[00:23] <pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/746111
[00:23] <pleia2> should I just s/192/256 on the site?
[00:23] <pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/getubuntu
[00:24] <knome> s/256/512/ s/192/256/ s/128/192/
[00:24] <pleia2> sounds good to me
[00:24] <knome> let's go for that for now, and rethink that after natty
[00:24] <pleia2> ok
[00:24] <knome> imo
[00:25] <knome> we probably need to rethink most of the texts in the website anyway with the new site, so this can wait for that as well
[00:26]  * pleia2 nods
[00:28] <pleia2> ok, updated the ticket so we know what the original text was, and fix committed
[00:28] <pleia2> thanks knome :)
[00:28] <knome> no problem
[00:28] <pleia2> s/committed/released!
[00:29] <knome> hihi
[00:33] <knome> pleia2, btw
[00:33] <knome> the site says "Visit the Fridge"
[00:33] <knome> but that's called the ubuntu news...
[00:33] <pleia2> fridge is having an identity crisis
[00:33] <knome> heh
[00:33] <knome> x)
[00:33] <knome> okay..
[00:34] <knome> you probably knew, but the shot at "What is Xubuntu?" is QUITE old
[00:35] <pleia2> yeah, if someone wants to screenshot a maverick I'd be happy to put it up
[00:35] <knome> heh
[00:35] <knome> does it need to be default layout? :P
[00:36] <pleia2> yeah, that's why I haven't done it yet :)
[00:36] <knome> yeah..
[00:36] <pleia2> I should just toss it on a vm real quick, but I r teh lazy
[00:36] <pleia2> lemme make a bug and then it will annoy me enough to do it
[00:36] <knome> well, we'll get to change that image as well ;)
[00:36] <knome> haha, well okay, if that makes you do it
[00:36] <knome> we need to take new shots when natty is released anyway
[00:36] <knome> so is it worth it?
[00:37]  * pleia2 shrugs
[00:37] <pleia2> I think there are a few other screenshots on the site, I should really just go through the whole thing and inventory
[00:38] <knome> yeah
[00:38] <knome> there are quite a meny
[00:38] <knome> *many
[00:38] <pleia2> plus it'll give me a list for every release when we need to go screenshot happy
[00:38] <knome> unless we add/remove shots :)
[00:39] <pleia2> oh, thoughts on making our wiki less eye-bleeding?
[00:39] <knome> our wiki?
[00:39] <pleia2> wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
[00:39] <knome> right, that
[00:39] <pleia2> I'm thinking just making all the blocks light blue
[00:39] <pleia2> the first one is ok, the other 3 are :(
[00:39] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Toolbox/MenuNew
[00:40] <knome> that's an idea.
[00:40] <pleia2> orange on dark blue is hard to read
[00:40] <pleia2> actually I guess dark blue is ok, it's that medium blue that's the trouble
[00:41] <pleia2> I like that though, aside from the middle one
[00:41] <knome> i know, but the colors are pretty easy to change
[00:41] <knome> well, the non-link colors
[00:41]  * pleia2 nods
[00:42] <pleia2> charlie-tca does such a good job at keeping our meeting notes up to date
[00:43]  * knome tries not to giggle and burst to tears at the same time
[00:43] <knome> btw, the new smiley's at the wiki are awful
[00:44] <pleia2> the new branding ones?
[00:44] <knome> yeah
[00:45] <pleia2> hm, they are worse than I remember
[00:45] <knome> yeah
[00:45] <knome> !
[00:45] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Toolbox/MenuNew
[00:46] <pleia2> oh, nice
[00:47] <pleia2> ok, I'll poke some people about putting that one in
[00:47] <pleia2> my eyes will be so much happier
[00:47] <knome> heh
[00:47] <knome> can't we just put that in right now?
[00:47] <pleia2> I dunno, I don't want to upset anyone :)
[00:47] <knome> hah
[00:48] <knome> i want to
[00:48] <knome> ;]
[00:48] <pleia2> upset people?
[00:48] <pleia2> hehhe :P
[00:48] <knome> no i mean, it's an improvement for everybody
[00:48] <pleia2> yeah, ok, it's a wiki, we can revert if there are protests in the street
[00:48] <pleia2> it looks good and is readable, unlike now
[00:48] <knome> in the street? i ain't going outside, so no worries, but if they come in...
[00:49] <pleia2> haha
[00:49] <pleia2> yay!
[00:49] <knome> well yeah
[00:50] <pleia2> that looks very good knome, thank you :)
[00:50] <knome> i know we have the governance where everything goes through charlie-tca, but that takes a long time, and i actually showed that to charlie already and the only concern was the colors
[00:50] <pleia2> ah good
[00:51] <knome> i think we need some padding
[00:56] <knome> i added some padding
[00:56] <knome> should look more clean now, the wiki header
[00:57] <pleia2> yeah that's good
[00:59] <knome> i think i'll hit the bed now
[00:59] <pleia2> night knome :)
[00:59] <knome> 3am, and i'm planning to go to city @noon tomorrow
[00:59] <pleia2> good luck
[00:59] <knome> night, and have a nice day!
[01:00] <charlie-tca> back from dinner
[01:00] <pleia2> wb charlie-tca 
[01:01] <charlie-tca> pleia2: can we use natty screenshots on the website, we are only 4 weeks from release now
[01:01] <pleia2> charlie-tca: ok, maybe from the natty beta1 tomorrow?
[01:01] <pleia2> I'll toss up a VM and get screenshotting
[01:01] <pleia2> or just wait until release
[01:01] <charlie-tca> sure
[01:01] <charlie-tca> I can do a hardware install and screenshot it if you want
[01:02] <pleia2> yeah, that works too :)
[01:02] <charlie-tca> I don't have one handy, my last installs were for Ubuntu
[01:02] <pleia2> I need to toss up a beta1 vm this week to make sure I'm ready for the jam this weekend anyway
[01:03] <charlie-tca> I think I did about 16 sat and sun, and another 8 or 10 today
[01:03] <pleia2> nice :)
[10:17] <Aquina> 'o
[14:43] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[14:43] <charlie-tca> Do we want to do any blueprints for UDS this time?
[14:43] <charlie-tca> cut off for them is May 5
[14:45] <ochosi> sry, i'm not really sure i know what the blueprints are about/good for, could you elaborate a bit?
[14:45] <charlie-tca> they are what is normally used to decide all the major changes for each release
[14:46] <charlie-tca> UDS is a place to take the blueprints, discuss them, and make the decisions. That way things get decided within the first month and the blueprint gives the plan to implement the changes
[14:46] <ochosi> but you're talking about xubuntu specific blueprints in our case, right?
[14:47] <charlie-tca> right
[14:47] <ochosi> do you think anyone will care about those at UDS?
[14:47] <mr_pouit> no ;D
[14:47] <charlie-tca> Instead of waiting to discuss the changes in meetings and then the ML, we could blueprint it and track it easier, maybe
[14:47] <charlie-tca> I was asked last time if there were any xubuntu sessions
[14:47] <ochosi> right
[14:48] <ochosi> charlie-tca: are you going to UDS?
[14:48] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you going to UDS this time or is that just not your thing?
[14:48] <charlie-tca> ochosi: hopefully, yes. as QA
[14:48] <ochosi> k
[14:49] <charlie-tca> I go for the QA stuff, accessibility, and then try to keep things from running Xubuntu over in the process
[14:49] <charlie-tca> There has been at least one change at two UDS
[14:49] <ochosi> yes?
[14:50] <charlie-tca> that did not take place that would have adversely affected us
[14:50] <ochosi> what was that change?
[14:50] <charlie-tca> Sure, ask me that
[14:51] <mr_pouit> no, I don't go to UDS, as I don't know what I could do there :}
[14:51] <charlie-tca> 40 sessions + each UDS, my brain doesn't remember details well. I just remember getting my side of it in
[14:51] <charlie-tca> this will be my second in-person UDS.
[14:52] <ochosi> i'm just wondering what we would gain from UDS (apart from opinions/feedback of ubuntu people) especially if we have to implement the changes we want ourselves anyway
[14:52] <charlie-tca> I can understand that, mr_pouit . Unless we pushed all the Xubuntu changes through the blueprints, it doesn't affect Xubuntu as a project so much
[14:53] <charlie-tca> That would depend on how many of us got there, too
[14:53] <ochosi> mmh
[14:53] <mr_pouit> ochosi: moreover, we don't want to control the xfce development, and don't want to overpatch everything ;>
[14:54] <ochosi> mr_pouit: completely agree with you on that. if there were a xfce-DS that might make more sense for us :)
[14:54] <charlie-tca> I would like to see us get rid of more gnome dependencies if possible. Also, I stll want midori ;-)
[14:55] <ochosi> yes, more xfce-apps would be cool
[14:55] <charlie-tca> I fear we will see more dependencies as Xfce incorporates accessibility into 4.10
[14:55] <ochosi> actually one thing i would really love to see is some alternative to xscreensaver
[14:56] <charlie-tca> It is better then gnome-screensaver in actual use. What else do we have to pick from?
[14:56] <ochosi> not sure there's much else tbh
[14:57] <ochosi> my search has mainly turned up those two
[14:57] <ochosi> and iirc mr_pouit said that gnome-screensaver has gained a few really bad dependencies
[14:57] <charlie-tca> yup
[14:57] <charlie-tca> Changes were made to the wiki last night. 
[14:57] <ochosi> so actually it doesn't seem like we have a choice
[14:57] <charlie-tca> Has anyone noticed?
[14:57] <ochosi> not yet
[14:57] <ochosi> xubuntu wiki?
[14:58] <charlie-tca> yup
[14:58] <ochosi> or generally the ubuntu wiki
[14:58] <ochosi> right
[14:58] <charlie-tca> header
[14:58] <ochosi> let me have a look
[14:58] <charlie-tca> I don't use the default theme, and it fails bad now
[14:58] <charlie-tca> Borders are around the boxes, and show up in "rightsidebar" theme, at least
[14:59] <ochosi> it feels a bit snappier
[15:00] <charlie-tca> Works a little better as far as colors with the orange, in the default theme
[15:01] <charlie-tca> but it feels like a work in progress, if it won't work with other themes besides the default
[15:01] <ochosi> mhm
[15:02] <ochosi> i'll try to switch themes now (was using "ubuntu" before)
[15:04] <charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/145887 is what I get now
[15:04] <ochosi> yeah, looks kinda odd
[15:04] <charlie-tca> It doesn't fit the page, borders should not be there, and under Contribute, the links run together bad
[15:05] <ochosi> the light theme seems to work ok
[15:05] <ochosi> at least better than most other themes
[15:05] <charlie-tca> We need to find a way to make the links separate, on all the themes
[15:06] <charlie-tca> I kind of like the table under xubuntu, but it too looks wrong, with the extra little column on the end
[15:06] <ochosi> yes, that's definitely not nice code
[15:08] <ochosi> charlie-tca: what do you think of just collecting ideas for natty+1 internally somewhere instead of UDS blueprints? (maybe even on a wiki-page)
[15:08] <ochosi> you can still discuss the things that are ready by UDS with the people there and get feedback
[15:09] <charlie-tca> Kind of like adding something to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap, either directly on the page or an additional draft page?
[15:09] <charlie-tca> I don't think I can ever learn to spell owneyerick correctly, though
[15:10] <ochosi> :)
[15:10] <ochosi> charlie-tca: maybe it's a good idea to start with a rather blank page and move the items that have been discussed somehow to the roadmap page
[15:11] <ochosi> that way there would be some intermediary step to help us distinguish between "approved"/"discussed" items and proposed items
[15:11] <charlie-tca> damn, too slow typing. I agree
[15:11] <ochosi> ok cool
[15:11] <charlie-tca> We could add an O page and start in
[15:11] <ochosi> good
[15:12] <ochosi> i already have a few ideas for greybird, and maybe we can add a list of apps we'
[15:12] <charlie-tca> Will you do that, with a link off the Roadmap page?
[15:12] <ochosi> d like to review for oneiric as well
[15:12] <ochosi> yeah, good idea
[15:12] <charlie-tca> Great! Thanks 
[15:13] <charlie-tca> I give up putting in claws-mail, it just doesn't have the user interface, unless we consider our users advanced.
[15:13] <ochosi> yeah, i agree
[15:13] <ochosi> maybe we can review postler for oneiric
[15:13] <ochosi> the development has been steady there lately
[15:13] <charlie-tca> What is it?
[15:13] <ochosi> it's a pretty simplistic mail-client (same dev as midori)
[15:14] <charlie-tca> Really? I will go find it then and look at it
[15:14] <ochosi> yes, there should be a ppa already iirc
[15:14] <charlie-tca> um, as a side note, Ubuntu may go to Thunderbird this time, too.
[15:14] <ochosi> right
[15:14] <ochosi> at least that would mean more messaging menu integration
[15:15] <ochosi> oh, one more note on postler: as you will quickly notice it only supports imap, so no pop emails :)
[15:15] <charlie-tca> How many more dependencies will it create (with gnome), I wonder?
[15:15] <charlie-tca> people still use pop?
[15:15] <ochosi> no clue :)
[15:15] <ochosi> i wouldn't use pop
[15:16] <ochosi> i think it's ok, but it's one of the very few shortcomings of postler
[15:16] <charlie-tca> I will go looking for that too, then. If it is still needed for a large population, we will have to support it
[15:16] <ochosi> also be sure to check out the address-application called "dexter", in the same ppa
[15:16] <charlie-tca> also, what about migration?
[15:16] <ochosi> with imap you won't need much migration
[15:17] <ochosi> but you can import mailboxes afaik
[15:17] <charlie-tca> I got about 15,000 messages in claws-mail
[15:17] <ochosi> right
[15:17] <charlie-tca> not to mention, the about 100 folders
[15:17] <ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~postler-dev/+archive/ppa
[15:17] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[15:17] <ochosi> np
[15:18] <ochosi> but you have all those messages in claws as an offline archive?
[15:18] <ochosi> (meaning: not on your imap server)
[15:23] <charlie-tca> yes
[15:23] <charlie-tca> I store very few on the imap server
[15:23] <charlie-tca> I don't have enough space to keep them there
[15:24] <ochosi> right, i thought keeping the emails there was the reason for imap
[15:24] <charlie-tca> well, it works if the message base isn't too big, but mine is something like montrous
[15:26] <charlie-tca> I could be wrong about the size on my hard drive, too.
[15:34] <ochosi> charlie-tca: one last thing, it might be worth posting a notice to the ML to invite everyone to contribute ideas for oneiric
[15:34] <charlie-tca> Agreed. 
[15:35] <charlie-tca> That's why I brought blueprints. I think we need to get an email out and get things rolling soon
[19:26] <beardygnome> hi charlie-tca are you around?
[19:31] <knome> beardygnome, anything i can help with?
[19:32] <beardygnome> not sure knome
[19:32] <beardygnome> i emailed charlie earlier in the week and was wondering if he'd had a chnace to look at it yet
[19:32] <knome> what was it about
[19:33] <beardygnome> i was wondering how flexible the weekly meeting times / dates were
[19:33] <knome> i suppose not so flexible, but we can propose to change the regular time
[19:34] <beardygnome> my personal circumstances are changing and thursdays aren't going to be practical for me going forward
[19:34] <beardygnome> on the other hand, i don't want to put everyone else to any inconvenience
[19:37] <knome> the thursday evenings are not very well for me either
[19:39] <beardygnome> so i wouldn't be the only one who'd benefit from a change then....
[19:39] <knome> yup
[20:23] <micahg> charlie-tca: guessing there's no meeting today
[20:23] <knome> hihi
[20:23] <knome> ;)
[20:24] <Unit193> They said last time that we were going to skip this time
[20:24]  * pleia2 nods
[20:25]  * micahg seems to have missed that
[20:25] <knome> there was no message to the devel ML though, so people who didn't attend didn't know about that
[20:26]  * micahg attend, but was only partially present
[20:27] <charlie-tca> right, I am behind on meeting minutes, but the logs are available to anyone that wants to write them up, too
[20:28] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: looking into possible days and times
[20:28] <beardygnome> thanks charlie-tca
[20:46] <charlie-tca> Sorry, micahg. I got caught up trying to get the candidates tested and lost track of messages
[22:37] <charlie-tca> Hello, vinnl 
[22:37] <charlie-tca> not out yet
[22:38] <charlie-tca> well, unless you read OMG! Ubuntu
[22:38] <vinnl> Hi
[22:38] <vinnl> Crap
[22:38] <vinnl> Haha I thought I'd ask here first :P
[22:39] <charlie-tca> If you need to, release it and we will be okay.
[22:39] <charlie-tca> We really need to make sure we do made the announcements this time around. 
[22:39] <vinnl> How long will it take? I've got a few little things I've still got to do
[22:39] <vinnl> Yeah
[22:40] <charlie-tca> by the way, news goes to the planet now, too
[22:40] <vinnl> Yeah I saw, great :)
[22:40] <charlie-tca> There are some edits being made to the Ubuntu web site for the announcement, then it will be made.
[22:41] <charlie-tca> Tried to give you some things to work with in the release notes. Do we do our own notes for the Beta2 now, since it repaces the RC?
[22:41] <vinnl> I don't know, I've never really made release notes
[22:42] <charlie-tca> heh, me either
[22:42] <charlie-tca> but I learn quick... 
[22:42] <vinnl> Wasn't there some guy a while ago who offered to do it and did it once?
[22:42] <charlie-tca> yes, and hasn't been heard from since
[22:43] <charlie-tca> Want to try it that way again for the final? I thought maybe I could throw something together, since I have a pretty good idea of where we went and what we are doing now.
[22:44] <vinnl> That last option should be fine, I guess
[22:45] <vinnl> Anyway, my laptop broke down, which I had imported from the US, and tech support is online now, which means I have reasons to stay online too :P
[22:49] <charlie-tca> Sorry, that makes it much harder to get things done with it.
[23:00] <charlie-tca> vinnl: announcement went out just a few minutes ago. Let's go ahead with ours, too.
[23:01] <pleia2> \o/
[23:02]  * Unit193 should probably subscribe to the ML...
[23:42] <charlie-tca> Thank you all for the great work done to get this Natty Narwhal Beta1 out! It is shaping up to be a really good release, and I think we will gain users because of all your work!
[23:44]  * micahg hopes people like gmusicbrowser :)
[23:44] <ochosi> micahg: sure thing ;)
[23:45] <charlie-tca> How could they not like it?
[23:45] <micahg> ochosi: did you talk to squentin?
[23:45] <knome> for the same reason they didn't like when we presented exaile as the default music player? :P
[23:45] <micahg> knome: exaile wasn't that great
[23:46] <ochosi> micahg: yes, he was a bit hesitant at first but i guess he'll release a new version sometime soon so it'll supersede the version in debian
[23:46] <knome> neither is gmusicbrowser for all users
[23:46] <knome> o hai ochosi 
[23:46] <ochosi> well, people seem to realise those things one release late
[23:46] <ochosi> bluebird is having a pretty good phase again atm :)
[23:46] <ochosi> all in all i think we have nothing to worry about
[23:46] <ochosi> we did a lot of good work and i think 11.04 will be so much better than 10.10
[23:47] <micahg> yep, I think 4.8 by itself is a big draw
[23:47] <ochosi> yes
[23:48] <charlie-tca> change is hard for some of us, even when it is for the best.
[23:48] <charlie-tca> I think I will wait for alpha2 on oneiric before I upgrade from natty
[23:49] <ochosi> yeah, i'm kinda wondering what suprises the ubuntu-folks keep for us in oneiric
[23:49] <ochosi> maybe more gtk-hacking
[23:49] <ochosi> (and maybe more breakage)
[23:50] <micahg> well, there will be finishing the port to gnome3 and the start of deprecation of the unsupported gnome2 pieces
[23:50] <charlie-tca> We will have that. Also, they do not intend to keep the fallback for oneiric. It will only have Unity, apparently.
[23:51]  * micahg guesses it'll be installable, just not available in the default install
[23:51] <knome> judging from what happened with kubuntu in 8.04, i'm sure they don't want to make it unaccessible