[00:00] <nucc1> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0102ft4/Click_26_03_2011/
[00:00] <nucc1> Click talking about hard drives :)
[00:22] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Ubuntu-UK Virtual Jam - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/03/29/ubuntu-uk-virtual-jam/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-uk-virtual-jam
[00:35]  * penguin42 doubts you can spread virtual jam on toast; or perhaps you need virtual toast
[00:50] <penguin42> has anyone got a Maverick box in front of them they can try something quick with?
[01:04] <penguin42> hohum
[05:29] <Azelphur> I feel like I'm in an adventure game lol
[05:29] <Azelphur> The lock on my door broke, so I'm locked in
[05:29] <Azelphur> "Using the tools you have, break out of the room xD"
[05:30] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/household-safety/security/lock-picking.htm
[05:30] <Azelphur> I don't think picking it will work, something snapped inside the lock
[05:30] <Azelphur> and now I can turn the key 360
[05:31] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I asked in #hardware, seems like the best approach is to take the door off the hinges haha
[05:40] <ging> Azelphur: do you have beer and food?
[05:40] <Azelphur> I have food, no beer :(
[05:41] <ging> what sort of food
[05:41] <Azelphur> uhh, jaffa cakes, kitcates, chocolate fingers, some crisps, toffee crisps, mars bar
[05:41] <Azelphur> xD
[05:41] <Azelphur> kitkats*
[05:49] <MartijnVdS> next best approach is "kick the door"
[05:49] <MartijnVdS> or "use a window"
[05:49] <Azelphur> use the window has been suggested, however I'm not suicidal right now :p
[05:50] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you're not on ground level?
[05:50] <Azelphur> nope, third story.
[05:50] <MartijnVdS> ♫ Spider-Azelphur, Spider-Azelphur.. ;)
[05:50] <Azelphur> haha
[05:50] <Azelphur> I think I have it now, with the power of internets
[05:50] <MartijnVdS> can't you VOIP-call a locksmith? :)
[05:51] <Azelphur> I have a real phone :P
[05:51] <MartijnVdS> no problem then
[05:51] <Azelphur> in fact I have 2 real phones and a VOIP phone, and a toolkit
[05:51] <Azelphur> indeed :D
[05:51] <Azelphur> but it's much quicker to just ask the internet, it's already solved in theory
[05:51] <Azelphur> I can just remove the pins from the hinges and take the door out
[05:52] <Azelphur> I'll do it at like 9am when everyone is awake
[06:02] <MartijnVdS> What if you have to pee?
[06:02] <Azelphur> then I'll have to hold it :D
[06:02] <Azelphur> lol
[06:02] <MartijnVdS> that might be easy at first..
[06:03] <Azelphur> just had another cool idea to make it even earlier than 9am
[06:03] <Azelphur> I can just xmessage the TV
[06:03] <Azelphur> having a linux powered tv: priceless
[06:34] <HazRPG> erm...
[06:34] <HazRPG> ..... xD
[06:34] <Azelphur> lol
[06:35]  * HazRPG 's notes to self: Always keep toolbox handy
[06:35]  * HazRPG and a linux box in each room
[06:35] <Azelphur> haha
[06:36] <Azelphur> gonna ping my mums laptop too actually
[06:36]  * HazRPG all else fails, pretend to be in an action movie and KICK THE MOFO DOOR DOWN :D
[06:36] <Azelphur> should let me know one way or another when she's awake xD
[06:36] <HazRPG> xD
[06:36] <HazRPG> guessing your in your room
[06:36] <HazRPG> ...hang on mum? Still with the parents? (that must suck :()
[06:37] <Azelphur> hehe yea, I'm in my room
[06:37] <HazRPG> I say, kick the door down ;)
[06:37] <Azelphur> haha, I'm not there yet
[06:38] <HazRPG> are the hinges actually on your side of the door?
[06:38] <HazRPG> (notices how the hinges on the door in the room he's currently in are on the other side of the door)
[06:38] <HazRPG> hang on, you lock your door?
[06:39] <Azelphur> yea, my hinges are on the inside
[06:39] <Azelphur> and yea I do
[06:39] <HazRPG> ... my mother never even closes the door when she goes to the bathroom!
[06:39] <Azelphur> haha
[06:39] <HazRPG> nevermind locking any doors
[06:39] <Azelphur> my dad isn't exactly trustworthy
[06:39] <Azelphur> and we have lodgers too
[06:39] <HazRPG> ah
[06:39] <Azelphur> although I trust the lodgers more than I trust my dad XD
[06:39] <HazRPG> see that I can understand
[06:40] <HazRPG> I use to lock my room whenever I wasn't in it
[06:40] <HazRPG> just because my dad would suddenly decide "room looks a tip, lets chuck it all out"
[06:40] <HazRPG> heh, wow really?
[06:40] <Azelphur> yea
[06:41] <Azelphur> I do both, when I'm in the room nobody has any respect and just walks straight in without knocking usually making me jump out of my skin because I have headphones on :p
[06:41] <Azelphur> or my mum had a nice habbit of walking in while I was in bed and leaving the door wide open, usually when we had guests
[06:41] <HazRPG> >_<
[06:41] <Azelphur> and when I'm not in the room my dad/brother like to come in and help themselves, and when it's my dad it's never to be seen again
[06:42] <HazRPG> xD
[06:42] <HazRPG> I can relate to that
[06:42] <Azelphur> doubt it, my dads had a pc, 3 laptops, countless toys and random artifacts off me over the years
[06:43] <Azelphur> :p
[06:47] <HazRPG> I can still relate ;)
[06:47] <Azelphur> fun
[06:47] <HazRPG> not really :P
[06:48] <HazRPG> missing stuff = bad :P
[06:48] <Azelphur> indeed
[06:48] <Azelphur> not so much missing when you know where it is though :)
[06:48] <HazRPG> yeah, but you "miss" having it... sorta the same thing
[06:48] <Azelphur> spose xD
[06:52] <czajkowski> Aloha
[06:52] <HazRPG> czajkowski: howdy :)
[06:52] <HazRPG> czajkowski: and good morning
[06:52] <HazRPG> \o
[06:53] <HazRPG> oh wow, just realised it was 30th of march!
[06:54] <HazRPG> argh! I'm chairing tomorrow >_<
[06:54]  * HazRPG enters minor panic mode
[06:55] <shauno> morning
[07:08] <shauno> how do they ship something from the UK and give me an estimated delivery for the 6th.  They could swim here faster than that!
[07:09] <Azelphur> I think I grumbled about a company about that once
[07:09] <Azelphur> I Worked out that at average walking speed I could walk there and pick it up faster than they could deliver it
[07:13] <shauno> google maps says it'd take me 8 hours to drive or 3 days, 4 hrs to walk
[07:13] <Azelphur> xD
[07:14] <shauno> still .. ugh.
[07:15] <shauno> I want new toys :o(
[07:32] <HazRPG> shauno: mornin dude
[07:33] <HazRPG> :(
[07:33] <HazRPG> companies suck lol
[07:33] <HazRPG> you'd think they'd want to get it out fast, that way they have more space for other stuff
[07:33] <HazRPG> either that or they're tight, and want to wait until they can pump out everything in one shipment
[07:34] <shauno> nah it's out, I just don't get why ups want a week to get it here
[07:53] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:58] <HazRPG> shauno: could be customs?
[07:59] <HazRPG> AlanBell: morning :)
[08:02] <kaushal> hi
[08:03] <HazRPG> hmm, interesting question for ya... does radvd always dish the same IP to the same machines?
[08:04] <shauno> if it's doing stateless discovery, sort of.  they're done by mac address, so the same network interface will always get the same address
[08:04] <kaushal> when i run dmidecode i get Type: Unknown Speed: Unknown in http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/587238/
[08:05] <kaushal> Any clue ?
[08:06] <HazRPG> shauno: ah sweet
[08:34] <Azelphur> HazRPG: I'm on my way to freedom... http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110330_083108.jpg
[08:35] <shauno> I'm not gonna ask =x
[08:35] <Azelphur> shauno: my door lock broke, I've been trapped in my room for the past 4 hours
[08:35] <Azelphur> xD
[08:35] <shauno> lmfao
[08:35] <shauno> sorry
[08:36] <shauno> broke in what way?
[08:36] <HazRPG> hehe, wow... you totally hacked that door?
[08:36] <shauno> *gibson
[08:36] <Azelphur> I turned the key, something snapped, and now I can just turn the key 360 and nothing happens
[08:36] <HazRPG> shauno: key could twist 360 in the key hole :P
[08:36] <Azelphur> people are saying I broke the pins
[08:37] <HazRPG> Azelphur: have you actually just been sat bashing on the door to get to the lock?
[08:37] <HazRPG> told ya would have been easier to just kick it in :P
[08:37] <shauno> that doesn't sound right.  the key can rotate past the pins normally
[08:37] <Azelphur> I've been crowbaring the wood with a hammer
[08:38] <HazRPG> shauno: I agree
[08:38] <hoover> mornin
[08:38] <Azelphur> well I don't know fuck all about locks
[08:38] <Azelphur> all I know is I put the key in, something snapped, and now the key rotates 360 and doesn't unlock the door
[08:38] <HazRPG> Azelphur: if anything sounds like your missing a pin on the inside
[08:39] <HazRPG> lock picking it would have been easier personally
[08:39] <Azelphur> I assumed I couldn't pick it baring in mind the key wouldn't unlock it
[08:39] <HazRPG> my friend tried to teach me how to lock-pick one time on this padlock he'd been practising for months with
[08:39] <HazRPG> ...took me 5 mins and I was in, dead easy
[08:39] <HazRPG> never done it before, but was really really easy
[08:40] <Azelphur> :)
[08:40] <HazRPG> esp. since I already knew the general concept behind a lock
[08:40] <shauno> lockpicking is disturbingly easy, in most cases
[08:40] <Azelphur> but yea I doubt you can pick a lock if the key won't unlock it
[08:40] <shauno> exactly
[08:40] <HazRPG> I'm sure you can
[08:41] <HazRPG> you just need to be pressing the right bits
[08:41] <Azelphur> HazRPG: It doesn't make logical sense to me, if you can't use a key to unlock a door, then you can't use a lockpicking kit to emulate a key to unlock a door
[08:41] <shauno> pressing the right bits lets you rotate the key far enough to actuate the next part of the mechanism
[08:41] <shauno> if the key can spin freely, that actuator is gone / stuck
[08:42] <AlanBell> maybe broke or jammed some of the springs that push the pins in
[08:42] <AlanBell> so yeah, unpickable
[08:42] <AlanBell> and in any case you have gone past the point of no return with that door
[08:43] <shauno> heh, yeah, it's a bit late for subtle solutions there :p
[08:44] <HazRPG> yeah kinda :P
[08:44] <Azelphur> FUCK YEA FREEDOM
[08:44] <Azelphur> \o/
[08:44] <HazRPG> Azelphur: erm... also, lock picking set not needed (makes it easier but not necessary). Two paper clips is all you need
[08:45] <AlanBell> um Azelphur don't make me tell you off for language
[08:45] <HazRPG> Azelphur: pics or it didn't happen :P
[08:45] <AlanBell> but well done for getting out :)
[08:45] <HazRPG> Azelphur: also, gratz :D
[08:47] <HazRPG> I remember getting locked into the bathroom for hours... wasn't fun :/
[08:48] <Azelphur> HazRPG: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110330_084254.jpg xD
[08:48] <HazRPG> also the reason I ripped out the internal lock part out completely
[08:48] <Azelphur> also my door now has a bathroom-style slider lock.
[08:48] <Azelphur> lol
[08:48] <HazRPG> and instilled the "if its shut and/or lights are on... someone's in there" etc
[08:49] <HazRPG> Azelphur: \o/
[08:49] <shauno> my missus has a habit of not shutting the door.  or turning the light on.  it can be a bit startling in the small hours
[08:50] <HazRPG> lol
[08:50] <HazRPG> I've never seen anyone other than my mum do that
[08:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> ZOMG! This is one scary video of the tsunami in Japan.. http://theweek.com/article/index/213658/japan-the-most-horrifying-tsunami-video-yet
[08:50] <HazRPG> actually wait, my gran does that too :/
[08:50] <shauno> thankfully I do use the light, so the full nightmare scenario has never transpired
[08:51] <HazRPG> nothing worse then being a kid... and running to the toilet for a nasty surprise!
[08:52] <popey> my 7 year old is the only person who shuts the loo door in our house
[08:52] <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm pretty sure that's an old video..
[08:55] <popey> define $OLD
[08:55] <popey> I saw it about a week ago
[08:55] <popey> but hey ho, tragedy etc
[08:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> What amazed me was how high the water level rose. The bloke with the camera must have been making a mess in his underpants
[08:56] <shauno> almost related, this kinda thing bugs me in news articles: "Photo: YouTube   See all 27 photos"
[08:57] <shauno> I don't think citing 'youtube' is proper attribution, and giving us a slideshow of screengrabs instead of linking to the youtube video, so you can't find out who the proper attribution actually is ..
[08:58] <HazRPG> shauno: click the photo link of those... and citation of the poster is included
[08:58] <HazRPG> however I agree
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: how's v6 treating you? :)
[08:58] <HazRPG> I think mainly because some people may be reading this, and may have youtube blocked
[09:00] <shauno> ah, the rest aren't screengrabs, just the one they attributed to 'youtube'
[09:00] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: like a dream <3
[09:00] <MooDoo> hello all
[09:00] <HazRPG> MooDoo: howdy squire :)
[09:00] <MooDoo> :)
[09:01] <danfish> morning
[09:01] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: currently just back tracing it so that I can post about it :)
[09:01] <danfish> browsing through the natty iso's I see that a powerpc version is back on the cards. A bit of a surprise.
[09:02] <shauno> re earthquake tho, I did find this interesting; https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/InsideSystemStorage/entry/ibm_japan_mailbag_of_interesting_reactions7
[09:02] <shauno> lesson: leave some slack in the cables :)
[09:02] <HazRPG> shauno: ironically I always so xD
[09:03] <HazRPG> do*
[09:03] <HazRPG> danfish: hmm, interesting?
[09:03] <HazRPG> danfish: wonder why that is...
[09:03] <shauno> I didn't think the ppc version actually went away?  just became a community port rather than a supported release
[09:04] <HazRPG> are there still many powerpc's on the go? I mean I know ps3's use it, and older Apple products...
[09:05] <HazRPG> maybe they've just recently hired someone to maintain it again :P
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: The most common radiation-hardened CPU (for space use) is a RAD750 (basically a PowerPC 750)
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD750
[09:06] <MartijnVdS> only $200k, or 2p
[09:07] <shauno> ppc still seem to figure a lot in supercomputers .. they're just disappearing from desktops at fast rate
[09:13] <danfish> it was just odd how 'official' support vanished and now has come back. Time to dust off the old G4 ibook :)
[09:13] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: http://ipv6.he.net/certification/scoresheet.php?pass_name=hazrpg \o/
[09:14] <shauno> you sure it's official?  that'd seem like a very odd move
[09:14] <HazRPG> erm, I don't think its actually official
[09:15] <danfish> by official, I mean listed on the page at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[09:15] <HazRPG> I just have a feeling the alpha/beta servers that compile the code and convert to iso still have ppc as one of the options
[09:15] <HazRPG> I'm pretty sure the others had alpha/betas of ppc
[09:15] <danfish> HazRPG: not happened in previous releases IIRC
[09:15] <HazRPG> *shrug(
[09:16] <HazRPG> *shrug*
[09:17] <AlanBell> http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/content/government-ict-strategy interesting stuff in there
[09:18] <danfish> AlanBell: good to see some mention of SME's
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: woohoo! :)
[09:18] <AlanBell> very much so
[09:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> I like the section on Governance. They do seem to want to actually see it implemented this time too.
[09:19] <AlanBell> and that open source advisory panel sounds interesting
[09:20]  * AlanBell jumps up and down shouting "pick me, pick me" like donkey in shrek
[09:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed - I can think of several people who would be very good on that.
[09:20] <popey> AlanBell: added a new page about teh wiki to the global jam pad
[09:21] <popey> to make the audit easier
[09:21] <AlanBell> nice
[09:22]  * danfish nominates the alans for the OS advisory board ;)
[09:22] <gord> if anyone wants to triage unity bugs at a global jam, i will make you so much cake. we get compiz bugs filed against us and indicator bugs and appmenu bugs and gah - more bugs come in than we can triage most days
[09:22] <danfish> AlanBell: d'ya think that'll work?
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> 39. The Government believes that citizens should be able to read  government documents with the standardised document format reader of  their choice. The first wave of compulsory open standards will  determine, through open consultation, the relevant open standard for all  government documents.
[09:22] <gord> mostly dupes and things filed against the wrong project thankfully
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> On DFD too :-)
[09:22] <AlanBell> gord: pick a time slot
[09:23] <AlanBell> gord: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/globaljam2011
[09:23] <popey> be nice to have some simple docs or links to existing docs about what to do with unity/compiz bugs
[09:24] <JGJones> TheOpenSourcerer, That should apply to video codecs then (they make sign language videos) as well as audio transcripts for the blind.
[09:25] <AlanBell> "mandatory open standards" wow, they said they wouldn't use the M word
[09:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> it is available in ODF: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sites/default/files/resources/uk-government-ict-strategy-2011_0.odt
[09:26] <AlanBell> document properties title: "Cabinet Office word template - 2009"
[09:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:27] <popey> hehe
[09:27] <popey> you l33t hax0r
[09:28] <AlanBell> oh come on, does anyone not go to file-properties first before reading a document?
[09:28] <oimon> AlanBell: yep, i always do!
[09:29] <diplo> Can't say I ever do
[09:29] <diplo> :)
[09:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's critical when exporting to PDF from OOo. Else the properties title is what you get in the header.
[09:30] <AlanBell> there are so often juicy leftovers in there
[09:30] <JGJones> bah
[09:30] <JGJones> it would seem that I can't use libavcodec in ubuntu main to compile for h263/h263+ support
[09:30] <JGJones> I just get an error
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> probably because of patents
[09:31] <AlanBell> JGJones: codecs have been mentioned as things that should be included in the scope of government using open standards
[09:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> They formed a section in the questionnaire I completed recently.
[09:32] <JGJones> MartijnVdS, yeah I figured...excuse me if I'm getting this wrong, but aren't libavcodec-DEV in source code? Patents don't cover source code I believe (as it's freedom of speech)
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: -dev are just development headers, used to link your program to libavcodec
[09:32] <AlanBell> JGJones: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/content/uk-government-open-standards-survey
[09:33] <AlanBell> patents do cover source code, where they are valid
[09:33] <AlanBell> patents restrict ideas
[09:34] <AlanBell> copyright restricts the expression of ideas
[09:34] <bigcalm> Morning kids
[09:34] <AlanBell> and copyleft is full of win
[09:34] <JGJones> MartijnVdS, so...that would mean I need a libavcodec-dev that does include the codecs - would I be able to install these debian packages on Ubuntu 10.10 - http://www.debian-multimedia.org/dists/testing/main/binary-i386/
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: I'd go with the Medibuntu versions myself
[09:35] <AlanBell> !info libavcodec-dev
[09:35] <AlanBell> !info libavcodec
[09:36] <JGJones> MartijnVdS, There's no libavcodec-dev in Medibuntu
[09:36] <AlanBell> JGJones: what are you trying to do?
[09:36] <JGJones> I'm compiling libopal files for Ekiga so that I can enable h263/h263+/h264
[09:38] <HazRPG> ooo I got replies from the CumbriaLUG!
[09:38] <HazRPG> ... a fair number of replies too!
[09:38] <HazRPG> Although, I can see why its pretty much dead... seems most of them have moved away for better jobs
[09:39] <JGJones> As I would like a video softphone based on either SIP/H323 so that I can make calls to a video relay service in development - but I need something better than a h261 video codec (h263/h264 are supported only)
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: there is..
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> or there used to be anyway
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> it might be in multiverse now
[09:40] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: did you hear that I'm free now
[09:40] <JGJones> MartijnVdS, http://packages.medibuntu.org/maverick/index.html - no -dev packages there and I do have universe and multiverse enabled.
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you escaped your prison?
[09:40] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: indeed, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/March%202011/IMG_20110330_084254.jpg
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: hardcore :)
[09:41] <Azelphur> lol
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: no idea then, sorry.
[09:42] <JGJones> MartijnVdS, No problem, thanks anyway :-)
[09:43] <JGJones> I'll try with the Debian Multimedia packages then.
[09:43] <JGJones> All this would have been much easier if Ekiga supported gstreamer
[09:49] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: so now that I need a new door, I was thinking I should do something cool with it xD
[09:49] <Azelphur> like bluetooth unlocking or something
[09:54] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.howtogeek.com/news/super-secret-door-top-stash-hides-your-flash-drive-and-cash-diy/3877/
[09:54] <MartijnVdS> http://makeprojects.com/Project/Doortop-Stash/638/1
[09:54] <Azelphur> that'd be cool for leaving in the house after you move so somebody will randomly find it
[09:55] <Azelphur> but I want something so that I don't have to carry a stupid chunk of metal
[09:55] <bigcalm> Some evil genious thought that it would be good to put #123 html codes into some file names. Now rsync can't stat the files
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: oh it's your front door, not the door to a room?
[09:56] <Azelphur> it's the door to a room
[09:57] <popey> replace (the now broken) lock with a smaller one?
[09:57] <popey> and put the key on the same keyring as your house key
[09:57] <MartijnVdS> popey: it's not just the lock that's broken
[09:57] <Azelphur> popey: did you see what I did to the door to get out lol
[09:57] <popey> yes
[09:58] <Azelphur> popey: the problem wasn't that I forgot the key, the lock brock
[09:58] <Azelphur> broke*
[09:58] <Azelphur> and I was trapped inside :p
[09:58] <popey> i didnt say it was
[09:58] <popey> i know
[09:58] <popey> 09:55:01 < Azelphur> but I want something so that I don't have to carry a stupid chunk of metal
[09:58] <popey> I was addressing that specific point
[09:58] <Azelphur> ah :p
[09:58] <Azelphur> that's still carying a chunk of metal though :(
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> you could make it a lock-free door
[09:59] <popey> most other people are capable of doing that quite happily and get on with their lives
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> as in.. just like normal "inside" doors
[09:59] <popey> obsessing about a key is possibly over obsessing
[09:59] <Azelphur> haha I'm not obsessing, I just think it'd be cool to do something else with it given the opportunity.
[09:59] <popey> london hackspace have a nice rfid tag based thing
[09:59] <popey> could do sommat like that?
[09:59] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: true but that would involve random pillaging of my stuff and room entering while I'm asleep :)
[10:00] <Azelphur> popey: sounds cool :D
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that happens? :)
[10:00] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: more than you might think back before I didn't lock it.
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> Ah, the blessings of living alone :P
[10:01] <popey> s/alone/with normal people/
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> popey: not in my case
[10:01] <popey> i was citing my case
[10:01] <popey> although..
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> "normal" people :P
[10:01] <czajkowski> MORNING my dears!
[10:01] <popey> last night sophie wandered into my bedroom and slept in my bed
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
[10:01] <popey> so i slept downstairs
[10:01] <popey> couldn't move her
[10:02] <Azelphur> indeed, living with normal people sounds good \o/
[10:02] <oimon> Azelphur: do you live with family or random housemates?
[10:02] <MartijnVdS> popey: too tired after writing Python code all night? :)
[10:02] <Azelphur> oimon: family lol
[10:02] <shauno> Azelphur: I wouldn't worry about nerding up the door for now.  just get it working.  most fun solutions go in the door frame, not the door itself
[10:02]  * oimon wonders what you have to hide :P
[10:02] <czajkowski> The folks on @uupc are running a Ubuntu UK Fortunes - tinyurl.com/uupcfortunes this will be done in two weeks time, fill it in :D
[10:03] <shauno> Azelphur: once you get to nerding it up, the google-fu you want is "electric door strike"  :D
[10:03] <Azelphur> oimon: here's a short list off the top of my head of some of the things my dad has stolen off me: 3 laptops, a PC, an Amiga, around 500 games for said amiga, a playstation, a sega saturn, a sega megadrive, at least 15 toolkits of various types, at least 3 USB cables, at least 5 ethernet cables
[10:03] <popey> \o/ family fortunes
[10:03] <Azelphur> I got bored, I could go on.
[10:04] <oimon> Azelphur: i think you need a safe.
[10:04] <Azelphur> oimon: or a door lock :D
[10:04] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Install a coil of wire in the door frame (like in Cryptonomicon) :))
[10:04] <Azelphur> but yea rfid locks using electronic door strikes look interesting :D
[10:05] <oimon> Azelphur: are you the one with broadband usage issues cos ur dad won't get another ISP?
[10:05] <Azelphur> I found one that has a key too in case of power outage
[10:05] <Azelphur> oimon: yup
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Open the door with your Oyster card ;)
[10:05] <Azelphur> haha, oyster cards :D
[10:05] <Azelphur> I'm not in London, we don't have them out here
[10:06] <shauno> Azelphur: how it tends to work is that the door stays "locked", but the strike (the metal plate the lock latches into in the frame" has a moving part that'll "give" at 12 volts.
[10:06] <Azelphur> I see, so if I have the rfid on me and I walk near the door, it'll unlock?
[10:07] <oimon> my door at work uses a keypass but unlocks in case of fire
[10:07] <shauno> so to open it, you either unlock the door to open it as normal, or feed 12v into the strike so that the lock doesn't matter.  the regular lock in the door is always the failsafe
[10:07] <diplo> Better solution Azelphur
[10:07] <diplo> move in to your own place ?
[10:08] <Azelphur> shauno: yea that's what I read made sense :)
[10:08] <Azelphur> diplo: sometime I probably will :)
[10:08] <shauno> they're pretty cheap too.  20 quid or so
[10:09] <shauno> the fun bit is under what conditions you present that 12v :o)
[10:09] <Azelphur> nice
[10:09] <diplo> Glad I moved out when I did, gave me a good start
[10:10] <diplo> Raining... :(
[10:10] <Azelphur> in other news I'm thinking of picking up a inspiron mini duo :D
[10:11] <twager> Wife wants me to install Ubuntu to her win7 laptop.Hope to use wubi but should I use netbook od desktop  edition ?also how do I install the win7 boot if all goes wrong ?
[10:12] <Azelphur> twager: I'd go for a proper install rather than wubi if you can. Netbook or desktop is a pretty null decision as they both merge next month
[10:12] <oimon> although netbook version of maverick sucked
[10:14] <twager> Azelphur: Do not want to do a proper install as it means a repartition of the drive and I am not used to wofking with Windows products
[10:15] <czajkowski> twager: do you need windows on it?
[10:15] <Azelphur> twager: the Ubuntu installer handles it all automatically, it's extremely easy
[10:15] <Azelphur> although I recommend you take a backup before doing it incase of power failure / crash / ninjas
[10:15] <twager> czajkowski: I do not but  wife does
[10:15] <Azelphur> I find that wubi installs can be a bit tempremental
[10:16] <twager> Azelphur: This is what bothers me..If I need to reload the boot to the mbr how do I do it ?
[10:17] <Azelphur> twager: if you want Windows to take the MBR back? I think there's a command like fixmbr or something in windows
[10:17] <Azelphur> twager: but the easy route is to just take a dd image of the drive, that's what I always do when I'm messing with it
[10:18] <Azelphur> then you can do whatever you want and take all the risks you like, if it goes bad you just restore the image
[10:18] <Azelphur> dd image and then there's no worries :)
[10:19] <twager> Azelphur: Thanks..Will give it a whirl later...
[10:20] <Azelphur> twager: know how to do a dd image? :)
[10:21] <twager> Azelphur: Used it many years ago whe Slackwre first came out and often dd an .img file to cd but never donw a complete drive and help appreciated
[10:22] <Azelphur> twager: I assume you know how to find out the device name of the drive (eg /dev/sda) right?
[10:22] <twager> Azelphur: Yes
[10:23] <Azelphur> dd if=/dev/sdx | gzip > image.gz
[10:23] <Azelphur> and to restore gzid -dc image.gz | dd of=/dev/sdx
[10:23] <Azelphur> gzip rather, not gzid
[10:24] <Azelphur> hey cool, apparently you can backup the MBR too
[10:24] <Azelphur> twager: http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/ddcommand.htm interesting information :)
[10:24] <twager> Azelphur: but the lappy boots into win7 ?
[10:25] <Azelphur> twager: yea so use a Ubuntu Live CD/USB and backup the drive
[10:25] <Azelphur> then do stuff :)
[10:25] <Azelphur> having a backup is a good thing anyway.
[10:25] <daubers> Morning
[10:26] <twager> Azelphur: Great..Ta very much...
[10:26] <Azelphur> twager: yw :)
[10:26] <kazade> gah, bloody clients!...
[10:26]  * kazade has had a particularly complaint today
[10:27] <willy_1977> morning.
[10:27] <Azelphur> twager: that's my usual procedure when I do dual boots, I do a dd because sometimes bad stuff happens (You get power failures, or crashes because of dodgy CD drives) and then I dual boot it up :)
[10:27]  * kazade has had a particularly *dumb* complaint today (sigh)
[10:27] <daubers> kazade: ?
[10:29] <kazade> daubers, it's a long story
[10:29] <kazade> :)
[10:29] <daubers> kazade: How goes the job hunt?
[10:29] <kazade> not great :/
[10:29] <kazade> haven't heard back from anything yet
[10:30] <daubers> No? Bit rubbish.
[10:30] <daubers> I've got a few people I want to drop an email back to just to give a negative response to.
[10:30] <kazade> I did join LinkedIn...
[10:30] <kazade> dunno if that's gonna help :p
[10:30] <daubers> Heh :)
[10:31] <kazade> in fairness, I'm being a bit fussy about who I apply to
[10:31] <kazade> if I don't hear anything by next week I'll start dealing with agencies :/
[10:31] <daubers> Agencies suck
[10:31] <czajkowski> kazade: I'd try online and just send it everywhere and then take it from there
[10:31] <czajkowski> it's the only way tbh
[10:32] <czajkowski> kazade: what kind of work are you looking for ?
[10:32] <kazade> czajkowski, Python/C++ in London
[10:32] <czajkowski> surely there are tons of those jobs out there, at least in Python
[10:32] <daubers> kazade: If it wasn't for the last part of that I'd offer you an interview straight off :)
[10:32] <kazade> daubers, :)
[10:33] <kazade> czajkowski, there are.. I'm just being fussy
[10:33] <czajkowski> be less fussy so :)
[10:33] <kazade> applied to Canonical, Google, last.fm and ... Microsoft
[10:33] <czajkowski> lol
[10:33] <czajkowski> Canonical ----------------> Microsoft
[10:33] <czajkowski> and you're fussy you say
[10:33] <kazade> lol
[10:33] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:33] <kazade> well, I'm going for BIG companies :)
[10:33] <kazade> I'm the sole employee where I work now, I want to work somewhere with lots of people :)
[10:34] <oimon> try a bank
[10:34] <kazade> oimon, that's a good idea
[10:34] <popey> pharma companies
[10:34] <popey> GSK, AZ
[10:34] <kazade> GSK isn't too far from here actually
[10:34] <oimon> mind you..nig =boring
[10:34] <oimon> big
[10:34] <daubers> \o/ we're trying to buy the unit next door to us as we've run out of physical space. My research workshop is full of stock at the moment :(
[10:34] <oimon> medium sized companies are more flexible
[10:34] <kazade> popey, although, ultimate evil
[10:35] <bigcalm> Orical?
[10:35] <popey> kazade: who?
[10:35] <kazade> phara
[10:35] <kazade> *pharma companies
[10:35] <popey> you have got to be kidding?
[10:35] <popey> you have _microsoft_ on your list and you paint drug companies as evil
[10:35] <kazade> lol
[10:35] <popey> :D
[10:35] <kazade> fair point ;)
[10:35] <popey> also, yes, Oracle
[10:35] <popey> SAP :)
[10:36] <popey> IBM
[10:36] <kazade> I've checked IBM
[10:36] <popey> L'Oreal
[10:36] <daubers> Are oracle london basd? Thought their office where in reading
[10:36] <popey> (Because you're worth it)
[10:36] <oimon> people actually choose to work for oracle?
[10:36] <kazade> heh
[10:36] <popey> I have a friend who works there
[10:36] <popey> through aquisition of Sun
[10:36] <popey> he really doesn't like it there
[10:36] <oimon> not surprised
[10:37] <daubers> popey: heard a couple of people say that
[10:37] <oimon> kazade: have you tried jobsite.co.uk?
[10:37] <daubers> cwjobs is a good one as well
[10:37] <popey> I'd use jobserve.com over jobsite
[10:37] <oimon> if i was looking i'd use them all
[10:38] <popey> heh
[10:38] <kazade> oimon, last time I signed up to a job site..
[10:38] <oimon> rather than trying indivual companies
[10:38] <kazade> my phone started ringing 2 minutes later
[10:38] <kazade> I couldn't turn it on for 3 days!
[10:38] <popey> well, some are somewhat unscrupulous so I wouldnt use all
[10:38] <oimon> kazade: you can go direct to a decent agency
[10:38] <kazade> hehe, there are decent agencies?
[10:39] <popey> yeah, a few
[10:39] <willy_1977> I've had some people contact me from those to offer me jobs at the company I'm working for... at least read the first page of my cv for goodness sake!
[10:39] <kazade> I've signed up to Client Server who seem to suck
[10:39] <daubers> HAH
[10:39] <oimon> http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/python-developer-financial-services-london-938495172?src=search
[10:39] <X3N> popey: does nagios know not to fail on the standard ssh port?
[10:40] <daubers> I've spoken to 13 agencies in the past 2 weeks, all of them are _far_ too expensive and none of them understand any of the questions I threw at them, so I don't believe they could filter a pond
[10:40] <oimon> kazade: when yo release the gwibber-killer then they will be beating down your door :P
[10:40] <kazade> hehe, in fairness oimon... a gwibber-killer doesn't need to be good ;)
[10:40] <daubers> kazade: when dealing with agencies, rememver they're probably being paid 12+% of your _annual_ salary as a fee, so don't take any nonsense
[10:40] <oimon> so long as it kills gwibber, it doesn't even need to work
[10:41] <kazade> daubers, k :)
[10:41] <oimon> daubers: in the past for hiring, i used prospects.co.uk and filtered myself. except a lot of rubbish came through, including a 9yr old girl from pakistan
[10:41] <MartijnVdS> (crontab -l ; echo "* * * * * killall gwibber") | crontab -
[10:41] <daubers> oimon: For what the agencies want to charge me, I'm considering hiring a temp for 3 months who could filter those, send responses and what not under my guidance
[10:42] <daubers> oimon: At least that way I can give someone a job who might need it!
[10:42] <BigRedS> I've never really felt the need to not just use the web interface for twitter
[10:42] <oimon> just don't promise to respond to all applicants - only shortlisted ones :P
[10:43] <oimon> BigRedS: i like to see permanent searches alongside the timeline e.g. #ubuntu in a separate stream
[10:43] <daubers> oimon: Well, yes. But they might as well make themselve useful :)
[10:43] <kazade> so, who are the best agencies?
[10:45] <daubers> kazade: forest seemed ok (wouldn't take any of them on as an employer mind you, don't believe what they charge is indicative of the work they do)
[10:45] <daubers> However, if you want to work for a big firm.... their probably the only way you'll get an in
[10:45] <oimon> daubers: as an employer, does a RHCE gain any advantage for candidates in your opinion?
[10:46] <kazade> k thanks daubers
[10:46] <daubers> oimon: In the roll I'm currently filling... probably. However, if someone had OSS projects on their CV that would be a bigger advantage (as I could go examine their code first)
[10:47] <BigRedS> oimon: Ah, I suspect I'd probably like that too had I thought of having it..
[10:48] <brobostigon> goodmorning everyone.
[10:48] <diplo> mornin
[10:48] <DJones> daubers: 12% for an agency sounds a bit low, the ones we deal with (admittely in a different industry) upp'd their fee's to 15% minimum over the last 12 months
[10:48] <brobostigon> morning DJones
[10:48] <DJones> Hi brobostigon
[10:49] <oimon> makes me laugh when employers want an expert genius and only offering 20k
[10:49] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[10:49] <daubers> DJones: 12% was the cheapest I've spoken too
[10:49]  * Laney wibbles
[10:50] <daubers> DJones: I've told them all to go away as I don't believe they'll do £5k plus worth of work
[10:50] <daubers> DJones: I'd seriously rather hire a temp for a couple of months to deal with it
[10:50] <kazade> oimon, I love the fact that employers want their developers to have in depth knowledge about an entire industry before they start (e.g. finance, risk management, etc.)
[10:50] <oimon> you can get a refund if you sack the guy within 3 months because they are useless. i had a ruthless employer who would do that regularly
[10:51] <kazade> oimon, that and agencies love adding languages to the job spec. (e.g C, C++, Java, Python, FORTRAN, ADA, C#, .NET, Perl, Ruby, Bash)
[10:51] <daubers> oimon: Problem is I'm then wasting my time in training them in the role. Which is ar more valuable to the company
[10:51] <oimon> true
[10:51] <oimon> i would rather get a good guy in the first place
[10:51] <daubers> I'd rather spend a couple of extra weeks getting the right candidate
[10:52] <daubers> When agencies say that to me they don't like me asking them why that offer that, and if it's because they generally don't get the right candidate for the role
[10:52] <oimon> i try to avoid alan sugar type managers
[10:52] <daubers> I've yet to have an agency successfully justify their fees to me
[10:52] <JGJones> As a job seeker - how does one deal with an agency?
[10:52] <popey> kazade: http://python.org/community/jobs/
[10:52] <daubers> Generally get the statement "But you have to understand the value proposition we bring to the table" at which point, I hang up
[10:53] <kazade> ta popey
[10:53] <JGJones> My biggest problem with agencies is that as soon as they find out I'm deaf (usually by asking for my number)...they're very very quiet afterward
[10:54] <daubers> JGJones: As a candidate, you ave to keep pressing them. They won't get paid if they don't fill a role, so they generally won't tell you to stop calling them.
[10:54] <JGJones> daubers, yeah, I would prefer to deal via email.
[10:54] <JGJones> they would prefer to deal via telephone.
[10:55] <JGJones> at least in my experience that's the case.
[10:55] <daubers> JGJones: Problem is that email is far too easy to ignore
[10:55] <daubers> JGJones: Go knock on their door :)
[10:55] <brobostigon> JGJones: i would agree, they like their telephones.
[10:55] <JGJones> I know :(
[10:55] <czajkowski> JGJones: it's unfortunate as daubers said emaik is easy to ingore and picking up the phone is fast
[10:55] <czajkowski> *email
[10:55] <JGJones> daubers, I'm not exactly that great at lipreading
[10:56] <oimon> i prefer to avoid agencies altogether, but sometimes (particualrly in the city) they are a necessary evil
[10:56] <JGJones> I'm dealing with agencies because I'm still looking for a job.
[10:56] <JGJones> NEED one.
[10:56] <oimon> JGJones: what area?
[10:56] <daubers> JGJones: Where abouts and what kind of job?
[10:56] <oimon> genre
[10:56] <brobostigon> 22h29m uptime no gpu lockup or hang. :)
[10:56] <JGJones> I live just outside of Leeds
[10:57] <JGJones> and working in sysadmin job (last job was it/is manager
[10:57] <daubers> ah, can't help with that :(
[10:57] <oimon> JGJones: i assume you have tried jobs.ac.uk? my employer (ac.uk) told me that if somebody with a disability meets all of the criteria, they MUST shortlist them for interview
[10:57]  * daubers _needs_ an employee :(
[10:58] <oimon> private sector tend to ignore the law
[10:58]  * brobostigon needs an empoloyer.
[10:58] <JGJones> oimon, yup I know far too bloody well
[10:58] <brobostigon> employer*
[10:58] <JGJones> I often get asked in interviews - so...how do you deal with telephones? Meetings etc. I give them solutions.
[10:58] <czajkowski> we've hired a blind person so I beg to differ about the private sector.
[10:59] <JGJones> czajkowski, Nah, it happens. Yes private sector do hire, but they're not as good as public sector. Speaking from experience.
[10:59] <daubers> Urgh, another day of teaching resellers how to do their job
[11:00] <czajkowski> public sector tend to be civil servant so employed techincally by the gov at least back at home., so ther are a lot more options avilable.
[11:00]  * daubers disappears for a day of frustration and trying not to shout at people
[11:00] <czajkowski> *available
[11:00] <JGJones> My worst was with McAfee - I pretty much lost my job in the end with zilch support, mind you, that was years ago before I knew about DDA or Access to Work.
[11:02] <oimon> JGJones: durham uni are hiring sysadmin types
[11:03] <DJones> daubers: Thats true about the £5K of work, we've found they spend maybe 5 minutes emailing random cv's through, 30 minutes ringing prospective employee's and 48 hours ringing asking for payment of their invoice
[11:04] <oimon> estate agents and recruitment agents fall into similar categories of contempt
[11:04]  * AlanBell waves JGJones in the direction of the other window . . .
[11:05] <DJones> oimon: I'm not sure whether recruitment agent or estate agents would be nearer the bottom of the list
[11:06] <oimon> also soloictors...the reason people don't make wills is fear of getting ripped off
[11:10] <BigRedS> oooh. Gwibber calls itself 'ubuntu' to Twitter
[11:12] <DJones> BigRedS: Yes, its done that for a while
[11:13] <bigcalm> While http://yfrog.com/gy7njgicj is being serviced, I get http://yfrog.com/h3qamtjj - what happened to like for like?
[11:13] <dogmatic69> lol
[11:13]  * bigcalm has a sad
[11:13] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: they both French cars ;)
[11:13] <DJones> It looks pretty similar, wheel at corner etc
[11:14] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: all of the cars I've owned have been french
[11:14] <bigcalm> I can confirm that the 107 is a PoS though.
[11:15] <DJones> 2CV?
[11:16] <bigcalm> Citeron(sp?)
[11:16] <bigcalm> and then 3 Peugots: 406 406 407
[11:17]  * bigcalm ponders thraping the loan car for fun
[11:18] <DJones> I've got a 53 plate picasso, wife has a C3, I've probably had cars made in most countries except Germany for some reason
[11:19] <gord> seriously. why are government websites the worst developed ones in the world?
[11:19] <gord> "your password contained invalid characters, your password may only contain numbers and letters"
[11:20] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: ive seen that 107 is a c1 is toyota something
[11:20] <bigcalm> gord: because web dev contracts are awarded to the lowest bidder
[11:20] <dogmatic69> guy at work has the c1 and says its nice o.o
[11:20] <gord> bigcalm, but i don't even understand the logic there
[11:20] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: yes
[11:20] <bigcalm> gord: wed dev was having a bad week?
[11:20] <gord> why would you block non alphanumeric characters from a password?
[11:20] <gord> thats *extra* work for less security
[11:21] <DJones> Bloke where I used to work went from a peugeot 405 to a 107 because his daughter was learning to drive, only trouble was he had to go on a diet to be able to sit comfortably in it
[11:21] <bigcalm> Hehe
[11:23] <bigcalm> My fiancee is a tiny lady and drives a hyundai matrix. If I have to move her car, I have to move the seat from the 1st notch to the last notch and even then it feels cramped.
[11:23] <bigcalm> Oops, I meant to say petite :)
[11:23] <willy_1977> bigcalm: a friend (20st rugby prop) always get's a nissan micra as his "courtesy" car... :)
[11:24] <DJones> gord its a security thing, the less characters available to use for a password, the easier it is for the security service to break the password
[11:24] <willy_1977> it's like those clowns getting out of the little car sometimes...
[11:24] <bigcalm> fewer
[11:24]  * bigcalm coughs and goes to make a brew
[11:25]  * oimon wonders what the number of files and folders in the home directory should be for optimum productivity
[11:26] <DJones> 42
[11:26] <popey> zero unhidden files, about 12 folders ;)
[11:27] <oimon> currently after 30 mins of tidying, am at 74 folders, 80 files..
[11:27] <Laney> apparently the human brain can only scan 5/6 objects at once
[11:27] <Laney> after that you have to look at them individually
[11:27] <popey> so lots of hierarchy then Laney ?
[11:27] <oimon> tab completion :P
[11:27] <Laney> right
[11:27] <gord> something on my desk beeped. unfortunately it was a beep i have never heard before. so i will never ever know what that beep was for or what of many useless devices it was :(
[11:28] <oimon> i have seen some ridiculously hierarchical trees that make things worse, rather than better
[11:28] <Laney> but maybe with alphabetically sorted items you know where to begin looking
[11:29] <oimon> also, tools like tracker search help a lot
[11:29] <oimon> i have a question that's bugged me for ages - how do you add to gnome panel when it is full of icons and applications? no blank space
[11:42] <davmor2> morning all
[11:43] <brobostigon> good morning davmor2
[11:43] <gord> oimon, you don't unless you make space
[11:44] <davmor2> czajkowski: morning, did you like your late night reminder I was still online :D
[11:45]  * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
[11:45] <davmor2> czajkowski: what?
[11:46] <gord> hrm, trying to think of a use for a space 2gb sd card, but hard to think of any uses for that
[11:46] <popey> wii?
[11:47] <oimon> gord: i use things like that for encrypted doc storage
[11:48] <gord> already have a wii sd card
[11:48] <gord> this is from the nintendo 3ds, you get a free 2gb one but i put in a space 16 gb one i found when cleaning up
[11:48] <oimon> you can also use 2gb card for booting live usb
[11:49]  * oimon wishes he found spare 16gb card when cleaning up
[11:49] <oimon> gave my missis a new 2gb usb stick..she was overjoyed...it broke a few days later
[11:50] <popey> gord: put a keylogger on it and leave it in the street
[11:50] <gord> i don't like using sd cards for live installs, usbs are more convenient and they seem faster
[11:51] <gord> hehe
[11:51] <gord> windows disabled autorun now though didn't they?
[11:51] <popey> rename it to farmville.exe
[11:52] <willy_1977> popey: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[11:53] <gord> geez, the destruction you could cause with something renamed to farmville.exe
[11:53] <oimon> ugh why are cashbacks becoming more popular with IT purchases?
[11:53] <directhex> oimon, because on;ly about 15% of people ever use cashbacks or rebates
[11:54] <oimon> and it's virtualy impossible to arrange when doing a corporate purcahse :(
[11:55] <directhex> yep, that's the idea
[11:56] <oimon> anyone used a dell latitude 13? thinking of getting one for a colleague
[11:57] <directhex> i used to have a latitude e4300
[11:57] <directhex> in my yoof
[12:00] <oimon> cheeky dell now started autoselecting 15 months of antivirus by default.
[12:10] <DJones> oimon: What sepc are the latitude 13's, I'm looking at laptops myself
[12:10]  * popey sends a massive mail to the list
[12:10] <popey> based on http://xkcd.com/386
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> popey: uh oh :)
[12:11] <oimon> DJones: faster processor is Intel® Core™ 2 Duo SU7300(1.3GHz,800MHz,3MB
[12:11] <oimon>  http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/latitude-13/pd
[12:11] <DJones> oimon: Right, I'm looking for an i3/i5
[12:11] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-March/029304.html
[12:12] <oimon> the 14 inch e5410 has that i think. plus the latitude 14r is out in the states..not sure when coming here
[12:12] <DJones> Just managed to persuade the interweb to let me access that page
[12:12] <MartijnVdS> popey: it's only massive because of the file listing
[12:12] <popey> yeah
[12:14] <DJones> oimon: I'm stuggling to find something, ideal laptop will be 15-17" screen, 1366*768 or 1600*900, i3/i5, dedicated graphics and at a reasonable price
[12:15] <popey> MacBook Pro
[12:15] <popey> oh, you said reasonable price ;)
[12:15] <oimon> $$£££
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> €€€
[12:15] <popey> mine was 900+VAT which is comparable with others of the same/similar spec
[12:15] <oimon> DJones: did i recommend deal outlet store to you or someone else the other day?
[12:15] <oimon> /deal/dell/
[12:15] <DJones> oimon: Yes, dell outlet
[12:16] <AlanBell> popey: awesome email :)
[12:16] <oimon> lenovo is popular with geeks too though i hear
[12:16] <popey> :)
[12:17]  * oimon waits for mailman to do it's archiving..
[12:18] <oimon> ah it's there already
[12:18] <DJones> I looked at lenovo, but they were either too expensive or screen size too small, I found an acer that met everything except dedicated graphics, its just got intel hd graphics which from what I've read isn't liked by minecraft
[12:20] <DJones> Although this looks a reasonable deal
[12:20] <DJones> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/asus-a52f-ex911v-red-laptop-08702336-pdt.html
[12:20] <oimon> http://uk.insight.com/en-gb/productinfo/laptops/LENYANVLGQ << look cheap
[12:20] <DJones> Just have to forget about the dedicated graphics
[12:22] <oimon> i am averse to nvidia cards in laptops after seeing so many fry.
[12:22]  * Daviey bought a non-ibm lenavo last year.. absolute rubbish bit of kit.
[12:23] <oimon> Daviey: which one?
[12:23] <DJones> Hmmh, just looking at that asus a52f, blurb about it says "17.3" widescreen LCD display with sparkling 1600 x 900 resolution" but description says "1366 x 768"
[12:23] <oimon> where in the world...PC world!
[12:24] <Daviey> oimon, i'll have to check, it's been behind the sofa for the last >6 months untouched.
[12:24] <DJones> Should Intel GMA HD graphics have a problem with ubuntu?
[12:25] <DJones> oimon: Its not just pcworld with that info, pixmania use exactly the same wording
[12:25] <penguin42> DJones: No, it should be fine - it's known to have a few bugs however
[12:26] <DJones> penguin42: What sort of bugs, I guess as long as compiz runs, that would be fine for me, at the end of the day, I'm not a gamer, so its day to day use, browsing, email, irc, multimedia etc
[12:27] <brobostigon> lol, my mp tony baldry, just got cut off by the speaker. :)
[12:27] <brobostigon> banbury's mp*
[12:27] <penguin42> DJones: Yeh compiz should run fine; it's more just occasional crashes or not liking certain setups
[12:27] <oimon> brobostigon: are you watching the parliament channel ?
[12:27] <shauno> they don't serve drinks after lunchtime?
[12:27] <brobostigon> oimon: daily politics, bbc2.
[12:28] <oimon> ok lol
[12:29] <brobostigon> and the PM, didnt even give him a decent answer either, so the question was a total waste.
[12:31] <brobostigon> i dont think the PM is used to give decent answers, me reckons.
[12:31] <brobostigon> giving*
[12:35] <oimon> i've become rather detached from politics in recent years
[12:35] <oimon> not reading a newspaper probably contributes to that
[12:50] <DJones> oimon: I might hav found a laptop candidate http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Laptops/buy-PACKARD-BELL-TJ75-JN-070-Laptop/689203#fulldetails i3/4Gb/ATI Radeon HD 5470 512Mb, although I need to look at teh graphics compatibility
[12:51] <oimon> DJones: makes me nervous that 3yrs warranty is £200...similar warranty on lenovo of similar price is £80
[12:52] <DJones> I don't normally bother with warranties
[12:53] <popey> ewww packard bell
[12:53] <DJones> Graphics looks like its supported OTB
[12:53] <DJones> popey: I used to think that about them, but a few people I know have bought them in the last couple of years and they've been rock solid
[12:54] <brobostigon> oimon: it caught my interest again, as i started to read private eye again.
[12:54] <popey> i watch bbc news in bed as I go to sleep
[12:54] <popey> sends me off nicely :)
[12:54]  * popey hugs ipad
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> popey: you like nightmares? :)
[12:56] <popey> :)
[12:57] <issyl0> matti: I'm alive! :-)
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zxaZDsOuqE ?
[13:00] <issyl0> MartijnVdS: Err. :P
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: Not like that? :)
[13:02] <issyl0> No..
[13:02] <issyl0> Not like that...
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> aww
[13:06]  * oimon has home-made pot noodle for lunch
[13:10] <smittix> Afternoony
[13:10] <brobostigon> good afternoon smittix
[13:10] <smittix> Alreet?
[13:11] <willy_1977> oimon: where did you get all the chemicals for that from? I bet you're on some govt watch list for ordering all of them :p
[13:11] <brobostigon> smittix: not bad, could be better, and you?
[13:11] <oimon> willy_1977: home made pot noodle includes real chicken :)
[13:11] <smittix> brobostigon: Not bad ta :)
[13:11] <brobostigon> smittix: :)
[13:12] <oimon> somehow managed to reproduce a kind of pot noodley taste though
[13:12] <willy_1977> :o without the chemicals my word golden wonder have been saying that's impossible! nice work, chicken and noodles and stuff me likey!
[13:13] <oimon> still working on colonel saunders recipe though..i think the secret blend is just MSG
[13:13] <willy_1977> and hydrogenated fat...
[13:13] <DJones> oimon: I remember watching hugh fernley-whittingham making home made pot noodles a few months back
[13:14] <popey> i think it was someone else, not hugh
[13:14] <oimon> popey: for april fools day will you be installing elementary OS on your macbook?
[13:14] <oimon> the bald dude
[13:14] <popey> nope
[13:14] <popey> a guy in a barn?
[13:14] <DJones> popey: There were 2 of them making them hugh & somebody else & then taste testing them
[13:14] <oimon> heston blumenthal?
[13:15] <willy_1977> DJones: aye I seem to recall that too...
[13:15] <popey> hmm
[13:15] <popey> the one I saw was a guy explaining what goes into food
[13:15] <popey> he made lots of things like sausages, ice cream.. noodles
[13:15] <DJones> http://www.rivercottage.net/recipes/chorizo-tomato-instant-noodles-in-a-pot/
[13:15] <willy_1977> popey: ah that was good too, now who was that... errr....
[13:16] <oimon> pot noodles use medium noodles rather than thin noodles :P
[13:16] <popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/programmes cant see it here
[13:16] <willy_1977> Jimmys food factory wasn't it?
[13:17] <brobostigon> willy_1977: that it is, :)
[13:17] <popey> yeah thats it
[13:17] <popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vy641
[13:17] <popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00bzjp8
[13:17] <willy_1977> put me off for a few minutes...
[13:17] <willy_1977> :p
[13:17] <popey> heh
[13:18] <directhex> boing
[13:18] <popey> splat!
[13:18] <willy_1977> said zebedee?
[13:19] <brobostigon> dixons group , sales have dipped 10% since christmas.
[13:22] <oimon> i would expect a lot of retailers to have the same problem. petrol prices and electricity, combined with food inflation is killing my wage packet
[13:22] <directhex> brobostigon, good.
[13:23] <brobostigon> directhex: elaborate.
[13:23] <DJones> Its not just that, sales start earlier and earlier, so people buy in the sales around christmas which boosts sales then, so afterwards they have further to fall
[13:23] <directhex> dsg is institutionally evil.
[13:23] <brobostigon> directhex: ?
[13:24] <oimon> they regularly sell crippled laptops  with insufficient RAM to poor unsuspecting technophobes
[13:24] <directhex> i spent a few months working at pc world, in my yoof
[13:24] <brobostigon> i shouldpoint out, i have never bought anything from them.
[13:24] <brobostigon> oimon: ouch,
[13:24] <directhex> did you know they have a shrink wrapping machine in the warehouse, so they can re-sell used goods as new?
[13:25] <brobostigon> directhex: oh dear, :(
[13:25] <oimon> they also pushed the hard sell on my mum when buying a laptop to get some online storage 50gb thing, and a pricey MS office package
[13:25] <oimon> unfortunately i was not with her at the time and she succumbed
[13:26] <brobostigon> :(
[13:26] <brobostigon> thats not good to hear,
[13:26] <oimon> friends don't let friends go to DSG :)
[13:27] <DJones> PCworld is ok as long as you know what you're going for and have specific models in mind
[13:27] <brobostigon> the cloest i have been to either, is the maplins, which is next door.
[13:27] <oimon> i was also mocked in pc world for asking where the eee pc without windows was
[13:28] <brobostigon> oimon: :(
[13:28] <directhex> oimon, yeah, i got that when i bought an acer there
[13:28] <brobostigon> oimon: that is justdamnleck of eduction and FUD.
[13:28] <directhex> brobostigon, they don't hire people who know about technology
[13:28] <directhex> they hire confident liars. sales is confidence trickery
[13:28] <brobostigon> directhex: that explains it.
[13:29] <directhex> just sound certain, and people will buy
[13:29] <oimon> yeah, and 16yr old eejits who think they are the nuts
[13:29] <willy_1977> they are nuts
[13:29] <brobostigon> directhex: that is truly sad.
[13:30] <oimon> brobostigon: you sound surprised
[13:30] <directhex> i got 2 formal complains on my record when i worked there for 3 months
[13:30] <DJones> directhex: I was just about to say the same thing, they're salespeople, mainly selling to people who don't know what they're buying & rely on the salesperson to say you can do this, this and this
[13:30] <directhex> both for helping customers
[13:30] <brobostigon> oimon: not really, but i am at the same time, as i have never beem near the place.
[13:30] <oimon> anyone been to bestbuy? i hear they are starting up over here
[13:30] <brobostigon> oimon: i havent,no.
[13:31] <brobostigon> directhex: ouch, :(
[13:31] <oimon> tbh i am a make do and mend kind of guy. i tend not to buy much gear
[13:31] <directhex> oimon, 3 branches iirc
[13:31] <willy_1977> DJones: it appears you have been helpful whilst serving this customer we have no choice but to start a formal complaint proceedings...
[13:31] <directhex> brobostigon, one for correcting a salesman in front of the customer, when he was selling a PS/2 keyboard for use on a mac
[13:32] <brobostigon> directhex: well, agreed, that isnt possible, so you was right.
[13:32] <oimon> my mum also got fleeced in DSG for a super duper gold scart cable for the DVD player
[13:32] <DJones> directhex: That black mark wouldn't have been for helping the customer, it'd have been for making the salesman look like an idiot
[13:32] <directhex> brobostigon, the other for selling a high-end pc with extended warranty when asked for help by a customer, because the salesmen were all hanging around the all-in-one printers chatting about how one would be on Ibiza Uncovered talking about some fat bird he'd slept with
[13:32] <oimon> cost £30 or something. my dad took it back
[13:32] <directhex> DJones, bingo
[13:33] <brobostigon> directhex: oh dear,
[13:33] <DJones> directhex: What was your job their?
[13:33] <DJones> s/their/there
[13:34] <directhex> DJones, merchansider. which is fancy talk for "guy who attempts to make sure the shelf displays are correct"
[13:34] <directhex> which isn't the same as "shelf stacker", before anyone starts
[13:34] <brobostigon> directhex: so shelf continuity,
[13:35] <DJones> I worked in asda back in the days it was a corner shop, we had merchendiser's who'd come in from manufacturers to check/adjust their own displays
[13:35] <ali1234> it's the guy who makes sure the thing you want is as hard to find as possible so you have to ask for help and/or spend ages looking around the shop
[13:35] <directhex> ali1234, the key is to make sure the end-cap promotions are up to date and valid, since they're paid spots
[13:36] <directhex> ali1234, any item on an end-cap in dsgi paid to be there
[13:36] <ali1234> haha
[13:36] <directhex> oh, btw, staff will lie about commission
[13:36] <DJones> ali1234: Thats management, we hide the stuff you want & need so you have to ask & we can say its over there next to the tat you don't want or need but is prominently displayed and looks good
[13:36] <oimon> yeah, like hard drives
[13:36] <oimon> you have to ask for them
[13:36] <directhex> they *are* on commission, but they lie and say they aren't because it's not *called* commission
[13:37] <oimon> sales incentive
[13:37] <ali1234> why would you even ask them if they are on commision?
[13:37] <directhex> or "CABS" for spot payments
[13:37] <ali1234> for that matter why would you even talk to the staff in any of these shops?
[13:37] <directhex> e.g. "sell this model of epson, earn 5 quid. sell that model, earn a tenner"
[13:37] <directhex> ali1234, you or i wouldn't. we're not their target customer
[13:38] <directhex> oh, the other fun thing is admin terminals can display the margin on an item
[13:38] <ali1234> i thought it was more like "sell more of this freezer than anyone else, get a stereo"
[13:38] <directhex> you know those overpriced belkin cables?
[13:38] <oimon> one guy in comet/curry's i forget which, told me i would be sent a latter when the warranty expired so i could send back unused warranty and get a refund, (that was a popular trick in those days)
[13:38] <directhex> they're only about 50% proft
[13:38] <oimon> of course i never got the letter and was outside the 30 days notice period :(
[13:38] <directhex> but the pc world cables, which are a quid cheaper, are about 95% profit
[13:39] <oimon> ugh
[13:39] <directhex> they pay 50p wholesale, and charge £14
[13:39] <brobostigon> the worst i have seen upto now, was in a maplins, and i asked for some linear potentionmeters, and the guy behind the desk, and had the biggest clueless gaze i have ever seen.
[13:39] <oimon> i would give you the same gaze
[13:39] <oimon> and then search on the computer
[13:40] <brobostigon> so i had to explain to him what one was, and what one looked like, nd after a few tries he got close,
[13:41] <brobostigon> after i gave up, and pointed to what i wanted inside their catalogue.
[13:41] <ali1234> there's a reason why everything has order codes you know
[13:42] <brobostigon> ali1234: i didnt have the code at the time, i just knew what i wanted, however, yes , i agree.
[13:43] <oimon> with maplins i tend to print out the page from teh website and hand it over to the components dude
[13:43] <oimon> they are usually quite helpful
[13:43] <ali1234> just write down the order code geez
[13:43] <ali1234> it's only 5 digits
[13:43] <oimon> but it has a picture too :)
[13:43] <oimon> and the price :)
[13:44] <brobostigon> ali1234: that is what i have done since, i found the component guy here in banbury. was so clueless.
[13:44] <MartijnVdS> http://www.brainlesstales.com/2011-03-30/venn-ding-machine
[13:45] <s-fox> Hello.
[13:45] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: amusing
[13:45] <brobostigon> s-fox: good afternoon.
[13:45] <s-fox> Hello brobostigon . How are you?
[13:46]  * brobostigon goes and installs mumble.
[13:46] <brobostigon> s-fox: not bad, could be better, nd you?
[13:46] <s-fox> I am okay thank you, though a little sore.
[13:47] <brobostigon> s-fox: ok, :)
[13:47] <brobostigon> ohwell.
[13:47] <brobostigon> installing mumble, ready for saturday.
[13:47]  * willy_1977 still needs to do that and get a headset... :/
[13:48] <brobostigon> willy_1977: i have a spare here.
[13:51] <oimon> i have a bluetooth phone headset - would that would too?
[13:53] <willy_1977> hmmm very interesting...
[13:53] <brobostigon> oimon: that would work, yes.
[13:54] <oimon> cool. i got it free for turning up to a trade show...haven't got round to using it with skype or anything  yet
[13:54] <oimon> look forward to trying it
[13:54] <DJones> gord: After you asked about government websites and passwords, here's something just as good, new government website infected with malware http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12904585
[13:54] <brobostigon> oimon: pulseaudio should pick it up fine, as a source,
[13:54] <oimon> this guy is having issues: http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/05/26/using-mumble-with-a-bluetooth-headset/
[13:55] <gord> ha
[13:56] <oimon> argh meetings for the next 2 hrs
[14:00] <directhex> oh, maplins are extra special
[14:00] <directhex> print out the web page, as suggested
[14:00] <brobostigon> ?
[14:00] <directhex> they have a proxy on the computers in the store, with a fake version of the maplin website, with higher prices on it
[14:01]  * popey chuckles at oimon "this guy"
[14:01] <directhex> so if you check prices in-store, they're higher than from home
[14:01] <popey> where "this guy" is the CTO of Canonical :)
[14:02] <czajkowski> Nasa Open source summit http://www.slideshare.net/ckleclerc
[14:04] <directhex> czajkowski, getting into AMES is fun :/
[14:04] <DJones> Had to google then for CTO, I was guessing chief treausry officer, but I see its technical
[14:05] <shauno> that's usually cfo  (financial) :)
[14:06] <DJones> shauno: I've seen both, treasury seems to be used a fair bit overseas
[14:06] <davmor2> oimon: also that issue was the 26/5/2010
[14:11] <brobostigon> where do i tell pulseaudio to use a different microphone input again?
[14:14] <willy_1977> brobostigon: is that not in system settings / sounds ?
[14:14] <czajkowski> what is NIH in the blog post which martin krafft says
[14:15] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod, just cause you need it to remember your alive
[14:16]  * czajkowski sends davmor2 to the naughty step. 
[14:16] <davmor2> brobostigon: sound settings
[14:16] <davmor2> brobostigon: in fact sound preferences, input tab
[14:16] <popey> czajkowski: "Not Invented Here"
[14:16] <willy_1977> czajkowski: hummm is it Not Invented Here?
[14:17] <czajkowski> popey: willy_1977 thanks
[14:17] <popey> czajkowski: url?
[14:18] <brobostigon> thankyou willy_1977 and davmor2
[14:19] <davmor2> brobostigon: Happy to help when I can :D
[14:19] <willy_1977> ^^^^ that ;)
[14:19] <czajkowski> popey: it's in the blog post from Mat 1st commend from madduck
[14:21] <popey> yeah, I was asking for a url :)
[14:22] <davmor2> czajkowski: ^ I think that one was aimed at you :D
[14:23] <matti> iceflatline: ;]
[14:23] <matti> issyl0: ;]
[14:28] <czajkowski> popey: 13:54 < oimon> this guy is having issues: http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/05/26/using-mumble-with-a-bluetooth-headset/
[14:28] <czajkowski> popey: sorry having a blonde moment day
[14:28] <iceflatline> matti: yes?
[14:28] <popey> heh
[14:29] <MooDoo> davmor2: naughty step lol
[14:29] <matti> iceflatline: Bad tab, sorry ;]
[14:29] <matti> iceflatline: I wanted to stalk the young lady there --> issyl0 ;]
[14:29] <brobostigon> davmor2: :)
[14:30] <issyl0> Hehe.
[14:30] <davmor2> MooDoo: Yeah I know,  I brought my bolster and lump hammer with me this time I'm gonna get rid of the step once and for all :D
[14:32] <MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski well and truly told you off :) and i've not annoyed her once today :p
[14:32] <davmor2> MooDoo: 5
[14:32] <davmor2> MooDoo: 4
[14:32] <davmor2> MooDoo: 3
[14:32] <davmor2> ....
[14:34] <MooDoo> lol
[14:34]  * czajkowski glares at MooDoo and davmor2 
[14:34] <czajkowski> seperate ye two, no messing!
[14:35] <MooDoo> czajkowski: ner ner ner ner ner can't catch me
[14:35] <MooDoo> ok so i've turned 3
[14:36] <davmor2> MooDoo: you missed at least one "ner" for that sentence to make any sense what so ever :D
[14:36] <MooDoo> davmor2: phooey
[14:37] <davmor2> absolute 80's playing axel F woohoo!
[14:37] <MooDoo> davmor2: awesome, get some paul hardcastle going too
[14:37] <davmor2> no frog ruining it
[14:38] <brobostigon> i think i have mumble setup properly now.
[14:38] <davmor2> MooDoo: nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnninteen?
[14:38] <MooDoo> yay o/
[14:40]  * AlanBell logs on to mumble
[14:40] <AlanBell> anyone else want to join in?
[14:41] <popey> :( cant
[14:41] <popey> at work behind proxy
[14:41] <popey> and no headset
[14:41] <popey> will do tonight though :)
[14:41]  * MooDoo might figure out how to login but has no mic
[14:42] <popey> is there a command line only mumble client?
[14:42] <shauno> was gonna give it a shot, but can't find my soundcard atm :/
[14:43] <MooDoo> popey: http://mumble.sourceforge.net/3rd_Party_Applications#Commandline-Interfaces
[14:43] <willy_1977> shauno: are you sure it's plugged in?
[14:43] <willy_1977> :p
[14:43] <shauno> willy_1977: if it was plugged in, I'd be able to find it :)   think it may be in a bag somewhere
[14:43] <davmor2> shauno: that's easy see the speacker port the sound card is attached to it :D
[14:43] <willy_1977> shauno: turn it off and back on again I'm sure it'll be fine...
[14:44] <davmor2> AlanBell: what server you using I'll see if mumble will let me log into 2 at the same time
[14:45] <shauno> heh, it's a little usb dongle.  when I lose it I literally, physically can't find it
[14:45] <AlanBell> mumble.libertus.co.uk
[14:45] <brobostigon> that worked fairly well.
[14:45] <AlanBell> it did
[14:45] <AlanBell> I think headset microphones are by far the best for that kind of thing though
[14:45] <willy_1977> shauno: that explains it then... you need a soundblaster 16 pci state of the art my man...
[14:46] <shauno> my laptop doesn't have any spare pci slots :p
[14:46] <willy_1977> bring me solutions not problems... for forty years!
[14:46] <shauno> :)
[14:47] <davmor2> AlanBell: by the look of it it's going to try and over rule my canonical one I might have a play tonight.
[14:48]  * AlanBell enjoys overruling canonical
[14:50] <popey> thanks MooDoo
[14:51] <popey> although the box i was going to use, now i recall, does actually have a GUI
[14:53] <czajkowski> http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/google-to-build-profiles-of-gmail-users-for-advertisers-2601436.html  hmmmm
[14:54] <hamitron> :s
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> Google said Gmail users who do not want their emails to be profiled for behavioural targeting will be able to opt out of the system when it is enabled on their account.

[14:54] <willy_1977> not good... if truthful...
[14:54] <willy_1977> ok... slightly better...
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> It's not like they made it a secret they were going to do this..
[14:55] <willy_1977> fair point...
[14:55] <hamitron> so what happens if people send you loads of email with adult jokes?
[14:55] <popey> change your friends
[14:55] <hamitron> hehe
[14:55] <hamitron> "people" ;)
[14:56] <MartijnVdS> use facebook
[14:56] <willy_1977> go on farcebook... and get some new ones...
[14:56] <hamitron> no noes, not the facebook again :/
[14:56] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: okcupid then?
[14:56] <willy_1977> thaibrides.com?
[14:56] <hamitron> now ya talking willy \o/
[14:57] <hamitron> erm, will
[14:57] <shauno> nifty.  mumble doesn't mind me using two soundcards :o)
[14:58] <willy_1977> hamitron: is that will or willy?
[14:58] <hamitron> "now ya talking will" sounds better I think
[14:58] <hamitron> ;/
[14:58] <willy_1977> yes... quite
[14:59] <willy_1977> especially given the subject... apparently... that site exists too :o
[14:59] <hamitron> thaibribes.com?
[15:00] <hamitron> or nowyatalkingwilly.com
[15:00] <willy_1977> :o
[15:00] <hamitron> haha
[15:00] <willy_1977> I'm at work.
[15:00] <willy_1977> I'll have a look later... oops
[15:00] <shauno> I'm at home, and I'm still not gonna click =x
[15:01] <hamitron> me neither ;/
[15:01] <popey> aaaaaaaahem
[15:01]  * davmor2 finishes demolishing the naughty step and goes back to annoying czajkowski  :P

[15:01] <DJones> If people want a really dodgy website to look at, how about microsoft.com
[15:01] <hamitron> DJones: that is going too far!
[15:01]  * hamitron crosses arms
[15:01] <popey>  /kickban DJones
[15:01] <DJones> Heh
[15:03] <hamitron> 3pm, cup of tea time \o/
[15:03] <hamitron> and cakes
[15:03] <hamitron> brb
[15:04] <davmor2> popey: I thought you only got banned for suggesting apple.com or oracle.com
[15:04] <shauno> I had to try very hard not to mention apple.com/getamac when someone was laptop shopping earlier.  the only reason I didn't is that it appears they've ditched the TV ads, so that page goes somewhere even more boring now
[15:05] <shauno> (and not just to be a pest; new ones came out a month ago, so now's the right time to hit the refurbs page)
[15:06] <popey> yeah, they only advertise iPhone, iPod and iPad now
[15:06] <popey> it seems
[15:06] <shauno> ya.  figures, but I sadly enjoyed how completely cheesy those ads were
[15:07] <shauno> and some of the spoofs made the whole thing worth it :)
[15:08]  * brobostigon returns, with headset.
[15:09]  * AlanBell sees various people connecting to the mumble server
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> there's a mumble server?
[15:09] <AlanBell> mumble.libertus.co.uk
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> I can't try now (at work), will try tonight
[15:10] <gord> mumble is wonderful, the easiest thing to "setup" ever
[15:10] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: using it for the global jam on saturday and the quiz in a few weeks time
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yeah, I had guessed the quiz bit :)
[15:11] <popey> what port does mumble use?
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/FAQ/English#What_is_the_default_server_port_for_Murmur.3F ;)
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> The default server port for Murmur is UDP and TCP 64738.
[15:11] <shauno> 64738 apparently
[15:12] <AlanBell> Remote host mumble.libertus.co.uk (port 64738)
[15:17] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/744325  following on from uupc last night and unity. this is one annoying bug
[15:20] <bigcalm> A wee nap in a darkened bedroom works wonders for persistant headaches
[15:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: work around, make the app the normal size move it over to the app launcher then maximise it
[15:20] <czajkowski> davmor2: no more work arounds
[15:20] <czajkowski> just work normally
[15:20] <czajkowski> >:(
[15:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: it does now for me
[15:21] <popey> AlanBell: connected
[15:21] <popey> cant hear anyone
[15:21] <popey> i cant talk
[15:21] <bigcalm> I can't dance
[15:21]  * hamitron offers  popey lessons
[15:21] <bigcalm> The only thing about me is the way that I walk
[15:21] <czajkowski> davmor2: it comes and goes
[15:22] <brobostigon> mumble is really sucking cpu, its using over 50%
[15:22] <MartijnVdS> on your 386? :P
[15:23] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes.
[15:23] <Myrtti> this cough :-( argghh*coughcough*hhhhh
[15:23]  * hamitron excited about his 200mhz cpu arriving
[15:23] <JGJones> sigh
[15:23] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: quit smoking ;)
[15:23] <JGJones> I'm still getting annoyed with trying to compile libopal...
[15:24] <JGJones> Using instructions here - http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Compiling_Ekiga - I've compile ffmpeg and x264. I'm now attempting to configure/make/make install opal
[15:24] <davmor2> czajkowski: ask gord if it's not his team he'll know who to pick on I'm sure :D
[15:25] <Myrtti> I've never even tried smoking... :-(
[15:25] <JGJones> in configure for opal, it tells me that it can do h263, h264, but then I do a make, it fails with an error which I don't understand yet
[15:25] <czajkowski> davmor2: bug has a lot of comments on it already, hoping it'll be picked up and worked on
[15:27] <gord> eh i thought we had fixed that
[15:28] <JGJones> http://pastebin.com/rpC44ayf
[15:28] <JGJones> hope someone can help :S
[15:30] <czajkowski> gord: FIX Please
[15:33] <bigcalm> Is there anything that <blockquote> can't wrap?
[15:33] <bigcalm> s/can't/shouldn't
[15:35] <davmor2> AlanBell: I can see people but if I try a log in it screws up mumble one channel a time it appear
[15:37] <shauno> I just noticed lubotu3 is clever enough to not give you the url again if you paste a bug's url.  subtle but clever :)
[15:38] <BigRedS> Heh. Everyt time I scroll I get fragments of fish all over my screen
[15:40] <bigcalm> o.O
[15:44] <brobostigon> ok everyone, dont use pulseaudio in mumble, use alsa insted, pulseaudio kills you cpu.
[15:44] <brobostigon> hogs*
[15:46] <davmor2> brobostigon: it doesn't here 8-9 % on both I use it all day
[15:46] <brobostigon> davmor2: you seem to be lucky, :)
[15:47] <AlanBell> Daviey: pingaling
[15:47] <davmor2> BigRedS: don't eat fishrolls at you computer
[15:48] <AlanBell> Daviey: can you point mumble.ubuntu-uk.org at 78.46.222.46 please
[15:50] <BigRedS> Hah, no, I freed the fish the other day
[15:50] <BigRedS> it's getting less and less smooth with time
[15:50] <BigRedS> Oooh, is this a mumble room to go with IRC?
[15:51] <AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah, for events where that makes sense
[15:51] <AlanBell> global jam on saturday and the quiz night
[15:52] <BigRedS> Ah, I was just thinking of suggesting it be used for the jam thingywotsit
[15:52] <BigRedS> Which reminds me, are there dates for OggCamp yet? @_
[15:53] <popey> no
[15:53] <popey> well, yes
[15:53] <popey> but not confimed
[15:53] <BigRedS> Ah, fair enough
[15:54] <BigRedS> I've a really good record of missing the announcement by too much to then be able to go. This year I'm mildly determined to actually be able to turn up
[15:54]  * brobostigon will try and attend, depending on where it is.
[15:54] <popey> It will be within 12 miles of GU14
[15:55] <brobostigon> where is GU14?
[15:55] <czajkowski> gord: my dear! you about ?
[15:55] <danfish> brobostigon: popey's house ;)
[15:55] <danfish> at a guess
[15:55] <popey> ya
[15:55] <brobostigon> i see.
[15:56] <gord> czajkowski, mmhmm, whats up?
[15:56] <BigRedS> Guildford, just south of London
[15:56] <danfish> BigRedS: there's something to the north of London?
[15:56] <danfish> :P
[15:56] <czajkowski> gord: you running natty
[15:56] <shauno> googlemaps really needs an option to show trainlines instead of roads
[15:56] <gord> czajkowski, of course
[15:56] <czajkowski> gord: what happens when you launch tomboy ?
[15:57] <brobostigon> i wonder how easy, and cost and time, it would be to get there,?
[15:57] <gord> czajkowski, erm tomboy launches
[15:57] <czajkowski> and click a new note
[15:57] <hamitron> shauno: I am surprised it hasn't been sponsered to do so
[15:57] <czajkowski> gord: mine when I click launch goes up near the indicator bar, clicking a new note, opens it, but I can get anything to write into it, I cna alt f4 it and close it
[15:57] <shauno> hamitron: that'd be funny.  seeing the shattered remains of british rail trying to cough up enough cash to get google out of bed?
[15:58] <hamitron> :D
[15:58] <hamitron> all they'd have to do is arrange to use google maps on a central site for when ordering tickets
[15:59] <gord> czajkowski, not sure whats going on there, works fine here. make sure to test in the classic desktop before filing a bug incase its just tomboy being weird
[15:59] <hamitron> then "powered by google maps" would be enough
[16:00] <shauno> I think it actually works in london? you click on a tube station and it shows you the rest of the line.   just not with the rest of the network :/
[16:00] <hamitron> nothing obviously exists outside london ;)
[16:01]  * brobostigon has alook on national railenquiries.
[16:03] <shauno> just far too used to google being nifty.  worked in paris too
[16:04] <brobostigon> roughly takes 2hrs, and £19 return/offpeak, £30 return, anytime.
[16:04] <brobostigon> so not bad.
[16:04] <brobostigon> i might be able to do it then.
[16:05] <BigRedS> danfish: yeah, Watford. I think Scotland's that way, too.
[16:06] <czajkowski> gord: feck :( how do I log a bug agains tomboy
[16:07] <gord> czajkowski, ubuntu-bug tomboy
[16:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: the way you report a bug against anything else,  ubuntu-bug <name of app>
[16:08] <popey> czajkowski: hang on
[16:08] <czajkowski> ok
[16:08] <popey> czajkowski: open a terminal
[16:08] <popey> see if tomboy is already running, if it is, close it
[16:08] <popey> open it with tomboy --debug
[16:08] <popey> that's useful to attach to the mail
[16:09] <popey> czajkowski: also have you tried in classic gnome?
[16:09] <czajkowski> popey: aye works fine in that
[16:09] <popey> so its not tomboy then
[16:09] <popey> having seen your laptop I'd not expect this to be a tomboy issue but a compiz/unity one
[16:10] <czajkowski> ah ok
[16:10] <czajkowski> brb need to reboot
[16:10] <gord> good to test in classic + compiz too
[16:15] <davmor2> gord: a tip for the future if czajkowski adds the word dear to a sentence RUN FOR THE HILLS!
[16:16]  * davmor2 blames czajkowski's inability to upgrade without breaking everything under the sun
[16:16] <davmor2> czajkowski: be aware that it might be an Ubuntu One issue if you're syncing notes
[16:29] <bigcalm> \n (unix) \r\n (windows) \r\r (mac?)
[16:33] <shauno> mac's just been \n for the last 10 years.  before that (macos, but not macosx) it was just \r
[16:34] <directhex> CRLF!
[16:35] <issyl0> Hello!
[16:35] <brobostigon> interesting, mumble for android.
[16:35] <BigRedS> oooh. I'd never thought of that
[16:35] <BigRedS> which, come to think of it, is a bit dumb
[16:36] <willy_1977> chr(10)chr(13)  isn't it?
[16:37] <shauno> just 10 on unix :)  but yes
[16:37] <penguin42> brobostigon: Hmm that could be useful
[16:37] <bigcalm> I'll drop the \r\r option then
[16:37] <bigcalm> Ta :)
[16:38] <brobostigon> penguin42: yes, i agree.
[16:38] <penguin42> brobostigon: If it works; I find the normal one quite touchy
[16:39] <brobostigon> penguin42: it works, just tried it, but it sucks ram.
[16:39] <penguin42> normal
[16:41]  * oimon is back from 2 1/2 hours of meetings...sounds like i missed a load of mumbling about mumble
[16:42]  * brobostigon gets oimon a beer.
[16:43] <oimon> swaps it for a ginger one ..not yet 5pm
[16:43] <brobostigon> :)
[16:43] <czajkowski> my laptop seems to be dead
[16:43] <czajkowski> bugger
[16:43] <oimon> does mumble work with pidgin?
[16:44] <brobostigon> oimon: no idea, in truth. maybe there is a plugin.
[16:45] <davmor2> brobostigon: it doesn't work properly iirc
[16:45] <brobostigon> davmor2: ok, it fired up, and didnt give an errors, so i presumed, ok, sorry.
[16:46] <davmor2> brobostigon: it might for an open setup I'm used to canonical's though where it didn't work
[16:46] <brobostigon> davmor2: are we talking about the linux version, or android ?
[16:46] <davmor2> android
[16:47] <shauno> since I haven't seen this mentioned yet, http://youtu.be/9vIsQ25Krq8  :D
[16:47] <brobostigon> ah. ok, thats what i was tlaking about awell.
[16:47] <brobostigon> talking?
[16:49] <djones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12905303 Head of Whitehall IT efficiency drive says Apple products should be used more in government
[16:49] <davmor2> shauno: I'm not a big fan of the new doctor
[16:49] <czajkowski> turns out rebooting my laptop just may have killed it
[16:49] <oimon> dr who is so much better now that russell davies is gone
[16:50] <directhex> russel t davies! \o/
[16:50] <davmor2> czajkowski: girl you need to learn to install from fresh you kill everything with upgrades :P
[16:50] <czajkowski> having to boot from a live cd
[16:50] <czajkowski> but so far it's not going well
[16:50] <czajkowski> tried to boot into recovery mode
[16:50] <czajkowski> and different kernels
[16:51] <djones> If Dr Who had been on ITV, I wonder if the last series would have been sponsored by Polyfilla to get that crack sorted out
[16:51] <brobostigon> lol
[16:51] <davmor2> djones: nice
[16:55] <czajkowski> davmor2: can I have your laptop please
[16:55] <czajkowski> :D
[16:56] <danfish> czajkowski: what error are you getting?
[16:58] <czajkowski> it's not booting up. it hangs on start up
[16:58] <danfish> nothing at all?
[16:59] <davmor2> czajkowski: Nope you'll break it and I need it :P
[17:00] <czajkowski> davmor2: trying live cd now
[17:00] <czajkowski> and booting into that and see if that kicks it into life
[17:01] <davmor2> czajkowski: you don't need to tell me that you are trying to kill you computer honest.
[17:03] <djones> I'm amazed that computer hasn't been put on the naughty step
[17:03] <daubers> Afternoon
[17:03] <daubers> London is much like Mos Eisley space port
[17:03] <davmor2> djones: her computer is the naughty step I demolished the real one earlier
[17:03] <daubers> never will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy
[17:04] <directhex> daubers, that's cambridge
[17:04] <davmor2> daubers: harsh
[17:05] <davmor2> directhex: I think you'll find it's any university lowering it to just Cambridge isn't fair :P
[17:05] <daubers> directhex: Easier to deal with cambridge, same as oxford. People on push bikes bounce off your bonnet easier
[17:08] <JGJones> Hey, does Empathy's SIP account do video calls? And what video codecs can it support? I assume it would be anything that's supported via GStreamer?
[17:12] <czajkowski> ok in order to get back online
[17:12] <czajkowski> boot to recover mode
[17:12] <czajkowski> fail
[17:12] <czajkowski> boot to different kernel fail
[17:13] <czajkowski> boot to live cd
[17:13] <czajkowski> yes
[17:13] <czajkowski> mount /home
[17:13] <czajkowski> yes all there and working
[17:13] <czajkowski> reboot
[17:13] <czajkowski> and boot to recovery mode and we;re back
[17:14] <gord> only two post-it notes attached to my monitor now, today has been productive :)
[17:14] <czajkowski> gord: I can give you a lot more if you want
[17:14] <czajkowski> :D
[17:15] <BigRedS> I've just been awed by PHP's json functions
[17:15] <gord> czajkowski, launchpad bugs don't get post-its, you people are good enough reminders ;)
[17:15] <czajkowski> gord: we love you too!
[17:15] <BigRedS> this might be the beginning of a slippery slope
[17:21] <willy_1977> see you around later folks, have a good day/evening/whatever if I don't see you.
[17:44] <davmor2> JGJones: yes it does.
[17:50]  * czajkowski prods and gags davmor2 
[17:52] <davmor2> czajkowski: hummmffffle, hrrmmmumrrrm rummarm
[17:53] <czajkowski> davmor2: gone past the naughy step, nose in the corner! thank you
[17:54] <davmor2> czajkowski: :P
[17:54] <davmor2> czajkowski: Shan't :P :P :P :P
[18:12] <KrimZon> does anyone else notice new tabs just appearing without having been requested, in firefox 4?
[18:13] <KrimZon> I'm getting it with images, possibly part of the content of sites I'm looking at like addons.mozilla.org, or possibly stuff I tried to open ages ago but it wasn't loading so I closed the tab
[18:23] <gord> heh, i printed off A4 version's of the AR cards you get with the 3ds, ended up with mii's half the size of me running around my living room :D
[18:24] <gord> technology is amazing
[18:25] <directhex> gord, seen the 15m one?
[18:25] <gord> directhex, yup, of course
[18:25] <gord> not going to that length ;)
[18:25] <directhex> not too interested in the 3ds
[18:48] <davmor2> czajkowski: you broken anything else?
[18:48] <davmor2> czajkowski: how was the live cd?
[19:09] <brobostigon> mumble is freezing after i connect, totally. :(
[19:11] <davmor2> brobostigon: on what android or linux?
[19:11] <brobostigon> davmor2: ubuntu natty.
[19:12] <brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mumble/+bug/567636 that is it.
[19:22] <oimon> hey guys, seen this one? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12905303
[19:23] <oimon> "He insisted the government was committed to using more "open source"  software to save cash - but had to balance this with concerns about how  easily it could be "hacked"."
[19:23] <oimon> ermm...
[19:25] <ali1234> yeah, i think the gov should run all their sites off drupal
[19:25] <ali1234> that definitely won't get hacked
[19:26] <oimon> i think he's got things back to front.. maybe MS have been feeding him FUD
[19:27] <ali1234> he's an apple user
[19:29] <oimon> yeah, that will save money LOL
[19:45]  * MartijnVdS just had a brilliant (?) plan: "dishwasher safe" -- build a safe into a dishwasher (to confuse people looking for valuables)
[19:47] <ali1234> that's actually a quite good idea
[19:48] <Azelphur> until the thief goes looking for your silverware :p
[19:48] <ali1234> of course, you could just get a normal safe
[19:48] <ali1234> since they are pretty hard to steal anyway
[19:48] <hamitron> shotgun would work also, and give you a feeling of payback
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Sure, but if you hid it in your dishwasher as well!
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: think of the possibilities!
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: except when you're out of town :)
[19:49]  * hamitron just has visions of the seal breaking and all that cash getting wet
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: money laundering
[19:50] <hamitron> how so?
[19:50] <hamitron> ;/
[19:50] <hamitron> hehe
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: like laundry
[19:51] <hamitron> us geeks are supposed to wash?
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> I even iron my shirts these days
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> (shock, horror)
[19:51] <hamitron> I do my best to get someonee else to do them
[19:51] <hamitron> ;)
[19:52] <oimon> shirts iron themselves don't they?
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> oimon: t-shirts.. yes :)
[19:52] <hamitron> t-shirts need ironing :/
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> no they don't :)
[19:52] <hamitron> yes they do you set of slobs
[19:52] <hamitron> ;D
[19:53] <oimon> i just hang them up and the creases drop out
[19:53] <oimon> then i wear stuff over the top anyway
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> oimon: you must live in a very humid place
[19:53] <hamitron> I need a different brand of t-shirt :/
[19:53] <oimon> my work shirts are non-iron..they do OK
[19:53] <hamitron> polo shirts are better... but i still prefer to iron
[19:53] <oimon> i'm not a salesman or anything, i don't need crisp starchy collars or anything
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> neither am I
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> but my green (yes, grass green) shirt really needs an iron every once in a while :)
[19:55] <oimon> i would iron them if i had time, but if i had time i would probably do other things instead
[19:55] <oimon> i'm watching cleveland show right now - what an excellent programme
[19:55] <hamitron> I've found dressing to work really hard
[19:56] <hamitron> you need trousers and shirts to be smart, but jeans so you can do the work without burning holes in ya knees
[19:56] <oimon> i'm the smartest IT dude around
[19:57] <oimon> a lot of others wear tshirts with holes and sandals :P
[19:57] <oimon> in my current environment
[19:58] <hamitron> dunno what it is with the sandals :s
[19:58] <hamitron> way as well wear a straw hat while ya at it
[20:01] <hamitron> but there again, I should be careful, there are probably a lot of sandal wearers here? ;)
[20:01]  * mgdm looks at RMS standing in the corner
[20:02] <hamitron> hehe
[20:02] <hamitron> I actually tried to get a company to move to linux, and they asked me about him
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: he wears sandals so he can eat stuff off his feet easier
[20:03] <hamitron> they though it was dodgy just because they'd come across a webpage with a picture of him on
[20:05] <oimon> lol
[20:05] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: *boke*
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vIsQ25Krq8 \o/ (Dr Who trailer for the new season)
[20:05] <hamitron> I enabled youtube on my comp last night too \o/
[20:05] <oimon> should be at a stag do tonight but i'm looking after baby instead :(
[20:06] <brobostigon> oimon: :(
[20:06]  * brobostigon gets oimon a beer.
[20:06] <oimon> oh well..that's the way it goes
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> don't have babies then :P
[20:08] <mgdm> Hindsight is 20/20, and all that
[20:10] <oimon> the baby is worth it :)
[20:35] <sirgad> hey. Anyone can advise how to modify settings on a LiveCD to add certain default settings?  Using UCK but the info I need relates to how to use the Terminal to make gconf changes.
[20:36] <popey> AlanBell: http://www.bcs.org/category/8401 is that the BCS venue?
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> it shuold be possible to change gconf defaults
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> don't know how though..
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> http://lwn.net/Articles/436012/ -- real or early April Fools?
[20:36] <Azelphur> I wonder if android x86 would perform well in virtualbox on a netbook
[20:37] <sirgad> Hey MartijnVdS. Thanks. Yeah, it's the knowing how and which ones thats my issue too.
[20:37] <Azelphur> would be interesting to get a inspiron mini duo, and have it bring up the android VM when you put it in tablet mode
[20:37] <popey> AlanBell: you know the answer really :)
[20:37] <AlanBell> popey: it is the corridor at the BCS
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> sirgad: running gconf-editor as root should allow browsing + changing defaults
[20:37] <AlanBell> the rooms are to the left of that photo
[20:38] <popey> Would it be appropriate to link to that in the podcast show notes?
[20:38] <gord> Azelphur, poorly :)
[20:38] <Azelphur> aww :(
[20:38] <AlanBell> popey: yup
[20:38] <Azelphur> my other idea was to chroot it
[20:39] <sirgad> MartijnVdS: ok, i'll give that a shot.  thanks.
[20:39] <sirgad> should the defaults i want to change be easy enough to find?  I mean, are the labels pretty descriptive on the whole?
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> usually, yes
[20:41] <sirgad> ok, i'll dive in… :)
[20:42] <oimon> i've just taken over 30 mins to transfer some money into my nationwide e-isa - what a joke
[20:42] <sirgad> I use nationwide. what was the issue?
[20:43] <oimon> they make it really tedious to transfer money around
[20:43] <oimon> after logging in with card+pin, from e-savings you have to transfer to flexaccount then to the e-isa
[20:44] <oimon> but it's really slow and regularly times out too
[20:44] <sirgad> hmm, can't go savings>isa?  weird.
[20:44] <oimon> i also notice they reduced the rates on their e-savings to 0.45% and now go to e-savings-plus for 2% rate
[20:44] <sirgad> at least you have the otp security.  they won't upgrade me to that :(
[20:44] <oimon> mrs oimon has that, i don't
[20:45] <oimon> it's not very secure, cos i have to write it all down
[20:45] <oimon> the halifax account is so much easier
[20:45] <sirgad> lol quel coincidence! I bank with hbos too. they ARE easier, especially afcter the upgrade.
[20:46] <oimon> they advertise a members ISA bond a few years ago with great rates, then you have to transfer it to the e-isa to get semi decent rates
[20:46] <oimon> i hate this chasing game - it's just a con on the customers
[20:46] <sirgad> ooc have you read the nationwide online banking fraud protection conditions?  highly recommended if you use linux.
[20:46] <oimon> nope
[20:46] <sirgad> you may not be covered.
[20:46] <oimon> really?
[20:47] <sirgad> very specific.
[20:47] <oimon> do u have a link?
[20:47] <sirgad> just discovered recently. hang on...
[20:47] <daubers> Evening
[20:47] <brobostigon> good evening daubers
[20:48] <daubers> anyone else having adsl fun in/around slough this evening?
[20:48] <sirgad> pretty sure this is it:
[20:48] <sirgad> http://www.nationwide.co.uk/troubleshooting/browserSupport/default.htm
[20:48] <sirgad> but not loading for me just now.
[20:48] <oimon> loads for me...slow site innit?
[20:48] <sirgad> yupper
[20:49] <oimon> This browser/version (Firefox 3.6) is supported on other operating systems, but not on the operating system you are currently running
[20:49] <oimon> jerks
[20:50] <sirgad> aha, so you're not covered?
[20:50] <oimon> i would never ever use windows to access my bank
[20:51] <sirgad> damn straight. i'm in the middle of creating a LiveUSB without persistence for all my secure banking needs.
[20:51]  * popey wonders why his mumble doent work
[20:51] <oimon> if i was desperate and at someone's house i would use one of the 4 usb sticks in my pocket
[20:52] <oimon> good luck to someone getting into my nationwide account- i struggle to get in most of the time
[20:53] <sirgad> lulz
[20:56] <sirgad> Ok, i'm in gconf-editor in UCK modifying a LiveCD of Ub10.04x64.   Which values do I edit to disable the startup items?
[21:00] <AlanBell> anyone want to play on mumble?
[21:01] <oimon> sirgad: u might wanna ping MartijnVdS on that one, he might not have noticed your question
[21:02] <sirgad> Thanks oimon. i don't think he's an expert in this area anyway, from what he says.  Just asking anyone really :)
[21:02] <popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/30/s04e03-lightning-strikes-twice/
[21:03] <brobostigon> AlanBell: maybe, let me see if i cant find somewhere quiet, and out of the way.
[21:05] <AlanBell> anyone else thinking of joining the Ubuntu Global Jam on saturday?
[21:07] <oimon> i'm liking jcastro's unity blogposts on omgubuntu
[21:10] <oimon> how can i discover if my trackpad supports multitouch?
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> oimon: when it shows a "two-finger" option in the "MOuse" preferences (touchpad tab)
[21:11] <oimon> boo :(
[21:11] <oimon> greyed-out
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> it un-greyed in natty for me
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> so it might be buggy in 10.10
[21:15] <oimon> i'm in 10.04
[21:15]  * oimon fishes around for natty usb stick
[21:20] <popey> top - 20:20:08 up 35 days,  2:45,  6 users,  load average: 39.59, 39.92, 19.12
[21:20] <popey> :(
[21:20]  * popey stabs apache
[21:20] <MartijnVdS> stabpache
[21:20] <Jibadeeha> kill -9 apache
[21:20] <MartijnVdS> kill --with-fire
[21:21] <Jibadeeha> lol
[21:21] <mgdm> popey: before you stab it can you strace -p it for a bit to see what it's up to?
[21:21] <mgdm> popey: unless it's already gone too far...
[21:22] <popey> I give up
[21:22] <popey> uhm
[21:22] <popey> lots of apache processes
[21:22] <popey> this is not good
[21:23] <mgdm> what's your MaxSpareServers set to?
[21:23] <mgdm> and MaxClients, for that matter
[21:24] <popey> right, we're using prefork
[21:24] <popey>     StartServers          5
[21:24] <popey>     MinSpareServers       5
[21:24] <popey>     MaxSpareServers      10
[21:24] <popey>     MaxClients          150
[21:24] <popey>     MaxRequestsPerChild   0
[21:25] <mgdm> maybe set your MaxRequestPerChild to something like 2000 or so - that way if you are hitting a memory leak, the children will die before it has too much effect
[21:25] <popey> right
[21:25] <popey> thanks, will try that
[21:26] <mgdm> is it Wordpress you're running?
[21:26] <popey> apache2ctl graceful will take that new config into account
[21:26] <popey> yes
[21:26] <mgdm> Got any static caching stuff set up?
[21:26] <popey> no
[21:26] <mgdm> Ah! If you can, do that
[21:27] <mgdm> I'm afraid I don't do a lot of WP so I have no recommendations for plugins, but I am aware that there are some
[21:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I've been using this for ages on TheOpenSourcerer WP blog - no issues with it whatsoever: http://ocaoimh.ie/wp-super-cache/
[21:29] <popey> i have had that installed for a while actually
[21:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> alanl@www:~$ uptime
[21:29] <TheOpenSourcerer>  21:29:10 up 103 days, 23:24,  1 user,  load average: 0.53, 0.30, 0.27
[21:29] <popey> not enabled tho :)
[21:29] <mgdm> No point in doing work you dont' need to :)
[21:31] <popey> right, added
[21:31] <popey> thanks chaps!
[21:33] <mgdm> Hope it works :)
[21:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm whacked. Been doing OpenERP, Joomla! _and_ vtiger stuff all day. Time to go to bed with a scotch and a good book.
[21:35] <Azelphur> Anyone here got a netvertible? :)
[21:37] <ali1234> a what now?
[21:38] <MartijnVdS> that one got lost in the marketingspeak filter
[21:38] <Azelphur> http://www.google.co.uk/images?client=ubuntu&channel=cs&q=netvertible&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1908&bih=1032
[21:38] <Azelphur> ali1234: ^
[21:38] <matti> TheOpenSourcerer: ;-)
[21:38] <ali1234> yeah ive got one of those
[21:38] <popey> there's loads of different devices there
[21:38] <MartijnVdS> I'd call it a lap-pad
[21:38] <popey> and yeah, I have one too
[21:38] <Azelphur> cool, which ones did you both get? :)
[21:39] <popey> mine is a toshiba m400
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: that ancient one you had in Sevilla?
[21:39] <popey> yes!
[21:39] <popey> it's now a minecraft server :D
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[21:39] <ali1234> got a lenovo s10-3t courtesy intel and nokia
[21:39] <Azelphur> haha :D
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> sorry
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> [o]
[21:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: that's fancy :p
[21:40] <ali1234> i think the dell one is nicer tbh
[21:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: you get so much free stuff :(
[21:40] <Azelphur> yea, I'm liking the dell one myself
[21:40] <ali1234> the ideapad hinge isn't great
[21:40] <Azelphur> My brother knows a dell outlet guy who should cut me a good deal
[21:40] <ali1234> the dell flip around thing is rock solid
[21:41] <ali1234> ideapad screen wobbles a bit when you touch it
[21:41] <Azelphur> yea, I always worried about the hinge design on most netvertibles
[21:41] <ali1234> i took apart the ideapad and the hinge is kind of crappy inside too, it's just some cable
[21:41] <mgdm> Can I just suggest that we kill that "netvertible" word
[21:41] <mgdm> It's *horrible*
[21:41] <ali1234> yeah me too
[21:41] <Azelphur> :o
[21:41] <Azelphur> what should we call them
[21:42] <mgdm> until "netvertible" came along they were called tablet PCs
[21:42] <Azelphur> I thought tablet PC applied to devices that are just tablets
[21:42] <ali1234> no, those are just tablets
[21:42] <mgdm> which is not brilliant but it doesn't sound like a marketer after 4 pints and a litre of red bull
[21:43] <Azelphur> fair enough, tablet pc it is :P
[21:43] <Azelphur> ali1234: I had an interesting idea, dunno how possible it would be
[21:43] <ali1234> well my verdict is they are too heavy to use like a tablet
[21:43] <ali1234> so if you want to use it that way get a tablet instead
[21:43] <ali1234> but the touchscreen is a lot nicer to use than a touchpad
[21:44] <MartijnVdS> smudges!
[21:44] <ali1234> not really no
[21:44] <Azelphur> xD
[21:44] <ali1234> since they are glossy
[21:44] <willy_1977> evening.
[21:45] <ali1234> i'm wondering what genius decided that the menus on unity would hide until you mouse over them
[21:45] <ali1234> makes unity as rubbish for touchscreen devices as it is for multiheaded desktop
[21:45] <ali1234> which pretty much means it won't work on any of my machines
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> ♥ classic gnome
[21:45] <ali1234> indeed
[21:45] <Azelphur> hehe
[21:46] <Azelphur> ali1234: On android you can chroot to debian/ubuntu, I wonder how difficult it'd be to do the opposite (On Ubuntu chroot to android) for tablet PCs? :P
[21:46] <ali1234> and hildon desktop for the lenovo
[21:46] <ali1234> Azelphur: been done
[21:46] <popey> ali1234: Mark Shuttleworth
[21:46] <ali1234> it's called the android sdk
[21:46] <popey> 21:45:10 < ali1234> i'm wondering what genius decided that the menus on unity would hide until you mouse over them
[21:46] <popey> ^^
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> they should fire that guy 8-)
[21:46] <popey> https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05037.html
[21:47] <ali1234> popey: intel learned the hard way this is a bad idea with the meego netbook interface, which has bits that hide until you mouse over them
[21:47] <popey> check the google doc linked there
[21:47] <ali1234> popey: and now they are busy writing the whole UI from scratch for tablets
[21:47] <popey> look at the home directory in the screenshots :)
[21:47] <Azelphur> ali1234: the android sdk emulator is native/full speed?
[21:48] <ali1234> Azelphur: what is "full speed"?
[21:48] <Azelphur> well, a speed that doesn't suck :D
[21:48] <Myrtti> ♥ XFCE
[21:48] <ali1234> you won;t get android market though
[21:48] <Azelphur> ali1234: is there not hacks for that?
[21:48] <ali1234> but then you wo't get that without buying an android device
[21:48] <ali1234> probably, i wouldn't know about that kind of thing
[21:49] <popey> i am sure I have had the market in my sdk
[21:49] <popey> it's just a tickbox away
[21:49] <Azelphur> cool :D
[21:49] <Azelphur> when I get my tablet PC I'm definitely gonna be trying to pull that off
[21:49] <popey> its not quick
[21:49] <Azelphur> android in tablet mode, Ubuntu in laptop mode would be awesome
[21:50] <ali1234> i think the sdk uses qemu
[21:50] <ali1234> so not full speed
[21:50] <ali1234> i think there is a hack somewhere that runs native android in a window though
[21:50] <ali1234> i dunno why you would want this though
[21:50] <popey> anyone here on natty?
[21:50] <Azelphur> popey: me
[21:50] <popey> CTRL+ALT+T used to open a terminal for me
[21:50] <ali1234> on the test machine sure
[21:51] <popey> it does, but only one, it doesn't open subsequent ones
[21:51] <ali1234> works for me (clasic gnome)
[21:51] <popey> hmm, keyboard shortcut has changed
[21:51] <ali1234> multiple terminals
[21:51]  * popey changes it back
[21:52] <MonsterKiller> hello. im having some problems with rc.local not being run on boot. I can execute the rc.local files manually and they work fine but they dont seem to do anything when the system starts
[21:52] <MonsterKiller> there is a /etc/init.d/rc.local http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbjhwhbjzhbjrr and i have an /etc/rc.local http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbjhwhbkkkhwez
[21:53] <ali1234> what an odd set of things to put in rc.local
[21:53] <MonsterKiller> the /etc/init.d/rc.local was already created i did nothing to it
[21:54] <MonsterKiller> well, it works
[21:54] <MonsterKiller> :P
[21:54] <MonsterKiller> if i do it manually
[21:54] <popey> ah, i did a unity --reset which probably undid my keyboard shortcuts
[21:55] <MonsterKiller> like: /etc/rc.local and everything would run fine
[22:00] <MonsterKiller> anyone have any ideas? been trying to work it out for days now. forgot to mention, using Ubuntu server 10.10
[22:07]  * willy_1977 has just realised that shortcut keys in mumble apply throughout the desk top :p
[22:08] <popey> haha
[22:08]  * popey pokes AlanBell 
[22:09] <willy_1977> popey: it's done on the mumble server I *think*
[22:09] <popey> ahh
[22:09] <willy_1977> would answer there but have fluffed up my ptt setting at the minute :)
[22:09] <popey> hahah
[22:11] <willy_1977> hahah!
[22:12]  * willy_1977 is mumbling
[22:16] <willy_1977> yeah popey the mumble server has the concept of a super user who can fiddle with settings on the root node etc. add channels and the like.
[22:18] <popey> neat
[22:18]  * popey goes looking for a bluetooth headset
[22:21]  * daubers can't mumble because f the 3g interwebs
[22:22] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E03  Lightning Strikes Twice - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/03/30/s04e03-lightning-strikes-twice/
[22:27] <bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1PtpMs6pn4 # titter
[22:29] <Azelphur> bigcalm: lol
[22:44] <AlanBell> popey: willy_1977 restarting the server
[22:44] <willy_1977> kk
[22:45] <popey> :)
[22:45] <popey> i like that it sits there trying to reconnect
[22:45] <willy_1977> yeah, and there's no way to stop it re-trying at all (well I didn't find one... )
[22:46] <willy_1977> "It appears your mumble server is down, mumble client panic..."
[22:47] <AlanBell> might be back up now
[22:47] <brobostigon> it is, :)
[22:54] <Azelphur> anyone know how to get the ADSL info out of the current gen sky routers? :p
[22:54] <willy_1977> bringing back bad memories I have a perfectly good router sat here that has skys firmware on and I'm not with sky anymore...
[22:55] <willy_1977> have you tried the skyusers forums?
[22:55] <Azelphur> nope
[22:55] <willy_1977> hang on I'll try and find a url
[22:56] <willy_1977> are the latest ones the sagem ones?
[22:56] <Azelphur> willy_1977: dunno, hasn't arrived yet
[22:56] <Azelphur> april 4th :P
[22:57] <Azelphur> if it comes to it I'll just plug my router into the sky router and use it as a modem xD
[22:59] <willy_1977> Azelphur: try http://www.skyuser.co.uk/ and do some digging when you know what sort - there has been some talk on there about having to flash them
[22:59] <willy_1977> and then someone came up with the idea of just enabling telnet on them...
[22:59] <Azelphur> fun
[22:59] <ali1234> why april 4th?
[23:00] <RichardoCrispus> Hi?
[23:00] <Azelphur> ali1234: because that's when they deliver the stuff
[23:00] <willy_1977> anyhow long story short sky shutdown some of these loopholes and I can't seem to get at my router anyway so I now have a black net gear door stop :)
[23:00] <Azelphur> (In theory, I'm kind of not holding my breath)
[23:00] <ali1234> can't you just carry on using the old stuff?
[23:00] <Azelphur> ali1234: they give you a preconfigured router and no easy way to get your user/pass
[23:00]  * willy_1977 can't connect to mumble... client problems... :/
[23:01] <Azelphur> but on the other hand, unlimited no fup :3
[23:01] <willy_1977> I saw a page that would generate it for you but I can't find it now...
[23:01] <Azelphur> hehe, I'm sure I'll figure it out
[23:03] <willy_1977> ha... got it... but it'll only allow 3 tries from a single ip daily... just so you know... https://www.cm9.net/skypass/
[23:03] <willy_1977> it depends if they've changed the routers again I guess.
[23:05] <Azelphur> willy_1977: nice ty :D
[23:05] <Azelphur> nice to not have to hack up the sky router, then I can just put it in a cupboard and get it out if I need to call sky because stuff is brokedt
[23:06] <willy_1977> Azelphur: no problem - hope you have more luck than me...
[23:06] <Azelphur> I have no doubt I'll pull it off :)
[23:06] <Azelphur> "It is entirely possible for Sky to detect not only the MAC address of the router you are using, but also the make and model number,"
[23:06] <Azelphur> note to self: forge this information :p
[23:07] <willy_1977> hehee
[23:10] <willy_1977> right catch you laters said I was having an early night tonight... hmmmm
[23:11] <AlanBell> yay, broke into my own mumble server at last
[23:11] <brobostigon> :)
[23:12] <AlanBell> popey: still no DNS joy
[23:12] <popey> :(
[23:12] <AlanBell> but I am off to put the chickens to bed now, maybe it will all sort itself out in the morning
[23:12] <popey> :)
[23:12] <popey> nn
[23:12] <AlanBell> but I have at least made a permanent channel and I can do admin stuff like muting and kicking people
[23:12] <popey> yay
[23:13] <brobostigon> :)
[23:14] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:14] <popey> nn
[23:15] <brobostigon> good night popey, sleep well.
[23:16] <Nafallo> popey: I'm not getting triggered for uupc, and have poked Daviey. I just kicked off a manual sync though, so I should be up-to-date and ready to serve if you want to put me back in the listings.
[23:20] <popey> Nafallo: yay
[23:21] <popey> Nafallo: enabled :D
[23:21] <popey> thank you!
[23:21] <popey> Nafallo: the new sync script only pokes servers that are enabled
[23:22] <bigcalm> popey: Fri & Mon time off aquired :)
[23:22] <popey> :)
[23:24] <Nafallo> popey: heh
[23:27] <Nafallo> popey: there. now the sync script should exit 0 as well.
[23:27] <bigcalm> popey: 45 mins into the podcast and you're doing battle with middle clicking on laptops. I find that clicking both left and right at the same time issues a middle click. Lets see if it's mentioned in the rest of the podcast
[23:28] <popey> is it?
[23:28] <popey> hmmm
[23:28] <Nafallo> clash with paths and rsync being unhappy about not being able to set permissions on /var/www/
[23:28] <popey> on mine, two fingers = right click, three = middle
[23:28] <bigcalm> popey: on the buttons or on the pad?
[23:28] <popey> pad
[23:28] <bigcalm> Ah
[23:28] <bigcalm> Try the buttons :)
[23:29] <popey> i have no buttons :D
[23:29] <popey> mbp
[23:29] <bigcalm> Silly boi :P
[23:29] <hamitron> missing features.....
[23:29] <popey> heh
[23:29] <hamitron> cheap, but not cheap
[23:29] <hamitron> ;)
[23:29] <bigcalm> For those of us who still enjoy physical interaction, clicking the left and right _buttons_ at the same time will issue a middle click ;)
[23:30] <popey> i was amused that laura was sat next to me with a thinkpad
[23:30] <popey> which actually _has_ a middle button
[23:30] <bigcalm> Heh
[23:31] <hamitron> so Mac have gone from 1 button to 0?
[23:31] <gord> you can use middle click on all laptops someway right? i was assured that all laptops have some way of doing middle click
[23:32] <popey> i dont know of a laptop you cant do it on
[23:32] <popey> i own 5 laptops and can do it on all of them
[23:33] <gord> cool
[23:33] <bigcalm> Personally I tend not to tap on the pad for buttons clicks
[23:33] <mgdm> it's a bit of a faff on the Aspire One, but perfectly doable
[23:33] <bigcalm> So I'm sure there are other users like me
[23:33] <gord> note to self, buy more laptops. popey is winning.
[23:33] <bigcalm> Heh
[23:33] <popey> hmmm
[23:34] <bigcalm> But then I know of people who disable the physical buttons
[23:34] <popey> i tend to use a mouse these days
[23:34] <popey> especially as touchpad support on the mbp is linux is _awful_
[23:34] <bigcalm> I always use a mouse if I can
[23:34] <hamitron> popey: and it has no buttons?
[23:34] <hamitron> ;)
[23:35] <popey> it has one giant button
[23:35] <gord> what about people who have mice, but the mouse only has two buttons?
[23:35] <hamitron> a very sensitive one too
[23:35] <popey> usual
[23:35] <popey> press both
[23:35] <gord> cool cool
[23:35] <popey> no, the button isnt sensitive
[23:35] <popey> the touchpad is
[23:35] <Nafallo> ooooh.
[23:35] <popey> separate things
[23:35] <hamitron> k
[23:36] <Nafallo> so THAT'S how I rightclick...
[23:36] <Nafallo> thanks popey! :-D
[23:36] <popey> np :)
[23:36] <hamitron> well, putting aside how functional the mbp is, at least it looks good
[23:36]  * Nafallo goes to sort out his empathy contacts
[23:36] <popey> heheh
[23:37] <gord> i think this app that detects your heart rate is the app i use most on my phone... its fascinating
[23:38] <hamitron> http://www.maplin.co.uk/vx2-mobile-phone-513430?&c=maplin&u=maplinnewsletter&utm_source=banners&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=newsletterproducts&utm_campaign=maplin
[23:38] <hamitron> should I?
[23:38] <hamitron> been asking myself for 4 hours
[23:38] <hamitron> :/
[23:38] <Nafallo> gord: does it tweet the results? ;-)
[23:38] <hamitron> :D
[23:39] <hamitron> and auto reply if your heart stops
[23:39] <bigcalm> hamitron: tesco had those for ages
[23:39] <bigcalm> hamitron: do you need it?
[23:39] <hamitron> bigcalm: any good?
[23:39]  * hamitron shrugs
[23:39] <bigcalm> No idea
[23:39] <gord> hamitron, just based on the fact that the favicon for that site animates, i say no
[23:39] <popey> http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=VX2+review&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gl=uk
[23:39] <bigcalm> I don't need one so haven't bought one
[23:39] <hamitron> use an ngage atm
[23:40] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P9GEkM2jMs
[23:40] <popey> lol
[23:40] <popey> not the same thing AT ALL
[23:40] <bigcalm> Hehe
[23:40] <bigcalm> Somebody is holding the camera?
[23:40] <hamitron> it appears to have a graphical equaliser on the display in the pic
[23:41] <Nafallo> popey: so... how quickly does mirrors get disabled these days? I haven't done my file tweaks to this guest yet, so performance is not as good as it could be :-P
[23:41] <popey> manually
[23:42] <Nafallo> ah. so don't disable ent without poking me then ;-)
[23:44] <popey> ok
[23:45] <Nafallo> that guest does ONLY uupc, so I wont notice unless poked ;-)
[23:45] <Nafallo> oh man... I've missed right click! :-)
[23:49] <hamitron> oh noes
[23:49] <hamitron> I forgot to backup my saved game on civilization when i formated :/
[23:51] <popey> \o/ steam
[23:52] <hamitron> saved games are non-local on steam?
[23:52] <popey> they sync to the cloud
[23:52] <hamitron> that is kinda cool
[23:52] <popey> dead handy if you have more than one computer
[23:52] <hamitron> yeh
[23:52] <popey> i start games on one, finish on another
[23:52] <Nafallo> haha. the cloud is the new matrix.
[23:53] <popey> :)
[23:53] <hamitron> just don't annoy any steam employee, or the saved game you've spent month on "gets it"
[23:53] <Azelphur> hamitron: lol, reminds me of all the kids I get on my server
[23:54] <Azelphur> when they don't get what they want they announce they work at valve and will report me / shut my server down / ban my steam account
[23:54] <Azelphur> xD
[23:54] <hamitron> hehe
[23:54] <ali1234> lolz
[23:54] <Azelphur> happens surprisingly often
[23:54] <Azelphur> the best one I ever had was some guy reconnect after changing his name to "Steam server inspector"
[23:54] <ali1234> i'd be suprised if you couldn't report them for impersonating valve employee
[23:55] <Azelphur> and telling me my server was going to be shut down unless I met his demands xD
[23:55] <hamitron> hehe
[23:55] <popey> http://weirdcorner.com/?p=2082 cute
[23:55] <hamitron> yeh, report them as ali said
[23:55] <Azelphur> lol valve don't care about it :P
[23:55] <Azelphur> they only use VAC and that's about it
[23:56] <ali1234> popey that better not be a screamer
[23:56] <popey> no
[23:56] <popey> "optical illusion"
[23:57] <Azelphur> popey: that's cool :o
[23:57] <Azelphur> 3d animation on paper, haha
[23:57]  * Nafallo srsly considers getting a roomba or equivalent
[23:57] <ali1234> it's not 3d
[23:57] <ali1234> you can do it with video or anything really
[23:58] <Azelphur> ali1234: what?
[23:58] <Azelphur> how's a spinning cube not 3d o.O
[23:58] <hamitron> how is it "cute"?
[23:58] <ali1234> it's not giving different images to each eye
[23:59] <Azelphur> ali1234: I meant 3d in terms of glxgears is a 3d application :p
[23:59] <Azelphur> 3d images rendered in 2d