=== skaet is now known as skaet_afk
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
=== jjohansen is now known as jj-afk
=== skaet_afk is now known as skaet
=== skaet is now known as skaet_
=== rsalveti` is now known as rsalveti
=== skaet_ is now known as skaet_afk
=== jj-afk is now known as jjohansen
=== doko_ is now known as doko
=== thermi is now known as Thermi
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
=== DJones is now known as djones
=== skaet_afk is now known as skaet_
MootBotMeeting started at 10:03. The chair is robbiew.16:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:03
robbiew[TOPIC] Lightning Round16:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Lightning Round16:04
evplease to come back around?16:05
robbiewev: ohhhh16:05
robbiewyou miss the mumble16:05
robbiewnow not ready16:05
robbiewtsk tsk16:05
evyeah, I'm a terrible person16:05
robbiew40 lashes16:05
nigelbI read that as slashes...16:06
mvoApp-install-data update for beta116:06
mvoApt-clone: fix FTBFS, upload new version16:06
mvoApt: discussion about the mirror method, more fixes in the mirror method, upload16:06
mvoAptdaemon: debug/fix parse error in configparser, add regression test, relax lintian checks in aptdaemon (lp:~mvo/aptdaemon/relax-linitina-checks)16:06
mvoAuto-upgrade-tester: debug bug in python post-upgrade test code, deploy/verify the fix on pommerac, look at OOo upgrade failure in main-all16:06
mvopatch-pilot (#735262, pangomm, #730144, lp:~ted/ubuntu-dev-tools/create-new-milestone, #698208, #730365, #642913, #732457)16:06
mvoperformance review (that took a bit)16:06
mvoPython-apt: add "strip_multiarch" parameter to parse_depends, add xz support in python/arfile.cc16:06
mvosoftware-center: branch merges, bugfixes, fixes in the stats handling, review/merge cmdline apps launcher branch and tweak it (shows commandline tools now),16:06
mvoquid-deb-proxy: fix permissons of 30autoproxy (#697955), add logrotate (#718923), merge fix for #686265, merge sysv init script, move avahi advertise into main upstart job16:06
mvosudo: Sudo: look into upgrade prompt #690873 and upload fix (was a bit overly cautious with this one probably), thanks to Colin for his review16:06
mvoUser-setup: add fix to avoid double adding %admin in sudoers (thanks to Colin for his review)16:06
robbiewI'm convinced mvo is a bot16:06
cjwatsonmvo: you know, I was just going to ask you about xz support16:07
mvoha! iRobot, or rather uRobot16:07
cjwatsonmvo: do apt and python-apt now have xz everywhere they have lzma?16:07
mvoyes, they should be16:08
cjwatsonwe'll want to backport that to lucid-cat, so that we can use it to deploy data.tar.xz support in Launchpad16:08
mvoincidently I created one for squeeze already, so that should be straightforward16:08
mvohow urgent is it? I can try to squeeze it in today16:08
cjwatsonsometime this week would be fine - just trying to arrange that we can use it next cycle16:09
cjwatsondebExtract is the bit that LP uses directly16:09
cjwatson(not sure that's the same as the bit that dak uses)16:10
robbiewthnx mvo16:11
dokogcc-4.6 release packages, test rebuilds, multiarch fixes (and ongoing) ...16:11
dokoopenjdk pre-release builds16:11
barrybug 711225 (subprocess.Popen() crash); python upstream bug 11677 (test perf probs on ecryptfs); upstream bug 11715 (multiarch build failures); pep 396 (module version numbers); udd stakeholders meeting; tech talk; performance reviews; gsoc 2011; done.16:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 711225 in python-apt (Ubuntu Natty) "subprocess.Popen() crashed with TypeError in _cleanup(): an integer is required" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71122516:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 11677 in hotplug (Ubuntu) "Agpgart is blocking Nvidia's agp driver causing bad performance" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167716:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 11715 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu) "nfs-utils: new changes from Debian require merging" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1171516:12
mvothanks for 711225 \o/16:12
barrymvo: that was fun!  and i got a good blog posting out of it :)16:13
mvocjwatson: I just noticed the pyhton-apt change is not uploaded yet into natty, I can do that now or after the freeze16:13
cjwatsoneither will be fine, thanks16:14
robbiewbarry: thnx!16:15
jhunt_cat <<EOT16:15
jhunt_Updates to Upstart Cookbook (including documenting build process).16:15
jhunt_Appraisal work. Discussions and review with csurbhi on initramfs changes16:15
robbiew\o/ for the Upstart Cookbook16:16
robbiewjhunt_: thnx16:16
evHelping yaili with the desktop tour, working with mpt on a few o-series installer specifications (handling a damaged windows partition, redesigning the advanced partitioner, ...). Working with mpt and allison on identifying the application development process pain points for platform futures and presenting that to Rick and Matt.16:17
evUbiquity bug gardening. Finally merged in the unit tests branch of ubiquity, then beat it into working on the buildds. Fixing installer beta milestoned bugs and battling gtk to the death (why can't we have a decent layout engine?).16:17
evTesting the upgrade/reinstall stuff and attempting to fix problems along the way (big thanks to mvo for apt-clone 0.1.2); still need to fix duplicate entries in sources.list.  Got a new slideshow fixed up and out the door, with at least one more major dump of images before 11.04 final (from the desktop tour work).16:17
robbiewpsurbhi is out sick16:18
robbiew[TOPIC] Natty16:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Natty16:18
robbiewBeta 1 tomorrow...the flood of bugs is near!16:19
cjwatsonhi, you missed me :)16:19
robbiewdamn it16:19
robbiew[TOPIC] Lightning Round...part 216:19
MootBotNew Topic:  Lightning Round...part 216:19
cjwatsondone: wubi-related grub move-mount bug (738345); backport a bunch of plymouth patches (553745, 518926, 546251); sponsor backport of w3m <button> patch (683337); fix grub-setup if first partition isn't near start of disk (691569); initramfs adjustment for multiarch (728611); installer wrong keymap boot parameters (742558); generally trying to keep on top of ISO-testing installer bugs; wrote a bunch more GRUB ...16:19
cjwatson... documentation, especially what all the environment variables do; performance reviews16:19
cjwatsontodo: continue trying to keep on top of ISO-testing installer bugs; I've been trying to milestone things for beta-2 as we go along16:19
cjwatsonthere, wasn't that exciting16:19
robbiew[TOPIC] Natty...again :/16:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Natty...again :/16:20
* barry can exhale again!16:20
robbiewso I haven't checked...but do we have any outstanding workitems or features?16:20
robbiewif so, probably need to be postponed/deferred16:21
robbiewto either Oneiric...or Oblivion ;)16:21
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html16:21
cjwatsonI have a few open items which can be tweaked16:21
* mvo too16:22
cjwatson(bugs on the WI list are hard to move sometimes)16:22
barryme three16:22
cjwatsonsurbhi's event-based-initramfs work was always intended for o anyway16:22
cjwatsondoko has a stack of toolchain items16:22
cjwatsonev has an oem-config item (start plymouth from ubiquity - did this happen?) and a couple of usb-creator bug-fixes16:23
cjwatsonand there are some foreign items16:23
robbiewyeah...I can ignore the foreign items16:24
robbiewor "clean" them later ;)16:24
robbiewhttps://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-linaro-n-toolchain-selection was never approved16:25
robbiewa little odd it would be tracked16:25
evcjwatson: no, I wasn't able to sufficiently untangle X in time16:25
dokook, I'll update these16:25
evthe usb-creator ones are non-issues.  It already works with apport.16:25
robbiewdoko: ok, thnx16:25
evI'll close those out and defer the oem-config one16:25
robbiewev: thx16:25
robbiewmoving on...16:26
robbiew[TOPIC] Oneiric16:26
MootBotNew Topic:  Oneiric16:26
MootBotLINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning16:27
robbiewcreated this16:27
robbiewpretty empty atm16:27
robbiewI think I should I make a call for Foundations topic... similar to Ubuntu Server16:28
robbiewwe don't have our own list, so ubuntu-devel will have to do16:28
robbiewbut I can request people add some sort of tag in the subject line, to make it easy to track16:28
cjwatsonthat sounds fair16:29
robbiewI suppose we could have a free-for-all on the wiki...but that gets crazy16:29
robbiewI'll send something out today16:29
robbiew[TOPIC] AOB/GoodNews?16:30
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB/GoodNews?16:30
* ev had already started free-for-all'ing it. *Uncommits*16:30
mvowe have a production ratings&reviews server now (before we just (ab)used staging)16:30
dokowatch this: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html16:30
evubiquity finally has a set of unit tests that run during build, so hopefully that will be enough to motivate us to not let them bitrot16:31
robbiewev: no worries on adding16:31
robbiewev: I just don't want to promote people doing it ;)16:32
evoh, the unwashed masses16:32
evgotcha ;)16:32
robbiewdoko: is the rebuild done?16:33
robbiewmvo: \o/ on RnR production server16:33
dokorobbiew: https://launchpad.net/builders/16:35
robbiewyou know...a simple yes or no works too16:35
dokoi386 at m, amd64 at l in main, universe not yet started16:35
robbiewgot it...thnx16:36
robbiewanything else?16:36
dokoand armel at c, will take some weeks16:36
dokohalf of the buildds down :-/16:36
robbiewdon't worry...soon we'll be drowning in ARM servers :P16:37
robbiewand with that bit of humor?16:37
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:37.16:37
robbiewthnx all!16:37
barrythanks robbiew !16:37
Riddellhello Kubuntu meeting18:00
Riddellneversfelde, apachelogger, rgreening, ScottK: council ping18:00
Riddellhmm, two council members18:01
ScottKI think we have a quorum.18:02
ScottK4 even18:02
Riddellwell hello friends, let's start with memberships18:02
* BluesKaj observes18:02
Riddellsteveire_ wants to be a member, steveire_ can you tell us who you are and what you do in Kubuntu?18:02
steveire_Yep, sure18:03
steveire_I have been a kubuntu user for several years and use it for kde development18:03
steveire_Generally my contribs to kubuntu come in the form of bug reports and patches to make kubuntu better for my development tasks18:04
steveire_I'm also a contact-guy of sorts for kontact/kde pim18:04
steveire_in the irc channel18:04
Riddellit's certainly nice having an upstream developer in the channel, we'll have some questions for you about natty's kdepim coming up I suspect18:04
steveire_I'd like to more in the form of developer mentoring, like the ubuntu app developer week18:04
* rgreening notes make PIM faster is a bug/feature request for me18:05
steveire_But I can't do the next one because I'll be travelling then18:05
ScottKIt looks like most of your work is upstream.18:05
steveire_And I intend to do a lot of kdepim 4.6 testing on kubuntu18:05
Riddellsteveire_: your karma shows lots of bzr branches, what are they? https://launchpad.net/~steveire/+karma18:05
ScottKsteveire_:  How do you feel about Kubuntu's relationship with the rest of the Ubuntu project?18:06
steveire_Riddell: I don't know.18:06
steveire_Maybe grantlee commits?18:06
Riddelloh aye, grantlee is on launchpad18:06
Riddellsteveire_: what attracts you to kubuntu over other distros?18:06
apacheloggersteveire_: any predictions on when Kubuntu will reach world domination?18:07
steveire_ScottK: Yes, most of my FOSS work is directly KDE related. The kubuntu related stuff I do is not as big a focus of mine as the upstream kde stuff. I just work on kubuntu stuff where I try to make the developer experience better18:07
steveire_Riddell: Familiarity mostly. I know how to handle deb packages, but always stuggle on meego :)18:08
steveire_ScottK: What relation to the rest of the project do you mean?18:08
steveire_In terms of how it's viewed?18:09
rgreeningsteveire_: What, if anything, would you change with how Kubuntu looks and feels as a distro and as a representative of KDE18:09
ScottKIf you're a Kubuntu member, you're also an Ubuntu member so I'm curious how you think things are working with the larger Ubunt project.18:09
steveire_rgreening: I wouldn't change much. I'm not certain how much kubuntu already changes in KDE, as I'm a konsole kinda guy for a lot of things.18:10
Riddellsteveire_: you missed out apachelogger's question18:11
rgreeningRiddell: that was a real question... :)18:12
steveire_ScottK: I'm still not certain about what you mean about how it's working. Apart from reading planet ubuntu I don't read more into the larger ubuntu project.18:12
steveire_apachelogger: No predictions yet, no. Those can often come back to bite one :)18:13
apacheloggervery true indeed ^^18:13
steveire_Let's see how the touch/mobile variants progress and see18:13
* BluesKaj thought apachelogger's question was rhetorical18:13
steveire_That's a growth vector for sure18:13
Riddellwell, a quandry, is someone who is mostly an upstream developer but likes to makes links to downstream doing enough for that all important @kubuntu.org address18:13
steveire_Riddell: My application is about satifying that curiousity exactly.18:14
* rgreening thinks having a PIM guy on the team is a worthwhile thing18:14
BluesKajwell, back to the trenches....later all18:14
Riddellsteveire_: would you consider coming to an Ubuntu Developer Summit?18:15
rgreeningmy biggest pet peeves of late surround the whole new PIM stack and having someone who can make that experience better under Kubuntu works for me18:15
steveire_Riddell: Can't do the next one (It's in May, right)18:15
steveire_But in general, yes, I've heard good things18:16
steveire_If it's in Europe :) Not a big fan of transatlantic flights18:17
RiddellI think I'm a 0 on the voting, on the one hand steveire_ is a lovely guy who's doing useful upstream stuff and some linking to Kubuntu but I'm not sure I've seen enough linking to call that significant and sustained yet18:17
Riddellrgreening, ScottK, apachelogger: got votes/more questions?18:18
apacheloggersteveire_: What qualifies you best to become a Kubuntu memeber?18:19
rgreeningsteveire_: are you willing to help make PIM not just developer, but user freindly for Kubuntu?18:19
rgreeninge.g. how would/could you help on this for Kubuntu?18:19
Riddellinstalling natty beta and stopping it popping up evil dialogues by default would be a wonderful help18:19
steveire_apachelogger: Probably that I'm reachable to other kubuntu peeps on pim issues and file bug reports.18:20
steveire_rgreening: Yes. Starting with making that dialog a plasma popup and giving more info on what the problem is (usually it's an unchecked 'Nepomuk enabled' checkbox in syssettings, but I plan to do that anyway.18:21
ScottKBut what if I want Nepomuk not to be enabled?18:21
steveire_I have the natty iso, but didn't install it yet as I need to do a training with my laptop soon18:22
ScottKIf it's a live cd, you can do this from a live sesson.18:22
ScottKNo need to actually install.18:22
steveire_ScottK: Then you don't get search and kmail has to tell you why, but that's a technical discussion anyway18:22
ScottKI ask because I don't actually own any hardware where I get acceptable performance with it.18:22
Riddellthe live CD has different errors (nepomuk) from the installed sessions (other random things)18:22
rgreeningsteveire_: awesome. FOr me, my daily use on my Kubuntu is E-mail, Web and Cal/Schedule/Contacts. This is typical user stuff and 66% is PIM related. So this is important for a broad base.18:23
rgreeningI give a +1 for bringing some love to PIM to Kubuntu, and hopes on more to come.18:24
* Riddell nudges ScottK and apachelogger 18:25
* apachelogger needs to flip a coin18:25
valoriewhat, no blood pledges to give 100% efforts to bring Kubuntu world domination?18:27
apacheloggeroh right18:28
* rgreening thinks ScottK either died at the keyboard or didn't hear you nudge him Riddel :)18:28
ScottKI'm +0 on this one.  I've seen good work from steveire_ on helping with upstream coordination and getting issues resolved, but I'd like to see more involvement with K(U)buntu as a project.18:28
valorieI have no vote, but a useful PIM would be sooo nice18:28
apachelogger+1, iff steveire_ makes kubuntu go world domination18:28
Riddellanyone remember the agrees voting method for split votes?18:28
ScottKI don't think we can do conditional votes.18:28
rgreeningwith an extra 'f' to boot18:28
Riddellsteveire_: I think we need to get neversfelde and jontheenchilada to vote too, so we'll discuss it by e-mail and get back to you18:29
valoriesteveire_: do you have a LoCo?18:29
apacheloggerRiddell: it would still need quorum18:29
valoriethat's a nice way to 1. get out18:30
Riddellsteveire_: thanks for taking the grilling18:30
valorieand 2. see other *buntu users18:30
valorieand 3. convert them to KOObuntu users18:30
RiddellI have a couple other items of business, anyone else have business items?18:30
rgreeningsteveire_: regardless, please keep up the hard work on PIM!!! :)18:30
ScottKI'd rather people convert Windows users.18:30
valoriestill working on that, also18:31
ScottKsteveire_: Definitely appreciate the contributions.  Please keep it up.18:31
Riddellhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2011-March/005057.html  is unanswered18:31
Riddellwe need a team name for packaging branches18:31
* apachelogger thinks we should put stronger focus on solaris user18:31
RiddellI'm thinking  kubuntu-packagers18:31
steveire_Thanks, sorry I was distracted IRL for a few minutes there.18:32
apacheloggerRiddell: works for me18:32
rgreeningwfm as well18:33
steveire_valorie: I have the Berlin one I guess, and was half planning on going to the gnome release thingy18:33
Riddellapproved on kubuntu-packagers!18:33
steveire_I've gotta run. Bye!18:34
ScottKRiddell: I think that's fine.18:34
valoriewe don't have to recruit *buntu users, really, but it's good to be part of the community18:34
rgreeningl8r steveire_18:34
Riddellmy other business item was a question, what would happen to Kubuntu if I disappeared for six months?18:34
ScottKThat would be "bad"18:34
valoriescary thought18:34
rgreeningRiddell: well, depends... do you hand off before you leave or just disappear?18:35
Riddellsurely we have enough community that it would continue well enough?18:35
rgreeningjust disappear == rocky road for sure18:35
rgreeningrocky != fail though18:35
shadeslayerRiddell: sure .. just clone yourself before you leave :P18:35
valorieRiddell, you have quite a bit in your head18:35
ScottKRiddell: We could mostly muddle through, but there are some points where having a Canonical person is just about essential.18:35
apacheloggervalorie would take leadership and lead us into battle against windows, after 3 months we would have won and realized that we should have really targetted solaris18:36
nigelbapachelogger: Good one.  I agree.18:36
RiddellScottK: why a canonical person?  for the hours or something else?18:36
rgreeningRiddell: document the bits you do for Kubuntu openly and behind the scenes and then ask yourself if they are necessary and who could take on the pieces (may be more than one)18:36
apacheloggerScottK: we also know plenty of other canonical employees18:36
ScottKFor the hours and for sometimes you can reach people we have trouble getting.18:36
shadeslayerRiddell: seriously ... we would appoint apachelogger as our leader and our next release would be called phononbuntu18:36
shadeslayeror javabuntu ... whichever wins18:37
apacheloggerthe coin decides18:37
valoriefor actual seriously, Riddell 1. knows a lot, 2. does a lot, 3. facilitates tremendously18:37
rgreeningRiddell: is this pure conjecture or do you have a real reason for asking?18:37
shadeslayerindeed ^^18:37
macoyeah, what rgreening asked18:38
apacheloggerRiddell: the community is strong these days, so I am pretty sure we could manage :)18:38
Riddellvalorie: I'm not sure I know a lot that others don't, that's the nice thing about an open project18:38
valoriethinking about taking a cycle off?18:38
macoor going on rotation with another team...18:38
RiddellI'm pondering doing a rotation to another part of canonical for the next cycle, to keep my elite skills fresh18:38
valoriewell, you've been in Kub. since the beginning18:38
rgreeningRiddell: ah. cool18:39
ScottKRiddell: Maybe if we get agateau in exchange.18:39
valorieso you have that sense of history18:39
macoScottK: thats what i was gonna say18:39
rgreeningRiddell: so, not disappear then. As your replacement could always refer to you in some fasion behind the scenes if necessary.18:39
RiddellScottK: that would need him to talk nicely to his manager, assuming he'd even want to18:39
Riddellrgreening: there probably wouldn't be a replacement18:39
apacheloggeragateau: action item for you ^ :)18:40
ScottKRiddell: We'd survive and I think this next cycle would be better than the one after.  Eventually you will need to do something else.18:40
rgreeninghmm.... so let me ask longer term.... if you do not come back, what does the community do? Canonical has put support behind Kubuntu via you, and if that disappears, what does that mean from Canonical supporting Kubuntu18:41
Riddellrgreening: I'd expect to come back18:41
ScottKrgreening: Let's not get the cart before the horse.18:41
* apachelogger nods18:41
valorieI think the rest of us could do some of the facilitation18:42
* rgreening has to think worst case scenario to be sure we cover our bases (I'm in mgmt so it's what I do best)18:42
apacheloggerrgreening: also I would believe that is a question canonical management would have to be asking themselfs18:42
valorieand the doing - but you are full-time18:42
valoriethat's a lot of work18:42
Riddelluseful food for thought, I'll give it some pondering, thanks all18:43
rgreeningexactly, it's one less paid FT Kubuntu/KDE person18:43
Riddellany other business?18:43
rgreeningnot here18:43
dokolook at the build failures ...18:43
apacheloggeragenda says something about beta stuff18:43
valoriedo you know when UDS sponsorship emails will be sent?18:43
Riddelloh aye, how's beta doing, anyone else tested it?18:43
RiddellI think it's reasonable beta quality18:44
macomy natty system at home seems happy18:44
apacheloggerdoko: what build failures?18:44
Riddellexcept for kubuntu-mobile which is rebuilding18:44
ScottKRiddell: Can we revert your notifications change in k-d-s for Quassel?  They've been on since the beginning and it undoes existing user settings on upgrade?18:44
apacheloggeractually, if I may hijack the topic18:44
apacheloggerwe need more people on mobile18:44
RiddellScottK: not a fan of message indicator now?18:44
apacheloggerso we probably should do some promotional stuff to possibly attract minions18:45
Riddellapachelogger: mobile hasn't seen a lot of love this cycle, lack of anything to run the stock images on is presumably an issue18:45
ScottKRiddell: MI is fine, but I still want to see the content of the message in a notification (this is what Ubuntu does, AFAIK)18:45
RiddellScottK was talking about getting n900 images up18:45
apacheloggerRiddell: more a problem of people breaking the stack ever so often :/18:45
ScottKI'm also working on getting mx51 images stood up next week too.18:46
rgreeningbeta seems fine here.18:46
RiddellScottK: is that consistent with what we do in kopete?18:46
apacheloggerat any rate, what we need is people to work on it and get annoyed of its present shortcomings and then do something about them18:46
ScottKRiddell: IIRC, yes.18:46
ScottKI know I get notified on IM stuff.18:46
ScottKI didn't change that one.18:46
* apachelogger notes that this stuff is usually a lot more tedious than on a desktop or netbook target thus more engineering power is needed18:47
valorieisn't kopete dead?18:47
Riddellvalorie: it's our default IM client18:47
ScottKStill the standard KDE IM client.18:47
ScottKNot quite the same as dead.18:47
valoriestudent wanted to do a Kopete GSoC and couldn't find a mentor18:47
Riddellany other quassel users want to argue with ScottK ?18:47
apacheloggertelepathy shall probably replace it at one point or another18:47
ScottKvalorie: That's unmaintained part speaking.18:48
apacheloggervalorie, ScottK: also shit in focus to telepathy :P18:48
valorieI don't use IM beyond the occasional gtalk18:48
apacheloggerno point investing in a product that is going away in the long run18:48
ScottKapachelogger: Sure.  I'm not much of an IM user.18:49
shadeslayercompiling telepathy is currently a PITA18:49
ScottKOf course all products go away inthe long run, so you can take that POV too far.18:49
shadeslayeri've been at it for about 1.5 days18:49
ScottKRiddell: What say you?18:49
ScottKshadeslayer: Get a bigger laptop.18:49
* apachelogger notes that he still doubts the telepathy architecture, but that is a story for another time18:49
apacheloggerScottK: like that is possible ^^18:49
shadeslayerScottK: i'm broke :P18:49
RiddellScottK: on quassel?  go ahead and revert if you think it's important18:50
shadeslayerapachelogger: sure why not, i could get a 17" ?18:50
Riddellpersonally I found the popups annoying but I suppose it depends on how many people ping you18:50
ScottKWell I think size is not the important metric.  If it were, you'd have been done in 5 minutes.18:50
ScottKRiddell: I will.  It's a deviation from upstream where the need isn't clear.18:50
Riddellok I've got to go18:51
ScottK(MI only ~replaces the action button, not the actual notification)18:51
Riddellthanks for the meeting everyone18:51
shadeslayerScottK: not exactly ..some stuff was too old for telepathy, some of it was too new18:51
shadeslayerapachelogger: ciao18:51
ScottKshadeslayer: Oh, well upstream insanity also makes things fun.18:51
valoriegood meeting, all18:51
apacheloggershadeslayer: jr is leaving, not me :P18:51
shadeslayerthank god i can mess around with neon18:52
* apachelogger has 500 mails to write18:52
shadeslayerRiddell: would moving to another team mean you will contribute less to KDE too?18:52
valoriethat would suck18:53
* highvoltage can't imagine anything getting in the way of Riddell contributing to KDE19:04
inetprohighvoltage: why?19:15
dokoapachelogger: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html   rebuild still running, see the email to u-d-a19:21
highvoltageinetpro: because he's a Jonathan. he's unstoppable.19:30
inetproha :-)19:30
* stgraber waves19:57
stgraberhighvoltage: ping19:57
highvoltagestgraber: pong19:57
highvoltagestgraber: are you and M going to make it back in time?19:58
stgrabermgariepy and I will have to skip this meeting, sorry19:58
highvoltagestgraber: ok19:58
stgraberjust left the US19:58
highvoltageouch, ok19:58
highvoltagewho else is here for the Edubuntu meeting?19:58
highvoltagehere's the Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda19:59
highvoltageand the roadmap wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap20:00
highvoltageBeta 1 release is happening tomorrow, we're mostly looking good for that, I've been testing upgrades today20:00
highvoltageas well as i386/amd64 DVD installs20:01
highvoltagestill have to test LTSP but at least it installed fine20:01
highvoltageI missed some icons in the installer slideshow, but it's not critical, I hope to get a freeze exception for those20:01
highvoltagewe still also have italc crashing on amd64, which is weird since we thought we removed it from the live session20:02
highvoltageRubén Romero y Cordero has been working on improving the relationship between Debian-Edu/Skolelinux and Edubuntu20:03
highvoltagehe arranged for the Debian guys to join us for this meeting so that we can discuss collaboration, unfortunately I don't know their nicks, are you guys here?20:04
* huayra would be Rubén20:04
arntI am the board leader in FRISK the member organization for DebianEdu20:04
highvoltageah right! hi huayra and arnt :)20:05
arntFRISK  is short for "Free software in the schools" , an organization that promots the use of the FLOSS software in the Norwegian schools20:06
huayrahi highvoltage and the rest of the edubuntu team20:06
arnthi highvoltage20:06
highvoltagewould you mind giving some introductions? unfortunately everyone isn't here, but it would be nice for the logs (I'll post it to the lists) and I'll take the liberty of introducing marc/staphane who can't be here right now20:06
arnthi the rest :)20:06
alkisgHi arnt and huayra :)20:07
highvoltageI'm Jonathan Carter, I work for Révolution Linux that implements a full range of Linux solutions, we have many schools and educational institutions as clients and it's an important part of what we do20:08
* alkisg is a Greek teacher, promoting (ed)ubuntu/ltsp in greek schools (about 200 so far)20:08
highvoltagemgariepy and stgraber also works with me, they're on their way back from the US (we're based in Canada) so they couldn't make it for this meeting20:08
arntMy name is Arnt Ove Gregersen, I work as a system developer at day time creating map related software , in my spare time I am the board leader for FRISK the DebianEdu member organization that works to promote FLOSS software in Norway20:08
highvoltagethe active members on https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members/+members is pretty much who's been recently active in Edubuntu. as you see it's a small team20:09
highvoltagemhall119, who's usually around also works on Qimo4kids, a distribution for young kids: http://www.qimo4kids.com/20:10
* huayra is an Ubuntu Member and FRISK board member. Contact member for the Norwegian LoCo team. work with sales of Free Software. driver of SpreadUbuntu. Have a love for Skolelinux and Edubuntu, so it makes sense for me to do what I do (whatever it is I am doing)20:11
highvoltagewe've worked together to get some qimo packages into ubuntu. for the next release we should have a full qimo system available in the archives. it would actually be quite nice to have it available for debian as well20:11
arntsounds like a good idea20:12
highvoltagein terms of what edubuntu does, it's not that far off from skolelinux/debian-edu. here are some screenshots of what we install: http://edubuntu.org/screenshots20:12
huayrathe usual route is Debian>Ubuntu IMHU20:12
huayraIs there a way to get it the other way around in a smooth way that you know of, highvoltage (or anyone else?)20:13
highvoltagehuayra: indeed. we have some things in Ubuntu that's not packaged in Debian yet, like Nanny, for example20:13
mhall119highvoltage: I missed the deadline to get anythign new into Natty's archives, I'll re-group and shoot for Oniric20:13
highvoltagehuayra: personally I'd want to become a Debian maintainer, so I'd love to do more Debian work, but I'll just need a sponsor20:13
mhall119one of these days I'll remember how to spell it20:13
alkisgΟνειρικό :)20:13
mhall119if I can get some help, I'd love to get qimo packaged for debian20:14
huayrahighvoltage, I know several debian developers in the company I work at. I am not sure how that process work, but we could have a private chat on that afterwards and see what we can do20:14
highvoltagehuayra: vagrantc is going to help me with some ltsp packages, but if I could have some people willing to sponsor from the debian-edu side, that would be great20:14
mhall119oh dang, this is a meething, and not #edubuntu, /me attention fail20:14
huayrathere is a lot of good will in the debian-edu site AFAIK20:15
highvoltagehuayra: great. there are other packages too like librecad, and also a bunch of other stuff we'd like to get in that would be more appropriate with the debian -> ubuntu route20:15
huayraPeople are positive to work with Edubuntu as long as we work towards concrete results20:15
huayraarnt, am I right?20:15
highvoltageI think it's like that from both sides :)20:16
huayraThat is my impression from the Debian-edu dev meeting I assisted to, at least20:16
huayrahighvoltage, indeed :)20:16
highvoltageheck, I'd even be happy if we can start communicating more :)20:16
highvoltagebut getting packages into debian would be a good start, imho20:16
highvoltageat least, our steadily growing list of things that's just in the ubuntu archives and not in debian20:17
arnthuayra: it is my impression as well20:17
arntcommunication is a good thing :)20:17
highvoltagearnt: that was the IRL meeting right?20:17
arntIRL meeting ?20:18
highvoltageIRL = In Real Life (as apposed to an IRC meeting)20:18
arntah :) yes20:18
huayrayes, highvoltage. In Oslo20:18
huayraI have to admit that I didn't catch the IRL either...20:19
highvoltagehuayra mentioned before in an email that we could perhaps look at scripts and packages that would make it easier to integrate an edubuntu desktop machine into a skolelinux network20:19
highvoltagedo you have any strong feelings about that, arnt?20:19
arntyes, I guess that would be a good way to start the cooperation20:20
highvoltageI was wondering whether some people might feel that we'd try to steal desktops from debian-edu or something if we do that20:20
highvoltagebut I also think that it would be nice if we could do that, considering that we don't have the central authentication abilities in edubuntu out of the box that you have in debian-edu20:20
arntmany of our users use both debianedu and  ubuntu / edubuntu in mixed enviroment so I guess that would make many people happy20:20
huayraThat was a proposal from a debian-edu dev. And he also mentioned something like: "some people use thin clients, some use fat clients and we have to please them all"20:21
highvoltageso, so far we can already:20:21
highvoltage1. work on getting ubuntu-only packages into debian20:21
highvoltage2. work on better "interoperability" (for lack of better word right now) between edubuntu and skolelinux20:21
highvoltage(I think that's already a good start)20:22
arntme too20:22
huayrasounds good, but we should divide 2 in 2 points:20:23
highvoltageah, I guess it's also worth while mentioning a slight bit about how we make decisions20:23
highvoltagewe have the Edubuntu Council, members are listed here: https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-council20:23
huayra2.1 Ship Edubuntu with packages that integrate into a Debian-Edu server environment20:23
highvoltageproject-level decisions are usually voted on by the council, although I doubt we'll need to do anything like that today20:24
huayra2.2 Have a viable and open channel of communication between both communities where interoperability issues can be handled20:24
highvoltageI usually hang out on #debian-edu, so if anyone needs to poke someone about an ubuntu/edubuntu issue, feel free to poke me20:24
* huayra would like to emphasize: these are proposal, not orders or desicions :)20:25
highvoltage(or any of us that are there, for that matter)20:25
highvoltagehuayra: *nod*20:25
highvoltagewe're about to finish off the current ubuntu development cycle, the next release is in April20:25
highvoltageafter that comes the Ubuntu Developer Summit, a few of us will be there to flesh out the ideas and proposals made for the next release cycle20:26
highvoltagewhen planning the next release we can take debian-edu into account considering what we discussed today, and put the todo list items in our roadmap20:26
huayrais UDS in Europe or in the US this time?20:26
highvoltageBudapest: http://uds.ubuntu.com/20:27
huayraI am considering to assist, but haven't check this time around yet (real life catching up...)20:27
huayraabout time to get back to Budapest :)20:27
huayraok, sorry, please continue20:27
highvoltageno problem, I hate being the only one talking :)20:28
highvoltageat least we can do a lot of things that aren't tied to the Ubuntu release cycle20:28
highvoltagelike packaging work in debian, for example20:29
huayrahighvoltage, I can't come :( But will try to assist remotely if we can agree on setting up a meeting there that you can lead20:30
highvoltageI don't know if there's anything else we can do for Debian at this stage, but we're certainly open to ideas20:30
huayraWe could invite Debian-Edu devs to join if it makes sense20:30
highvoltagehuayra: ok, I'll be sure to send you the details when scheduling is available20:30
huayraarnt, thoughts around that?20:30
huayraalkisg, mhall119 do you have ideas or wishes?20:31
=== skaet_ is now known as skaet_otp
* mhall119 hasn't been following along, sorry20:31
highvoltagehuayra: yep, I guess not all our sessions will be interesting for everyone, but we could probably have a session where some of these things could specifically be covered20:31
arnthuayra, sounds like a good idea20:31
huayrathanks highvoltage. I'll make sure to pass the information to FRISK and hopefully get some debian-edu devs joining, at least remotely20:31
alkisghuayra: here in greece we're interested in the authentication part of skolelinux, it'd be great if that could cooperate with edubuntu desktops. So all of you covered what I wanted to say :)20:32
mhall119I will be in Budapest though20:32
mhall119if there's a session I can make20:32
huayrasounds like we have 2 points we can work on and get down and dirty with themunder UDS20:32
huayraand it seems we have enough time to get it all planned relatively well20:33
highvoltageok, back. stgraber and mgariepy also just arrived20:34
highvoltagewhat we've discussed in terms of collaboration so far, at least as proposals are:20:35
highvoltage15:24 < highvoltage> 1. work on getting ubuntu-only packages into debian20:35
highvoltage15:25 < highvoltage> 2. work on better "interoperability" (for lack of better word right now) between edubuntu and skolelinux20:35
highvoltage15:26 < huayra> 2.1 Ship Edubuntu with packages that integrate into a Debian-Edu server environment20:35
highvoltage15:27 < huayra> 2.2 Have a viable and open channel of communication between both communities where interoperability issues can be  handled20:35
huayrahi mgariepy and stgraber20:36
highvoltageand that we'll probably have at least one UDS session where debian-edu folk can participate remotely20:36
highvoltage(well, they can participate in all of them, of course, but one session at least that's focussed on collaboration, etc)20:37
highvoltagehow should we take this further? a wiki page?20:37
huayra(and they can come to Budapest if they want or even ask for sponsorship from canonical)20:37
highvoltageyep, the sponsorship deadline was yesterday, but if someone is serious about it they could probably still get in a late application20:38
huayraA wiki page sounds good. Arnt should we replicate it in our site or just use the Ubuntu Wiki?20:39
arnta real life  meeting between the developers sounds like to something we should try achieve20:39
huayraI do not want to tip on anyone toes here, so I ask this in the open :)20:39
arnthuary , at least we should link to it from our site20:39
highvoltagepersonally I don't care where it is, but it should really be something we all can edit20:39
huayrahighvoltage, indeed.20:40
highvoltageso either the ubuntu wiki or debian wiki would be ideal imho20:40
huayraArnt can we ask if any devs want to join this and ask them to apply for sponsorship. It's been a long time ago collaboration in this front happened and I am sure we can move some bricks and see if some sponsorship can be done20:41
highvoltagefwiw I'm also going to try to attend debconf later this year20:41
arntis there any information on how and where to apply ?20:41
highvoltagearnt: it's all on the UDS microsite: http://uds.ubuntu.com20:42
arntok, thanks20:42
highvoltagearnt: we might have to ask the ubuntu community manager for some intervention, since the deadline for sponsorship applications has past, but I think it's worth a try20:42
huayrahighvoltage and arnt: i can ask Jono if we get someone on board20:43
highvoltagehuayra: great, thanks for taking that20:43
stgraberhello again20:43
stgraberjust got back at the office20:43
huayrabut I will already ask him now so it's worth the effort of someone applying20:44
highvoltagestgraber: do you have a minute to glance over the scrollback and provide some feedback?20:44
arnthuayra, great20:45
huayraarnt, can you take the asking the Debian-Edu dev community about this?20:45
huayraplease :)20:45
arnthuayra, I will do so20:45
arnthuayra, we can coordinate it afterwards20:46
highvoltageis there anything else that we should discuss today?20:46
highvoltage(I'll send the logs of this discussion to both devel lists so that everyone can be up to date)20:46
arnthighvoltage, I do not think so, we should start by taking small steps in my opinion20:47
arnthighvoltage, and the above steps seems like some good steps to start with20:47
highvoltageshall we adjourne?20:49
highvoltagewe're pretty much always available in #edubuntu as well, fwiw20:49
huayraI think this is a good start, indeed20:49
arntI agree20:50
highvoltagealkisg, huayra, arnt, mgariepy, mhall119, stgraber, jever: thanks for attenting!20:50
* highvoltage hits the end of meeting gong20:50
alkisgThanks :)20:50
=== skaet_otp is now known as skaet
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-bbl
=== skaet is now known as skaet_afk
=== Thermi is now known as thermi
=== shirgall is now known as jrp-afk
=== cnd` is now known as cnd
=== skaet_afk is now known as skaet

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!