[02:14] <Pendulum> TheMuso: do you have a preference between a meeting at 2100UTC and 2200UTC (Wednesday)
[02:15] <TheMuso> Pendulum: 2200 would be much preferable, ut I can make 2100 if absolutely necessary.
[02:16] <TheMuso> Its worth noting that I am now UTC +10.
[02:16] <Pendulum> okay, so 2200 is 8AM for you?
[02:16] <TheMuso> Yes.
[02:16] <Pendulum> (I've never been quite sure what timezone you were in so that is very helpful, thanks!)
[02:16] <TheMuso> I am usually close to the point of being at the computer by then.
[02:17] <TheMuso> So actually getting to the computer and attending the meeting is no proble, :)
[02:17] <Pendulum> :)
[11:05] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/brandedonboard.png
[11:05] <AlanBell> Pendulum: ^^ like that?
[11:05] <Pendulum> ?
[11:06] <Pendulum> AlanBell: sorry, I'm missing context here
[11:08] <AlanBell> onboard with the ubuntu font and orange branding
[11:09] <Pendulum> the orange hurts
[11:09] <Pendulum> otherwise it's fine
[11:10] <Pendulum> although I suspect that people who really need high contrast (since *gasp* some people have mobility and vision problems) might not like the black on grey either
[11:10] <AlanBell> hmm, ok, I toned it down on the keys
[11:10] <Pendulum> btw, the gasp was not aimed so much at you
[11:10] <Pendulum> just the general brain parts of people that makes them assume that if you have one impairment you won't have others
[11:10] <AlanBell> yeah
[11:11] <AlanBell> I just had a thought that bringing this into the branding might unlock more Canonical people
[11:11] <Pendulum> *nods*
[11:11] <AlanBell> make it an ivanka issue
[11:11] <Pendulum> haha
[11:12] <Pendulum> I think part of the problem is that by and large the branding isn't great for disabled people
[11:12] <Pendulum> the aubrigine isn't a horrid colour choice, but I know I'm not the only person with orange issues
[11:13] <AlanBell> I would like to see more aubergine anyway
[11:14] <Pendulum> I think that's true for most people other than czajkowski ;-)
[11:14]  * AlanBell is in the same room as czajkowski
[11:15] <Pendulum> hi czajkowski! o/
[11:16] <AlanBell> sat in a dull presentation
[11:17] <Pendulum> :(
[11:20] <AlanBell> so the colours are tweakable quite easily
[11:31] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/onboard.png
[11:33] <AlanBell> more aubergine, but still orange on keys with nothing important on them (shift and space)
[11:33] <Pendulum> can you make the aubrigine paler?
[11:34] <Pendulum> I know that makes it not quite conform to norms for keyboard shading, but right now it doesn't have great contrast with the black
[11:34] <AlanBell> yes
[11:34] <AlanBell> which one, the one on the numbers?
[11:34] <AlanBell> or tab, return etc?
[11:37] <Pendulum> bah, I meant orange
[11:37] <Pendulum> the aubrigine is fine for me
[11:37] <AlanBell> yes, I can do
[11:37] <Pendulum> (I guess this says how good my brain function is this morning :-/ )
[12:04] <AlanBell> this isn't programming or any special magic
[12:05] <Pendulum> *nods*
[12:06] <AlanBell> just editing /usr/share/onboard/layouts/Default-Alpha.svg with Inkscape
[12:06] <AlanBell> just select keys and change the keycap colours
[12:06] <AlanBell> I wanted to do fancier stuff, but that doesn't seem to work
[12:07] <AlanBell> blending and shading and rounded corners etc
[12:07] <AlanBell> but that doesn't get rendered in onboard
[12:09] <AlanBell> I want to get the letters centered on the keycaps but I can't figure out how to do that yet
[12:10] <Pendulum> *nods*
[12:13] <AlanBell> what else needs to be done to onboard to make it look awesome?
[12:15] <AlanBell> the things at the side to switch layouts are pretty confusing
[12:15] <Pendulum> for me, the rounded corners is the biggest thing I can think of visually that would help
[12:16] <AlanBell> and when an overlay layout pops up it looks a bit of a mess
[12:16] <Pendulum> and, yes
[12:16] <Pendulum> I didn't even realise those were supposed to do that!
[12:17] <Pendulum> learn something new every day!
[12:20] <Pendulum> I'd really like some labeling on those side layouts
[12:23] <AlanBell> yeah, that should be possible
[12:24] <Pendulum> I honestly assumed they were random blobs of colour
[12:24] <Pendulum> because they don't contrast enough either
[12:25] <JanC> assuming that most people will already change their theme to something that fits their vision, ideally Onboard would use system colours somehow...?
[12:26] <Pendulum> JanC: I don't change my theme that much from default because most things the default is fine for me. It's specific colours (like the orange) that I have issues with most of the time
[12:27] <Pendulum> maybe a GUI way of changing colours
[12:27] <AlanBell> JanC: I kind of agree, however I think that requires more major surgery than I want to do right now
[12:27] <JanC> well, there is support for that in GNOME, if the theme supports it...
[12:27] <Pendulum> although I think it's probably solvable for most people without needing that
[12:27] <AlanBell> right now it is a nasty dated brown
[12:28] <Pendulum> yeah
[12:28] <JanC> AlanBell: yes, I understand that it's not simple the way Onboard works now
[12:28] <Pendulum> AFAIK, it's a semi-abandoned project that was a GSOC
[12:28] <Pendulum> (which is also why it's Ubuntu-only)
[12:28] <AlanBell> I want to update it and get it adopted properly by the design team
[12:28] <JanC> is tehre a better alternative?
[12:28] <AlanBell> really a new keyboard would be good
[12:29] <AlanBell> there is no better alternative that is *already* on the CD
[12:29] <AlanBell> not sure if there is a better alternative at all
[12:29] <Pendulum> that's something that was discussed at the last UDS
[12:29] <Pendulum> no one was sure about that
[12:29] <AlanBell> yup
[12:30] <Pendulum> I should find the person who ran that session and get him in here
[12:30] <Pendulum> (I can't remember who ran it, will look at the blueprint)
[12:30] <JanC> I guess replacing it might still be an option *if* it's proven to be better
[12:30] <AlanBell> well right now, we might be able to get new colours and font through and in to Natty
[12:31] <AlanBell> replacing it can go on the UDS agenda again
[12:31] <Pendulum> I'm planning on picking TheMuso's brain about whether the fixes to a11y in Unity that will come next cycle will get onBoard working with everything in Unity or if there's going to need to be massive stuff done to onBoard
[12:31] <AlanBell> right now the keyboard is out of scope for the design team
[12:31] <Pendulum> yeah
[12:32] <AlanBell> I want to show them that it is a brandable element
[12:32] <Pendulum> I'm all for that idea :)
[12:32] <Pendulum> john lea is supposed to be our design team contact (yes, we have one assigned to a11y)
[12:32] <Pendulum> (except for on the website stuff, obviously)
[12:33] <AlanBell> that is why I want to get the colours OK visually and I want to get some #dd4814 in there to make the design team think it belongs to them
[12:34] <Pendulum> AlanBell: can you use it for the outlines of the keys?
[12:35] <Pendulum> also, it could be used for one of the side layouts
[12:35] <Pendulum> as in, to denote one of them
[12:35] <Pendulum> because they'll be noticeable that way!
[12:36] <Pendulum> maybe use #dd4814 for one of them and one of the stand-out aubrigines for the other?
[12:37] <AlanBell> it seems to ignore stroke colours for the outlines of the keys :(
[12:38] <AlanBell> trying to figure out how it loads the SVG
[12:38] <JanC> what does it use to render SVG?
[12:38] <JanC> hm, Cairo ?
[12:41] <AlanBell> it does it key by key
[12:41] <AlanBell> load_pane_svg function in KeyboardSVG.py
[12:42] <Pendulum> JanC: yeah, it looks like it uses Cairo
[12:43] <AlanBell> it is using cairo
[12:47] <JanC> judging from the module you point to, it parses the XML itself and changes it because it has to adapt to keyboard layouts & such
[12:47] <AlanBell> KeyGTK.py does the drawing of keys
[12:48] <AlanBell> it reads positions and sizes from the XML and colours and the #ID of the key image
[12:49] <AlanBell> yay, I have the stroke colour changed
[12:54] <AlanBell> and it is now Ubuntu Orange
[12:57] <AlanBell> what is really needed is an awesome on screen keyboard that is better than whatever the iPad had which is built in to the unity layer
[12:58] <AlanBell> this is a short term improvement with the goal of getting the design team excited about on screen keyboards
[14:59] <AlanBell> Default.onboard in the layouts directory is where to tweak the background colours of the three panes
[15:26] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/onboard
[15:47]  * AlanBell has rounded rectangles \o/
[15:48] <AlanBell> full. of. awesome.
[15:52] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/awesomeonboard.png
[15:52] <AlanBell> Pendulum: ^^
[15:59] <erkan^> wow!
[15:59] <erkan^> nice
[16:10] <erkan^> I want pasta this picture on my keyboard, because that is easy contrast, but how, AlanBell ?
[16:12] <AlanBell> erkan^:  https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/onboard
[16:12] <AlanBell> bzr branch that
[16:12] <AlanBell> and run ./onboard in the directory it creates
[16:13] <erkan^> ok
[16:13] <erkan^> i try
[16:13] <erkan^>     bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard ?
[16:13] <AlanBell> yeah
[16:14] <AlanBell> which will create an onboard folder with an executable in it which should just run
[16:17] <erkan^> and now, AlanBell ? after bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard ?
[16:17] <erkan^> i have installed --> bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard ?
[16:17] <erkan^> @acer-laptop:~$     bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard
[16:17] <erkan^> You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
[16:17] <erkan^> write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".
[16:17] <erkan^> Branched 245 revision(s).                                                    
[16:17] <meetingology> erkan^: Error: "acer-laptop:~$" is not a valid command.
[16:22] <AlanBell> ok, good so far
[16:22] <AlanBell> cd onboard
[16:22] <AlanBell> ./onboard
[16:23] <AlanBell> I have to go get on a train in a sec
[16:23] <erkan^> very nice!!! (-: AlanBell 
[16:23] <erkan^> laterss
[16:40] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I like it!
[20:10] <Pendulum> in about 50 minutes is EMEA board meeting where UndiFineD is going for membership, it would be great if we could get some people from here to cheer him on!
[20:10] <charlie-tca__> Certainly would! I gave him an endorsement
[20:11] <Pendulum> I did too :)
[20:11] <charlie-tca__> I will be there today
[20:12] <charlie-tca__> Pendulum: congratulations on your board seat!
[20:12] <Pendulum> charlie-tca__: thanks :)
[20:12] <UndiFineD> Pendulum, with all the new hardware, when will you get your mecca suit ?
[20:12] <Pendulum> UndiFineD: haha. no plans for that yet. although there may be some titanium rods in my future
[20:13] <UndiFineD> I saw you had walked to the store see
[20:13] <Pendulum> UndiFineD: used my powerchair
[20:14] <Pendulum> it's just easier to say 'walked' :)
[20:14] <UndiFineD> ah
[20:14] <UndiFineD> http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs41/f/2009/010/2/0/Mecca_Suit_Girl_by_wayner8088.jpg
[21:22] <AlanBell> bug 751891
[21:24] <charlie-tca__> Doesn't seem that important unless it becomes usable, does it?
[21:24] <AlanBell> it is
[21:25] <charlie-tca__> Will the dev update it with ubuntu-font if it is not an ubuntu specific project?
[21:25] <AlanBell> I have done it charlie-tca__ 
[21:25] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/awesomeonboard.png
[21:25] <AlanBell> that could be an Ubuntu patch
[21:26] <AlanBell> however the thing was created as an Ubuntu project in the first place
[21:26] <AlanBell> no idea if any other distro uses it
[21:26] <charlie-tca__> It was?
[21:26] <AlanBell> upstream is here: https://launchpad.net/onboard
[21:26] <charlie-tca__> Okay, I will confirm the bug then. I like onboard, and it would look good with an update. Just not orange, please!
[21:27] <AlanBell> charlie-tca__: I want the design team to take ownership of it
[21:27] <AlanBell> and make it work with Unity
[21:27] <charlie-tca__> ouch
[21:27] <charlie-tca__> I haven't really seen much out of them that m
[21:28] <charlie-tca__> akes me think they will do it right for accessibility
[21:28] <Pendulum> charlie-tca__: onBoard was a GSOC thing that AFAIK is only used on Ubuntu
[21:28] <Pendulum> from what I can tell it was created specifically for Ubuntu
[21:28] <charlie-tca__> honestly, des
[21:28] <charlie-tca__> design team does not seem to care for accessible at all
[21:28] <Pendulum> I occasionally get questions from the gnome a11y folks about it
[21:29] <AlanBell> I don't care *why* they do it right, but if I can make the design team want a great on screen keyboard for tablets or whatever then that is great
[21:29] <Pendulum> they actually sent an e-mail to phillw and me asking about a11y on the website redesign
[21:29] <Pendulum> (today)
[21:29] <Pendulum> but I'm not sure if phillw is actually doing any Ubuntu stuff anymore
[21:30] <AlanBell> phillw has not been seen on IRC or mailing lists for over a week
[21:30] <charlie-tca__> Pendulum: if only they listened when we give input
[21:30] <Pendulum> yeah
[21:30] <Pendulum> charlie-tca__: well, they're hoping to set up a skype call, so I'm hoping
[21:30] <Pendulum> AlanBell: can I copy you on my reply to them?
[21:30] <AlanBell> of course Pendulum 
[21:30] <charlie-tca__> guess I better leave this alone now. 
[21:33] <Pendulum> AlanBell: you should have mail
[21:33] <Pendulum> charlie-tca__: well, since they're trying now rather than after launching the site or even showing mock-ups, I am going to be hopeful
[21:34] <charlie-tca__> good luck with them
[21:35] <Pendulum> UndiFineD is up in the meeting :)
[21:41] <Pendulum> whoo hoo! well done UndiFineD!
[21:42] <UndiFineD> :)
[21:42] <charlie-tca__> Well, that was easy!
[21:42] <AlanBell> yay
[21:42] <charlie-tca__> You did it!
[21:43] <charlie-tca__> AlanBell: I have to ask, wishlist or low importance? I can get either one
[21:43] <charlie-tca__> Hard to push it too high, though
[21:46] <AlanBell> low
[21:47] <AlanBell> A cosmetic/usability issue that does not limit the functionality of an application 
[21:47] <charlie-tca__> Agreed. Thanks
[22:01] <hajour_> for info.i have contact whit jmarsden he do a lot for lubuntu.i have also give trough on him what i heard what was missing for info.he had take action whit that.also jmarsden checks also on speechcontrol wiki or it is good and stay good useble for light weight programs.i also know phillw have made or still is busy whitlast part to make whole sii wiki so accessible as possible and put much time in it
[22:02]  * hajour_ always hears a lot  of info from people :)
[22:02] <hajour_> charlie-tca__,  Pendulum  AlanBell ^
[22:03] <Pendulum> ok
[22:03] <charlie-tca__> ack
[22:05] <hajour_> so he is very busy whit setting up the whole site from sii .that's what i have heard whit help from a few others
[22:37] <hajour> Pendulum,  wanted to inform you about something. i not know what ischanged by or flash programs or firefox or chromium but chromium is most worst .frame in frames causes grey squares and screen freeze and much slow down connecting.this is bad .because in netherland  and most in europe banking and task/btw go s with a system what use frame in frame.in netherland all banking is going with internet.so if people cant banking wh
[22:37] <hajour> it out problems they have no choice to go over on a other.and its not only by lubuntu also my daughters have it and they use ubuntu
[22:37] <Pendulum> hajour: can you work with UndiFineD to file bugs about that?
[22:38] <hajour> yes we can. think screenshots would most good thought
[22:39] <hajour> sorry for so long story btw
[22:39] <hajour> Pendulum, ^
[22:41] <hajour> but because i not know the technical names for it and not speak very good english i needed to  describe it to let you know
[22:41] <Pendulum> I know. You can attach screenshots to the bug report
[22:42] <AlanBell> http://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/55373759716139009
[22:43] <hajour> ok UndiFineD  go help me but he better report it i just discovered a mail from a bug i never answered to. i struggle to much with the reading.
[22:43] <Pendulum> AlanBell: eep!
[22:43] <AlanBell> indeed, I thought they were going to leave it to the last minute again
[22:43] <Pendulum> I was hoping by the end of the week
[22:43] <Pendulum> but now I'm just nervous
[22:44] <hajour> so till i have a program what works bugs report better be done by others
[22:44] <hajour> i tto Pendulum 
[22:45] <hajour> -t
[22:46] <hajour> but i hope you have understanding for it.about mail the bugs it will be done by UndiFineD  .i have discovered more time bugs and UndiFineD  have mailed the bugs reports and responded
[22:46] <Pendulum> *nods*
[22:47] <hajour> because i not want it go wrong because my worse reading
[22:47] <Pendulum> hajour & UndiFineD if you file bugs that are accessibility related and are against Ubuntu, do feel free to add me to the bug
[22:47] <UndiFineD> ok
[22:47] <Pendulum> as a subscriber, I mean
[22:48] <hajour> well this one is important to all users seams to me anyway
[22:48] <hajour> that very long story i was 20 minutes busy whit typing that
[22:48] <hajour> with
[22:49] <hajour> and i hope i was enough clear btw i have done my very best on it
[22:50] <hajour> Pendulum, ^
[22:50] <Pendulum> yes
[22:51] <hajour> Pendulum, that rings you using.i wonder which way i have to take (doctors)to get that to
[22:51] <hajour> i now typing always with only 1 finger you see
[22:52] <hajour> sometimes 2 if i need shift
[22:52] <hajour> but its difficult
[22:52] <Pendulum> hajour: www.silverringsplints.com is where I got mine from, but you need to be evaluated by a type of physiotherapist for them
[22:53] <hajour> o god just walked a big spider close to me
[22:54]  * hajour is afraid of all spiders what is bigger then half size of a mouse
[22:54] <hajour> brrr
[22:55] <hajour> UndiFineD,  have catch it and thrown away the house
[22:55] <hajour> out of the house i mean
[22:56] <hajour> :S there are more 
[22:59] <UndiFineD> I just threw out its partner as well, who lost 2 legs
[23:00] <UndiFineD> lets watch a movie, arachnafobia
[23:00] <hajour> grrr
[23:19] <hajour> just have read back.ok thanks for info Pendulum 
[23:20] <hajour> i already had get the link from you Pendulum but not new how to get it
[23:20] <hajour> have ad the link in favourites
[23:21] <Pendulum> hajour: you might try e-mailing the company and seeing if they know of anyone in The Netherlands who they've worked with before
[23:22] <hajour> a ok yes i can do that whit help from UndiFineD thanks for the info Pendulum