/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/05/#ubuntu-accessibility.txt

PendulumTheMuso: do you have a preference between a meeting at 2100UTC and 2200UTC (Wednesday)02:14
TheMusoPendulum: 2200 would be much preferable, ut I can make 2100 if absolutely necessary.02:15
TheMusoIts worth noting that I am now UTC +10.02:16
Pendulumokay, so 2200 is 8AM for you?02:16
TheMusoYes.02:16
Pendulum(I've never been quite sure what timezone you were in so that is very helpful, thanks!)02:16
TheMusoI am usually close to the point of being at the computer by then.02:16
TheMusoSo actually getting to the computer and attending the meeting is no proble, :)02:17
Pendulum:)02:17
AlanBellhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/brandedonboard.png11:05
AlanBellPendulum: ^^ like that?11:05
Pendulum?11:05
PendulumAlanBell: sorry, I'm missing context here11:06
AlanBellonboard with the ubuntu font and orange branding11:08
Pendulumthe orange hurts11:09
Pendulumotherwise it's fine11:09
Pendulumalthough I suspect that people who really need high contrast (since *gasp* some people have mobility and vision problems) might not like the black on grey either11:10
AlanBellhmm, ok, I toned it down on the keys11:10
Pendulumbtw, the gasp was not aimed so much at you11:10
Pendulumjust the general brain parts of people that makes them assume that if you have one impairment you won't have others11:10
AlanBellyeah11:10
AlanBellI just had a thought that bringing this into the branding might unlock more Canonical people11:11
Pendulum*nods*11:11
AlanBellmake it an ivanka issue11:11
Pendulumhaha11:11
PendulumI think part of the problem is that by and large the branding isn't great for disabled people11:12
Pendulumthe aubrigine isn't a horrid colour choice, but I know I'm not the only person with orange issues11:12
AlanBellI would like to see more aubergine anyway11:13
PendulumI think that's true for most people other than czajkowski ;-)11:14
* AlanBell is in the same room as czajkowski11:14
Pendulumhi czajkowski! o/11:15
AlanBellsat in a dull presentation11:16
Pendulum:(11:17
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AlanBellso the colours are tweakable quite easily11:20
AlanBellhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/onboard.png11:31
AlanBellmore aubergine, but still orange on keys with nothing important on them (shift and space)11:33
Pendulumcan you make the aubrigine paler?11:33
PendulumI know that makes it not quite conform to norms for keyboard shading, but right now it doesn't have great contrast with the black11:34
AlanBellyes11:34
AlanBellwhich one, the one on the numbers?11:34
AlanBellor tab, return etc?11:34
Pendulumbah, I meant orange11:37
Pendulumthe aubrigine is fine for me11:37
AlanBellyes, I can do11:37
Pendulum(I guess this says how good my brain function is this morning :-/ )11:37
AlanBellthis isn't programming or any special magic12:04
Pendulum*nods*12:05
AlanBelljust editing /usr/share/onboard/layouts/Default-Alpha.svg with Inkscape12:06
AlanBelljust select keys and change the keycap colours12:06
AlanBellI wanted to do fancier stuff, but that doesn't seem to work12:06
AlanBellblending and shading and rounded corners etc12:07
AlanBellbut that doesn't get rendered in onboard12:07
AlanBellI want to get the letters centered on the keycaps but I can't figure out how to do that yet12:09
Pendulum*nods*12:10
AlanBellwhat else needs to be done to onboard to make it look awesome?12:13
AlanBellthe things at the side to switch layouts are pretty confusing12:15
Pendulumfor me, the rounded corners is the biggest thing I can think of visually that would help12:15
AlanBelland when an overlay layout pops up it looks a bit of a mess12:16
Pendulumand, yes12:16
PendulumI didn't even realise those were supposed to do that!12:16
Pendulumlearn something new every day!12:17
PendulumI'd really like some labeling on those side layouts12:20
AlanBellyeah, that should be possible12:23
PendulumI honestly assumed they were random blobs of colour12:24
Pendulumbecause they don't contrast enough either12:24
JanCassuming that most people will already change their theme to something that fits their vision, ideally Onboard would use system colours somehow...?12:25
PendulumJanC: I don't change my theme that much from default because most things the default is fine for me. It's specific colours (like the orange) that I have issues with most of the time12:26
Pendulummaybe a GUI way of changing colours12:27
AlanBellJanC: I kind of agree, however I think that requires more major surgery than I want to do right now12:27
JanCwell, there is support for that in GNOME, if the theme supports it...12:27
Pendulumalthough I think it's probably solvable for most people without needing that12:27
AlanBellright now it is a nasty dated brown12:27
Pendulumyeah12:28
JanCAlanBell: yes, I understand that it's not simple the way Onboard works now12:28
PendulumAFAIK, it's a semi-abandoned project that was a GSOC12:28
Pendulum(which is also why it's Ubuntu-only)12:28
AlanBellI want to update it and get it adopted properly by the design team12:28
JanCis tehre a better alternative?12:28
AlanBellreally a new keyboard would be good12:28
AlanBellthere is no better alternative that is *already* on the CD12:29
AlanBellnot sure if there is a better alternative at all12:29
Pendulumthat's something that was discussed at the last UDS12:29
Pendulumno one was sure about that12:29
AlanBellyup12:29
PendulumI should find the person who ran that session and get him in here12:30
Pendulum(I can't remember who ran it, will look at the blueprint)12:30
JanCI guess replacing it might still be an option *if* it's proven to be better12:30
AlanBellwell right now, we might be able to get new colours and font through and in to Natty12:30
AlanBellreplacing it can go on the UDS agenda again12:31
PendulumI'm planning on picking TheMuso's brain about whether the fixes to a11y in Unity that will come next cycle will get onBoard working with everything in Unity or if there's going to need to be massive stuff done to onBoard12:31
AlanBellright now the keyboard is out of scope for the design team12:31
Pendulumyeah12:31
AlanBellI want to show them that it is a brandable element12:32
PendulumI'm all for that idea :)12:32
Pendulumjohn lea is supposed to be our design team contact (yes, we have one assigned to a11y)12:32
Pendulum(except for on the website stuff, obviously)12:32
AlanBellthat is why I want to get the colours OK visually and I want to get some #dd4814 in there to make the design team think it belongs to them12:33
PendulumAlanBell: can you use it for the outlines of the keys?12:34
Pendulumalso, it could be used for one of the side layouts12:35
Pendulumas in, to denote one of them12:35
Pendulumbecause they'll be noticeable that way!12:35
Pendulummaybe use #dd4814 for one of them and one of the stand-out aubrigines for the other?12:36
AlanBellit seems to ignore stroke colours for the outlines of the keys :(12:37
AlanBelltrying to figure out how it loads the SVG12:38
JanCwhat does it use to render SVG?12:38
JanChm, Cairo ?12:38
AlanBellit does it key by key12:41
AlanBellload_pane_svg function in KeyboardSVG.py12:41
PendulumJanC: yeah, it looks like it uses Cairo12:42
AlanBellit is using cairo12:43
JanCjudging from the module you point to, it parses the XML itself and changes it because it has to adapt to keyboard layouts & such12:47
AlanBellKeyGTK.py does the drawing of keys12:47
AlanBellit reads positions and sizes from the XML and colours and the #ID of the key image12:48
AlanBellyay, I have the stroke colour changed12:49
AlanBelland it is now Ubuntu Orange12:54
AlanBellwhat is really needed is an awesome on screen keyboard that is better than whatever the iPad had which is built in to the unity layer12:57
AlanBellthis is a short term improvement with the goal of getting the design team excited about on screen keyboards12:58
AlanBellDefault.onboard in the layouts directory is where to tweak the background colours of the three panes14:59
AlanBellhttps://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/onboard15:26
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* AlanBell has rounded rectangles \o/15:47
AlanBellfull. of. awesome.15:48
AlanBellhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/awesomeonboard.png15:52
AlanBellPendulum: ^^15:52
erkan^wow!15:59
erkan^nice15:59
erkan^I want pasta this picture on my keyboard, because that is easy contrast, but how, AlanBell ?16:10
AlanBellerkan^:  https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/onboard16:12
AlanBellbzr branch that16:12
AlanBelland run ./onboard in the directory it creates16:12
erkan^ok16:13
erkan^i try16:13
erkan^    bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard ?16:13
AlanBellyeah16:13
AlanBellwhich will create an onboard folder with an executable in it which should just run16:14
erkan^and now, AlanBell ? after bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard ?16:17
erkan^i have installed --> bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard ?16:17
erkan^@acer-laptop:~$     bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard16:17
erkan^You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to16:17
erkan^write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".16:17
erkan^Branched 245 revision(s).                                                    16:17
meetingologyerkan^: Error: "acer-laptop:~$" is not a valid command.16:17
AlanBellok, good so far16:22
AlanBellcd onboard16:22
AlanBell./onboard16:22
AlanBellI have to go get on a train in a sec16:23
erkan^very nice!!! (-: AlanBell 16:23
erkan^laterss16:23
PendulumAlanBell: I like it!16:40
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Pendulumin about 50 minutes is EMEA board meeting where UndiFineD is going for membership, it would be great if we could get some people from here to cheer him on!20:10
charlie-tca__Certainly would! I gave him an endorsement20:10
PendulumI did too :)20:11
charlie-tca__I will be there today20:11
charlie-tca__Pendulum: congratulations on your board seat!20:12
Pendulumcharlie-tca__: thanks :)20:12
UndiFineDPendulum, with all the new hardware, when will you get your mecca suit ?20:12
PendulumUndiFineD: haha. no plans for that yet. although there may be some titanium rods in my future20:12
UndiFineDI saw you had walked to the store see20:13
PendulumUndiFineD: used my powerchair20:13
Pendulumit's just easier to say 'walked' :)20:14
UndiFineDah20:14
UndiFineDhttp://fc04.deviantart.net/fs41/f/2009/010/2/0/Mecca_Suit_Girl_by_wayner8088.jpg20:14
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AlanBellbug 75189121:22
charlie-tca__Doesn't seem that important unless it becomes usable, does it?21:24
AlanBellit is21:24
charlie-tca__Will the dev update it with ubuntu-font if it is not an ubuntu specific project?21:25
AlanBellI have done it charlie-tca__ 21:25
AlanBellhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/awesomeonboard.png21:25
AlanBellthat could be an Ubuntu patch21:25
AlanBellhowever the thing was created as an Ubuntu project in the first place21:26
AlanBellno idea if any other distro uses it21:26
charlie-tca__It was?21:26
AlanBellupstream is here: https://launchpad.net/onboard21:26
charlie-tca__Okay, I will confirm the bug then. I like onboard, and it would look good with an update. Just not orange, please!21:26
AlanBellcharlie-tca__: I want the design team to take ownership of it21:27
AlanBelland make it work with Unity21:27
charlie-tca__ouch21:27
charlie-tca__I haven't really seen much out of them that m21:27
charlie-tca__akes me think they will do it right for accessibility21:28
Pendulumcharlie-tca__: onBoard was a GSOC thing that AFAIK is only used on Ubuntu21:28
Pendulumfrom what I can tell it was created specifically for Ubuntu21:28
charlie-tca__honestly, des21:28
charlie-tca__design team does not seem to care for accessible at all21:28
PendulumI occasionally get questions from the gnome a11y folks about it21:28
AlanBellI don't care *why* they do it right, but if I can make the design team want a great on screen keyboard for tablets or whatever then that is great21:29
Pendulumthey actually sent an e-mail to phillw and me asking about a11y on the website redesign21:29
Pendulum(today)21:29
Pendulumbut I'm not sure if phillw is actually doing any Ubuntu stuff anymore21:29
AlanBellphillw has not been seen on IRC or mailing lists for over a week21:30
charlie-tca__Pendulum: if only they listened when we give input21:30
Pendulumyeah21:30
Pendulumcharlie-tca__: well, they're hoping to set up a skype call, so I'm hoping21:30
PendulumAlanBell: can I copy you on my reply to them?21:30
AlanBellof course Pendulum 21:30
charlie-tca__guess I better leave this alone now. 21:30
PendulumAlanBell: you should have mail21:33
Pendulumcharlie-tca__: well, since they're trying now rather than after launching the site or even showing mock-ups, I am going to be hopeful21:33
charlie-tca__good luck with them21:34
PendulumUndiFineD is up in the meeting :)21:35
Pendulumwhoo hoo! well done UndiFineD!21:41
UndiFineD:)21:42
charlie-tca__Well, that was easy!21:42
AlanBellyay21:42
charlie-tca__You did it!21:42
charlie-tca__AlanBell: I have to ask, wishlist or low importance? I can get either one21:43
charlie-tca__Hard to push it too high, though21:43
AlanBelllow21:46
AlanBellA cosmetic/usability issue that does not limit the functionality of an application 21:47
charlie-tca__Agreed. Thanks21:47
hajour_for info.i have contact whit jmarsden he do a lot for lubuntu.i have also give trough on him what i heard what was missing for info.he had take action whit that.also jmarsden checks also on speechcontrol wiki or it is good and stay good useble for light weight programs.i also know phillw have made or still is busy whitlast part to make whole sii wiki so accessible as possible and put much time in it22:01
* hajour_ always hears a lot of info from people :)22:02
hajour_charlie-tca__,  Pendulum  AlanBell ^22:02
Pendulumok22:03
charlie-tca__ack22:03
hajour_so he is very busy whit setting up the whole site from sii .that's what i have heard whit help from a few others22:05
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hajourPendulum,  wanted to inform you about something. i not know what ischanged by or flash programs or firefox or chromium but chromium is most worst .frame in frames causes grey squares and screen freeze and much slow down connecting.this is bad .because in netherland  and most in europe banking and task/btw go s with a system what use frame in frame.in netherland all banking is going with internet.so if people cant banking wh22:37
hajourit out problems they have no choice to go over on a other.and its not only by lubuntu also my daughters have it and they use ubuntu22:37
Pendulumhajour: can you work with UndiFineD to file bugs about that?22:37
hajouryes we can. think screenshots would most good thought22:38
hajoursorry for so long story btw22:39
hajourPendulum, ^22:39
hajourbut because i not know the technical names for it and not speak very good english i needed to  describe it to let you know22:41
PendulumI know. You can attach screenshots to the bug report22:41
AlanBellhttp://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/5537375971613900922:42
hajourok UndiFineD  go help me but he better report it i just discovered a mail from a bug i never answered to. i struggle to much with the reading.22:43
PendulumAlanBell: eep!22:43
AlanBellindeed, I thought they were going to leave it to the last minute again22:43
PendulumI was hoping by the end of the week22:43
Pendulumbut now I'm just nervous22:43
hajourso till i have a program what works bugs report better be done by others22:44
hajouri tto Pendulum 22:44
hajour-t22:45
hajourbut i hope you have understanding for it.about mail the bugs it will be done by UndiFineD  .i have discovered more time bugs and UndiFineD  have mailed the bugs reports and responded22:46
Pendulum*nods*22:46
hajourbecause i not want it go wrong because my worse reading22:47
Pendulumhajour & UndiFineD if you file bugs that are accessibility related and are against Ubuntu, do feel free to add me to the bug22:47
UndiFineDok22:47
Pendulumas a subscriber, I mean22:47
hajourwell this one is important to all users seams to me anyway22:48
hajourthat very long story i was 20 minutes busy whit typing that22:48
hajourwith22:48
hajourand i hope i was enough clear btw i have done my very best on it22:49
hajourPendulum, ^22:50
Pendulumyes22:50
hajourPendulum, that rings you using.i wonder which way i have to take (doctors)to get that to22:51
hajouri now typing always with only 1 finger you see22:51
hajoursometimes 2 if i need shift22:52
hajourbut its difficult22:52
Pendulumhajour: www.silverringsplints.com is where I got mine from, but you need to be evaluated by a type of physiotherapist for them22:52
hajouro god just walked a big spider close to me22:53
* hajour is afraid of all spiders what is bigger then half size of a mouse22:54
hajourbrrr22:54
hajourUndiFineD,  have catch it and thrown away the house22:55
hajourout of the house i mean22:55
hajour:S there are more 22:56
UndiFineDI just threw out its partner as well, who lost 2 legs22:59
UndiFineDlets watch a movie, arachnafobia23:00
hajourgrrr23:00
hajourjust have read back.ok thanks for info Pendulum 23:19
hajouri already had get the link from you Pendulum but not new how to get it23:20
hajourhave ad the link in favourites23:20
Pendulumhajour: you might try e-mailing the company and seeing if they know of anyone in The Netherlands who they've worked with before23:21
hajoura ok yes i can do that whit help from UndiFineD thanks for the info Pendulum 23:22

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