[03:08] <cprofitt> Pendulum: ping
[16:06] <hajour> hai all
[16:08] <hajour> i go tomorrow begin a petition  against the inaccessible internet programs from the netherlands government.on European lvl
[16:08] <hajour> i go try to get so much i can assigners and then to denhaag to offer them
[16:10] <hajour> so they get more pressure to improve there system a lot and that they go make it accessible for people whit health issues
[16:10] <hajour> so all people can use it
[16:11] <hajour> i have enough of it.it costed me a year they offered help.but why this way.if they had just a app in so it can enlarge fonts /colour and audio.then i not had needed that help
[16:12] <hajour> so i stop complaining and go do something about it
[16:12] <hajour> i want try to make the petition accessible to for everyone
[16:13] <hajour> i would appreciate to get some help whit the last part
[16:14]  * hajour have put here safety jacket on to go for it
[16:19] <hajour> duanedesign,  if i remember correct you make also video/audio. things like that.
[16:20] <hajour> well i need to eat now. but i am back in about 3 and half hours again.need to eat and care for the kids also
[16:20] <hajour> o and also maco you know more from deaf 
[16:21] <hajour> and i hope that changes not only go in netherland but in whole europe and maybe more
[16:22] <hajour> must make somewhere a start thought
[16:24] <hajour> till later
[16:33] <hajour> and if they go say that accessibility is to expensive i go say them to just look at the open source programs instead to only window programs
[16:45] <AlanBell> http://blip.tv/file/4958226
[16:46] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: ^^
[16:47] <hajour> its not loading AlanBell :(
[16:47] <hajour> your link
[16:48] <AlanBell> I think it is OK
[16:49] <hajour> ok i go try again
[16:50] <hajour> loaded but i see a black square is that how it need to be AlanBell ?
[16:50] <AlanBell> I know various things don't work on your computer, I think this works on Ubuntu with Flash generally
[16:51] <hajour> i got flash
[16:51] <AlanBell> do other videos on blip.tv generally work for you?
[16:51] <Pendulum> it worked okay on mine (at least for as long as I had it open, but I stopped it pretty quickly)
[16:51] <hajour> but AlanBell  are there more light weight programs on ubuntu?
[16:51] <hajour> youtube works
[16:51] <charlie-tca> jI k
[16:51] <hajour> by me
[16:51] <charlie-tca> I like that
[16:52] <hajour> XD i really need to eat honest say.but i get so much ideas on the moment
[16:53] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: the fallback fails in virtualbox completely at this time
[16:54] <charlie-tca> Can you do that again after we get good procedures written?
[16:54] <hajour> so its not something i only have i not see something?
[16:54] <hajour> or only by me
[16:55] <charlie-tca> It is kind of an ugly way to have to do things right now. I wish they would just give us classic-gnome sessions already for accessibility
[16:56] <charlie-tca> hajour: it worked here
[16:56] <AlanBell> hajour: I think it works on a full size computer, but a netbook with little ram is going to struggle with video
[16:56] <AlanBell> and if you are not running Ubuntu then I don't know what bits are missing from xubuntu that might be a problem
[16:56] <hajour> mm
[16:56] <charlie-tca> I keep getting told everything is working, but everytime I or anyone else tries to do these installs they fail bad
[16:57] <hajour> i go ask or UndiFineD  want to look by me /notebook.to see or we can see something
[16:57] <AlanBell> yeah, happy to try it again
[16:58] <charlie-tca> I don't think hajour runs xubuntu either, it is Lubuntu, isn't it?
[16:58] <hajour> btw have you all see what i have wrote earlier?
[16:58] <hajour> i got lubuntu
[16:58] <charlie-tca> and Lubuntu is missing a lot to get everything to just work
[16:58] <AlanBell> I don't even know what that is
[16:58] <charlie-tca> Lxde environment, with absolute minimum items installed by default
[16:59] <AlanBell> oh yes, xubuntu is xfce isn't it
[16:59] <AlanBell> I had the two confused
[16:59] <charlie-tca> Uses less ram than Xubuntu, but doesn't really work good out of the box
[16:59] <charlie-tca> yup, Xubuntu is Xfce
[16:59] <charlie-tca> But Xubuntu pulls in a few gnome and gtk dependencies to keep everything working
[17:02] <hajour> i have been called diner is ready really need to go now
[17:02] <hajour> till later i read later back
[17:06] <AlanBell> I think the accessible installer should be taken over by the server team, not the desktop team
[17:07] <AlanBell> give them the use-case of server+headphones+keyboard+power+CD and tell them to make it happen
[17:08] <charlie-tca> cjwatson would like someone to help out with accessibility in the installer, too
[17:09] <charlie-tca> I don't progr
[17:09] <charlie-tca> program, which makes it difficult.
[17:09] <charlie-tca> Problem with server team d
[17:09] <charlie-tca> doing it is the server doesn't use the GUI
[17:10] <charlie-tca> I have issues with the backspace on this keyboard yet
[17:34] <UndiFineD> charlie-tca, as I maintian hajour her laptop half the time, it does have almost everything essential for gnome
[17:34] <UndiFineD> it can run ubuntu 10.10, but the system is then slowed to half
[17:35] <UndiFineD> having lxde as the wm makes it that much agile
[21:13] <pleia2> AlanBell: thanks for your reply re: 739812
[21:14]  * pleia2 has been seeing more and more tablets creep into installfests
[22:37] <AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/739812
[22:37] <AlanBell> last comment is worthy of discussion
[22:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Critical,Confirmed]
[22:38] <charlie-tca> I saw it
[22:38] <charlie-tca> no fallback in Oneiric?
[22:38] <AlanBell> We made very good progress on a11y in Natty, but will miss the goal of perfect a11y. We'll nail it in Oneiric. That's OK, because we have the Classic desktop fallback in Natty, but will not in Oneiric.
[22:39] <hajour>  pleia maybe stupid question but what is creep into installfests ?
[22:39] <AlanBell> yeah, several things to disucuss on that
[22:39] <pleia2> hajour: creep into installfests?
[22:40] <hajour> pleia2 has been seeing more and more tablets creep into installfests
[22:40] <AlanBell> so, missing the goal of perfect a11y, well we kind of knew that already
[22:40] <pleia2> hajour: oh, people bringing them to installfests
[22:40] <hajour> tabets i know what that are
[22:40] <hajour> is installfest a program ?
[22:41] <hajour> tablets i mean
[22:41] <pleia2> an installfest is an event where people come to get something installed on their computer
[22:41] <pleia2> so we have ubuntu installfests where people bring their computers (and laptops and tablets) to get help installing ubuntu
[22:41] <hajour> a soemthing like a sort of lan party?
[22:41] <hajour> something i mean
[22:42] <hajour> or more like a helpdesk
[22:42] <pleia2> hajour: here are some photos from one we had last year: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/sets/72157624183677592/
[22:43] <pleia2> people just bring in computers, ask people with ubuntu shirts for help :)
[22:43] <AlanBell> so what do you think charlie-tca?
[22:43] <AlanBell> I think the bug would be correctly classified as high rather than critical
[22:44] <hajour> that sounds more like sort of help desk if i am right
[22:44] <AlanBell> but I think this raises a number of other concerns
[22:45] <charlie-tca> It would be, but it used to use "affects a small group but it completely unusable for them" as critical
[22:45] <charlie-tca> I have to look when that got changed. There was 3 or 4 items under critical in the past.
[22:45] <charlie-tca> Of cousrse they missed perfect a11y, they ignore us as much as possible uint
[22:46] <charlie-tca> until the last month to 6 weeks, and expect it to work?
[22:46] <charlie-tca> Luke said a while back he didn't 
[22:46] <AlanBell> yes, I agree
[22:46] <hajour> o btw i use firefox now.because whot all kind of combinations chromium stayed give screenfreeze whit many pics or grey squares
[22:46] <charlie-tca> know how much he could do alone on it, even working for Canonical
[22:47] <hajour> whot=with
[22:47] <charlie-tca> chromium has been giving a lot of people issues lately.
[22:47] <charlie-tca> It doesn't seem as smooth as it was for a while
[22:47] <hajour> i discovered that if i use the cames on facebook whit upload it gives same results like for using bank system almost all banks use in netherlands
[22:48] <hajour> for internet banking
[22:48] <hajour> with uploading from bank the screen freeze
[22:48] <charlie-tca> I think we did our best with accessibility in Natty, and we can do even better in Oneiric. We got further in this release than ever before, thanks to all the push from people like Jono and jcastro and Penelope
[22:48] <hajour> same whit games on face book
[22:49] <hajour> but whit firefox boths work good
[22:49] <hajour> but i found testing whit bank a bit risky
[22:49] <hajour> so i used games from facebook instead
[22:50] <hajour> after it worked good whitt games i tryed it out whot banking
[22:50] <hajour> with
[22:50] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: I am very thankful that jono spent so much time with us this cycle. 
[22:50] <AlanBell> yeah, generally I think things are going in a reasonable direction
[22:51] <hajour> and then it also worked good whit the bank system and whit the program from btw from government progra,
[22:51] <hajour> jus to let you all know
[22:51] <jono> thanks charlie-tca
[22:51] <hajour> i not only for playing games there you now
[22:51] <jono> I didn't do all that much - you folks did the hard work :-)
[22:51] <hajour> but was saver way for test
[22:52] <AlanBell> jono: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/739812/comments/5
[22:52] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Critical,Confirmed]
[22:52] <hajour> o hi jono sorry not new you wsa around jono
[22:52] <charlie-tca> jono: Your advice and assistance keep things going in the right direction, sometimes.
[22:52] <hajour> i not can read and write at the same time
[22:52] <charlie-tca> At least mark did not close it or drop us down to wishlist on the bug.
[22:52] <AlanBell> o/ popey 
[22:53] <charlie-tca> hajour: I am glad you found to test it.
[22:53] <charlie-tca> jono just sits back and watches things sometimes. 
[22:53] <charlie-tca> it keeps him informed that way.
[22:53] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: I think we should drop it down to high (I can't), and leave a suitable comment
[22:54] <AlanBell> I am not sure what that suitable comment should be
[22:54] <charlie-tca> All right, until I find what happened to the importance page and fix it.
[22:55] <hajour> but i think it is something whit the conection from like flash to chromium
[22:55] <hajour> what causes the problem
[22:55] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: I see no recent changes to critical https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance?action=info
[22:56] <AlanBell> critical is "the CD doesn't boot" kind of issues
[22:56] <hajour> like there is going some wrong like mm send a postmen to wrong adress  by sort of speaking
[22:56] <AlanBell> with this one you can't type in one field, but you can use the mouse to browse and click the same stuff
[22:57] <hajour> uhm tolet you know if this happens whit the chromium browser to sites payments offices are not very want to gonna use that
[22:58] <hajour> go use it i mean
[22:58] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: three years of bug triage, lots of things change :-)
[22:58] <hajour> yes that also happens whit chromium what AlanBell  said
[22:59] <hajour> also no loading to slow
[22:59] <hajour> because of that screen freeze
[22:59] <hajour> btw not only by my nnotebook
[22:59] <hajour> also with my kids pc s who uses ubuntu
[23:00] <charlie-tca> done, AlanBell 
[23:01] <hajour> also in learning programs also many pics are used
[23:01] <hajour> so also by learning programs its not useble
[23:01] <hajour> for kids whit learn problems
[23:01] <hajour> sorry if i disturb a lot
[23:02] <hajour> but i really need to sleep honest say
[23:02] <hajour> but wanted to let you all know
[23:02] <charlie-tca> You are doing fine. We just don't always respond so quick.
[23:02] <hajour> what i have experienced till now
[23:03] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: If I knew of more than one "straw" user, I could push for the large group of accessibility users. :-)
[23:03] <hajour> also i already have a meeting next sunday i have gathered people from sii/wintermute /speechcontrol and trying to pull some adults to from ubuntu youth for to gather momeny for to get 1 for jacky
[23:04] <hajour> because he his now is really broken
[23:04] <hajour> he also thit a lot for launchpad jacky
[23:04] <AlanBell> thanks charlie-tca, good comment
[23:05] <hajour> money or a other pc sec hand new do not matter
[23:05] <charlie-tca> Got to keep trying, right? and it won't help to piss Mark off at us now. We got a roll going
[23:05] <charlie-tca> hajour: what happened to jacky's computer?
[23:05] <hajour> motherboard
[23:05] <charlie-tca> ouch
[23:06] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: exactly, I think reducing the status made that comment stronger
[23:06] <maco> AlanBell: does a bug importance need to be changed?
[23:06] <hajour> a moth ago his laptop felt but it was already not rreally good before its old
[23:06] <charlie-tca> maco: can you change unity upstream importance?
[23:06] <hajour> after that everytime more broke
[23:06] <maco> oh, no. i thought yall meant an ubuntu/<package> one
[23:06] <charlie-tca> no, I did that one
[23:06] <maco> ohok
[23:07] <maco> (sorry, i dont know who all has bug control access)
[23:07] <charlie-tca> hajour: sorry to hear that. I just got a laptop for myself from my son-in-law when he got a new one.
[23:07] <hajour> but last time he game on ubuntu on his girlfriends pc and told his laptop now really died
[23:08] <AlanBell> maco: charlie-tca just did, see the last few comments on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/739812
[23:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Critical,Confirmed]
[23:08] <hajour> soi thougt all will it be only 1 penny many penny s make together a lot
[23:08] <maco> AlanBell: he just said that
[23:08] <charlie-tca> hajour: that is correct. That is how things get done, after all.
[23:09] <hajour> Jacky just passed exam for get a scholarship for college or university for very bright kids for pc edusaction
[23:09] <hajour> but whit out laptop
[23:09] <hajour> his study will come in danger to
[23:10] <hajour> so heads together differences put aside for to help jacky
[23:11] <hajour> no arguments or dev discussions allowed only talk for help jacky 
[23:11] <hajour> next sunday
[23:11] <hajour> but i not dared to go in sii channel i was afraid i would say something wrong
[23:12] <hajour> what would ruin all
[23:12] <hajour> so i have asked michealh to do for ask
[23:12] <hajour> and wintermute agreed and sii or how it is called
[23:13] <hajour> only hope some from ubuntu youth also want to help 
[23:13] <hajour> for to help Jacky
[23:13] <hajour> i know also some adults are there
[23:14] <hajour> they go be angry if they discover i still not been go to sleep D
[23:14] <hajour> :D
[23:15] <hajour> so charlie-tca  you think i did right to let michealh to ask?
[23:16] <hajour> just was really afraid to break
[23:16] <hajour> all trough my fault
[23:17] <hajour> by making mistakes whit read or write wrong misunderstanding
[23:17] <charlie-tca> hajour: Oh, yes. Sometimes it is really good to let others do the asking.
[23:18] <hajour> and help jacky is really important
[23:18] <charlie-tca> Yes, it is. You are learning!
[23:19] <hajour> not want someting go wrong whit that
[23:20] <hajour>  if i get sponsoring i hope i not do not something wrong there
[23:20] <hajour> -not
[23:20] <charlie-tca> it happens. I know
[23:21] <charlie-tca> I have been in that situation before. It is not fun.
[23:21] <hajour> i not may make mistakes
[23:21] <charlie-tca> We all make mistakes sometimes.
[23:21] <hajour> but not there
[23:24] <hajour> i had with exam on highschool totally block.i almost failed because of that.but i need to confront fear and step over it
[23:24] <hajour> i normally was really very good whit speaking exam
[23:24] <hajour> and there came no word out of me that moment
[23:25] <charlie-tca> I make mistakes. It is very hard to get everyone to work together without making some people upset.
[23:25] <hajour> im afraid to fail
[23:27] <hajour> btw i right that good?
[23:27] <hajour> is fail like not doing good
[23:27] <charlie-tca> That makes it much harder to keep going sometimes.
[23:27] <charlie-tca> fail is to not be able to do what you tried.
[23:28] <hajour> ?
[23:28] <charlie-tca> mistake is to do someti
[23:28] <charlie-tca> mistake is doing what you think is right, and then find out it is wrong.
[23:28] <hajour> ok
[23:28] <charlie-tca> fail is trying to do something and find you can not do it
[23:28] <hajour> just nerves
[23:29] <charlie-tca> I am failing at typing good with this keyboard. My sentences keep getting cut up.
[23:29] <hajour> o yes
[23:29] <charlie-tca> I made a mistake typng this.
[23:29] <hajour> how it works
[23:29] <hajour> your new keyboard
[23:30] <charlie-tca> but I might be able to fix the failing typing, if I keep trying.
[23:30] <hajour> i have stayed i not have quite
[23:31] <hajour> no not good wrote that
[23:32] <hajour> i have not stopped with speechcontrol
[23:32] <charlie-tca> I type really bad if I get angry. Then I can't spell at all, and even forget words.
[23:32] <hajour> ye know all about that
[23:33] <hajour> i have that whitout being angry all the time whitout spelling program
[23:34] <hajour> they want  now i go official test me for dislectie.my helper says is for show because it is very clear i have dislectie she said
[23:34] <charlie-tca> me too! but it gets much worse when I get upset.
[23:34] <hajour> for get proof from it
[23:35] <hajour> so if i get a job in about 4 till 7 years .i get the proper adjustments for do work
[23:36] <hajour> because need proof from written oon paper
[23:36] <hajour> i said i not want wait 4 till 7 years
[23:36] <hajour> btw i have work here
[23:37] <charlie-tca> Yes, you have to have the proper tests for proof
[23:37] <hajour> only makes it hard i not get any money from nothing at all.because i never have worked i not have rights on nothing.and undifined only get wel fair in about a few weeks because he lost his job
[23:39] <hajour> only reason still i want put this trough to get a payed job to make pressure very less for undifined he then will be not so very worrying all the time
[23:39] <charlie-tca> yes, that would be very good for both of you.
[23:39] <hajour> because i really like doing tasks here and helping
[23:40] <hajour> feeling useful again
[23:40] <charlie-tca> You don't have temporary work places there? 
[23:40] <charlie-tca> We have places that will hire you for a few hours at a time in America.
[23:40] <hajour> yes and that is where i come on waithing list for
[23:40] <charlie-tca> You have to go everyday, but sometimes, it works good.
[23:40] <hajour> waithing list 4 till 7 year
[23:41] <charlie-tca> ouch!
[23:41] <charlie-tca> That is too long for that
[23:41] <hajour> and that is if it go s goodbecause instance said it probarly will go 10 years
[23:42] <hajour> but i already am at home for 19 years
[23:42] <hajour> i not want wait again 10 years
[23:42] <hajour> its not fair
[23:42] <charlie-tca> I could agree with that. That is a very long time to wait
[23:43] <hajour> i mean i also have rights on work thought
[23:45] <hajour> really if i ever start a business i go hire at least half people who are heave a health issues
[23:46] <hajour> half people i can hire 
[23:46] <hajour> bah
[23:46] <hajour> sec translate
[23:46] <charlie-tca> yup
[23:48] <hajour> I'm sure that at least n. half of the people are people whit issuesso they also get a change
[23:48] <hajour> and not like government do
[23:48] <hajour> give them very less payed then rest of the people there who do the same work
[23:49] <charlie-tca> Everybody needs a little start at some time
[23:49] <hajour> no here it is go like this
[23:49] <hajour> they hire people
[23:49] <hajour> get exstra money for to do that
[23:49] <hajour> even if they can do the same like the rest
[23:50] <hajour> they get by example someone with issues 895,00 euro  a month
[23:51] <hajour> and person who is healthy who do the same work get like by example 1895,00 euro a month
[23:51] <hajour> so person whit issues still need to go to well fair to be able to pay the bills
[23:52] <charlie-tca> wow! That is quite a difference.
[23:52] <hajour> and then after 2 years they find a exuse
[23:52] <hajour> to get rid of the person
[23:52] <hajour> because after 2 years they need to give a steady place
[23:52] <charlie-tca> So they still are behind in the hir
[23:52] <hajour> they not want that
[23:52] <charlie-tca> hiring and putting to work the disabled
[23:53] <charlie-tca> Although, I think it is not too different here. They try to keep the disabled down in the lowest paying jobs.
[23:53] <hajour> persons whit issues get disapointment on ddisapointment and getting depressed
[23:53] <hajour> and very low self image
[23:54] <charlie-tca> yes
[23:54] <hajour> and go feel they cant do nothing
[23:55] <charlie-tca> yup
[23:55] <charlie-tca> and it makes it harder to keep going looking for work, too.
[23:56] <hajour> also government claimes they care for adjustments.but by example special pc programs for people whit issues it takes often more then a year it is been arranged.more often even 2 years
[23:56] <hajour> yes
[23:57] <hajour> that also count for by example a special chair of desk
[23:57] <hajour> because even you been bu many doctors
[23:58] <hajour> government says they not believe
[23:58] <hajour> so government let test you like a labrat
[23:58] <hajour> again by doctors from government
[23:59] <hajour> but they often not have knowledge from the issues from the patient
[23:59] <hajour> because only the specialist knows
[23:59] <charlie-tca> I think they do that everywhere. Here I am disabled by the military Veterans Hospital, but not by other areas of the government. I have to allow all the tests again for another government office to say yes for them.