[16:02] <robbiew> o/
[16:02] <mvo> hello
[16:02] <ev> hi-o!
[16:03] <jhunt_> o/
[16:03] <barry> howdy
[16:03] <robbiew> #startmeeting
[16:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is robbiew.
[16:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:04] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
[16:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
[16:05] <robbiew> ev?
[16:05] <ev> please to come back around?
[16:05] <robbiew> ev: ohhhh
[16:05] <robbiew> you miss the mumble
[16:05] <robbiew> now not ready
[16:05] <robbiew> tsk tsk
[16:05] <robbiew> lol
[16:05] <ev> yeah, I'm a terrible person
[16:05] <robbiew> indeed
[16:05] <robbiew> 40 lashes
[16:06] <robbiew> mvo?
[16:06] <ev> hahaha
[16:06] <nigelb> I read that as slashes...
[16:06] <mvo> App-install-data update for beta1
[16:06] <mvo> Apt-clone: fix FTBFS, upload new version
[16:06] <mvo> Apt: discussion about the mirror method, more fixes in the mirror method, upload
[16:06] <mvo> Aptdaemon: debug/fix parse error in configparser, add regression test, relax lintian checks in aptdaemon (lp:~mvo/aptdaemon/relax-linitina-checks)
[16:06] <mvo> Auto-upgrade-tester: debug bug in python post-upgrade test code, deploy/verify the fix on pommerac, look at OOo upgrade failure in main-all
[16:06] <mvo> patch-pilot (#735262, pangomm, #730144, lp:~ted/ubuntu-dev-tools/create-new-milestone, #698208, #730365, #642913, #732457)
[16:06] <mvo> performance review (that took a bit)
[16:06] <mvo> Python-apt: add "strip_multiarch" parameter to parse_depends, add xz support in python/arfile.cc
[16:06] <mvo> software-center: branch merges, bugfixes, fixes in the stats handling, review/merge cmdline apps launcher branch and tweak it (shows commandline tools now),
[16:06] <mvo> quid-deb-proxy: fix permissons of 30autoproxy (#697955), add logrotate (#718923), merge fix for #686265, merge sysv init script, move avahi advertise into main upstart job
[16:06] <mvo> sudo: Sudo: look into upgrade prompt #690873 and upload fix (was a bit overly cautious with this one probably), thanks to Colin for his review
[16:06] <mvo> User-setup: add fix to avoid double adding %admin in sudoers (thanks to Colin for his review)
[16:06] <mvo> (done9
[16:06] <mvo> )
[16:06] <robbiew> I'm convinced mvo is a bot
[16:07] <cjwatson> mvo: you know, I was just going to ask you about xz support
[16:07] <mvo> ha! iRobot, or rather uRobot
[16:07] <cjwatson> mvo: do apt and python-apt now have xz everywhere they have lzma?
[16:08] <mvo> yes, they should be
[16:08] <cjwatson> we'll want to backport that to lucid-cat, so that we can use it to deploy data.tar.xz support in Launchpad
[16:08] <mvo> incidently I created one for squeeze already, so that should be straightforward
[16:08] <mvo> how urgent is it? I can try to squeeze it in today
[16:09] <cjwatson> sometime this week would be fine - just trying to arrange that we can use it next cycle
[16:09] <cjwatson> debExtract is the bit that LP uses directly
[16:10] <cjwatson> (not sure that's the same as the bit that dak uses)
[16:10] <mvo> ok
[16:11] <robbiew> thnx mvo
[16:11] <robbiew> doko?
[16:11] <doko> gcc-4.6 release packages, test rebuilds, multiarch fixes (and ongoing) ...
[16:11] <doko> openjdk pre-release builds
[16:11] <doko> ..
[16:11] <robbiew> thnx
[16:12] <robbiew> barry?
[16:12] <barry> bug 711225 (subprocess.Popen() crash); python upstream bug 11677 (test perf probs on ecryptfs); upstream bug 11715 (multiarch build failures); pep 396 (module version numbers); udd stakeholders meeting; tech talk; performance reviews; gsoc 2011; done.
[16:12] <mvo> thanks for 711225 \o/
[16:13] <barry> mvo: that was fun!  and i got a good blog posting out of it :)
[16:13] <mvo> cjwatson: I just noticed the pyhton-apt change is not uploaded yet into natty, I can do that now or after the freeze
[16:14] <cjwatson> either will be fine, thanks
[16:15] <robbiew> barry: thnx!
[16:15] <robbiew> jhunt_?
[16:15] <jhunt_> cat <<EOT
[16:15] <jhunt_> Updates to Upstart Cookbook (including documenting build process).
[16:15] <jhunt_> Appraisal work. Discussions and review with csurbhi on initramfs changes
[16:15] <jhunt_> EOT
[16:16] <robbiew> heh
[16:16] <robbiew> \o/ for the Upstart Cookbook
[16:16] <robbiew> jhunt_: thnx
[16:17] <robbiew> ev?
[16:17] <ev> Helping yaili with the desktop tour, working with mpt on a few o-series installer specifications (handling a damaged windows partition, redesigning the advanced partitioner, ...). Working with mpt and allison on identifying the application development process pain points for platform futures and presenting that to Rick and Matt.
[16:17] <ev> Ubiquity bug gardening. Finally merged in the unit tests branch of ubiquity, then beat it into working on the buildds. Fixing installer beta milestoned bugs and battling gtk to the death (why can't we have a decent layout engine?).
[16:17] <ev> Testing the upgrade/reinstall stuff and attempting to fix problems along the way (big thanks to mvo for apt-clone 0.1.2); still need to fix duplicate entries in sources.list.  Got a new slideshow fixed up and out the door, with at least one more major dump of images before 11.04 final (from the desktop tour work).
[16:17] <ev> (done)
[16:18] <robbiew> nice...thnx!
[16:18] <robbiew> psurbhi is out sick
[16:18] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Natty
[16:19] <robbiew> Beta 1 tomorrow...the flood of bugs is near!
[16:19] <cjwatson> hi, you missed me :)
[16:19] <robbiew> lol
[16:19] <robbiew> damn it
[16:19] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round...part 2
[16:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round...part 2
[16:19] <robbiew> cjwatson?
[16:19] <cjwatson> done: wubi-related grub move-mount bug (738345); backport a bunch of plymouth patches (553745, 518926, 546251); sponsor backport of w3m <button> patch (683337); fix grub-setup if first partition isn't near start of disk (691569); initramfs adjustment for multiarch (728611); installer wrong keymap boot parameters (742558); generally trying to keep on top of ISO-testing installer bugs; wrote a bunch more GRUB ...
[16:19] <cjwatson> ... documentation, especially what all the environment variables do; performance reviews
[16:19] <cjwatson> todo: continue trying to keep on top of ISO-testing installer bugs; I've been trying to milestone things for beta-2 as we go along
[16:19] <cjwatson> --
[16:19] <cjwatson> there, wasn't that exciting
[16:20] <robbiew> very!
[16:20] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty...again :/
[16:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Natty...again :/
[16:20]  * barry can exhale again!
[16:20] <robbiew> so I haven't checked...but do we have any outstanding workitems or features?
[16:21] <robbiew> if so, probably need to be postponed/deferred
[16:21] <robbiew> to either Oneiric...or Oblivion ;)
[16:21] <cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
[16:21] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-foundations.html
[16:21] <cjwatson> I have a few open items which can be tweaked
[16:22]  * mvo too
[16:22] <cjwatson> (bugs on the WI list are hard to move sometimes)
[16:22] <barry> me three
[16:22] <cjwatson> surbhi's event-based-initramfs work was always intended for o anyway
[16:22] <cjwatson> doko has a stack of toolchain items
[16:23] <cjwatson> ev has an oem-config item (start plymouth from ubiquity - did this happen?) and a couple of usb-creator bug-fixes
[16:23] <cjwatson> and there are some foreign items
[16:24] <robbiew> yeah...I can ignore the foreign items
[16:24] <robbiew> or "clean" them later ;)
[16:25] <robbiew> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-linaro-n-toolchain-selection was never approved
[16:25] <robbiew> a little odd it would be tracked
[16:25] <ev> cjwatson: no, I wasn't able to sufficiently untangle X in time
[16:25] <doko> ok, I'll update these
[16:25] <ev> the usb-creator ones are non-issues.  It already works with apport.
[16:25] <robbiew> doko: ok, thnx
[16:25] <ev> I'll close those out and defer the oem-config one
[16:25] <robbiew> ev: thx
[16:26] <robbiew> moving on...
[16:26] <robbiew> [TOPIC] Oneiric
[16:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric
[16:26] <robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning
[16:27] <robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning
[16:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning
[16:27] <robbiew> created this
[16:27] <robbiew> pretty empty atm
[16:28] <robbiew> I think I should I make a call for Foundations topic... similar to Ubuntu Server
[16:28] <robbiew> we don't have our own list, so ubuntu-devel will have to do
[16:28] <robbiew> but I can request people add some sort of tag in the subject line, to make it easy to track
[16:29] <cjwatson> that sounds fair
[16:29] <robbiew> I suppose we could have a free-for-all on the wiki...but that gets crazy
[16:29] <robbiew> imo
[16:29] <robbiew> I'll send something out today
[16:30] <robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/GoodNews?
[16:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/GoodNews?
[16:30]  * ev had already started free-for-all'ing it. *Uncommits*
[16:30] <mvo> we have a production ratings&reviews server now (before we just (ab)used staging)
[16:30] <doko> watch this: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html
[16:31] <ev> ubiquity finally has a set of unit tests that run during build, so hopefully that will be enough to motivate us to not let them bitrot
[16:31] <robbiew> ev: no worries on adding
[16:32] <robbiew> ev: I just don't want to promote people doing it ;)
[16:32] <ev> oh, the unwashed masses
[16:32] <ev> gotcha ;)
[16:32] <robbiew> heh
[16:33] <robbiew> doko: is the rebuild done?
[16:33] <robbiew> mvo: \o/ on RnR production server
[16:34] <mvo> :)
[16:35] <doko> robbiew: https://launchpad.net/builders/
[16:35] <robbiew> you know...a simple yes or no works too
[16:35] <doko> i386 at m, amd64 at l in main, universe not yet started
[16:36] <robbiew> got it...thnx
[16:36] <robbiew> anything else?
[16:36] <robbiew> once?...
[16:36] <robbiew> twice?....
[16:36] <doko> and armel at c, will take some weeks
[16:36] <robbiew> lol...ok
[16:36] <doko> half of the buildds down :-/
[16:37] <robbiew> don't worry...soon we'll be drowning in ARM servers :P
[16:37] <robbiew> and with that bit of humor?
[16:37] <robbiew> #endmeeting
[16:37] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:37.
[16:37] <robbiew> thnx all!
[16:37] <barry> thanks robbiew !
[16:38] <ev> thanks!
[16:38] <mvo> thanks
[16:38] <jhunt__> ta!
[17:58] <shadeslayer> \o
[18:00] <Riddell> hello Kubuntu meeting
[18:00] <Riddell> neversfelde, apachelogger, rgreening, ScottK: council ping
[18:00] <valorie> 0/
[18:00] <ScottK> o/
[18:01] <BluesKaj> Howdy
[18:01] <steveire_> Hi
[18:01] <Riddell> hmm, two council members
[18:01] <apachelogger> aloha
[18:01] <rgreening> hey
[18:01] <rgreening> woo-hoo
[18:02] <rgreening> 3
[18:02] <ScottK> I think we have a quorum.
[18:02] <Riddell> lovely
[18:02] <ScottK> 4 even
[18:02] <rgreening> bada-ching
[18:02] <Riddell> well hello friends, let's start with memberships
[18:02]  * BluesKaj observes
[18:02] <Riddell> steveire_ wants to be a member, steveire_ can you tell us who you are and what you do in Kubuntu?
[18:02] <shadeslayer> hey
[18:02] <debfx> o/
[18:03] <steveire_> Yep, sure
[18:03] <steveire_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/steveire
[18:03] <steveire_> I have been a kubuntu user for several years and use it for kde development
[18:04] <steveire_> Generally my contribs to kubuntu come in the form of bug reports and patches to make kubuntu better for my development tasks
[18:04] <steveire_> I'm also a contact-guy of sorts for kontact/kde pim
[18:04] <steveire_> in the irc channel
[18:04] <Riddell> it's certainly nice having an upstream developer in the channel, we'll have some questions for you about natty's kdepim coming up I suspect
[18:04] <steveire_> I'd like to more in the form of developer mentoring, like the ubuntu app developer week
[18:05]  * rgreening notes make PIM faster is a bug/feature request for me
[18:05] <steveire_> But I can't do the next one because I'll be travelling then
[18:05] <ScottK> It looks like most of your work is upstream.
[18:05] <steveire_> And I intend to do a lot of kdepim 4.6 testing on kubuntu
[18:05] <rgreening> awesome!
[18:05] <Riddell> steveire_: your karma shows lots of bzr branches, what are they? https://launchpad.net/~steveire/+karma
[18:06] <ScottK> steveire_:  How do you feel about Kubuntu's relationship with the rest of the Ubuntu project?
[18:06] <steveire_> Riddell: I don't know.
[18:06] <steveire_> Maybe grantlee commits?
[18:06] <Riddell> oh aye, grantlee is on launchpad
[18:06] <Riddell> steveire_: what attracts you to kubuntu over other distros?
[18:07] <apachelogger> steveire_: any predictions on when Kubuntu will reach world domination?
[18:07] <steveire_> ScottK: Yes, most of my FOSS work is directly KDE related. The kubuntu related stuff I do is not as big a focus of mine as the upstream kde stuff. I just work on kubuntu stuff where I try to make the developer experience better
[18:08] <steveire_> Riddell: Familiarity mostly. I know how to handle deb packages, but always stuggle on meego :)
[18:08] <steveire_> ScottK: What relation to the rest of the project do you mean?
[18:09] <steveire_> In terms of how it's viewed?
[18:09] <rgreening> steveire_: What, if anything, would you change with how Kubuntu looks and feels as a distro and as a representative of KDE
[18:09] <ScottK> If you're a Kubuntu member, you're also an Ubuntu member so I'm curious how you think things are working with the larger Ubunt project.
[18:10] <steveire_> rgreening: I wouldn't change much. I'm not certain how much kubuntu already changes in KDE, as I'm a konsole kinda guy for a lot of things.
[18:11] <Riddell> steveire_: you missed out apachelogger's question
[18:12] <rgreening> Riddell: that was a real question... :)
[18:12] <steveire_> ScottK: I'm still not certain about what you mean about how it's working. Apart from reading planet ubuntu I don't read more into the larger ubuntu project.
[18:12] <ScottK> OK.
[18:13] <steveire_> apachelogger: No predictions yet, no. Those can often come back to bite one :)
[18:13] <apachelogger> very true indeed ^^
[18:13] <steveire_> Let's see how the touch/mobile variants progress and see
[18:13]  * BluesKaj thought apachelogger's question was rhetorical
[18:13] <steveire_> That's a growth vector for sure
[18:13] <Riddell> well, a quandry, is someone who is mostly an upstream developer but likes to makes links to downstream doing enough for that all important @kubuntu.org address
[18:14] <steveire_> Riddell: My application is about satifying that curiousity exactly.
[18:14] <steveire_> :)
[18:14]  * rgreening thinks having a PIM guy on the team is a worthwhile thing
[18:14] <BluesKaj> well, back to the trenches....later all
[18:15] <Riddell> steveire_: would you consider coming to an Ubuntu Developer Summit?
[18:15] <rgreening> my biggest pet peeves of late surround the whole new PIM stack and having someone who can make that experience better under Kubuntu works for me
[18:15] <steveire_> Riddell: Can't do the next one (It's in May, right)
[18:15] <Riddell> yes
[18:16] <steveire_> But in general, yes, I've heard good things
[18:17] <steveire_> If it's in Europe :) Not a big fan of transatlantic flights
[18:17] <Riddell> I think I'm a 0 on the voting, on the one hand steveire_ is a lovely guy who's doing useful upstream stuff and some linking to Kubuntu but I'm not sure I've seen enough linking to call that significant and sustained yet
[18:18] <Riddell> rgreening, ScottK, apachelogger: got votes/more questions?
[18:19] <apachelogger> steveire_: What qualifies you best to become a Kubuntu memeber?
[18:19] <rgreening> steveire_: are you willing to help make PIM not just developer, but user freindly for Kubuntu?
[18:19] <rgreening> e.g. how would/could you help on this for Kubuntu?
[18:19] <Riddell> installing natty beta and stopping it popping up evil dialogues by default would be a wonderful help
[18:20] <steveire_> apachelogger: Probably that I'm reachable to other kubuntu peeps on pim issues and file bug reports.
[18:21] <steveire_> rgreening: Yes. Starting with making that dialog a plasma popup and giving more info on what the problem is (usually it's an unchecked 'Nepomuk enabled' checkbox in syssettings, but I plan to do that anyway.
[18:21] <ScottK> But what if I want Nepomuk not to be enabled?
[18:22] <steveire_> I have the natty iso, but didn't install it yet as I need to do a training with my laptop soon
[18:22] <ScottK> If it's a live cd, you can do this from a live sesson.
[18:22] <ScottK> No need to actually install.
[18:22] <steveire_> ScottK: Then you don't get search and kmail has to tell you why, but that's a technical discussion anyway
[18:22] <ScottK> I ask because I don't actually own any hardware where I get acceptable performance with it.
[18:22] <Riddell> the live CD has different errors (nepomuk) from the installed sessions (other random things)
[18:23] <rgreening> steveire_: awesome. FOr me, my daily use on my Kubuntu is E-mail, Web and Cal/Schedule/Contacts. This is typical user stuff and 66% is PIM related. So this is important for a broad base.
[18:24] <rgreening> I give a +1 for bringing some love to PIM to Kubuntu, and hopes on more to come.
[18:25]  * Riddell nudges ScottK and apachelogger 
[18:25]  * apachelogger needs to flip a coin
[18:25] <apachelogger> +1
[18:27] <valorie> what, no blood pledges to give 100% efforts to bring Kubuntu world domination?
[18:28] <apachelogger> oh right
[18:28]  * rgreening thinks ScottK either died at the keyboard or didn't hear you nudge him Riddel :)
[18:28] <ScottK> I'm +0 on this one.  I've seen good work from steveire_ on helping with upstream coordination and getting issues resolved, but I'd like to see more involvement with K(U)buntu as a project.
[18:28] <valorie> I have no vote, but a useful PIM would be sooo nice
[18:28] <rgreening> lol
[18:28] <apachelogger> +1, iff steveire_ makes kubuntu go world domination
[18:28] <Riddell> anyone remember the agrees voting method for split votes?
[18:28] <ScottK> I don't think we can do conditional votes.
[18:28] <rgreening> with an extra 'f' to boot
[18:29] <rgreening> hmmm
[18:29] <apachelogger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_and_only_if
[18:29] <Riddell> steveire_: I think we need to get neversfelde and jontheenchilada to vote too, so we'll discuss it by e-mail and get back to you
[18:29] <valorie> steveire_: do you have a LoCo?
[18:29] <apachelogger> Riddell: it would still need quorum
[18:30] <valorie> that's a nice way to 1. get out
[18:30] <Riddell> steveire_: thanks for taking the grilling
[18:30] <valorie> and 2. see other *buntu users
[18:30] <valorie> and 3. convert them to KOObuntu users
[18:30] <Riddell> I have a couple other items of business, anyone else have business items?
[18:30] <rgreening> steveire_: regardless, please keep up the hard work on PIM!!! :)
[18:30] <ScottK> I'd rather people convert Windows users.
[18:30] <valorie> true
[18:31] <valorie> still working on that, also
[18:31] <ScottK> steveire_: Definitely appreciate the contributions.  Please keep it up.
[18:31] <Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2011-March/005057.html  is unanswered
[18:31] <Riddell> we need a team name for packaging branches
[18:31]  * apachelogger thinks we should put stronger focus on solaris user
[18:31] <Riddell> I'm thinking  kubuntu-packagers
[18:32] <steveire_> Thanks, sorry I was distracted IRL for a few minutes there.
[18:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: works for me
[18:33] <rgreening> wfm as well
[18:33] <steveire_> valorie: I have the Berlin one I guess, and was half planning on going to the gnome release thingy
[18:33] <valorie> cool
[18:33] <Riddell> approved on kubuntu-packagers!
[18:34] <steveire_> I've gotta run. Bye!
[18:34] <ScottK> Riddell: I think that's fine.
[18:34] <valorie> we don't have to recruit *buntu users, really, but it's good to be part of the community
[18:34] <rgreening> l8r steveire_
[18:34] <Riddell> my other business item was a question, what would happen to Kubuntu if I disappeared for six months?
[18:34] <valorie> !
[18:34] <ScottK> That would be "bad"
[18:34] <valorie> scary thought
[18:35] <rgreening> Riddell: well, depends... do you hand off before you leave or just disappear?
[18:35] <Riddell> surely we have enough community that it would continue well enough?
[18:35] <rgreening> just disappear == rocky road for sure
[18:35] <rgreening> rocky != fail though
[18:35] <shadeslayer> Riddell: sure .. just clone yourself before you leave :P
[18:35] <valorie> Riddell, you have quite a bit in your head
[18:35] <ScottK> Riddell: We could mostly muddle through, but there are some points where having a Canonical person is just about essential.
[18:36] <apachelogger> valorie would take leadership and lead us into battle against windows, after 3 months we would have won and realized that we should have really targetted solaris
[18:36] <valorie> lol
[18:36] <shadeslayer> hahaha
[18:36] <nigelb> apachelogger: Good one.  I agree.
[18:36] <Riddell> ScottK: why a canonical person?  for the hours or something else?
[18:36] <rgreening> Riddell: document the bits you do for Kubuntu openly and behind the scenes and then ask yourself if they are necessary and who could take on the pieces (may be more than one)
[18:36] <apachelogger> ScottK: we also know plenty of other canonical employees
[18:36] <ScottK> For the hours and for sometimes you can reach people we have trouble getting.
[18:36] <shadeslayer> Riddell: seriously ... we would appoint apachelogger as our leader and our next release would be called phononbuntu
[18:37] <apachelogger> probably
[18:37] <shadeslayer> or javabuntu ... whichever wins
[18:37] <apachelogger> the coin decides
[18:37] <valorie> for actual seriously, Riddell 1. knows a lot, 2. does a lot, 3. facilitates tremendously
[18:37] <rgreening> Riddell: is this pure conjecture or do you have a real reason for asking?
[18:37] <shadeslayer> indeed ^^
[18:38] <maco> yeah, what rgreening asked
[18:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: the community is strong these days, so I am pretty sure we could manage :)
[18:38] <Riddell> valorie: I'm not sure I know a lot that others don't, that's the nice thing about an open project
[18:38] <valorie> thinking about taking a cycle off?
[18:38] <maco> or going on rotation with another team...
[18:38] <Riddell> I'm pondering doing a rotation to another part of canonical for the next cycle, to keep my elite skills fresh
[18:38] <valorie> well, you've been in Kub. since the beginning
[18:39] <rgreening> Riddell: ah. cool
[18:39] <ScottK> Riddell: Maybe if we get agateau in exchange.
[18:39] <valorie> so you have that sense of history
[18:39] <maco> ScottK: thats what i was gonna say
[18:39] <rgreening> Riddell: so, not disappear then. As your replacement could always refer to you in some fasion behind the scenes if necessary.
[18:39] <Riddell> ScottK: that would need him to talk nicely to his manager, assuming he'd even want to
[18:39] <Riddell> rgreening: there probably wouldn't be a replacement
[18:39] <ScottK> Certainly.
[18:40] <valorie> hmmm
[18:40] <apachelogger> agateau: action item for you ^ :)
[18:40] <ScottK> Riddell: We'd survive and I think this next cycle would be better than the one after.  Eventually you will need to do something else.
[18:41] <rgreening> hmm.... so let me ask longer term.... if you do not come back, what does the community do? Canonical has put support behind Kubuntu via you, and if that disappears, what does that mean from Canonical supporting Kubuntu
[18:41] <Riddell> rgreening: I'd expect to come back
[18:41] <ScottK> rgreening: Let's not get the cart before the horse.
[18:41]  * apachelogger nods
[18:42] <valorie> I think the rest of us could do some of the facilitation
[18:42]  * rgreening has to think worst case scenario to be sure we cover our bases (I'm in mgmt so it's what I do best)
[18:42] <apachelogger> rgreening: also I would believe that is a question canonical management would have to be asking themselfs
[18:42] <valorie> and the doing - but you are full-time
[18:42] <valorie> that's a lot of work
[18:43] <Riddell> useful food for thought, I'll give it some pondering, thanks all
[18:43] <rgreening> exactly, it's one less paid FT Kubuntu/KDE person
[18:43] <rgreening> :)
[18:43] <Riddell> any other business?
[18:43] <rgreening> not here
[18:43] <doko> look at the build failures ...
[18:43] <apachelogger> agenda says something about beta stuff
[18:43] <valorie> do you know when UDS sponsorship emails will be sent?
[18:43] <Riddell> oh aye, how's beta doing, anyone else tested it?
[18:44] <Riddell> I think it's reasonable beta quality
[18:44] <maco> my natty system at home seems happy
[18:44] <apachelogger> doko: what build failures?
[18:44] <Riddell> except for kubuntu-mobile which is rebuilding
[18:44] <ScottK> Riddell: Can we revert your notifications change in k-d-s for Quassel?  They've been on since the beginning and it undoes existing user settings on upgrade?
[18:44] <apachelogger> actually, if I may hijack the topic
[18:44] <apachelogger> we need more people on mobile
[18:44] <Riddell> ScottK: not a fan of message indicator now?
[18:45] <apachelogger> so we probably should do some promotional stuff to possibly attract minions
[18:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: mobile hasn't seen a lot of love this cycle, lack of anything to run the stock images on is presumably an issue
[18:45] <ScottK> Riddell: MI is fine, but I still want to see the content of the message in a notification (this is what Ubuntu does, AFAIK)
[18:45] <Riddell> ScottK was talking about getting n900 images up
[18:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: more a problem of people breaking the stack ever so often :/
[18:46] <ScottK> I'm also working on getting mx51 images stood up next week too.
[18:46] <rgreening> beta seems fine here.
[18:46] <Riddell> ScottK: is that consistent with what we do in kopete?
[18:46] <apachelogger> at any rate, what we need is people to work on it and get annoyed of its present shortcomings and then do something about them
[18:46] <ScottK> Riddell: IIRC, yes.
[18:46] <ScottK> I know I get notified on IM stuff.
[18:46] <ScottK> I didn't change that one.
[18:47]  * apachelogger notes that this stuff is usually a lot more tedious than on a desktop or netbook target thus more engineering power is needed
[18:47] <valorie> isn't kopete dead?
[18:47] <ScottK> Unmaintained.
[18:47] <Riddell> valorie: it's our default IM client
[18:47] <ScottK> Still the standard KDE IM client.
[18:47] <ScottK> Not quite the same as dead.
[18:47] <valorie> student wanted to do a Kopete GSoC and couldn't find a mentor
[18:47] <Riddell> any other quassel users want to argue with ScottK ?
[18:47] <apachelogger> telepathy shall probably replace it at one point or another
[18:48] <ScottK> valorie: That's unmaintained part speaking.
[18:48] <valorie> ok
[18:48] <apachelogger> valorie, ScottK: also shit in focus to telepathy :P
[18:48] <valorie> I don't use IM beyond the occasional gtalk
[18:48] <apachelogger> no point investing in a product that is going away in the long run
[18:49] <ScottK> apachelogger: Sure.  I'm not much of an IM user.
[18:49] <shadeslayer> compiling telepathy is currently a PITA
[18:49] <ScottK> Of course all products go away inthe long run, so you can take that POV too far.
[18:49] <shadeslayer> i've been at it for about 1.5 days
[18:49] <ScottK> Riddell: What say you?
[18:49] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Get a bigger laptop.
[18:49]  * apachelogger notes that he still doubts the telepathy architecture, but that is a story for another time
[18:49] <apachelogger> ScottK: like that is possible ^^
[18:49] <shadeslayer> ScottK: i'm broke :P
[18:50] <Riddell> ScottK: on quassel?  go ahead and revert if you think it's important
[18:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: sure why not, i could get a 17" ?
[18:50] <Riddell> personally I found the popups annoying but I suppose it depends on how many people ping you
[18:50] <ScottK> Well I think size is not the important metric.  If it were, you'd have been done in 5 minutes.
[18:50] <ScottK> Riddell: I will.  It's a deviation from upstream where the need isn't clear.
[18:51] <Riddell> ok I've got to go
[18:51] <ScottK> (MI only ~replaces the action button, not the actual notification)
[18:51] <Riddell> thanks for the meeting everyone
[18:51] <ScottK> Later.
[18:51] <shadeslayer> ScottK: not exactly ..some stuff was too old for telepathy, some of it was too new
[18:51] <apachelogger> cya
[18:51] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ciao
[18:51] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Oh, well upstream insanity also makes things fun.
[18:51] <shadeslayer> indeed
[18:51] <valorie> good meeting, all
[18:51] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: jr is leaving, not me :P
[18:52] <shadeslayer> thank god i can mess around with neon
[18:52]  * apachelogger has 500 mails to write
[18:52] <shadeslayer> Riddell: would moving to another team mean you will contribute less to KDE too?
[18:53] <valorie> that would suck
[18:53] <valorie> badly
[18:54] <shadeslayer> yeah
[19:04]  * highvoltage can't imagine anything getting in the way of Riddell contributing to KDE
[19:15] <inetpro> highvoltage: why?
[19:21] <doko> apachelogger: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html   rebuild still running, see the email to u-d-a
[19:30] <highvoltage> inetpro: because he's a Jonathan. he's unstoppable.
[19:30] <inetpro> ha :-)
[19:57]  * stgraber waves
[19:57] <stgraber> highvoltage: ping
[19:57] <highvoltage> stgraber: pong
[19:58] <highvoltage> stgraber: are you and M going to make it back in time?
[19:58] <alkisg> o/
[19:58] <stgraber> mgariepy and I will have to skip this meeting, sorry
[19:58] <highvoltage> stgraber: ok
[19:58] <stgraber> just left the US
[19:58] <highvoltage> ouch, ok
[19:58] <highvoltage> who else is here for the Edubuntu meeting?
[19:59] <highvoltage> here's the Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
[20:00] <highvoltage> and the roadmap wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[20:00] <highvoltage> Beta 1 release is happening tomorrow, we're mostly looking good for that, I've been testing upgrades today
[20:01] <highvoltage> as well as i386/amd64 DVD installs
[20:01] <highvoltage> still have to test LTSP but at least it installed fine
[20:01] <highvoltage> I missed some icons in the installer slideshow, but it's not critical, I hope to get a freeze exception for those
[20:02] <highvoltage> we still also have italc crashing on amd64, which is weird since we thought we removed it from the live session
[20:03] <highvoltage> Rubén Romero y Cordero has been working on improving the relationship between Debian-Edu/Skolelinux and Edubuntu
[20:04] <highvoltage> he arranged for the Debian guys to join us for this meeting so that we can discuss collaboration, unfortunately I don't know their nicks, are you guys here?
[20:04]  * huayra would be Rubén
[20:04] <arnt> I am the board leader in FRISK the member organization for DebianEdu
[20:05] <highvoltage> ah right! hi huayra and arnt :)
[20:06] <arnt> FRISK  is short for "Free software in the schools" , an organization that promots the use of the FLOSS software in the Norwegian schools
[20:06] <huayra> hi highvoltage and the rest of the edubuntu team
[20:06] <arnt> hi highvoltage
[20:06] <highvoltage> would you mind giving some introductions? unfortunately everyone isn't here, but it would be nice for the logs (I'll post it to the lists) and I'll take the liberty of introducing marc/staphane who can't be here right now
[20:06] <arnt> hi the rest :)
[20:07] <alkisg> Hi arnt and huayra :)
[20:08] <highvoltage> I'm Jonathan Carter, I work for Révolution Linux that implements a full range of Linux solutions, we have many schools and educational institutions as clients and it's an important part of what we do
[20:08]  * alkisg is a Greek teacher, promoting (ed)ubuntu/ltsp in greek schools (about 200 so far)
[20:08] <highvoltage> mgariepy and stgraber also works with me, they're on their way back from the US (we're based in Canada) so they couldn't make it for this meeting
[20:08] <arnt> My name is Arnt Ove Gregersen, I work as a system developer at day time creating map related software , in my spare time I am the board leader for FRISK the DebianEdu member organization that works to promote FLOSS software in Norway
[20:09] <highvoltage> the active members on https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members/+members is pretty much who's been recently active in Edubuntu. as you see it's a small team
[20:10] <highvoltage> mhall119, who's usually around also works on Qimo4kids, a distribution for young kids: http://www.qimo4kids.com/
[20:11]  * huayra is an Ubuntu Member and FRISK board member. Contact member for the Norwegian LoCo team. work with sales of Free Software. driver of SpreadUbuntu. Have a love for Skolelinux and Edubuntu, so it makes sense for me to do what I do (whatever it is I am doing)
[20:11] <highvoltage> we've worked together to get some qimo packages into ubuntu. for the next release we should have a full qimo system available in the archives. it would actually be quite nice to have it available for debian as well
[20:12] <arnt> sounds like a good idea
[20:12] <highvoltage> in terms of what edubuntu does, it's not that far off from skolelinux/debian-edu. here are some screenshots of what we install: http://edubuntu.org/screenshots
[20:12] <huayra> the usual route is Debian>Ubuntu IMHU
[20:13] <huayra> Is there a way to get it the other way around in a smooth way that you know of, highvoltage (or anyone else?)
[20:13] <highvoltage> huayra: indeed. we have some things in Ubuntu that's not packaged in Debian yet, like Nanny, for example
[20:13] <mhall119> highvoltage: I missed the deadline to get anythign new into Natty's archives, I'll re-group and shoot for Oniric
[20:13] <mhall119> Oneiric
[20:13] <highvoltage> huayra: personally I'd want to become a Debian maintainer, so I'd love to do more Debian work, but I'll just need a sponsor
[20:13] <mhall119> one of these days I'll remember how to spell it
[20:13] <alkisg> Ονειρικό :)
[20:14] <mhall119> if I can get some help, I'd love to get qimo packaged for debian
[20:14] <huayra> highvoltage, I know several debian developers in the company I work at. I am not sure how that process work, but we could have a private chat on that afterwards and see what we can do
[20:14] <highvoltage> huayra: vagrantc is going to help me with some ltsp packages, but if I could have some people willing to sponsor from the debian-edu side, that would be great
[20:14] <mhall119> oh dang, this is a meething, and not #edubuntu, /me attention fail
[20:15] <huayra> there is a lot of good will in the debian-edu site AFAIK
[20:15] <highvoltage> huayra: great. there are other packages too like librecad, and also a bunch of other stuff we'd like to get in that would be more appropriate with the debian -> ubuntu route
[20:15] <huayra> People are positive to work with Edubuntu as long as we work towards concrete results
[20:15] <huayra> arnt, am I right?
[20:16] <highvoltage> I think it's like that from both sides :)
[20:16] <huayra> That is my impression from the Debian-edu dev meeting I assisted to, at least
[20:16] <huayra> highvoltage, indeed :)
[20:16] <highvoltage> heck, I'd even be happy if we can start communicating more :)
[20:16] <highvoltage> but getting packages into debian would be a good start, imho
[20:17] <highvoltage> at least, our steadily growing list of things that's just in the ubuntu archives and not in debian
[20:17] <arnt> huayra: it is my impression as well
[20:17] <arnt> communication is a good thing :)
[20:17] <highvoltage> arnt: that was the IRL meeting right?
[20:18] <arnt> IRL meeting ?
[20:18] <highvoltage> IRL = In Real Life (as apposed to an IRC meeting)
[20:18] <arnt> ah :) yes
[20:18] <huayra> yes, highvoltage. In Oslo
[20:19] <huayra> I have to admit that I didn't catch the IRL either...
[20:19] <huayra> :)
[20:19] <highvoltage> huayra mentioned before in an email that we could perhaps look at scripts and packages that would make it easier to integrate an edubuntu desktop machine into a skolelinux network
[20:19] <highvoltage> do you have any strong feelings about that, arnt?
[20:20] <arnt> yes, I guess that would be a good way to start the cooperation
[20:20] <highvoltage> I was wondering whether some people might feel that we'd try to steal desktops from debian-edu or something if we do that
[20:20] <highvoltage> but I also think that it would be nice if we could do that, considering that we don't have the central authentication abilities in edubuntu out of the box that you have in debian-edu
[20:20] <arnt> many of our users use both debianedu and  ubuntu / edubuntu in mixed enviroment so I guess that would make many people happy
[20:21] <huayra> That was a proposal from a debian-edu dev. And he also mentioned something like: "some people use thin clients, some use fat clients and we have to please them all"
[20:21] <highvoltage> so, so far we can already:
[20:21] <highvoltage> 1. work on getting ubuntu-only packages into debian
[20:21] <highvoltage> 2. work on better "interoperability" (for lack of better word right now) between edubuntu and skolelinux
[20:22] <highvoltage> (I think that's already a good start)
[20:22] <arnt> me too
[20:22] <alkisg> Indeed
[20:23] <huayra> sounds good, but we should divide 2 in 2 points:
[20:23] <highvoltage> ah, I guess it's also worth while mentioning a slight bit about how we make decisions
[20:23] <highvoltage> we have the Edubuntu Council, members are listed here: https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-council
[20:23] <huayra> 2.1 Ship Edubuntu with packages that integrate into a Debian-Edu server environment
[20:24] <highvoltage> project-level decisions are usually voted on by the council, although I doubt we'll need to do anything like that today
[20:24] <huayra> 2.2 Have a viable and open channel of communication between both communities where interoperability issues can be handled
[20:24] <highvoltage> I usually hang out on #debian-edu, so if anyone needs to poke someone about an ubuntu/edubuntu issue, feel free to poke me
[20:25]  * huayra would like to emphasize: these are proposal, not orders or desicions :)
[20:25] <highvoltage> (or any of us that are there, for that matter)
[20:25] <highvoltage> huayra: *nod*
[20:25] <highvoltage> we're about to finish off the current ubuntu development cycle, the next release is in April
[20:26] <highvoltage> after that comes the Ubuntu Developer Summit, a few of us will be there to flesh out the ideas and proposals made for the next release cycle
[20:26] <highvoltage> when planning the next release we can take debian-edu into account considering what we discussed today, and put the todo list items in our roadmap
[20:26] <huayra> is UDS in Europe or in the US this time?
[20:27] <highvoltage> Europe
[20:27] <huayra> where?
[20:27] <highvoltage> Budapest: http://uds.ubuntu.com/
[20:27] <huayra> I am considering to assist, but haven't check this time around yet (real life catching up...)
[20:27] <huayra> about time to get back to Budapest :)
[20:27] <huayra> ok, sorry, please continue
[20:28] <highvoltage> no problem, I hate being the only one talking :)
[20:28] <highvoltage> at least we can do a lot of things that aren't tied to the Ubuntu release cycle
[20:29] <highvoltage> like packaging work in debian, for example
[20:29] <arnt> great
[20:30] <huayra> highvoltage, I can't come :( But will try to assist remotely if we can agree on setting up a meeting there that you can lead
[20:30] <highvoltage> I don't know if there's anything else we can do for Debian at this stage, but we're certainly open to ideas
[20:30] <huayra> We could invite Debian-Edu devs to join if it makes sense
[20:30] <highvoltage> huayra: ok, I'll be sure to send you the details when scheduling is available
[20:30] <huayra> arnt, thoughts around that?
[20:31] <huayra> alkisg, mhall119 do you have ideas or wishes?
[20:31]  * mhall119 hasn't been following along, sorry
[20:31] <highvoltage> huayra: yep, I guess not all our sessions will be interesting for everyone, but we could probably have a session where some of these things could specifically be covered
[20:31] <arnt> huayra, sounds like a good idea
[20:31] <huayra> thanks highvoltage. I'll make sure to pass the information to FRISK and hopefully get some debian-edu devs joining, at least remotely
[20:32] <alkisg> huayra: here in greece we're interested in the authentication part of skolelinux, it'd be great if that could cooperate with edubuntu desktops. So all of you covered what I wanted to say :)
[20:32] <mhall119> I will be in Budapest though
[20:32] <mhall119> if there's a session I can make
[20:32] <huayra> sounds like we have 2 points we can work on and get down and dirty with themunder UDS
[20:33] <highvoltage> (bbiab)
[20:33] <huayra> and it seems we have enough time to get it all planned relatively well
[20:34] <highvoltage> ok, back. stgraber and mgariepy also just arrived
[20:35] <mgariepy> hi
[20:35] <jever> moin
[20:35] <highvoltage> what we've discussed in terms of collaboration so far, at least as proposals are:
[20:35] <highvoltage> 15:24 < highvoltage> 1. work on getting ubuntu-only packages into debian
[20:35] <highvoltage> 15:25 < highvoltage> 2. work on better "interoperability" (for lack of better word right now) between edubuntu and skolelinux
[20:35] <highvoltage> 15:26 < huayra> 2.1 Ship Edubuntu with packages that integrate into a Debian-Edu server environment
[20:35] <highvoltage> 15:27 < huayra> 2.2 Have a viable and open channel of communication between both communities where interoperability issues can be  handled
[20:36] <huayra> hi mgariepy and stgraber
[20:36] <highvoltage> and that we'll probably have at least one UDS session where debian-edu folk can participate remotely
[20:37] <highvoltage> (well, they can participate in all of them, of course, but one session at least that's focussed on collaboration, etc)
[20:37] <highvoltage> how should we take this further? a wiki page?
[20:37] <huayra> (and they can come to Budapest if they want or even ask for sponsorship from canonical)
[20:38] <highvoltage> yep, the sponsorship deadline was yesterday, but if someone is serious about it they could probably still get in a late application
[20:39] <huayra> A wiki page sounds good. Arnt should we replicate it in our site or just use the Ubuntu Wiki?
[20:39] <arnt> a real life  meeting between the developers sounds like to something we should try achieve
[20:39] <huayra> I do not want to tip on anyone toes here, so I ask this in the open :)
[20:39] <arnt> huary , at least we should link to it from our site
[20:39] <highvoltage> personally I don't care where it is, but it should really be something we all can edit
[20:40] <huayra> highvoltage, indeed.
[20:40] <highvoltage> so either the ubuntu wiki or debian wiki would be ideal imho
[20:41] <huayra> Arnt can we ask if any devs want to join this and ask them to apply for sponsorship. It's been a long time ago collaboration in this front happened and I am sure we can move some bricks and see if some sponsorship can be done
[20:41] <highvoltage> fwiw I'm also going to try to attend debconf later this year
[20:41] <arnt> is there any information on how and where to apply ?
[20:42] <highvoltage> arnt: it's all on the UDS microsite: http://uds.ubuntu.com
[20:42] <huayra> http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/sponsorship/
[20:42] <arnt> ok, thanks
[20:42] <highvoltage> arnt: we might have to ask the ubuntu community manager for some intervention, since the deadline for sponsorship applications has past, but I think it's worth a try
[20:43] <huayra> highvoltage and arnt: i can ask Jono if we get someone on board
[20:43] <highvoltage> huayra: great, thanks for taking that
[20:43] <stgraber> hello again
[20:43] <stgraber> just got back at the office
[20:44] <huayra> but I will already ask him now so it's worth the effort of someone applying
[20:44] <highvoltage> ok
[20:44] <highvoltage> stgraber: do you have a minute to glance over the scrollback and provide some feedback?
[20:45] <arnt> huayra, great
[20:45] <huayra> arnt, can you take the asking the Debian-Edu dev community about this?
[20:45] <huayra> please :)
[20:45] <arnt> huayra, I will do so
[20:46] <arnt> huayra, we can coordinate it afterwards
[20:46] <highvoltage> is there anything else that we should discuss today?
[20:46] <huayra> great
[20:46] <highvoltage> (I'll send the logs of this discussion to both devel lists so that everyone can be up to date)
[20:47] <arnt> highvoltage, I do not think so, we should start by taking small steps in my opinion
[20:47] <arnt> highvoltage, and the above steps seems like some good steps to start with
[20:48] <highvoltage> indeed.
[20:49] <highvoltage> shall we adjourne?
[20:49] <highvoltage> we're pretty much always available in #edubuntu as well, fwiw
[20:49] <huayra> I think this is a good start, indeed
[20:50] <arnt> I agree
[20:50] <highvoltage> alkisg, huayra, arnt, mgariepy, mhall119, stgraber, jever: thanks for attenting!
[20:50]  * highvoltage hits the end of meeting gong
[20:50] <alkisg> Thanks :)
[20:50] <highvoltage> *GONG*
[20:52] <mgariepy> Thanks