/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/02/#ubuntu-uk.txt

hamitron	grrrr, locked out now for some reason	00:06
Azelphur	hamitron: debugging obsfucated code is fun :D	00:09
hamitron	:)	00:14
hamitron	sddfkljhsdaldfhnasdnkjn	01:05
HazRPG	hamitron: keyboard test?	01:05
hamitron	no, just in a bad mood	01:06
hamitron	was that or the mouse was gonna meet the wall	01:06
hamitron	just had cops round, so kinda hyped up	01:07
HazRPG	hamitron: :o! What happened?!	01:07
hamitron	sisters mobile is still registered at this address, and she had to phone the police because of her bf beating her (again)	01:08
HazRPG	seems someone was talking abut TuxGuitar earlier! I use that!	01:08
HazRPG	hamitron: ouch :(	01:08
hamitron	don't need them calling around, not even knowing the name of who called	01:08
hamitron	really high stress	01:09
HazRPG	can imagine!	01:09
hamitron	once they confirmed it was her, and we gave the other address, they won't even contact us to let us know she is safe	01:09
gordonjcp	hamitron: not wonderful	01:10
hamitron	lucky, this time he hadn't broken her phone	01:10
hamitron	so we could contact her	01:10
hamitron	but last time her phone was smashed and we were in the dark	01:10
hamitron	cba to fix my vps I broke now	01:11
hamitron	so just gonna try chill	01:11
HazRPG	hamitron: play starcraft 2 with me and my mate :D	02:26
hamitron	HazRPG: don't own it	02:31
hamitron	:)	02:31
hamitron	but ty for offer	02:31
hamitron	I got a trial key for steam, but it is a huge download	02:32
hamitron	so not bothered	02:32
HazRPG	hamitron: new xkcd is in 3D!!!!!	02:35
HazRPG	:o!!!!!!!!!	02:35
HazRPG	this is FREAKY!	02:35
hamitron	xkcd?	02:38
HazRPG	hamitron: .... your kidding right?	02:38
hamitron	no...	02:38
HazRPG	hamitron: hit it! http://xkcd.com	02:38
HazRPG	web comic for geeks :)	02:38
HazRPG	so epic!	02:39
hamitron	I am not a geek ;)	02:39
HazRPG	hamitron: lies ;)	02:40
hamitron	I just never got into all these "geek interests"	02:40
hamitron	tbh, I consider myself more of an engineer in general, than an IT guy	02:40
HazRPG	hamitron: then you'll love xkcd!	02:42
HazRPG	it has physic!	02:42
HazRPG	science!	02:42
HazRPG	IT stuffs!	02:42
hamitron	the time wasted reading comics, can be spent doing something useful	02:43
hamitron	the only problem is I tend to spend that time moaning instead	02:43
HazRPG	but... but...	02:43
HazRPG	well what are you doing now?	02:43
HazRPG	exactly!	02:43
HazRPG	hit the link :D	02:43
hamitron	installing ubuntu	02:43
hamitron	;/	02:43
HazRPG	hit it...	02:43
HazRPG	hittttt itttttt	02:43
hamitron	busy	02:47
hamitron	and off to bed soon	02:47
hamitron	considering getting the new IL-2 game coming out	02:47
hamitron	128 player online!	02:47
HazRPG	hamitron: get sc2 ;(	02:49
hamitron	I always played C&C more	02:51
hamitron	but lost interest in that series with all the DRM	02:51
HazRPG	coophi: finally!	03:25
coophi	oh hai	03:25
HazRPG	probably a good idea to register your nick now	03:26
HazRPG	if it isn't already	03:26
HazRPG	/msg nickserv help	03:26
coophi	told you it needed to drop the 'e' :P	03:27
HazRPG	I said yeah	03:28
HazRPG	eye roll	03:28
* HazRPG pokes hamitron, shauno to see if there is any activity		03:28
HazRPG	coophi: when was the last time your used irc?	03:30
HazRPG	coophi: in fact... what was the last client for irc you use to use dude?	03:31
coophi	lol LOOONG time ago	03:31
coophi	the name escapes me.. it was the javascript one for a-eng though	03:31
HazRPG	8-)	03:32
coophi	i never used the client coz i was never logged into it when i was at home	03:32
HazRPG	heh	03:32
HazRPG	I use to use mIRC back in 1998	03:32
HazRPG	coophi: do a whois on me	03:37
HazRPG	how does one go about getting a mask on irc again? (other than via tunnels, vps, etc)	03:53
szymon_g	hi	04:37
szymon_g	good morning!	04:37
coophi	mornin ^^	04:38
HazRPG	szymon_g: sup dude	04:41
szymon_g	wassup ;)	04:41
szymon_g	hm... that unity is quite nice btw	04:41
szymon_g	i've installed it yesterday, seems to be ok	04:42
szymon_g	(apart from fact, that when i've resumed from hibernation, all side icons were gone)	04:42
HazRPG	still in alpha/beta	04:42
HazRPG	check to see if there's a bug :)	04:42
HazRPG	if not, file one! \o/	04:43
szymon_g	hm... i didn't even know where to report it. anyway- it works fine now. and i thought Unity is stable now? /ubuntu 10.10/	04:44
HazRPG	unity 2D is stable	04:54
HazRPG	Unity 3D (aka the one being created for narwal 11.04) isn't yet	04:55
HazRPG	when I say unity 2D, I mean the one that's been used on the netbook editions of ubuntu for a while	04:55
HazRPG	szymon_g: btw, bugs get filed here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity	04:57
HazRPG	if you look on there, unity is far from stable	04:58
HazRPG	slowly getting there though	04:58
HazRPG	szymon_g: does this sound about right: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/609472	05:03
lubotu3	Ubuntu bug 609472 in unity (Ubuntu) "After resume, all the launcher icons are white boxes" [Medium,Triaged]	05:03
szymon_g	yeap, thats that	05:10
szymon_g	thanx HazRPG lubotu3	05:10
HazRPG	hehe lubotu3 automatically just repeats any bug numbers to tell you what the bug is	05:10
HazRPG	try typing the bug number and you'll see what I mean	05:11
szymon_g	... ;)	05:11
szymon_g	609472	05:12
szymon_g	... :\|	05:12
* szymon_g has to go to bed		05:12
szymon_g	se ya!	05:12
szymon_g	*see ya	05:12
HazRPG	hmm	05:28
HazRPG	#609472	05:28
HazRPG	random...	05:28
shauno	mornin	05:32
coophi	yo ^^	05:36
AlanBell	morning all	07:03
MartijnVdS	\o	07:03
AlanBell	I need to go trash my car now	07:03
coophi	sleepy time	07:04
HazRPG	AlanBell: trash it why?	07:21
HazRPG	also, mornin' guys :)	07:22
HazRPG	MartijnVdS: o/	07:22
MartijnVdS	morning HazRPG	07:26
HazRPG	how's it going?	07:28
MartijnVdS	Just woke up.. reading some of Linus' rants on LKML	07:28
MartijnVdS	("RAAAH ARM MAINTAINERS")	07:28
HazRPG	lol	07:29
MartijnVdS	HazRPG: https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/3/17/492 (not family-safe, maybe)	07:29
MartijnVdS	(it _is_ a Linus rant)	07:29
HazRPG	xD	07:33
HazRPG	even linus himself gets pi**ed off ;)	07:34
MartijnVdS	HazRPG: often	07:34
HazRPG	heh	07:34
HazRPG	good reasons for I'm guessing though	07:34
MartijnVdS	yes, but there are other ways of getting your point across	07:35
HazRPG	its one thing to release your code, and its another thing to release and find many people trying to screw it up	07:35
HazRPG	I agree though, but its funny xD	07:35
MartijnVdS	Shouting obscenities works.. but people will remember just the obscenities.	07:35
HazRPG	didn't realise you subbed to lkml	07:36
HazRPG	any reason for ? Or just generally nosey at what's happening in the community?	07:37
MartijnVdS	I don't	07:37
MartijnVdS	But some of those "shouting matches" get posted to reddit :)	07:37
HazRPG	ah	07:37
HazRPG	lol	07:37
HazRPG	is reddit actually any good?	07:38
MartijnVdS	shauno: http://i.imgur.com/z5cDb.jpg	07:38
MartijnVdS	HazRPG: it's a great time sink (beware)	07:39
HazRPG	every time I look at it, it just looks like another digg to me	07:39
shauno	oh dear	07:39
HazRPG	shauno: he awakens!	07:39
HazRPG	\o/	07:39
HazRPG	guessing you weren't on the night shift last night then	07:40
MartijnVdS	But some of those "shouting matches" get posted to reddit :)	07:44
MartijnVdS	uhm	07:44
MartijnVdS	http://hurrdurr.it/#url=http://www.ubuntu-uk.org	07:44
Jibadeeha	upnp support in rhythmbox sucks	07:45
HazRPG	MartijnVdS: this is better :) http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/albuquerque	07:47
gordonjcp	Jibadeeha: s/upnp support in //	07:48
gordonjcp	ftfy	07:48
Jibadeeha	lol	07:48
MartijnVdS	HazRPG: I know the lyrics. All of them.	07:49
HazRPG	MartijnVdS: :P same	07:49
MartijnVdS	Hey mom, what's up with all the sauerkraut?	07:49
HazRPG	wacka wacka doo doo yeahhhhhhhhh	07:49
HazRPG	MartijnVdS: You got any jelly doughnuts?	07:52
MartijnVdS	HazRPG: No, we're out of jelly doughnuts.	07:52
shauno	that'd explain why it's doritos for breakfast	07:53
HazRPG	MartijnVdS: You got any Bavarian cream filled doughnuts?	07:53
HazRPG	shauno: \o/	07:54
MartijnVdS	HazRPG: No, we're out of Bavarian cream filled doughnuts!	07:54
HazRPG	shauno: I had the half a burger for breakfast from last night, technically... lol	07:54
HazRPG	MartijnVdS: Cinnamon rolls?	07:55
MartijnVdS	No	07:55
HazRPG	MartijnVdS: apple fritters!?	07:55
* MartijnVdS goes check		07:55
HazRPG	:P	07:57
MartijnVdS	"Besides, now he's got a really cute nickname: Torsoboy"	07:58
AlanBell	everyone Jamming later?	08:05
HazRPG	Jamming?	08:06
MartijnVdS	global jamming	08:06
shauno	and I hope you like jamming too	08:06
HazRPG	insert bob marley song here	08:07
HazRPG	AlanBell: hmm, is there something for the whole day? (looks at email again)	08:12
AlanBell	there are sessions at various random times	08:13
AlanBell	but I think we will take a pirates code approach to the timetable	08:14
AlanBell	tis more of a guideline than an actual law. Arrrrrrr	08:14
HazRPG	heh :P	08:14
HazRPG	just lookin' at the 10AM stuff	08:14
HazRPG	I think I have most of that down by now	08:15
HazRPG	minus maybe the wiki personal page	08:15
AlanBell	yeah, we put that one up front to help people get started	08:15
AlanBell	oh, well perfect, you can do that bit then	08:15
HazRPG	I keep meaning to!	08:15
HazRPG	I just never know how to describe myself >_<	08:15
HazRPG	or etc	08:16
AlanBell	fine, getting over hurdles like that is exactly what this is about	08:18
HazRPG	willy_1977: you'll need to drag yourself into the main channel ("Global Jam") otherwise no one will here you	08:51
willy_1977	oh, has it connected now...	08:51
willy_1977	it was doing it's thing this end for ages ;)	08:52
willy_1977	thanks HazRPG	08:52
HazRPG	willy_1977: no problem :)	08:52
willy_1977	nope client crash :(	08:52
HazRPG	willy_1977: alt. you can double-click on "global jam" and it'll do the same effect :)	08:52
willy_1977	some weird stuff going on here, so will reboot and be back shortly ;)	08:53
HazRPG	AlanBell: isn't there a way to make a channel the default one?	08:53
HazRPG	willy_1977: no problem :)	08:53
HazRPG	AlanBell: I'm not sure how you've set it up, but this is one way of doing it: http://mumble.sourceforge.net/MurmurCL#Setting_a_default_channel	08:55
HazRPG	AlanBell: Just found an alternative to that method, depending on how you've setup mumble (either to use sqlite as the database, etc)... you just need to change/add the records in the "config" table as: server_id = 1; key = "defaultchannel"; value = id_number_of_channel (should be 0);	09:09
HazRPG	I use an sqlite browser to add/remove stuff in mine, however I'm sure there's a terminal tool for the same job	09:10
HazRPG	just food for thought, since I'm sure the whole channel thing might be confusing to some	09:11
HazRPG	heh, I'm use to doing this in windows	09:18
HazRPG	managed to find the database though, its found in /var/lib/mumble-server/mumble-server.sqlite	09:19
willy_1977	don't you hate it when you've had something working perfectly well and then on the day when you need it...	09:23
HazRPG	yup!	09:24
willy_1977	mumble - All I have is an unresponsive app after hitting connect (I've tried both hostnames)	09:24
willy_1977	ok, time to think logically I guess :)	09:25
HazRPG	check the port number :)	09:25
HazRPG	hang on, it says your in channel though	09:25
willy_1977	hmmmm...	09:26
HazRPG	did you hear anything just then?	09:26
willy_1977	nope...	09:26
HazRPG	port number is: 64738	09:27
HazRPG	btw	09:27
willy_1977	Should have gone now?	09:28
HazRPG	yeah	09:28
willy_1977	hmm interesting mumble was going fine but the gui is getting hung up on itself...	09:29
HazRPG	try removing it and installing it again	09:29
willy_1977	will do - next on the list... it seems to get caught up when trying to sort SSL out...	09:30
HazRPG	didn't realise it did SSL stuff	09:31
HazRPG	willy_1977: might also be worth adding the ppa for the latest version of mumble (1.2.3) which is the version I'm running on	09:32
willy_1977	I think this is going to install 1.2.3-1ubuntu6 (mumble)	09:33
HazRPG	hmm	09:33
HazRPG	didn't realise they'd updated it on the ubuntu repo	09:34
HazRPG	the one I'm rolling with is 1.2.3-1~ppa~maverick1 (mumble)	09:34
HazRPG	although both sound similar	09:34
willy_1977	true, I'll see if this works... if it does I may have been a complete numpty... more to follow on that if so :)	09:35
HazRPG	:P	09:35
HazRPG	right I'm going to scavenge some food from the kitchen somewhere	09:36
HazRPG	bbl	09:36
willy_1977	kk	09:36
HazRPG	oh, btw, says your on the server again (just thought I'd let you know)	09:36
willy_1977	thanks... flipping thing...	09:37
AlanBell	morning all	09:59
willy_1977	morning, still having mumble issues here :(	10:07
AlanBell	just restarting the mumble server to give it more memory and a default channel	10:11
willy_1977	Ok, I think I'm having issues with my firewall etc. tbh.	10:11
AlanBell	ok, we can get that sorted	10:11
willy_1977	*routers firewall	10:12
willy_1977	some noncey firmware on there that I haven't figured out yet...	10:12
* danfish will be joining in later - the normal Saturday morning kids stuff first ;)		10:12
AlanBell	willy_1977: ok, so you need to get outbound TCP access to the default mumble port	10:13
willy_1977	AlanBell: yep, so far I can open a set range of ports e.g. ssh, telnet etc. but there doesn't seem to be anywhere to add services / ports :(	10:14
willy_1977	I'm not quite sure what's changed because as you know it was working the other night.	10:14
AlanBell	willy_1977: on most domestic routers outbound ports should be open anyway	10:14
willy_1977	:/	10:14
willy_1977	ah, ok, so is it just outbound it needs then?	10:15
AlanBell	yup	10:18
willy_1977	hmmm maybe then my suspicions on firewall were incorrect	10:18
AlanBell	port 64738, but it shouldn't be an issue	10:18
HazRPG	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HazRPG	10:22
willy_1977	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeeWilliams is me... ;)	10:23
HazRPG	\o/	10:23
willy_1977	yeah I've been meaning to ask what does \o/ mean then?	10:25
Daviey	willy_1977, What version of ubuntu are you using?	10:26
AlanBell	person waving both hands in the air	10:26
AlanBell	o/ <- waving one hand	10:26
willy_1977	AlanBell: thought as much	10:26
willy_1977	Daviey: 11.04	10:26
Daviey	willy_1977, Ah... are you fully up to date on updates?	10:27
willy_1977	thought I was, will check now.	10:27
Daviey	I found mumble unusable for months under Natty... only recently has it worked better with the UI.	10:28
* willy_1977 fetches coat		10:28
willy_1977	I'm beginning to doubt myself a little then :) but I could've sworn it was working on 11.04 the other night...	10:29
Daviey	There was a known, "minimize and lose it forever" issue aswell.	10:29
Daviey	jamespage, here for the JAM? :)	10:36
* willy_1977 we're jammin'		10:37
Daviey	jamespage1, here for the JAM? :)	10:37
AlanBell	oops, did I break the server?	10:37
HazRPG	AlanBell: seems that way!	10:38
willy_1977	I've just had a automatic bug report come through when exiting the update-manager gui , it appears to have been logged before is there anyway I can attach my info to that bug, i.e. does the auto reporting tool store it's reports and if so where?	10:46
AlanBell	Hi all, we are now moving on to sorting out the wiki pages http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ListOfUKTeamPages	10:55
brobostigon	good morning everyone.	10:55
brobostigon	sorry i am late.	10:56
HazRPG	brobostigon: good morning :)	10:56
brobostigon	HazRPG: goodmorning, :)	10:56
brobostigon	let mefire mumble up.	10:56
HazRPG	sure :)	10:57
HazRPG	Update my wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HazRPG	10:58
MartijnVdS	HazRPG: You should add "Future plans for Ubuntu: Remove unity"	11:10
HazRPG	xD	11:10
brobostigon	MartijnVdS: or, replace with gnome3. :)	11:14
MartijnVdS	brobostigon: or that.	11:15
MartijnVdS	For now, I'm sticking to classic	11:15
MartijnVdS	♥ panels	11:15
brobostigon	:)	11:17
* jacobw likes Unity		11:33
=== gary_ is now known as Guest39961
HazRPG	agrees ♥ panels :)	11:38
HazRPG	classic ftw	11:38
MartijnVdS	HazRPG: Stuff you have done -- set up an IPv6 tunnel ;)	11:41
HazRPG	:P	11:41
HazRPG	ta :)	11:41
brobostigon	setup ipv6 routing.	11:42
MartijnVdS	that as well	11:42
brobostigon	setup a radvd,whatever description fits.	11:42
brobostigon	addr advertising ?	11:42
HazRPG	yeah :)	11:43
HazRPG	updated, how does that look :)	11:45
brobostigon	HazRPG: let me check, oneminute.	11:54
brobostigon	HazRPG: looks good, :)	11:59
HazRPG	brobostigon: thanks :)	12:00
brobostigon	HazRPG: :)	12:02
brobostigon	HazRPG: youre welcome.	12:02
HazRPG	https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/743486	12:14
lubotu3	Ubuntu bug 743486 in calibre "library/server/ doesn't listen on ipv6" [Undecided,Fix released]	12:14
Daviey	HazRPG, Have you undergone the HE 'tasks'?	12:17
HazRPG	Daviey: erm...? The tests?	12:18
HazRPG	if so, then yeah :)	12:18
Daviey	HazRPG, http://ipv6.he.net/certification/	12:19
HazRPG	I certainly have :)	12:19
HazRPG	http://ipv6.he.net/certification/scoresheet.php?pass_name=hazrpg	12:19
HazRPG	Daviey: guessing you saw my blog post :)	12:29
Daviey	HazRPG, yeah.. glad to see you used HE, rather than Sixxs	12:30
HazRPG	Daviey: I tried Sixxs a year or two ago, and well... I didn't like it, simply put	12:30
HazRPG	even tried miredo (ubuntu) and teredo (win machine) a few years back	12:32
MartijnVdS	So sixxs still have the uptime rules?	12:32
HazRPG	I think so	12:33
Daviey	HazRPG, I really disliked sixxs for being complete asses. :)	12:33
* Daviey explains verbally.		12:33
brobostigon	sixxs dont have uptime rules with the way i connect ti them,	12:37
DJones	Yay, new laptop arrived and a live usb of natty works nicely on it	12:41
sagaci	anyone around that's worked in translations for 3+ cycles?	12:42
HazRPG	Daviey: apparently tee's go out in batches I've been informed	12:42
Daviey	ahh	12:42
Daviey	HazRPG, I guess i should do my glue stuff then.	12:42
HazRPG	Daviey: indeed :)	12:42
penguin42	hi from u^3 in Manchester	12:47
HazRPG	penguin42: howdy :D	12:47
DJones	Now to create recovery discs for win7, free up some space & install ubuntu	12:48
MartijnVdS	penguin42: U³	12:49
MartijnVdS	Not U96 or U235	12:49
HazRPG	DJones: hurrah \o/	12:49
MartijnVdS	HazRPG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwc0shJ2aYc	12:49
HazRPG	MartijnVdS: that is random xD	12:50
MartijnVdS	No, that's U96 :)	12:50
HazRPG	Daviey: hopefully my blog post will help some others curious about ipv6	12:53
* willy1977 is just setting a few more things up...		13:11
HazRPG	\o/	13:20
HazRPG	for vnc n stuff	13:20
willy1977	have got further it's asking me for a password for registered users?	13:22
willy1977	*mumble I mean :)	13:22
HazRPG	hmm	13:22
HazRPG	as far as I know... there isn't one	13:23
brobostigon	agreed, there isnt.	13:23
willy1977	what's the url for the mumble server then? in case I've got the wrong one?	13:23
HazRPG	mumble.libertus.co.uk	13:23
HazRPG	port 64738	13:24
willy1977	http://virt-manager.et.redhat.com/page/StorageManagement	13:36
DJones	Almost ready to install ubuntu, should I go with 32 or 64 bit & 10.10 or 11.04 beta, decisions, decisions ...., its nice to have to make decisions like this	13:39
sagaci	DJones, probably 10.10 but you'll probably want to reinstall 11.04 in a month's time	13:41
DJones	sagaci: Just been trying 11.04, unity is going to take some getting used to	13:42
DJones	sagaci: I can do some bug testing as well, although I could do 10.10 and then try 11.04 in a vm	13:44
sagaci	DJones, you can fallback to gnome 2.32.x	13:44
DJones	I've seen that, must admit I normally install/update once they hit beta, so I'll probably go with natty as the main install, now I've got a decent machine it'll be good to see what its capeable of	13:46
sagaci	just expect hitches	13:48
Daviey	HazRPG, yeah, it was a good blog post!	13:48
AlanBell	anyone else want to come and join in our Natty install over VNC?	13:52
AlanBell	vncviewer libertushost1.libertus.co.uk:5906	13:52
AlanBell	password is ubuntuuk	13:53
AlanBell	and join the mumble thing to talk about it as we go	13:53
AlanBell	the idea is to file bugs against the installer	13:53
JR0cket	I had a problem with the install when I checked the "Install this third-party software" - install did not complete	13:55
AlanBell	next session is at 16:00 going through the Natty install with the screenreader option and filing bugs	14:32
* BigRedS claims that inistence upon swap partition is a bug		14:44
shauno	does it actually demand one now? I thought it used to just pop up a warning making sure you know what you're doing	14:47
BigRedS	yeah, it warns, but it makes it sound like it's a terribly bad idea	14:51
willy1977	is it a terribly bad idea?	14:51
popey	yes	14:51
popey	:)	14:51
BigRedS	I think it should just ask how big a swap file you want somewhere along the way. I completely don't get the obsession with separate partitions for swap	14:51
BigRedS	especially since we don't put anything else in separate partitions by default, and swap gains the least from being on its own	14:52
popey	where would you put the swap file?	14:52
willy1977	ahhh... swap partition/file = virtual memory I see!	14:52
penguin42	popey: /	14:52
BigRedS	Personally, probably just in /. That's where mine are	14:52
shauno	the idea always was that swap actually does gain a lot from being one contiguous region	14:53
BigRedS	I don't know if thre's a fhs opinion on it or something	14:53
shauno	swapd could be an interesting option one day. it doesn't seem to react fast enough when things go wrong tho	14:54
BigRedS	shauno: it is as a file, too; it's a contiguous file.	14:54
penguin42	it's probably still the case that swap on a separate partition is faster; I'm also not sure the magic in hibernation	14:55
popey	penguin42: its not	14:55
BigRedS	Popular opinion seems to be that on a separate opinion 'makes sense' for some reson, as far as easily seeing what's going on	14:56
BigRedS	But I think that, especially for new desktop users, everything-in-one-partition would be a handy thing to be able to do	14:57
BigRedS	(and I suspect the seeing what's going on argument is based on the tradition of having a swap partiton)	14:57
popey	it does make sense for people who upgrade RAM	14:57
popey	who want/have to resize their swap space	14:58
popey	although, i believe they're toying with the idea of hiding the hibernate option entirely in natty	14:58
popey	because it's slow and rarely works	14:58
BigRedS	I don't think I've ever resized a swap file, I suspect it's non-trivial (but the non-trivia can be done all behind the scenes)	14:58
BigRedS	yeah, resuming from hibernate takes longer than a cold boot	14:59
willy1977	hibernation is for bears...	14:59
popey	hah	14:59
BigRedS	hahaha	14:59
gord	as long as the swap file doesn't dynamicly grow/shrink (except in explicit cases like memory size changing) i'v always felt that it makes more sense over a fixed partition	14:59
willy1977	no matter the OS it's just painful in my experience anyhow...	15:00
BigRedS	yeah, I thought it was unique to Linux, but then I tried it on a windows box and that was even worse	15:01
BigRedS	I was happy :)	15:01
gord	i have to use an sd card as a swap parition on this netbook, because you can't change the partition layout in order to create a swap partition inside it :(	15:01
* BigRedS wanders off to file a wishlist bug		15:01
BigRedS	argh. One day I'll get the hang of launchpad	15:03
BigRedS	is Ubiquity the name of the installer?	15:04
shauno	I'm not sure you can resize a swap file. swapoff filename, change the filesize (however you like), mkswap & swapon it	15:05
hamitron	is there not less overhead having the swap on a partition, because it is formated accordingly?	15:05
popey	a swapfile is formatted accordingly internally	15:05
hamitron	yeh, but it must still use ext4 or whatever the filesystem is?	15:06
hamitron	it is like 2 layers of filesystems	15:06
gord	the only additional overhead from a swapfile over a swap partition is potential fragmentation, otherwise after the first stat and file open, there is no additional overhead	15:06
popey	arguably it shouldn't matter	15:07
popey	you shouldn't be using it	15:07
BigRedS	hamitron: no, the kernel doesn't use the fs	15:07
hamitron	so how does ext fs know where each section of a file is?	15:07
BigRedS	http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/7/7/326	15:08
BigRedS	is the most succinct an explanation I've found.	15:08
willy1977	so the has it's own map of the swap file locations etc.?	15:09
willy1977	*the kernel	15:09
BigRedS	yeah	15:10
BigRedS	it accesses it essentially as it does a swap partition	15:10
willy1977	that was nice and concise ;)	15:10
hamitron	so in theory, a larger swap will mean using more memory?	15:10
hamitron	on a linear relationship	15:10
BigRedS	no?	15:11
willy1977	I'd have thought you'd just need a start / end location address?	15:11
willy1977	or similar	15:11
BigRedS	yeah, assuming it's contiguous	15:11
BigRedS	I suppose that if it's not you'd need a start and offset for each fragment	15:12
hamitron	so a heavily fragmented would	15:13
hamitron	if that is how it is done	15:13
BigRedS	yeah, which is why you create the file at install time, or at least on a very young system	15:13
willy1977	yup, and if you have to add to it, that's when the irk begins (which BigRedS mentioned could be done behind the scenes :/)	15:13
hamitron	think I'll just stick to a partition, easier	15:14
hamitron	:/	15:14
shauno	two answers there. either don't add to it (you can create a second swapfile & use both), or fix the cause instead of the symptom, and find out why you've living in swap	15:14
BigRedS	It just seems dumb that we've already moved all the other traditionally-separate-partitions onto the same as /, but the one with little technical merit in being separate is still an additional partiton	15:15
gord	creating a second swap file and using both is fragmentating ;)	15:15
BigRedS	shauno: the current argument for having swap at all is generally hibernation	15:15
hamitron	BigRedS: you don't have seperate partitions?	15:15
willy1977	and we've already established hiberantion is the devil.	15:15
shauno	trying to expand an existing file is going to be fragmented too	15:15
hamitron	is it sane to have no swap?	15:16
BigRedS	hamitron: I do, but IIRC the installer defaults to most-in-one if not all-in-one?	15:16
hamitron	then you have no swap fragmentation	15:16
hamitron	;)	15:16
BigRedS	hamitron: yeah, generally if you're using swap you've problems outside of the efficiency of swap	15:16
shauno	I think a second swapfile on a lower priority would be saner than fragmenting your only swapfile	15:16
BigRedS	and you should be fixing those rathe rthan optimising swap	15:16
popey	depends on your definition of "using swap"	15:17
BigRedS	yeah, and what the system is doing	15:17
gord	shauno, actually no, if your using ext4 or such and just swapoff , make new larger swap file, swap on, you should be fine. its clever enough	15:17
popey	using could mean "space allocated" or "blocks in/out per second"	15:17
hamitron	blocks in/out is what matters	15:17
BigRedS	gord: is that intelligence in ext4 or in mkswap?	15:18
shauno	ext4 isn't clever at all :/ it just contains the fragmentation to roughly the same physically area of the disk	15:18
gord	BigRedS, ext4 - using extents	15:18
gord	if you say "i want a file and it will be this size" then it'll find the largest free space to put it in to avoid fragmentation	15:19
hamitron	too complex	15:20
hamitron	:/	15:20
hamitron	KISS and use a seperate partition	15:20
hamitron	;)	15:20
hamitron	or drive	15:21
hamitron	how good is ext4 when you run low on free space then?	15:25
shauno	I'm not sure anything's good when you run low on disk :/	15:26
hamitron	hehe	15:26
hamitron	that explains why I always hurt then	15:26
hamitron	I do try to store data on a different partition though	15:27
hamitron	I refuse to budge from some old habbits	15:28
hamitron	seperate /boot too :/	15:28
hamitron	not even sure if there is any advantage for the boot partition now	15:28
hamitron	just stops me getting greedy with the number of kernels I keep installed :)	15:29
* brobostigon prods pitivi, ormight have to resort to using blender.		15:32
* penguin421 yaawwwnns		15:39
gord	brobostigon, does pitivi still not work well?	15:40
shauno	hamitron: given your love for older machines, /boot may still be useful for you. iirc it was a trick to make sure kernels lived without a given cylinder boundary from when harddrives were growing faster than bioses	15:41
shauno	er, *live within	15:41
brobostigon	gord: very badly. yes.	15:42
hamitron	before the 1024th	15:42
hamitron	yeh	15:42
popey	gord: doesnt work at all for video from mant video cameras	15:42
hamitron	redhat 6.0 was fine with LBA32 passed to lilo though	15:42
* brobostigon uses blender insted, and gives up on pitivi		15:43
hamitron	when you get kernel updates in ubuntu, does it automatically ask to remove the older ones eventually?	15:44
popey	no	15:44
hamitron	so what happens to a newb who doesn't know there is even such a thing as a kernel?	15:45
matti	hamitron: He goes on the Internet and educate himself to the ranks of Jedi Master.	15:46
matti	;]	15:46
directhex	hamitron, computer janitor will remove old kernels.	15:46
gord	ugh that sucks	15:47
hamitron	:))	15:47
brobostigon	what is normal dvd framerate?	15:50
hamitron	anyways, I'm gonna go do something useful, rather than look for problems that don't affect me	15:50
popey	the issues done affect the newb user	15:51
popey	newb users aren't tainted with legacy ways like creating /boot partitions	15:51
brobostigon	a fresh unbiased mind.	15:51
hamitron	I was thinking more having 500mb used with old kernels	15:52
hamitron	;)	15:52
popey	500MB is not worth thinking about	15:53
hamitron	:-o	15:53
hamitron	mr popey is wasteful	15:53
hamitron	;/	15:53
popey	hardly	15:53
hamitron	500mb is huge	15:53
popey	/dev/sda5 207G 138G 59G 71% /	15:54
popey	i wouldn't notice	15:54
penguin421	filling up /boot can be a real problem	15:55
matti	/dev/sda1 251M 47M 192M 20% /boot	15:55
shauno	I don't believe the installer recommends a /boot anymore? so it's only a problem if you opt for it :)	15:56
popey	exactly	15:57
matti	I don't see a reason to keep bazillion old kernels. Current and previous is probably sensible.	15:57
hamitron	could be a problem for something with a 160gb hard drive and 150gb of data	15:57
matti	shauno: Not everyone does what installer recommends ;p	15:57
hamitron	that 500mb is just....	15:57
popey	delete stuff	15:58
popey	don't be a hoarder	15:58
hamitron	or you could delete unused kernels	15:59
shauno	matti: understood :) I just figure if you tell the installer you know better, then you gotta follow thru on that	15:59
hamitron	maybe under some "system clean" or something	15:59
shauno	that's what janitor is	15:59
hamitron	where is that?	15:59
shauno	(insert someone who uses gnome here)	16:00
shauno	:)	16:00
brobostigon	i have about 6 or 7 unused kernel on my eeepc right now, as i am experimenting with different kernel versions, for the gpu lockup/hang bug.	16:00
matti	shauno: Janitor is -- in my opinion -- dangerous.	16:00
shauno	matti: purging old kernels automatically isn't very safe either. it's sane to keep trusted kernels around during upgrades. it's less easy for the updater to evaluate 'trusted'	16:01
directhex	2.6.37 is evil! purge 2.6.37!	16:01
AlanBell	going to start the screen reader install shortly	16:01
matti	shauno: With things like dkms and other bits with do magic after you upgrade / downgrade the kernel.	16:02
brobostigon	AlanBell: sorry, i wont be able to be there, i have things to sort out here,	16:02
matti	shauno: A lot of things may break when you fall-back to previous kernel.	16:02
matti	shauno: Binary closed source drivers are a good example.	16:02
popey	they do?	16:03
hamitron	I don't think automatic removel is good either, but some popup on reboot after kernel upgrade maybe?	16:03
popey	yeah, would be nice if it kept a track of successful reboots	16:03
shauno	they shouldn't :/ I'd expect dkms to put the new modules in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/, leaving previous versions untouched	16:03
popey	and figured "You haven't used 2.6.old for 6 months, shall i remove it?"	16:04
matti	shauno: That is not always the case.	16:04
hamitron	exactly popey	16:04
matti	shauno: I guess incremental kernel updates from mainstream Ubuntu are fine.	16:04
hamitron	kernel tracker	16:04
matti	shauno: But when you have something older and/or custom ... then things get messy.	16:05
shauno	so if I install a new kernel, device x no longer functions as expected, I can't trust rolling back to the previous kernel to be a sane option?	16:06
matti	shauno: It works in 90% of cases. But when it breaks you have to manually fix it.	16:07
matti	shauno: But, being up to date, and running recent Ubuntu is probably not a problem...	16:07
matti	shauno: I have older system, and things do break a lot. Especially when they back-port ...	16:08
matti	Hah ;]	16:08
hamitron	"Hah"? ;)	16:10
hamitron	that just sounds childish :D	16:10
matti	hamitron: Hehe.	16:10
matti	hamitron: I am not really a grown up ;p	16:10
* matti is running 9.10 ...		16:11
matti	I guess this makes me quite out of date?	16:11
matti	;/	16:11
hamitron	ATI drivers?	16:11
matti	No, Ubuntu release.	16:11
hamitron	why run 9.10?	16:11
MartijnVdS	That makes you OLD :)	16:11
hamitron	even I am upgrading to 10.04 now, and I am a stick in the mud	16:11
hamitron	;/	16:12
matti	It does not look like 9.10 any more.	16:12
matti	I have custom most of the things.	16:12
screen-x	afternoon :)	16:12
hamitron	how long does it have security updates?	16:12
matti	MartijnVdS: I guess so.	16:12
hamitron	or does it?	16:12
hamitron	;/	16:12
matti	hamitron: I back-port when needed.	16:12
hamitron	so what is your reason?	16:12
matti	hamitron: I also have custom kernel.	16:13
matti	hamitron: I can't be asked to put all these customizations back after new fresh install.	16:13
matti	hamitron: It took me some time to get my notebook working as I like.	16:13
matti	hamitron: Purely because I never have the time to do it.	16:14
matti	hamitron: Keep posponing upgrades to ... "Maybe next week..." ;p	16:14
hamitron	I understand that feeling	16:14
hamitron	but that is why I use LTS releases ;)	16:15
matti	hamitron: But then you want something more recent...	16:15
matti	hamitron: So you mix and match and hack'n'slash things.	16:15
shauno	you're stuck on 9.10? LTS _is_ more recent	16:15
MartijnVdS	slightly	16:16
matti	hamitron: And then you realise that it will be hard to port all of this onto something new ;p	16:16
matti	shauno: Me or hamitron?	16:16
* matti either builds his own or gets things from Squeeze.		16:16
hamitron	matti: i'd have still put the effort into getting upto 10.04, then good for 3 years	16:16
brobostigon	matti: so debian stable?	16:17
hamitron	debian is hardly modern ;)	16:17
matti	brobostigon: That is hard to say ;p	16:17
hamitron	but I suppose, that is best thing about linux as a whole, you can do wtf you want	16:18
brobostigon	matti: :)	16:18
matti	brobostigon: I cannot really put what I've done under a common umbrella ;]	16:18
matti	hamitron: Precisely ;]	16:18
hamitron	still think you are crazy ;)	16:18
brobostigon	matti: i know what you mean, after abasic cli install, i play about with things alot.	16:18
matti	hamitron: :P	16:19
matti	hamitron: I have my Mattinux, I guess.	16:19
hamitron	dull, matt like	16:19
hamitron	;D	16:19
brobostigon	matti: my natty install, is pretty much a botch between standerd natty and gnome3 and a few other bit and pieces.	16:20
matti	Pfff ;p	16:20
hamitron	!natty	16:20
lubotu3	Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04, due April 28 2011. Help and support (only) in #ubuntu+1. Natty is unstable and is not intended for production systems.	16:20
matti	brobostigon: :)	16:20
hamitron	that is kinda new	16:20
hamitron	:)	16:20
brobostigon	hamitron: i agree, i lived with debian sid/unstable for quite a while, so this is little risk compared,	16:21
hamitron	yeh :)	16:23
hamitron	well, I am still on debian 5.0	16:23
hamitron	;)	16:23
AlanBell	bug 748352	16:23
lubotu3	Launchpad bug 748352 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "broken partial network manager icon at top of screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748352	16:23
dutchie	i see that occasionally	16:26
dutchie	i think	16:26
dutchie	oh no, i see something completely different	16:26
AlanBell	bug 748359	16:26
lubotu3	Launchpad bug 748359 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Londo (Congo, Democratic Republic of The (general), Democratic Republic of the Congo) repeated three times in location listing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748359	16:26
AlanBell	bug 748361	16:28
lubotu3	Launchpad bug 748361 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "firefox not default browser when clicking links in installer slideshow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748361	16:28
penguin421	oh that one is fun	16:37
Myrtti	what an epic day	16:41
AlanBell	in what way Myrtti?	16:42
Myrtti	lovely dreams during the night, then a bus ride to my apartment, there was British stuff being sold at the market and I got some nice stuff from there, then went to the nice food shop and got some salmon and rice for dindins, now I've got nice British tea in a nice British cuppa and saucer, nice vanilla pretzel with British lemon & ginger curd, watching Midsomer Murders on my lappy	16:44
Myrtti	I can almost imagine being in UK now	16:44
Myrtti	luvly	16:44
AlanBell	so can I :)	16:44
AlanBell	when do you come back?	16:44
Myrtti	anytime after mum gets better and I learn to inject myself with Klexane	16:45
Myrtti	:-(	16:45
Myrtti	(in which "mum gets better" means "is in a condition I can allow myself not to worry about her 24/7")	16:46
popey	bug 748384	16:53
lubotu3	Launchpad bug 748384 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) ""Warning" text is barely readbale, is too feint " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/748384	16:53
willy1977	what's next on the jam list?	16:56
willy1977	scratch that just picked up AlanBell 's email update	16:57
Myrtti	I recon I've soon drank almost a bucket of tea :-D	17:18
MartijnVdS	Buckets of tea++	17:24
matti	Nah.	17:25
matti	Coffee \o/	17:25
MartijnVdS	matti: heathen!	17:25
matti	Haha	17:25
BigRedS	coffee for productivity, tea for relaxing	17:25
matti	;]	17:26
BigRedS	that's quite a manic grin you've got there	17:26
matti	BigRedS: Just had coffee, that's why ;]	17:27
BigRedS	ah yeah, that should've been a bit obvious :)	17:27
matti	:>	17:28
matti	Ah, such a nice day and I have to do my course work.	17:29
matti	twittttch	17:29
BigRedS	Haha, I'm working today :(	17:41
BigRedS	Admittedly, from a bench in the garden :)	17:41
shauno	I'm at the office, but it's all good because I've already filled today's crazy quota	17:42
matti	Spare time seems like a luxury nowadays ;]	17:45
shauno	not sure myself. I mean, train-spotters still exist ..	17:48
matti	Hahah	17:49
matti	This reminded me about my friend from work... he uses every single spare minute to play WoW.	17:50
shauno	that was me until not so long ago :/	17:52
matti	Oh.	17:53
* brobostigon needs to learn to use blenders video editing again.		17:54
BigRedS	matti: I knew a guy who used every single spare minute from WoW to do work...	17:55
BigRedS	that didn't last long	17:55
MartijnVdS	\o/ Colleague managed to register a team for a 10 mile running event in September	17:56
hamitron	:/	17:56
BigRedS	Do the members know they're in the team?	17:56
matti	LOL	17:56
matti	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfso7_i9Ko8	17:56
MartijnVdS	BigRedS: Yes, everyone volunteered :)	17:56
MartijnVdS	BigRedS: http://damloop.nl/index.html	17:57
matti	BigRedS: Oh dear.	17:57
matti	BigRedS: This can be really life-wrecking if you don't know where to draw the line...	17:58
Azelphur	Hmm, I had an sd card with guarentee from a seller on Amazon and it broke, I sent it back to them, it's been a month and I havn't heard from them	17:58
Azelphur	:(	17:58
BigRedS	matti: yeah, I've seen a couple of people completely fail to find the line	17:59
matti	BigRedS: Yeah... They need to learn how to draw the line from the best...	17:59
MartijnVdS	I know a few ex-WoW players who are now falling into the Minecraft trap	17:59
matti	BigRedS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGF1NP-FrCU	17:59
shauno	MartijnVdS: \o/	17:59
matti	BigRedS: Picard will show them!	18:00
* matti loves First Contact		18:00
shauno	to be honest, I think that's why I'm loving minecraft. I can pick it up, play it silly, and then put it down for weeks at a time	18:00
shauno	instead of having expectations, schedules, people to let down, etc	18:01
matti	LOL	18:02
matti	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2IJdfxWtPM	18:02
matti	So British ;p	18:02
zleap	how did the ubuntu jam, thing to today ?	18:03
matti	I have no idea.	18:14
AlanBell	zleap: we have been fixing wiki pages, filing bugs against Natty installer	18:16
zleap	cool	18:16
AlanBell	and I am just doing a runthrough of some of the Accessible installer options	18:16
zleap	sounds good then	18:17
AlanBell	and filing masses of bugs against that	18:17
willy1977	AlanBell, you not doing that on mumble?	18:17
AlanBell	willy1977: I did go through it on mumble	18:17
willy1977	:/	18:17
AlanBell	then turned mumble off and went through it doing a clean recording	18:17
willy1977	poo	18:18
willy1977	missed that then...	18:18
AlanBell	well feel free to have a go in a VM or something on your machine	18:18
AlanBell	I will upload my video later	18:18
willy1977	I'll check out the vid - I just wonder what went on with mumble... hmmm	18:19
AlanBell	can you hear me?	18:20
willy1977	nope nowt...	18:20
willy1977	I'll try reconnecting.	18:20
AlanBell	I could hear you a bit	18:20
willy1977	ok so can't connect again now...	18:21
willy1977	must be my not so good connection then...	18:22
AlanBell	say something	18:25
AlanBell	hello to you too	18:25
AlanBell	is your volume muted somewhere?	18:26
willy1977	not that I can see... are you talking now?	18:26
AlanBell	when I am red I am talking	18:27
willy1977	that's just it you're little lips aren't going red anymore :(	18:27
AlanBell	ok, next session at 8PM	18:35
AlanBell	going through the election process and getting that ready for the wiki page	18:35
DJones	Evening all	18:42
Azelphur	Anyone know a good ADSL modem that'll just do PPPoE from a cable router?	18:43
Azelphur	ADSL2+ modem, rather	18:43
MartijnVdS	uhm	18:51
MartijnVdS	Why not buy a PPPoE "normal" router then?	18:51
Azelphur	MartijnVdS: because I have a Linksys WRT610n with DD-WRT	18:52
Azelphur	and it's very nice.	18:52
MartijnVdS	Get a Fritz!Box 7340, it can switch from DSL to 3G if connection drops :)	18:52
Azelphur	so can my router	18:52
Azelphur	I'm not decomissioning my £120 Linux router :p	18:53
Azelphur	all I need is a modem and it's good to go :D	18:53
shauno	\o/ home!	18:56
AlanBell	http://blip.tv/file/4967179	18:57
shauno	I'd be curious to see someone go thru that without the screen	19:03
shauno	I really don't like that it's reading out 'underscore' everywhere. it's reading out the name of the element?	19:09
AlanBell	yeah, it is a bit nasty	19:14
AlanBell	I have done it without looking at the screen in Lucid	19:15
shauno	not sure how it works on gnome; is there any hinting in the dialog that should suggest content to orca?	19:16
AlanBell	well kind of, try running orca and see what it does	19:18
AlanBell	there is an app which shows all the accessibilty events and hints	19:18
AlanBell	!info accerciser	19:19
lubotu3	accerciser (source: accerciser): an interactive Python accessibility explorer for the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.11.1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 1371 kB, installed size 4232 kB	19:19
shauno	I'll have to take a prod at that after dinner	19:24
shauno	I did the voiceover install on osx, thanks to the screen on my laptop being duff. there was a single page that tripped me up. not convinced I could have done the same with that walk thru	19:26
shauno	seems it'd have made more sense if it just read out the fields we see, rather than .. wherever it's getting underscore from all the time	19:26
shauno	I had one step that turned out to be a progress bar. but it didn't tell me that. nor did it read out the "now doing stuff" header. having absolutely zero feedback was incredibly frustrating	19:33
willy1977	Yeah, that's not so hot is it...	19:35
DJones	Sucess, new laptop, ubuntu installed, /me sits back to install useful apps now	19:44
ali1234	it strikes me that an install using debian-installer might work a lot better with a screen reader than a fancy GUI method	19:45
AlanBell	ali1234: yes, it probably would	19:45
HazRPG	pokes	19:47
HazRPG	seems I went from going for some food to actually sleeping on the sofa >_< lol	19:47
czajkowski	Aloha	19:47
ali1234	hmm re: keyboard layout, do blind people have braille keyboards or are they all expert touch typers?	19:48
AlanBell	hi czajkowski	19:49
AlanBell	ali1234: they are amazing touch typists generally	19:49
AlanBell	but braille keyboards exist too	19:49
ali1234	in the case of touch typing, all the questions about detecting kb layout are irrelevant	19:50
AlanBell	yes, it is pretty useless, just confusing if you end up in that section by accident	19:50
HazRPG	czajkowski: howdy	19:50
hamitron	omg, why do you always have problems when you are relying on someone else?	19:50
hamitron	:/	19:50
* hamitron headbutts wall		19:50
AlanBell	czajkowski: have you been car shopping?	19:51
HazRPG	hamitron: Hmm?	19:51
hamitron	my vps is broken	19:51
BigRedS	I'm after a way of debugging some PHP that's apparently not executing the SQL it should be without having to touch the code. Something like a PHP extension that gives me better logging? Anyone got any suggestions?	19:52
hamitron	my node had updates on 29th, and now loads of hassle	19:52
HazRPG	hmm, seems I missed the natty install, but I do have like 6hrs worth of audio xD	19:52
czajkowski	AlanBell: nope	19:54
czajkowski	relaxing resting	19:54
czajkowski	not able to move	19:54
czajkowski	and now fighting with machine	19:54
shauno	BigRedS: if you can change .htaccess, http://perishablepress.com/press/2008/01/14/advanced-php-error-handling-via-htaccess/ may be useful. there's a lot of errorlevel & debug flags you can pass thru apache	19:55
BigRedS	shauno: Ah. I'm trying to work out why code that works under Apache/mod_php appears to not under lighttpd/cgi	19:56
shauno	now that sound fun. have you compared the output of phpinfo() between the two?	19:57
BigRedS	shauno: yeah. I've rebuilt the cgi binary to match the configure options as closely as possible, and the php.ini is just a cp of the tree apache uses	19:57
shauno	may give clues if there's different capabilities listed (or indeed, if they're pointing to different php.ini's)	19:57
BigRedS	I've just thought of pointing lighttpd to the same php as apache's using just to test	19:58
BigRedS	why didn't that occur to me before?	19:58
BigRedS	still, I do need it working under lighttpd and a non-dpkg php	19:58
HazRPG	does audacity convert ogg to wave or something? I Just got a messaging saying I've run out of space on /	20:00
AlanBell	audacity will uncompress the ogg into memory	20:01
shauno	that could still cause problems with a 6-hour ogg	20:02
HazRPG	6hr ogg was fine...	20:02
HazRPG	because gotta remember its got blank spaces in between	20:03
HazRPG	it just didn't like me putting in ALL the ogg's I have	20:03
HazRPG	(one channel for each person)	20:03
shauno	silences are only cool when they're compress. if that's in pcm/wave in memory, that's going to be .. expensive	20:04
gord	HazRPG, yeah it pretty much converts to wav and puts it in /tmp	20:06
AlanBell	http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UUKElectionProcess messing with this at the moment	20:07
shauno	22k mono's going to be roughly 2.5meg/minute? so 6 hours would be 900Mb per person. 3600Mb per if it's 44k stereo. you're likely to run into some real limits of how many channels you can mux that way	20:07
HazRPG	I see	20:08
HazRPG	I knew I should have given /tmp its own partitions xD	20:08
ali1234	audacity converts everything you add to the project to pcm for fast editing	20:08
ali1234	it uses some custom file format for it	20:09
exobuzz	HazRPG, just mount it elsewhere ?	20:10
shauno	I wonder if you could do it with whatever the audiodaemon-de-jour is. 'play' a bunch of files at once, and point the output at \| oggenc	20:10
HazRPG	exobuzz: hmm, never thought of that	20:16
shauno	http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/man1/oggz-merge.1.html this could be interesting	20:17
shauno	"Similarly, using oggz-merge on a collection of Ogg Vorbis audio files will create a big Ogg file with all the songs in parallel, ie. interleaved for simultaneous playback	20:17
shauno	(no promises, it's a google result not experience)	20:19
exobuzz	anyone here used unity 2d ? i might be being stupid but i cant work out how to add a new application to it heh	20:19
exobuzz	pretty unstable still. well i guess its still wip	20:20
willy1977	exobuzz, definitely wip... I went back to classic :)	20:21
exobuzz	yeh. shame though since it could work well on this touchscreen device	20:21
exobuzz	i need to work out how to switch on compositing even though im using unity 2d too	20:22
=== MattJ100 is now known as MattJ
exobuzz	seems that its not advised/tested to run unity2d compiz. seems a mistake - they are assuming if you can run compiz then unity 3d will work, but there are gfxcards/drivers that compiz works but unity 3d doesnt	20:25
exobuzz	like the o2 joggler	20:25
AlanBell	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Elections does that look OK?	20:25
AlanBell	daubers: ^^	20:27
czajkowski	why do ye mention the LCoC and the CoC ?	20:28
czajkowski	or snippets of it?	20:28
daubers	AlanBell: Perfect :)	20:29
daubers	czajkowski: Sets the scene	20:29
AlanBell	czajkowski: because we don't have fixed terms	20:29
czajkowski	AlanBell: perhaps a way then would be to have a fixed term	20:29
czajkowski	say 2 cycles = 1 year	20:29
czajkowski	would encourage more people to take part and step up	20:30
daubers	czajkowski: We struggled for volunteers in the last round... that sounds like a heap of trouble :)	20:31
czajkowski	yeah we did	20:31
czajkowski	because we let the leadership go on for a long time	20:31
czajkowski	perhaps forcing people to step up might be a way to get more involvement tbh	20:31
daubers	czajkowski: Also, since yu'd be changinging the status quo, it'd have to go to a meeting and what not to be approved. Can't just write it in now	20:31
daubers	czajkowski: Also, those two paragraphs help put people in mind that they should step down gracefully	20:32
czajkowski	yes but it just seems ilogical tbh that you just elect a leader and when and if they get bored snad step down you go through this process.	20:32
czajkowski	daubers: trust me I've seen those two paragprahs used to get people to step down and it usually ends up the loco council having to step in	20:32
daubers	We haven't really ever had a problem with it (historically)	20:33
AlanBell	not neccessarily	20:33
AlanBell	czajkowski: you only see the times when you have to step in	20:33
willy1977	surely though uuk is a global domination outfit run by someone in a secret volcano island?	20:33
AlanBell	if it works properly you wouldn't know about it	20:33
AlanBell	willy1977: quite right	20:33
* AlanBell sits in a big chair stroking a chicken		20:34
daubers	AlanBell: I can actually picture that quite vividly...	20:34
Pendulum	could you be having issues getting volunteers because people think it could be a multi-year commitment?	20:34
nigelb	AlanBell: I dunno why, but I can picture it quite clearly.	20:34
AlanBell	we didn't have issues getting volunteers	20:34
czajkowski	AlanBell: daubers I'm just saying it may be a case that leaving the leadership term so long people dont wnat to step on toes or know when they can step up	20:34
willy1977	equally could you have problems getting volunteers because it definitely is a fixed term?	20:34
czajkowski	just doesnt seem right . sorry.	20:35
AlanBell	we got one quite easily, and it was uncontested	20:35
czajkowski	AlanBell: yup and perhaps had we a fixed term people cna say ok, well I'm busy now but at least in years time I can put myself forward	20:35
daubers	czajkowski: I'm happy for a discussion and what not too happen around the issue. Hoever, I have no strong feeling on the issue at all	20:35
czajkowski	nods	20:35
willy1977	czajkowski, I think you're making fair points how about we put it on the meeting agend for the next one? or something like that?	20:36
HazRPG	hmm that was odd	20:36
HazRPG	I hope I don't see that again!	20:36
willy1977	what AlanBell stroking his chicken?	20:36
HazRPG	almost didn't come back onto the internet then	20:36
HazRPG	ironically, I had an ipv6 though xD	20:36
AlanBell	I don't mind fixed terms, however I do think the "step down gracefully" thing is a viable alternative to fixed terms	20:36
AlanBell	willy1977: I have pet chickens	20:36
HazRPG	ipv4 decided to die, and all the internet with it	20:36
czajkowski	AlanBell: that assumes the person will get tired and step down, what about peoplemnitchying to help out and lead	20:37
czajkowski	this is no reflection on you	20:37
czajkowski	just I think having no set time is a bit well... daft	20:37
AlanBell	and bond villains stroke cats	20:37
willy1977	AlanBell: I got it ;) do you have some layers?	20:37
AlanBell	czajkowski: maybe in a few years time someone like you or popey will have a quiet word with me and point out it is time to go	20:38
czajkowski	who knows	20:38
BigRedS	you can quite easily emulate no-fixed-terms by a) re-electing the same guy again because he's good and b) letting him step down early and elect a replacement	20:38
AlanBell	willy1977: yes, three of them	20:38
czajkowski	anyways battery is about to die and I need to go and rest	20:38
AlanBell	not laying that well at the moment	20:38
DJones	Does anybody know why a dual core processor shows up as having 4 cores under system monitor	20:39
AlanBell	I keep telling them they have to step up production or it will be chicken tikka massala night at our house	20:39
AlanBell	DJones: dual core hyperthreaded	20:39
DJones	AlanBell: Thanks, that explains it, I didn't think the i3's were quad core	20:39
BigRedS	yeah, the kernel's bad at telling the difference between hyperthreading and genuine different cores	20:39
willy1977	kind of like "I don't want to be a pie, I don't like gravy?" any idea what may be causing the girls to ... err... you know.	20:40
DJones	I must add the laptop to the hardware database	20:41
gordonjcp	AlanBell: someone on the radio was talking about that earlier in the week, Gardener's Question Time possibly	20:41
gordonjcp	AlanBell: "More eggs, or less hens!"	20:41
AlanBell	gordonjcp: yes, there was a programme about it last week, I was at a customer at the time	20:42
AlanBell	wonder if it is on the web somewhere	20:42
willy1977	oh wasn't that on radio 4?	20:42
AlanBell	yup	20:42
DJones	AlanBell: Did you see that new open source licence "CDL - Chicken Dance Licence" when I read about it, I thought of you	20:43
AlanBell	http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00zsdsb	20:43
AlanBell	I did DJones!	20:44
willy1977	AlanBell: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zsdsb/Attila_the_Hen/	20:44
willy1977	ah ok.	20:44
willy1977	:)	20:44
gordonjcp	AlanBell: that looks like it	20:45
d3ngar_	ChanServ Help	20:45
d3ngar_	AUTH	20:45
d3ngar_	!AUTH	20:45
AlanBell	d3ngar_: not here!	20:46
gordonjcp	AlanBell: although I'm sure GQT was talking about it too - I often only get to hear odd bits of shows as I go from site to site	20:46
AlanBell	d3ngar_: /msg chanserv help	20:46
d3ngar_	AlanBell: thx	20:46
willy1977	gordonjcp: Yeah, I'm the same, although I don't do as much lately.	20:46
willy1977	tavelling I mean.	20:46
d3ngar_	AlanBell: What is the AUTH command?	20:48
AlanBell	!register	20:49
lubotu3	Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type « /nick <nickname> » to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode	20:49
AlanBell	info in there somewhere	20:49
willy1977	are you trying to register your nick?	20:49
d3ngar_	No	20:49
d3ngar_	I registered it already	20:49
willy1977	I'll shut up then :D	20:50
AlanBell	d3ngar_: ah, I see your problem	20:50
AlanBell	!ghost	20:50
lubotu3	If you own an IRC nick that is currently being used, you can make it change nicks by typing: /msg nickserv release <nick> <password> \| If you have a dead (ghost) connection, you can make it quit by typing: /msg nickserv ghost <nick> <password> \| further help in #freenode	20:50
d3ngar_	Just this client is new and I can't remember how to authenticate	20:51
AlanBell	freenode things d3ngar is still logged on	20:51
AlanBell	thinks	20:51
willy1977	and once that is cleared you should be able to identify with /msg nickserv identify <password>	20:52
d3ngar_	good stuff	20:52
=== d3ngar_ is now known as d3ngar
* AlanBell is enjoying atilla the hen		21:04
=== ChrisB is now known as Guest79113
willy1977	think I'm finally there with me new blog :)	21:18
AlanBell	willy1977: url?	21:20
willy1977	http://www.leemwilliams.co.uk	21:21
AlanBell	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/planet/ add it there and it will go on planet.ubuntu-uk.org	21:21
willy1977	done	21:21
AlanBell	so i tis	21:22
AlanBell	nice theme	21:22
Daviey	HazRPG, I can haz sage.	21:22
willy1977	I'm not a designer so I have doctored that to work for me, have only tried it in FF4 though... must try it in IE when I get a chance there's a min-height which I think will cause IE to spit it's dummy out...	21:23
shauno	I'm a rather fat feathery owl called Sage ...	21:23
Azelphur	Daviey: btw we're all still having fun in the waiting for an invoice from Daviey club :p	21:24
Daviey	:o	21:25
Azelphur	indeed	21:25
Azelphur	it's an awesome club, been established for 3 years now? :D	21:25
Myrtti	meh, why do I always get hungry at the most unconvinient times	21:26
Myrtti	(notice no questionmark)	21:27
shauno	yummy. I get to build my own mutt. sigh.	21:32
mgdm	the ones in the pet shop not good enough?	21:32
* mgdm runs		21:32
BigRedS	they're non-free; you can't take them apart, modify them, then put them back together again	21:39
BigRedS	well, you can, but they never work afterwards	21:39
shauno	you can hardly blame the pet shop for a faulty compiler	21:39
shauno	ugh, using slang instead of ncurses just brings a different set of bugs	21:48
* daubers gets his CSS beating stick out of the cupboard		21:48
* willy1977 hides just in case...		21:53
* penguin42 thinks he can play most of 'Wargames' from memory by now		21:53
matti	Hah.	22:14
* penguin42 just watched it again; nice way to relax after having been at u^3 all day		22:15
zleap	yay i got that on video somewhere (wargames)	22:17
willy1977	how about a game global thermo nuclear war?	22:18
willy1977	*of	22:18
zleap	yes	22:18
zleap	how about a nice game of chess	22:19
zleap	?	22:19
willy1977	probably for the best...	22:19
zleap	yeah	22:19
zleap	i found a dos game called globa nuclear war once	22:20
zleap	i managed to accidently shoot down a missile over london :(	22:20
willy1977	oops	22:21
zleap	well russia sent a icbm towards me and i launched an intecept missile thing,	22:22
zleap	so that was 7m killed, then 250m which was the pop of russia	22:22
zleap	it was more text based than graphical	22:23
zleap	its odd those old games as it gives you names of cities at the time which of course have changed now, and countries of course,	22:23
exobuzz	not the wargames game but this one was fun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_%28video_game%29	22:26
zleap	Ronnie Raygun lol	22:28
zleap	spooky that the 3 rd and 4th character in the list are like still around and in the same postition as 1985	22:32
andylock1an	howdy all	23:09

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