[06:13] <holstein> Kokito: o/
[06:23] <Kokito> hi holstein :)
[13:51]  * ckontros waves: www.webupd8.org/2011/04/ubuntu-1110-will-not-ship-with-classic.html
[13:52] <ckontros> (confirms assumptions made during yesterdays chats)
[14:44] <scott-upstairs> anybody here for the meeting already?
[14:44] <scott-upstairs> we have about fifteen minutes i believe
[14:46]  * ckontros is here.
[14:47] <holstein> o/
[14:50] <scott-upstairs> sweet
[14:50] <scott-upstairs> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011Apr3
[14:50] <scott-upstairs> that's a quick agenda i knocked together
[14:51] <holstein> scott-upstairs: thanks :)
[14:52] <scott-upstairs> holstein, i'm copying my that intro video to my website
[14:52] <scott-upstairs> but it's going sssslllllooooowwwww :P
[14:53] <holstein> scott-upstairs: i need to get that song written
[14:53] <holstein> well, recorded
[14:53] <holstein> the 'get it together' song 
[14:53] <holstein> that guitarman has to sing on :)
[14:54] <scott-upstairs> which song is that, holstein ?
[14:54] <scott-upstairs> i would like guitarman to sing on it though, he's got a really good voice IMO
[14:54] <scott-upstairs> although the title reminds me of "come together" by the beatles
[14:54] <holstein> a song idea i had for an ubuntustudio promo thing
[14:54] <scott-upstairs> which is a good thing also IMO
[14:54] <scott-upstairs> oh, groovy man
[14:55] <holstein> ive had it for a long time
[14:55] <holstein> when you were talking first about the idea of a vid
[14:55] <holstein> anyways... we'll see
[14:55] <holstein> and it can be used for other things
[14:55] <scott-upstairs> any help that i might provide, just let me know, man
[14:56] <holstein> :)
[14:56]  * ckontros is here but floating in/out a little.
[14:58] <holstein> ckontros: thanks for looking that up
[14:58] <holstein> about gnome
[14:58] <ckontros> np
[15:00] <scott-upstairs> it's meeting time, anyone else here but me, holstein, and cory?
[15:00] <azm> I'm here too
[15:00] <scott-upstairs> lol, hi azm, thanks :)
[15:00] <holstein> ailo: ping-o-la ?
[15:00] <holstein> paultag: ?
[15:00] <azm> Hi scott, np :)
[15:01] <scott-upstairs> while we wait a few minutes for other people, here's a brief agenda:
[15:01] <scott-upstairs> * read agenda
[15:01] <scott-upstairs> * amendments
[15:01] <scott-upstairs> * note meeting time and recurrence
[15:01] <scott-upstairs> * -lowlatency kernel
[15:01] <scott-upstairs> * ubuntustudio-controls
[15:01] <scott-upstairs> * ubuntu studio future
[15:01] <scott-upstairs> * artwork
[15:01] <scott-upstairs> * website
[15:02] <scott-upstairs> effectively we have just completed "* read agenda"
[15:02] <scott-upstairs> :)
[15:02] <holstein> well, any talk about the kernels?
[15:02] <holstein> not much we can do but note that here
[15:03] <holstein> im still hoping that by 12.04, we can just use the -generic one
[15:03] <scott-upstairs> i had thought we would talk about it under "-lowlatency kernel" but i suppose i should have just left it as "kernel"
[15:03] <holstein> its going to take more than the -generic kernel doing the job though
[15:03] <scott-upstairs> right, let's get going then
[15:03] <holstein> theres a thread on the mailing list
[15:03] <holstein> about 10.10 not having -rt
[15:04] <holstein> and my suggestiong of trying the -generic kernel was blown-off quite quickly
[15:04] <azm> what about ship the US with all three ?
[15:04] <holstein> i mean, the fact is, most users dont need latency below 20ms
[15:05] <holstein> AND, the video-graphics folks are probabaly ok with -generic now
[15:05] <holstein> azm: we *might* get -lowlatency pushed in the repos
[15:05] <azm> yeah, you could choose during installation process
[15:05] <holstein> i think thats more of a *probabaly*
[15:06] <ckontros> holstein: Well, "users" depends on audience. Folks trying to replace Pro-Tools or your average new user. it makes a fifference who you target.
[15:06] <scott-upstairs> any amendments to the agenda, anything else people want to talk about?
[15:06] <holstein> azm: i think for now, we are aiming for -lowlatency for 11.4
[15:06] <scott-upstairs> i think holstein wants to add some other kernel talk :)
[15:06] <scott-upstairs> holstein, would it be okay if we discussed this under "lowlatency kernel"?
[15:06] <scott-upstairs> okay, i wanted to note we should be having this meeting regularly again
[15:06] <holstein> 11.10*
[15:06] <ckontros> And yeah. Only -audio needs low latency.
[15:06] <holstein> scott-upstairs: sure, i dont want to hi-jack
[15:06] <holstein> i thought this could be brainstorming
[15:06] <scott-upstairs> we can always build what we want to and keep it in a ppa though
[15:06] <holstein> while we wait a bit
[15:07] <holstein> for others to come
[15:07] <scott-upstairs> holstein, nah, it's got momentum, just going with it
[15:07] <holstein> since, we literally cant do anything about the kernel 
[15:07] <holstein> today
[15:07] <azm> btw, we skiped * amendments and * note meeting time and recurrence ?
[15:07] <azm> :)
[15:07] <scott-upstairs> i would like to push the -lowlatency kernel to the repos, use that as default kernel for ubuntustudio, and try to offer -rt kernel as possible in ppa
[15:08] <holstein> scott-upstairs: i think thats a good goal
[15:08] <ckontros> scott-upstairs:  +1
[15:08] <scott-upstairs> azm, i can come back to those
[15:08] <azm> agreed
[15:08] <holstein> and do-able
[15:08] <scott-upstairs> i really feel that the -rt kernel is required at this moment for a majority of users who have firewire interfaces
[15:09] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Does Alessio have access to our PPA or does he still publish to his own?
[15:09] <scott-upstairs> this might change if some of the kernel changes happen where the -generic might allow the resolution of irq conflicts with the -rt kernel
[15:09] <holstein> ckontros: there is no ubuntustudio ppa
[15:09] <ckontros> Actually, his can be testing and ours be stable.
[15:09] <holstein> and should be, if possible
[15:09] <holstein> shouldnt*
[15:09] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, he currently pushes to his own, i do not know if he has access or not
[15:09] <azm> you guys know the technical differences between rt and low ? I still haven't studied it.
[15:09] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, yes, i like that
[15:09] <holstein> azm: ailo is crazy on kernel testing
[15:10] <holstein> if you get a minute to hang with hiim
[15:10] <scott-upstairs> holstein, i think ubuntustudo-dev does have a ppa
[15:10] <holstein> scott-upstairs: but, the goal is to not do that right?
[15:10] <holstein> so we can just pull from the main repo?
[15:10] <holstein> at install?
[15:10] <ckontros> holstein: Its a band-aid for now.
[15:10] <scott-upstairs> holstein, i think we can use the ubuntustudio-dev ppa for the -rt kernel
[15:11] <scott-upstairs> since it will not probably ever be in the repos again
[15:11] <holstein> ckontros: agreed
[15:11] <holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah, and i think thats OK
[15:11] <holstein> as long as -lowlatency is default
[15:11] <holstein> OR -generic does the job
[15:11] <holstein> out of the box
[15:11] <scott-upstairs> i think we could also add to ubuntustudio-default-settings to add the ppa automatically if desired
[15:11] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Well, it /could/ be. It was before and wasnt a nightmare for anyone. Just needs a good dedicated person to maintain.
[15:11] <holstein> PPA's are easy for those users that need
[15:12] <ckontros> We can note on how to enable in the release notes.
[15:12] <azm> well in my case generic cause a lot of xrunson my notebook so I switched to falktx rt
[15:12] <holstein> azm: thats usually the case
[15:13] <holstein> however, i have hardware that is quite opposite
[15:13] <holstein> probably due to the verion of the -generic kernel
[15:13] <scott-upstairs> this may sound bourgeois, but should we support netbooks?  aren't they intentiontally underpowered and not necessarily for audio work?
[15:14] <holstein> scott-upstairs: i use them quite often actually
[15:14] <holstein> but, i dont think we need to say anything about it either way
[15:14] <ckontros> I would say no. If we had someone on the team just for it, sure. But with limited resources...
[15:14] <holstein> its a low-powered machine
[15:14] <holstein> if someone wants to mess around and get it working
[15:15] <holstein> why not
[15:15] <scott-upstairs> i agree with ckontros about limited resources
[15:15] <scott-upstairs> of course if it works, then it works
[15:15] <holstein> but i dont think we need to say 'no netbook support'
[15:15] <ckontros> +1
[15:15] <scott-upstairs> but conversely if it doesn't work, then perhaps it doesn't work
[15:15] <ckontros> holstein:  agreed
[15:15] <scott-upstairs> so we agree to do "nothing" :P
[15:15] <holstein> yeah
[15:15] <holstein> easy :)
[15:16] <holstein> if i get bored
[15:16] <holstein> i'll try and put some documentation up about running what i run on netbooks
[15:16] <scott-upstairs> but we probably should point out if asked about netbooks and people having problems, that they aren't our target hardware i guess
[15:16] <azm> what about proper jack-pulse support ?
[15:16] <azm> if I can ask now
[15:16] <holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah, we should say 'runs great on netbooks and old hardware'
[15:17] <holstein> azm: sure, you can ask
[15:17] <scott-upstairs> okay, i'm working with alessio on the -lowlatency kernel, we are waiting for 2.6.39 to get stable and will try to get it into ocelot
[15:17] <scott-upstairs> persia has agreed in the past to push the -lowlatency kernel into the repos without "permission" from UKT
[15:17] <ckontros> As he should.
[15:17] <azm> I have to basically download pulse-jack bridge from different distro to have sound
[15:17] <scott-upstairs> holstein, what do you mean "runs great on netbooks and old hardware"?
[15:17] <ckontros> Its not their territory.
[15:17] <holstein> well, it *should* be cool
[15:18] <azm> no tutorials on this topic on US web
[15:18] <holstein> scott-upstairs: shouldnt*
[15:18] <holstein> sorry :)
[15:18] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, there is a blueprint for kernels, it has the UKT coming with documentation about how to build/package a kernel derivative
[15:18] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, it was a "great colloboration" between us and them
[15:18] <ckontros> gotcha
[15:18] <scott-upstairs> my quotes and term
[15:19] <holstein> azm: we'll get to that
[15:19] <scott-upstairs> at this point, however, it has completely failed because the documentation continues to remain forthcoming
[15:19] <scott-upstairs> i think persia has reached his limit and will move rather unilaterally now to push it into the repos :)
[15:20] <scott-upstairs> sorry, azm, your question again?
[15:20] <holstein> and Jfo comes in here from the UKT
[15:20] <holstein> so, i dont think its going to be a big issue
[15:20] <holstein> we need it
[15:20] <holstein> and its great that we are going to get it :)
[15:20] <scott-upstairs> holstein, as cory pointed out, it's not their perview if our kernel goes into multiverse, it's -motu
[15:21] <scott-upstairs> and persia is part of -motu
[15:21] <holstein> scott-upstairs: azm is inquiring about the pulse-jack bridge
[15:21] <azm> scott-upstairs, np, I was asking of support pulseaudio and jack working together
[15:21] <holstein> AFAIK
[15:21] <holstein> that is not going to debian upstream
[15:21] <scott-upstairs> azm, are you saying that you do not have any sound at all with ubuntu studio?
[15:21] <holstein> last i heard falk talk about it
[15:21] <holstein> the pulse guys didnt like it
[15:22] <holstein> because it kills pulse
[15:22] <azm> scott-upstairs, sure I have, but If I run jack then pa stop workin, if I stop jack pa will not start
[15:22] <holstein> scott-upstairs: do we have plans of including that package?
[15:22] <azm> I know jack must be setup properly
[15:22] <holstein> falks pulse-jack thingy?
[15:22] <scott-upstairs> ah, azm, i am assuming you have a single audio interface or you are trying to use a single audio interface to play streams from both pusle and jack?
[15:22] <azm> scott-upstairs, yes
[15:23] <ckontros> The pulse-jack thing has hounded us since pulse was introed. JACK in main was supposed to be our ticket. Since it hasnt happened, for whatever reason, I saw we push during 11.10 for a bit. If it doesnt happen, PPA it is.
[15:23] <holstein> i think its such a specialized need
[15:23] <scott-upstairs> but jack is in the main
[15:23] <azm> well I already figured how to get it working
[15:23] <azm> but for beginners it could be pita
[15:24] <azm> btw. does US have wiki?
[15:24] <holstein> azm: IF its proper documentation
[15:24] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Yep. Which was supposed to allow us to enable JACK support in pulse.
[15:24] <holstein> you and i would set down and make a WIKI sometime
[15:24] <holstein> maybe you and I and [lsd]
[15:24] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, ah, okay
[15:24] <holstein> [lsd] know the old method quite well
[15:24] <holstein> knows*
[15:24] <ckontros> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
[15:24] <holstein> and we can just make whatever WIKI we need
[15:24] <holstein> thats what they are for
[15:25] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, maybe we need to file another bug or if one exists we push that one
[15:25] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Im sure there's already several.
[15:25] <holstein> ckontros: its the pulse guys AFAIK
[15:25] <holstein> they dont have a JACK option
[15:25] <scott-upstairs> i'll check to see if a "enable JACK support in pulse" bug exists and see where they stand then
[15:25] <holstein> thats where i think we should put the pressure
[15:25] <holstein> if possible
[15:26] <holstein> that would make life SO much easier
[15:26] <holstein> but, there are issues with it
[15:26] <scott-upstairs> holstein, like what?
[15:26] <holstein> pulse would have to stop
[15:26] <holstein> and start again
[15:26] <ckontros> holstein: Naa... Pulse guys wont do it. The JACK-Pulse stuff was written by las AFAIK.
[15:26] <holstein> and they dont like that
[15:26] <holstein> they = pulse team
[15:26] <scott-upstairs> like falk's jack-bridge ?
[15:26] <holstein> right
[15:26] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, who is las?
[15:27] <holstein> he said they were kinda pissed about it
[15:27] <holstein> las= paul davis
[15:27] <scott-upstairs> oh yeah
[15:27] <holstein> still, thats literally all it would take
[15:27] <holstein> the pulse guys to allow JACK support
[15:27] <holstein> and boom
[15:27] <holstein> everything is in the main repos
[15:27] <scott-upstairs> we could host falktx's jack-bridge in our ppa, like the -rt kernel?
[15:27] <holstein> and it would just work
[15:27] <holstein> scott-upstairs: that would be easy
[15:27] <ckontros> bug 109659
[15:28] <holstein> falk already has documentation
[15:28] <ckontros> bug 480103
[15:28] <holstein> about how to add it to ubuntu
[15:28] <scott-upstairs> it says "fix released", ergo we don't actually have a problem ;)
[15:28] <holstein> i think jack sink missing in pulseaudio should be the one
[15:28] <scott-upstairs> kidding
[15:28] <holstein> BUT
[15:28] <ckontros> um,, yeah. ;)
[15:28] <holstein> i personally could care less
[15:28] <holstein> i stop JACK
[15:29] <holstein> and watch whatever
[15:29] <holstein> i dont need JACK + web
[15:29] <holstein> but, it would be nice
[15:29] <holstein> for some
[15:29] <scott-upstairs> i'll crawl through launchpad more in the coming week and follow up with the bugs and see where they are at, and see who i need to bug about it
[15:29] <holstein> yeah, lets just think about if we want the bridge in the PPA
[15:29] <scott-upstairs> but we should have an alternative solution (if possible) if the we aren't able to enable jack support in pulse
[15:30] <holstein> and azm, ask me sometime
[15:30] <holstein> and we'll make some documentation
[15:30] <ckontros> holstein: Sure. But that's where our "audience" comes in. Personally, during my "reign" :P advanced users were the focus.
[15:30] <azm> ok
[15:30] <ckontros> But new users dont know why things dont work together.
[15:30] <scott-upstairs> just wanted to note as well, that this meeting is recurring each month on the first sunday of the month at this same time
[15:30] <holstein> yup :)
[15:30] <ckontros> noted
[15:30] <scott-upstairs> if anyone is having problems with the date or time, please let us know and we will see what we can do
[15:31] <scott-upstairs> alright, moving onto ubuntustudio-controls
[15:31] <azm> also I would replace zynadd with yoshimi
[15:31] <holstein> azm: thats happening
[15:31] <scott-upstairs> already done in natty, azm
[15:31] <scott-upstairs> they are borked right now, current functionality is either not necessary anymore or broken
[15:31] <azm> oh, nice
[15:31] <holstein> paultag and ailo are working on studio controls right?
[15:32] <scott-upstairs> ailo and paultag have been working on it :)
[15:32] <scott-upstairs> lol holstein 
[15:32] <holstein> yeah, i wanted to say thanks officially to them
[15:32] <scott-upstairs> but we don't have a stable build yet and therefore nothing to build a diff from to push into the repos for natty
[15:32] <azm> is there some audio app extension program? Like if you adding some new valuable software to dvd ?
[15:32] <scott-upstairs> so, the new target is ocelot for the -controls update
[15:33] <holstein> scott-upstairs: i think thats fine
[15:33] <scott-upstairs> azm, can you explain that a little more expansively?  i'm not sure i understand your question
[15:33] <holstein> we can get by with what we need in natty as-is
[15:33] <scott-upstairs> holstein, agreed
[15:33] <holstein> and maybe the controls get moved to XFCE or whatever
[15:33] <holstein> anyways...
[15:33] <scott-upstairs> however, themuso assured me that we can SRU -controls back into natty as required even if it is pulled from the seeds
[15:34] <scott-upstairs> and i did ask themuso to remove -controls from the seeds
[15:34] <holstein> another offical thanks there too then
[15:34] <scott-upstairs> ailo has expressed concerns about trying to get eh updated -controls back into maverick and lucid and they have broken -controls currently as well
[15:34] <scott-upstairs> agree holstein :)
[15:34] <holstein> i like that we seem to be more able to be flexible
[15:34] <holstein> and thats what we need right now
[15:35] <scott-upstairs> next topic, is ubuntu studio's future in regards to gnome and unity
[15:35] <azm> scott-upstairs, like eg. adding up to date new ladspa, lv2 plugins, mayne vst support
[15:35] <scott-upstairs> something that ckontros has expressed some concerns
[15:35] <azm> *maybe
[15:35] <holstein> azm: that should be coming to the repos soon
[15:36] <scott-upstairs> azm, for ladspa, lv2...you only need to add the package from synaptic or software center, the plugins will be installed and usable then
[15:36] <holstein> azm: i say, keep an eye on what you are interested in
[15:36] <holstein> and lets track them upstream
[15:36] <holstein> and get more pro-active if needed
[15:36] <scott-upstairs> vst support is a different beast, azm, due to licensing
[15:36] <holstein> yeah, we dont need that
[15:37] <azm> thats sounds good
[15:37] <holstein> i would like to go on record as being a dick about vst support
[15:37] <scott-upstairs> azm, or are you saying updates to existing lv2 plugins, version 3.1 of foo, rather than 3.0 of foo
[15:37] <scott-upstairs> lol holstein 
[15:37] <azm> Im no fan of it either
[15:37] <ckontros> haha. VSTs. Will they ever stop being an issue. :P
[15:37] <holstein> with the work that falk is doing
[15:38] <holstein> it should be easy to add that functionality if needed
[15:38] <scott-upstairs> why do you say that holstein ?
[15:38] <scott-upstairs> do you mean his work with cadence?
[15:38] <azm> scott-upstairs, yep, and adding some new creations like IR
[15:38] <holstein> falk seems to add support for VST's when possible
[15:38] <azm> but thats maybe off topic as it is some beta version
[15:38] <azm> that wa just example
[15:38] <scott-upstairs> azm, that's a multifaceted question, but i'll be brief
[15:38] <holstein> maybe its just certain ones
[15:39] <scott-upstairs> azm, brand new plugins (ladspa or lv2) need to be packaged
[15:39] <scott-upstairs> but they also need to be packaged and built for the appropriate release of ubuntu/ubuntu studio
[15:39] <scott-upstairs> once they are, then we can see about putting them into studio
[15:39] <scott-upstairs> azm, does that help somewhat?
[15:39] <holstein> yeah, and right now, we are more in the mode of putting out fires
[15:40] <holstein> since, when those builds break, its scott-upstairs fixing them
[15:40] <holstein> and whoever he can rope into helping him ;)
[15:40] <scott-upstairs> heh, sadly very true about putting out fires
[15:40] <ailo> Sorry, I missed the meeting. I'm here now. Reading the scroll
[15:40] <holstein> adding packages right now is not where we are
[15:40] <holstein> hopefully by 12.04 though
[15:40] <scott-upstairs> NEW TOPIC:  GNOME-PANELS, GNOME3 (AKA GNOME-SHELL), AND UNITY
[15:40] <holstein> we can have resources for maintainting packages
[15:40] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, do you want to take lead on this?
[15:41] <holstein> yup :)
[15:41] <azm> scott-upstairs, yes. So for some other updates ppa is the place where to search addition stuff during next release period
[15:41] <holstein> ailo: no worries 
[15:41] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Sure. It will mostly be a recap of yesterday.
[15:41] <azm> brb
[15:42] <ckontros> So, in tinkering yesterday it looks like rebasing on XFCE is viable.
[15:42] <ckontros> That is, if thats the direction the team wants to go in.
[15:42] <holstein> i like that idea
[15:42] <holstein> i think we should entertain that
[15:42] <holstein> like the live installer
[15:42] <holstein> really think about all the implications
[15:43] <holstein> and make sure its something we can live with for years
[15:43] <ckontros> LXDE is also an option but I feel integration/UI consistency will be harder.
[15:43] <holstein> ckontros: i agree
[15:43] <holstein> ckontros: any idea on the longevity of XFCE ?
[15:43] <holstein> seems like a well maintained project when i check in on it
[15:43] <ckontros> Using XFCE also gives us a slightly larger -dev team as we will have to work with Xubuntu.
[15:43] <scott-upstairs> backing up a bit:  there is a confluence of situations that is causing us to look at other alternatives for a DE and windows managers
[15:44] <scott-upstairs> canonical/ubuntu moving to unity and then waylaynd
[15:44] <scott-upstairs> gnome 3 coming out with single app focus like unity
[15:44] <scott-upstairs> they are not conducive for a studio environment
[15:44] <holstein> i dont think XFCE is challenging though
[15:44] <holstein> not like KDE can be
[15:44] <ckontros> Canonical ditching the "classic" GNOME option for 11.10
[15:44] <holstein> coming from gnome*
[15:44] <holstein> KDE or LXDE or soemthing like fluxbox
[15:45] <holstein> i feel those are a lot different than gnome
[15:45] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, are they not even providing gnome-classic at 11.10, they have stated this somewhere?
[15:45] <holstein> and XFCE should be easier
[15:45] <ckontros> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/ubuntu-1110-will-not-ship-with-classic.html
[15:45] <holstein> no matter what, we are going to hear about it ;)
[15:45] <scott-upstairs> argh!
[15:45] <holstein> im +1 on XFCE
[15:46] <ckontros> Ready for me to continue?
[15:46] <scott-upstairs> well, it appears that jono was wrong about ubuntu always providing gnome :/
[15:46] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, sure
[15:46] <ckontros> k
[15:46] <holstein> well, i think gnome3 will be in the repos
[15:46] <ckontros> So if there's a consensus on XFCE, a UI direction should be tinkered with.
[15:47] <ckontros> I'm advocating a single, AWN across the bottom.
[15:47] <holstein> ckontros: avant?
[15:47] <scott-upstairs> i agree with xfce, it has numerous advantages that lxde or others do not have
[15:47] <holstein> does that still require 3d ?
[15:48] <ckontros> Yes. Avant. Simple, gives the most screenspace and does everything and more a panel does.
[15:48] <ckontros> holstein: XFCE can do sw composite.
[15:48] <ckontros> (last i knew anyway)
[15:48] <holstein> ckontros: i would like to see some overhead on avant
[15:48] <scott-upstairs> http://imagebin.org/146291  this is currently xfce from live cd, notice the bottom AWN panel
[15:48] <holstein> i remember when i was using it
[15:48] <holstein> it seemed heavy
[15:48] <holstein> that was 9.10 though i bet
[15:49] <ckontros> And my simple testing from yesterday: http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6728/screenshotoof.png
[15:49] <holstein> i went to wbar
[15:49] <holstein> then, i just started using gnome-do
[15:49] <holstein> ckontros: im not opposed though
[15:49] <holstein> i think AWN does look modern
[15:49] <holstein> and thats what we need i think
[15:49] <holstein> if we go to XFCE
[15:49] <scott-upstairs> i like ckontros 's screenshot, even better if the AWN panel is set to autohide
[15:49] <holstein> and have a really slick looking DE
[15:50] <ailo> XFCE is nice, but in some way, it would feel like more of a safe choice, than a preferred choice.
[15:50] <holstein> boo-ya
[15:50] <holstein> ^ if anybody still says that ;p
[15:50] <ckontros> holstein: There's some graphic to tinkering to do but its the least of our issues. ;)
[15:50] <ckontros> So +'s to XFCE?
[15:50] <scott-upstairs> +1
[15:50] <holstein> yup +1
[15:51] <holstein> i say, +1 even if gnome2 is sticking around
[15:51] <ailo> I'm still not sure. But, perhaps XFCE is the smartest choice, at least for 11.10
[15:51] <ckontros> Ok. In the coming weeks I'll start a BZR branch to start testing.
[15:51] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, i wonder if we might convince some xubuntu developers might help us figure out a way to do software selection during installation
[15:51] <scott-upstairs> incidentally, this would give us the live dvd option i believe
[15:52] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Im sure they would. I'll reach out to them soon.
[15:52] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: After 11.04. A Planet note will also be good. But not till after Natty releases.
[15:52] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, absolutely :)
[15:53] <jussi> ooh, its a ckontros!
[15:53] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, but this will give us a live dvd, will it not?
[15:53] <ckontros> BAM! :)
[15:53] <ckontros> Hi Jussi
[15:53] <holstein> jussi: o/
[15:53] <scott-upstairs> hi jussi
[15:53] <jussi> cripes, everyones awake
[15:53] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Well, that's a different issue. It comes down to *if* you want one.
[15:54] <jussi> ckontros: you are probably interested in the new Qt app - tomahawk
[15:54] <jussi> its brilliant
[15:54] <scott-upstairs> right, so ckontros will work on this more and talk to the xubuntu people and see if we can forge a relationship
[15:54] <ckontros> scott-upstairs:  we'd also have to work with the Edubuntu guys on install options.
[15:54] <scott-upstairs> i'll do a post about it after natty comes out
[15:54] <scott-upstairs> yes! ckontros, they've done some cool stuff :)
[15:54] <ckontros> jussi: Seen it. :P
[15:55] <jussi> ckontros: seen, or used? 
[15:55] <ckontros> jussi:  Just seen. But we're /tryin'/ ta have a meetin'!! :P
[15:56] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Ok. So thats 2 groups to reach out to.
[15:56] <jussi> ckontros: oh, my apologies, just walked in
[15:56] <scott-upstairs> do we have anymore to say about ubuntu studio and gnome/unity/xfce ?
[15:57] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Maybe we get together a tri-team meeting. E/X/US-devs?
[15:57] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, that is a great idea, is that something you can coordinate?
[15:58] <ailo> I would like to investigate gnome 3 and Unity more. I wonder if there will be a Ubuntu 11.10 version using Gnome 3, like Xubuntu or Kubunt.
[15:58] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Sure. But remind me after release. I wanna let the focus continue to be on Natty for those teams.
[15:58] <scott-upstairs> ck
[15:58] <holstein> ailo: gubuntu or whatever
[15:58] <holstein> i bet
[15:58] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, absolutely
[15:59] <scott-upstairs> ailo, fedora has a live gnome3 disc available
[15:59] <ckontros> ailo: Doubtful. Unity is Canonicals focus and K/X will most likelt stick with what they have.
[15:59] <scott-upstairs> gnome3 thought tends to have a single app focus though
[15:59] <scott-upstairs> s/thought/though
[15:59] <ckontros> It will most likly be Mint or something that goes GNOME3.
[15:59] <scott-upstairs> NEW TOPIC:  WEBSITE UPDATE
[16:00] <scott-upstairs> i was hoping that jorge (kokito i believe) would be here :(
[16:00] <scott-upstairs> but then neither is david or stochastic, so it's a matched set :P
[16:00] <ailo> scott-upstairs, I am trying it out now. I haven't even tried Unity much. I know very little about them, and the way things are going, with Wayland, QT, X, one wonders how things will look like in the future
[16:01] <ailo> I'm not against single app focus, if it is practical. I've sometimes thought about that
[16:01] <scott-upstairs> ailo, from my limited exposure to them i found that they are not conducive to studio work especially when working with midi sequencers and synths
[16:02] <ckontros> +1
[16:02] <scott-upstairs> for the website update, i've posted another email per jorge's question about the purpose of the website update
[16:02] <scott-upstairs> i hope that helps those involved understand where i think we should be heading
[16:03] <scott-upstairs> of course i also said that i don't develop website and if i'm wrong with some of my comments, please correct me
[16:03]  * ckontros is away for a sec
[16:03] <scott-upstairs> there is an example of the current version of the updated website
[16:04] <scott-upstairs> this is it:  http://mousike.dyndns.org/ubuntustudio/
[16:04] <scott-upstairs> i've already noted that i think we should be using the vertical spacing better, especially for laptop/netbook users
[16:05] <holstein> yeah, i remember that suggestion
[16:05] <holstein> and agree
[16:07]  * ckontros notes the tagline should be lower case, the blue is, "wrong" (unless its a design choice) and it feels, less, "professional" that the old site. :(
[16:07] <ckontros> s/that/than
[16:08] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, this was the other option that people voted on:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp#Audio%20Horizons%20v2
[16:08] <holstein> ckontros: the mailing list is really where most of the website work happens
[16:09] <ckontros> Something along Horizons v2 would be my vote also.
[16:09] <holstein> i think kokito can really add some polish :)
[16:09] <ailo> Since there's probably going to be a new theme for 10.10, we could let the website use colors from the new theme.
[16:10] <scott-upstairs> i voted for horizons myself as well
[16:10] <ckontros> I dont think its 100%, but better than the other IMO.
[16:10] <scott-upstairs> i thought the dark horizons looked pretty good and matched our theme pretty well
[16:11] <ckontros> yes
[16:11] <ckontros> We should also see how the new "ubuntu" font would look used there.
[16:12] <ailo> When should the new site be published? Is there a time set for that?
[16:13] <ckontros> "Impact" /could/ work with some revamp. But Horizons I feel makes a better initial impact.
[16:13] <holstein> i think we are on a 'when its ready' kinda thing
[16:13] <ckontros> ailo: I would push for 11.10 release.
[16:13] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, since there is not much movement on the impact theme, you want me to talk to the horizon guys and see what could be worked up
[16:13] <ailo> ckontros, +1 to that
[16:14] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: Sounds reasonable.
[16:14] <scott-upstairs> ailo, it was loosely hoped to coincide with natty release, but that isn't going to happen since the development has been really, really slow :P
[16:14] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, i will do that then
[16:16] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, would you like to be included on the emails to provide some artistic feedback?  i'll do all the logistics and coordinating
[16:16] <ckontros> scott-upstairs: What list is the chat on?
[16:17] <scott-upstairs> it would probably be a mixture of direct and the -dev mailing list
[16:17] <scott-upstairs> direct just to make sure they see the email :P
[16:17] <ckontros> Ill sub to -dev again.
[16:18] <ckontros> Done.
[16:18] <scott-upstairs> any other comments or concerns in relation to the meeting?
[16:18] <scott-upstairs> if not, we can conclude the meeting
[16:18] <ckontros> Not here.
[16:19] <holstein> yeah, i have one
[16:19] <ckontros> Anyone don't know how I am? err.. was?
[16:19] <holstein> i might talk more to Daviey about getting a mootbot in here
[16:19] <holstein> for the meetings
[16:19] <holstein> if no objections ?
[16:19] <ckontros> I realize I didnt inro myself to a couple of folks. :P
[16:19] <holstein> talk to Daviey more*
[16:19] <ckontros> *intro
[16:19] <holstein> ckontros: go for it
[16:19] <scott-upstairs> i think ckontros is a legend myself
[16:20] <holstein> ckontros: glad you're here :)
[16:20] <scott-upstairs> holstein, i think that would be a good idea, it would certainly with minutes for meetings, especially if we are getting into regular meetings again
[16:20] <ckontros> I just noticed some new folks.
[16:20] <ckontros> Didnt want anyone to be like: "Who the fuck is this guy?" :P
[16:20] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, do you want to mention some of your background with studio?
[16:20] <Kokito> howdy
[16:20] <scott-upstairs> hi Kokito !
[16:21] <Kokito> sorry I am late for the meeting
[16:21] <scott-upstairs> we were just about to wrap it up, but we can talk about the website stuff if you want
[16:22] <ailo> ckontros, I've been around since the beginning of Natty development. I realize there are some people I haven't met yet. I'm a musician / Linux enthusiast, just hanging around, helping if I can, hoping not to screw anything up.
[16:22] <scott-upstairs> actually, ailo is a HUGE asset to the team, he's really dove into many things and helped quite a bit
[16:22] <scott-upstairs> Kokito, did you get my email about goals of the website?
[16:23] <ckontros> (got the wiki is slow)
[16:23] <ckontros> *god
[16:23] <holstein> Kokito: hello again :)
[16:23] <Kokito> scott-upstairs: I will meed another 10 minutes or so before I can chat. sorry...
[16:23] <holstein> we're about to the end here, but you and scott-upstairs can touch base it seems
[16:23] <scott-upstairs> for those who don't know ckontros, cory kontros was probably the most active project lead and major force of will for ubuntu studio
[16:24] <scott-upstairs> ubuntu studio certainly wouldn't exist as it does today without cory
[16:24] <scott-upstairs> i believe he also had a very heavy hand in developing the current dark theme
[16:24] <holstein> which is awesome :)
[16:24] <azm> theme is nice really.
[16:25] <ckontros> Jesus. I cant bring up my wiki page to save my life.
[16:25] <scott-upstairs> lol
[16:25] <scott-upstairs> i've also had problem with the wiki where it times out or something and won't bring up the page
[16:25] <ckontros> https://launchpad.net/~coryisatm and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CKontros
[16:26] <scott-upstairs> holstein, http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/video/intro0001-7275.ogg is my video i'm working on in blender
[16:26] <scott-upstairs> it's still very rough, but you should get the idea
[16:27] <holstein> nice :)
[16:27] <holstein> i need a horn section for the tune i have
[16:27] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, have you seen this theme:  http://ubuntu-art.org/content/show.php/Ambiance+dark?content=132875
[16:27] <holstein> maybe i can talk the guys im playing with wednesday into playing the part real quick
[16:28] <holstein> and i can paste it around
[16:28] <ckontros> Ok. I got some stuff to do. scott-upstairs: Ill chime in on anything you need me to if you post to the list.
[16:28] <scott-upstairs> ckontros, right, thanks for coming to the meeting :)
[16:28] <ckontros> np
[16:28] <holstein> ckontros: yeah, thanks :)
[16:28] <ckontros> Ill look over the theme.
[16:28] <holstein> scott-upstairs: thats going to be very helpful
[16:28] <scott-upstairs> i need to leave as well, the kids are starting to kill each other
[16:28] <holstein> yeah, i gotta watch some TV
[16:29] <holstein> and kick back
[16:29] <scott-upstairs> holstein, i hope so, it targets comletely new people to help educate them on why ubuntu studio is something they should download and use :)
[16:29] <holstein> this is my first day off in weeks :)
[16:29] <scott-upstairs> i'll still check in on ScottL from time to time throughout the day as usual
[16:29] <holstein> great meeting guys 
[16:30] <holstein> thanks ailo Kokito azm & jussi 
[16:31] <azm> Im here more as a newbie-user not dev guy
[16:31] <azm> hope its ok
[16:31] <ScottL> azm, absolutely :)
[16:31] <holstein> yeah, me too azm
[16:32] <ailo> XFCE, hmm. I hope at least we can get everything else together for 11.10. -lowlatency, -controls and even a new theme.
[16:32] <ailo> And documentation
[16:32] <holstein> ailo: if we miss most of that
[16:32] <holstein> and it spurs some community envolvment
[16:32] <holstein> i say thats good enough :)
[16:33] <ailo> azm, You asked about the difference between -rt and -lowlatency, right?
[16:33] <azm> ailo, yep, Im interested 
[16:34] <ailo> -rt is an Ubuntu specific kernel with added source. So, it's a realtime kernel, but using Ubuntu specific code
[16:34] <ailo> -realtime is a vanilla kernel, with the realtime patch. It's also a realtime kernel, but not Ubuntu specific.
[16:35] <ailo> -lowlatency is exactly the same as -generic, but is compiled using a different configuration
[16:36] <azm> ailo, I see, and are there some disadvantages in security or in different area using realtime kernel ?
[16:38] <ScottL> but the patch for real-time isn't available for every kernel version or point release
[16:39] <ailo> More and more of the realtime patch is being included into the main kernel source.
[16:40] <AnAnt> Hello, is there some sort of setting (gconf maybe) to change the default session to Classic instead of Unity ? 
[16:40] <holstein> ailo: do you know how we did that?
[16:40] <holstein> in natty?
[16:40] <ScottL> Kokito, when ever you are ready to talk about the website, just let me know (this is scott-upstairs, but down "downstairs")
[16:40] <holstein> gnome be default
[16:40] <holstein> by*
[16:40] <ScottL> AnAnt, when you are loggin in you set it
[16:41] <ScottL> AnAnt, when you pick your name at the login in screen, and BEFORE you enter password
[16:41] <holstein> ScottL: more in a building sense
[16:41] <ScottL> AnAnt, look down at the bottom of the screen, there is an option for setting the session
[16:41] <AnAnt> ScottL: I am working on a derivative distro, and I want the default setting to be Classic instead of Unity
[16:41] <ScottL> AnAnt, choose the "ubuntu classic desktop"
[16:42] <ScottL> AnAnt, i cannot answer for a derivative of ubuntu studio, you should contact that maintainer
[16:42] <AnAnt> derivative of Ubuntu actually
[16:42] <ailo> azm, I consider a realtime kernel a little experimental. From what I understand, the realtime kernel is 100% deterministic with latency, which -generic is not, but in practice, -lowlatency is virtually as good as a realtime kernel, in most cases.
[16:42] <AnAnt> ScottL: I was told that Ubuntu Studio did that
[16:42] <holstein> i grabbed AnAnt because we dont boot into untity
[16:42] <holstein> by default
[16:43] <ScottL> AnAnt, but i can assure you, it is not a gconf settings, unity is a completely different xsession than gnome
[16:43] <ScottL> it's very aking to the differences between xfce, kde, and gnome
[16:43] <ScottL> s/aking/akin
[16:43] <ailo> holstein, What do you mean? Including realtime code into the main kernel source?
[16:43] <AnAnt> ScottL: ah, thanks
[16:43] <ScottL> and it functions similarly as to how you can choose between the three during login
[16:44] <holstein> ailo: nah, im on this other thing
[16:44] <ScottL> AnAnt, i'm sorry that i could not be of better help
[16:44] <AnAnt> ScottL: no worries
[16:44] <ailo> holstein, Ok. No, I wasn't involved in that
[16:45] <azm> ailo, ok, thanks
[16:56] <Kokito> re
[16:56] <Kokito> ScottL: I am ready, sorry for the long wait
[16:56] <Kokito> ScottL: I read your summary on the website in the mailing list
[16:58] <Kokito> I guess my first question would be: specifically about the theme, I have a question: what is the motivation to move away from the current website theme?
[16:58] <ScottL> Kokito, any concerns, questions, suggestions, random statements
[16:58] <ScottL> lol
[16:59] <ScottL> okay, the current website hasn't been updating in a long time
[16:59] <ScottL> we felt that as long as we were going to update it we might as well put forward a new theme
[16:59] <ScottL> i don't really care which way we go (as long as someone isn't suggestions a My Little Pony theme)
[17:00] <ScottL> but the point is, i want a website that will encourage people to use it and that is functional
[17:00] <Kokito> I think there are two aspects
[17:01] <Kokito> one is the structure of the website, how to develop it ideally to meet your goals in terms of appealing to your target audience
[17:01] <Kokito> the other is the theme, that is, the looks. this one should be one component of your overall identity or brand
[17:01] <Kokito> about the former, I think what you described in your email seems fine
[17:02] <ScottL> good :)
[17:02] <Kokito> there seem to be som decisions to make, like whether to go with the Ubuntu wiki/forums or have your own, but that's not a technical issue
[17:02] <Kokito> Drupal can accomodate both wiki-style content and forums as well
[17:03] <Kokito> on the latter, I am not sure what your goal is in terms of brand, so it is hard to comment
[17:03] <Kokito> and by latter, I mean the theme
[17:03] <ScottL> Kokito, to be honest, if it is less work (certainly less invasive) to keep the current theme and modify it, then by all means, that's the way to go
[17:03] <ScottL> becuase currently, progress is simply not happening
[17:03] <Kokito> I am willing to put the work on developing a new theme
[17:04] <Kokito> but I need to understand the brand where it has to fit into
[17:04] <ScottL> as for developing a goal in terms of branding, i haven't really explored that
[17:04] <Kokito> short of that, I could come up with something and see if it sticks :)
[17:04] <ScottL> did you look at the two other themes that were proposed?
[17:04] <ScottL> do you have comments on those?
[17:04] <ScottL> i'm not suggesting that we follow those, i'm just curious on your thoughts
[17:05] <Kokito> I saw the one that was linked to from the mailing list and, to be honest, I think the current theme and colors are much better
[17:07] <Kokito> let me pull it out to see if I can give you some specific input
[17:07] <Kokito> this one: http://mousike.dyndns.org/ubuntustudio/
[17:08] <Kokito> first impression is that it is too monotone
[17:09] <Kokito> IMHO, it does not convey an image of playfulness and creatitivy
[17:09] <Kokito> I do like to text logo :)
[17:10] <Kokito> being monotone, it really lacks visual impact
[17:11] <Kokito> UbuntuStudio is supposed to be a tool for creators, so I visualize something with much more visual impact and whizzbang factor :)
[17:13] <ScottL> sorry,was away
[17:13] <ScottL> Kokito, the text logo is something that cory and i worked up together :)
[17:13] <Kokito> I like it :)
[17:13] <ScottL> Kokito, i agree with lack of colors, i think dark, right colors offset against a black background would be nice
[17:14] <ScottL> but i'm not a graphic designer, cory is much, much better than it
[17:14] <Kokito> is the current website running on Drupal? if so, do we know what version?
[17:15] <ailo> Kokito, It's on my server, so I can provide you with access and info
[17:16] <Kokito> ailo: that would be nice
[17:16] <ScottL> Kokito, the current version is on drupal but i don't know which version
[17:16] <ailo> Kokito, I need to look up some things. I can mail you the info later, if that's ok.
[17:17] <ScottL> Kokito, ailo :  the one on ailo's server is not the current site, it is the mock up
[17:17] <Kokito> ailo: sounds like a plan :)
[17:17] <ailo> Oh, I see
[17:17] <ailo> You were talking about the current version
[17:17] <ScottL> Kokito, if you would to create a branding idea, that would be awesome :)
[17:17] <Kokito> ScottL: I can try
[17:18] <ScottL> Kokito, currently only one person has access to the current site on the canonical-hosted website, i'm trying to get it but it might be a month more before they send it to me
[17:18] <Kokito> ScottL: just to give you an idea, I developed the Haiku identity, which you can see here: https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/MyHaikuArtwork#
[17:19] <Kokito> ScottL: sounds like it would be better to host the site ourselves
[17:24] <ailo> Since I already setup a Drupal thing on my server, I won't mind if it used for mockups later on as well. I think my Drupal version is 6.20
[17:24] <Kokito> ScottL: would hosting the site independently pose a problem in regards to the relationship with Canonical?
[17:25] <Kokito> ailo: cool. 6.20 is the lastes D6 rev
[17:25] <Kokito> ailo: I do my development locally
[17:25] <Kokito> when I have something to show, we can put it up online
[17:26] <ailo> Kokito, Just let me know if you need my server for that, then.
[17:26] <ScottL> sorry, back again
[17:27] <ScottL> Kokito, your not the first one to push hosting ourselves, it's just a matter of identifying where the funds will come
[17:28] <ScottL> i don't mind springing for hosting, but i don't want to maintain it indefintely
[17:28] <ScottL> with canonical, it's free hosting for the unforseeable future
[17:29] <Kokito> ScottL: I understand
[17:30] <Kokito> it's just so much more flexible when you run it yourself
[17:30] <ScottL> Kokito, that is very, very true :)
[17:30] <Kokito> and I hear it is pretty difficult to get Canonical to respond on website hosting issues
[17:30] <ScottL> i had wanted to sell ubuntu studio merchandise and use those proceeds to fund some develop and also hosting
[17:30] <ScottL> Kokito, yes, it takes a lot of time :/
[17:31] <Kokito> ScottL: I started the Haiku store on CafePress, so I am familiar with that aspect as well
[17:31] <Kokito> including integrating it into Drupal
[17:35] <ScottL> Kokito, i asked canonical about merchandise and received a rather long and indefitinitive answer
[17:35] <ScottL> but i believe the short answer was "no"
[17:35] <ScottL> so we don't have that vector for funding :(
[17:36] <Kokito> ScottL: unless you change the name and create your own brand
[17:37] <ScottL> that's true, but then we lose the building process, which is all canonical/ubuntu automated building
[17:37] <ScottL> not to mention their iso hosting and bandwidth
[17:37] <ScottL> i've given thought to this before
[17:37] <Kokito> I see
[17:38] <ScottL> we could separate from ubuntu and rename/rebrand but i think we aren't setup for it as well
[17:38] <ScottL> the ubuntu studio team is pretty small and still pretty new to development
[17:39] <ScottL> i would say that that most if not practically all of the "old guard" who were experienced and knowledge have moved on to other things
[17:39] <ScottL> or are just peripherally involved when asked directly
[17:39] <ScottL> but i offer this...
[17:39] <ScottL> if we have a website that is ready to implement and we cannot move forward because of canonical,
[17:40] <ScottL> (especially given that i've been trying to get proper access to the site for months)
[17:40] <ScottL> we will host ourselves even if i have to dip into my personal "fun stuff" cache and pay for a year or two of hosting
[17:41] <ScottL> i say "i've been trying for months" which isn't to lay all the blame at their feet,
[17:41] <ScottL> i had requested the access, waited a month or more and got the code, but it was gpg'd using an older key of mine
[17:41] <ScottL> so that is my fault
[17:41] <ScottL> but i've asked for it again, while explaining the problem and expressing that it was my fault, but that's been probably over a month ago
[17:42] <Kokito> ScottL: if it comes to that, I am pretty sure we can find hosting without having to dip into our own pockets :)
[17:42] <Kokito> btw, ScottL , I am pretty sure Kubuntu has a store of their own
[17:42] <ScottL> Kokito, but also we have someone who _does_ have access on the team, although he has seemed to disappear for several months, but pops up every now and then and says he wants to help :/
[17:43] <ScottL> Kokito, i thought i looked at the kubuntu store and determined that it was acutally still the canonical store, but i could be wrong
[17:43] <ScottL> i'll look again later
[17:47] <Kokito> ScottL: I am pretty sure there is a case to make with Canonical about selling merchandise to raise funds for the project
[17:47] <ScottL> oh, i would love too, even if we shared the revenue
[17:48] <ScottL> i think it would be minor though, *shrug* but i could be wrong about that as well
[17:48] <ScottL> i know *i* would buy some stuff ;)
[17:48] <ScottL> Kokito, i'd like to summarize our discussion in email and include cory on it
[17:48] <ScottL> he's really the creative and artistic force in ubuntu studio
[17:49] <Kokito> sounds good ScottL 
[17:49] <ScottL> that's not to say that dick macinnis (the new art lead) isn't creative or artistic, he just hasn't made himself felt yet since he just started
[17:49] <ScottL> cory is the one that pretty much by shear force of will, got ubuntu studio off the ground (of course based on work others had started)
[17:50] <ScottL> and cory has a definitive eye about design
[17:50] <Kokito> ScottL: sounds good
[17:50] <ScottL> i think it's rather telling that you and cory both have made almost the same comments about our existing website
[17:50] <Kokito> I will wait for his response before I dig into the new theme then :)
[17:50] <ScottL> okay, i'll send it in a few hours, need to do stuff with family
[17:50] <Kokito> same here :)
[17:50] <Kokito> enjoy your Sunday!
[17:51] <Kokito> oh, a last one before I go: can you make the IRC log available somewhere>
[17:51] <Kokito> ?
[17:51] <Kokito> would like to read through it to pickup what was discussed in detail
[17:51] <Kokito> thanks!
[18:15] <ScottL> Kokito, they logs are, well, logged
[18:15] <ScottL> i post the link 
[18:16] <ScottL> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/03/
[18:16] <ScottL> look for ubuntustudio-dev down very close to the bottom
[18:16] <ScottL> you can choose either html or txt
[18:17] <ScottL> txt is just text, black and white
[18:17] <ScottL> html has nice colors, one consistent color for each individual
[18:50] <Kokito> thanks ScottL 
[18:50] <Kokito> I wonder if the Horizon theme that you guys were talking about on the meeting is something like this > http://drupal.org/project/newhorizon
[18:52] <Kokito> ah, never mind. saw the mockups in the wiki
[19:28] <ScottL> Kokito, email sent, kinda wandering, but just wanted to get something rolling while i had time to sit down and write it
[21:53] <ronj> hola
[21:54] <ronj> I'm testing todays isos
[21:55] <ronj> couldn't install from the iso, after selecting "install ubuntu studio" the only thing I have is a black screen. maybe I borked the iso to usb, will try again this evening or during the week
[21:57] <ronj> and unfortunately I'm unable to install abogani's lowlatency because of missing headers :-/
[21:57] <ronj> sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency linux-headers-lowlatency linux-headers-2.6.38-8-lowlatency
[21:57] <ronj> returns
[21:57] <ronj> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[21:57] <ronj>  linux-headers-2.6.38-8-lowlatency : Depends: linux-headers-2.6.38-8 but it is not installable
[21:58] <ronj> ScottL, holstein, do you think I should ask abogani for an update of his ppa?
[22:00] <ailo_> ronj, Did you install from usb stic?
[22:00] <ailo_> stick*
[22:00] <ronj> ailo_, yes
[22:00] <ronj> known problem?
[22:01] <ailo_> ronj, Did you solve it? I had to install ubuntustudio-desktop from recovery mode. Only the base system was installed. 
[22:01] <ailo_> ronj, I suppose it is not meant to work from usb stick. I used unetbootin.
[22:02] <ronj> ailo_, no I just ended up installing ubuntu normal and adding ubuntustudio packages
[22:02] <ronj> ailo_, yes it should work fine with usb-creator-gtk
[22:02] <ronj> it's the first time it fails for me...
[22:03] <ronj> but again, maybe i just borked the setup to usb, i'll try again before reporting a problem with the iso
[22:03] <ailo_> ronj, Well, there are two of us now, who had that problem. The screen shut itself off after bootin? 
[22:04] <ailo_> booting*
[22:04] <ronj> well I have the ustudio menu, press ENTER to install, then nothing happens
[22:04] <ronj> ailo_, same symptoms for you?!
[22:05] <ronj> i don't remember whether the screen did shut down
[22:05] <ailo_> ronj, Oh, sorry. I misread before
[22:05] <ailo_> ronj, I thought you had installed. I did, using unetbootin, but not everything was installed. However, installing to Virtualbox was no problem
[22:06] <ronj> hmkay
[22:06] <ailo_> ronj, I don't remember clearly, but I think using usb-creator-gtk has failed for me before, why I automatically thought it would not work
[22:07] <ronj> ok, i'll try unetbootin
[22:08] <ailo_> ronj, Which version of Ubuntustudio has worked for you in the past?
[22:08] <ronj> uh.... from 6.06 to now?
[22:08] <ronj> don't know
[22:09] <ronj> but again, it works now
[22:09] <ronj> it's just that _maybe_ there is a problem with the iso
[22:10] <ailo_> ronj, I have still not had it working for me a single time, but I have not tried that many times
[22:10] <ronj> what is "it"?
[22:11] <ailo_> Installing from usb, or even creating the usb-installer
[22:11] <ronj> ok
[22:12] <ailo_> So, that was also my question about versions. Which version of Ubuntu Studio has worked installing from usb...
[22:12] <ronj> hmmmm at least 9.something
[22:13] <ronj> i've been installing all my oses (windows, linux) exclusively from usb for a few years
[22:15] <ailo_> It's really nice to get rid of those CD's and DVD's
[22:16] <ailo_> I quit installing Ubuntu Studio from DVD when it happened to often that the DVD was corrupt. At least 1/2 of the burns would fail for me
[22:16] <ronj> yup
[22:55] <ailo_> ScottL, I believe https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ubuntu%20Studio%20Upgrade%20from%20Ubuntu is getting some attention because of it's irrelevancy. I did a couple of small edits, but that page should really be rewritten from scratch. I'm thinking what would be the best strategy for keeping info on older releases. The last few releases all have a slightly different setup.
[22:55] <ailo_> I suppose there could be chapter for each release..
[23:00] <ailo_> ScottL, On the "documentation api" we could decide on what strategy to use for multiple releases. 
[23:05] <ScottL> i agree with that :)
[23:05] <ScottL> ailo_, i'll start looking at it tonight
[23:36] <ailo_> I still haven't tried Gnome 3. For some reason novaeau drivers don't play well with my graphic card :(
[23:36] <ailo_> nouveau* ?
[23:54] <ailo> ScottL, I don't agree that Gnome 3 has a single app focus.