[00:00] so it will happen they say to a heart patient he is able to work 100 % [00:00] whit sometimes causes even dead [00:01] because that person will get work by example harbour [00:01] whit heavy lifting [00:03] then i understand the thoughts do i want take that risk .answer yes because nothing is more worse to stand your whole life at side from the road and never can join [00:04] so its the same where you live charlie-tca [00:05] Yes, it seems much the same [00:05] Doctor says "you can not work". then government doctors have to do all the testing again, to say "you can not work". Then another set of government doctors do all the testing again. [00:06] Then you get enough money to be broke, and it takes at least two years of not working, and if you have money in the bank, you can not get money from the government. [00:06] btw i meant i was write earlier in chat here.i go hold petition to give the government a push in right direction to make internet at least from goverment sides accessible for all people.and even if i must walk a week.i go give the list from signs to lenie smit kroes minister from ict department from europe [00:07] and the government always disapproves the disability application the first time it goes in. [00:07] Good luck with the petition. [00:07] same here charlie-tca [00:07] i now how to do it [00:08] i go pull all organisations from people whit health issues [00:08] from out so many country s i can reach [00:08] frrom whole europe [00:08] that's a lot of work [00:08] to reach very much people [00:09] only need to make a mail then only need that mail translated in all europian languages [00:09] the last part i go look for help here on irc [00:10] then i go mail all instances [00:10] it have no use to cry in the corner.and also not complain by the person under the line [00:11] i go complain whit thousends voices by the top [00:11] and if i succeed whit miljon voices [00:12] I have done some of that, it just gets me too tired to keep pushing it now. [00:12] miljons [00:12] millions [00:12] i go pull press and television to [00:12] yes millions [00:12] undifined knows people in the press world [00:13] he have worked there [00:13] I hope you succeed with that. [00:13] just need some help whit translating [00:13] nothing more [00:14] o and a video what is usefull for deaf people [00:14] hajour: I don't know where to find it, but I think there are some EU accessibility guidelines somewhere [00:14] I am tired now and have to go rest [00:14] you never have to use by example do you task for government [00:14] Hello, Pendulum [00:15] ok charlie-tca good night sleep well [00:15] Thank you. Get some rest, too. [00:15] it is not possible to enlarge fonts by that Pendulum [00:15] they say do it on paper [00:16] you get paper whit very long lines and even smaller fonts then on that program from internet by them [00:16] and so difficult words more then half of netherland not knopw what it means [00:17] that not only is by that [00:17] hajour: I just mean that I think there are guidelines that the EU has passed. It might be worth researching that as another thing to bring to the government [00:17] also by forms for asking welfair by job centre ect [00:18] UK i go use for good example.why only UK caan do it and not the others? [00:18] thank you for the info Pendulum [00:19] -a [00:19] if UK can do it then the rest must be able to do that to [00:19] and some maybe not.but its europe [00:20] help each other to reach it is accessible [00:20] what know only happen here is pointing fingers to each other [00:20] they need to care for it no they [00:21] we cant do something about it ect [00:21] whats the use on that [00:21] only waist of time [00:22] use time for to improve instead of pointing fingers to each other [00:22] *nods* [00:22] and that i go say there [00:23] if you not know how [00:23] ask the one who know [00:23] trown away that stupid proud [00:23] and listen [00:24] its not about who is smarter or better then the other [00:24] its about to reach a gaol [00:24] working together [00:24] do not look at a fancy label [00:24] look at what someone can do [00:25] what can you learn from that person or what can you do to help the other so that person can learn it to [00:26] thats how i see it [00:27] well thats anyway my thoughts about it [00:27] do i see it wrong then? [00:29] looks to me most important to reach together the end goal [00:29] no, I think you have it right [00:30] btw at the end they will go be better from it.less people in well fair .less help needed because people are able to do so much more them self [00:31] more growing business more make use of knowledge/skills from people [00:32] and more pople more happy [00:32] people [00:33] growing economics what really use much more knowledge from all kind of people [00:35] so it seams i go again stirring in the mud to get the mud out so much as possible and get more clear water again [00:37] mmm maybe that is why they not really like me in meetings by instances.because i listen to others but then i really want to hear a good build understatement and not crap.that i wave away whit a couple of words [00:38] *nods* [00:39] btw i won on school by my daughter.they not can say nothing anymore.and now finally after 1 and half year she got a dislectis pass and right help [00:39] they wanted to go rid of here whitout any diploma [00:40] i not have agreed [00:40] i have pull inspector of education to look at it so they not good refuse anymore [00:40] i not easy give up [00:41] i maybe sometimes fall down but i climb up again to go further [00:42] even with 3 persons they could not win.because i know very much they not can go rid of me whit lies and false promises [00:44] btw even if i not would like a person. and i see that person is victim of unjustified i will go say something about it [00:44] i cant stand unjust-mend [00:45] uch i flood whole channel [00:45] very much [00:45] you're fine, I"m just kinda out of it so not saying much [00:45] well official flooding is not allowed [00:46] so i broke the rules [00:46] but Pendulum why then not go rest then? [00:47] you need to care for yourself good Pendulum [00:47] if you are more better feeling.i mean less tired [00:47] hajour: flooding is usually when someone pastes in a lot of information. You're just chatting :) [00:48] nop i talking more alone.it feels a bit like talking to myself a little:) [00:49] but if you feeling some better againi really would like to talk about that bracelet thing.maybe its also or something like that a solution for me [00:51] i am now at stadium i cant even not anymore cut my own nails [00:52] kinda desperate.i want my little independent back i had [00:53] yeah, I have no idea how it would work for you. My problem is that my joints move too much [00:53] so it hold them in place correctly [00:53] *holds [00:53] power was going less in my left hand half of it [00:53] and feeling [00:54] but it going progressing [00:54] now sometimes my finger by the bindings between bones.my finger go stand in weird position [00:55] then i push it back again to get it good agin.but that hurts very much [00:56] its like dislocated fingers [00:56] sorry needed to translate it first [00:56] okay, then it might help you [00:57] I don't know if the company I bought them from works with anyone outside the US, though [00:57] ok so it hold your bones on the right place [00:57] yes [00:57] http://www.silverringsplint.com/ is where mine are from [00:57] that sound good [00:58] how is the typing going whit that? [00:58] it's slower than it was, but it's good [00:58] things hurt less [00:59] hurting less is always good [00:59] well i am at stage i am willing to try everything [00:59] i have cried i discovered i could not any more my own nails you know [00:59] cut my own nails [01:00] not 1 doctor know where is is caused trough [01:00] it is [01:00] i not know where i am fighting against [01:00] i not know what is coming [01:02] *nods* [01:02] with cold my fingers go pulling double.then it takes in warm room 3 hours for i get it normal again and can use them [01:03] *nods* [01:03] :) [01:03] what that message is? [01:03] whatmeans global notice? [01:04] hajour: it's just freenode staff being funny [01:05] not know what it means honest say [01:06] mm link do not work btw [01:07] don't worry, it's not really funny anyway [01:08] well just curious [01:10] well i just looking for a solution to keep my little independent-mend i have to keep [01:11] because 1 day i will get work [01:12] i not have fight to come to here to let pull me down again by this [01:13] ye i know i am rebellious. that is said to my thousands of times [01:14] my=me [01:16] mhall119, correct me if i remember wrong.but was you from edubuntu to or whas that someone else? [01:17] just remember something [01:17] i need to do [01:17] and it was from edubuntu [01:18] hajour: I've been involved with edubuntu, yes [01:18] btw Pendulum you maybe take better some rest? [01:18] ok then i am right [01:19] ok i wanted to ask you something.can you keep contact with jacky fot to care speechcontrol also works on edubuntu? [01:19] hajour: yeah, I'm heading off now. [01:20] hajour: g'night [01:20] ok Pendulum take care for yourself ok ?:) [01:20] I"m trying :) [01:20] goodnight Pendulum and thanks for the link [01:21] oeps fogot toput inname again mhall119 ^ [01:21] see lines above [01:22] if we got good accessibility programs i can get 18 schools convince to use edubuntu primary schools [01:22] all depends on that [01:23] but first i need to resolve laptop problem from jacky [01:23] and best would be.i have speechcontrol working for begin july [01:24] else i need to wait a whole year [01:24] they sign contracts whit company for programs for a year you see [01:25] if all go good .whit that schools i can work on the other schools here in province friesland from netherland [01:26] yepi not have forget it i use tomboy very usable [01:26] mhall119, ^ [01:26] hajour: sadly I haven't been able to do much with edubuntu this cycle [01:26] you'd be better off asking stgraber or highvoltage over in #edubuntu [01:27] who i can contact the best from edubuntu mhall119 [01:27] either stgraber or highvoltage [01:28] but this close to the release of 11.04, any new packages like speechcontrol will probably have to wait until 11.10 [01:28] pfew will they kick me out.because it looks like flooding my way of chatting here [01:28] :( [01:28] yes i know mmm [01:28] it's not like them to kick anybody out [01:28] also it need to go work on electronic schoolboards to. [01:29] so i would like close working together you see [01:29] the smartboards? I don't know how well they are supported on Linux [01:29] yes [01:29] heads together is knowing more [01:30] mhall119, primary schools use edubuntu it will can cause a chain reaction.to high schools ect [01:31] from schools to company s [01:31] children from today are the grown up from tomorrow [01:33] o o its already 2:32 night. oops i had promise go try sleep early [01:33] first time i am glad undifined have forgot tolog back in again on IRC XD [01:34] so i just not go tell [01:34] welli gotry anyway [01:34] very hard [01:36] i just everytime flapout right away [01:36] i am a terrible liar.i simply almost not can lie [01:37] and sometimes that is not very handy [01:39] i sometimes forget things.but not on purpose.well i better not go even try btw.because i not will succeed anyway [01:39] well i go try to come half way my promise [01:39] i go to sleep [01:40] good night all or have fun for who it is day [01:42] o last thing [01:42] mhall119, if it is good i will come to edubuntu channel tomorrow [01:43] but was wondering which time would be the best to come also [01:43] I think both those guys are on US/Eastern time [01:44] utc? [01:44] not have a cleu that means [01:45] * hajour yawns [01:45] well i willfigure that out later i am tired now [01:46] good night aand thanks for the help mhall119 [01:46] -a [01:49] ah just could read the link after put in odt and enlarge it.found it funny XD [01:50] good night all [01:51] -RichiH- [01:51] see above [12:00] just discovered that a whole bunch of people on a disability-related forum I'm on use Ubuntu. Maybe I'll pick up some recruits from there :) === erkan^2 is now known as erkan^ [17:30] Pendulum: Yay! [17:31] hey Pendulum [17:36] hiya [18:13] 16:41 < pitti> * unity a11y: Now defaults to the classic GNOME session for the a11y profiles which need screen reading; this means the remaining Unity a11y issues are now out of the critical path. [18:13] from the release meeting today [18:15] Yeah, I knew that was happening except no one seems to have said anything about non screen reading profiles! [18:16] TheMuso: are we really only defaulting back to classic GNOME only for screen reading profiles or will we for onscreen keyboard profiles as well? [18:17] I am a bit surprised at the lack of onscreen keyboard fixing in this cycle [18:18] given all the utouch excitement and iPad type devices [18:22] * Pendulum adds that comment to the dash bug [18:22] well, just highlighted it, hopefully [18:42] Pendulum: sorry for never blogging about it, I still have a half finished blog post which ened up taking a political turn so I went to hide [18:43] pleia2: it's okay :) [18:43] it's hard for me to talk about unity [18:43] *nods* [18:45] also, reading "That's OK, because we have the Classic desktop fallback in Natty, but will not in Oneiric." came as a surprise to me (maybe I just haven't been paying attention?) [18:45] I assume it's due to gnome3? [18:45] it came as a surprise to a number of people last night [18:46] +1 [18:46] also surprised me [18:46] I assume it's due to Unity 2D [18:46] which could really break accessibility [18:46] Have to wonder what the nvidia cards are going to use, if they don't need the fallback [18:46] easy to keep gnome2 on the cd for now, but gnome3 is probably bigger and not so happily-living-togeter with unity [18:46] since I don't think the announcement that Gnome 3 is being delayed by 6 months was an April Fools [18:46] yup [18:47] * pleia2 hugs charlie-tca and xubuntu [18:48] * charlie-tca thinks xubuntu is so much easier now [18:49] 11.04 is very nice [18:49] Of course, it will change too, when Xfce 4.10 comes along with accessibility built in [18:49] (and yes, I understand how important accessiblity is on the flagship ubuntu is, you guys rock for fighting this battle :)) [18:50] charlie-tca: nice! [18:52] pleia2, last UDS was already about what to remove from the install cd, I thing for 11.10 we will have to move to DVD [18:53] UndiFineD: they talk about what to remove from the install cd every UDS [18:53] or at least, it's been discussed at the last 3 [18:56] that is what the app review board does [18:56] cuts stuff and includes stuff [18:56] gimp got cut :( [18:56] but other stuff gets in :) [18:56] Yes, specifically so that it fits the cd [18:57] There is also a dvd available, but for many countries, cd is big enough to have to download. Many people don't have the bandwidth for the dvd [18:58] I'm probably 100 years old, but I still have computers w/o dvd roms [18:58] I upgraded mine in the last year; just replaced the cd drive with a dvd drive [19:00] pleia2, mine hasnt either ... blueray [19:00] * charlie-tca did that as the drives burned out, though [19:02] hm, if screen-reader installation is now using classic-gnome, my whole test case is invalid. [19:02] Pendulum: I ran both screen-reader and high-contrast tests this last week [19:03] and keep trying to get dasher and onboard fixed, too [19:03] Got to keep trying, right? [19:07] well, your work is not for nothing, you build the test case and it would be reusable for next release [19:07] yeah, true [19:07] less work for next cycle :P [19:08] the problem is I built a test case to not use unity, converted it to unity, and now have to build a new one without unity [19:08] can some of it be used for Classic Gnome testing as well? [19:08] no [19:08] Well, maybe [19:08] and you don't have a copy of your original non-unity one? [19:09] nope [19:09] didn't need that one no more [19:10] Wait, maybe I do. I sent it to skaet, maybe I have the message. [19:14] I was just getting Unity running to test with Orca and other stuff [19:14] but that is a bit pointless I guess [19:15] although maybe not [19:15] for now [19:15] the orca *installer* puts you in classic gnome [19:16] That was just changed yesterday [19:16] It has been using unity if it is supported by the system [19:16] but if ubuntu is installed by a sighted person someone could just start orca with unity running [19:17] However, the whole point of Unity is the prettyness, which is not there if you can not see it [19:17] and orca does work with unity running. I have been using it for a while [19:18] but we also need to test the rest of the options under F5 on the desktop cd [19:18] We need all the options working [19:20] god I wish I had a spare machine to test on :-/ [19:22] I will keep testing them, and passing the test cases down to here. Getting more people trying it really helps, though [19:22] It never occurred to me to try orca in VBox, for example. I knew the install wouldn't go to unity, so I didn't use it. [19:33] ah, I think the onscreen keyboards are a consequence of Unity sitting outside of compiz [19:33] they need a new onscreen keyboard I think [19:33] that runs in the unity layer [19:33] oh dear [19:34] well that isn't neccessarily a bad thing [19:35] it's another project [19:35] a new really awesome keyboard, like a phone or tablet keyboard, maybe like swype would be a good thing [19:35] and it means 2 actually because Unity 2D and Unity 3D [19:35] compiz powered keyboard of awesome [19:36] which are under the hood completely different [19:36] probably, yes [19:36] and getting someone to do it in the next 6 months [19:36] (since we apparently lose classic Gnome with Oneiric [19:36] ) [19:39] eh, Unity is sitting inside Compiz, not outside? [19:39] JanC: well kinda [19:39] all the compiz effects don't affect unity [19:40] yay, effect and affect used correctly in one sentence \o/ [19:40] ^_^ [19:40] AlanBell: which is exactly because it is not a window managed by compiz ☺ [19:40] so zoom, colour filters, workspace zoom etc all don't touch unity [19:41] yes, that is what I meant [19:41] and I expect that is why keyboard input events don't go to unity [19:43] waah, alt+click anywhere on a window and drag doesn't work [19:44] I suppose compiz "windows" are by default handled differently because otherwise effects would be applied recursively ;) [19:46] well it is so that the workspace switcher doesn't zoom out the sidebar along with the workspaces [19:46] maybe it would be better if they would turn the UI panels etc. into "normal" windows/applications again, and only use compiz to handle effects... [19:51] and workspace handling in unity is broken anyway :-( [20:20] AlanBell: charlie-tca, was I just mocked on that bug? [20:21] I don't think so, he asked jono to look at it [20:21] ok [20:21] 11:56:58 < grantbow> jono: thanks for looking at that bug. I agree with pleia2 there's an issue there. [20:21] 11:59:15 < jono> grantbow, pleia2 I suspect this will be bumped to Ocelot - I agree with Mark that this does not inhibit the Ubuntu experience for a11y reasons, the classic mode still exists, but it will make Unity suck [20:21] pleia2: thanks :) [20:21] I got thrown off by the april fools reference [20:22] yeah, I had to read it a couple times [20:22] I think he was calling Unity itself a joke on tablets [20:22] yeah, I couldn't tell which way he meant it [20:22] That isn't in the bug report, though [20:22] I couldn't tell either, and took it as a negative comment to the bug itself [20:23] Pendulum: I was going to ask him what he meant by that [20:23] I didn't think he was mocking you, I just didn't understand his point [20:23] it's rather disappointing that Unity is crap on tablets since visually it reminds me much more of a tablet interfact than a regular computer one [20:23] yeah :\ [20:23] *interface [20:24] Well, at least accessibility is not taking the back seat all the time, right? [20:24] haha [20:24] I *think* he was saying unity doesn't work well on touchscreens anyway, which surprises me [20:24] We got real good visibility now, let's keep that going, at least. [20:24] :) [20:24] AlanBell: there've been a couple things I've heard about the launcher hiding without mouseover? [20:25] ooh, yes it will do that [20:25] I only just figured out that to get it back you put the mouse on the top left pixel of the screen [20:25] which is a bit hard in virtualbox as the mouse isn't constrained [20:28] in much better news for today, baseball season started last night! (and the first red sox game of the season is in 30 minutes \o/ ) [20:28] baseball \o/ [20:29] sorry, I know unrelated, but I love baseball! [20:29] :) [20:30] and the sox should be very happy that they're playing in Texas [20:30] it's cold and snowy in NE [22:04] Pendulum: Only for blindness related profiles, but we can also for on-screen keyboard profiles if people so wish. [22:05] TheMuso: well, right not it looks like the onscreen keyboard doesn't work for Unity... [22:05] Thats interesting, I thought onboard worked at the X layer. If thats the case, I'll switch that profile too. [22:06] TheMuso: it works on some, but not on everything. can't search for apps, for example [22:06] charlie-tca: ^^ [22:06] Ah ok. [22:06] yes, might be best to switch it [22:07] No Onbaord or dasher can use the search in the dash [22:08] dash closes on any keypress not directly on it [22:09] Right, just read backscroll. [22:09] We really need unity and compiz playing nice for things like eZoom. [22:10] And if even onboard can't enter into search fields, then we are starting to really get screwed with the architecture. [22:11] yup [22:12] bug 739812 [22:12] Launchpad bug 739812 in unity "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739812 [22:13] yeah have seen that bug. [22:14] Damn it. My monitor has developed an intermitant blue line down the middle. THis is a desktop monitor, and I've had it for almost 5 years... [22:14] A connectino is starting to go heywire I think. [22:14] a big line or one small enough to ignore? [22:15] One in such a position that I notice it and it distracts me. [22:15] Its all the way from the top to the bottom. [22:15] And probably 1-20 pixels wide, give or take. [22:16] Actually, probably 5-10 but still. [22:20] TheMuso: Hey man, get my email a few weeks ago? [22:21] Nafai: Yeah I did, but have been rather busy, so it slipped my mind sorry. [22:22] Nafai: Heh I can't even remember what speech synth I was talking about last year, there have been a few that have popped up over the years. [22:22] no problem, completely understand given the release and such [22:24] bbiab getting breakfast. [22:24] I really need to understand how to use and configure magnification, as my vision has been getting worse lately, but I'm completely useless at using the stuff with Orca [22:24] i might be able to help with kmag [22:25] will that work on top of Gnome? (I assume kmag is a KDE tool) [22:25] I don't need an extreme amount of magnification, just be able to toggle it off and on in certain cases [22:26] yes it should [22:27] i think itd work best with tiling window managers, but most people don't use them. [22:27] i set it to "follow mouse mode" and make its window smaller (like 1/4 of the screen) and then that window holds a zoomed view of what's around your mouse [22:27] Nafai: compiz has an ezoom plugin which you can configure with keybindings to zoom in/out [22:28] (the reason i think tiling is great for magnifiers is that the magnifier covers part of a maximised window, otherwise) [22:30] TheMuso: oh yeah, I had forgot that [22:42] Pendulum: I thought the blog was due this week, but it is not due until next week. I will try to get one out to you this weekend [22:43] charlie-tca: no worries [22:45] I want to include a half decent video of the screen reader install in the Daniela blog post [22:45] AlanBell: do that tomorrow? [22:45] hopefully [22:45] you saw my last attempt [22:46] I did fully install Natty today [22:47] Won't that install you wrote for the help wiki work with classic-gnome? [22:49] AlanBell: I suspect the only inaccessible part of the installer is the bits that use webkit. [22:51] I thought the installer worked fine, it is unity that takes work :-) [22:51] Oh and for oneiric, I have some ideas as to how we can make selecting an accessibility profile much easier. [22:52] As long as you start with unity, it works, anyway. It is when it switches to the other session, on the blind user, that it causes issues. [22:52] TheMuso: that would be nice, too [22:52]