[02:18] <rick_h_> I HATE MYSQL!
[02:18] <rick_h_> ugh
[02:39] <rick_h_> boom, mysql kiss my ass
[04:30] <jcastro> http://www.androidcentral.com/droid-incredible-reaches-end-life-dinc-2-might-be-just-over-horizon?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+androidcentral+%28Android+Central%29
[04:30] <jcastro> rick and me hanging out
[04:30] <jcastro> with our worthless phones
[12:24] <rick_h_> jcastro: heh yea, fortunately rooting + cyanogen gets me 2.3 so feels a bit newer
[12:25] <rick_h_> but sad it's only been a year since the thing came out and I feel 2 gen behind
[13:10] <rick_h_> great texts to get in the morning: " Great the car smells like poop...thank you Michael"
[13:10] <rick_h_> glad the wife took the boy into day care this morning I guess :)
[13:10] <rick_h_> so am I allowed to reply lol?
[13:28] <wolfger> Yes. You're absolutely allowed.
[13:28] <wolfger> Let us know how that goes. :-)
[13:36] <_stink_> hah, ours did the same thing
[13:42] <ColonelPanic001> My cat does that.
[13:42]  * ColonelPanic001 contributes
[13:43] <rick_h_> nice, in the car?
[13:43] <ColonelPanic001> in the cat carrier in the car, yeah
[13:43] <rick_h_> maybe I should crate the baby
[13:43] <ColonelPanic001> exactly
[13:49] <wolfger> ++
[13:51] <snap-l> Better learn him while they're young
[13:56] <rick_h_> help, I think I'm about to order another keyboard
[13:58] <wolfger> I don't think there's any helping that.
[13:59] <ColonelPanic001> give me some old ones
[13:59] <rick_h_> hmmm, so "NO STOCK
[13:59] <rick_h_> ** Pre-Order **
[13:59] <rick_h_> Ships End of March:
[13:59] <ColonelPanic001> that will help clear up some space
[13:59] <rick_h_> heh, I've got a few I could sell off :P
[13:59] <ColonelPanic001> _stink_: pay the man
[14:02] <_stink_> hay
[14:02] <rick_h_> time to find out how great these cherry mx switches are
[14:02] <rick_h_> vs the model M springs
[14:02] <rick_h_> wish I could try these topre ones without blowing $300 ugh
[14:03] <ColonelPanic001> I should bring in my keyboard from home. I type more here, now, anyway
[14:03] <rick_h_> yea, one nice thing about a lot of nice keyboards is that the work one is a decent clicky model as well
[14:04] <ColonelPanic001> I just have the default one they supplied. Plain old dell thing
[14:04]  * rick_h_ shudders
[14:04] <ColonelPanic001> nothing *wrong* with it, but it's not my MS Natural at home
[14:05] <rick_h_> I've got 3 naturals, sell you one for $20 :)
[14:05] <rick_h_> one is a dell branded one with usb ports I think as well
[14:05] <rick_h_> nope, dell one is at work I think
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> tempting
[14:06] <rick_h_> the ones I have are ps2 though
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> the horror
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> I don't even know if this desktop has ps2 ports
[14:06] <rick_h_> well, when you work on a laptop, ps2 is a bit harder to deal with, but they make adapers
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> yeah
[14:07] <rick_h_> well, if looking for a spare let me know. the naturals were my fav for a while until I got into the actual switches
[14:07] <ColonelPanic001> sure, thanks
[14:07] <rick_h_> used to have one on laptop, desktop, and work
[14:23] <rick_h_> reminder time all, CHC tonight, early edition 7pm
[14:23] <rick_h_> snap-l: Blazeix widox waldo323 _stink_ ^
[14:25] <snap-l> tx, on my radar
[14:26] <tjagoda> So
[14:26] <tjagoda> Just saved $13,896 per year on cell phone costs
[14:26] <tjagoda> I am the best IT guy evar
[14:26] <rick_h_> heh
[14:26] <tjagoda> it gets better
[14:26] <tjagoda> That's only 2 cell phones
[14:27] <snap-l> blackberry makes a smart can-string phone?
[14:27] <tjagoda> shush your trolling
[14:27] <rick_h_> snap-l: they were going to, but R&D was a bit rich for their blood
[14:27] <snap-l> rick_h_: totally
[14:27] <snap-l> tjagoda: Hey, they can have 2 CEOs and 3 COOs, so anything is possible
[14:28] <rick_h_> ooh, new tagline? "We've got more bosses your you have!"
[14:28] <rick_h_> Powar!
[14:28] <tjagoda> http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/089/d/4/thats_Hitlerious_by_Anonymous206324351.jpg
[14:29] <rick_h_> we thought so :P
[14:31] <tjagoda> " IDC predicts 2015 will bring: Android 45.4%, WP7 & WinMobile 20.9%, iOS 15.3%, RIM 13.7%, Symbian 0.2%, and 'Others' 4.6%."
[14:31] <tjagoda> WinMo > iPhone?
[14:31] <tjagoda> seriously?
[14:32] <ColonelPanic001> lolz iphone
[14:32] <tjagoda> And look at RIM
[14:32] <tjagoda> still holding on by their teeth
[14:32] <ColonelPanic001> I do know that here at WSU, they're projecting Android hits overtaking iPhone anytime now. Might already have happened, haven't seen/heard stats lately
[14:33] <tjagoda> CRAZY SAUCE
[14:33] <tjagoda> WHY WOULD PEOPLE NOT WANT GLOWING FRUIT
[14:33] <rick_h_> US wide android is #1 in ad and in sales
[14:33] <ColonelPanic001> so much nicer to work with, too
[14:33] <rick_h_> because life is good if you have your iBalls connected to your iSack and you stream your iSphincter, 'it just works'
[14:34] <ColonelPanic001> iphone is a pain in the ass
[14:34] <ColonelPanic001> comparitively
[14:34] <tjagoda> RIM makes developers get notarized to prove identity =(
[14:35] <tjagoda> They're supposedly doing away with that as part of their barrier-reducing program though
[14:35] <greg-g> rick_h_: wow, were you channeling snap-l there?
[14:35] <greg-g> tjagoda: are you serious?
[14:35] <tjagoda> mhm
[14:36] <tjagoda> 's why AppWorld is so comparatively small
[14:36] <tjagoda> The profit margins in it are superior to all other mobile markets
[14:36] <rick_h_> sure, nothijng to do with the awful dev tools :P
[14:36] <tjagoda> but the barrier to developer entry with all the hoops is huge
[14:36] <rick_h_> declining user base, oh and that it's big in corporate which is more likely to lock the app purchases than others
[14:37] <tjagoda> Actually
[14:37] <tjagoda> when you're done asshatting
[14:37] <tjagoda> you'll see the numbers give developers great margins in AppWorld
[14:37] <tjagoda> and that they're by far the most profitable software sales

[14:37] <rick_h_> margins * sales == $$, margins != $$
[14:38] <rick_h_> so when you want to learn math correctly, we can continue :)
[14:38] <rick_h_> and dev time == part of costs which also come into play
[14:38] <ColonelPanic001> I was told there would be no math
[14:38] <rick_h_> which is why BB is usually the 3rd player for most big apps out there, not first
[14:39] <tjagoda> I refuse to argue with Android zealots whom openly admit their zealotry! =P
[14:39] <rick_h_> never said the "A" word in any of this
[14:40] <snap-l> I think Symbian would get an app sooner than BB
[14:40] <tjagoda> Woah
[14:40] <tjagoda> IBM is 100?
[14:40] <tjagoda> What did they do before computers?
[14:41] <rick_h_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computing_Tabulating_Recording_Corporation
[14:41] <snap-l> typewriters, calculators
[14:42] <tjagoda> +1 for snap-l for answering without making me read wikipedia
[14:44] <snap-l> tjagoda: You're just cranky that you can't marry your Blackberry at the mass ceremony at Penguicon
[14:44] <snap-l> Coup Fourre
[14:44] <tjagoda> Harr harr harr =P
[14:45] <rick_h_> because they're already married? :P
[14:54] <wolfger> Wow. I haven't heard "coup fourre" in years, and never outside of a game of Mille Bournes
[14:55] <snap-l> ;)
[14:57] <rick_h_> http://blog.nacode.com/2011/03/03/php-built-in-web-server/ missed this
[14:57] <rick_h_> so now all the poorly written apps won't even be put on real web servers any more
[14:57] <rick_h_> *sigh*
[14:58] <rick_h_> love that the wiki is down for maint now as well
[15:21] <snap-l> Please tell me this web server is written in PHP
[15:22] <snap-l> that would be so awesome
[15:23] <rick_h_> based on the linked gist seems to be c: https://gist.github.com/835698
[15:30] <ColonelPanic001> listening to the lococast about the music store stuff
[15:31] <rick_h_> heh, that goes on for a few of those
[15:31] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[15:33] <ColonelPanic001> snap-l: re: your twitter post - o'reilly sale?
[15:34] <snap-l> Long story
[15:34] <ColonelPanic001> heh, k
[15:34] <snap-l> Made a comment to JoDee about Groupon catering to women who didn't think before they purchased
[15:34] <snap-l> and got called out on the internet. :)
[15:35] <snap-l> JoDee is not like that, but still took offense
[15:35] <snap-l> "They have $40 of Bath and Bodyworks stuff for $10, but I already have enough soaps and such"
[15:36] <ColonelPanic001> I haven't read anything technical in a long time, need to pick up something from O'reilly or something
[15:40] <ColonelPanic001> "Beautiful Data" is ~$18 for the ebook, but I'm not quite ready for ebooks yet.
[15:40] <rick_h_> yea, and that book is only 1/3 good
[15:41] <ColonelPanic001> ah, you've read it? It sounded interesting, maybe. Worth reading?
[15:42] <rick_h_> there's a few good chapters, but the rest was meh
[15:42] <ColonelPanic001> noted. Thanks for mentioning it
[15:42] <rick_h_> it's in that style of each chapter is a different person/story
[16:06] <jrwren> anyone know of any program that will weave two log files and order them by date?
[16:07] <jrwren> e.g. my apahce access log and my python application log so I can see them interleaved by date.
[16:08] <ColonelPanic001> I think I did that with multiple apache logs before, but it was some perl script I wrote
[16:08] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea sec, I just was working on that the other day
[16:08] <rick_h_> it's in the awstats package I think
[16:08] <brousch> i did something like that with a python script
[16:09] <rick_h_> logresolvemerge.pl is in the awstats stuff
[16:09] <rick_h_> jrwren: see: http://wpstorm.net/2011/01/awstats-amazon-s3-cloudfront/
[16:10] <jrwren> ty
[16:10] <rick_h_> not finished setting it up yet, but that's where I'm headed
[16:11] <jrwren> rick_h_: is the man.
[16:11] <rick_h_> jrwren: what logs are you pulling?
[16:11] <rick_h_> ah, nvm, I see it, apache and app
[16:11] <rick_h_> the app log is apache format?
[16:11] <jrwren> apache combined access and then some pylons output log
[16:12] <rick_h_> ah, I think that merger will just interleave apache log files together
[16:12] <jrwren> no, the pylons output is really more like a console log
[16:12] <rick_h_> so I suck :(
[16:12] <jrwren> but with interleaved single line web style logs.
[16:12] <jrwren> so if it supports multiline log messages it should be great.
[16:12] <jrwren> if not, we will write something.
[16:13] <jrwren> question about git: can you really not push to a nonbare tree?
[16:13] <jrwren> with HG/BZR I push to nonbare all the time and all is well.
[16:14] <rick_h_> hmm, haven't tried, I think you'd have to pull
[16:14] <jrwren> that is what I experienced.
[16:14] <jrwren> i'm just very surprised.
[16:14] <rick_h_> because if there was a conflict you'd push that over to them?
[16:14] <jrwren> make the non-github workflow kind of shitty. you need a "server" somewhere that is bare.
[16:15] <rick_h_> or they could be working on it/etc
[16:15] <rick_h_> yea, we run a gitosis instance for it
[16:15] <rick_h_> pretty slick
[16:15] <jrwren> sure, THEN you can get an error and bzr/hg will give you that error, but if it is safe, it should be possible.
[16:15] <jrwren> but git just fails at this.
[16:15] <rick_h_> but yea, non-server you'd want the other repo to pull your stuff
[16:15] <rick_h_> right, but if they're mid-work/etc it seems strange
[16:15] <jrwren> cool, thanks rick_h_
[16:16] <ColonelPanic001> I hate when I accidently do ctrl+w + h to try and go to a window on the screen to the left.
[16:16] <jrwren> so how does heroku actually work then?
[16:16] <rick_h_> I think it comes down to Hg/bzr doing a diff dir per branch vs the stacked setup in git
[16:16] <jrwren> I always figured when you push to them you were pushing to the deployed tree.
[16:16] <jrwren> heroku must have a bare tree and have triggers that pull form that tree when you push to hte bare?
[16:16] <rick_h_> jrwren: I bet you push to a bare repo and it causes a post-push hook to fire to update the app
[16:17] <rick_h_> we use that to fire jenkins builds and such from the server
[16:17] <jrwren> rick_h_: high five!
[16:25] <snap-l> Just had a little power dip
[16:25] <snap-l> and thankfully my computer is now on a new UPS battery, so it was able to handle it.
[16:26] <rick_h_> awesome
[16:36] <binbrain> http://tinyurl.com/4vytobo interesting part about google culture beginning to discourage open source. why does this always seem to happen. 1) leverage open source 2) get big 3) enterprisy solutions replace open source 4) settle into corporate mediocrity
[16:37] <rick_h_> it's too much work to do OSS
[16:37] <jrwren> but in google's case (3) happened inside out instead of outside in.
[16:38] <brousch> no matter how much you open source the freetards whine its not enough. i assume you evenutally get tired of it
[16:38] <jrwren> i want to make a living writing software.
[16:38] <jrwren> its easier to do that by selling it v. supporting it.
[16:38] <brousch> you can't live on donated beer?
[16:39] <jrwren> I think part of the problem is the abusers and consumers of open source.
[16:39] <jrwren> those jerks who want to take stuff don't give back to upstream.
[16:40] <rick_h_> well, it's always a scale
[16:40] <jrwren> opensource v. opencore too.
[16:40] <rick_h_> there's 100x more 'uses' than 'contrib' people
[16:40] <jrwren> opennms founders have written about it a lot and very good opinions on the matter.
[16:41] <binbrain> jrwren: I have no problem with "jerks that take stuff and don't give back upstream". The more places the source makes it to the better
[16:42] <jrwren> why?
[16:42] <jrwren> why is more places better?
[16:43] <binbrain> so I realize that sometimes open source doesn't make sense for your business model, but abandoning open source which was a big part of helped make you successful, in favor of "robust" enterprise solutions seems to always be the bad move in my experience
[16:45] <wolfger> jrwren: what ColonelPanic001 said. :-)
[16:45] <wolfger> and what brousch said too.
[16:46] <binbrain> jrwren: why more places, because even if they don't contribute directly, they do indirectly, even if by accident, whether it be the extra mind share familiar with the source that decides to make a contrib 5 years later, or tells someone about this cool project, the more places the better
[16:48] <jrwren> wolfger: i don't see anything that ColonelPanic001 said in this conversation
[16:49] <jrwren> binbrain: i guess I just disagree with the more places the better.  e.g. my mom and dad are never going to contribute to chrome or firefox.
[16:49] <binbrain> huh, my Dad did
[16:50] <jrwren> amazing.
[16:50] <rick_h_> wow, boss just had me help get a quad extra large EC2 windows instance app up for something we're running that needs more than 64gb of ram :/
[16:50] <wolfger> jrwren: [11:08] <ColonelPanic001> I think I did that with multiple apache logs before, but it was some perl script I wrote
[16:50] <snap-l> I think part of the problem is when you let the MBAs into a company
[16:50] <snap-l> MBAs don't understand OSS
[16:50] <rick_h_> 8 core 68gb machine wow
[16:50] <wolfger> possibly you were completely done with that conversation. I was in scrollback
[16:50] <jrwren> MBAs don't understand much of anything.
[16:51] <jrwren> if we are going to generalize :)
[16:51] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm being charitable here
[16:51] <snap-l> I don't want an engineer doing my books
[16:51] <binbrain> jrwren: I don't mean directly obviously, but indirectly, when he calls for support, they tech has to know firefox now, which is more exposure, even if its a small little thing
[16:51] <snap-l> and I don't want an MBA doing my server room
[16:51] <jrwren> i don't want a server room, period.
[16:52] <snap-l> also, I'm reading this "Discourage of OSS" as dogfooding
[16:52] <binbrain> snap-l: ding ding ding, I blame the MBAs as well
[16:52] <snap-l> since they are google products, right?
[16:53] <rick_h_> it's the eternal debate, get devs on a common system to provide consistancy, reuse
[16:53] <rick_h_> or let people do best tool for the job
[16:53] <snap-l> jrwren: Everyone wants a server room
[16:54] <snap-l> they just want someone else to manage it
[16:54] <snap-l> my dear departed grandma wanted a server room, even though she didn't know anything about computers. :)
[16:55] <binbrain> anyhow, point not about oss vs proprietary, but about abandoning oss that made you successful in favor of closed enterprisy solutions, and snap-l nailed it, its those damn MBAs
[16:55] <rick_h_> well, it's not like hadoop was out there pre-google
[16:55] <rick_h_> I mean, it used google's freaking paper to come into the world
[16:55] <rick_h_> so it's not 100% fair, and open sourcing stuff you use it complicated and time consuming
[17:10] <jrwren> snap-l: I DO NOT WANT A SERVER ROOM!  NOR DO I WANT SOMEONE ELSE TO MANAGE IT
[17:10] <brousch> i agree
[17:10] <brousch> i want it all in the cloud
[17:11] <wolfger> ...
[17:11] <jrwren> so when you say its the MBAs are you really saying its capitalism?  its not a sustainable business model?
[17:11] <wolfger> and the cloud is not a server room, how?
[17:11] <jrwren> its not MY server rom.
[17:11] <jrwren> i want my shit in someone elses server room.
[17:11] <jrwren> i want it in google, msft, or amazons super efficient server room.
[17:11] <_stink_> that all caps line from jrwren should be /topiced.
[17:11] <wolfger> it is a server room. Somebody else manages it. Exactly what snap-l said.
[17:12] <jrwren> with their centralized AC/DC power conversion and DC servers and fanlesss evaporative cooling that runs at 95% efficiency
[17:12] <wolfger> You want it and you don't even know it.
[17:12] <jrwren> i don't want snap-l's weak ass 10% efficient server room.
[17:12] <wolfger> nobody said you did, that I noticed
[17:12] <jrwren> wolfger: you have a poor understanding of hte english language.
[17:12] <jrwren> i do not want it.
[17:13] <jrwren> i do not want someone else to manage it.
[17:13] <binbrain> jrwren: holy jump to conclusions mat. what does capitalism have to do with it. I think its as simple as the things they are taught in the MBA program, that complicated process is king for one
[17:13] <jrwren> i want my shit running somewehre.
[17:13] <jrwren> binbrain: so you are saying that a business run without MBA trained people but with good business sense would not make the same decisions?
[17:14] <jrwren> i want my shit running somewehre. I do not want it to be my server room.
[17:14] <jrwren> if someone wants a server room, they want to posess it.
[17:14] <jrwren> i don't want to posess a server room whether I manage it or not.  I just want a place to run my shit and hold my shit. and yes, my softwares and data are shitty.
[17:16] <binbrain> jrwren:  I favor KISS in almost all cases, but would a business run with out MBA come to the same conclusions, maybe, I don't know, I just know that MBAs are often taught complicated processes are NEEDED to make the wheels turn, let's take a look at ITIL for example http://www.service-culture.eu/bilder/chart-itil-v3-v1.9.jpg wtf is that
[17:18] <jrwren> that is like syaing that "software engineers are the problem because of SDLC or SEMA"
[17:19] <jrwren> when I was in college I learned dumb ass shitty SDLC stuff and UML bullshit. I'm not stupid and so I don't practice it now. I am sure that are MBAs in the world that are not stupid too.
[17:21]  * krondor looks at his ITIL certification on the wall and sighs...
[17:21] <binbrain> ahah, krondor, how did the ITIL stuff go for you?
[17:22] <krondor> it was boring and the exam was odd due to mostly the UK english they use.  It's like a complicated framework to tell people common sense things like you should have a help desk and the help desk should be customer focused not IT focused... etc..
[17:23] <binbrain> jrwren: of course there are good MBAs, I think one diff might be that MBAs often get hired specifically to muck with process, where as devs are less likely to
[17:23] <jrwren> less likely to much with business process or dev process or both?
[17:23] <binbrain> well, a dev isn't going to muck with business process, a MBA is typically charged to muck with every process
[17:24] <krondor> without things like ITIL what would the PHBs do if left to their own devices?  At least a framework lets them manage something and let the geeks go to work again.
[17:25] <jrwren> the more i dwell on it the more i am disgusted by the blame on MBAs when there is no evidence.
[17:25] <jrwren> poor bastards are just your punching bags.
[17:26] <binbrain> what would suffice as evidence besides experience and sentiment often shared amongst devs?
[17:27] <jrwren> evidence.
[17:27] <jrwren> sentiment is not evidence.
[17:27] <jrwren> point to a person and say 'this person decided this'
[17:27] <jrwren> corporations are surprisingly transparent. I'll bet you could find hte person in google who made the decision
[17:28] <binbrain> I'm sure that could be done in a some cases, and in others not, its not black and white
[17:28] <jrwren> blaming people without evidence is pretty black and white.
[17:30] <binbrain> I don't know if I blame the people here, I blamed "MBA" which is a degree had by people
[17:30] <binbrain> a subtle difference
[17:31] <jrwren> you blame the existence of a degree program for companies not continuing to embrace open source?
[17:32] <binbrain> this isn't an open source debate, its about abandoning open source that is apart of what made you successful just because its not enterprisy
[17:33] <binbrain> "existence" of the program? I don't think I said that either
[17:34] <binbrain> let's take out "open source'" from the talking point and lets just make it "abandoning what made you successful because it wasn't enterprisy"
[17:38] <binbrain> I'd say its less about the "existence" of the program, and more about what often seems to be the content of the program, you could certainly argue, and did, that the content of a CS program is mucked up in any cases as well
[17:38] <binbrain> a/any/many
[17:39] <jrwren> you've lost me.
[17:39] <jrwren> :)
[17:39] <jrwren> anytime you quit doing something that makes you successful its pretty stupid.
[17:41]  * wolfger leaps in to Godwin the conversation....
[17:41] <wolfger> Hitler was successful, but he definitely should have changed what he was doing. :-p
[17:42] <wolfger> but generally speaking, yes.
[17:49] <jrwren> hitler WAS successful... and then he wasn't, right?
[17:50] <jrwren> he should have changed what he was doing when he stopped succeeding.
[17:50] <jrwren> but he didn't, at least not soon enough, and then he killed himself.
[17:50] <wolfger> No. He should have changed what he was doing before then.
[17:50] <jrwren> i don't expect sergie and brin to kill themselves.
[17:50] <jrwren> should he?
[17:50] <jrwren> he united a fractured germany
[17:50] <wolfger> Change before you become unsuccessful, to remain successful.
[17:51] <jrwren> right.
[17:51] <snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/03/30/netflix-studios-and-the-primrose-path-to-apathy/
[17:51] <snap-l> Um, he blamed the Jews for all of the problems that the Germans had
[17:52] <wolfger> the point is, the key to continued success is knowing when to change.
[17:53] <binbrain> when in actuality, he should of blamed the MBAs ;) j/k
[17:53] <wolfger> binbrain ftw \o/
[17:54] <jrwren> *sigh* :)
[17:54] <snap-l> All I have to say is we've hit Hitler twice tday
[17:54] <snap-l> I think that's an achievement.
[17:55] <rick_h_> geeze, you guys have been busy
[17:55] <snap-l> http://skunkiebutt.com/pix/Motivational%20Posters/hitler%20achievement.jpg
[17:56] <wolfger> snap-l: good post!
[17:56] <snap-l> wolfger: Thank you. :)
[18:10] <jrwren> I'm not sure why google is getting grief from this anyway. they have always been a fair weather OSS company. Much of what they do has never been open source.
[18:11] <rick_h_> jrwren: they win over the free as in beer folks a lot
[18:12] <rick_h_> plus they do at least try to force some standards/etc
[18:12] <jrwren> right.
[18:12] <jrwren> yes, some.
[18:12] <jrwren> and others they just own :)
[18:12] <jrwren> but I'm a MSFT friendly person, so I can't knock google for that.
[18:12] <binbrain> summer of code
[18:12] <binbrain> etc...
[18:12] <jrwren> I just think a lot of OSS people have a misperception of google
[18:12] <rick_h_> yea, they have some wins, but they do more credit than they deserve just on the 'free' part I think
[18:13] <jrwren> rick_h_: high five!
[18:13] <jrwren> :)
[18:13] <rick_h_> and let's face it, of all the companies out there, they've built a rep as the hacker/dev super genius types
[18:13] <rick_h_> which more of us relate/aspire to
[18:14] <binbrain> the article I posted the dude was saying that recently open source usage internally was being discouraged just because it was open source
[18:15] <rick_h_> well, that article read more like "OSS is discouraged because it's not Google-way, Google's approved list of super scalable tools"
[18:15] <rick_h_> "hadoop, mongo isn't google scale, so don't bother starting there, go read up on bigtable"
[18:15] <snap-l> rick_h_: That's what I read as well
[18:15] <snap-l> Not that it was discouraged, just that Google had tools that they deemed superior
[18:16] <jrwren> which makes sense.
[18:17] <jrwren> google has huge proprietary infrastructure already built.
[18:17] <jrwren> why would you build on hadoop or mongo?
[18:18] <snap-l> Well, I think the poster's problem was that these were summarily discounted, even before they were considered
[18:18] <rick_h_> because it's a lower barrier to entry, more friendly to quick testing/innovating, and more easily put in the hands of users since anyone can fire up a mongo db with 5 shards on EC2 in minutes vs provisioning google services over the course of days/weeks/justification checks
[18:18] <snap-l> I could see someone saying that they needed rabbitmq for something, and make a case for it, rather than have someone else say "no rabbitmq, nohow no-way"
[18:18] <jrwren> google has ALWAYS sucked that way.
[18:19] <jrwren> if you work at google you can write in ONLY C/C++, Python, Java and javascript.
[18:19] <rick_h_> right, but the google way is a barrier to entry for new ideas in a fast paced tech circle
[18:19] <snap-l> It's like places that say "we will not deploy using [language] because someone had a bad experience with it at some point"
[18:19] <jrwren> want to use LISP or Ruby for something... too bad.
[18:19] <rick_h_> thus the brain drain to faster moving start ups
[18:19] <jrwren> have a place couchdb would work... too bad, that lang not allowed.
[18:19] <snap-l> Though I say that PHP should be actively discouraged. ;)
[18:19] <snap-l> and Java outright abolished. ;)
[18:20] <jrwren> google doesn't use PHP, period.
[18:20] <jrwren> um... java?
[18:20] <jrwren> google loves java.
[18:20] <snap-l> jrwren: No, I mean in general
[18:20] <jrwren> google is the biggest user of java in teh world.
[18:20] <snap-l> I think Sun might take with that assessment. ;)
[18:20] <snap-l> or IBM
[18:20] <jrwren> i don't.
[18:20] <jrwren> I still don't.
[18:20] <binbrain> I thought memory was the biggest user
[18:20] <jrwren> LOL
[18:21] <binbrain> bah, I'm done, back to work
[18:21] <snap-l> Oh, right, Sun was the biggest loser of Java, and IBM was the biggest abuser of Java.
[18:21] <snap-l> my mistake.
[18:21] <snap-l> carry on.
[18:48] <wolfger> Today's free song on Amazon MP3 is by Whitesnake.
[18:48] <wolfger> Are they still around?
[19:01] <snap-l> Yes, yes they are
[19:07] <wolfger> Hmph. They must be hanging out with Rush. ;-)
[19:08] <krondor> so why is everyone freaking out about Amazon Music Sync for Desktop and Android?  Hasn't Ubuntu One Music been doing that already?
[19:10] <wolfger> krondor: define "everyone"
[19:10] <krondor> everyone being news sites and record labels.
[19:10] <wolfger> ah, then the answer is simple
[19:10] <wolfger> Everyone knows all about Amazon, and nothing at all about Ubuntu One Music
[19:11] <krondor> I suppose, but even Dropbox has let you do that on Android and Desktop already (though I guess it isn't music specific).  I guess I don't see how it's different then what's already been done.  Maybe it's the free 5 GB and cheap yearly (20 a year for 20 GB?).
[19:13] <wolfger> I think it's more "iTunes and Google have been trying to reach licensing agreements with the labels, and Amazon said 'we don't need no stinking licenses'"
[19:13] <rick_h_> price, performance, multi-os (desktop at least), with web, and big name
[19:13] <wolfger> at least, those are the stories I'm reading today.
[19:14] <krondor> yeah but how has dropbox asked for licensing agreements?  I guess they're not really advertising; "This storage is for music".  Amazon is cheap though.  There's a promo too for free 20 GB / year with purchase of an album.  There's albums for 5 bucks.
[19:15] <rick_h_> amazon is letting you hit 'buy' and putting your files right over to your locker, and not counting it against your locker caps
[19:15] <rick_h_> dropbox isn't selling the music
[19:15] <krondor> rick_h_:  good point
[19:15] <rick_h_> and do they have a player, with playlist support, mobile streaming, etc?
[19:16] <krondor> ubuntu one music yes, dropbox no.
[19:17] <rick_h_> right, so forget the dropbox comparison then, and we can stick with "U1 has been doing this"
[19:17] <rick_h_> but only for ubuntu users, using rhythmbox, etc
[19:17] <krondor> I guess it is all about being known, Ubuntu wasn't known enough to cause the stir?  Or they didn't have a free mobile plan so no hype?  Maybe they dodged a lawsuit best case I suppose...
[19:17] <rick_h_> and priced a bit more for the mobile aspect/etc
[19:17] <rick_h_> well, also depends on the deals that 7digital has/etc
[19:18] <rick_h_> but yea, I think we've all seen the little guys get away with it, until they get too much attentino
[19:18] <krondor> napster being the best example maybe
[19:19] <wolfger> U1 Music is Aunt Mildred to Amazon's Paris Hilton
[19:20] <wolfger> whatever your Aunt Mildred does, it will not make the news, but if Paris Hilton does the same thing: BAM! Instant headline.
[19:21] <brousch> ubuntu is like 1% of desktop computers, and a fraction of them use U1. amazon is everywhere
[19:25] <krondor> you don't have to have Ubuntu to use Ubuntu Music of course
[19:25] <krondor> but still mindshare, pricing, etc.. point to amazon
[19:26] <snap-l> Honestly, I don't see the big probem
[19:27] <snap-l> if I upload my mp3 collection onto a website, and use a player that only I have access to, then who is harmed?
[19:27] <snap-l> Artist? Nope. Label? Nope.
[19:27] <snap-l> Nobody gets access to the music outside of me
[19:27] <snap-l> If I made a tape of an album to leave in my car, did the artist lose a sale? Nope.
[19:28] <krondor> I'm done trying to figure out why the RIAA hates their customers
[19:28] <snap-l> Just means I don't have to figure out how to get my record player to work in my car.
[19:28] <snap-l> krondor: Because they're having a shit time of it
[19:28] <snap-l> Record sales are down
[19:29] <snap-l> And the biggest reason? Inflation of CD prices
[19:29] <wolfger> snap-l: Pirate!!!!!
[19:29] <snap-l> < $10 is impulse buy territory, >$15 is ask the wife for permission
[19:29] <wolfger> You should buy a tape *and* an album if you want to listen in your car and at home
[19:30] <wolfger> also, you're dating yourself with the entire concept of taping an album :-p
[19:30] <snap-l> wolfger: Right, the buggy whip corporations would like a word with you
[19:30] <snap-l> Also, has anyone wonered why SACD hasn't taken off like gangbusters?
[19:30] <snap-l> hint: it's not the quality that counts
[19:30] <wolfger> wtf is SACD?
[19:30] <snap-l> hint: You can't easily rip a SACD.
[19:31] <snap-l> wolfger: And you've made my point. ;)
[19:31] <krondor> portability > fidelity
[19:31] <snap-l> SACD is 5.1 audio with 96Kbps resolution
[19:31] <snap-l> 24 bit encoding
[19:31] <snap-l> It's akin to DVD-Audio, but includes a CD layer for backward compatibility.
[19:32] <wolfger> ...and the point is?
[19:32] <snap-l> problem is the SACD layer is unreadable with current computer tech
[19:32] <snap-l> at least unreadable without some major hacking
[19:32] <wolfger> triple that question, in that case
[19:32] <krondor> snap-l:  also probably hasn't caught on because Sony was involved in the format :P
[19:32] <wolfger> ha!
[19:32] <snap-l> krondor: Sony was involved witht eh original CD
[19:32] <snap-l> so I don't buy that argument much
[19:33] <wolfger> That's unfair, Krondor
[19:33] <wolfger> Blu-Ray won, after all
[19:33] <snap-l> In my perfect world, they'd just give you a disc with FLAC files on it
[19:33] <snap-l> wolfger: And we see how bluray is just leaping off of the shelves
[19:33] <wolfger> snap-l: but it beat HD-DVD out of the marketplace
[19:33] <snap-l> but the other point I have is that it's cheaper to buy the DVD of a concert than it is to buy the CD of the concert
[19:34] <krondor> snap-l:  but how many recording studios are even recording in good 24 bit and not just 16 bit even (I have no clue maybe they are, honest question)
[19:34] <snap-l> wolfger: That wasn't too harrd.
[19:34] <wolfger> it will catch on, eventually
[19:34] <snap-l> krondor: It's more prevalent than you might think
[19:34] <snap-l> all studios are using 48KHz, 96Kbps, 24 bit recordings
[19:34] <snap-l> they have to mix down to CD format
[19:34] <jrwren> because amazon is far more big than ubuntu.
[19:35] <wolfger> <insert snarky comment about jrwren's coming to he conversation late here>
[19:35] <snap-l> Lets just say that this is a fight that I'm confident Amazon will win
[19:35] <jrwren> wolfger: you didn't hear about my Aunt Mildred's sex tape?
[19:36] <snap-l> and if they don't, the RIAA can chew a bucket of cocks
[19:36] <snap-l> jrwren actually reads backlog.
[19:36] <snap-l> I'm impressed
[19:36] <snap-l> which means that in 10 minutes, he'll make a snarky comment to me. ;)
[19:37] <wolfger> Woooo. I just "qualified" for a free subscription to eWeek magazine. <mark-as-spam>
[19:37] <snap-l> Information Week here
[19:37] <snap-l> I swear, they could just chain together the blatherings of babies, and still call it eWeek
[19:38] <wolfger> they don't?
[19:38] <snap-l> I think they still have freelancers
[19:38] <snap-l> but I think the freelancers employ their kids to bang on the keyboard.
[19:38] <krondor> parody site idea; eWeak.com  One domain camper away from reality.
[19:38] <wolfger> LOL
[19:39] <wolfger> check it. It might already exist.
[19:39] <snap-l> "something something cloud something google something"
[19:39] <krondor> it does w/ a domain camper, expire dec 27. 2011
[19:39] <greg-g> man, chatty cathys today
[19:39] <jrwren> the problem with being an addict is that i can't tell if hte headache is from overdosing or withdrawl
[19:39] <greg-g> jrwren++ I hate that uncertainty!
[19:40] <wolfger> jrwren: You need tiger blood.
[19:42] <wolfger> Wow. That killed the conversation.
[19:42] <snap-l> heh
[19:43] <wolfger> Is Charlie Sheen the new Hitler? We've discussed Hitler multiple times today without killing the convo.
[19:43] <wolfger> Quick! Amend Godwin's law.
[19:48] <snap-l> http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Virtualization/Virtual-Desktop-Infrastructure-Takes-Off-10-of-the-Hottest-Players-772016/?kc=EWKMRS03282011CA
[19:48] <snap-l> Seriously, just put a bullet in eWeek
[19:50] <rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAyUNI3_V2c
[19:50] <rick_h_> google at it again
[19:51] <snap-l> fuckin' hell
[19:52] <rick_h_> no, dare you to block google at the firewall like facebook :P
[19:52] <snap-l> I can see this getting totally abused
[19:52] <snap-l> *sigh*
[19:54] <snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/68632077
[19:57]  * krondor Krondor +1'd This!
[20:06] <greg-g> wow, +1
[20:34] <greg-g> (that was meant to be in reference to +1, not actually a +1 of +1, heh)
[20:34] <greg-g> I sure effing hope that was their test object to +1, the +1
[20:35] <greg-g> I mean, if I were on the team, that'd be my only requirement
[20:35] <brousch> greg-g: how's the rsvps for global jam looking? i have me and one other so far
[20:36] <greg-g> brousch: in your car? cool!
[20:36] <greg-g> looks like 11 confirmed with 8 maybes, awesome
[20:37] <greg-g> there will be extras i'm sure, so that's a good turn out!
[20:37]  * greg-g is excited!
[20:37] <brousch> ok, i'm going to pick up a few good beers tonight
[20:38] <greg-g> yay, good beer!
[20:46] <greg-g> whoa, alienseer was here?
[20:46] <greg-g> never seen him here anymore
[21:13] <n0p> never see me anymore either, phew
[21:14] <greg-g> n0p: there you are!
[21:14] <greg-g> come to the UGJ at SRT on Sunday!
[21:15] <n0p> hmm, will be downtown with the kids for festivfools
[21:15] <n0p> what time is the UGJ
[21:15] <greg-g> 3pm-??
[21:16] <greg-g> erm, I'm sorry, 12pm - ???
[21:16] <greg-g> and at the ??? time we'll be going out for drinks, most likely
[21:17] <n0p> cool, well, as mentioned, family time, but perhaps i can at least come by and say hey
[21:18] <greg-g> yeah, definitely. Enjoy festifools craziness.
[21:18] <n0p> oh, and ice skating at yost from noon-2 with kids, sheesh, busy schedule
[21:26] <snap-l> hey n0p, long time no see
[21:27] <n0p> yeah, i gotta make a CHC someday again
[21:30] <n0p> been pretty busy still, but feels like i'm getting on track
[21:32] <n0p> snap-l: are you BronxZoosCobra ;-)
[21:50] <snap-l> ?
[21:54] <n0p> oh, you havent heard the snake story?
[21:54] <n0p> some cobra is missing from the Bronx zoo
[21:55] <n0p> someone created a twitter account and has been tweeting, it's pretty funny
[21:55] <snap-l> heh
[21:55] <n0p> made me think of you actually
[21:55] <n0p> http://twitter.com/BronxZoosCobra
[21:57] <snap-l> Not sure whether to be flattered or what. ;)
[21:58] <n0p> well, not the snake aspect, just the wit ;-)
[22:02] <greg-g> wait! Is that why White Snake was the free Amazon mp3 for today?
[22:02] <n0p> haha, perhaps
[22:02]  * greg-g puts various parts of IRC log in his head and creates connections where there shouldn't be
[22:05] <snap-l> brb, power out
[22:51] <snap-l> back
[22:51] <snap-l> Hopefully this will take care of the power outages overnight
[22:51] <snap-l> If not, out come the big guns. :)
[23:00] <binbrain> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:NoJavaScript
[23:00] <binbrain> lol
[23:01] <binbrain> I'm not a fan of js, but these guys are nuts
[23:05] <Blazeix> hm, that @source isn't a bad idea though
[23:17] <binbrain> opps, need to update a small innocent looking latex package, 1G and 125 new deps later...
[23:39] <_stink_> hah
[23:39] <_stink_> latex is great for that.
[23:40] <greg-g> binbrain: well, its mattl, who is a tad crazy
[23:40] <greg-g> re: NoJavaScript
[23:44] <wolfger> Yo, snap-l. Awesome instrumentalcast. Finally getting around to listening to it.
[23:44] <snap-l> Thank you. :)
[23:45] <snap-l> I'm uploading another episode, an industrial episode.
[23:45] <snap-l> Should be out Friday.
[23:46] <rick_h_> binbrain: heh, oh well, don't like my app don't use it
[23:46] <binbrain> greg-g: what's a tad crazy exactly :) it's not horrible to hope js DIAF, but the effort to eradicate it 1 js disable at a time, hmmm
[23:46] <binbrain> rick_h_: huh, what's your app?
[23:47] <rick_h_> binbrain: sorry, any of my apps
[23:48] <rick_h_> though my app will be bookie
[23:48] <rick_h_> http://bmark.us
[23:48] <rick_h_> no real js yet though
[23:48] <binbrain> better hope your apps don't end up as the next target for libreplanet rick_h_
[23:48] <wolfger> ok, wtf is this track? Sound more like Gary Wright than metal
[23:50] <rick_h_> ok CHC people get here to help hold space pls
[23:50] <rick_h_> getting busy here tonight all of a sudden, ugh
[23:51] <snap-l> I'm on my way.