/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/04/#ubuntustudio-devel.txt

ailoBut, the changes are pretty big.00:09
ailoI think it will take some time to get used to these new UI's. Also, one wonders how those will be adopted and used. Gnome 3, the way it looks to me, is Gnome with a new panel. Windows themselves seem to work the same as before, with resizing and such00:15
ScottLailo, for gnome3 it seemed that rhythmbox had an entire window and when i started another app (don't remember which) it took over the whole screen02:42
ailoScottL, You can always minimize the apps. 02:43
ailoI mean, make them smaller02:43
ScottLwhen i moved my cursor over to the right, a panel came up with the two apps and i could choose between them02:43
ailounmaximize02:43
ScottLlol, different way to say it :)02:43
ScottLi also heard that gnome is removing the min, max buttons from the window02:44
ScottLthey didn't ask the community, it was a design decision within the core group02:44
ScottLi'm building excitement about using xfce (if we choose to go that way)02:46
ailoScottL, They also want to keep supporting gnome 2 apps, so I don't know. I can't believe they would replace one thing with another, if it is not functional on a Desktop, but then again, I'm not aware of their goals02:46
ScottLwe will see at some point i suppose02:46
ScottLbut i would really like to have a viable  contingency plan however02:47
ailoScottL, I don't see XFCE as the future. I can only see it as a safe transition. For me, it's one step back in some way02:47
ScottLailo, what would you suggest or recommend?02:47
ailoGnome 3 is so young. And, I at least have no idea about their plans02:47
ScottLhave you used unity at all?  their functionality seems to be very similar02:48
ailoI think XFCE might be the best choice for 11.10. During that time people will have time to test Gnome 3. 02:48
ScottLnot in specific methodologies, but in overall approaches02:48
ScottLbut even if we found the "perfect" base from which to build, it still may not be viable02:49
ScottLsimply because we lack the developer resources02:49
ScottLailo, which part of xfce do you see as a step back?02:50
ScottLis there missing functionality that was present in gnome?02:50
ailoDon't think there is any functionality missing compared with Gnome 2. It's just simpler, and maybe not as tweakable. It's a traditional desktop.02:53
ailoI mean, there are probably things you can do with XFCE that you can't with Gnome, but, it's still not the same.02:54
ailoI used XFCE when I had Puredyne installed02:54
ailoI just don't see it as the future. But, for Ubuntu Studio, I think stability, performance and ease of use is most important. With XFCE those things should be no problem02:57
ScottLi see several substantial benefits if we go with xfce02:58
ScottL* we effectively have a larger developer resource pool02:58
ScottL* it could be argued that this developer resource pool will have more experience and knowledge02:59
ScottL* i believe we will have easier access to creating a live dvd02:59
ScottL* the xfce developers will be acting as a buffer between us (studio devs) and the desktop03:00
ScottLmeaning that when an icon doesn't show up in our stuff, most likely someone else than from our team will address it03:00
ScottL* presumably we will be using a DE requiring less memory03:01
ScottLand i wouldn't be surprised if cory wasn't able to come up with a pretty snazzy desktop as well for xfce03:02
ScottLmost likely all blacks and grays again03:02
* ScottL admits that he is partial to dark themes03:03
ailoScottL, If Gnome 3 will be tweakable to a nice degree, I think it will rule. Just now, I couldn't find a way to change the theme even, but that will of course change. Ubuntu, going for Wayland in Unity and there's been talk about QT as well, dropping X. Perhaps there will be no single best choice for a desktop for a while. Could depend on the machine as much as the user. Anyway, the user will be able to choose either way.03:09
ailoDon't know what Gnome 3 is planning in regard for X, for instance03:10
ailoI mean Gnome, not Gnome 303:11
ailoI read somewhere that Gnome will also go for Wayland later on03:12
ScottLgood guess03:12
ScottLi've heard the x is horrible in terms of retaining legacy code and is quite bulky03:12
ScottLi think ubuntu got the hole shot with moving to wayland (or at least announcing it)03:13
ScottLeven though they got skewered in the media originally (and by the pundits)03:13
ScottLnot that i'm necessarily a canonical/ubuntu fanboi, because i'm not03:13
ailoMost people don't seem to like change, which is perhaps not the strongest reason for people objecting. I can understand first impressions can do that, because the UI is not presented well, or is not working well yet.03:16
ailoBut, with a little imagination, I think both Unity and Gnome 3 look pretty good, in different ways.03:17
ScottLyeah, that's true03:17
ScottLi'm less impressed with unity, but i think it's for a different audience03:17
ScottLi think gnome3 looked brilliant, kinda like kde in some ways, but i though it looked really, really good03:18
ailoI agree. Unity seems more tuned towards mobile devices.03:18
ScottLabsolutely, or touch tablets03:18
ScottLi was actually a bit jealous of how good gnome3 looked :)03:19
TheMuso`I think the unity launcher needs to be movable, i.e bottom, right, left, etc.03:31
TheMuso`But other than that, unity is very Mac OS esc.03:32
holsteinTheMuso`: AGREED03:32
holsteini keep thiking thats going to be in an update03:32
TheMuso`I also don't like the menus not being shown unless you mouse over them.03:32
holsteinno reason to lock it in place03:32
TheMuso`Users WILL get confused with that, for sure.03:32
holsteinTheMuso`: i hope its not too different03:33
holsteinfolks typically dont like that much change03:33
holsteinbut, i do like the direction03:33
holsteini think that was the biggest problem with vista03:34
holsteinit was SO much different than XP03:34
holsteinall the OSX's are more similar to each other i find03:35
TheMuso`OS X's core design hasn't changed since it was released, and now for Lion things are going to change slightly.03:35
ScottLTheMuso`, do you have any comments on possibly moving to xfce?03:45
TheMuso`ScottL: Nothing other than possibly less memory/resources used.04:24
TheMuso`And that the panels may not be customizable, but I could be wrong there.04:24
ScottLTheMuso`, here's what cory has already worked up:  http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6728/screenshotoof.png04:30
TheMuso`Nice.04:30
=== jussi01_ is now known as jussi
=== irvie is now known as irv
=== jussi01 is now known as Guest91608
=== TheMuso` is now known as TheMuso
ailoscott-work, padevchooser should be removed to. It's not working and I don't think there's any use for it anyway. 12:56
ailotoo*12:56
scott-workailo: i'll try to dig into that tonight when i'm home13:23
scott-workTheMuso: if you haven't already removed -controls from the seeds can you wait a day or two?13:24
scott-worki'd like to review what ailo is suggesting13:24
rlameiroscott-work: ping14:24
scott-workhi rlameiro :)14:25
rlameirohey :D14:26
rlameiroI just found a website that I found amazing14:26
rlameiroremeber that idea you had for the website14:26
rlameiroa kind of place to show newcommers and alike about the software in it?14:26
rlameiroscott-work: well..... http://screencasters.heathenx.org/ 14:27
rlameiroamazing screencasts CC by SA 3.0 about inkscape14:27
rlameiroamazing resource to point to people comming :D14:27
holsteininkscape has those nice tutorials in it too14:27
holsteinrlameiro: o/14:28
scott-workrlameiro: it is, i've used a few of their tutorials for inkscape :D14:28
rlameirowell, not much news then14:28
rlameiroI just found them now...14:28
scott-worki think it was troy who turned me onto heathenx and screencasters14:28
scott-worktheir awesome!14:28
scott-workthey've helped me with video and blender as well14:29
rlameiroI do think we could put them on the ubuntu studio page14:29
scott-workthey have a couple of good, simplistic tutorials for blender and video editing14:29
rlameiromaybe under Resources or stuff14:29
rlameiromicrosodes...14:29
scott-workrlameiro: absolutely!14:29
scott-workespecially if we can hand pick particular videos for the topics we want to discuss14:29
rlameirothey even have the video in OGV!!!!!!14:29
scott-work:D14:30
scott-worki probably should view the videos available again, i haven't really looked at the website for several months14:30
scott-workand to be honest, rlameiro, i had forgotten about them and linking it to having tutorials on our website14:31
rlameiro106 episodes....14:31
rlameiroThis is way better than an online scam course :D14:31
scott-worki notice they haven't made any new videos in a while though :(14:49
rlameirowell, 106 videos its a lot of videos :D14:50
scott-workhehe, that is very, very true14:52
scott-worki was playing around with making a video over the weekend14:53
scott-workit's very, very rough at this point - http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/video/intro0001-7275.ogg14:53
* rlameiro watching14:53
scott-workthe size is too big for one thing and there is no sound at this point14:54
scott-worki need to adjust the narrative as well as i realize this doesn't properly address the audience i had intended14:54
scott-workin fact i think this probably should be broken into two separate, three-to-four minute videos14:54
scott-workthere are some technical problems, like a borked end of a video, to address14:55
scott-workBUT, for a first foray into making an introductory video for ubuntu studio, i'm pretty happy that i was able to quickly and painlessly create what i did14:55
rlameiroit is very nice intro14:56
rlameiropeople could submit audio for it14:56
rlameirodoes the logo of studio changed to orang too?14:56
rlameiroorange?14:56
scott-workrlameiro: not necessarily, it's just the one "recent" logo that i had locally as an .svg file15:01
rlameirooh, so this is like a test script?15:02
scott-workrlameiro: i was joking about the "propagana and relations division, multimedia department, vidoe medium <whatever i said here>"15:02
scott-workjust being silly15:02
rlameirolol15:02
scott-workmainly, this was a proof-of-concept video at this point, just to show it can be done, and done fairly well15:03
rlameirowell I did liked it very much15:03
scott-worki would like it to develop into something nice and something we might use15:03
scott-workrlameiro: thank you :)15:03
rlameiroI am picturing it on the center of the webpage for something like15:03
rlameiroWhat is Ubuntu studio?15:03
scott-workbut as i said, this probably may need to be rethought on target audience and goals15:03
rlameirosome html5 video stuff :D15:04
scott-workrlameiro: exactly!  think of someone who does not use ubuntu or linux and is a musician, they have heard about this "ubuntu studio thing" and want to learn more15:04
scott-workwe should POUNCE on that, grab it like a life line, and educate that person15:04
rlameiroyeap15:04
rlameiroThis could be the intro video15:05
scott-worknot just entice that person, but COMPEL them to want to use ubuntu studio15:05
rlameiroand then have one showing Ardour15:05
rlameiroJACK, Inkscape, Gimp15:05
rlameiroperforming some task from beggining to end15:05
scott-work"you want to record music?  you don't want to blow a bajillion bucks for ProTools, Fruity Loops, et al?  Try Ubuntu Studio"15:05
scott-work"it is FREE!!!111ONE  that's right FREE"15:06
rlameirofor instance, how to edit a 2 minute podcast, mixing music with recorded speech and normalizing etc15:06
scott-work"have low end hardware?  it will still work (most likely)!"15:06
rlameirolol15:06
rlameirounlimited tracks, well depens on how much ram you have15:06
scott-workbut anyone, i was thinking about a heirachal approach to the videos15:06
scott-worka beginning one to itnroduce the concept of ubuntu studio and free open source software15:07
scott-workanother one to show some of the most appreciated "features"15:07
scott-workagain, i want these to educate people so they want to use ubuntu studio because of what it offers15:07
rlameirowell there is a need for one explaining JACK, as it is one of the most "asked" topic15:08
rlameiroseting up15:08
rlameiromost of the people even dont understand how it works15:08
scott-workthis week i'll be thinking more about what i want to audience and goals15:08
scott-workrlameiro: those can come, but i didn't think we needed those right off the bat15:08
rlameiroscott-work: yes, of course. 15:09
scott-worki wouldn't even say that a "this is jack" level video would be on the front page15:09
=== JayFo is now known as JFo
scott-workbut it certainly would be helpful to a lot of people i readily admit15:09
scott-workand we should have one or a link to one at least15:09
rlameiromoe than anything explaining jack concept15:09
rlameiromost new people into audio doesnt get the "pro" concept of audio routing15:10
scott-worki wholeheartedly agreed15:13
scott-workespecially coming from a windows background15:13
scott-workthey don't even think of an audio "server"15:13
scott-work"you mean there is something i can control or direct for audio?"15:13
rlameiroyeah15:13
rlameiroI am think at thi moment on a video for it15:14
scott-work"it isn't done automatically?  that's how my windows computer does it!  i just have speaker icon on the bottom right to 'control' it"15:14
rlameirowith some depictions introducing real life situations15:14
rlameirolike an studio.... from the MIc goes to a Pre amp, then goes to a Fx processor, then to a mixer, then in the mixer is routed to the main out etc15:15
rlameirowith some diagrams and stuff15:15
rlameirovery earthy15:15
scott-workrlameiro: do you think you could outline the videos you think we would need?15:20
scott-workrough outline is fine15:20
scott-workif we could create a framework and define what needs to be done i think we have a better chance of not only encouraging others to help (because they will know exactly what needs to be done)15:20
scott-workbut we will also have a better chance of actually accomplishing our goal then15:20
rlameiroscott-work: sure, I can outline the jack one15:31
rlameiroI could do some others maybe15:31
rlameirofollowing loosely the workflows15:31
scott-workrlameiro: i wouldn't get bogged down with every little possible video we could do...15:33
scott-worktry to focus on the ones that new users or people with moderate experience will NEED15:33
rlameiroyes, maybe for now 3 or 4 to start15:33
scott-workto become competent with ubuntu studio15:33
scott-workthink top down15:33
scott-workintro ubuntu studio15:33
scott-workdefine some concepts (like jack)15:33
scott-workshow a simplistic tutorial on how to get sound through the system15:34
scott-workshow a simplistic tutorial on how to record sound in ardour15:34
scott-workmaybe a simple mixing tutorial15:34
scott-workmaybe a simple mastering tutorial15:34
scott-worksomething like that15:34
rlameirowell, that would be latter15:34
scott-workgranted there are things i probably left out of there that might go between some of those15:34
rlameirothe maybes that is15:34
scott-workright15:35
scott-work :)15:35
rlameiroHow to edit scores15:35
scott-workbut you see the flow of what i'm talking about15:35
rlameirohow to do a simple LOGO 15:35
rlameiroHow to edit a photo15:35
scott-workyeah, i was thinking about midi stuff as well15:35
rlameirohow to route midi aand audio from a soft synth15:35
scott-workyep15:36
rlameirowhere do you put this in? WebRevamp?15:36
scott-workbut we should focus on keeping each of the as accessible to the generl public as possible and still make them functional15:36
scott-workrlameiro: i dont' know where these will go eventually...i am hoping the new website15:36
scott-workor it could be a ubuntu studio youtube channel15:36
scott-workor a ubuntu studio vimeo channel15:36
scott-workor all of these :)15:37
rlameiroI would dare the videos to be reprucible by the users15:37
rlameirosomething like taking the source audio file from a specif place on archive.org for instance15:37
scott-workright, the purpose of the video is to baffle them with our knowledge but to help them understand it and be able to use it15:37
rlameiroscott-work: no... in the wiki15:37
scott-workrlameiro: oh, do you mean "where should the outline go?"15:37
rlameiroyeap15:38
scott-worki think this may need another webpage, like "tutorial video project" or similiar15:38
rlameirohummm15:38
scott-workit probably needs another page or get lost amongst all the others15:38
rlameirowhat about IntroTutVideo15:38
scott-works/others/other work15:38
scott-workyeah, i'm less worried about the exact name :P  but feel very strongly about it having it's own page15:39
rlameirooki15:39
scott-workthis way we might even be able to make a matrix and have people sign up for videos, keep track of what is done, rearrange what we feel is priority, etc15:39
rlameiroscott-work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos#preview15:47
rlameirohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos15:47
scott-workcan i ask you to add another dimension to your structure?  the dimension of importance or order of introduction (the most important being addressed first)15:48
scott-workrlameiro: 15:48
scott-workconsider someone who knows almost nothing about ubuntu studio but is computer literate, maybe familiar with windows and mac15:49
scott-workthey are fluent enough to move to a new system without hand holding15:49
scott-workbut we are holding their hand to learn how to use ubuntu studio to record audio/make graphics/make a video15:50
rlameiroscott-work: reedited15:50
scott-worknot to learn how to use ubuntu studio to install new software, or browse the internet, or those other pedestrian tasks15:50
rlameirohummm15:50
rlameirowell this was like the big picture but it could be something like edit a podcast for ardour15:51
rlameiromaybe15:51
rlameiroscott-work: somethink more like this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos15:57
falktxwow, is this discussion about ubuntu tutorials?15:57
falktxvideo...15:57
scott-workyes falktx  :)15:58
falktxscott-work: rlameiro: AutoStatic and [lsd] already have some nice tutorials15:58
falktxawesome!15:58
rlameiroyes15:58
* falktx hopes to make good tutorials some day...15:58
rlameirothis are for introduction15:58
scott-workrlameiro: it's moving towards what i'm thinking, i'll do some stuff at lunch (about 2 hours hence)15:58
rlameirothe idea is to link to others tutorials after that for more in depth stuff15:58
rlameirofor instance under the midi categorry / sofsynth we could link to [lsd] tutorials about seq2416:00
rlameirobut this are for new commers16:00
rlameirofalktx: if you have some idea, please tell :D16:00
falktxrlameiro: create a hosting service team?16:01
falktxyoutube, vimeo or whatever16:01
falktxa specific team/channel for this16:01
falktxof course, it needs a cool webpage for 3rd party tuts too16:02
rlameirofalktx: yeap, scott-work already tought about that :D16:04
falktxso, what's the plan?16:05
scott-workfalktx: we're just talking about making the plan...a meta-plan or planning the plan if you will :P16:05
rlameirofalktx: create vidos that atract new users to ubuntu studio16:05
rlameiropeople comminf from mac / win16:05
rlameirowith specific and simple tasks16:05
scott-workfalktx: basically i also want to make videos that teach people who are ignorant about ubunt ustudio16:06
scott-workfalktx: it helps people understand that it can help them record audio, or make videos, or pretty graphics, all for free16:06
scott-workfalktx: but it does so in a simple, direct way that will compel them, not just entice them, to download ubuntu studio and use it16:07
rlameiroscott-work: I am sure Ricardo LaFuente would love to do the inkscape one :D16:07
rlameirohe loves to teach others :D16:07
scott-workrlameiro: but again, it would be a series, show them the basics first...16:07
scott-workexplain what a svg is, why it is better that bitmap16:07
scott-workand move from there16:07
falktxah, back to basics16:07
rlameiroI am sure he would do that way better than me :D16:08
scott-workshow them why they should learn inkscape, why it's better than gimp or others16:08
scott-workwhy it's imperative they use it16:08
scott-workagain, this is about educating ignorant people and helping them and moderately experienced people become competent16:08
rlameirolol16:08
scott-workbut as falktx said we need to hit the basics first16:09
rlameiro" THE UBUNTU STUDIO ACADEMIE"16:09
rlameiroheheh16:09
scott-workwell, yeah :D16:09
rlameirothe name just popped into my mind16:09
scott-workthis is as much about ubuntu studio as it is about FOSS16:09
scott-workwe need to show them that there is a viable alternative to all the other stuff, and our stuff rocks harder in many areas16:10
falktxscott-work: rlameiro: please check this - http://www.blenderguru.com/16:10
rlameiroscott-work: check the overview. is it something like that?16:13
rlameiromissplaced, just changed it16:13
scott-workfalktx: i will look at that16:15
* scott-work secretly is in love with blender16:15
scott-workrlameiro: i will check the change as well16:16
falktxblender2.6 will be the greatest thing ever16:16
falktxeven greater than ardour316:16
scott-worki'm using nightly blender build in ppa from built from svn16:17
scott-workit's pretty awesome :)16:17
scott-workdifferent from 2.5 but a huge step in the right direction16:17
rlameiroscott-work: dude, you are the man of the 7 instruments :D16:17
scott-workrlameiro: i find that i'm good at many, many things...just not great at any of them though16:18
falktxblender is a good video editor16:18
falktxwith jack support now, it becomes a serious alternative16:18
rlameiroscott-work: that was a good thing some time ago... sadly16:18
scott-workfalktx: this is a video i played with this weekend   http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/video/intro0001-7275.ogg16:18
scott-workfalktx: made with blender and inkscape, the video was recorded with gth-recordmydesktop16:19
falktxscott-work: haha, no render?16:19
scott-workoh, oh, by "video" i meant the recording my desktop to show what i'm describing16:19
falktxah, k16:19
* falktx downloads16:19
scott-workand that's gtk16:19
scott-workcrap...the video you are downloaded was done in blender and rendered as well16:20
scott-workthe term "video" after "made with blender and inkscape" is the small parts of the downloading video that are recorded desktop sections16:20
scott-workfalktx: anyways, it's sort of the proof-of-concept and needs to be majorly reworked both in scope and context16:21
scott-workand its' the wrong size and doesn't have any sound yet16:21
falktxscott-work: it's big download anyway16:22
scott-workfalktx: aye, i wasn't refined when i did it, i just wanted it to render at this point16:28
scott-workand i took whatever format setting it came with originally16:28
scott-workfalktx: as to the blenderguru, that is something we should defintely link from our website, even if there are not specific tutorials that our users might need16:30
falktxyep16:30
scott-workit shows just how powerful blender is16:30
falktxscott-work: the video has issues with mplayer, I need to use vlc to view it16:33
scott-workfalktx: yeah, it blender did something funny in that it rendered a video as a .ogg file (?)16:33
falktxscott-work: it's a good video, although I think you still have a lot of text16:34
scott-workfalktx: i still want to finish more of the video (just to complete my current thrust even if it doesn't properly address the audience or goals) and put it up on vimeo or youtube or something16:34
scott-workfalktx: yes, lots of text...i want to add audio still, spots of music and some talking perhaps16:35
scott-workfalktx: any suggestions you have for my video would be very welcome16:42
falktxscott-work: give me some time, kinda working now...16:43
scott-workfalktx: sure :)16:43
scott-workrlameiro: working on the wiki now, made some changes and saved it...will continue working as i can throughtout the day19:02
rlameirook19:03
rlameiroI just came back from the groseery store and need to go to a teacher meeting...19:03
rlameiroboring19:03
rlameiroscott-work: man, you really have the gift for the word :D19:07
scott-workrlameiro: thanks :)  i just like to hammer stuff until i have it organized in my head, then the writing is easy :)19:08
rlameiro:)19:08
scott-workheh, ailo, basically i took what you and i talked about and inflicted it on the stuff rlameiro had done: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos19:45
scott-workit's probably way too much for video tutorials, but it's kinda together and somewhat on it's way to being organized19:45
scott-workof course it really is a more comprehesive documentation/video tutorial outline though19:45
scott-workwhich is okay, we can separate things later but i wouldn't mind if you added some to it as well or corrected things as you see them19:46

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!