ran a test on.17:36
Davieynothing of interest has changed AFAIK.17:37
Davieymoving on.17:38
Daviey[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team17:38
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team17:38
DavieyWe do have quite alot of docs to do before release.17:38
DavieyWe need to review the current documentation.17:38
Davieyand some people have WI for new docs.17:38
Daviey[ACTION] Please review the current documentation.17:39
MootBotACTION received:  Please review the current documentation.17:39
RoAkSoAxwhat about the inclusion of new documentation17:39
DavieyHopefully we'll be able to touch some docs before next meeting.. if we comment next meeting what we have done, that will help.17:39
DavieyRoAkSoAx, Yes, if the current documentation is weak in an area, it needs new documentation :)17:40
Daviey[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community17:40
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community17:40
RoAkSoAxDaviey: I mean completely new documentation that I'd like to include17:40
DavieyRoAkSoAx, Yes, is that on one of the WI's?17:41
RoAkSoAxDaviey: I would love to include Cluster Docs17:41
RoAkSoAxDaviey: which I have made available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClusterStack/Natty17:41
DavieyRoAkSoAx, That sounds like a good idea.. do you know how to submit it?17:42
RoAkSoAxDaviey: nope, that's why I was asking :)17:42
DavieyRoAkSoAx, Okay, I'll take the action of providing guidance to -server ml.17:43
RoAkSoAxcool ;)17:43
Daviey(I need to check with the docs team, anyway)17:43
Daviey[ACTION] Daviey to talk with docs team about new submissions.17:43
MootBotACTION received:  Daviey to talk with docs team about new submissions.17:43
Daviey[TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community17:44
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community17:44
DavieyIs there anything new here?17:44
Davieyany new contributors want to say hello? :)17:44
Daviey[TOPIC] Open Discussion17:45
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion17:45
DavieyAnyone have anything else to add?17:45
robbiewDaviey is the new Ubuntu Server Technical Lead17:46
DavieySTC. :)17:46
jamespage\o/ - congrats Daviey17:46
* Daviey blushes.17:46
Davieymoving on gracefully.17:47
Daviey[TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time17:47
Daviey    Tuesday, April 5 2011 16:00 UTC17:47
MootBotNew Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time17:47
* robbiew begins the delegations of time waisting work and meanless duties17:47
Davieyoh joy17:48
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:48.17:48
* tgardner waves17:58
* smb is here17:59
* ogasawara waves17:59
MootBotMeeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.18:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:00
bjf## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.18:00
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting18:00
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty18:00
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting18:00
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty18:00
bjf# Meeting Etiquette18:00
bjf# NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.18:00
bjf[TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)18:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)18:00
JFoRelease Meeting Bugs (6 bugs, 8 Blueprints)18:00
JFo==== Beta 1 Milestoned Bugs (59 across all packages (down 29)) ====18:00
JFo * 4 linux kernel bugs (no change)18:00
JFo * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)18:00
JFo * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)18:00
JFo==== Release Targeted Bugs (274 across all packages (up 1)) ====18:00
JFo * 22 linux kernel bugs (up 2)18:00
JFo * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)18:00
JFo * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)18:00
JFo==== Milestoned Features ====18:00
JFo * 7 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)18:00
JFo==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====18:01
JFo * 60 Linux Bugs (down 13)18:01
JFo==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====18:01
JFo * 94 Linux Bugs (no change)18:01
JFo==== Bugs with Patches Attached:84 (up 1) ====18:01
JFo * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]18:01
JFo * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]18:01
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)18:01
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling18:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)18:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling18:01
JFo* I am reviewing the items this week (had planned to do last week, but didn't get to it)18:01
JFoto determine what, if any, items need to be postponed or require further discussion at UDS. There18:01
JFoare several items that are relatively straightforward and simply need to have the time allotted18:01
JFofor them to be completed. I'll plan and implement that schedule for myself also this week.18:01
bjf[TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)18:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)18:02
ogasawaraBeta-1 is this Thursday, March 31.  Beta-1 will ship with the 2.6.38-7.39 kernel which is based on mainline v2.6.38.  Do not expect any further uploads of the kernel until after Beta.  In the mean time we've been queueing patches in the master-next branch including rebasing to the most recent stable update.  Also keep in mind that Kernel Freeze is April 14, ~2weeks away.  After kernel freeze we will transition t18:02
ogasawarao our SRU policy when submitting and accepting patches.  See:18:02
ogasawara[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelUpdates and18:02
ogasawara[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat18:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelUpdates and18:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat18:02
ogasawaraI'd like to also note that Kernel Freeze is also the same date as Beta 2.  Any uploads beyond that would likely have to be of the kitten killing nature.18:02
bjf[TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)18:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)18:03
sconklin|| We are extending the verification phase of this kernel cycle to two weeks in order to resync with master18:03
sconklin|| Natty interlock schedule.18:03
sconklin|| Due to a shortage of testing resources and testing required for the upcoming Natty release, there will18:03
sconklin|| not be a normal two-week kernel release cadence for the next few weeks. The schedule is as follows:18:03
sconklin|| kernel  (maverick, lucid) -> proposed  3/2518:03
sconklin|| verification in progress this week18:03
sconklin|| hw cert/qa   - 4/1-4/718:03
sconklin|| kernel (maveric, lucid) -> update 4/718:03
sconklin|| kernel ( maverick, lucid?)-> proposed 4/2218:03
sconklin|| verification 4/25-4/2918:03
sconklin|| hw cert/qa - 4/29 - 5/518:03
sconklin|| kernel (maverick, lucid? ) to update 5/518:03
sconklin|| * We will complete verification (or revert of patches) by this Friday for the current kernels.18:03
sconklin|| * We will have no uploads on the 8th of April, effectively skipping one of the two week18:03
sconklin||   cycles that we have been on.18:03
sconklin|| * We will upload Maverick and Lucid to -proposed on Friday, April 2218:03
sconklin|| We still have not found the root cause of a build failure for the hppa architecture for the Hardy18:03
sconklin|| linux-backports-modules package. This must be understood and resolved before we can release the18:03
sconklin|| Hardy kernel packages, so if it is not resolved by the end of this week we will have to delay18:03
sconklin|| the testing phase for Hardy until we understand it.18:03
* tgardner is working on it...18:04
bjf[TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)18:04
sconklin|| Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||18:04
sconklin||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||18:04
sconklin|| dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-57.94         || 2.6.15-57.95         ||    0 ||        0 ||18:04
sconklin||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||18:04
sconklin|| hardy    linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24   ||                      ||       ||    0 ||        0 ||18:04
sconklin|| ---      linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24       || 2.6.24-28.47         || 2.6.24-29.49         ||    0 ||        0 ||18:04
sconklin|| ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.24    || 2.6.24-28.37         || 2.6.24-29.39         ||    0 ||        0 ||18:04
sconklin|| ---      linux-meta                        ||         ||         ||    0 ||        0 ||18:04
sconklin|| ---      linux                             || 2.6.24-28.86         || 2.6.24-29.88         ||    3 ||        3 ||18:04
sconklin||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||18:04
sconklin|| karmic   linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-308.28        || 2.6.31-308.29        ||    1 ||        1 ||18:04
sconklin|| ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-23.74         || 2.6.31-23.75         ||    1 ||        1 ||18:05
sconklin||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||18:05
sconklin|| lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-315.28        ||    5 ||        4 ||18:05
sconklin|| ---      linux-ports-meta                  ||         ||         ||    0 ||        0 ||18:05
sconklin|| ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  ||         ||         ||    0 ||        0 ||18:05
sconklin|| ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       12 ||18:05
sconklin|| ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-30.29         || 2.6.32-31.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||18:05
sconklin|| ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.4               || 1.34.7               ||    1 ||        1 ||18:05
sconklin|| ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-30.59         || 2.6.32-31.60         ||    5 ||        4 ||18:05
sconklin|| ---      linux-meta                        ||         ||         ||    0 ||        0 ||18:05
sconklin|| ---      linux-meta-ec2                    ||        ||        ||    0 ||        0 ||18:05
sconklin||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||18:05
sconklin|| maverick linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-28.19         || 2.6.35-28.20         ||    0 ||        0 ||18:05
sconklin|| ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-28.49         || 2.6.35-28.50         ||    5 ||        4 ||18:05
sconklin||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||18:05
sconklinhttp://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html has ner-live version information18:05
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html has ner-live version information18:05
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)18:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)18:06
JFoIncoming Bugs18:06
JFo 453 Natty Bugs (up 94)18:06
JFo 1238 Maverick Bugs (up 6)18:06
JFo 1053 Lucid Bugs (up 8)18:06
JFoCurrent regression stats (broken down by release):18:06
JFo==== regression-update ====18:06
JFo  * 42 maverick bugs (no change)18:06
JFo  * 76 lucid bugs (up 1)18:06
JFo  * 7 karmic bugs (no change)18:06
JFo  * 0 hardy bugs (no change)18:06
JFo==== regression-release ====18:06
JFo  * 217 natty bugs (up 55)18:06
JFo  * 239 maverick bugs (down 3)18:06
JFo  * 222 lucid bugs (up 1)18:06
JFo  * 38 karmic bugs (no change)18:06
JFo  * 2 hardy bugs (no change)18:06
JFo==== regression-proposed ====18:06
JFo  * 10 natty bugs (up 2)18:06
JFo  * 0 maverick bugs (no change)18:06
JFo  * 0 lucid bugs (no change)18:06
JFo  * 0 karmic bug (no change)18:06
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)18:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)18:07
JFonothing to report on until next week.18:07
bjf[TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)18:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)18:07
JFoAnother pretty slow week for triage.18:07
bjf[TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)18:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)18:07
bjfthanks everyone18:08
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:08.18:08
JFothanks bjf18:08
sforsheethanks bjf18:08
* stgraber waves18:58
faganmy first meeting in a month18:58
stgrabernot that we actually had many others ;)19:00
* wendar waves19:00
stgraberlast one we were only two attending19:00
faganwell I had tests19:00
stgraberI guess we might need to restaff the ARB19:00
faganand now a job :)19:00
stgraberas pretty much everyone is busy with a lot of other things and we aren't that many on the board19:01
faganwell im good to go from here on in19:01
wendaryes, UDS should be good for that19:01
faganwell id be looking to continue on the board19:01
fagansince now I have loads of time19:01
stgrabercool !19:01
stgraberbtw, I just uploaded "news"19:01
stgraberit got approved a while ago. We've been waiting for IS for a few weeks to get the screenshots uploaded19:02
faganmaco: yep19:02
stgraberthen I noticed a few packaging mistakes that I asked to be fixed before uploading19:02
macofagan: ENOPARSE19:02
faganmaco: ??19:02
macooh wait i get it now19:02
stgraberthere was just a really small packaging issue remaining but nothing that'd be a problem for the upload, so it should now be on extras.ubuntu.com soon enough19:03
macoapplication review board19:03
ajmitchmaco: the meeting currently in progress :P19:03
stgrabermaco: app review board19:03
faganmaco: hehe19:03
wendarmaco: yes :)19:03
* ajmitch is here for a short time before having to run to work19:03
MootBotMeeting started at 13:03. The chair is wendar.19:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:03
wendar[TOPIC] Review action items19:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Review action items19:03
wendar[LINK] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda19:04
MootBotLINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda19:04
wendarsome of these we just need to clear out now19:04
wendarlike, conventions for tarballs?19:05
wendarany problems with deleting it?19:05
faganim good with that19:06
wendarwill do19:06
wendardaily-journal I found out about sideways, when we started getting failure reports on it from Natty19:06
ajmitchit should go, I think19:06
wendarit was added in Maverick as the first test app for extras19:06
faganyeah it was19:07
wendarajmitch: agreed19:07
wendarbut, it was apparently copied over to Natty when the Natty archive was created19:07
ajmitchI didn't think it was meant to be used by people, I think we can delete it from the PPA?19:07
wendarso, needs to be removed from natty too19:07
faganwendar: probably19:07
ajmitchhowever, we have to check on what deleting it from the PPA will do to extras.ubuntu.com19:07
wendardoes someone want to take on that task?19:08
* fagan wouldnt know who to ask 19:08
wendarfagan: daily-journal was already removed from maverick?19:08
faganwendar: nope19:08
ajmitchprobably start with asking mvo, he might at least know who else to talk to19:09
* wendar looks at stgraber, for expertise in removing things from archive19:09
ScottKIt's probably worth a soyuz bug to now forward copy extras.ubuntu.com when a new release is created.19:09
ScottKajmitch: I'd ask wgrant.19:09
wendarScottK: yes, definitely worth that19:09
ajmitchScottK: right19:09
faganso who wants to go do that19:10
* ajmitch can ask him about it19:10
stgraberwendar: I'd think removing it from our PPA and waiting 24h should do the trick. It won't remove it from users' machine though19:10
wendarthanks, ajmitch!19:10
wendarstgraber: I doubt many users have it installed19:11
wendarstgraber: this guy installed it looking for something entirely different19:11
stgraberif we want to remove it, we'd need to upload an empty package or something, so I guess just removing it should be fine for now19:11
faganwell maybe removing it from 11.04 but not maverick just to be sure?19:11
stgraberhmm, I only see it for natty19:12
faganI dont think it does any harm by just sitting in the archive19:12
faganoh then its ok if we remove it19:12
stgrabermvo: ping19:12
stgrabermvo: the package description indicates that it's there for software-center testing19:13
stgrabermvo: and will be removed before release19:13
stgrabercan we consider "before release" as == "now" ?19:13
faganI think so19:14
stgraberand maybe find another way of testing extras.ubuntu.com in the future, even if that's to send an actual app through the review process19:14
ScottKI think remote removing installed applications from user machines without a very strong reason is a very good idea.19:14
ScottK... is not a ...19:14
faganwell I think its ok for testing in dev releases19:14
ajmitchScottK: I don't think we want to do that19:15
faganid say it doesnt cause any harm19:15
stgraberScottK: agreed19:15
stgraberremoving from PPA now19:15
ScottK"Canonical remote deleting apps, just like Apple" <-- slashdot.19:15
ScottKDon't need that.19:15
wendarstgraber: thanks19:16
stgraberScottK: yeah, the remote removal stuff was discussed at UDS for cases where there is a serious security vulnerability and upstream doesn't provide a fix in a reasonable delay (and we can't find an ARB member willing to fix it)19:16
* fagan remembers that 19:17
ScottKYep.  That's a bit different than 'oops, it shouldn't have been there and we're getting bug reports now'.19:17
faganI dont think thats on a wiki somewhere19:17
wendarfagan: not yet19:17
stgraberfagan: it's probably on gobby, maybe on LP but probably not on the wiki ;)19:17
ajmitchstgraber: the usual breakdown in communications then19:18
faganso next?19:19
wendarthe last action item from previous meetings is the submission guide on the wiki19:19
wendarwhich is a work in progress19:19
wendar(good place to add notes on possible actions for security flaws)19:19
wendaris it worth keeping as an action item for next time19:19
wendaras a reminder?19:19
faganwendar: id love to spec a meeting to get an api for app submission going19:19
faganfor the UDS19:19
wendaryes, good idea19:20
wendarwe may be able to piggyback on some existing code, which would be good19:20
faganyeah that would be cool19:20
* ajmitch would like to have had reviewing going smoothly before worrying about that19:20
wendarI'll tag that as an action item19:20
wendarajmitch: well, we had one that went like clockwork19:20
wendarthen it hung for over a month waiting for screenshots19:21
faganajmitch: well id say it would have to be there before the LTS release19:21
faganand the review process would be sorted by then anyway19:21
wendarso, technology is getting in the way of the process19:21
wendarnext, proposal reviews...19:22
faganI just think it would be good to at least talk about anyway19:22
wendarthere's been some work on the "developer console" website that was discussed at last UDS19:24
wendarjust a start, but it has potential for our use19:24
faganI dont remember that19:24
wendarhave to poke around and find the blueprint19:24
mvostgraber: sorry, missed the ping. indeed, just for testing we should delete it soonish19:26
* fagan has access to canonical wiki now so can actually see that19:26
faganthe wiki link I mean19:26
wendarhah, no reason it should be private19:27
wendar(and actually, the wiki is dead now anyway)19:27
faganwendar: well the u1 team uses it a bit19:27
wendaron to proposals?19:28
stgrabermvo: ok, I removed it 10min ago19:28
faganwendar: I havent looked into the app that im assigned to19:29
faganhas any one else followed up?19:29
wendar[TOPIC] Proposal Review - 4dtris (fagan)19:29
wendar[LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board/+bug/64444319:29
MootBotNew Topic:  Proposal Review - 4dtris (fagan)19:29
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board/+bug/64444319:29
ubottuUbuntu bug 644443 in Ubuntu Application Review Board "Application Review Request: Basenji 0.7.1" [Undecided,Won't fix]19:29
stgraberI only had one app assigned to me IIRC and was waiting for a new upstream release19:30
faganYeah I havent looked at 4dtris19:30
wendarfagan: looks like not yet19:30
faganI poked the code a little but didnt get to look down enough to give a review19:31
stgraberI just marked pytask as incomplete until we get a new upstream release19:31
wendarstgraber: good19:31
* ajmitch was waiting for upstream to look at the packaging changes in a branch for simple-stopwatch, and had taken a look at the code of schedio19:32
stgraberhmm, apparently we don't have auto-expiry turned on for ubuntu-app-review-board so we'll have to manually expire them :)19:32
ajmitchto be generous, schedio will take some work :)19:32
faganstgraber: well that will only be needed if we had an API and a lot of reviews in the queue19:33
wendarstgraber: given our current speed, that's probably good19:33
wendarIIRC, SIR was ready to go, just waiting for screenshots19:33
faganwasnt that already given the ok?19:34
* fagan cant remember 19:34
wendaryes it was approved19:34
stgraberwendar: there's screenshots attached, it needs to be put in a branch and merged into the screenshot branch19:34
faganah thats ok19:34
wendaroh, it also needs the custom metadata fields19:34
ajmitchwhat sort of size limit would you put on something for code review?19:34
faganajmitch: I think thats subjective19:35
wendarstgraber: yes, I offered the developer to do the branch and proposal for merge, then never got to it19:35
stgraberajmitch: I wouldn't give a size limit, if it feels too big/complex to you, then it's probably worth rejecting19:35
faganyou could have 5000 lines of really basic code or 1000 of the most complicated code19:35
ajmitchfagan: right, I'm just going for generalities, as I look at schedio19:35
faganajmitch: id say more than 2000 is my limit19:36
faganid be a little bit afraid of missing something important in more than that19:36
ajmitchthis one rocks in at 15k, mostly repetitive gtk+ coding, but some interesting stuff as well :)19:37
faganajmitch: if its 15k but repeating it could be acceptable19:37
ajmitchI'd reject it out of hand just looking at it, just don't know the polite way to do so :)19:38
faganajmitch: just say there is a complexity restriction19:38
wendarthat it looks more appropriate to the full review process19:38
faganthat you are sorry but the application is just too bad for the app review process19:38
faganbut that they should go to the repo with it19:38
* ajmitch has to leave in a couple of minutes, anyway19:39
wendarthe last two are Tibetsi and harmonySEQ19:40
wendarnew proposals with no shepherds yet19:40
wendarI can take one, now that news is launched19:41
* fagan has one19:41
wendarwill we get any more apps through the process before Natty is released?19:42
faganI dont think we will19:42
stgraberjust looking at tibesti, there seems to be quite a few alternatives in the archive doing a very similar job19:42
faganthe next meeting is the week before release19:42
* ajmitch has to run now, will read log later19:43
faganlater ajmitch19:43
wendarthen we should switch to reviewing for entry into Natty (after release)19:44
faganid say so19:44
faganI dont know really id love to talk about this at the UDS19:44
stgraberconsidering how long it takes to get an app in the repository, it might be worth asking the new ones if they want to apply for 10.10 or 11.0419:44
wendarespecially the fact that the current scheme has us re-reviewing all the apps each time19:45
faganI think we should stick to the LTS release after the next LTS is released19:45
wendarnow we've only got 219:45
wendarbut next cycle, we might have 10 or so19:45
wendarand the cycle after that,...19:45
faganand hop between LTS to LTS19:45
wendarfagan: that doesn't quite fit with the idea of getting apps on "the current release"19:46
wendaror at least, it's only half the story19:46
stgraberwendar: don't they have to re-apply for that ? I'm guessing part of the apps will be in the archive or superseded by something else. So it'll definitely get worse with time, but not necessarily a lot worse.19:46
faganwendar: well the LTS is supposed to be the target of of apps that are going to get use for a long time19:46
wendarstgraber: they do have to reapply, which means we have to re-review19:46
faganand id say that app developers would like to have their app in the repo for the longest time19:46
wendarstgraber: it should be easier than the first review, if there were no changes, though19:47
stgraberwendar: reviewing a new version is just a matter of checking the delta, so it should go a lot faster at least.19:47
faganso if it goes to the LTS release and then gets mirrored to the normal releases (where possible) it would work19:47
wendarfagan: well, the idea was that ARB apps wouldn't be used for a long time... but, probably something to talk about at UDS19:48
fagantoo bad im not traveling again19:48
wendarin general, UDS seems like a good time to take stock of what we've done so far19:48
wendarfagan: we'll get you in on IRC19:49
faganwendar: yeah id love if I could go on mumble or something instead19:49
faganbut I suppose IRC would be ok19:49
wendarfagan: yeah, I think they had that set up last time too19:49
stgraberwe can quite easily arrange using skype/mumble if listening to the stream + IRC isn't working well enough19:50
wendarbut, we should talk on the mailing list ahead of time too19:50
faganyeah well I can get stuff across by talking a lot easier than IRC19:50
faganand its sometimes easy to miss stuff on IRC when talking in the room19:51
fagananyway any more reviews?19:51
wendarthat's all19:52
fagangood meeting19:52
wendarwho wants to chair next time?19:52
faganI can do it19:52
wendargreat, thanks!19:52
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:53.19:53
faganoh the mootbot got an update19:53
* fagan hasnt seenthat19:53
fagan*seen that19:53
sorenHow can you tell?19:59
sorenfagan: ^19:59
fagansoren: the time the meeting finished on19:59
faganI havent seen the MootBot in so long19:59
sorenIt's the same isn't it? UTC-5?19:59
sorenA remarkably useless default, by the way.20:00
stgraberyeah, US central time seems quite weird ;) I'd have been fine with US eastern or UTC ...20:00
faganUTC would be the most useful20:01
sorenYeah. I think I filed a bug about that years ago..20:01
faganyears ago?20:01
ubottuUbuntu bug 138905 in Mootbot "Time is way off" [Undecided,Confirmed]20:01
faganI didnt even think the bot did that so it doing that for years is pretty funny20:02
soren3½ years ago.20:02
fagansoren: how did you get the half there20:03
* fagan doesnt have that on his keyboard20:03
micahgha ha, I always thought it was local to the user, then again, I'm in its timezone20:03
sorenGet a new keyboard.20:03
fagandidnt mean to spam :)20:04
highvoltageyes you did I can see it on your face!20:04
faganhighvoltage: your behind me arent you :P20:05
stgraberfagan: Nope, I'm behind him and he only has his laptop in front of him :)20:07
faganstgraber: hehe20:08
highvoltageomg he is really20:08
* ajmitch wonders what odd meeting this is :P20:12
faganajmitch: yeah but nice20:12
vishCanadian Cabal!20:18
vishhighvoltage and stgraber20:19
faganvish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCypAqZI9Yc20:20
faganI meant eh as in canada eh20:20
highvoltagehi vish20:36
=== Thermi is now known as thermi

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