[00:20] <kdub_> http://gnome3.org/ is coming down the pipes soon
[00:34] <nhaines> And so it has.
[00:52] <iheartubuntu> gnome3 looks nice. i wonder how it will work in real life though.
[00:55] <kdub_> i'm gonna try it out today
[00:56] <nhaines> I would try it if there were any way to run it from a Live CD.
[02:06]  * iheartubuntu still does not understand why university blocks IRC
[02:48] <kevin37353088484> random.randrange(1,100000000000,1) :P
[03:06] <iheartubuntu> HOLY COW.... someone else is using Ubuntu here at the university! Their name popped up in Empathy as "users nearby"
[03:07] <pleia2> hehe
[03:10] <iheartubuntu> no!!! the girl is using a mac
[03:10] <iheartubuntu> dang
[03:10] <iheartubuntu> if they can see me then my name is iheartubuntu ")
[03:13] <iheartubuntu> thats too bad. would have been fun to connect with someone else using ubuntu.
[03:16] <akk> What does "users nearby" show? Maybe just people using any chat protocol?
[03:17] <iheartubuntu> this i dont know
[03:17] <iheartubuntu> well, at work it does not show say, my wife using icq, or my sis using yahoo
[03:18] <iheartubuntu> but in empathy there is a "people nearby" that picks up anyone on the local network i guess
[03:18] <akk> Of course I also wonder what "nearby" means in the internet age ... same subnet?
[03:18] <iheartubuntu> i guess they have to have their chat client running too
[03:19] <iheartubuntu> so maybe ichat in a mac works similar to empathy
[03:19] <iheartubuntu> has anyone played Penumbra on ubuntu? i got it with the humble indie bundle, but never been able to run it (resolution probs)
[03:20] <iheartubuntu> "henry" is also a mac user... although it wont let me communicate with him
[03:20] <iheartubuntu> so two people now... both mac users
[03:33] <kevin37353088484> oh hey, iheartubuntu i lost that link to the comic creating program.  do you still have it.
[03:33] <kevin37353088484> i drew a maverick meerkat from that sticker i got at SCaLE for my niece today
[03:33] <iheartubuntu> uno momento
[03:33] <kevin37353088484> it turned out not so bad
[03:33] <iheartubuntu> what
[03:34] <kevin37353088484> the drawing
[03:34] <akk> A GSOC student applied today to GIMP to fix the comic-book filter. That would be a fun project, if it gets approved.
[03:35] <kevin37353088484> i'm not sure what a comic book filter is
[03:35] <akk> Turn a photo into something that looks like a comic.
[03:35] <akk> Except it doesn't -- it works very poorly, right now.
[03:36] <kevin37353088484> ah, i see
[03:36] <kevin37353088484> speaking of comics, i was at UCLA the other day and they had Marvel vs. Capcom there, and i was wondering why they didn't make cartoons with the art they used in that game
[03:43] <iheartubuntu> akk , there is a plugin in gimp or is it already in gimp?
[03:44] <akk> already there
[03:45]  * iheartubuntu waiting desperately to get home so i can brew some espresso
[03:46] <iheartubuntu> any clue why a university would block irc??
[03:46] <iheartubuntu> they arent blocking some chat clients like yahoo messenger, icq, gmail chat, etc. i wonder why they block irc
[03:46] <pleia2> a lot of them do, there are lots of irc channels for doing questionable things like sharing illegal files, etc
[03:47] <pleia2> freenode is exceptional in its usefulness :)
[03:48] <pleia2> people used to host filesharing bots, and run their own (xdcc was the most popular)
[03:49] <pleia2> they took up loooots of bandwidth over dcc, so schools shut of all access
[03:49] <iheartubuntu> ohh i see. DANG
[03:50] <iheartubuntu> doing irc via webchat isnt very fun or easy
[04:26] <iheartubuntu_> Italy gave you the boot!
[04:27] <kevin37353088484> was it Sarcozzi?
[04:27] <kevin37353088484> i think that's his name
[04:28] <kevin37353088484> "The Heel of Italy"
[04:29] <kevin37353088484> wrong country
[04:29] <kevin37353088484> Berlusconi
[04:29] <kevin37353088484> i and i
[04:29] <kevin37353088484> coincidence?
[04:31] <iheartubuntu_> dang, 30 minute warning at library here
[04:32] <iheartubuntu_> so i hung out friday night with 6 women... my wife and five IRS auditors. Let me tell you stories :)
[04:32] <kevin37353088484> i should go to good will when i'm in LA, see if they have any long ethernet cables.  they sell them for like $1
[04:32] <kevin37353088484> no vga cables though
[04:34] <iheartubuntu_> i'm melting! i'm melting!
[07:34]  * iheartubuntu is installing gnome3 in VB
[07:38] <iheartubuntu> ohhh wow, its pretty nice!
[07:38] <iheartubuntu> i feel like im on a star trek computer
[07:46] <iheartubuntu> burning to disc. will try it out as a live cd. doesnt render well in virtualbox
[16:14] <kdub_> ghost kdub
[16:14] <kdub_> whoops, at least i didnt put the pw out :)
[16:28] <DarkwingDuck> :)
[18:08] <kdub> DarkwingDuck: we're thinknig the next ubuntu hour SD will be 4/19, if you can make ti
[18:09] <kdub> i'm gonna print up my flier, put it up around UCSD/USD and see who we can get to come out
[18:11] <iheartubuntu> that reminds me, i need to whip up a flyer to put around Cal State LA and maybe around CalTech about Ubuntu Hour
[18:15] <DarkwingDuck> kdub: awesome.
[18:15] <DarkwingDuck> kdub: advertise it as a Ubuntu Hour and Install party
[18:17] <iheartubuntu> one hour seems like not enough :)
[18:18]  * iheartubuntu considers starting an Ubuntu Marathon :) j/k
[18:18] <nhaines> Please do not do install parties running for less than 5 hours.
[18:19] <pleia2> yeah, it's easy to think you can get an install done in an hour but it never works out like that
[18:19] <iheartubuntu> I tried to run a daily build of Natty LiveCD last night and it would get going
[18:19] <pleia2> you end up getting kicked out of your venue with a half installed machine left in a horrible state
[18:19] <pleia2> kicked out == they close, etc
[18:20] <pleia2> we had 5 hours planned for our last installfest and we were there for 6 debugging a RAM issue
[18:20] <kdub> I don't know if I want to be there for 5 hours :)
[18:21] <pleia2> people tend to come to installfests because they tried and had problems, so they want help and it takes a while to debug
[18:21] <iheartubuntu> GNOME3 is very interesting. It seems very basic, yet powerful.
[18:21] <kdub> i tried it out too, i like gnome3
[18:21]  * kdub has always been a graphics type person
[18:22] <iheartubuntu> I have my dads old desktop here with a "low memory" problem.
[18:22] <iheartubuntu> im thinking to redo the bios maybe to fix the prob
[18:22] <iheartubuntu> its an ubunut system that takes like 10 reboots to ever boot into ubuntu
[18:23] <iheartubuntu> i never had a prob on that computer until recently upgrading from 10.04 to 10.10
[18:23] <iheartubuntu> maybe there is a grub setting that got changed
[18:25] <kdub> DarkwingDuck: i think i'm gonna distribute the fliers and location for april at SDSU, as its a strong engineering school...
[18:26] <DarkwingDuck> Aye, where are we going to hold it?
[18:28] <kdub> i'm thinking at the starbucks at La Jolla Shopping Center, its walking distance from the campus
[18:29] <kdub> I haven't seen that particular location yet though, will swing by it on the way back from work today to check it out
[18:31] <DarkwingDuck> Okay
[18:33] <kdub> if its a good location, i'll make the announcement, print the fliers, etc today
[18:33] <pleia2> fwiw I offer to give tips about issues with ubuntu at every ubuntu hour, you don't need to call it an installfest to give 15 minutes of help :)
[18:33] <pleia2> so people bring laptops and things with weird problems and we can try to debug
[18:34] <pleia2> also, why is it only tuesday? :(
[18:57] <DarkwingDuck> Okay kdub.
[18:59] <kdub> i've also been keeping my antennae up for the other hackers groups around here
[18:59] <kdub> found 12-15 who meet once a month out by the 15/52
[18:59] <kdub> in addition to kplug
[19:00] <DarkwingDuck> I think there are a couple of hackerspaces here in SD
[19:01] <kdub> there's one i know of, relatively new (november). still havent made it out there, but i think they have a warehouse. clairemont area if i remember
[19:05] <DarkwingDuck> kdub: there are two listed here... http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_People
[19:08] <kdub> nucleon has a physical space though, the other group is more of a coffeehouse coders group
[19:08]  * kdub always associates hackerspaces with physical hardware hacks
[19:18] <iheartubuntu> how about... kevin8675309
[19:19] <kevin50047419529> i'm using random.randrange(1,100000000000,1) to generate the number
[19:19] <kevin50047419529> in python
[19:19] <kevin50047419529> hey do you have experience with ecommerce iheartubuntu?
[19:20] <jledbetter> kevin50047419529, We share a lot of channels.
[19:20] <iheartubuntu> what sort of ecommerce?
[19:22] <kevin50047419529> jledbetter: 3
[19:22] <akk> If you'd drop about 4 zeroes from that, it would disturb the xchat separator line a lot less.
[19:22] <jledbetter> Seems like more.
[19:23]  * kevin50047419529 laughs
[19:23] <kevin50047419529> big numbers are fun though :(
[19:23]  * akk wants an xchat setting to say "automatically adjust the separator line but not for any nick longer than 12 chars"
[19:23] <jledbetter> +1 akk
[19:24] <kevin50047419529> iheartubuntu: like, you click a link it says "give me 5 cents for that"
[19:24] <kevin50047419529> i'll get on that akk
[19:24] <iheartubuntu> quite an interesting link for me... my music biz back in '95 used the thawte security protection (thawte was founded by shuttleworth). i used it because my GF at the time had connections to shuttleworth. small world! she bought me the domains and the thawte service (which i couldnt afford!)
[19:24] <kevin50047419529> jledbetter: it is transparent that you don't really like me
[19:24] <kevin50047419529> to be blunt
[19:24] <kevin50047419529> you must think i'm an ignoramus, i can assure you i am trying
[19:25] <jledbetter> kevin50047419529, Untrue. You are sometimes very random and confusing.
[19:25] <iheartubuntu> back then in 95 my whole shopping cart system was set up for me. nowadays i use websites like payloadz or e-junkie for shopping carts
[19:25] <kevin4942941> jledbetter: untrue, it all makes perfect sense to me
[19:25] <jledbetter> kevin4942941, Perhaps I am alone in feeling that it is disruptive at times.
[19:25] <kevin4942941> iheartubuntu: what about paypal?
[19:26] <kevin4942941> jledbetter: i doubt you are
[19:26] <pleia2> no, she's not
[19:26] <kevin4942941> maybe i'll get voted off the island
[19:26] <iheartubuntu> paypal works fine if you have an item to send. they dont handle digital downloads... say of a a ZIP file, a PDF book, a DEB file for sale, etc
[19:27] <kevin4942941> well, my cat loves me :|
[19:27] <kevin4942941> ah, interesting iheartubuntu, thanks
[19:27] <kevin4942941> so does my neighbor's dog
[19:27] <kevin4942941> payloadz or e-junkie i'll keep that in mind
[19:28] <pleia2> kevin4942941: disruptive and random doesn't mean "don't like you"
[19:28] <iheartubuntu> there is no island kevin8675309
[19:28] <akk> right, +1 pleia2
[19:28] <akk> and jledbetter
[19:28] <iheartubuntu> we are all on the same boat :)
[19:29] <jledbetter> +1 pleia2
[19:29]  * kevin4942941 blinks
[19:30]  * kdub buys boatload of sparkfun 
[19:30] <pleia2> kdub++
[19:31] <kevin4942941> allspark
[19:31] <kevin4942941> connections
[19:31] <kevin4942941> aren't random
[19:31] <kevin4942941> they are quite frequently "weird"...
[19:31] <iheartubuntu> like my connection to anna chapman for example
[19:32] <iheartubuntu> j/k
[19:32] <iheartubuntu> :)
[19:33] <iheartubuntu> i'll be visited by the cia tomorrow
[19:33] <kevin4942941> any relation to the IRS?
[19:33] <iheartubuntu> yes
[19:34] <iheartubuntu> Internets Running Slow
[19:34] <kevin4942941> no, brain is
[19:34] <kevin4942941> for a 2nd i'm thinking "does he really know anna chapman"
[19:34] <kevin4942941> what a maroon
[19:34] <iheartubuntu> haha
[19:35]  * iheartubuntu laughs hysterically under his breath while kevin isnt looking
[19:35] <iheartubuntu> actually...
[19:35] <kevin4942941> does anna chapman work for the iRS?
[19:35] <iheartubuntu> actually my wife has to field all the anna chapman questions ever since that happened.
[19:35] <kevin4942941> who is anna chapman dating, anyway?
[19:35] <kevin4942941> not that i follow celebrity gossip
[19:36] <iheartubuntu> I think she works for FSB actually, the russian cia now
[19:36] <kevin4942941> i wonder who her male counterpart is
[19:36] <kevin4942941> what?  that's weird
[19:36] <kevin4942941> so like Putin is her boyfriend?
[19:36] <iheartubuntu> i tihnk she worked for them all along, its just out in the open now
[19:38] <iheartubuntu> i wonder how russia is going to transition to ubuntu coming soon.. what is it 2012? or 2014?
[19:38] <iheartubuntu> thats a big task
[19:38] <iheartubuntu> most russians in russia i know have never even seen ubuntu
[19:39] <kevin4942941> it's easy to learn imho
[19:40] <kevin4942941> but it does have some limitations
[19:40] <iheartubuntu> even the SysAdmins there dont use ubuntu. everything is WinXP stuff
[19:40] <iheartubuntu> and everything is pi-rat-ed there
[19:40] <iheartubuntu> i mean everything
[19:40] <kevin4942941> "everything"?  that sounds crazy
[19:40] <iheartubuntu> i bought the entire Beatles collection for $1
[19:40]  * iheartubuntu thinks it was legal there tho
[19:40] <kevin4942941> i've used russian websites to buy music
[19:41] <kevin4942941> i thought it was legal
[19:41] <kevin4942941> and yeah, it was that inexpensive
[19:41] <iheartubuntu> so for russia to switch to ubuntu is going to be HUGE
[19:41] <iheartubuntu> and i think it will help the country too
[19:42] <kdub> i think they're just switching to linux b/c they don't trust american microsoft
[19:42]  * kdub doesn't either :)
[19:42] <iheartubuntu> russia is changing and the old mindset of copying things will dissappear eventually if OS and software is free
[19:42] <iheartubuntu> tons of great programmers there too
[19:42] <kevin4942941> more competition
[19:42] <kdub> at the highest levels of the descision though, i'm sure there was concern about MS/CIA backdoors
[19:42] <kevin4942941> i just read a tweet from _capitalism_ about how there are 800 chinese that can do my job for me
[19:43] <iheartubuntu> tons of russian games for WinXP ive seen there that ive never seen here... so once russia switches to open source i bet we'll have an influx of new free software and games. games!
[19:43] <kevin4942941> i'm not sure why every country doesn't have their own linux o.s.
[19:43] <kdub> iheartubuntu: thats true, should be good!
[19:43] <kevin4942941> well, every industrialized country
[19:44] <iheartubuntu> arent the facebook and google founders russian?
[19:44] <iheartubuntu> dont know if they were born there tho.
[19:44] <iheartubuntu> but everyone i met there is like 10x smarter than myself.
[19:44] <iheartubuntu> not uhhhhh saying im not smart or anything :)
[19:44] <kevin4942941> Zuckerberg is russian?
[19:45] <iheartubuntu> i dont know
[19:45] <kevin4942941> Serge Brin and Larry Page?
[19:45] <kevin4942941> Serge Brin may be a russian name
[19:45] <kdub> sergei is russian born
[19:45] <kevin4942941> dang, and he went to Stanford
[19:45] <kdub> larry was michigan born like me :D
[19:45] <kdub> and U-Michigan
[19:46] <kevin4942941> all right kdub, you went to U-Michigan like Larry Page, you can be captain for a day
[19:46] <iheartubuntu> so i think that will be pretty good once russia makes the move.
[19:46] <kevin4942941> o captain my captain
[19:46] <kdub> sweet, captain of the boat!
[19:47] <kevin4942941> i'll need a cutlass captain, there may be a mutiny
[19:47] <kevin4942941> might i propose a first mate, me.
[19:47] <iheartubuntu> im trying to get my 20 yo inlaw to switch to ubuntu. he is stuck on winxp and he wont move because he is a gamer. and no incentive for him to switch with games costing a buck
[19:47] <kevin4942941> captain, heavy is the head that wears the crown...or...captain hat as it were
[19:48] <kevin4942941> yeah i looked up u michigan stats, their graduation rates were on par with UCLA and Cal Tech
[19:48] <kevin4942941> i should've took my education more seriously in high school, but i really didn't like high school much.
[19:48] <kevin4942941> i didn't start enjoying college really until recently
[19:49] <kevin4942941> yeah, you can't really be lazy and use ubuntu
[19:49] <akk> Gaming is probably one use case where Linux isn't quite ready yet.
[19:49] <kevin4942941> it's too bad, since it's the recruitment tool
[19:49] <akk> Telling people to stop playing the games they like and play different games isn't a convincing argument.
[19:50] <kevin4942941> i was thinking of pressed cd's had a graphic of a meerkat, lynx, narwhal, etc. it might be possible to get more young people interested
[19:50] <kevin4942941> or even to play their games in wine
[19:50] <kevin4942941> i mean, i know there is a performance hit
[19:50] <kevin4942941> it may not matter on some systems though
[19:50] <kevin4942941> just use more power
[19:50] <kdub> akk: linux is as ready as any other system for games, in terms of capability
[19:51] <kdub> investment from publishers, not so much
[19:51] <akk> kdub: I'm not a 3D programmer, but what I hear is that the 3D APIs are awful and it's hard to make them work reliably.
[19:51] <kdub> you probably heard that from the direct 3d crowd, who is stubborn about using anything opengl
[19:51] <akk> kdub: Someone from Mozilla, I think it was, had an article recently about how web 3d didn't work right on linux except on certain nvidia cards.
[19:52]  * kdub writes graphics cards for a living :( 
[19:52] <kevin4942941> o captain my captain
[19:52] <kdub> X is something of a mess, wayland is pretty cool
[19:52] <kevin4942941> i wonder what 3d api WoW uses
[19:53] <kevin4942941> i doubt direct 3d since there is a mac version
[19:53] <akk> darn, I can't find the article. It was just a week or two ago.
[19:53] <kevin4942941> i wonder why the mac version wouldn't work on linux...
[19:53] <kevin4942941> it would have to be compiled :|
[19:53] <kevin4942941> i think...
[19:54] <kdub> there's all sorts of architectural things that might have to change between mac & linux that would make it tough
[19:54] <akk> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/216874/firefox_4_beta_9_gives_short_shrift_to_linux_users.html
[19:54] <akk> "We tried enabling OpenGL on Linux, and discovered that most Linux drivers are so disastrously buggy (think ‘crash the X server at the drop of a hat, and paint incorrectly the rest of the time' buggy) that we had to disable it for now,"
[19:54] <kevin4942941> ah, right the Mac doesn't use the linux kernel
[19:54] <akk> and that was from Boris Zbarsky, who has been a huge and untiring linux advocate at mozilla for about a decade
[19:55] <kevin4942941> what was i thinking
[19:55]  * kevin4942941 walks the plank
[19:55] <akk> When Boris says something like that, I pay attention.
[19:56] <kdub> i don't think thats a fair article
[19:57] <kevin4942941> the funny thing is, i tend to think in terms of 2d games lately.  i mean warcraft 2 is 2d, it is still a fun game to play for me
[19:57] <kevin4942941> starcraft also
[19:57] <akk> kdub: What's wrong with it?
[19:58] <kdub> i guess my anecdotal experience conflicts with his, so i don't like it
[19:58] <akk> I know I've had huge problems getting google earth to work under Linux, but that could just mean that google hasn't bothered to make it work.
[19:59] <kdub> the big headache is how drivers are split up
[19:59] <akk> What graphics cards do you use/develop for, kdub?
[19:59] <akk> I know I've had trouble with several older ATIs and several Intel graphics chips (the newest Intels seem better).
[20:00] <kevin4942941> i wonder if it's because there are so many video cards and not enough developers writing open source drivers for them
[20:01] <kevin4942941> i mean, i know drivers are often used for hardware that haven't been specifically written for it
[20:01] <kevin4942941> like my intel g960/965, it uses the i915 driver, which may not be optimal
[20:01] <kdub> akk: mobile ones, not the usual suspects
[20:02] <kevin4942941> i guess it could have some kind of "unified driver architecture" and i wonder if that implies that the drivers for all architectures are included in a single "package"
[20:05] <kevin4942941> kdub: who makes mobile graphics chips?
[20:06] <kevin4942941> hmm, i thought the ati cards were working well with open source drivers
[20:09] <kevin4942941> looks like toshiba, nvidia...perhaps ati
[20:09] <kevin4942941> arm
[20:22] <iheartubuntu> does anyone know where the MBR is stored? on the hard drive or ram or ??
[20:23] <akk> It's the first part of the disk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record
[20:39] <iheartubuntu> so formatting should wipe it
[20:40] <iheartubuntu> im getting some low memory errors and i think its from some info on the mbr, i was just going to format the HD and reinstall ubuntu
[20:42] <akk> Installing will overwrite the mbr if you tell the installer to install grub2 to the mbr.
[20:42] <akk> Partitioning in the installer won't.
[20:43] <iheartubuntu> i cant even get into this drive right now using an ubuntu disc. im using parted magic on ultimate rescue disc... after backing up the data i was going to format the hard drive from parted magic and then reboot and try to install ubuntu with a fresh drive
[20:44] <iheartubuntu> for some reason im unable to boot a ubuntu livecd
[20:44] <iheartubuntu> but can use the rescue disc
[21:00] <kevin4942941> that is kind of strange
[21:00] <kevin4942941> i've never used a rescue disc
[21:00] <kevin4942941> well, i used a rescue disc awhile back to change a windows passwd i forgot
[21:01] <kevin4942941> that was back when i was using windows though
[21:03] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: formatting does not touch the MBR at all.
[21:03] <iheartubuntu> how do i touch the mrb then
[21:03] <iheartubuntu> i wonder why the ubuntu disc hangs, but a rescue disc (linux) boots into it fine
[21:03] <iheartubuntu> im going to try a 10.04 disc instead of 10.10
[21:03] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: use a partitioning tool like Disk Utility (palimpset) or GNOME Partition Editor.
[21:04] <kevin4942941> iheartubuntu: different kernel versions?
[21:04] <nhaines> The MBR has absolutely nothing to do with memory.  Is there a specific reason you suspect the MBR?
[21:04] <kevin4942941> i thought you were using gparted iheartubuntu
[21:07] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: to me that literally sounds like someone saying "I'm getting bad reception on my TV.  I think it's from some info in the TV Guide listings."
[21:07] <nhaines> Except maybe it's bad radio reception because of the TV Guide listings.  That sounds like a better analogy.
[21:08]  * akk agrees with nhaines
[21:09] <iheartubuntu> i was getting a low memory error
[21:09] <akk> And why do you think that points to an mbr problem?
[21:09] <kevin4942941> to me, i think the analogy is uncalled for.
[21:09] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: sounds like you don't have enough memory then.  How much RAM is in the system?
[21:09] <iheartubuntu> someplace on the internets i read about changing something in the boot record
[21:09] <iheartubuntu> 1GB maxed out
[21:09] <akk> It might be a bad RAM chip -- when I see memory errors I usually try running memtest first.
[21:10] <iheartubuntu> this computer ran fine with 10.04
[21:10] <nhaines> The MBR just defines the way the disk is partitioned.
[21:10] <iheartubuntu> after upgrade to 10.10 i was getting low mem error
[21:10] <iheartubuntu> "memory corruption detected in low memory"
[21:11] <nhaines> That's not an out-of-memory error, that's a memory corruption error.
[21:11] <nhaines> Run memtest to see if it can narrow it down to a specific DIMM, then toss that DIMM and replace the memory in the computer.
[21:11] <iheartubuntu> but strangely i didnt have the error before the upgrade
[21:11] <nhaines> Where does the MBR come in?
[21:11] <kevin4942941> hopefully it's not a bug in 10.10 the caused the memory problem
[21:11] <iheartubuntu> nhaines... i have no idea
[21:12] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: coincidence is not causation.  :)
[21:12] <iheartubuntu> something i read
[21:12] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: I'd love a link to that page or article.
[21:13] <kevin4942941> i'm just paranoid after my battery, and i heard there's a bug that is borking ssds in #ubuntu-beginners and #ubuntu-nz
[21:15] <iheartubuntu> cannot find a page. i had so many open last night. there was a bug or two filed about this, but i dont think it was version specific
[21:16] <kevin4942941> is it a system76 system iheartubuntu?
[21:16] <iheartubuntu> no, an old sony viao
[21:16] <kevin4942941> i am wondering because i am thinking hardware that doesn't have linux in mind should be avoided like the plague if at all possible
[21:16] <kevin4942941> i had a vaio at an old job.  nice little 14" notebook
[21:17] <iheartubuntu> my dad just bought a brand new slimline gateway for $500 on the weekend. it is AWESOME with ubuntu
[21:17] <akk> I've had several nice vaios.
[21:17] <iheartubuntu> this viao is pretty old :) like 2002
[21:17] <akk> Only buying from linux-friendly companies is great in principle, but they're all so small that you don't get much selection.
[21:17] <iheartubuntu> a P4 2.40ghtz
[21:17] <akk> If they don't have what you're looking for, you have to look elsewhere.
[21:17] <kevin4942941> gateway is weird, i don't know why i've heard such good things about them
[21:18] <iheartubuntu> after i stopped building my own computers ive bought only gateway. never a prob.
[21:18] <kevin4942941> i wonder, why they would any better, perhaps kernel hackers buy gateways
[21:18] <iheartubuntu> all my gateways with ubuntu work great
[21:18] <iheartubuntu> 2 old laptops and 2 newer desktops
[21:18] <kevin4942941> when i bought my toshiba i assumed linux worked awesome on everything
[21:18] <nhaines> No hardware is really made with Linux in mind.  As long as it's standards compliant it should be fine.
[21:19] <kevin4942941> i would have spent a little more for hardware that is more compatible
[21:19] <akk> Zeareason is made with linux in mind ... at least for some models, Cathy went to Taiwan and had machines explicitly speced.
[21:19] <akk> (specced? specked?)
[21:19] <kevin4942941> i wonder why you believe this nhaines
[21:19] <kevin4942941> specced i guess
[21:20] <nhaines> kevin4942941: because it's true.
[21:20] <kevin4942941> weird
[21:20] <kevin4942941> specification doesn't have a k
[21:20] <akk> It doesn't have two cs either, though. :)
[21:20] <kevin4942941> akk just pointed out an example where it is not
[21:20] <nhaines> akk: I think it's more likely she went and had hardware built with specific chipsets in mind.
[21:20] <kevin4942941> i know, i was going to say speced, or perhaps spec'ed
[21:20] <nhaines> kevin4942941: I don't think she did.
[21:20] <akk> no apostrophes for plurals, ick
[21:21] <akk> nhaines: What's the difference between specing a chipset and specing other hardware in the machine?
[21:21] <kevin4942941> yeah, that's why i went with specced
[21:21] <akk> Seems like what matters is that the machine is designed (parts chosen) with linux compatibility in mind.
[21:21] <nhaines> akk: nothing, really, and that's why I don't think there's a significant difference.
[21:22] <kevin4942941> iow, it isn't true that some hardware isn't built with linux in mind
[21:22] <nhaines> akk: the value add is that Kathy did the work for you.  Which is way awesome and totally worth it.  :)
[21:22] <kevin4942941> i wouldn't be surprised if hardware specs aren't collaborated with software developers in the linux community
[21:23] <kevin4942941> sony could simply be working closer with microsoft than with linux developers, i suspect that's what happened with my toshiba
[21:23] <kevin4942941> and considering the latest windows ads...
[21:24] <kevin4942941> i'm lucky it works as good as it does
[21:24] <akk> Sony is pretty evil. I love my Vaios but I don't like the company much.
[21:24] <akk> They're even more MS-centric than most companies, and also make repair and parts difficult.
[21:24] <nhaines> The only hardware I know that was built with Linux in mind was the HDTV 5000 card I bought.
[21:24] <iheartubuntu> so for some STRANGE reason, 10.04 finally booted into the live disc after sitting for 20 minutes
[21:25] <iheartubuntu> im attempting to install it now. but i wonder if there is an underlying memory problem
[21:25] <akk> nhaines: "built" meaning chips designed from the silicon level, not just assembling components into a consumer product?
[21:25] <kevin4942941> i would do a memtest from the livecd
[21:25] <iheartubuntu> i did a mem test sunday for about 45 minutes and had no errors
[21:25] <nhaines> akk: in this case, more like "we specced it out and wrote Free Linux drivers, but couldn't be bothered to write Windows ones."
[21:25] <kevin4942941> the corrupt memory error would freak me out enough to run one iheartubuntu
[21:25] <iheartubuntu> i was also getting the same error with 500mb ram installed (two different chips)
[21:26] <kevin4942941> but you're probably more of a risk taker than i am
[21:26] <akk> Ah, built meaning the company that built the silicon also wrote drivers. Gotcha.
[21:26] <akk> Intel writes drivers for some of their hardware (though sadly, the linux drivers are usually inferior to the windows ones).
[21:27] <kevin4942941> as more tech is outsource to india and china, perhaps that will change
[21:27] <akk> I've been buying machines with Intel hardware lately for that reason, hoping they'll run linux better (and they do, but not entirely without glitches).
[21:27] <kevin4942941> i would think AMD would run better
[21:27] <nhaines> Here's another example.  None of Western Digital's hard drives are supported by the company in Linux.
[21:28] <kevin4942941> i mean, they right drivers for the ati cards
[21:28] <nhaines> But they're ATA-compliant and run beautifully.
[21:28] <akk> It would be great if all hardware followed specs as well as hard drives.
[21:28] <akk> Can you imagine, a generic video card driver where you could take any video card and everything would just work?
[21:28] <kevin4942941> well, that's probably not really "support".  that probably just means people can't call you guys for software support
[21:28] <iheartubuntu> so doing some more google searches on my low mem error... sounds like i could have edited the boot options to increase memory error setting
[21:28] <nhaines> This is where, for the permanent Google record, I state that I work for Western Digital, however the opinions expressed on this topic are my own and do not reflect the opinions of Western Digital.
[21:29] <akk> Or a wi-fi card standard that every wi-fi chipset followed? <wistful sigh>
[21:29] <iheartubuntu> i'll do that if i still have install probs
[21:29] <nhaines> akk: that's called VESA.  ;)
[21:29] <kdub> akk: thats somewhat of a gross oversimplification of graphics stacks
[21:29] <kevin4942941> i wonder about the fujitsu drive that used to be in this system
[21:29] <kevin4942941> it was a little flaky
[21:29] <nhaines> kevin4942941: we'll help make sure your drive is physically installed and jumpered correctly and that's it.
[21:29] <akk> nhaines: uh, yeah :)
[21:30] <kevin4942941> iheartubuntu: it's a corrupt memory error, now low memory...though i guess i can see your point.  "this segment of memory is corrupt, therefore you have less memory now"
[21:30] <kevin4942941> perhaps that's what youre thinking
[21:30] <kevin4942941> dang...i can't type
[21:31] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: "low memory" means the first 640K built into the motherboard.
[21:31] <kevin4942941> the fingers have a mind of their own
[21:31] <akk> iheartubuntu told us the error message, "memory corruption detected in low memory"
[21:31] <akk> The "low" doesn't mean "out of memory", it means "low memory addresses"
[21:32] <iheartubuntu> ok i found this at the bottom of the bug... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/324894/
[21:32] <kevin4942941> i didn't read that.  i just thought it was "memory corruption detected"
[21:32] <kevin4942941> empathy doesn't have logs :(
[21:32] <iheartubuntu> empathy has logs
[21:32] <kevin4942941> let me search for them
[21:32] <iheartubuntu> under view
[21:33] <iheartubuntu> prievious conversations
[21:33] <iheartubuntu> it even has search
[21:33] <iheartubuntu> so if you said "dick tracy" 17 days ago it will find it
[21:33] <kevin4942941> dang i was hoping i could use grep :|
[21:34] <kevin4942941> cool, thanks iheartubuntu i was looking for a log file in ~/
[21:36] <kevin4942941> it is kind of nice to have more expressive emoticons too
[21:43] <iheartubuntu> i am getting more into just using what ubuntu offers. empathy instead of pidgin. ubuntuone instead of dropbox, etc
[21:43] <kevin4942941> hmmm, so wayland isn't going to be supported by nvidia, that narrows hardware down
[21:43] <iheartubuntu> empathy matches gwibber too IMO and they all work well with the indicator too
[21:43] <kevin4942941> i wonder if the future is just going to be integrated hardware companies like apple, and microsoft to an extent
[21:43] <kevin4942941> considering they have their xbox, why they don't just sell pc's...
[21:44] <kevin4942941> hmmm, maybe they just have a deal with toshiba, and perhaps sony
[21:44] <kevin4942941> yeah, i don't like gwibber
[21:44] <kdub> wayland wont have to "be supported" by nvidia, nvidia already supports DRI
[21:44] <akk> I was going to ask whether that was any different from nvidia's past support of X.
[21:44] <kevin4942941> oh gods...that makes no sense kdub
[21:44] <kevin4942941> i'll look up DRI
[21:45] <akk> kdub: DRI is standard enough that wayland won't need separate drivers for different cards?
[21:46] <nhaines> kevin4942941: you don't think what kdub said makes any sense but you don't know what DRI is?
[21:46] <kdub> krh thought about what the driver developers would do, and i'm pretty sure DRI is the only requisite for wayland
[21:47] <kevin4942941> nbaines:  i don't see what the problem is, aside from own ignorance, which i already acknowledged
[21:47] <kdub> its an exciting time for graphics
[21:47] <iheartubuntu> i like gwibber. hotot is pretty nice too
[21:48] <kevin4942941> but if you're just doing it to stroke your own ego nhaines...then *pat* *pat* *pat*
[21:48] <kevin4942941> gwibber wasn't getting feeds in, so i just use twitter in a pinned tab
[21:49] <kevin4942941> DRI = dopamine reuptake inhibitor
[21:49] <kevin4942941> :P
[21:49] <kevin4942941> i use DRI for my depression
[21:52] <nhaines> kevin4942941: yes, my confusion at your statement (paraphrased "I claim kdub's assertion is logically deficient, by the way I don't know what he said") is to stroke my ego.
[21:52] <nhaines> Good call.  That makes even more sense.
[21:54] <kevin4942941> nbaines (sic):  you don't understand my reference point.  you are thinking i am saying his words were logically deficient absolutely, i never made such a claim, that is your interpretation of it.  for clarification, it was supposed to be taken as "it doesn't make sense to me" which isn't a stain on kdub's character, but my own.  but thank you for trying to make me feel like a bigger ass than i already am.
[21:55] <kevin4942941> and as sarcasm oftentimes doesn't come across text, i am not really thankful.
[21:55] <nhaines> kevin4942941: I'm generally content if people feel like as much of an ass as they actually are.
[21:56] <kevin4942941> now i'm going to do some tai chi, for some reason i'm feeling bad vibes dude
[21:56] <nhaines> Although I don't usually consider it my job to catalyze that.
[21:56] <nhaines> On a mostly unrelated note, I could really use some chai tea.
[21:57] <kevin4942941> and yet you do it so well
[21:57] <kevin4942941> you probably don't consider it your job, because you aren't getting paid for it
[21:58] <nhaines> kevin4942941: you'd probably find that you'd get less "bad vibes" by not reading malice into things said in IRC.
[21:58] <pleia2> +1
[21:58] <kevin4942941> nhaines:  you should take your own advice
[21:59] <nhaines> kevin4942941: I always do.
[21:59] <nhaines> kevin4942941: on the other hand, I do get annoyed when people assume the worst and then attack me for it.  I usually don't have a lot of time for that.
[21:59] <kevin4942941> nhaines:  so you say
[22:00] <nhaines> kevin4942941: I was surprised at what you said and asked you to clarify, and you said I made you feel like a bigger ass than you usually do.
[22:00] <kevin4942941> there was no attack on my part, just defense
[22:00] <pleia2> kevin4942941: some tai chi sounds like a good idea :)
[22:01] <akk> kevin4942941: "stroke your own ego" wasn't an attack?
[22:01] <akk> Came across as one.
[22:01] <kevin4942941> i suppose i should just let him say what he wants
[22:01] <nhaines> kevin4942941: I actually was just hoping for some kind of clarification.  I'm sorry if it came across as an attack.
[22:02] <kevin4942941> i consider kdub a friend nhaines, so you saying i am criticizing his logic i didn't take too kindly to
[22:02] <kevin4942941> especially since it was false
[22:02] <nhaines> kevin4942941: it was a question, not an assertion.
[22:03] <akk> From a third party view, it looked like there was some attacking/insulting on both sides.
[22:03]  * nhaines doesn't let his friends get away with bad logic.
[22:03] <kdub> its all good everyone :)
[22:03]  * iheartubuntu whips out his violin. dont shoot me since ive never played one.
[22:03] <akk> Maybe we should all make up and try to clear up the tech misunderstanding. :)
[22:03] <erichammond> I'd like to welcome everybody to the Ubuntu community :) http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[22:03]  * kevin4942941 tries to treat his friends with kindness
[22:03] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: the round part goes under your chin.  :)
[22:04] <iheartubuntu> ohh thats how you do it. i had it on my foot like a hillbilly
[22:04] <kevin4942941> i played violin, not well mind you
[22:04] <iheartubuntu> ardour is the next violin
[22:05]  * akk has a sony laptop named vaiolin, does that count?
[22:05] <kevin4942941> no kidding, iheartubuntu
[22:05] <iheartubuntu> truce everyone
[22:05] <iheartubuntu> its 5pm someplace
[22:05] <iheartubuntu> (isnt that a song?)
[22:06]  * kevin4942941 has no clue
[22:06] <kevin4942941> do you want the truth or the marketing propaganda?
[22:06] <kevin4942941> :D
[22:07] <kevin4942941> truth is, i frequently have no clue.  the upsell is, i make *millions* of Julian fries!
[22:16] <kdub> back to wayland though :) (hopefully not digging anything back up)
[22:17] <kevin4942941> i couldn't really find anything on DRI
[22:17] <kevin4942941> oh yeah, would you buy an nvidia card?  or recommend an nvidia card to a friend for wayland?
[22:18] <kevin4942941> my initial reaction is no, i mean, just based on them not "supporting" it officially, according to wikipedia
[22:18]  * akk wonders what kind of graphics chips the wayland developers use
[22:18] <kdub> X needs a lot of X-specific mechanisms to let applications run in an X environment with openGL
[22:18] <akk> (developers plural? I think I read somewhere that it's just one person)
[22:18] <kdub> its largely krh
[22:19] <kdub> but intel is the recommended atm
[22:19] <akk> Does it matter which intel? or will all of them work pretty comparably? (subject to limitations in capabilities, of course)
[22:19] <kevin4942941> i'm wondering if i could find an apprenticeship somewhere.  it would be cool to be able to shadow one of these guys.
[22:19] <kevin4942941> assuming they didn't find me annoying
[22:20] <kdub> akk: i've been trying to get it running with my GMA965, should be able to work
[22:20] <kevin4942941> it's a nice day out in so cal
[22:20] <kdub> youtube keeps getting in the way though
[22:20] <akk> kdub: Great -- my laptop's something near that, so hopefully it will work too.
[22:21] <akk> youtube because of getting the adobe flash plugin to run?
[22:21] <kdub> no, just watching videos and not doing work when I'm home :)
[22:21] <kevin4942941> i have gm965/gl960
[22:22] <akk> oh, haha
[22:22] <kevin4942941> i wonder what you're watching on youtube that is so interesting
[22:22] <kevin4942941> i can't even watch the daily show anymore :(
[22:22] <kevin4942941> i'm tired of their grey goose commercials
[22:22] <kdub> the cool thing about wayland though is that every application has really powerful and flexible access to what it renders
[22:22] <kevin4942941> that's an issue of content, not youtubeness
[22:23] <kevin4942941> oh yeah, i watched some noam chomsky stuff that was interesting on youtube
[22:23] <akk> I'll miss xlib a little (I have quite a few xlib programs) but I'll cope, and rewrite, assuming it offers a simple drawing API.
[22:24] <akk> I do fear the window manager situation, though, haven't seen anything written about that.
[22:24] <kevin4942941> i'm wondering if wayland uses code from X, or if it's a complete rewrite
[22:25] <kdub> its not a rewrite of X at all
[22:25] <kdub> which, is whats so cool
[22:25] <kevin4942941> so it stands alone
[22:26] <kdub> right, and ubuntu version #1 will mostly still be X driven while everybody catches up
[22:26] <kdub> sorry
[22:26] <kevin4942941> or it's a standalone
[22:27] <kevin4942941> that's just crazy to me
[22:27] <kdub> well, with the plans ive seen for ubuntu, the first version will run wayland on the baremetal and still run an xserver as a wayland client
[22:27] <akk> Wow, implementing X inside wayland?
[22:27] <nhaines> As long as the integration is good, that should be an excellent way to transition.
[22:28] <akk> I guess that's a good migration scheme, but it sounds like a lot of extra work.
[22:28] <nhaines> akk: they said it like it wasn't a lot of extra work.  :)
[22:29] <kevin4942941> have you looked at the source kdub?
[22:29] <kdub> its not that much, at the end of the day, X needs is a buffer to render to and wayland provides that
[22:29] <akk> I'd guess this is just the basic X protocol, and not all the elaborate details about modeswitching and GL windows and things.
[22:29] <kevin4942941> gotta' go pick up the nephews
[22:29] <akk> (I hope ... sure would be great to see all that stuff go away!)
[22:29] <kdub> thats the plan
[22:30] <nhaines> Unity with a maximized GNOME Terminal and byobu is my new definition of happiness.
[22:31] <nhaines> If they get the new Ayatana-style scrollbars into natty that'd be even better.  Not in terms of UI freeze better, though.  :P
[22:31] <pleia2> I haven't even looked at byobu, screen is so simple and "works fine" :)
[22:32]  * crashsystems is loving 11.04
[22:35] <akk> Only thing I don't like about screen is that it sometimes decides its size is 80x24
[22:35] <akk> and then no act of god besides restarting will get it out of that mode
[22:36] <akk> (I use it to talk to plug computers over a serial line, and their busybox vi causes this, so once you've edited anything, you're forever stuck at 24 lines)
[22:42] <nhaines> pleia2: byobu makes screen a lot more useful when you're on a remote terminal.  Tells you the host and a lot of system stats.  :)
[22:48] <pleia2> ah, interesting
[22:55] <nhaines> pleia2: http://ubuntuone.com/p/k4g/
[23:02] <kevin4942941> i wanted to apologize to the channel, that whole conflict could have been avoided had i chosen my words more carefully from the beginning.
[23:02] <kevin4942941> i'll be more careful
[23:05] <pleia2> thank you kevin4942941
[23:24] <iheartubuntu> ... yah and that when i split my pants and had to walk around Tijuana with my underwear showing the whole day! hahaaa!
[23:24] <iheartubuntu> ohhh
[23:24] <iheartubuntu> whoops
[23:24] <iheartubuntu> wrong chat box
[23:25]  * iheartubuntu EMBARRASSED
[23:25] <pleia2> hahahaha
[23:25] <pleia2> iheartubuntu++
[23:25]  * iheartubuntu has turned a dark shade of Ubuntu Eggplant
[23:26] <iheartubuntu> wow. beer time.
[23:26] <pleia2> isn't that the kind of thing that's supposed to happen in Tijuana?
[23:26] <iheartubuntu> not by accident :)
[23:26] <pleia2> hehe
[23:26] <iheartubuntu> it was an old pair of pants
[23:27] <iheartubuntu> i didnt notice my pants were COMPLETELY split down the center until i looked down while sitting at a bullfight.
[23:27] <pleia2> nice one
[23:27] <iheartubuntu> i topped wearing butt huggers from that day forward
[23:27] <iheartubuntu> stopped
[23:27] <iheartubuntu> never forget that one
[23:28] <iheartubuntu> no photos thankfully
[23:28] <pleia2> hehe
[23:36] <nhaines> iheartubuntu: at a bullfight?  Just be glad you weren't wearing red boxers!
[23:37] <pleia2> lol
[23:38] <nhaines> I'm trying to think whether or not the new Ubuntu logo for the Unity launcher makes me think differently about the button.
[23:40] <nhaines> Or feel differently, rather.
[23:40] <nhaines> I guess it looks more button-like because of the proxmity to the window controls.
[23:47] <iheartubuntu> i tried running 11.04 from a live disc last night and it had all sorts of errors when it booted up. not fun. shut it down and went to bed.
[23:49] <iheartubuntu> nhaines - no but my face was red
[23:50] <iheartubuntu> it was not a good day for a very shy 14 yo boy :)
[23:50] <iheartubuntu> sure was breezy and i couldnt figure out why
[23:51] <akk> They probably all thought you were demonstrating a new cutting-edge fashion
[23:51] <akk> like Madonna
[23:56] <iheartubuntu> "like a virgin" would have been a fitting song