[00:00] <coz_> BROWN?????
[00:00] <coz_> I like the button layout though
[00:01] <coz_> I definitly DONT like that damn stitcking look
[00:01] <coz_> stitching
[00:01] <coz_> hopefully that is not their default theme ,, right?
[00:02] <darkmatter> it  is (for ical). they're going technicolor. unified gui? wazzat? ;p
[00:03] <coz_> oh man they are really hard up for attention then :)
[00:04] <darkmatter> coz_: addresses.app: http://www.thegraphicmac.com/wp-content/uploads/mac_lion-screenshot.jpg
[00:05] <coz_> darkmatter,  definilty a bad decision
[00:05] <darkmatter> it's like being total random, only moreso ;)
[00:07] <coz_> darkmatter,  mm some developers making graphics decisions maybe???
[00:07] <darkmatter> coz_: I wonder if safari will be getting african tribal graphics? xD
[00:07] <coz_> lol
[00:07] <coz_> darkmatter,  well it sounds right lol
[00:09] <coz_> darkmatter,  mybe zebra stripes,, or  giragge spots ?
[00:09] <coz_> giraffe
[00:09] <coz_> mm
[00:09] <coz_> giraffe
[00:09] <darkmatter> coz_: I just think they're trying to kill steve. he'll get out of hospital, take one look at lion, and have a big ol' brain haemorrhage.
[00:09] <darkmatter> carefully orgestrated coup d'etat
[00:10] <coz_> :)
[00:11] <coz_> darkmatter,  oh he wont like the brown I am almost positive about that,, or he already had stoke and though it was pretty :)
[00:11] <darkmatter> haha
[00:11] <coz_> darkmatter,  I once  suggested an african theme for ubuntu,,, it was shot down immediately :)
[00:12] <darkmatter> lion has some nice features, but that gui work..... makes my eyes bleed
[00:13] <coz_> :)
[00:14] <darkmatter> coz_: best lion bit (and something I've been suggesting for *nix for the past decade), apps have timelines. which is nice (auto revisioning, remembers last state, lets you move back/forth through revisions)
[00:14] <coz_> darkmatter,  ooo,.. I could definitly use that
[00:15] <darkmatter> you never have to worry about loosing work/place. autosave and the like
[00:15] <darkmatter> not just at the session level
[00:17] <darkmatter> things like that are more important than eye-candy (and this comming from a designewr. lol. but design is more than patterns and graphics)
[00:17] <darkmatter> eeww... fingers failed
[00:17] <darkmatter> need neural implant so I can avoid typing :P
[00:18] <coz_> :)
[00:19] <coz_> I hope ivanka didnt quit because of us !
[00:19] <darkmatter> lol
[00:22] <darkmatter> coz_: and gnome3... eesh. I mean, overall it's ok, but the rush to simplify caused workflow/usability/accessibility fracturing I don't think they'll ever fully comprehend. I mean, even the missus (who loves shiny and doesn't really care about gui) works slower in it. plus the overlay is.. well... kinda cluttered
[00:23] <coz_> darkmatter,  ooo  I am a stickler for accessibility features being at the top of the list
[00:23] <coz_> darkmatter,  if accessibility features are broken ,, the project is a failure in my eyes
[00:24] <darkmatter> coz_: it's an area I feel both unity and shell suffer in. unity handles it (possibly) a bit better
[00:24] <darkmatter> coz_: and I'm not even talking accessibility from a11y, I'm just talking basic gui structuring
[00:25] <coz_> darkmatter,  yeah I am a bit concerned about them .. if touchscreen is working thats only part of  it,, but I hate Unity  so much I dont even run once a month now
[00:26] <darkmatter> I find the shells overlay... evil (as you know, I suffer from accessibility issues related to what is commonly called cognitive dysfunction, or in english "difficulty performing everyday tasks"), so accessibilty is a killer for me, both as a designer and at a personal level
[00:29] <darkmatter> shell is ok in terms of letting you focus on the focused app, but that's about it. it seems the main goal (just personal opinion mind you) off the new trend is web 2.0 so-shiny-even-magpies-can't-resist-it and not much else
[00:29] <darkmatter> of*
[00:30] <coz_> darkmatter,  understood,  and I agree,,  this makes them failures in my eyes,, I truly beleive that if accessibilty features in general and specific to ease of use  is not addressed first ,, it will eventually fail
[00:30] <darkmatter> both shell and unity fail in that regard, and it's not because they're "different"
[00:33] <coz_> darkmatter,  right,, they dont have the "perspective: that should go into creating these things,,, I do believe it is as you said,, a way of attracting users to the overall n
[00:33] <coz_> "neatness"  of it
[00:33] <darkmatter> coz_: I mean, first offial gnome3 video on the site is about how to drag to maximize (well, has on the snap thing too, but lets focus on maximize). If you need manuals/videos to teach basic functionality you're doing it wrong
[00:33] <coz_> lol
[00:41] <darkmatter> coz_: I still say we need 'live' icons instead of this one for launching, one for notifying, one for 'whatever' thing that is 'still' the norm. for example. I was thinking of going old scool "iconify apps to the workspace" (considering at least), now, what makes more sense, having yet-another-icon/<whatever> appear, or having all-in-one? say, email app has a mailbox for an icon, why not add mail into the slot, and maybe a count under
[00:41] <darkmatter>  it. why do we need a tray hear/indicator there/expose thing (like shells overlay) elsewhere? aside from system specific bits
[00:41] <coz_> darkmatter,  yeah I think you are going above my head now
[00:42] <darkmatter> pic a pattern and stick with it. you can have a popup/overlay thumb thingy if there is more than one window, but don't scatter bits across hells creation
[00:43] <coz_> darkmatter,  and I suppose any of the developers responisible didnt have nice things to say when you brought thing like this up !
[00:43] <darkmatter> coz_: basically. I want launchers/switches/etc all combined (_basically_ it would take an essay to precisely describe it)
[00:44] <darkmatter> coz_: depends, is silence a nice reply? :P
[00:44] <coz_> lol
[00:45] <coz_> darkmatter,  I have always though ,, rather  erroneously presumed,, that if my suggestions are followed by silence, I must be super right,, because they are speechless,,,in reality,,,, I think they are saying  "Damn I didnt think of that so therefore I will not respond to him"
[00:46] <darkmatter> see? I want things in plain site where I can see them while maintaining as much simplicity and efficiency as possible. if I have to _think_ of how to access something I'm doing it wrong :P
[00:46] <darkmatter> sight*
[00:46] <coz_> darkmatter,  yeah I understand,,
[00:49] <coz_> nature call,, be back later
[10:19] <coz_>   good day all
[12:29] <zniavre> good afternoon
[12:29] <zniavre> why nobody wants to fix the typo inside the gtk since at least 2 or more year ? > # Wrokaround style for places where the text color is used instead of the fg color.
[12:30] <zniavre> :o)
[16:56] <emma> Hey folks.
[16:56] <emma> do you guys know anything about the 'freedom' of fonts that come with ubuntu?
[16:58] <thorwil> emma: they have varying licenses, including the SIL Font License and the GPL with font exception
[17:01] <thorwil> emma: if you click a font file (in plain ubuntu/gnome, at least), the font viewer that comes up shows a description that will usually include a license notice
[17:07] <emma> thorwil: where are the font files located?
[17:08] <thorwil> emma: /usr/share/fonts
[17:11] <thorwil> emma: "Font Manager" or Fontmatrix may help with viewing and managing fonts. both available via Software Center
[17:12] <thorwil> the first might be more suitable for quick one-off use, the second is surely a good choice if you are _really_ interested in fonts
[17:50] <emma> thorwil: thanks
[17:52] <emma> Hm, im not sure what the Ubuntu font license is.
[17:52] <emma> thorwil: you seem very passionate about fonts.
[17:52] <emma> Id love to know how people even make fonts, and Id like to know the history of some of the best ones.
[17:56] <emma> hi ivanka
[17:58] <emma> thorwil: im looking at the ubuntu font license it seems to be talking about 'font software'. What I have in mind is using a font to create my own logo for my own purposes, is that okay you think?
[18:06] <emma> heya leoquant
[18:09] <ivanka> emma: hi
[18:09] <ivanka> emma: yes, that is perfectly ok
[18:44] <thorwil> emma: was away. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typeface seems to be a pretty good entry point
[18:49] <thorwil> regarding best ones, a good list: http://typophile.com/node/14634
[18:49] <coz_> hey all
[18:52] <thorwil> emma: when creating logo-types, starting with or tracing an existing font can be a good start, but i would always look for specific optimizations and perhaps a unique detail
[18:54] <thorwil> note that copyright on fonts is actually all about the files, the data, as the shapes themselves can not be copyrighted, usually (except if very fancy, perhaps)
[19:07] <emma> thorwil: yeah Im planing to take one of the fonts that comes with Ubuntu and then change it quite a bit for my own purposes but I wanted to be sure it wouldn't be a problem.
[19:20] <emma> oh hi dashua I didn't know you were here too.
[20:35] <dashua> emma, Hi, I'm omnipresent. :)
[20:36] <dashua> Almost as much as vish ;)
[21:12] <vish> dashua: ;p
[21:13] <dashua> Sup vish?
[21:13] <vish> dashua: nothing much, still on maverick.. and trying to build a compiz patch :D
[21:14] <dashua> Oh nice, man I didn't last long on Maverick
[21:14] <dashua> Maybe a month =/
[21:15] <dashua> What are you doing with Compiz?
[21:15] <vish> dashua: there's this annoying compiz and firefox bug, menus dont show up
[21:15] <vish> upstream has a patch, just building to test it..
[21:16] <vish> dashua: looks like you are back to fixing light-themes mode ;)
[21:16] <dashua> Hrm, oh man. I wouldn't have noticed that.  Chromium here.
[21:16] <dashua> Hehe yeah, got some time and motivation again
[21:17] <vish> dashua: do have firefox/thunderbird installed?
[21:17] <dashua> Yeah, both
[21:18] <vish> dashua: notice the insensitive menu items text? how do we get it to be black?
[21:18] <vish> (like the insensitive menu text from other apps)
[21:19] <dashua> Hrm, let me check
[21:20] <dashua> Oh, I see. It's grey now?
[21:20] <vish> yea,
[21:21] <dashua> Let me try some things.  FF is strange with GTK theming.  May have to specify something in the ff.rc
[21:24] <vish> ok, it is fg[INSENSITIVE] , but now i need to match it
[23:07] <dashua> vish, Get that fixed yet.  There is definitely a fix.  I need to mess with it.