[06:57] <YoBoY> bonjour
[08:23] <dholbach> good morning
[09:34] <fortinux> hi
[09:34] <fortinux> is there anyone from the catalan loco team
[09:34] <fortinux> ?
[09:35] <dholbach> fortinux, dpm is, but there might be more :)
[09:37] <fortinux> I'll wait 4 a moment to see if everyone's appear, thanks
[09:39] <dpm> fortinux, what, is it not enough to have one Catalan around? :P
[09:40] <fortinux> :-) upss, sorry I didn't mean that
[09:43] <fortinux> With a friend we want to make an install party in Barcelona since I've seen U don't have anyone at the moment
[09:43] <fortinux> may I talk with U to organize it?
[09:44] <fortinux> shall we speak in catalan here? :-)
[09:47] <dholbach> fortinux, dpm is trying to make Catalan the official Ubuntu language anyway
[09:47] <dpm> yeah, it's on my roadmap for 11.10 :-)
[09:48] <fortinux> :-) I think it's a good idea
[09:48] <dpm> fortinux, sure, let's have a chat. We can go to #ubuntu-cat if you like
[09:49] <fortinux> ok, have a nice dy dholbach! thanks
[09:50] <dholbach> fortinux, you too
[09:50] <dpm> fortinux, there's more people there ^ so if you want to discuss, feel free to come along and ping me or alexm
[09:50] <fortinux> ok, thanks dpm, see U there 
[09:51] <dpm> cool :)
[12:42] <paky1111> ciao
[12:43] <paky1111> help
[12:44] <paky1111> ho installato ubuntu e mi funziona ma all'accensione del pc non mi da la possibilita' di scegliere tra windows vista ed ubuntu cosa devo fare?grazie
[12:44] <Pendulum> !it
[12:44] <ubot4> Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (per entrare, scrivi « /join #ubuntu-it » senza virgolette)
[12:45] <paky1111> grazie e scusate
[19:08] <jono> btw folks, http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/05/shipit-discontinued-long-live-loco-teams/
[19:17] <JanC> jono: so locoteams that are not approved yet can't get CDs?
[19:17] <jono> JanC, yep
[19:17] <jono> but that has been the policy for a while in terms of a pack of CDs
[19:18] <JanC> jono: the bar to become/stay approved is significuantly higher than "being able to distribute CDs"
[19:18] <jono> JanC, agreed - and people are welcome to distribute their own CDs
[19:18] <jono> but this is a pure resourcing issue - there was a lot of waste with ShipIt
[19:19] <JanC> yeah, I know that
[19:19] <jono> it is more likely Approved teams won't waste those resources
[19:19] <jono> of course, not all new teams will waste them either, it is a judgement call
[19:22] <JanC> jono: what about CDs for events & such in countries/states that have no approved locoteam (yet)?
[19:23] <Ddorda> jono: too bad, i'm not sure if we'll pass our next approval request, which means no CDs?
[19:24] <Ddorda> jono: moreover, i think personal CDs requests should be available for several countries that has no regular internet cponnection
[19:24] <Ddorda> connection*
[19:24] <mhall119> JanC: I think the conference packs are still available to anybody promoting Ubuntu at a conference
[19:24] <Daniel0108> jono: noo, two days ago I re-founded the LoCo Austria :(
[19:25] <JanC> Daniel0108: you can always burn your own CDs of course  ;)
[19:25] <Daniel0108> JanC: yes I know ;) But they told me: "If you need CDs, just ask canonical" and now I can't ask ;)
[19:25] <leogg> Ddorda, nothing is stopping you from burning your own CDs :)
[19:27] <jono> JanC, there may be exceptions here and there, but they will need to become approved
[19:27] <Ddorda> leogg: of course, but there's a huge difference between spreading official CDs and burning CDs...
[19:27] <jono> Ddorda, in a perfect world, we would give everyone free CDs
[19:27] <Daniel0108> jono: how can my LoCo team become approved?
[19:27] <jono> but remember, Canonical is a startup :-)
[19:27] <jono> we have limited coffers
[19:28] <jono> Daniel0108, you go to the LoCo Council for approval
[19:28] <JanC> Daniel0108: that will take you a year at least
[19:28] <Daniel0108> jono: okay, thanks ;)
[19:28] <Ddorda> jono: what about poor countries?
[19:28] <leogg> Ddorda, look at it this way: burning your own CDs (and not wasting valuable resources) is a *great* way to support Ubuntu!
[19:28] <Daniel0108> first of all I have to get more members ^^
[19:28] <jono> Ddorda, unfortunately, we won't be able to provide them with CDs as we used to
[19:28] <jono> Daniel0108, :-)
[19:29] <Ddorda> it's not about fortune ;)
[19:29] <jono> Ddorda, eh?
[19:29] <JanC> what you can do as a locoteam is get CDs pressed, maybe with sponsorship from a local company or association...
[19:29] <Ddorda> unfortunately... nvrm, bad joke :P
[19:29] <jono> :-)
[19:29] <JanC> and/or sell them for a small amount
[19:29] <jono> I agree folks, it sucks we can't invest as much in CDs, but at least is is not being cut completely :-)
[19:30] <leogg> Ddorda, locally made CDs can also be customised... which is pretty cool! :)
[19:30] <Ddorda> leogg: I know, but for such thing you need someone to work on it, right?
[19:30] <mhall119> jono: do you know if official CD cover art and sleeve art is going to be made available under a CC license?
[19:30] <JanC> makign a localised CD isn't very difficult
[19:30] <leogg> Ddorda, spreadubuntu FTW! :D
[19:31] <leogg> there's a lot of CD cover art over at spreadubuntu
[19:31] <jono> mhall119, I am not sure
[19:31] <leogg> or ask the art-team for help 
[19:31] <jono> mhall119, I thought it already was
[19:31] <mhall119> it might be, I've never had the need to look
[19:31] <JanC> artwork is available AFAIK, but I don't know under what license
[19:32] <leogg> mhall119, jono, I think they already are available as CC
[19:32] <JanC> "CC license" is also very non-specific  ;)
[19:32] <leogg> true
[19:32] <mhall119> but if it is, then there's nothing stopping a LoCo from pooling their money and ordering a professional run of CDs
[19:35] <Daniel0108> hi Georgs
[19:35] <Georgs> hi Daniel0108
[19:35] <JanC> the French team makes their own CD sleeves, so you don't need the official artwork per se
[19:35] <jono> mhall119, indeed :-)
[19:35] <jono> brb lunch
[19:35] <Daniel0108> okay
[19:37] <BigWhale> Funny, we're still so retro that we burn our CD's when we give them away. :>
[19:37] <leogg> http://design.canonical.com/brand/Examples/release_cds/
[19:37] <mhall119> JanC: don't *need* it, but it'd probably be easier if you had it
[19:37] <JanC> http://enventelibre.org/sites/enventelibre.org/files/imagecache/product_full/evl-pochette1010.png --> French CDs
[19:38] <JanC> mhall119: you probably need to make something new from it anyway, e.g. because the sleeves you use are different and because you want to add text in another language, a link to your locoteam, maybe sponsors...
[19:39] <mhall119> JanC: but if you don't have an artistically inclined loco member, if you have a good source imagine to give to the printing company, then can probably accomodate you
[19:40] <JanC> maybe
[19:40] <leogg> BigWhale, retro is cool! :)
[19:40] <JanC> people from the art team or other locoteams might be willing to help too
[19:42] <BigWhale> leogg, yeah, we have a burning station with four cd writers and it takes very little to get 100 CD's out.
[19:43] <BigWhale> Party like it's 1999! :>
[19:43] <leogg> BigWhale, :O that's awesome! /me want one of those burning stations! :D
[19:44] <BigWhale> Hardy har! It's a PC, running Ubuntu and a bunch of shell scripts.
[19:45] <leogg> cool! 
[19:46] <YoBoY>  JanC the french CD sleeve is based on the official
[19:49] <YoBoY> and yes locoteams can make their own localised CDs, but they need money to do that
[19:50] <YoBoY> and they need to sell these CDs depending on the fabrication cost.
[19:51] <JanC> YoBoY: yeah, one of the problems might be with "poor" locoteams
[19:51] <YoBoY> I totaly agree with you
[19:52] <JanC> I think money is no problem for a team that has been around and working on funding for some time, like ubuntu-fr & ubuntu-be
[19:52] <JanC> but we are the approved teams...   ;)
[19:53] <YoBoY> yes :)
[19:53] <leogg> YoBoY, JanC, CDs are not expensive?
[19:54] <JanC> and I can imagine a new & young team with mostly students not having the money to pre-finance CDs...
[19:54] <YoBoY> we produced for the 10.10 version 9000 CD, 0,28€/CD with the sleeve of course
[19:54] <leogg> over here, you can buy 10 CDs for a $1 dollar
[19:55] <YoBoY> we plan to produce for the 11.04 11000 CD, 0,23€/CD for this version :)
[19:55] <JanC> leogg: they have "author's rights contribution taxes" on CD-Rs over here...
[19:55] <leogg> you really only need a blank disc and a marker... the software is the important stuff
[19:55] <JanC> and those taxes are > 100%
[19:55] <leogg> JanC, yep... that sucks!
[19:55] <BigWhale> JanC, we have that too! 
[19:56] <leogg> JanC, but again... you don't need anything fancy... just a blank CD?
[19:56] <YoBoY> We think a "official" CD is more professional than a burned one.
[19:57] <YoBoY> when you go to talk about Ubuntu to someone and ask him if he want to try or to install it, it's reassuring to show an official CD with a sleeve.
[19:58] <leogg> YoBoY, it really depends on the message you want to deliver... 
[19:58] <leogg> YoBoY, it's ok for a corporate audience
[19:58] <BigWhale> And it also depends on the audience
[19:58] <BigWhale> indeed
[19:58] <leogg> I prefer home-made CDs that just screams "community" :D
[19:59] <BigWhale> Well, in not so distant time I'll be looking for sponsors that will donate a bunch od USB thumb drives.
[20:01] <YoBoY> our audience is more normal people, users. Not all know how to burn a CD or create a live USB. Community is great, but it's not enought to make Ubuntu the great product that can kill other OS
[20:01] <JanC> leogg: the tax on a blank CDs is 0.12 € + taxes over here, which means a CD-R is probably about 3 to 4 times more expensive for us than for you  :) 
[20:01] <Pendulum> leogg: I've found that non-corporate new users respond better to official looking CDs either
[20:02] <Pendulum> *as well
[20:02] <Pendulum> it makes things look a little more professional and like the people producing it know what they're doing
[20:03] <JanC> Pendulum: in my experience it's often the "collectors" who complain most if we only have burned CDs...   :P
[20:03]  * YoBoY hugs Pendulum :)
[20:03] <JanC> but "better looking" CDs certainly helps for part of the target audience
[20:04] <leogg> JanC, indeed... but I think you can afford it? what's the minimum wage? ours is ~$200 dollars
[20:04] <YoBoY> JanC: we don't give the CDs, collectors who buy CDs is good also. I agre in case of free CDs most of them are wasted
[20:04] <Pendulum> TBH, I'm slightly concerned in terms of things that aren't loco related. For example, I got asked last year to get Ubuntu CDs for a Gnome A11y event
[20:04] <leogg> you should sell the CDs
[20:05] <BigWhale> JanC, in Slovenia we have similar tax. Once I wrote to our version of RIAA if I can get a refund for 300 or so CDs that contain pictures I took. They told me they'll get back to me.  :))
[20:05] <JanC> Pendulum: I suppose that shouldn't be an issue
[20:06] <leogg> The costs of the CDs (pressed or not) should not be an issue if you sell them?
[20:06] <Pendulum> JanC: it's hard to tell if it would be an issue or not. I certainly couldn't afford to send them 200 CDs out of pocket and I don't think they'd take kindly to 'burn your own' or 'here are a bunch of ones I've burned for you'
[20:07] <Pendulum> JanC: and it's unclear to me how that would be handled now that there's no ship-it
[20:07] <JanC> Pendulum: in the past you didn't need to be an approved locoteam (or a locoteam at all) to get CDs for conferences
[20:08] <Pendulum> JanC: right. but that's what's changed. So what would I tell the Gnome A11y people? (who came to be as A11y lead, not because I was part of a loco)
[20:08] <JanC> but you're right about the way to contact them
[20:08] <Pendulum> *me
[20:08] <Pendulum> there is no clearity at all to me on how conferences will be handled
[20:08] <Pendulum> *clarity
[20:08] <Pendulum> sorry, hand fail day means my typing is bad
[20:09] <BigWhale> As I gathered from Jono's blog entry, events and conferences will still get CD's, right?
[20:10] <BigWhale> They just got rid of the: "Hi, I'm Joe, send me 400 CD's, I'll be using them as coasters." 
[20:10] <BigWhale> sort of things.
[20:10] <leogg> BigWhale, only approved AFAIK
[20:10] <YoBoY> We try to ship our french live CDs everywhere in the world, perhaps other common langage loco teams are doing the same, for locoteams and gull we sell them with a lower price, only to pay the fabrication cost
[20:10] <Pendulum> BigWhale: approved locos can get them. I got confused past that.
[20:16] <JanC> YoBoY: and you sell nice metal case badges to other locoteams too!  ☺
[20:16] <YoBoY> ;)
[20:16] <JanC> people seem happy to pay for those, even if there are free ones too  ;)
[20:17] <BigWhale> What? People are making profit from open source?? Unpossible! ;>
[20:17] <UndiFineD> BigWhale, wrong
[20:17] <YoBoY> btw we plan to produce stickers this month, with no team reference on them, I'll send a mail to the ML to see if other teams want to participate when we will ready
[20:17] <JanC> BigWhale: "profit" is a big word, locoteam income goes back to promoting Ubuntu  ☺
[20:18] <BigWhale> I'm kidding. :)
[20:19] <YoBoY> making money is a necessity to be able to promote correctly Ubuntu
[20:19] <YoBoY> the items provided by canonical are great, but it's not enough
[20:20] <BigWhale> I am quite active in our LUG, I know how things go. However, we were accused of making profit from open source by some people. :)
[20:20] <BigWhale> I like to make fun out of it.
[20:21] <MichealH> I am writing this from Unity 2D :)
[20:21] <MichealH> 11.04 is great so far
[20:21] <leogg> BigWhale, show them this ---> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html :D
[20:21] <YoBoY> BigWhale: stupid people are in every places ;)
[20:22] <BigWhale> leogg, I did. I had few talks about money and open source. Some people just don't (want to) get it.
[20:23] <UndiFineD> BigWhale, http://www.techcast.com/events/cebit11/mi03/
[20:23] <leogg> :D
[20:23] <BigWhale> YoBoY, I prefer to call them, "those that are on the lower plane of reality". :>
[20:25] <BigWhale> UndiFineD, Nice. Jon's talks are always interesting.
[20:25] <UndiFineD> I watched it 2 times, shame those managers had no questions
[20:25] <YoBoY> BigWhale: well we are evil here and we have our own online store ;)
[20:38] <JanC> ah, maddog  ☺
[20:39] <BigWhale> Maddog is fun. :)
[20:39] <JanC> he's a good story teller, so he can capture his public
[20:40] <BigWhale> and he doesn't wear disk platters on his head. :>
[20:53] <Thirtysixway> with the drop of shipit, is there any way for local linux users groups (not specifically ubuntu user groups) to still get CDs?
[20:55] <head_victim> Thirtysixway: ask your LoCo to submit a request is probably the easiest way I can think of
[20:56] <Thirtysixway> okay i'll try that if we decide we want to distribute discs. thanks
[20:57] <czajkowski> no the cds will be for approved locos only
[20:58] <head_victim> czajkowski: if the loco were doing a presentation at a lug event I thought that might work out, I was hoping to have more discussion before they left.
[20:58]  * UndiFineD hands laura some batteries for the remote
[20:59] <pleia2> depends on the team, but in california I'll send up to 5 CDs to anyone who asks (more if they have an event and we have the spare CDs), lug or not, loco member or not
[21:00] <czajkowski> ot'll depend on if the team has them spare or what ever wya they give them out tbh, but only the approved teams will be able to request them
[21:00] <pleia2> anyone == anyone in the state
[21:02] <head_victim> pleia2: we just do a mailout, our rural areas are mainly still on dialup so we offer to post burnt copies out for free and have people donate the CDs and postage.
[21:03]  * pleia2 nods
[21:38]  * AlanBell has filled out the form for the Natty CDs