[13:48] <reya276> morning everyone
[13:49] <mhall119> morning reya276 
[14:59] <DammitJim> morning
[15:24] <reya276> hey is 11.04 going to be an LTS version?
[15:28] <reya276> also has anyone used 11.04 with an ATI graphics card?
[15:29] <reya276> I am digging this http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/five-neat-unity-lenses-in-development/
[17:04] <Chloric> Hey guys, hey govatent
[17:05] <Chloric> hey mhall, you there?
[17:09] <govatent> i am
[17:10] <Chloric> No cookies gova
[17:11] <Chloric> NO COOKIES
[17:18] <DammitJim> ugh... I was typing an email and I kept hitting tab to complete typing referring (I had only typed refer) 
[18:19] <RoAkSoAx> itnet7: ping
[18:48] <DammitJim> do you guys know why while I'm doing an rsync the system could be skipping files?
[18:48] <DammitJim> is there a log the rsync creates?
[19:05] <mhall119> DammitJim: did you specify files to be excluded?
[19:05] <mhall119> is it not following symlinks?
[19:06] <mhall119> do you not have read-permissions for those files?
[19:21] <reya276> hey I was reading a couple of articles about Unity. There are some folks whom are saying is unusable. To be this seems weird because I have been using it since last week Friday and it run and works pretty well.
[19:22] <mhall119> reya276: when they say it's unusable, read it as "It's different from what I'm used to and change scares me"
[19:23] <mhall119> people said the same about moving window controls to the left
[19:23] <mhall119> turns out, our brains aren't hard-wired to a specific computer interface, and we can all adapt fairly easily
[19:24] <reya276> then there are those stating that they are going to move away from ubuntu and stuff like that. Seriously I'm starting to get pretty disgusted with some
[19:24] <reya276> of these Linux users, I believe and feel that thus far this has been the best Linux distribution ever.
[19:24] <mhall119> reya276: don't worry too much about it, there are always some people that say that about every change in every cycle
[19:25] <mhall119> honestly though, it shouldn't be a problem that people switch distros, that's the whole point of having multiple distros
[19:25] <DammitJim> mhall119, no, not at all: rsync -rtvx --delete /opt/pics /media/backup/
[19:25] <mhall119> if Fedora fits their needs better, then they should switch.
[19:25] <reya276> Also here is a Guy(Mark) whom is pretty much putting up the cash for all of this, while creating jobs and bringing people together in the process and all people 
[19:25] <reya276> can do is complaint and be selfish
[19:26] <mhall119> DammitJim: I'm not sure then, rsync isn't my strong suit
[19:26] <mhall119> reya276: like I said, don't worry too much about it
[19:27] <mhall119> some people will leave for other distros, others will came into Ubuntu because of Unity.  Distro usage is and should be fluid
[19:27] <reya276> oh I'm not worried its more of me being angry about it. People suck and very often have zero common sense
[19:28] <mhall119> true, but it's not worth the added blood pressure of getting angry over it
[19:28] <reya276> and your right but they should not bad mouth or somehow make it seem as though Mark/Ubuntu/Unity is the worst thing to have hit this planet
[19:30] <mhall119> shouldn't, but it's gonna happen.  The best we can do is not let that kind of thing side-track us from making Ubuntu what we want it to be
[19:30] <reya276> what I don't understand is what part of Unity is not usable? I mean they don't give any specifics
[19:31] <mhall119> reya276: like I said, it's just that it's different
[19:31] <reya276> so the damn thing does not run on a P4 and you need a good graphics card so what
[19:31] <mhall119> it probably will run on a P4, and all you need is something with an OpenGL capable chipset
[19:32] <mhall119> my EeePC 701, with it's 900MHz Celeron can run Unity, though it can be slow at times
[19:33] <reya276> well I see it like this if it is going to attract more people and get more products/drivers and mainstream software to be available for Ubuntu/Linux then I'm all for it.
[19:34] <govatent> i just loaded ubuntu on a 2ghz celeron with 512 mb of ddr1 ram. runs ok. nvidia 32 mb geforce 440 agp gpu
[19:35] <reya276> well but for something like that it would be better to use Elementary OS or Mint and it is still Debian/Ubuntu based
[19:35] <mhall119> Unity isn't really heavy, and offloading more to the GPU frees the CPU for better uses
[19:36] <mhall119> remember, Unity is just an extra Compiz plugin
[19:36] <reya276> really?
[19:37] <mhall119> pretty much
[19:37] <reya276> wow
[19:37] <mhall119> it's a pretty complex and powerful compiz plugin
[19:37] <mhall119> but it's not like it's a whole new desktop UI
[19:37] <mhall119> it's still mostly Gnome
[19:37] <crashsystems> yeah, doing it all in compiz seemed kinda weird, but I'm liking the results
[19:37] <reya276> so what happens if compiz stops working then the entire system goes?
[19:38] <crashsystems> reya276: compiz restarts
[19:38] <mhall119> reya276: I think, for 11.04 anyway, you fall back to the "classic" gnome desktop if Compiz won't run
[19:38] <reya276> ah ok
[19:38] <mhall119> right, what crashsystems said, compiz will restart if it's just a crash
[19:38] <reya276> I have it on my laptop now and it runs fairly well
[19:38] <mhall119> in 11.10, Unity 2D will be the fallback if you can't run Compiz
[19:39] <reya276> well it actually runs great
[19:40] <reya276> is 11.04 an LTS version?
[19:40] <crashsystems> I think 12.04 will be lts
[19:41] <crashsystems> they probably would not put a brand new gnome shell on an LTS
[19:42] <reya276> oh so 10.04 is going to last until 12.04 is released then
[19:42] <reya276> because that is what I'm running on all of our servers here
[19:43] <reya276> except for our email server which is at 8.04
[19:43] <crashsystems> IIRC there is some overlap with LTSes so you don't have to switch the moment a new one comes out. Also, server LTS lasts longer than desktop LTS
[19:44] <reya276> yeah, I'm not using the actual server versions, my boss wants the damn desktop on them
[19:45] <crashsystems> o_O
[19:45] <crashsystems> well you could install the server version and then apt-get install a gnome desktop
[19:46] <crashsystems> I think there is a meta package for a minimal gnome install, so you don't waste space on things like openoffice etc
[19:46] <reya276> so that non-savvy linux users can use it just like if they were using windows, which I think it sucks, I told him we can use Lanscape or Webmin to manage them but it fell on death ears
[19:46] <crashsystems> that way could could have a gui and a longer support lts, plus server kernel
[19:47] <reya276> gnome or Ubuntu desktop?
[19:47] <crashsystems> gnome. the ubuntu-desktop package will install gnome and all the stuff that comes on the default desktop cd
[19:47] <crashsystems> gnome will just give you X and a basic gnome desktop
[19:48] <reya276> yeah I had no idea you could do that, but its all the same thing with the exception of not having the cloud services
[19:48] <crashsystems> then you selectively install the things you need
[19:49] <crashsystems> well, the server kernel is different from the desktop kernel, and a desktop install has lots of stuff you don't need, even if you do need a gui
[19:49] <reya276> ah ok, that is what I will do then in the future
[19:49] <crashsystems> I think the package is gnome-minimal or some such, but I don't have ubuntu in front of me ATM
[19:50] <reya276> well me personally I have gotten used to using webmin to do everything or CLI
[19:52] <reya276> the one thing I have noticed about the desktop version as opposed to the server version is that for example if you want to add multiple IP addresses to your network connection it is easier to do it in the desktop version
[19:53] <reya276> since all you got to do is right-click and modify the connection and just add IPs as oppose to finding the network config file and all that
[19:54] <crashsystems> now that I'm in web security and have played with webmin a bit, I cringe to think of all the vulnerabilities webmin likely has.
[19:54] <reya276> so if you have windows admins whom have never touched a Linux server that would be the best way to introduced them to it
[19:55] <reya276> right but webmin is never used on external IP addresses
[19:56] <crashsystems> having it internal only helps, but it does not solve the problem
[19:57] <crashsystems> internal only IP would not prevent XSS or CSRF
[20:06] <reya276> yes that is true
[20:07] <reya276> I wonder what is the difference between landscape and webmin
[20:08] <crashsystems> my job has made me much more paranoid about the internet
[20:09] <crashsystems> IIRC landscape focuses on clustered package management and reporting, plus is ubuntu spcific, while webmin is more generalized, multi-distro and is not focused on clustering.
[20:10] <reya276> well but we have configured webmin in a clustered enviornment
[20:10] <reya276> as it has the capability of doing so
[20:11] <crashsystems> it has some clustering capabilities, but thats not its strong point, and it wouldn't scale very well