[00:01] <Hazmaster> exit
[00:01] <Hazmaster> hmm, its going to take some time getting use to irssi i see
[00:22] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] UDS Sponsorship Deadline Tomorrow! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/03/28/uds-sponsorship-deadline-tomorrow/
[00:30] <popey> gord: open ccsm, go to window decorator, disable window decoration, it kills unity
[00:30] <popey> i have to have an ssh session option to unity --reset
[00:31] <popey> directhex: what has boycott boy chosen then after his bt boycott?
[00:32] <ali1234> bt as in british telecom?
[00:32] <popey> yes
[00:32] <popey> i see directhex discussing it on twitter
[00:32] <ali1234> a fine choice
[00:32] <directhex> popey, he hasn't! he signed an 18 month contract up front, and NOW is complaining they're an evil monopoly and should be boycotted
[00:33] <HazRPG> heh I boycotted BT for their interwebs for years
[00:33] <ali1234> not really a monopoly any more... they are evil though
[00:34] <directhex> ali1234, not legally a monopoly in a Market 3 area!
[00:34] <directhex> ali1234, not on an exchange with 8 LLU providers, plus virgin, plus all 5 mobile networks!
[00:34] <ali1234> yeah, unbundling and all that
[03:21] <HazRPG> \o
[03:43] <shauno> o/
[03:43] <HazRPG> shauno: \o/
[03:52] <HazRPG> shauno: IPv6 hates me :(
[03:54] <shauno> I thought you were getting somewhere yesterday?  what'd you break?
[03:56] <HazRPG> it worked as a thing on one computer
[03:56] <HazRPG> radvd
[03:56] <HazRPG> (raaaaaaDVD as I'm calling it)
[03:56] <HazRPG> doesn't!
[05:36] <HazRPG> shauno: wow... so we're all compiled back together again (server splits)
[05:53] <kaushal> hi
[05:53] <kaushal> popey: hi
[05:53] <HazRPG> hi
[05:53] <kaushal> is there a way to know someone has installed squid-deb-proxy server inside LAN ?
[05:54] <kaushal> I am still facing the issue
[05:54] <kaushal> inside the office
[05:55] <kaushal> HazRPG: hi
[05:55] <HazRPG> erm
[05:55] <HazRPG> I'm not sure about that one dude
[05:55] <kaushal> ok
[05:56] <kaushal> I have shutdown squid-deb-proxy on server
[05:56] <HazRPG> oh, is this the updating problem?
[05:56] <kaushal> yes
[05:56] <HazRPG> could you pastebin it again please?
[05:56] <kaushal> sure
[05:56] <HazRPG> :)
[05:58] <kaushal> HazRPG: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586729/
[05:58] <HazRPG> thanks
[05:58] <kaushal> np
[05:59] <HazRPG> can ya go through it quickly what you/people have done/suggested so far? (so that im not just repeating something that someone else has already tried)
[05:59] <kaushal> where ?
[05:59] <HazRPG> hmm, reading it like that sounds wrong
[06:00] <HazRPG> I mean what you have tried so far?
[06:00] <kaushal> when i am out of office network it worked
[06:00] <HazRPG> and what has people suggested?
[06:00] <kaushal> no one has suggested anything
[06:00] <HazRPG> ah
[06:00] <kaushal> hence the question :)
[06:01] <HazRPG> :P
[06:01] <HazRPG> right, lemmie see
[06:03] <HazRPG> im guessing from all the amd64 references it's a 64-bit machine install
[06:03] <HazRPG> and that its maverick (10.10)
[06:04] <kaushal> yes
[06:05] <HazRPG> right, erm... does this command fail: ping in.archive.ubuntu.com -c 5
[06:06] <HazRPG> also, why is it using in.archive.ubuntu.com anyways? I thought archive.ubuntu.com was the default :S
[06:08] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586730/
[06:08] <kaushal> ok
[06:09] <HazRPG> hmm, so its not having trouble reaching the domain...
[06:09] <kaushal> HazRPG: is there a way to remove in ?
[06:10] <kaushal> I mean "in"
[06:10] <kaushal> I tried :%s/^//.in//g
[06:11] <HazRPG> sure... gui way to do it is via update manager
[06:11] <HazRPG> click settings->Ubuntu Software tab-> change the download drop-down to a different server
[06:12] <kaushal> ok
[06:14] <HazRPG> either pick "main server" if it isn't already... or pick "other..." and select one closer to you
[06:15] <HazRPG> then try and see if it'll update then
[06:20] <kaushal> HazRPG: still the same
[06:21] <HazRPG> hmm
[06:22] <HazRPG> wait, you said it updates fine outside of the office?
[06:22] <kaushal> yes
[06:23] <kaushal> I am suspecting the squid-deb-proxy server
[06:23] <kaushal> but someone inside our office might have installed it
[06:23] <kaushal> instead of just installing squid-deb-proxy-client
[06:26] <kaushal> HazRPG: is there a way to find ?
[06:27] <HazRPG> looking into it now for ya dude
[06:28] <shauno> what does the command "avahi-browse -kprt _apt_proxy._tcp" return?
[06:28] <kaushal> ok
[06:31] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586732/
[06:32] <shauno> that 3rd line is what's getting you; deb-squid-proxy is running on 172.26.0.23
[06:34] <shauno> I've a funny feeling you need to change allowed-networks-src.conf on the machine that's running the proxy
[06:35] <shauno> actually, no, nm; 172.26.x.x fits that
[06:36] <shauno> but either way, that proxy either needs to work, or go away :)
[06:38] <HazRPG> sorry, I'm still messing with ipv6 stuff on this end
[06:39] <HazRPG> shauno: guessing your trying your wit at it now? (your probably the better man for the job in all honesty)
[06:41] <shauno> HazRPG: was just trying to figure out if the apt-proxy really is running or not.  avahi thinks it is, apparently
[06:43] <shauno> I'd be interested to try: http_proxy=http://172.26.0.23:8000 wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2
[06:44] <shauno> it'll try to grab the package list via the same proxy apt is trying to use, but should give you a more descriptive failure message
[06:45] <shauno> (all apt's telling you is that the reply is 45 bytes and makes no sense to apt)
[06:54] <kaushal> shauno: http_proxy=http://172.26.0.23:8000 ?
[06:56] <kaushal> shauno: not sure i understand that
[06:56] <kaushal> when i do wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2
[06:56] <kaushal> it works fine
[06:59] <shauno> if you put it before the wget command, wget will try to use that proxy
[06:59] <kaushal> ok
[07:00] <kaushal> it works fine
[07:00] <shauno> could you pastebin what wget output when it did so?
[07:00] <kaushal> sure
[07:01] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586740/
[07:01] <shauno> (want to check it is going via the proxy, and it isn't getting a 45byte file)
[07:01] <shauno> Packages.bz2' saved [45/45]  <= 45 bytes again
[07:02] <kaushal> ok
[07:02] <shauno> could you 'cat Packages.bz2' ?  (don't worry, I strongly suspect it's not going to be bzip'd binary)
[07:02] <kaushal> sure
It works!</h1></body></html>
[07:02] <shauno> :(  it lies!
[07:03] <MartijnVdS> that's a vhost problem
[07:03] <MartijnVdS> usually
[07:04] <kaushal> so any way to fix it ?
[07:05] <AlanBell> wrong proxy port?
[07:06] <shauno> 8000's what avahi is claiming
[07:06] <shauno> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586732/  is where apt is getting the proxy details from
[07:07] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586741/
[07:07] <shauno> (unless I'm reading http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~squid-deb-proxy-developers/squid-deb-proxy/trunk/view/head:/apt-avahi-discover  very wrong)
[07:09] <kaushal> shauno: shall i pastebin the /etc/squid-deb-proxy/squid-deb-proxy.conf ?
[07:09] <shauno> can't hurt; have you changed it from the packaged version?
[07:12] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586745/
[07:12] <kaushal> shauno: nope
[07:13] <AlanBell> kaushal: so where do you have an unconfigured apache sitting about?
[07:13] <AlanBell> localhost? the proxy?
[07:16] <kaushal> AlanBell: please give me a moment
[07:21] <popey> morning all
[07:22] <shauno> o/
[07:23] <popey> sounds like squid isnt running because there is already an apache running on 8000 on that box
[07:24] <shauno> does squid log requests somewhere?
[07:25] <popey> yes
[07:25] <shauno> so we could check squid's log to see if http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586740/ did hit it
[07:26] <shauno> (I'm curious if he is hitting squid, and squid is fetching 'It works' from the wrong place; or if he's hitting a webserver instead of squid)
[07:27] <popey>  /var/log/squid or /var/log/squid-deb-proxy
[07:28] <shauno> I'm also quickly reaching the limit of how many times I can say 'squid' before it ceases to seem like a real word.
[07:29] <AlanBell> kaushal: what does http://172.26.0.23:8000 in a browser look like (and for anyone else, what is squid supposed to look like?)
[07:29] <AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer
[07:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning AlanBell
[07:30] <popey> i think we have lost him
[07:31] <ging> emm calamari
[07:32] <popey> yummy
[07:32] <ging> for breakfast
[07:34] <ging> bet they eat it somewhere
[07:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: AlanBell czajkowski interesting Digital Surrey evening in April... http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1494087857/
[07:39] <kaushal> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586747/
[07:42] <kaushal> popey: also shall i pastebin the access.log under /var/log/squid-deb-proxy
[07:42] <kaushal> i get hits
[07:42] <kaushal> dont know why its not working
[07:43] <popey> kaushal: does /etc/squid-deb-proxy/allowed-networks-src.conf look sane for your network?
[07:43] <popey> also mirror-dstdomain.acl in that same directory
[07:45] <kaushal> yes
[07:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, did AlanBell fall of the internet again?
[07:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/of/off
[07:46]  * AlanBell checks
[07:46] <popey> http://pastebin.com/abg958sD is mine
[07:46] <AlanBell> nope, don't think I did
[07:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[07:46]  * popey registers for that event
[07:47]  * AlanBell spots "there will be cake" and registers
[07:48] <AlanBell> ooh I might have been on Radio 5 live this morning
[07:48] <AlanBell> (not live)
[07:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> How many more Alans could register in succession? http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1494087857/
[07:49] <popey> :)
[07:50] <awilkins> Hell is other peoples code
[07:50] <kaushal> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586751/
[07:50] <popey> morning awilkins
[07:51] <awilkins> Morning.
[07:51] <Myrtti> Would be interesting to know what is the volume of human sinuses
[07:51] <popey> kaushal: have you installed squid-deb-proxy-client on your client end?
[07:52] <awilkins> I can pack three metres of paraffin soaked ribbon gauze into each nostril - and that doesnt inculde sinuses
[07:52] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586752/
[07:52] <popey> kaushal: what does /usr/share/squid-deb-proxy-client/apt-avahi-discover contain on the client?
[07:53] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586755/
[07:54] <daubers> Morning
[07:55] <popey> kaushal: run that file
[07:55] <popey>  /usr/share/squid-deb-proxy-client/apt-avahi-discover
[07:55] <popey> you should get one line back
[07:55] <popey> http://:/
[07:55] <popey> or
[07:55] <popey> http://10.10.10.124:8000/
[07:55] <popey> something like the above
[07:56] <kaushal> http://172.26.0.23:8000/
[07:56] <popey> great
[07:56] <popey> so avahi is working
[07:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Not sure if you still use drobo but might be interesting: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2011/03/drobo-review-1.ars
[07:56] <popey> so what happens if (on that same box) you do "sudo apt-get update"
[07:57] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i only use my drobo to backup my macbook pro.
[07:57] <popey> isolating the evil
[07:57] <kaushal> popey: are you talking about 172.26.0.23 ?
[07:57] <popey> kaushal: i am talking about the client
[07:57] <AlanBell> heh
[07:57] <kaushal> ok
[07:57] <popey> run "sudo apt-get update" on the client
[07:57] <popey> not the server
[07:57] <kaushal> ok
[07:57] <kaushal> its the same
[07:57] <popey> same in what way?
[07:57] <popey> pastebin?
[07:57] <kaushal> sure
[07:58] <daubers> Hmm.. how can you ninja theme a blog post without it ending up sounding racist
[07:58] <kaushal> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586763/
[07:59] <shauno> daubers: gratuitous use of silence.
[08:00] <daubers> shauno: Not very good at getting you point across though :(
[08:00] <awilkins> Do it in the style of like, totally flipping out and uppercutting a kid?
[08:00] <shauno> ninjas would disagree.  getting the 'point' across without making a noise is the whole point ;)
[08:01] <awilkins> Or doing the dangle-a-thread-and-pour-poison-syrup-down-it thing.
[08:02] <shauno> personally, it'd either be in the third person, so you're describing what can't be seen/heard.  or just go full on Banzai and suffer the fallout :D
[08:02] <shauno> (actually, fallout may be a poor choice of words currently.  'consequences' I guess)
[08:03] <popey> kaushal: have you pastebinned the access.log from /var/log/squid-deb-proxy/ ?
[08:03] <popey> I cant see it
[08:03] <awilkins> Fallout... And they are holding back Simpsons episodes with nuclear power disaster references....
[08:03] <kaushal> popey: nope
[08:03] <kaushal> let me pastebin it
[08:12] <kaushal> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/586765/
[08:14] <popey> kaushal: whats the IP of your client?
[08:18] <kaushal> 172.26.1.29
[08:21] <popey> kaushal: is there an apache running on the server?
[08:21] <kaushal> popey: please give me a moment
[08:21] <kaushal> nope
[08:23] <popey> i dont know where "It Works" is coming from
[08:24] <shauno> is it normal for all those log entries to be marked text/html? most the URIs they claim to be hitting are application/x-bzip2
[08:25]  * popey checks his
[08:26] <popey> http://pastebin.com/5zS9t9j6
[08:27] <popey> thats my acces_log
[08:28] <popey> well, a bit of it
[08:28] <shauno> yours works fine I assume?
[08:28] <popey> yes
[08:28] <shauno> you're getting a load of TCP_REFRESH_HIT/304
[08:29] <shauno> 304 is Not Modified, which makes total sense
[08:29] <shauno> his are all 200's .. http 'ok'
[08:30] <shauno> and all text/html, where yours look accurate (text for translations, app/bzip for Packages.bz2, nadda where no changes were returned)
[08:30] <shauno> there's not another proxy between apt-proxy and the destination is there?
[08:31] <popey> kaushal: you haven't installed squid-deb-proxy-client on the server have you?
[08:31] <shauno> (eg, apt->deb-squid-proxy->mystery meat->archive.ubuntu)
[08:32] <hoover> morning all
[08:33] <shauno> deb-proxy shouldn't hit itself, but there is a second squid instance running in  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586747/  which could be a concern
[08:34] <popey> maybe some iptables trying to transparently proxy?
[08:34] <popey> kaushal: have you done anything with iptables on this box (the server)
[08:36]  * popey tickles czajkowski with http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1494087857/
[08:39] <DJones> Morning all
[08:40] <kaushal> popey: please give me a moment
[08:41] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/586772/
[08:41] <DJones> popey: What was the website you've previously recommended for the cheaper thinkpads
[08:42] <popey> looks like they have shutdown
[08:43] <DJones> Ah well, never mind, I'll keep looking for a laptop then
[08:43] <popey> kaushal: remove squid-deb-proxy-client from the server, it should not be installed
[08:44] <popey> kaushal: also, see my other questions about iptables and apache?
[08:44] <shauno> I can't figure out why it's giving the right IP for archive., but hitting something else.  most curious
[08:44] <popey> i suspect iptables
[08:44] <AlanBell> unless the it works is coming from archive somehow
[08:45] <popey> 08:53 < kaushal> I am using iptables and applying rules at command line
[08:45] <popey> 08:53 < kaushal> after setting rules i did iptables-save and when i do iptables -L
[08:45] <popey> 08:57 < kaushal> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-ports 3128
[08:45] <popey> 09:14 < kaushal> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-ports 3128
[08:45] <popey> ^^
[08:45] <popey> [SLAM]
[08:45] <popey> case closed
[08:45] <popey> :D
[08:45] <shauno> hah, score.  so what's on 3128?  (please, please be a misconfigured apache)
[08:45] <popey> (or maybe not)
[08:46] <popey> probably apache in proxy mode
[08:46] <shauno> it's not his second squid, he has that on 4004
[08:46] <popey> we dont know whats changed since that conversation tho
[08:48] <shauno> so far it's making my home setup look clean & tidy :)
[08:56] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: at those digital surrey things do people have name badges? :)
[08:57] <kaushal> popey: please give me a moment
[09:00] <MooDoo> hello all
[09:05] <smittix> Morning MooDoo
[09:10] <MooDoo> how are you smittix ?
[09:16] <smittix> Not too bad, hows you?
[09:16] <MooDoo> smittix: yeah i'm ok thanks, shutting down facebook for a few weeks :D
[09:17] <smittix> MooDoo: I deactivated my account a while back now :/
[09:18] <MooDoo> smittix: i did, but like a rash it kept coming back :)
[09:18] <oimon> any android owners discover that their phone turned itself on last night? wife & I both turned phones off and the both turned on around 6am today (no alarms in use)..weird
[09:19] <MooDoo> oimon: not here, then again i don't turn mine off
[09:19] <davmor2> oimon: are you running an official version of 2.2.1 on your phone?
[09:19] <oimon> davmor2: yes
[09:19] <oimon> on HTC Desire
[09:20] <JGJones> oimon, Never happened to me. Sleepwalking? :-)
[09:20] <davmor2> oimon: that could be your issue,  although it only reboots here not switch off fullstop
[09:21] <oimon> both were defeintely off at 10pm
[09:22] <davmor2> morning all by the way
[09:24] <DJones> oimon: Desire HD here, no problem with it switching off last night
[09:25] <smittix> MooDoo: heh, I had to, I was sick of reading people's problems
[09:25] <DJones> oimon: sorry, just reread that, mine doesn't get switched off, so i wouldn't notice it switching on
[09:26] <oimon> DJones: leaving it on seems to be a popular thing
[09:26] <DJones> oimon: Yes, I just charge overnight on the bedside cabinet
[09:27] <oimon> sounds quite close to your head
[09:27] <DJones> About a foot away, but on silent
[09:28] <oimon> i was amazed at the number of people who relied on iphone alarms after the last 2 DST bugs
[09:29] <tugrik> last 2?  Was there another one last weekend or did I miss one from before?
[09:29] <kaushal> popey: back again
[09:29] <tugrik> ( "good morning" btw )
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> tugrik: iphone alarm has been buggy for at least a year
[09:29] <kaushal> sorry could not continue with the discussion
[09:30] <oimon> tugrik: , yes another problem at the weekend,
[09:30] <shauno> odd, I didn't notice any problems this weekend  (I did rig up a plan B tho)
[09:32] <kaushal> so i have a gateway which runs squid server and shorewall
[09:33] <kaushal> I have setup squid-deb-proxy on a server which is behind the gateway
[09:33] <kaushal> i cannot install squid-deb-proxy on the gateway since its 9.04 server
[09:34] <kaushal> so i have set it up inside a lan which is 172.26.0.23
[09:34] <kaushal> so on server which runs squid-deb-proxy
[09:34] <popey> kaushal: the problem is almost certainly because you have iptables configured to forward port 80 on that box to 3128
[09:35] <kaushal> oh ok
[09:35] <kaushal> you mean on gateway ?
[09:36] <popey> i dont know what boxes, I've just noticed in the past you've setup iptables to forward port 80 to 3128
[09:36] <kaushal> yes on the gateway it is
[09:36] <shauno> I'm curious why wget works and squid doesn't, if the gateway's proxying transparently
[09:37] <kaushal> but not on the squid-deb-proxy server
[09:37] <oimon> kaushal: probably the best thing to do is, dump the output of iptables-save into pastebin, and also draw a picture of the network
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> drawing pictures \o/
[09:37] <oimon> otherwise it's just guesswork
[09:37] <popey> +1
[09:38] <oimon> and also the squid config and any other relevant configs. since that's what an engineer would look at if he visisted
[09:38] <shauno> long-term, I'd consider moving the gateway to 10.04 too.  9.04 is end-of-life'd, so you've got a box in a critical position that's no longer guaranteed security updates
[09:38] <kaushal> popey: is there a squid-deb-proxy debian package available for 9.04 ?
[09:39] <kaushal> its 10.04 and further release ?
[09:39] <kaushal> shauno: makes sense
[09:39] <oimon> 10.04 is a long term support release
[09:39] <oimon> it will last longer than 10.10 support
[09:40] <kaushal> shauno: so on 10.04 i can install squid-deb-proxy ?
[09:40] <shauno> that's why I suggest 10.04.  5 years support in a server role, and squid-deb-proxy is available
[09:40] <popey> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=squid-deb-proxy
[09:40] <shauno> kaushal: yes
[09:40] <oimon> !info squid-deb-proxy lucid
[09:41] <popey> there's not much to it, it could be backported, but 9.04 is old
[09:41] <shauno> probably not an upgrade you want to do on a whim, but worth thinking about at some stage, since 9.04 ended support last october
[09:41] <popey> so little point backporting to 9.04
[09:42] <kaushal> ok
[09:42] <kaushal> so on 10.04 i run transparent proxy squid
[09:42] <kaushal> and shorewall and samba and postfix
[09:42] <kaushal> so on this i have to just install squid-deb-proxy ?
[09:43] <kaushal> I mean if i am upgrading my gateway to 10.04
[09:43] <shauno> that's what I'd do, personally.  (but tested on a spare machine first, you don't want to play rough with your gateway & mailserver :)
[09:45] <HazRPG> I came into this convo a lil too late, but what I do is test things on both a VM first, then a spare machine, then migrate - that way you can mess it up all you want and you'll have a pretty good knowledge of what your doing when you actually come to do it
[09:45] <shauno> more short term, I'd start looking at squid's logs on the gateway to find out why .23 is receiving the wrong files
[09:46] <popey> kaushal: well, when I originally suggested using squid-deb-proxy I had kinda assumed you were using a supported version of Ubuntu :)
[09:47] <kaushal> apologies
[09:47] <kaushal> i would set up a 10.04 gateway
[09:48]  * daubers gets the skype beating stick out
[09:49]  * willy_1977_atwor appears to have left irc running at home and can't get no 1 nick choice back yet...
[09:49] <gord> ghost yourself?
[09:49] <willy_1977_atwor> gord, ended up doing a release...
[09:50] <willy_1977_atwor> wonder if ghost would work now... hmmm.
[09:50] <shauno> ssh home :p
[09:50] <willy_1977_atwor> shauno, not set up yet... :( I'm new leave me alone :p
[09:51] <danfish> morning
[09:51] <danfish> no natty t-shirts in the store yet :(
[09:51] <willy_1977_atwor> yes good point danfish, good morning hope everyone is as well as can be.
[09:52] <willy_1977_atwor> shauno, on the ssh thingy... know any good guides to setting it up? or anyone for that matter?
[09:55] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:55] <shauno> willy_1977_atwor: mostly the same as anything else.  install openssh-server, port forward on your router so you can reach it.  the fun is trying to tidy it up so you don't get chinese "visitors" knocking on it all day long
[09:55] <DJones> !ssh | willy_1977_atwor
[09:55] <mfraz74> Morning Laura
[09:55] <DJones> willy_1977_atwor: That first link has a lot of good info in it
[09:55] <willy_1977_atwor> thanks shauno, DJones
[09:56] <willy_1977_atwor> morning czajkowski.
[09:57] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski how are you this fine day?
[09:57]  * popey pokes czajkowski with http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1494087857/
[09:57] <HazRPG> shauno: woot!
[09:58] <HazRPG> shauno: MartijnVdS managed to help show me the errors of my ways with the whole ipv6
[09:58] <oimon> saw this picture over someone's shoulder on the train and thought it was a narwhal..you have to look closely to see that's not it's horn/spike http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/24/article-0-0B504A8100000578-276_306x637.jpg
[09:58] <czajkowski> MooDoo: like I could lie on the floor and have someone jump up and down on my back
[09:58] <czajkowski> popey: oh interesting...
[09:58]  * popey is going
[09:58] <czajkowski> but in Guilford
[09:58] <popey> yeah
[09:58]  * czajkowski looks at trains 
[09:58] <JamesTait> And it's good morning from me. :)
[09:59] <MooDoo> czajkowski: oh dear that good eh!
[09:59] <oimon> which venue in guildford?
[09:59] <popey> click the link
[09:59] <oimon> hey, the stoke pub?
[09:59]  * oimon knows it well
[10:00] <oimon> been to wedding reception out the back, that must be where the event is held
[10:00] <HazRPG> JamesTait: sup dude \o
[10:01] <JamesTait> Hi HazRPG. :)
[10:02] <mfraz74> Think the install has hung :(
[10:03]  * davmor2 volunteers to hit czajkowski back with a lump hammer, but only if it'll help :)
[10:03] <MooDoo> davmor2: get in the queue
[10:04] <willy_1977_atwor> :o
[10:04] <willy_1977_atwor> someone could get hurt doing that.
[10:04] <MooDoo> willy_1977_atwor: nah :D
[10:04] <willy_1977_atwor> just watch you don't get your fingers in the way...
[10:04] <mfraz74> Doesn't it say wear a hard hat on the handles somewhere?
[10:04] <davmor2> MooDoo: what you have a lump hammer
[10:05] <MooDoo> davmor2: yup, although i'm quite big, i might just jump on her
[10:05] <davmor2> MooDoo: that sounds so wrong!
[10:05] <willy_1977_atwor> I thought this was a family channel you're on about jumping her now... does she not get a say?
[10:05] <MooDoo> willy_1977_atwor: er on her....be careful :)
[10:06] <mfraz74> only afterwards
[10:06] <willy_1977_atwor> :o
[10:06] <willy_1977_atwor> just to be clear...I do but jest...  no offense meant to anyone...
[10:06] <MooDoo> willy_1977_atwor: we know :D
[10:07]  * davmor2 gives czajkowski a hug and hopes her poorly back gets better soon
[10:07]  * willy_1977_atwor is glad
[10:07] <hoover> hey biggie
[10:07] <bigcalm> Hi hoover
[10:07] <MooDoo> davmor2: i know all about back ache, being tall is a pin the neck sometimes :D
[10:08] <oimon> my predecessor purchased 4 x inspiron XPS laptops with the infamous nvidia chips in..last one has just died after 3yrs. first one died after one year. i don't know how we don't deserve product recalls on those items
[10:08] <davmor2> MooDoo: it is indeed.  lower back and neck from constantly looking down to talk to people
[10:09] <MooDoo> davmor2: yup on a daily basis, think i'll chop my legs off lol
[10:09] <willy_1977_atwor> davmor2, MooDoo: it's not much fun being short and round either
[10:09] <willy_1977_atwor> I'm fed up of talking to peoples belly buttons...I'm not that short just in land of the giants at work...
[10:09] <MooDoo> :)
[10:10] <DJones> willy_1977_atwor: Just make people crawl round on their knee's
[10:11] <mfraz74> Is there going to be a Laura A and Laura B in tonight's podcast?
[10:11] <willy_1977_atwor> DJones: why didn't I think of that... and it'll help them too they don't have to look down anymore... "ok they get carpet fitters knee" but... small price for them to pay for my happiness and well being I reckon ;)
[10:12]  * shauno thinks someone's taking A/B testing to an illogical extreme ;)
[10:12] <willy_1977_atwor> shauno: alice and bob testing?
[10:17] <oimon> is there a shortcut for "show me the . files" in nautilus?
[10:17] <popey> CTRL+H
[10:17] <oimon> thanks popey
[10:17] <czajkowski> well there can't be a Laura C or a laura C as we both have C for our surnames
[10:18] <popey> np
[10:19] <czajkowski> whoo dutchie is here :D
[10:19] <MooDoo> czajkowski: but you're laura c (ztab) :)
[10:21] <oimon> :S
[10:22] <bigcalm> Who do I have to pay to get more sleep?
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yourself? :)
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> (by accepting a pay cut and working fewer hours/day)
[10:23] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: that would mean me doing more work
[10:23] <DJones> bigcalm: You can pay me, but sleep isn't a guarantee
[10:23] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> DJones: wink, wink?
[10:24] <bigcalm> I kind of like my salery
[10:24] <DJones> MartijnVdS: 40 winks :)
[10:24] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> DJones: ah, is that's what it's called these days ;)
[10:25] <bigcalm> Power naps
[10:26] <willy_1977_atwor> power naps are the future! like garlic bread.
[10:27] <BigRedS> that's one of the best sentences I've read in a while
[10:27] <oimon> a 15 min power nap on the train home is better than an extra hour of sleep at night
[10:28] <BigRedS> mostly because there's not a lot else to do on the train?
[10:28] <willy_1977_atwor> oimon: unless of course you sleep past your station...
[10:28] <willy_1977_atwor> then the restful sleep becomes a nightmare!
[10:37] <oimon> its chilly today :(
[10:39] <shauno> willy_1977_atwor: there's an app for that!(tm)
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> there's a nap for that
[10:40] <willy_1977_atwor> shauno: cool!
[10:43] <shauno> and debconf in aubergine is funky indeed
[10:44] <BigRedS> hah, yeah, I saw that announcement
[10:44] <BigRedS> I find that blue quite friendly...
[10:44] <BigRedS> slashdot's lost its green, debconf its blue...
[10:45] <shauno> it's just overly familiar. dos's installer was white(+yellow) on blue
[10:45] <shauno> not complaining, it just jumps out as being different
[10:46] <oimon> "James Gosling, father of the Java programming language, has announced that he has begun working at Google"
[10:47] <willy_1977_atwor> oimon: yeah I heard that...
[10:47]  * willy_1977 has his nick back woot!
[10:47] <MooDoo> yay
[10:47] <bigcalm> willy_1977: you could have ghosted the other instance
[10:48] <bigcalm> If you have registered the nick that is
[10:48] <willy_1977> bigcalm: it wasn't having that...
[10:48] <bigcalm> Odd
[10:48] <willy_1977> so I ended up doing a release
[10:48] <willy_1977> which then meant the ghost command was redundant (if I'm reading the response from nickserv right)
[10:50] <shauno> yeah, you can't ghost once you've done recover/release.  it changes the nick of the client using it, then marks the nick in use by services (for 60 seconds?)
[10:52] <willy_1977> bigcalm: the background was I left irc running at home (have no connection to there as yet) so had to kill off that session first ;)
[10:52] <willy_1977> shauno: thought as much.
[10:52] <shauno> then you can't ghost it because you'd be asking services to disconnect services :o)
[10:53] <bigcalm> I see
[10:53] <bigcalm> willy_1977: dyndns + port forwarding :)
[10:56] <willy_1977> bigcalm: added to list of things to read up on :D
[11:04] <HazRPG> time to sleep
[11:04] <HazRPG> been up WAY too many days now
[11:05] <screen-x>   HazRPG sleeeeep!
[11:05] <willy_1977> HazRPG: enjoy the sleep
[11:05] <bigcalm> willy_1977: if you do port forwarding to ssh, I suggest that you have the external port away from the default sshd one.
[11:05] <HazRPG> err... night/morning? :P I'll no doubt be back online later in the evening/night time.
[11:05] <HazRPG> screen-x: idd!
[11:05] <HazRPG> willy_1977: thanks :)
[11:06] <willy_1977> bigcalm: makes sense.
[11:06] <bigcalm> I have mine in the 2#### region
[11:07]  * DJones portscans all 2#### numbers
[11:07] <willy_1977> DJones: :)
[11:08] <HazRPG> BigRedS: not sure if your about, but I have written a quick draft up about setting up ipv6 and shall be posting it up at some point in the evening/night time when I get up. Hope you'll find it useful :). I have MartijnVdS and shauno to thank for all their help :).
[11:08] <HazRPG> see ya later everyone o/
[11:08] <bigcalm> DJones: good luck with that
[11:08] <DJones> Although it still doesn't help because I don't know the ip to scan against, so I'm just scanning random machines on www
[11:08] <bigcalm> :)
[11:08] <willy_1977> lol
[11:08] <bigcalm> This is why I donate to pdpc
[11:09] <BigRedS> HazRPG: Awesome! Cheers!
[11:09] <shauno> I keep mine on 443, because it doesn't tend to get filtered places, but it's just enough to drop a huge amount of random attempts
[11:09] <bigcalm> Sneaky
[11:09] <shauno> key-only logins for security, less obvious port for making logs quieter
[11:10] <BigRedS> I listen on 22 & 443, but firewall 22 off to all but a few trusted IPs
[11:10] <BigRedS> keeps things straightforward for me, and workable for the other people on my box :)
[11:10] <HazRPG> BigRedS: no problem dude :) - laters
[11:14] <bigcalm> That's find if you have static IP addresses. I love my VM cable connection too much to move to an ADSL connection with static IP
[11:15] <daubers> \o/ static ip
[11:16] <daubers>  /o\ stpid nslu2
[11:16] <daubers> Hmm.. house is currently consuming 89 watts
[11:16] <X3N> is that good or bad?
[11:16] <daubers> X3N: means the heatings switched off
[11:17] <daubers> Can't remember if I did that on purpose or not
[11:17] <DJones> I don't think a static ip is as important, I never have any problems with a dynamic ip, although saying that it doesn't change very often due to the hardware running 24/7
[11:17] <X3N> is that basically house idle ?
[11:17] <daubers> X3N: More or less, just my networking stuff running
[11:17] <Oli```> Anybody know where best to file a bug against the open source ATI video drivers?
[11:18] <X3N> Oli```: find the package that provides them and file a bug against that package in launchpad
[11:18] <X3N> seems like quite a lot daubers
[11:20] <daubers> X3N: That includes the fridge/freezer mind you
[11:20] <daubers> (two seperate appliances)
[11:20] <X3N> ah yeah
[11:20] <X3N> just one of those in running mode could give you 85w alone
[11:20] <oimon> daubers: i can usually get under 60W at night
[11:24] <oimon> i switch off my wifi at night
[11:26] <bigcalm> That's tempting
[11:26] <MooDoo> oimon: how come?
[11:26] <MooDoo> sorry ignore that
[11:27]  * dogmatic69 has 2.4 *MB* /s download \o/
[11:29] <davmor2> MooDoo: D'oh
[11:32] <daubers> oimon: I have 2 HDD's, two servers and the router running 24/7
[11:32] <daubers> want to get a GbE switch and a wireless access point turn the router into a dumb modem at some point, as the switch on it is _rubbish_
[11:33] <MooDoo> davmor2: ?
[11:33] <davmor2> just read the scrollback, "oimon: how come?"
[11:34] <MooDoo> davmor2: ah, i came in halfware through a conversation....again :D
[11:34] <davmor2> MooDoo: ^
[11:34] <MooDoo> :)
[11:34] <davmor2> MooDoo: :D
[11:34] <MooDoo> raaaaaaaaa windows viruses
[11:35] <davmor2> MooDoo: simple solution, don't use windows :D
[11:35] <MooDoo> davmor2: i don't, family does
[11:35] <davmor2> MooDoo: at least not while it's easier to use doors
[11:36] <MooDoo> davmor2: i'm trying to persuade them to switch,but they are not interested
[11:36] <dogmatic69> nothing like 1200mb download in less than 10min
[11:37] <gord> popey, ping
[11:39] <computerx> Anyone fancy helping me with a wired network, marked as down, and ifup eth0 says "Ignoring unknown interface..."
[11:43] <popey> gord: pong
[11:45] <oimon> davmor2: MooDoo: cos i don't leave stuff on overnight
[11:45] <oimon> no computers or phones need to talk to internet overnight. the only stuff i leave on is the baby night light , clock radio alarm, and pvr
[11:47] <oimon> and the fridge&freezer :)
[11:47] <DJones> oimon: That would mean getting out of bed to check your email first thing in the morning :)
[11:47] <oimon> or use 3G
[11:48] <DJones> True, but that uses my mobile bandwidth, wifi is unlimited
[11:48] <oimon> baby and doggy generally get me up rather abruptly anyway..my wifi is usually on before my phone
[11:50] <oimon> except for the nocturnal spookiness last night with the 6am android wake-up
[11:50] <DJones> I don't have the baby problem, our dog normally sleeps until one of us gets up
[11:50] <oimon> not a jack russell then DJones?
[11:51] <DJones> :) Nope
[11:51] <oimon> as soon as dog hears me thinking about getting out of bed she turns into hyper doggy
[11:52] <oimon> charges round the house to see everyone, runs into the garden , and then goes to bed for another 2 hrs
[11:52] <gord> popey, what happed with the pink tint bug last night? did you guys find a fix?
[11:52] <willy_1977> DJones: our greyhound is the same as your dog...
[11:53] <popey> gord: not sure, i am not a coder, i left a comment on the bug
[11:53] <willy_1977> gord: it's assigned to me currently - a note was put that it was fixed upstream
[11:53] <popey> but it looked sensible
[11:53] <popey> looks like the drawing of the box is done asynchronously
[11:53] <popey> which seems silly
[11:53] <willy_1977> or downstream err... I get confused...
[11:53] <DJones> willy_1977: Seem to find that bigger dogs are more relaxed and sleep longer, little ones get hyper very easily
[11:54] <gord> popey, willy_1977 - okay if its not a compiz issue then out of my hands really - someone be sure to bring it up in -desktop so someone actually looks at it :)
[11:54] <willy_1977> anyhow - the temp fix (e.g. the time pause) was already in the main gnome-utils dev branch (unless I've read it wrong) but I did only get chance to browse over it
[11:55] <oimon> btw i had a discussion last week about whether to charge students for copies of mathematica for use at home/laptops . i decided to give them for free :)
[11:56] <gord> hrm 3ds sd cards are formatted fat 16, i guess they want compatibility with people living in 1994
[11:56] <popey> willy_1977: the time delay isnt for the box
[11:56] <popey> willy_1977: the delay was added because the tool was taking screenshots of itself
[11:58] <oimon> my area is full of chav dogs now.. they all want to eat my dog and my baby
[12:01] <willy_1977> popey: ah, ok - I'll have a proper look later tonight
[12:02] <willy_1977> popey: unless I get chance to look at lunchtime...
[12:04] <czajkowski> upgrade to natty nearly there....
[12:07] <MooDoo> czajkowski: any issues?
[12:08] <czajkowski> not yet
[12:08] <czajkowski> still installing...
[12:09] <willy_1977> MooDoo: I upgraded over the weekend... went ok, then hit a kernel panic on restart - not sure if there's anything I can do to reproduce...fixed relatively easy by going to recover and rebuilding grub.cfg
[12:09] <MooDoo> as long as it's ok now :D
[12:09] <willy_1977> yeah seems fine... not on it right now as I'm at work but it's been fine...
[12:10] <MooDoo> groovy
[12:10] <gord> geeeez, i forgot how slow class 2 sd cards are. its like being on dialup!
[12:10] <gord> well if dialup was 24mbit but still
[12:19] <JGJones> Hmm - was looking at that Amazon's announcement of cloud music playing and there being claimed it's the first to do it?
[12:19] <dogmatic69> is using "tar cvpjf backup.tar.bz2 --exclude=/proc --exclude=/lost+found --exclude=/backup.tar.bz2 --exclude=/mnt --exclude=/sys /" on an instance-store on aws and then "tar xvpfz backup.tgz -C /" on an ebs ok?
[12:20] <JGJones> Was wondering...doesn't Ubuntu One already does that?
[12:20] <dogmatic69> ive done it all and now cant seem to access this new ebs box
[12:21] <gord> JGJones, yup
[12:22] <oimon> JGJones: that's apples tactic. make wild claims and only correct it if you're forced to
[12:22] <JGJones> Hmm, typical...those with the money to splash out on PR get to do this
[12:23] <JGJones> Ubuntu One just need one thing - the ability for me to purchase music via my phone (like Amazon MP3 does)
[12:24] <gord> JGJones, isn't the music store just a website? seems to be one when i'm buying stuff in banshee, maybe you can just use the phone browser
[12:25] <willy_1977_hasbe> but... that does sound like a good idea to be suggested somewhere
[12:26] <JGJones> gord, yes you could - but having a dedicated app is much easier - I'll end up just using amazon mp3 to buy songs on the move instead (much easier)
[12:26] <JGJones> anyway what's the address for the music store? :-)
[12:30] <brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
[12:30] <willy_1977> brobostigon: afternoon
[12:31] <brobostigon> willy_1977: good afternoon.
[12:32] <shauno> http://www.7digital.com/stores/default.aspx?shop=496  appears to be the tidiest url I can find :/
[12:36] <willy_1977> JGJones I like that suggestion, not that I've used ubuntu one or owt but... nice little project I'd have thought - although going through the iphone hoops to get onto the appstore... :/
[12:36] <shauno> I think it's already on the appstore?
[12:40] <willy_1977> ahhh ok, so someone has done a client for it?
[12:40] <czajkowski> upgraded work machine to natty....
[12:40] <MooDoo> yay
[12:40] <czajkowski> looks very different from home machine
[12:41] <shauno> willy_1977: if I search the store on my phone, it comes up with https://one.ubuntu.com/mobile/  .. but it doesn't make clear whether you can purchase tracks thru it or not
[12:41] <willy_1977> czajkowski: does that mean you are using unity?
[12:42] <willy_1977> shauno: just searched here too... doesn't make it clear it's not in there but it's not listed as a feature...
[12:44] <czajkowski> willy_1977: yes
[12:44] <czajkowski> I dislike how once again chrome has removed all of my passowrds and logsin
[12:44] <czajkowski> *logins
[12:44] <willy_1977> :o
[12:44] <willy_1977> doesn't sound so good...
[12:44] <gord> doesn't chrome sync passwords/logins?
[12:45] <gord> i thought it at least synced that
[12:45] <czajkowski> gord: it should do...
[12:45] <czajkowski> but on upgrade fro maverick to natty, all my login details are gone
[12:45] <gord> evil
[12:46] <gord> lets hoped it hasn't synced that reset of passwords to your other chrome installs...
[12:50] <popey> lastpass ftw
[12:51] <czajkowski> mmmmmm tasty spag bol
[12:51] <dwatkins> I'm hungry now, czajkowski ;)
[12:53] <willy_1977> on unity my first thoughts are why isn't this there, and where's that gone etc. etc. but to be fair when work switched from xp to windows vespa it was the same...and I finally got used to it ;)
[12:59] <czajkowski> dwatkins: I suggest food
[13:12] <dwatkins> czajkowski: indeed, lots of it
[13:16] <willy_1977> hummm how long does the podcast live show usually last for? I'm just wondering if I can catch any of it tonight as I'll not be back to 2130 at the earliest.
[13:16] <popey> 1 hour
[13:16] <popey> if we stick to the clock
[13:16] <willy_1977> ah ok, will have to pick it up on gpodder then.
[13:23] <shauno> man I hate dealing with registrars
[13:23] <shauno> 54 quid to retag a .uk domain?  nominet will do it for 10 :/
[13:26] <MooDoo> shauno: get nominet to do it then :D
[13:26] <shauno> I did :)  figured out how to do that when my last registrar pulled a funny one
[13:27] <MooDoo> :D
[13:28] <shauno> they somehow forgot to autorenew, then told me I had a chance at winning it back at auction
[13:28] <MooDoo> shauno: that's crap
[13:28] <shauno> nominet have a grace period, my name was still on it, so I retagged it myself for a tenner
[13:29] <MooDoo> shauno: yeah nominet are pretty good
[13:29] <shauno> they are.  I've been pleasantly surprised every time I've had to deal with them
[13:30] <MooDoo> shauno: wish i could afford to be a tag holder myself :)
[13:30] <DJones> I'd have thought they would just have a computerised system which does automatically reminded the customer to pay & if received submitted the relevant doumentation
[13:32] <shauno> they'd just chipped it off my card for years in a row.  then one year, just didn't
[13:32] <AlanBell> some ISPs allow other people to pay outstanding fees for domains
[13:33] <shauno> makes sense to me.  it's not like you can maliciously pay someone else's fare :)
[13:33] <DJones> Thats got me thinking though, what happens to domains that aren't renewed, do they just become available again or does they get passed on to domain squatters etc
[13:33] <AlanBell> I once paid for the gravatar.com domain for a year when it went down and broke everyone's blog comment avatars
[13:33] <AlanBell> traced it back to the ISP, saw the outstanding payment, paid $5, fixed the internet
[13:34] <shauno> DJones: they're meant to just get released, but people intentionally watch expiring domains
[13:34] <shauno> (assuming no funny business)
[13:35] <hamitron> and ones you want never expire
[13:35] <hamitron> ;)
[13:35] <popey> when i registered my company I wanted the .IT domain, someone registered it the day I setup my company!
[13:36] <popey> so i thought I'd go for the .com, which was idle, contacted the owner and they wanted $3K for it
[13:36] <popey> "no thanks"
[13:36] <hamitron> :/
[13:36] <shauno> .it used to be a bit evil, but they've relaxed now
[13:36] <popey> then I got some paper spam from a domain company saying that .com was gone, but we could register a .ltd.uk for you
[13:36] <popey> so i thought "thanks" and went elsewhere to get it :D
[13:36] <hamitron> :))
[13:37] <DJones> I'm not thinking about the popular domain names, maybe more somebodys personal website were the address wouldn't be on a watch list, eg www.tomsmithhobbies.co.uk etc, I presume something like that would just get released
[13:37] <AlanBell> Oops! Google Chrome could not find www.tomsmithhobbies.co.uk
[13:37] <DJones> AlanBell: Must have been released :)
[13:38] <hamitron> AB automatically clicks on every link? ;)
[13:38] <DJones> I'm waiting for a big multinational to introduce a product worldwide with a name that fits a personal website so I can sell them the name for shedloads of money :)
[13:39] <popey> ooo
[13:39] <popey> in screen, CTRL+A, C blanks the screen
[13:39] <popey> neato
[13:39] <popey> then CTRL+L redraws
[13:39] <popey> (i accidentially had caps lock on, wanted little c)
[13:40] <DJones> Isnt Ctrl+A C Create new window, or is it the caps lock C thats case sensitive
[13:40] <AlanBell> ctrl+a c creates a new window?
[13:40] <popey> DJones: C clears, c creates new window
[13:40] <DJones> Ah
[13:40] <AlanBell> ooh, very odd
[13:41] <AlanBell> why would you want to do that?
[13:42] <hamitron> some command line apps don't always work well maybe?
[13:43] <hamitron> I remember having problems with epic in screen once
[13:43] <DJones> I guess it could be useful if you want to hide what you're doing when somebody looks over your shoulder & then redraw once they've gone away
[13:43] <oimon> noticed a ballot paper on my pile of unopened post the other day ..anyone know what it's for (i'm inside london)
[13:43] <DJones> Local elections?
[13:44] <DJones> Alternative vote vote?
[13:44] <hamitron> is that this year?
[13:44] <seeker> It will be for the AV referendum
[13:45] <DJones> hamitron: Early may I think
[13:45] <X3N> May 6th I think
[13:45] <oimon> i have a feeling it's just for the PR vote thing.. and no actual elections
[13:45] <DJones> 5th May
[13:45] <oimon> turnout is gonna be pretty small for that then
[13:45] <hamitron> AV, not PR ;/
[13:46] <oimon> same gubbins though
[13:46] <DJones> same day as local elections, but electoral register doesn't close until 14th April, so unlikely to be for either of them
[13:46] <seeker> oimon: Most of the country other than central London has local elections too
[13:47] <oimon> seeker - they should get the normal 50% ish turnout then..but inside london?
[13:48] <oimon> maybe they should have a facebook referendum
[13:48] <hamitron> to ban facebook?
[13:48] <oimon> :P
[13:48] <oimon> hold the referendum on facebook
[13:48] <willy_1977> Should we ban facebook?
[13:48] <willy_1977> yes
[13:48] <willy_1977> yes?
[13:48] <hamitron> will we? no :/
[13:48]  * oimon likes facebook
[13:49]  * willy_1977 and facebook are going thorugh a messy separation...
[13:49] <hamitron> if you held a referendum to ban facebook on facebook, prob not work well :/
[13:49] <oimon> when you get to the stage in life that a lot of your friends are getting married and having kids, it's nice to see them growing up via photos on facebook, especially if you only get to see them once a year or less
[13:49] <hamitron> I like walking to the polling station, there are 4 pubs on route
[13:50] <DJones> Rather than banning facebook, maybe just ban the games on it & take facebook back to its original idea
[13:50] <hamitron> I personally hate the idea of communicating through facebook
[13:50] <oimon> i do like the facility to ban certain apps from your list..shame you cant ban all by default though
[13:50] <hamitron> a lot of people are using facebook and getting lazy
[13:51] <shauno> hamitron: it gets better .. there's another 4 pubs on the way home :)
[13:51] <hamitron> shauno: exactly :)
[13:51] <hamitron> I try to go to vote each day, do my bit for the country
[13:52] <hamitron> only they aren't open that often
[13:52] <JGJones> oimon, I've just closed my profile to everyone (ie all permissions set to me only) and the next step is to delete my account. The reasoning? Seeing people getting lazy thinking that a status update on facebook is "communicating"
[13:52] <oimon> JGJones: it is communicating though.
[13:52] <hamitron> oimon: it isn't
[13:52] <JGJones> oimon, No it's not.
[13:52] <DJones> seeker: Any idea why central london isn't/doesn't have local elections
[13:52] <willy_1977> oimon: I agree in the respect of social sharing for distance friends etc. but facebook has just morphed into some beast...
[13:52] <JGJones> oimon, a emotionless text status box tell me nothing.
[13:52] <oimon> then when i meet friends , i've caught up with a few factoids about what's happening with them, and we can engage in decent conversation.
[13:53] <oimon> it's more of a social lubricant than alcohol
[13:53] <hamitron> this year I've found out off a few people they haven't received my xmas cards for a few years.... because they tell "everyone" their change of address on facebook
[13:53] <shauno> I find facebook's the easiest way for me to have random natters with family members now.  that's worth summat to me
[13:54] <oimon> sometimes you find out bad news via facebook that means it's not awkward when you pile into a conversation and didn't know about the bad news
[13:54] <hamitron> they also post "merry xmas everyone!" and consider that a replacement to hand writing xmas cards/letters
[13:54]  * hamitron grunts
[13:54] <seeker> DJones: No idea
[13:54] <JGJones> oimon, um, finding out bad news leading to people avoiding the subject when meeting face to face? Not ideal.
[13:55] <DJones> hamitron: Thanks for that idea, thats just save me £10 in postage
[13:55] <oimon> JGJones: it means you are informed
[13:55] <hamitron> hehe
[13:55] <oimon> shame to hear about your miscarriage is better than, i see your bump is getting bigger, when's it due again?
[13:55] <JGJones> Frankly I find it more pleasant to meet people and then finding out NEW things by the pleasure of them telling me. That's priceless and should not be replaced by a bland generic text based page.
[13:56]  * hamitron agrees with JGJones
[13:56] <JGJones> oimon, yes I would prefer that actually. Allowing people to TALK about it help the healing process.
[13:56] <popey> hamitron: are you on facebook?
[13:56] <hamitron> popey: no
[13:56] <willy_1977> oimon: I'd say you're wrong there...
[13:56] <popey> me neither
[13:56] <popey> :)
[13:56] <oimon> i've seen it work well. i have huge number of family members, and i feel we all get on better knowing a bit more about the triviliaties in our lives since it helps us to catch up and converse
[13:57]  * MooDoo has just deactivated his :)
[13:57] <oimon> when there's a big family do
[13:57] <hamitron> I refuse to be dragged into a site that people want me to join, just cuz they are too lazy to write me a letter.... if I mean that little to them, I don't need them
[13:57]  * popey starts the timer on when MooDoo will be back on facebook
[13:57] <JGJones> Instead of avoiding the subject (case in point - step brother of mine have just had a miscarriage - his friends that found out by facebook doesn't talk about it = "it doesn't exist". Those that found out in person, talk about with them - guess which they prefer).
[13:57] <oimon> i'm talking about wider family
[13:57] <MooDoo> popey: one month when i've passed my exam :)
[13:57] <willy_1977> yes there's the inital oh bother but what happened bfb?
[13:57] <willy_1977> *before facebook
[13:58] <DJones> Probably 95% of facebook messages wouldn't be posted there if children had their parents as friends :)
[13:58] <MooDoo> DJones: http://failbook.failblog.org/
[13:58] <oimon> DJones: it's a good way to check your status messages
[13:58] <JGJones> oimon, heh - my wife's irish....they  have a huge family (everyone's a cousin or something) :-) - They all talk and catch up on EVERYTHING...all without needing Facebook too :-)
[13:58] <hamitron> before facebook..... everyone talked more, so word would of spread faster by mouth
[13:59] <shauno> I've siblings spread from here to alaska.  without sharing natters online, it'd spread much, much slower
[13:59] <oimon> i find it hard to communicate with uncles/aunts and some cousins, (around 65 of them) all at once otherwise.
[13:59] <willy_1977> my revelation was as I was updating my status whilst taking a dump... I thought what the fluff am I doing...it was taking over my life!!!! man... I'm sad!
[14:00] <oimon> willy_1977: yeah, that's what twitter is for!
[14:00] <hamitron> shauno: there is a place for some communication ofc
[14:00] <DJones> I've got my wifes cousin 18 year old cousin on facebook, her parents would have been horrified at things she's put on their over the last couple of years
[14:00] <JGJones> Now with friends - I have found this to be true - they say "oh did you hear about xxxx on facebook?" - everyone say yeah. Conversation at that point end within a minute. I say "I haven't" as they know I don't use it. They all talk about it a lot more suddenly.
[14:00] <JGJones> So in a sense, knowing something before meeting people just kill conversations - it's covered already.
[14:01] <hamitron> good old "catch up" convos :)
[14:01] <BigRedS> well, that's just everyone else having already had the conversation
[14:01] <BigRedS> that happens in real life, too
[14:01] <willy_1977> oimon: I've not bothered with twa... errr twitter in a while either
[14:01] <hamitron> posting a line of text on facebook is not a convo :/
[14:01] <BigRedS> no
[14:01] <hamitron> it is just a way of passing on a message
[14:02] <BigRedS> but if one person posts a line, and then someone else posts another, and a third person yet another, then one of the first two reply, and then one of the other two do, too, once that repeats it gets pretty close to a conversation
[14:02] <oimon> i'm not too prolific on facebook but i like posting photos
[14:02] <JGJones> Try going cold turkey with facebook for a while = does it really affect your relationship with your friends/family? My guess are it won't make a difference :-)
[14:02] <JGJones> Your mum's still your mum after all ;-)
[14:02] <JGJones> (at least I would hope so!)
[14:02] <oimon> my extended family love to see photos of my kid, otherwise i'd have to spam them all via email
[14:03] <hamitron> JGJones: it won't affect things with close people, no
[14:03] <DJones> BigRedS: Thats sounds like a description of IRC ... One person posts a line, someone else posts another etc :)
[14:03] <shauno> heh, my mum's still my mum, and she's still 6 timezones away :)
[14:03] <BigRedS> DJones: exactly :) I have conversations on Facebook all the time
[14:03] <DJones> Although for some people 3 lines might be a novel for some people
[14:03] <BigRedS> 'cause the people I used to talk to on AIM or whatever now don't bother signing in any more
[14:03] <hamitron> a 2 min convo would take my Dad days to type :/
[14:04] <oimon> BigRedS: me too - a few have moved to gmail chat and that's about it
[14:04] <popey> yup, pretty much nobody ever contacts me on msn, yahoo, icq or google talk now
[14:04] <popey> they're all on facebook
[14:05] <gord> hehe  http://www.cadw.wales.gov.uk/ - view source ;)
[14:05] <JGJones> strangely enough - I've noticed a lot not talking on IM, but they also talk a lot less via IM - even if including FB chat. Seems that a status update is enough for them and they don't use IM
[14:05] <DJones> People with android phones seem to use googletalk im quite a bit
[14:05] <Tommeh> Guity
[14:05] <Tommeh> *Guilty
[14:06] <Tommeh> I prefer it to using MSN in pidgin. too
[14:06] <hamitron> JGJones: suppose if people use a chat, it maybe isn't so bad
[14:06] <JGJones> hamitron, no...I mean that in my case, friends use IM a lot less
[14:06] <JGJones> hamitron, even if I include Facebook's inbuilt IM
[14:07] <DJones> Tommeh: Same here, almost everybody I know that used to use MSN either use facebook or googletalk now
[14:07] <hamitron> live "chat" is not like putting a sticky note on my front door
[14:07] <hamitron> JGJones: what is happening to you would annoy me :)
[14:09] <willy_1977> well facebook has it's uses I just think it's over-used and now bloated with other rubbish that's not needed...Lately it's just been a way for people who used to flush my head down the toilet at school to salve their conscience so I blocked 'em all :p
[14:10] <DJones> Things change over time, how many people still use friendsreunited.co.uk
[14:10] <shauno> that's the one thing I do to make it sensible.  I block anyone I'm not either related to, or close enough friends with that I'd travel to see them again
[14:11] <czajkowski> great fraud alert went on my card and has now had to be cancelled due to someone trying to use it.
[14:11] <shauno> :(
[14:11] <DJones> Ouch
[14:11] <MooDoo> oh dear
[14:11] <shauno> bright side, they caught it in time?
[14:12] <shauno> still a pain in the rear tho
[14:12] <hamitron> "damn, bounced payment into my account" ;)
[14:12] <willy_1977> yowser... as shauno says at least it was caught I guess.
[14:14] <DJones> czajkowski: How long for a replacement card to come through
[14:15] <czajkowski> 5-7 wworking day
[14:15] <czajkowski> s
[14:15] <DJones> Thats definately a pain
[14:15] <czajkowski> hmm my tweets/dents don't seem to be working since my upgrade
[14:16] <MooDoo> czajkowski: you're ok for cash etc though yeah?
[14:16] <DJones> czajkowski:I wondered why I've not seen any tweets saying you were either at a train station or in a pub/eating house
[14:17] <czajkowski> MooDoo: aye
[14:17] <czajkowski> I cna go into a bank to withdraw cash
[14:17] <czajkowski> DJones: :p
[14:18] <MooDoo> czajkowski: ok just making sure :)
[14:25] <Tommeh> 'The Bank of Filbert', shirley?
[14:26] <czajkowski> Tommeh: eh no
[14:27] <Tommeh> Spoilsport >.<
[14:31] <bigcalm> Missread as Soil-snort
[14:31] <bigcalm> Which could be painful
[14:37] <DJones> BigRedS: Use fine grade soil, it might reduce the pain
[14:39] <bigcalm> DJones: Tab fail :(
[14:39] <DJones> s/BigRedS/bigcalm
[14:39] <DJones> Fixed
[14:40] <BigRedS> Haha! That confused me for a while
[14:41] <bigcalm> BigRedS: lazy bunch in here ;)
[14:41] <davmor2> czajkowski: repeat after me "I must stop break stuff when upgrading"  I think the version of sqlite changed try popey cache clear twitter post to fix it :)
[14:42] <popey> http://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/51729802612322304
[14:42] <davmor2> czajkowski: don't forget to stop gwibber-service and gwibber before you do though
[14:42] <davmor2> czajkowski: that should reset you with the last X quantity of posts :0
[14:43] <davmor2> s/0/)
[14:46] <n1md4> hello.  does anyone know how to convert 3gpp to mp3?
[14:47] <popey> I'd probably use ffmpeg
[14:51] <JGJones> n1md4, if you want a GUI method - you could try Sound Converter?
[15:01] <popey> we talked about the openpandora here last week...
[15:01] <popey> http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/2630-juggling-with-some-numbers-2011-03-29/
[15:02] <popey> doesn't look good
[15:03] <n1md4> JGJones: I don't mind GUI, but doesn't seem to want to work with 3GPP.
[15:05] <JGJones> Arista transcoder is another GUI tool - dunno if it converts to MP3 though. Otherwise it's ffmpeg
[15:06] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpeg/+bug/93849
[15:06] <popey> maybe use vlc?
[15:13] <willy_1977> popey: openpandora... it's just teething trouble.
[15:15] <popey> hahaha
[15:20] <oimon> anyone using nomachine/freenx as a terminal server for multiple remote users?
[15:22] <BigRedS> I'm sure there's an easy way for someone other than root to get a list of IP addresses live on a machine, but I can't work out what it is...
[15:22] <BigRedS> anyone know?
[15:24] <oimon> what's a "list of IP addresses live"
[15:24] <willy_1977> BigRedS: not quite sure what you mean...oh yep what oimon said...
[15:25] <davmor2> BigRedS: Do you mean in server terms people connected to it or do you mean ifconfig so you know what it's ipaddresses are
[15:26] <BigRedS> davmor2: ifconfig -a for normal users
[15:27] <smittix> Has anyone managed to get evolution working with MS Exchange properly GAL and all
[15:27] <BigRedS> sorry, wandered off to find out :)
[15:27] <BigRedS> I'm scripting a thing to find sites configured on a server where the domain name doesn't point at it, and I'd rather not have it need to be run as root
[15:27] <oimon> /sbin/ifconfig since /sbin isn't in the usual path for usrs
[15:27] <davmor2> BigRedS: ifconfig -a ;)
[15:27] <BigRedS> Hah, oh yeah
[15:28]  * BigRedS feels a bit silly 
[15:29] <shauno> woot.  finished he.net's ipv6 'certification' thingie.  no idea what it's worth, but hey - free t-shirt
[15:29] <oimon> btw any takers for my freenx/nomachine question up there ^^ ?
[15:33] <davmor2> BigRedS: feel free to slap your head and say "D'oh!!" at any point :)
[15:33] <BigRedS> davmor2: Haha, already done! :)
[15:33] <BigRedS> oimon: I read it, but I can't help I'm afraid :(
[15:33] <oimon> BigRedS: thanks for the sympathy anyway :)
[15:36]  * smittix Pulls what is left of his hair out.
[15:55] <daubers> \o/ common sense from a manufacturers sales agents
[15:56] <daubers> Ice cream makers plastic lid cracked, company line is "We don't keep them as spare parts, go back to the retailer", but we where given it as a gift so can't. However, did manage to speak to someone with _some_ semblence of common sense who is speaking to the factory to see if they can get a lid to replace the broken one \o/
[15:56] <daubers> My faith in humanity is lifted a small amount
[16:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> Can't say I am surprised but Interesting how FF4 is eclipsing IE9 in the download stakes... http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/29/6367464-browser-wars-update-firefox-4-slaughtering-internet-explorer-9
[16:12] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, has ie9 been force-fed to anyone through windowsupdate yet? anyone running ff3.6 has already been fed ff4
[16:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Dunno. but IE9 doesn't run on XP which means it's going to languish for a long time anyway.
[16:13] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, that's a good point
[16:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> My FF3.6 hasn't updated ;-) Nor do I expect it to.
[16:14] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, check under help/check for updates!
[16:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> The Canonical/Ubuntu build package has that feature disabled.
[16:16] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, well, if you will run some backwards os without the amazing choice of ie9...
[16:16] <directhex> (NOTE, THIS IS A JOKE)
[16:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: No sh*t sherlock ;-)
[16:17] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, some of us are under extra suspicion when it comes to such jokes ¬_¬
[16:17] <willy_1977> IE9 has not been force fed  - but neither has FF4 (in windows land )
[16:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> And that is well deserved directhex
[16:18] <directhex> willy_1977, it's definitely fed via "check for updates" in 3.6.16
[16:19] <willy_1977> I was thinking more of the automatic "I didn't go looking for this update" update...
[16:20] <willy_1977> oh poo... I've just realised I'm supposed to be leaving early today and I'm still slap bang in the middle of something... ear chewing from mrs w may be on the cards... gaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh....
[16:21] <directhex> willy_1977, it does the automatic search every week or so. so give it a couple of days
[16:21] <directhex> some people WILL have been given the message without asking
[16:22] <willy_1977> got you - well that's cool but ie9 definitely not come through yet (thank the lord - I'll be holding off for SP1 or something)
[16:22] <willy_1977> on that bombshell though better go run me errands.
[16:22] <willy_1977> bbl
[16:26] <JGJones> I don't think that FF4 is being pushed as an update by Mozilla yet so all downloads of that is manual at the moment.
[16:26] <JGJones> (at least for Windows/OSX)
[16:27] <directhex> JGJones, manual as in "check for updates" or firefox-setup.exe?
[16:28] <JGJones> as in firefox-setup.exe (people going to website and downloading it
[16:28] <DJones> directhex: I've just looked at a machine I've got & thats still running 3.6.16 on a 10.04 machine
[16:28] <daubers> JGJones: I have noted that if you're running FF3.x on a PPC mac, it will still prompt you to update, and then it won't run as they don't support PPC anymore :)
[16:28] <directhex> JGJones, that's definitely false. i upgraded my windows partiiton & my wife's desktop without visiting the firefox website. just help/check for updates
[16:28] <directhex> DJones, updates are disabled on ubuntu. apt takes over.
[16:28] <JGJones> directhex, ah, ok thanks, I stand corrected :-)
[16:29] <oimon> apt FTW
[16:29] <DJones> directhex: ok, I thought you were suggesting that ff4 was being updated regardless of that
[16:29] <JGJones> DJones, I use Mozilla's PPA to get updates, so I get FF4 on a 10.04 machine
[16:30] <oimon> is ie9 delivered as part of windowsupdate?
[16:30] <JGJones> Either way, it doesn't matter much to me. I use the superior browser of all - Opera ;-)
[16:30] <JGJones> oimon, no as far as I know.
[16:34] <oimon> never got into opera..i guess it was the lack of easy adblocker
[16:46] <JGJones> oimon, I don't usually block ads on many websites that I go to since for any good sites, it's how they make money in order to operate.
[16:47] <JGJones> oimon, however there's some extensions for Opera that does block ads such as this one - https://addons.opera.com/addons/extensions/details/noads/1.0.8/?display=en
[16:49] <oimon> i find browsing the web nearly impossible without some kind of adblocking - particularly if i'm researching a problem i might visit 100s of sites in a day..and you gotta kiss a lot of frogs before you find the prince
[16:51] <oimon> browsing on my android phone is pretty tough unless they deliver a mobile version of the site..and sucks up bandwidth. i hear firefox mobile has extension support built in
[16:52] <JGJones> oimon, You could get the Opera Mobile browser - it deals with desktop version of websites quite well and you can enable "mobile view" where it attempts to reformat a page into a mobile version. Works well most of the time, but not always.
[16:53] <oimon> might give it a go
[16:53] <JGJones> But firefox mobile, I'm not sure how much their extension support will add, I think it would be a limited version, ie you can't add all the extensions you want.
[16:54] <JGJones> Opera Mini for when you're using 3G only (it compress pages before you get them, save on bandwidth)
[16:54] <oimon> sites make money from users clicking ads rather than viewing them
[16:55] <directhex> a bit of both
[16:55] <oimon> google text ads are ok, but facebook sidebar ads were offensive so i made sure they never came back
[16:55] <oimon> made my web cache look like i'd been surfing singles sites or something
[16:58] <oimon> btw the advert supplied in the spotify client didn't have to be clicked in order to infect the windows machine  =-O
[17:15] <davmor2> thought people might like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YANe3o1dgG0
[17:19] <JGJones> Hmm - I'm compiling libopal at the moment in order to get H263, H263+ and H264 in Ekiga...one question...I'll need the libavcodec that I get from mediubuntu, but I need the -dev version...where would I get this from since it's not in mediubuntu?
[17:22] <hamitron> it isn't in universe?
[17:22] <hamitron> http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/libopal-dev
[17:23] <hamitron> oh nvm, looking up wrong thing
[17:23] <X3N> I always advocate apt-get buildep package
[17:23] <X3N> but libavcodec-dev is available
[17:23] <JGJones> Yeah, that's in main - so I don't know if that would include H263, H264 etc?
[17:23] <JGJones> if it does I will use that
[17:24] <X3N> try it and see?
[17:24] <X3N> or apt-get builddep libopal
[17:25] <X3N> *build-dep
[18:21] <Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110329_181626.jpg here be cooling :3
[18:23] <shauno> sweet; you're making a hovercraft?!
[18:23] <Azelphur> haha :D
[18:24] <Azelphur> shauno: fans for my radiator :)
[18:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> WTF are you trying to cool Azelphur - Why not just go for Phase Change or Liquid Nitrogen?
[18:24] <Azelphur> Liquid nitro isn't sustainable and phase change requires insulation and is very tricky to pull off
[18:24] <Azelphur> I'm doing water, those are the fans on the radiator
[18:24] <Myrtti> herm.
[18:26] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: with phase change because the temps are so far below 0 you get condensation buildup so unless you insulate the motherboard you kill it
[18:26] <Azelphur> and if you get it wrong you kill it, and it's generally far more difficult to pull off than water :p
[18:27] <Azelphur> and yea, liquid nitro isn't exactly safe to work with either
[18:28] <Azelphur> for obvious reasons xD
[18:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Try this then instead ;-) http://www.armari.com/xcp-gallery.asp
[18:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Full immersive cooling
[18:28] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: I thought about that too, it's less efficient than water.
[18:28] <hamitron> hows about getting something that emites less heat?
[18:29] <hamitron> ;)
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: heretic!
[18:29] <Azelphur> ^
[18:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> There's always that hamitron
[18:29] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: with full immersive the radiator has so much more work to do keeping a large volume of water cool
[18:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> I choose components for thermal efficiency.
[18:29] <Azelphur> vs a closed loop, there's far less water and the radiator can act more optimially
[18:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: That isn't water.
[18:29] <Azelphur> no, it's probably oil
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> meltdown!
[18:30] <Azelphur> as I say, I considered it :)
[18:30] <Azelphur> it's great if you want decent cooling with near silence, but it's not actually optimal
[18:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73554
[18:31] <hamitron> how cool should the chipset reading be?
[18:31] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: yea, I'd still be dubious as to how much better it'd perform vs my setup
[18:32] <hamitron> if I had money, I'd go entirely passive
[18:32] <hamitron> :)
[18:32] <Azelphur> 4 3000RPM fans strapped to the side of a 480mm radiator is going to be a pretty decent amount of cooling
[18:32] <hamitron> maybe with water cooling
[18:33] <Azelphur> hamitron: I wanna try and get my i7 up to 4-5ghz :)
[18:33] <gord> watercooling still needs a pump and a fan to blow on a radiator. its not passive by a long shot ;)
[18:33] <Azelphur> indeed
[18:33] <hamitron> it is if the radiators have no fan
[18:33] <gord> i run my i7 with water cooling right now, works well
[18:33] <hamitron> well, fanless I mean
[18:33] <hamitron> ;/
[18:33] <Azelphur> hamitron: imo if you want passive full submersion like TheOpenSourcerer linked is the best way to go
[18:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cooling#Liquid_submersion_cooling
[18:34] <Azelphur> that stuff can get rid of a very decent amount of heat with no radiator or anything, pudget systems has an example system that's completely passive
[18:34] <shauno> or you can put together a pretty passable atom system that's fanless
[18:34] <hamitron> I'd have a water pump, fanless, with the pipes going under the floor for underfloor heating ideally
[18:34] <gord> atoms get real hot without fans
[18:35] <gord> if you want to go that way, get an arm chipset
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> good thing I have lots of fans -- I'm made of atoms!
[18:35] <shauno> lol hamitron .. now there's an interesting idea
[18:35] <Azelphur> the joggler has an atom with a plastic heat sink and does ok
[18:35] <Azelphur> gord: ^
[18:36] <hamitron> shauno: I should patent it? ;)
[18:37] <hamitron> £2000 comp with £8000 fittings
[18:37] <Myrtti> ooo, I like this redshift thing
[18:37] <hamitron> 10% discount if you join my BOINC team
[18:41] <hamitron> Azelphur: is that a usb game controller?
[18:41] <Azelphur> hamitron: it's a normal playstation pad plugged into a £2 converter from ebay :)
[18:41] <hamitron> oh, cool
[18:41] <hamitron> i got a converter arriving
[18:41] <Azelphur> yea, they are nice
[18:42] <hamitron> was wonder what controller it is
[18:42] <hamitron> as I want something like a ps1 controller for PC
[18:42] <Azelphur> well that is a ps1 controller that plugs into a PC :)
[18:43] <hamitron> I'll soon ahve the same then
[18:43] <hamitron> I saw a PC controller for £25, but not paying that
[18:43] <Azelphur> yea, they work ootb with Ubuntu and Windows or whatever, very generic they work great
[18:43] <hamitron> I don't play enough games that I'd use gamepad
[18:43] <Azelphur> I've had it for ages
[18:43] <Azelphur> works with wine too :)
[18:44] <hamitron> well, it will be on my win7 pc tbh ;)
[18:44] <Azelphur> :)
[18:44] <shauno> I found it pretty easy to get mame to play nicely with generic usb gamepads.  my keyboard thanked me.
[18:44] <hamitron> shauno: I just haven't found a usb gamepad for pc I like, for the right price
[18:45] <hamitron> both mine use midi port
[18:45] <hamitron> :/
[18:45] <shauno> I got a knock-off playstation controller from dealextreme
[18:46] <hamitron> the G27 is calling me these days
[18:46] <shauno> something like http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-2-0-gamepad-for-pc-laptop-black-160cm-cable-48560
[18:46] <hamitron> I should really make the jump to one
[18:47] <shauno> £4.25 shipped :o)   gotta love DX
[18:47] <hamitron> this one! http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-pc-dualshock-controller-black-618
[18:47] <hamitron> ;)
[18:47] <hamitron> looks way more hardcore
[18:48] <Azelphur> shauno: DX annoyed me recently, they took 2 weeks before my item even left the warehouse
[18:48] <Azelphur> over a month before it was on my doorstep
[18:48] <hamitron> :/
[18:48] <Azelphur> and over a week to reply to ticket :/
[18:48] <hamitron> I've been waiting 24 days for my ps1 to usb adapter
[18:48] <hamitron> :(
[18:49] <shauno> their shipping can be all over the place.  I tend not to complain when it's coming from hong kong to europe for £4 tho
[18:49] <hamitron> cheesnies need to work on they speed
[18:49] <shauno> but it does seem to vary wildly.  I've usually forgotten what I ordered by time it shows up
[18:49] <hamitron> yeh
[19:08] <jacobw> Azelphur: I'm looking at the Eee PC 1018p
[19:08] <Azelphur> jacobw: interested in used? :P
[19:08] <jacobw> Have you got a used one :o ?
[19:08] <Azelphur> I have a 1001P I wouldn't mind selling
[19:08] <Azelphur> so I could upgrade to a tablet version
[19:08] <jacobw> Ah ha, sounds good.
[19:09] <jacobw> Specs..
[19:09] <Azelphur> it's in pretty good condition, runs Ubuntu fine, It even has well-placed ubuntu stickers, there's a small scratch on the lid
[19:09] <jacobw> I'm not bothered about cosmetics
[19:09] <Azelphur> lemme grab it and I'll check the specs
[19:10] <hamitron> all these Eee PC seem about teh same don't they?
[19:10] <hamitron> just slight differences
[19:10] <Azelphur> there are certain atoms that chug power
[19:10] <Azelphur> mine is one of the ones that doesn't chug power :D
[19:11] <hamitron> this one for 300 quid has faster cpu and USB 3.0
[19:11] <hamitron> netbook with sub 3.0? ;/
[19:11] <hamitron> usb*
[19:11] <jacobw> USB 3.0?
[19:12] <Azelphur> jacobw: Atom N450 @ 1.66Ghz, 1GB RAM, 150GB HD, built in webcam
[19:13] <Azelphur> jacobw: battery charges to 93.6% of capacity :)
[19:14] <jacobw> How is the battery life?
[19:14] <Azelphur> 5 hours with compiz and 3 instances of conky running lol
[19:14] <Azelphur> could probably get 8 out of it without too much trouble
[19:15] <jacobw> Any Linux problems?
[19:15] <Azelphur> jacobw: none that I've seen, I use it exclusively on Ubuntu
[19:16] <jacobw> Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that sound through headphones or something wasn't a problem
[19:16] <czajkowski> Aloha
[19:16] <jacobw> o/
[19:16] <Azelphur> jacobw: nope, speakers and headphones work, I use it to watch TV in bed with mythtv + headphones almost daily lol
[19:17] <jacobw> :)
[19:18] <Azelphur> jacobw: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110329_191348.jpg here's a pic of the scratch :p
[19:19] <Azelphur> jacobw: I did a review of it http://azelphur.com/my-new-netbook-asus-1001p-review if you look at the bottom there's photos of where I've placed Ubuntu stickers :)
[19:19] <jacobw> I came across that blog post yesterday while I searching for netbooks
[19:19] <Azelphur> haha :D
[19:19] <Azelphur> that's my blog ;)
[19:20] <jacobw> Yes yes, I know :)
[19:21] <Azelphur> hehe
[19:21] <Azelphur> jacobw: theres a script attached too to set up two finger scrolling
[19:21] <Azelphur> which is really cool :D
[19:22] <Azelphur> I don't know why the option is greyed out in the mouse settings dialog, but that script sets it up *shrug*
[19:22] <Azelphur> maybe in natty it'll be available in the mouse settings dialog
[19:23] <jacobw> I'm interested, PM me
[19:23] <hamitron> what is "Super Hybrid Engine" in your Eee Azelphur?
[19:24] <Azelphur> no idea lol
[19:24] <mgdm> Do not taunt Super Hybrid Engine.
[19:25] <Azelphur> Super Hybrid Engine will Hybrid you :o
[19:40] <mgdm> In Super Russia, Engine Hybrids You.
[19:54] <hamitron> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/educational-diy-solar-powered-train-toy-54233
[19:54] <shauno> dominos website isn't very clever :(
[19:54] <hamitron> I want one with rails around the garden :/
[19:54] <shauno> Your local Domino's is: Galway - East, 16 Prospect Hill, Eyre Square, Galway Tel: 00353 91 566 100 (not your address?)
[19:54] <shauno> no, it's not my address.  it's domino's address.  /facepalm.
[20:00] <AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/
[20:02] <popey> wheee
[20:02] <suprengr> o/
[20:02] <phonex01> can i use cinema 4D on ubuntu ?
[20:02] <suprengr> ...and to podcast \o/
[20:03] <Azelphur> !blender | phonex01
[20:03] <Azelphur> phonex01: have you tried ^ ?
[20:04] <phonex01> blender is not the same as Cinema 4D ! ?
[20:04] <Azelphur> Cinema 4D is a 3D modelling tool, so is blender?
[20:04]  * AlanBell has never heard of cinema 4d
[20:04] <AlanBell> but blender is kinda cool
[20:04] <Azelphur> me either :P
[20:05] <phonex01> i use blender but i m asking about cinema 4D !
[20:05] <Azelphur> phonex01: We don't know anything about Cinema 4D, I assume they don't provide Linux support?
[20:05] <phonex01> i think so !
[20:06] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_4D wikipedia has heard of it
[20:06] <Azelphur> phonex01: I assume you want the latest version, R12?
[20:06] <phonex01> oh yah !
[20:06] <Azelphur> yea, it won't run under wine either apparently
[20:06] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Screenc4d2.jpg looks like blender
[20:07] <phonex01> thats it
[20:07] <AlanBell> people who write applications with too many buttons like grey it seems
[20:08] <Azelphur> phonex01: a quick google reveals some talk about a C4D version for Linux, you should look into that
[20:08] <Azelphur> but from a quick look it appears the answer is no :p
[20:09] <shauno> summary googling seems to indicate it ran on wine somewhere around v8, native was promised but never showed up
[20:10] <phonex01> forget about that !
[20:10] <phonex01> i will use it under windows
[20:10] <phonex01> no problem \1
[20:10] <phonex01> printf("%s"," Thank You");
[20:11] <Azelphur> lol
[20:11] <shauno> well, we really can't apologize for commercial software house's inability to do things with thousand-dollar products that nerds have done for free :)
[20:11] <phonex01> no problem man ! it is ok
[20:12] <phonex01> ok question number 2
[20:12] <phonex01> is there any way to hack WPA/ WPA2 without using a dictionary ?
[20:16] <MonsterKiller> Hello, i run Ubuntu server 10.10. How could i go about getting tasks to run on system start. i cant seem to find anything helpful on google.
[20:17] <jacobw> phonex01: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Access#Security_.26_Insecurity_in_pre-shared_key_mode
[20:17] <jacobw> Read and learn :)
[20:18] <phonex01> hahahahha
[20:18] <phonex01> jacobw ! are you serious ?
[20:18] <phonex01> by the way this is a good way to push some one to learn !
[20:19] <hamitron> MonsterKiller: you could monify scripts inside /etc/init.d
[20:19] <popey> hacking WPA is somewhat offtopic for this channel phonex01
[20:19] <MonsterKiller> hey hamitron. I have a script inside there to start ZNC for example, yet it does not seem to work.
[20:19] <phonex01> popey you always make me upset do you hate me ,,, is it personal  ?
[20:19] <popey> no
[20:19] <phonex01> are you sure about that ?
[20:20] <popey> yes
[20:20] <jacobw> If WPA2 was easy to crack it would have been replaced
[20:20]  * jacobw is also sure
[20:20] <popey> i would say the same if someone else asked the same question
[20:20] <popey> and have, multiple times
[20:20] <phonex01> but it is sill common !
[20:20] <popey> what is?
[20:20] <hamitron> MonsterKiller: best advice I can give is check the script works seperately after boot, check permissions and check it is referenced correctly from another script inside there
[20:20] <phonex01> i mean it is still common
[20:20] <phonex01> poey im talking to jacobw
[20:21] <popey> oh
[20:21] <phonex01> popey im kidding but i like to push people to be upset
[20:21] <popey> that wont get you far here
[20:21] <phonex01> hahahahah
[20:21] <popey> keep that up and you'll get kicked for trolling
[20:22] <phonex01> ok im sorry when you try to kick me let me know to say my final words
[20:22] <phonex01> take it as a human right !
[20:22] <MonsterKiller> hamitron, well thats the thing. I dont really know anything about it so idk how it should be set up :/
[20:22] <jacobw> Yes, its common because there's no known reliable attacks
[20:23] <AlanBell> phonex01: or alternatively just try not to get kicked
[20:23] <phonex01> ok AlanBell it is look like poey control the show here ?
[20:23] <jacobw> WEP was phased out for exactly that reason, there were reliable attacks
[20:23] <phonex01> ok peopey all respects for you
[20:23] <nucc1> the sun is rising.
[20:23] <hamitron> MonsterKiller: I normally copy an existing script like "ssh" and modify it to do as i want.... then add a line in rc.local to run it
[20:24] <phonex01> hi jacobw WEP now is just kids game !
[20:24] <nucc1> trolls will turn to rock.
[20:24] <phonex01> ok i have question
[20:24] <phonex01> my HD partition have lonnnnnng name
[20:24] <phonex01> something like
[20:24] <phonex01> 3DDER4RRFD
[20:24] <phonex01> how can i change that name ?
[20:25] <MonsterKiller> hamitron, okay. so rc.local is inside /etc right? also, would it be at all possible to get an example line for rc.local? would be much appreciated
[20:25] <mfraz74> that's probably just the UUID
[20:26] <mfraz74> and is unique to that hard drive
[20:26] <hamitron> MonsterKiller: another option is to start it when you login
[20:26] <MonsterKiller> hamitron, well i wanted the auto start so that if my server went offline and came back on again things would starts themself
[20:26] <nucc1> phonex01, System > Administration > Disk Utility allows one to edit filesystem labels.
[20:27] <hamitron> has to be on system startup then, so yeh
[20:27] <hamitron> if you call the script "ZNC" and put it inside /etc/init.d
[20:27] <phonex01> thank you nucc1
[20:28] <phonex01> sorry i mean printf("Thank you ");
[20:28] <nucc1> whatever.
[20:28] <hamitron> you could then put something like "sh /etc/init.d/ZNC start" inside the file /etc/init.d/rc.local
[20:29] <hamitron> or miss the "start" off if it is a simple script not needing it
[20:29] <MonsterKiller> oh okay. Thanks hamitron :) will try that
[20:29] <hamitron> the key is the znc script you make
[20:30] <hamitron> you may also want it to run as unprivilaged user
[20:30] <MonsterKiller> it only needs to run: su rob -c "znc"
[20:30] <hamitron> so be careful
[20:30] <MonsterKiller> so that would run its as a non-root user
[20:30] <MonsterKiller> it as*
[20:31] <AlanBell> live podcast starting right now
[20:31] <hamitron> good luck monster
[20:31] <hamitron> :)
[20:32] <MonsterKiller> :P thanks
[20:32] <jacobw> AlanBell: I knew there was a reason why I had my headphones on..
[20:32] <MonsterKiller> well, its seems to look more like /etc/rc.local than /etc/init.d/rc.local as the one in init.d looks like a script to run /etc/rc.local
[20:33] <shauno> yeah.  you edit /etc/rc.local
[20:34] <shauno> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/getting-started.html   isn't bad if you need a crash-course in upstart jobs.  /etc/rc.local is neat for avoiding upstart all together and just making it work
[20:34] <MonsterKiller> thanks then guys :) much appreciated
[20:35] <hamitron> oops ;)
[20:36]  * zleap has podcast on now
[20:36] <hamitron> for some reason, my vps has 2 rc.local files
[20:36] <hamitron> :/
[20:36] <hamitron> guessing it is a hard link
[20:37] <JGJones> Hi...
[20:37] <JGJones> the libavcodec-dev in main repo - is this the full source code?
[20:37] <JGJones> I mean...it can be compiled for h263 etc support?
[20:38] <daubers> Evening
[20:38] <hamitron> hi daubers
[20:39] <shauno> hamitron: there are two.  /etc/init.d/rc.local is the upstart job, that runs /etc/rc.local proper.  one's for you to populate, one's so the boot thingie actually does it.   lovely messy.
[20:39] <hamitron> ffs :/
[20:40] <hamitron> why not give them different names?
[20:40] <shauno> no idea :(
[20:40] <ali1234> because /etc/init.d/rc.local is under package manager control
[20:40] <ali1234> if you edited it it would bug you whenever there was an update
[20:41] <shauno> having them two separate files makes perfect sense.  giving them the same name makes describing things from memory iffy
[20:42] <Myrtti> *cough* language *cough*
[20:42] <hamitron> I wish you guys had said this before I gave bad advice ;)
[20:42] <shauno> heh, I was chasing the pizza guy because they can never find my house :/
[20:42] <hamitron> Myrtti: you got highlights on for my slipups? :/
[20:43] <hamitron> sorry (again) :\
[20:43] <shauno> but it's cool.  he looked at the two files and figured it out himself.  you got him looking in the right place.  win-win.
[20:43] <Myrtti> hamitron: no, I mention about slipups whenever I see them on Ubuntu IRC channels
[20:43] <Myrtti> not just you :-)
[20:43] <hamitron> I've never really modded the ubuntu files tbh
[20:44] <hamitron> Myrtti: such a relief :)
[20:45] <Myrtti> it's a reflex by now to be honest, been an op far too long
[20:46] <hamitron> I do try to be nice :) just I slip into my way of talking when i start hammering keys passionately
[20:46] <Myrtti> I've had to restrict myself lately in real life with the cussing, I've noticed that usually I just coax myself angrier when I cuss
[20:46] <Myrtti> and that's not good for my blood pressure
[20:47] <Myrtti> ooh, I forgot I could watch Wonders
[20:48] <hamitron> Wonders?
[20:48] <Myrtti> Wonders of the Universe
[20:48] <MonsterKiller> okay. so, the scripts work fine but non of the things i put in /etc/rc.local were run
[20:49] <MonsterKiller> i noticed /bin/sh /etc/init.d/rc 2 was run. idk if that has anything to do with it?
[20:49] <shauno> it's not often I say this, but leave that bit alone and don't break it :)
[20:50] <MonsterKiller> me?
[20:50] <MonsterKiller> :P
[20:50] <hamitron> and I will with-hold my advice, as I've been told off for encouraging wreckless actions before
[20:50] <hamitron> ;)
[20:50] <shauno> yeah.  running rc 2 is integral to the boot process
[20:51] <MonsterKiller> though is there a way to tell if /etc/rc.local was run and just errored?
[20:51] <shauno> I'm pretty sure you're looking for the command update-rc.d, but I don't know the exact incantation offhand
[20:51] <hamitron> has /etc/rc.local got the execute bit set?
[20:52] <MonsterKiller> some commented out stuff then: sh /etc/init.d/zncstart start exit 0
[20:53] <MonsterKiller> exit 0 is on a new line
[20:53] <hamitron> ls -l /etc/rc.local
[20:53] <hamitron> worth checking permissions
[20:53] <MonsterKiller> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 503 Mar 29 23:49 /etc/rc.local
[20:54] <hamitron> fine
[20:54] <hamitron> have you tried "sh /etc/rc.local"?
[20:54] <hamitron> as root ofc
[20:56] <shauno> one thing I'd check is that you're using absolute paths wherever possible.  upstart runs with a very basic (but predictable) environment set
[20:56] <MonsterKiller> yeah that seems to run everything
[20:58] <MonsterKiller> well, if im correct '/bin/sh /etc/init.d/rc 2' would mean its running on runlevel 2. so maybe put a link to /etc/rc.local in /etc/rc2.d
[20:58] <MonsterKiller> ?
[20:58] <shauno> eg, su rob -c "znc" will only work if znc is in /bin or /usr/bin.  if it's anywhere else, you'll want su rob -c "/the/full/path/to/znc"
[21:01] <hamitron> or setting the full path in the znc script
[21:01] <hamitron> inside "zncstart" I mean
[21:02] <shauno> and no promises $HOME is set so you might have to help it find any configuration files that aren't in the default places
[21:03] <MonsterKiller> well, i ran the scripts seperatly and they seemed to work
[21:03] <MonsterKiller> i tried the update-rc.d and got
[21:04] <MonsterKiller> update-rc.d: warning: zncstart start runlevel arguments (2 3 4 5) do not match LSB Default-Start values (2 3 5)
[21:04] <MonsterKiller> and one for stop too
[21:05] <hamitron> if the script zncstart is simple, maybe better to just include it all in /etc/rc.local
[21:05] <shauno> if they're just warnings, that may have worked
[21:09] <hamitron> all good fun
[21:09] <hamitron> :)
[21:16] <shauno> :(  I can't pause the podcast
[21:24] <msp301> exit
[21:55] <Safiyyah> hi
[21:55] <Safiyyah> Alanbell, popey, ali1234
[21:56] <ali1234> hi
[21:56] <Safiyyah> My system has crashed AGAIN, it happened after I loaded my USB mp3 player, it said something about it being read only and not being able to mount it
[21:56] <ali1234> as always i need to see the full log
[21:56] <Safiyyah> everything started freezing, and on reboot I got the black screen
[21:57] <Safiyyah> ali1234,  am on live disk
[21:57] <Safiyyah> but basically it couldnt not find root
[21:57] <Safiyyah> and complained about corrupted files on dev/sda2
[21:57] <AlanBell> hi Safiyyah
[21:57] <ali1234> sounds bad
[21:57] <AlanBell> ooh hat
[21:57] <AlanBell> thats better
[21:57] <Safiyyah> anyway... my problem is this is meerkat
[21:57] <Safiyyah> lucid crashed on me too
[21:58] <Safiyyah> it crashed after 4 months but it did the same thing
[21:58] <Safiyyah> I never experienced any such issues with previous ubuntu versions
[21:58] <ali1234> that sounds like a dying hard drive to me
[21:58] <Safiyyah> except intrepid... that seemed to have a mind of it's own
[21:59] <Safiyyah> it's only a year old
[22:00] <Safiyyah> so meerkat took 3 weeks and it crashed
[22:00] <Safiyyah> what do you all think?
[22:00] <Safiyyah> ali1234,  why would it be dying when it is only a year old
[22:00] <ali1234> sometimes they do
[22:01] <ali1234> you should run a filesystem check on all drives and then check dmesg for errors
[22:02] <willy_1977> 'ow do
[22:02] <Safiyyah> okay am on live disk so please direct me step by step ali1234
[22:02] <willy_1977> ali1234: saw your messages from last night about the gnome bug, thanks.
[22:03] <ali1234> sudo fsck /dev/sda2
[22:03] <ali1234> if it asks you if you want to repair say no for now
[22:03]  * willy_1977 misread fsck :o
[22:03] <ali1234> if it finishes, check dmesg
[22:05] <Safiyyah> ali1234,  am on it
[22:05] <Safiyyah> it seems stuck though
[22:06] <ali1234> it will take a long time
[22:06] <ali1234> it may also get stuck if the drive has physical errors
[22:06] <ali1234> open a new shell and check dmesg
[22:07] <ali1234> if you see a lot of lines like "end request: I/O error" it means the drive is broken
[22:07] <dogmatic69> anyone know about mcrypt? how does it work between servers etc
[22:07] <dogmatic69> will it always give the same value, no matter the server?
[22:09] <nucc1> i would expect it to, whenever you use the same parameters. but i've never used it before.
[22:11] <davmor2> czajkowski: poke, prod and general annoyance :P
[22:11] <moreati> davmor2: good evening
[22:12] <davmor2> moreati: morning
[22:12] <Safiyyah> okay I am done
[22:12] <Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/587063/
[22:13] <Safiyyah> Alanbell, popey, ali1234
[22:13] <ali1234> yeah, that looks bad
[22:14] <Safiyyah> ali1234,  which lines?
[22:14] <ali1234> line 321 to the end
[22:15] <ali1234> ata3 is sda
[22:15] <Safiyyah> okay so first things first
[22:15] <ali1234> what did fsck say?
[22:15] <Safiyyah> I need to back up evolution
[22:16] <Safiyyah> ali1234,  I can't remember, running it again ... will paste bin it
[22:16] <ali1234> no
[22:16] <ali1234> don't run it again
[22:16] <ali1234> you risk making the errors worse
[22:16] <Safiyyah> okay is there a way to mount the drives
[22:17] <ali1234> you can try to mount it read only
[22:17] <ali1234> however anything you do with the drive will make it worse
[22:17] <ali1234> like driving a car with no oil in the engine
[22:17] <Safiyyah> I don't care about worse right now
[22:18] <Safiyyah> I want to back up home directory
[22:18] <Safiyyah> and get out
[22:18] <Safiyyah> are u running meerkat btw?
[22:18] <ali1234> sure
[22:18] <moreati> ali1234: time for dd_rescue?
[22:19] <ali1234> trouble with dd_recsue is you need another drive with more freespace than the broken drive
[22:19] <ali1234> do you have that?
[22:19] <Safiyyah> am searching the net for a new HDD as we speak
[22:19] <Safiyyah> I have an external drive plugged in and ready
[22:19] <Safiyyah> got 500gb
[22:19] <ali1234> how much free space? how big is the internal?
[22:19] <Safiyyah> 500gb
[22:20] <Safiyyah> but lets say we actually have 400gb since I have used some
[22:20] <ali1234> and how big is the internal drive?
[22:20] <Safiyyah> the size of my home dir is 100gb and it isn't used up
[22:20] <Safiyyah> internal is 500gb as well
[22:20] <Azelphur> hey Safiyyah, havn't seen you about in a while :)
[22:21] <Safiyyah> hey Azelphur.... you know am only here when I have a problem :P
[22:21] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:21] <moreati> Safiyyah: the critical question is how big is your home _partition_, because dd_rescue doesn't understand unused space
[22:21] <Safiyyah> moreati, its 100gb
[22:22] <ali1234> that is sda2?
[22:23] <willy_1977> anyone got any advice: I want to start hacking on some of the bugs I've picked up, I'm happy writing code and compiling but the issue I have is where do I start with source control and branches, and how much do I need to worry about upstream/downstream I am sure I am not the first person to come into this and get these kind of issues I just want to get going but as yet have turned up blank on a beginners type guide to this stuff? So the question is
[22:23] <willy_1977>  can anyone point me in that direction or has anyone got any time to get me going on a nice easy bug?
[22:23] <phonex01_> hi
[22:23] <phonex01_> how can i install vmware ?
[22:23] <willy_1977> is it not in the software centre phonex01_ ?
[22:23] <Azelphur> !virtualbox | phonex01_
[22:24] <Azelphur> phonex01_: tried ^ ?
[22:24] <nucc1> Azelphur, he asked for vmware.
[22:24] <phonex01_> no no man
[22:24] <nucc1> i was about to say that the vmware installer should have instructions...
[22:24] <Azelphur> nucc1: yea, but foss alternatives are nice to recommend :)
[22:24] <phonex01_> it is not virtual box !
[22:24] <phonex01_> VMware is not the same as virtulabox
[22:24] <Azelphur> phonex01_: yea but have you tried it? virtualbox is actually very nice and a lot of people use it instead of vmware
[22:24] <silner> I'm not nearly as happy about Vbox now Oracle are running the show :(
[22:24] <phonex01_> yes im using it
[22:24] <Azelphur> ok
[22:24] <nucc1> Azelphur, not necessarily true when someone asks for a specific bit. besides, the OSE VirtualBox is crippled anyway :p
[22:24] <Azelphur> then go google instructions for vmware :P
[22:24] <phonex01_> but i have been told that VMwre is stronger ?
[22:25] <phonex01_> and provide more options
[22:25] <Azelphur> matter of opinion *shrug* I prefer virtualbox
[22:25] <nucc1> vmware is actually better.
[22:25] <ali1234> Safiyyah: pastebin the output of sudo fdisk -l please
[22:25] <willy_1977> virtualbox ++ for me...
[22:25] <nucc1> but virtualbox works well enough.
[22:25] <Safiyyah> i don't get why I can't drug and drop from sda4
[22:25] <Safiyyah> there are 2 files  I want from that
[22:25] <Safiyyah> plus the home dir
[22:26] <Azelphur> !vmware | phonex01_
[22:26] <ali1234> nucc1: OSE isn;t actually that crippled any more - eg it has usb support now
[22:26] <willy_1977> phonex01_ try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Server
[22:26] <willy_1977> oh
[22:26] <Azelphur> he left xD
[22:26] <nucc1> ali1234, really? i added the upstream repository a while back and stopped tracking OSE
[22:27] <ali1234> nucc1: um yes... in 4.0.4 at least
[22:27] <Azelphur> so yea I just sold my netbook, I wanna get a tablet/netbook convertible, any suggestions? :D I'd like it to be minecraft capable if possible
[22:27] <Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/587074/
[22:27] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: ipad :)
[22:27] <Safiyyah> Could my processor be dying too?
[22:28] <nucc1> wepad
[22:28] <ali1234> dunno about other features, usb is the only one i missed
[22:28] <ali1234> Safiyyah: no
[22:28] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: how does that fit any of the requirements...at all? XD
[22:28] <ali1234> Safiyyah: ok let's see /etc/fstab as well please
[22:28] <willy_1977> dogmatic69: you owe me a new keyboard this one has now got tea in it...
[22:28] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: its ~= tablet
[22:28] <dogmatic69> willy_1977: lol
[22:28] <silner> Most of the extra features Vmware has doesn't seem to be aimed at the average user
[22:28] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: and you can hack minecraft onto it afaik
[22:29] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: it's not a netbook tablet convertible, it can't run minecraft or Ubuntu, it's specs are crap, in general it's crap. Have I said crap enough yet? :P
[22:29] <nucc1> silner, the ability to drag files from the host onto the guest is quite average user awesomeness to me.
[22:29] <ali1234> Azelphur: obviously you need an ipad 2
[22:29] <willy_1977> ali1234: lol
[22:29] <Azelphur> OBVIOUSLY.
[22:29] <hamitron> :/
[22:29] <Safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/587077/
[22:30] <ali1234> but seriously though, it's going to have to be tegra, cos minecraft gets about 2 fps on pinetrail
[22:30] <silner> nucc1, Did that arrive in later versions? Didn't think that was in 6 (last version I owned)
[22:30] <Safiyyah> guys HELP the poor one over here please
[22:30] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: ipad is pretty good, 2 should be better. it can run ubuntu and minecraft from what ive seen
[22:30] <willy_1977> do you folks think my dev query would be better suited to a mailing list?
[22:30] <ali1234> Safiyyah: damn i forgot you are on livecd
[22:30] <Azelphur> dogmatic69: your forgetting the part where you can get better hardware for half the price
[22:30] <Safiyyah> if I could log in, I would have backed up my data before having this conversation
[22:30] <Safiyyah> lol
[22:30] <willy_1977> proper intro and all that?
[22:31] <nucc1> on vmware server, can't remember the version, but saw it as far back as july 2010.
[22:31]  * hamitron is using livecd atm, because he doesn't know how to use MS Windows :/
[22:31] <Azelphur> willy_1977: maybe
[22:31] <Safiyyah> lol hamitron
[22:31] <silner> nucc1, Oh I haven't used it that recently
[22:31] <ali1234> Safiyyah: sudo apt-get install dd_rescue
[22:31] <hamitron> Safiyyah: wish i was joking :D
[22:31] <ali1234> Safiyyah:actually sudo apt-get install ddrescue
[22:32] <Safiyyah> can you explain why we simply can't mount the drives and copy the specific files I am after
[22:32] <silner> nucc1, might be worth looking at again, since the free player now installs systems as well as plays them - so I read anyway
[22:32] <Safiyyah> its is literally evolution mail
[22:32] <ali1234> Safiyyah: because as soon as you start using the drive it will give out hundreds of errors and then crash
[22:32] <silner> nucc1, only free as in freeware of course
[22:32] <nucc1> silner, but nowadays, virtualbox works well enough for my usecases, and is only an apt-get away.
[22:32] <nucc1> silner, oh, i tend to use the version that works well, regardless of the License :p
[22:32] <Safiyyah> so we will have to rescue and then I can delete what I didn't want?
[22:32] <willy_1977> Azelphur: thanks, I'll give it a go in the morning - did post an irc in ubuntu-devel which I thought was general but people in there were busy so I'll keep digging I'm sure I'll get there it'll just take me longer :D
[22:33] <ali1234> Safiyyah: no it doesn;t work like that
[22:33] <Safiyyah> okay can you please explain what is going to happen?
[22:33] <ali1234> Safiyyah: also ddrescue operation could take several hours
[22:34] <ali1234> the whole partition will be copied to a working drive but while skipping errors
[22:34] <silner> I don't virtualise much now - haven't needed to since OO got good enough at opening MSO files - and LO seems to be just as good in that respect
[22:34] <ali1234> then you will run fsck on it to repair the working copy
[22:34] <ali1234> then you will mount the repaired image and copy files
[22:34] <Safiyyah> okay
[22:34]  * willy_1977 is liking the new group your tabs thingy in FF4! and it's sped up somewhere so I guess my initial reservations were unfounded sorry FF4!
[22:34] <Safiyyah> then I will be able to log in normally?
[22:34] <ali1234> no
[22:35] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: the battery life is awesome too, 10+ hours
[22:35] <nucc1> silner, libreoffice still doesn't work well for ooxml files. and every once in a while, you come across something that has to be done on windows. My Virgin Media subscription for isntance, required me to run some silly software from windows in order to activate.
[22:35] <nucc1> not to mention using Nokia PC suite
[22:35] <hamitron> nucc1: your own fault for not using a proper ISP then
[22:35] <hamitron> ;)
[22:36] <nucc1> hamitron, virgin media gives the best deal around.
[22:36] <willy_1977> right bed is calling g'night; as ever thanks for your useful input folks.
[22:36] <Safiyyah> so if we don't get to go in and do a proper backup
[22:36] <nucc1> no line rental nonsense.
[22:36] <Safiyyah> what's the point
[22:36] <silner> I tend to check with ISPs now and tell them I need it to be setup without using Windows
[22:36] <ali1234> nucc1: you never used to have to run the VM installer
[22:36] <hamitron> it is "the best" if you can't use it without paying £££ for winblows
[22:36] <silner> Phones are an issue though
[22:36] <Safiyyah> am also not understanding why pluggin in my mp3 player brought all this about
[22:36] <ali1234> nucc1: if you just plug in the modem and try to use it it takes you to the provisioning website which you can use manually
[22:36] <silner> I can't use most of my phone's software unless I used Windows
[22:37] <nucc1> ali1234, it refused to work in firefox in ubuntu.
[22:37] <hamitron> certain hardware devices like phones, specilist programs and games
[22:37] <silner> I don't bother - I'm not much of a phone user anyway
[22:37] <ali1234> nucc1: find it hard to believe, i always used to do it from my firewall using lynx
[22:38] <nucc1> ali1234, it didn't work for me. had to do it from IE in Windows.
[22:38] <ali1234> Safiyyah: it didn't
[22:38] <nucc1> silner, its one of the arcane reasons why i use Nokia phones. they use industry standards for most of their functionality.
[22:38] <MonsterKiller> hey. so my rc.local file doesnt seem to be being run on system startup. the /etc/rc.local script runs fine and starts everything if i run it manually
[22:39] <Safiyyah> so it was happening before and we didnt realise last time it broke?
[22:39] <ali1234> probably
[22:39] <MonsterKiller> cant work out whats wrong
[22:39] <Safiyyah> u realise u guys helped me less than a month ago?
[22:39] <ali1234> that was a totally different problem
[22:39] <Safiyyah> still a broken system
[22:39] <ali1234> not really
[22:40] <Safiyyah> okay so is there a HDD drive brand I need to buy
[22:40] <Safiyyah> cos this one lasted a year
[22:40] <ali1234> no
[22:40] <Safiyyah> A YEARRRRR
[22:40] <ali1234> not maxtor
[22:40] <nucc1> he he
[22:40] <nucc1> ++^^
[22:40]  * hamitron liked maxtor
[22:40] <hamitron> :/
[22:40] <Safiyyah> shortest lived ever!!
[22:40] <nucc1> seagate rocks.
[22:40] <ali1234> btw after recovering your data you should attempt to RMA it with the manufacturer
[22:40] <ali1234> they all give at least 1 year guarantee, some give 3 or 5 years
[22:40] <Safiyyah> do you think the large space is what is making them die fast
[22:41] <ali1234> larger drives tend to die faster yes
[22:41] <silner> nucc1, ali1234 With setting up ISP I just asked them the settings and ip address of the router webpage and set it up manually
[22:41] <ali1234> high performance, shorter lifespan
[22:41] <silner> It doesn't take very long
[22:41] <hamitron> to fit more into less space, each section must get smaller
[22:41] <silner> Maybe Virgin is especially hard?
[22:41] <Safiyyah> so what size is a good size in order to avoud sudden death?
[22:42]  * AlanBell waves http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/03/29/ubuntu-uk-virtual-jam/ and http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/globaljam2011
[22:42] <hamitron> I'd just go with a seagate one at around 40 quid
[22:42] <hamitron> ;)
[22:42] <ali1234> Safiyyah: the trick to buying harddrives is x = price / capacity and then take the one with lowest x
[22:43] <hamitron> or hitachi or samsung
[22:43] <nucc1> silner, configuring the router is easy enough, most routers do DHCP. thing is, the connection won't work until you visit some special activation page and do some stuff. i forget. was 6 months ago.
[22:43] <ali1234> but not maxtor
[22:43] <nucc1> hitachi works quite well too.
[22:43] <hamitron> not maxtor, no :) and I have a personal dislike of WD
[22:43] <awilkins> I've had a couple of 750GB samsung spinpoints that have survived near constant use in an underventilated case for going on 5 or 6 years now
[22:43] <nucc1> WD makes "proprietary" drives :p
[22:43] <silner> nucc1, I think I read you could do the virgin activation over the phone, no?
[22:44] <nucc1> silner, yea, i learnt that a bit late :p
[22:44] <hamitron> nucc1: if only they didn't seem to die on me ALL the time
[22:44] <awilkins> With Virgin all you seem to have to do is reboot the CM with the right MAC connected to it
[22:44] <Safiyyah> i actually had a good experience with maxtor
[22:44] <Safiyyah> for several years
[22:44]  * hamitron too
[22:44] <awilkins> If you switch network adapter on it, you need to reboot the modem
[22:44] <Safiyyah> then it just poof died
[22:44] <ali1234> maxtors are highly variable
[22:44] <hamitron> I am on maxtor drives now
[22:44] <hamitron> :)
[22:44] <ali1234> my oldest working harddrive is a maxtor
[22:45] <nucc1> seagate here.
[22:45] <silner> same here ali1234
[22:45] <ali1234> but of all my drives, maxtors had the highest failure rate
[22:45] <hamitron> my newer ones are seagate
[22:45] <silner> ali1234, Well I say working but at 8GB I can't really use it any more :)
[22:45] <hamitron> I have had 4 WD drives, and all failed in warrenty \o/
[22:45] <ali1234> yeah i think mine is 8Gb too, must have been a good year
[22:46] <hamitron> 1 even left a 3cm dent in a case :)
[22:47] <hamitron> do samsung support hotplug?
[22:47] <nucc1> does the port support hot-plug?
[22:48] <hamitron> some
[22:48] <hamitron> ;/
[22:48] <nucc1> those IDE ports... wait, PCs still use IDE right? :p
[22:48] <hamitron> just don't unmount the drive with the OS on....
[22:48] <nucc1> you live dangerously.
[22:49] <awilkins> I run off a USB drive at work and sometimes the cable jiggle unmounts it
[22:49] <awilkins> Most irritating. But still more productive than Windows
[22:49] <hamitron> sata2 hd caddy ftw ;)
[22:49] <nucc1> awilkins, lol.
[22:49] <ali1234> i think all sata drives support hotplug... not sure though
[22:49] <awilkins> Can't boot of anything but first SATA port
[22:50] <awilkins> And the case doesn't support standard 3.5" bay modules, or I would have already fitted one
[22:50] <Safiyyah> hamitron WD is which company?
[22:50] <nucc1> linux would rule the universe if only flash video was HW accelerated :/
[22:50] <ali1234> western digital
[22:50] <awilkins> Have to boot machine to Windows once a week to get DHCP lease also
[22:51] <Safiyyah> nucc1 IDE... you might get 1 or 2 ports on the motherboard nowadays but everything is SATA now
[22:51] <AlanBell> nucc1: so you are saying that open source would be wonderful if the closed source stuff was better
[22:51] <awilkins> I might try an eSata cable and a thumbdrive with GRUB on it
[22:51] <nucc1> AlanBell, i've come to realise that some things will never be opensource. i don't try to fight it.
[22:51] <hamitron> awilkins: demand usb3
[22:51] <hamitron> :)
[22:51] <AlanBell> nucc1: sure, me neither
[22:51] <hamitron> "I really can't work with this *, I need....."
[22:52] <nucc1> AlanBell, and the wackness of flash makes it impossible for me to use my lovefilm subscription.
[22:52] <nucc1> forces me to boot my ps3, and i hate having sony watch my every move.
[22:52] <hamitron> is SSD more reliable?
[22:52] <awilkins> hamitron, They ask stupid questions
[22:52] <Safiyyah> ali1234,  i would like to mount the drive and copy my files over :)
[22:52] <hamitron> SSD seems cheaper now
[22:52] <awilkins> hamitron, Like "Why do you need 6GB of RAM when we only issue a 32-bit OS?"
[22:53] <Safiyyah> there is nothing am saving anyway the thing is dead
[22:53] <nucc1> awilkins, who asks such?
[22:53] <awilkins> hamitron, 128GB SSD, was £120 at purchase but price has come down
[22:53] <awilkins> nucc1, IT services, when you ask for more RAM
[22:53] <ali1234> Safiyyah: did you install ddrescue yet?
[22:53] <hamitron> 128Gb is plenty
[22:53] <nucc1> awilkins, where did you find an SSD for 120 quid?
[22:53] <hamitron> get SSD for 60 quid ;/
[22:53] <awilkins> Might be 64GB
[22:54] <nucc1> awilkins, everybody likes to feel important :)
[22:54] <MonsterKiller> 64GB for £60
[22:54] <MonsterKiller> :O
[22:54] <hamitron> just not the best
[22:54] <nucc1> 64G is too small.
[22:54] <awilkins> Kingston, mine is
[22:54] <MonsterKiller> 64GB are like £100
[22:54] <awilkins> 64GB is ok
[22:54] <nucc1> not enough for my music
[22:54] <MonsterKiller> haha
[22:54] <awilkins> Music is ~ 12GB
[22:54] <awilkins> But for that I use a thumbdrive
[22:54] <awilkins> Don't need lightning speed for music
[22:54] <awilkins> Or any streaming media
[22:54] <hamitron> I think it was 32 or 64Gb
[22:55] <awilkins> Hell, get an SD card, most laptops have a slot now
[22:55] <Safiyyah> we are no rescuing anything
[22:55] <Safiyyah> not*
[22:55] <nucc1> awilkins, i don't like having to plug any drives in order to access some files. might as well just use cloud storage.
[22:56] <nucc1> but they cost too much.
[22:56] <hamitron> 30 quid for a 8gb ssd
[22:56] <hamitron> :D
[22:56] <Safiyyah> how much is cloud storage?
[22:56] <awilkins> nucci : If I was using an SD card I'd just keep it plugged in the slot
[22:56] <Safiyyah> its' time I got cloud storage for real
[22:56] <hamitron> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/248352
[22:56] <Safiyyah> ded hard drives are becoming a pain
[22:56] <nucc1> Safiyyah, to get the amount i need, it would cost less to just get a NAS
[22:56] <awilkins> nucc1, It sits nice and flush with the case
[22:57] <awilkins> I only dig the kind of cloud storage that's a backup for local storage
[22:57] <awilkins> Pure cloud can sod off.
[22:57] <nucc1> i don't buy that cloud hoopla either.
[22:57]  * hamitron neither
[22:57] <nucc1> i don't want to keep paying over and over for my stuff.
[22:57] <hamitron> anyone tried these hybrid drives?
[22:58] <awilkins> There was a ZDNet editor on radio 4 this PM hyping it up
[22:58] <nucc1> hybrid should be an improvement. hamitron, which one?
[22:58] <awilkins> "You don't want to be carrying hard drives everywhere"
[22:58] <hamitron> seagate
[22:58] <ali1234> well you don't
[22:58] <nucc1> awilkins, i need symmetric bandwidth from my ISP so i can leave my laptop always on.
[22:58] <nucc1> and run my own cloud :)
[22:58] <ali1234> Safiyyah: you can try to mount the drive if you want
[22:59] <nucc1> awilkins, it's what i currently do. grab my files by SSH-ing into my PC at home :)
[22:59] <hamitron> nucc1: that just means they slow down your download speed and charge you for doing so
[22:59] <Safiyyah> okay let me know how to mount from live disk please
[22:59] <hamitron> ;)
[22:59] <awilkins> Yeah, but cloud storage is only economic for small amounts of relatively small files, or you end up spending mucho deniro on either cloudspace or bandwidth
[22:59] <ali1234> Safiyyah: sudo mkdir /media/home; sudo mount /dev/sda4 /media/home
[23:00] <nucc1> ubuntu live CDs normally automount that stuff, right?
[23:00] <Safiyyah> guys what do you think of this HDD http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-HD103SJ-internal-SATAII-7200RPM/dp/B002MQC0P8/ref=sr_1_cc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1301435673&sr=1-2-catcorr
[23:00] <hamitron> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/233258
[23:00] <hamitron> I'd go for lower rpm unless you really need high performance
[23:00] <awilkins> $30 per year for 20GB is going to get expensive real fast compared to a few 2.5" hard drives
[23:00] <Safiyyah> ali why is it sda4
[23:01] <Safiyyah> am sure home is on sda3 or 2
[23:01] <ali1234> Safiyyah: try sda2 then
[23:02] <nucc1> Safiyyah, is that a laptop HDD???
[23:02] <Safiyyah> nucci no a PC
[23:02] <nucc1> err, no
[23:03] <Safiyyah> ali1234
[23:03] <Safiyyah> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo mount /dev/sda3 /media/home
[23:03] <Safiyyah> mount: you must specify the filesystem type
[23:03] <Safiyyah> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$
[23:03] <awilkins> Safiyyah, use sudo fdisk -l to list available drives
[23:04] <ali1234> awilkins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/587074/
[23:04] <hamitron> Safiyyah: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/177466
[23:04] <awilkins> Or have we already done that
[23:04] <awilkins> Aha
[23:04] <hamitron> just shop around really :/
[23:05] <matti> issyl0: You alive?
[23:05] <awilkins> Safiyyah, You trying to recover files from the Windows dirve?
[23:05] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/ wow, no bbc
[23:05] <Azelphur> Anyone here got a dell inspiron duo? :)
[23:05] <ali1234> Safiyyah: from your paste, sda1 is /boot, sda2 ir /, sda3 is swap, sda4 is /home
[23:05] <nucc1> he he
[23:06] <nucc1> AlanBell, maybe they're moving to manchester by train :p
[23:06] <ali1234> sorry, sda3 is extended, sda5 is swap
[23:06] <ali1234> Azelphur: i tried one in a shop, it's nice
[23:06] <Azelphur> ali1234: cool :D
[23:06] <ali1234> Azelphur: the screen flip around method is very nice and stable
[23:06] <Azelphur> nice
[23:06] <Azelphur> reckon it could do minecraft? :)
[23:07] <ali1234> dunno, what graphics does it have?
[23:07] <hamitron> RAM is the main thing
[23:07] <hamitron> ;/
[23:07] <awilkins> Not sure Minecraft even uses accelerated graphics...
[23:07] <Safiyyah> awilkins, no my ubuntu drive
[23:07] <ali1234> it does
[23:07] <Safiyyah> ali1234 i can now see the dir
[23:07] <awilkins> \O/
[23:08] <Safiyyah> but it wont allow me to copy of paste apparently I don't have rights
[23:08] <matti> ;]
[23:08] <Azelphur> ali1234: Intel GMA 3150
[23:08] <ali1234> Safiyyah: you must do it on shell with sudo then
[23:08] <directhex> awilkins, minecraft is pretty system-heavy
[23:08] <directhex> it uses a LOT of opengl
[23:08] <awilkins> Fairy snuff
[23:08] <Safiyyah> blody hell
[23:08] <Safiyyah> okay so it is dev sda 2 going to external hDD
[23:09] <Safiyyah> this will be interesting.... how do you do that on a terminal
[23:09] <awilkins> Safiyyah, Any number of ways :-)
[23:09] <awilkins> What file system is the external HD?
[23:09] <awilkins> Is it the NTFS drive?
[23:09] <ali1234> it does't matter
[23:10] <ali1234> just open in in nautilus
[23:10] <nucc1> hamitron, http://www.ebuyer.com/product/222310
[23:10] <ali1234> then you will have a corresponding folder in /media
[23:10] <ali1234> then copy the files/folders with sudo cp -a
[23:10] <awilkins> You can open nautilus from the command line with sudo to get a privileged nautilus
[23:11] <ali1234> that would work too
[23:11] <ali1234> gksudo nautilus
[23:11] <hamitron> nucc1: also tempting :)
[23:11] <hamitron> but tbh, I'd rather go small and fast
[23:11] <ali1234> i'm still pretty sure that sda2 is / and so /home will be empty
[23:12] <hamitron> so corsair hdd all the way for me
[23:12] <hamitron> :)
[23:12] <awilkins> is sda1 not root and sda4 some other data partition?
[23:12] <Azelphur> ali1234: did you hear the graphics card on the inspiron duo? :)
[23:12] <Azelphur> you was going to give me your opinion on minecraft :p
[23:12] <ali1234> Azelphur: yeah, it will probably not be great
[23:13] <Azelphur> I see
[23:13] <hamitron> minecraft struggled in vmware workstation :/
[23:13]  * awilkins wonders if VirtualBox would work OK with it because it at least tries to provide access to accelerator featues
[23:14] <hamitron> doesn't vmware?
[23:14] <hamitron> :/
[23:14] <ali1234> minecraft is java
[23:14] <ali1234> why would you want to run it in vmware?
[23:14] <hamitron> if vmware worked, I'd run everything in virtual machines
[23:14] <hamitron> then leave the host OS naked
[23:14] <Safiyyah> i don't know what file system my external disk has
[23:15] <Safiyyah> i have just always copied and pasted to it
[23:15] <awilkins> Why not run Java in vmware?
[23:15] <ali1234> because there is no point?
[23:15] <nucc1> java runs fine in linux
[23:15] <hamitron> my host OS is windows...
[23:15] <hamitron> ;)
[23:15] <MonsterKiller> lol
[23:15] <hamitron> and we all know what happens when you install too much on windows
[23:15] <hamitron> \o/
[23:16] <nucc1> the question is, why is your host OS windows. but i guess we don't need to know.
[23:16] <hamitron> games
[23:16] <hamitron> ;/
[23:16] <MonsterKiller> anyone able to help me with rc.local? it still doesnt seem to run on system startup.
[23:16] <ali1234> gaimz
[23:16] <Safiyyah> ali1234,  how do I copy these files???
[23:16] <nucc1> MonsterKiller, how so?
[23:16] <ali1234> Safiyyah: gksudo nautilus
[23:16] <awilkins> I have a VM for VB6 developement (don't ask) and it's snappier than the host machine it runs in because it's free of all the cruftware
[23:16] <ali1234> then use that window to copy them
[23:16] <Safiyyah> thank you
[23:16] <MonsterKiller> none of the things in the rc.local run when the system starts but if i run the rc.local manually they all run fine
[23:17] <MonsterKiller> using ubuntu server 10.10
[23:17] <hamitron> MonsterKiller: cat /etc/init.d/rc.local |less
[23:17] <nucc1> MonsterKiller, odd one there. don't think i can help much. i thought perhaps you had faulty commands in them.
[23:17] <Safiyyah> it's working.... yeiiiii
[23:17] <Safiyyah> I can breathe
[23:17] <hamitron> check it is setup to run
[23:17] <Safiyyah> right time to install flash and start living in live disk mode for today
[23:18] <hamitron> also check execution bit is set on /etc/init.d/rc.local
[23:18] <MonsterKiller> http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbjhwhbjzhbjrr and i have an /etc/rc.local http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbjhwhbkkkhwez
[23:18] <MonsterKiller> if i run them manually they work fine
[23:18] <Safiyyah> ali1234, hamitron what was the verdict on the HDD I chose?
[23:18] <Safiyyah> I am concerned about it being 1TB
[23:19] <hamitron> you can't get a small hdd now
[23:19] <nucc1> unless you want to buy a used one.
[23:19] <hamitron> :/
[23:19] <awilkins> Fewer platters is probably the closest you get to "small"
[23:19] <hamitron> so imo, 1Tb is a good choice for capacity, unless you want to consider SSD
[23:19] <awilkins> Less strain on the old motors
[23:20] <nucc1> do SSDs do wear levelling on their own, or do you still need to use special filesystems?
[23:20] <Safiyyah> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004J35JZ0/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&s=computers&psc=1
[23:20] <Safiyyah> or this other one
[23:20] <awilkins> nucc1, They wear level themselves. It helps if your OS supports TRIM commands (newer ones do)
[23:20] <Safiyyah> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-Barracuda-7200-12-Internal-7200RPM/dp/B001IKKCLS/ref=sr_1_cc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1301435673&sr=1-1-catcorr
[23:20] <MonsterKiller> i also tried putting the command in /etc/init.d/rc.local and they didnt run
[23:21] <Safiyyah> samsung vs seagate?
[23:21] <MonsterKiller> commands*
[23:21] <nucc1> awilkins, in terms of Linux (perhaps ubuntu versions), what does newer mean?
[23:21] <awilkins> nucc1, Linux has had TRIM support much longer than Windows has
[23:21] <directhex> get the samsung!
[23:21] <directhex> i've always liked their spinning discs.
[23:22] <nucc1> awilkins, he he. i only use windows in a VM. I guess i'd be aiming for an SSD then.
[23:22] <awilkins> nucc1, Since february 2010
[23:22] <nucc1> i have always feared to spend so much money on a drive that may not last as long as a cheaper spinning disk.
[23:22] <hamitron> directhex: how hot do you find they get?
[23:22] <awilkins> Win 7 supported it in October 2009 but I don't count that as more recent because no-one in corporations had it then :-)
[23:22] <directhex> hamitron, cool to the touch
[23:23] <hamitron> my maxtors breath fire
[23:23] <hamitron> :(
[23:23] <directhex> hamitron, samsung are VERY conservative with platter density compared to the competition
[23:23] <directhex> hamitron, so they don't get as hot
[23:23] <hamitron> directhex: wanna try hotplug for me?
[23:23] <hamitron> ;)
[23:23] <directhex> not on my root drive, no
[23:23] <hamitron> it is my latest craze
[23:23] <Safiyyah> wth is an SSD?
[23:24] <hamitron> solid state drive
[23:24] <nucc1> a flash drive shaped to look like a hard drive :p
[23:24] <awilkins> nucc1, Been running a Kingston SSD as a development box running a lot of data-heavy workloads for at least a year now and no failures yet :-)
[23:25] <directhex> hamitron, i have two samsungs in here, a 1T root disk, and a 2T disk i transferred my home server's contents onto when i decommissioned it
[23:25] <awilkins> nucc1, All the SMART data basically says "nothing wrong with this at all"
[23:25] <Safiyyah> waitttt a minute
[23:25] <Safiyyah> SSD on wikipedia sounds good
[23:25] <nucc1> awilkins, ah, smart data only says something is wrong *when* the drive fails :))
[23:25] <Safiyyah> so what was the reason I should get a HDD instead of a SSD?
[23:25] <nucc1> Safiyyah, cost and capacity.
[23:25] <hamitron> directhex: do you find you have hdd dedicated to "old files" like me? ;D
[23:25] <AlanBell> SSD is smaller and more expensive
[23:25] <awilkins> Safiyyah, Price ; SSDs cost much money for the space
[23:26] <AlanBell> however go for it if you want one
[23:26] <HazRPG> \o
[23:26] <awilkins> Safiyyah, OTOH, they are lightning fast (especially at accessing lots of small files in comparison to a spinny disk)
[23:26] <awilkins> Safiyyah, Good for e.g. Java development where lots of JAR files need loading
[23:27] <hamitron> not so good if you like a large collection of blue movies ;/
[23:27] <awilkins> Safiyyah, Good if you need silent, or cool running. No point if you want to archive TBs of media
[23:27] <directhex> Safiyyah, a 500GB HDD is £30, a 500GB SSD is £1050
[23:27] <nucc1> hamitron, why would anyone want to store movies with colour coding issues?
[23:27] <awilkins> Safiyyah, Durable also - very good as a portable drive. Killed about 3 x 2.5" spinny laptop drives in a year. SSD has been dropped roughly at least 5 times and hasn't skipped a beat
[23:28] <hamitron> nucc1: hehe
[23:28] <nucc1> :p
[23:28] <Safiyyah> lol so basically... wait till they get cheaper
[23:28] <hamitron> would a SSD be good in a USB 3.0 enclosure?
[23:28] <nucc1> Safiyyah, i've been waiting for 2 years :p
[23:28] <nucc1> still too expensive
[23:28] <Safiyyah> they are great but expensive
[23:28] <awilkins> Safiyyah, depends on your cost / benefit
[23:28] <Safiyyah> lol nucc1 what size are you waiting for
[23:28] <directhex> ref: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/500gb-hitachi-0f10381-deskstar7k1000c-sata-3gb-s-7200-rpm-16mb-cache-85-ms versus http://www.scan.co.uk/products/480gb-ocz-technology-ibis-series-hsdl-sandforce-1222-read-740mb-s-write-720mb-s-120k-iops
[23:29] <nucc1> Safiyyah, 256GB.
[23:29] <awilkins> For my purposes (portable drive for Java development) the £120 for 64GB was well worth it
[23:29] <hamitron> the SSD I want is 90 quid
[23:29] <hamitron> :)
[23:29] <awilkins> Already paid for itself in terms of not-being-dead like the spinning disks were
[23:29] <Safiyyah> nucci thats 250 quid at amazon
[23:30] <nucc1> if i choose to downgrade to 64G, i'd have to invest in some NAS in order to keep my media accessible. the costs stack up.
[23:30] <awilkins> Never mind that they had 500GB of space - I wasn't using it all anyway
[23:30] <AlanBell> night all o/
[23:30] <nucc1> nighty
[23:30] <hamitron> nn AB
[23:30] <AlanBell> do feel free to propose sessions for Saturday -> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/globaljam2011
[23:30] <hamitron> nucc1: yeh, guess I have collected loads of other junk to store stuff on :)
[23:31] <Safiyyah> directhex,  i think you had extra money to burn and i dont
[23:31] <Safiyyah> right back to reality
[23:31] <Safiyyah> aka HDD.... SDD = dreaming
[23:31] <Safiyyah> SSD*
[23:31] <nucc1> Safiyyah, just get the 1TB drive and put your PC to sleep when it's idle :)
[23:31] <Daviey> oh wow, BBC's new website is awesome.
[23:31] <hamitron> awilkins: does this one outperform yours? http://www.ebuyer.com/product/233258
[23:32] <Safiyyah> okay
[23:32] <nucc1> Daviey, lol
[23:32] <awilkins> hamitron, Very likely, yes, mine's just a Kingston
[23:32] <Daviey> I love their new layout... it's not been long since their last refresh
[23:32] <nucc1> Daviey, the site is unavailable.
[23:33] <nucc1> maybe my DNS it caching too much.
[23:33] <Daviey> nucc1, sad4u :)
[23:33] <awilkins> hamitron, OTOH, this one wasn't available 300 days ago (drive has 112 days power-on time, figure it must be on about 1/3rd of the time)
[23:33] <nucc1> Daviey, seriously, it's not down?
[23:34] <Safiyyah> nucc1,  perhaps buy the smalled 60gb and have a HDD as a secondary drive for media?
[23:34] <nucc1> Safiyyah, usb drives are too clumsy to manage.
[23:34] <awilkins> Safiyyah, as a boot drive, an SSD rocks
[23:34] <hamitron> awilkins: yeh, earlier last year I'd of gone kingston
[23:34] <awilkins> Safiyyah, You may have a spare 2.5" bay you can mount an SSD in
[23:35] <nucc1> i might eventually get a 128G drive, and downgrade my music bitrates
[23:35] <nucc1> 'nother problem is where to keep my VM Virtual disks.
[23:35] <hamitron> I refuse to re-encode music
[23:35] <hamitron> 128k all the way
[23:35] <hamitron> :)
[23:35] <nucc1> not re-encode, downgrade for new files.
[23:36] <nucc1> my files range from 96k (back when i had a 20G HDD) all the way to FLAC (nowadays)
[23:36] <hamitron> I just use basic mp3, so all my devices support them
[23:37] <nucc1> rhythmbox does a good job of transcoding.
[23:37] <hamitron> my mp3 player stick only has 128mb
[23:37] <nucc1> and it doesn't take much time on modern core 2 duos.
[23:37] <hamitron> transcoding != good
[23:37] <hamitron> ;/
[23:37]  * awilkins picks devices that support OGG
[23:37] <hamitron> awilkins: ogg wasn't around :/
[23:37] <nucc1> nokia doesn't support ogg. my phone is my media player.
[23:37] <awilkins> This pretty much limits me to i) computers ii) N900 iii) iRiver iv) Samsung YP series
[23:38] <hamitron> transcoding you lose quality :/
[23:38] <nucc1> hamitron, not if you're transcoding from extreme bitrates.
[23:38] <hamitron> awilkins: I have oggplay for symbian :)
[23:38] <nucc1> not noticeably anyway.
[23:39] <nucc1> hamitron, anything that doesn't integrate with the default media player is not good enough.
[23:39] <nucc1> most third-party media players spend more time trying to make fancy graphics than they do making the app usable.
[23:39]  * awilkins notes that Android supports Vorbis
[23:40] <nucc1> there's winamp for android too
[23:40] <nucc1> which always supported vorbis
[23:40] <hamitron> the nokia mp3 player on the ngage is something I can miss ty ;)
[23:40]  * hamitron shudders at the thought of using it
[23:40] <nucc1> just might jump into the half-open android scene eventually
[23:40] <hamitron> :D
[23:40] <hamitron> I refuse
[23:41] <hamitron> so many people moving to android, and I don't like doing what is normal
[23:41] <nucc1> i'm thinking of a more radical thing, like giving up smartphones alltogether.
[23:41] <hamitron> building your own?
[23:41] <nucc1> lol
[23:41] <awilkins> I was on a crappy old RAZR for years
[23:41] <nucc1> using a candybar.
[23:41] <nucc1> yea.
[23:42] <hamitron> I am tempted
[23:42] <nucc1> i've always been a nokia user though, and the 6300 was my all time favourite.
[23:42] <awilkins> Wifelet is still using a 3310 candybar but she's ready to throw it out the window now - needs a new phone that befits her new job
[23:42] <nucc1> one that needs charging every 3 hours :)
[23:42] <nucc1> he he.
[23:42] <hamitron> what you get for playing snake all the time ;/
[23:43] <nucc1> saw a blog post somewhere about some dude in IT support lamenting the case of a lady who returned her blackberry that the battery wasn't good.
[23:43] <nucc1> she was used to her old candybar lasting 3 days.
[23:43] <nucc1> and the "upgrade" became a less than a full-day device
[23:44] <hamitron> anyways
[23:44] <hamitron> I need coffee
[23:44] <hamitron> brb :)
[23:44] <nucc1> i need yogurt. off to the fridge
[23:44] <awilkins> I had to learn to manage my running application profile to get a full day :-)
[23:51] <hamitron> bk
[23:51] <hamitron> anyone tried Windows Thin PC CTP yet?
[23:55] <HazRPG> \o/ hamitron
[23:55] <HazRPG> nope...
[23:55] <HazRPG> why?
[23:56] <hamitron> just wondering
[23:56] <hamitron> gonna try it
[23:56] <hamitron> :)