[00:16] <bazhang> larious is still trying to install this "free internet" thing, he claims
[00:26] <rww> #ubuntu very bad english make rww brain hurt why
[00:26] <Pici> rww is not smrt, smrt
[00:27] <LjL> rww: if you want i can hit you on the head so it has a reason to hurt
[00:28] <rww> go hit the floodbots and/or freenode on the head instead :(
[00:28] <rww> WARNING: spurious PING reply from yourface, probably heavy lag
[00:29] <LjL> WARNING: yourmom is not replying, removing limit
[00:29] <rww> WARNING: yourdad has lasted ten rounds, 'why' to know why
[00:29]  * LjL snorts
[02:36]  * rww facepalms
[02:36] <Pici> ?
[02:36] <rww> User asks what to do when they encounter error, pastes error that tells them exactly what to do.
[02:37] <Pici> the ruby one?
[02:37] <rww> ja
[03:05] <tonyyarusso> rww: hehe
[03:06] <tonyyarusso> rww: Am I allowed to be infuriated when the "telling them exactly what to do" is "Consult your network administator", when the person getting the error IS the network administrator (me) still?
[03:06] <rww> tonyyarusso: not sure, ask your network administrator
[03:06] <tonyyarusso> :P
[03:09] <IdleOne> haha
[04:31] <rww> Lubuntu still comes with a PPA enabled by default for natty, too. I guess still not official :<
[04:32] <IdleOne> I think canonical would of announced it by now if Lubuntu was official
[04:43] <tonyyarusso> IdleOne: "would HAVE"
[04:43] <IdleOne> yes, that is what I said :P
[08:12] <bazhang> apt-fast?
[08:13] <bazhang> http://www.mattparnell.com/linux/apt-fast/
[08:23] <Flannel> Besides the initial "install axel if you don't have it", it looks safe
[08:42] <KB1JWQ> What's it do?
[08:43] <KB1JWQ> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1512866 Kinda explains it, but half of the words make me think I've suffered a stroke.
[08:46] <Flannel> it just uses axel as a "download accellerator" (multiple connections per file, yadda yadda)
[08:47] <Flannel> then once you've got the debs in your cache, it does the normal apt-get command, which sees the file already there, and continues
[08:53] <Tm_T> download accelerator... bah
[08:55] <Flannel> I always thought download accelerators went out of fashion like a decade ago
[08:56] <ikonia> they are
[09:26] <ikonia> ubottu isn't responding to any !info commands in pm - but others are fine
[09:27] <bazhang> works here
[09:28] <ikonia> 09:24 <ikonia> !info yelp
[09:28] <ikonia> 09:26 <ikonia> !ping
[09:28] <ikonia> 09:26 <ubottu> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to
[09:28] <ikonia>                respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction?
[09:28] <ikonia>                Because I don't.
[09:28] <ikonia> 09:26 <ikonia> !info yelp
[09:28] <ikonia> 09:28 <ikonia> !info openssh-server
[09:28] <ikonia> other commands respond, but no !info ones
[09:29] <bazhang> yelp (source: yelp): Help browser for GNOME. In component main, is optional. Version 2.30.1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 366 kB, installed size 4568 kB
[09:29] <bazhang> perhaps try @login
[09:29] <ikonia> I get it in the channels, just not in pm
[09:29] <ikonia> @login
[09:29] <bazhang> I get it both places
[09:30] <ikonia> still nothing in pm
[09:30] <ikonia> what's the ! for china ?
[09:30] <Jordan_U> !cn
[09:30] <Flannel> ikonia: Do it in PM without the bang
[09:30] <ikonia> why did I not thing that was china ?
[09:30] <ikonia> Flannel: better, thank you
[09:37] <bazhang> he's asking if you can read chinese when he types that out
[10:28] <bburhans> It's only one line, would you like me to paste, ikonia?
[10:28] <ikonia> hey bburhans could you explain what's going on
[10:28] <ikonia> sure
[10:28] <ikonia> (didn't want to advertise it in #ubuntu)
[10:29] <bburhans> of course.
[10:29] <ikonia> thanks for joining
[10:29] <bburhans> The following was a PM with more horrific colors (I'll spare you that nuance): <ANADOLU>  hai friends anda menggunakan MIRC silakan ketik /server irc.AngelEyez.Net OR DOUBLE click ---> irc://irc.AngelEyez.Net/ABADIKARYA  ---> click YES ---> click OK
[10:29] <bburhans> I looked up anadolu's hostname and I found moinica, anadolu shares no channels with me but moinica shares #ubuntu with me, so I guess it's moinica's spambot.
[10:30] <ikonia> same ident too
[10:30] <bburhans> yep.
[10:30] <ikonia> bburhans: I'll look into it with the others
[10:30] <ikonia> bburhans: thanks for letting us know, appreciated
[10:31] <bburhans> ikonia, no problem. If you need anything else, feel free to PM me. My client won't autojoin this on invite, but I can join manually if I'm not away. Cheers.
[10:32] <ikonia> thanks
[10:37] <ikonia> anyone any thoughts on that, known spammer of offensive content irc network, spamming links, same host/ident ?
[10:37] <jussi> !staff | spammer, please remove.
[10:37] <jussi> theres my comment :)
[10:37] <ikonia> staff are already dealing with it in #freenode
[10:38] <ikonia> this is another nick on the same host/ident
[10:38] <jussi> exactly same host?
[10:38] <ikonia> yes
[10:38] <ikonia> 10:29 -!- ANADOLU [~selly@114.79.52.195]
[10:38] <ikonia> 10:30 -!- moinica [~selly@114.79.52.195]
[10:39] <jussi> so, if staff deal with the spammer, Im fairly sure the other user will be dealt with, no??
[10:40] <ikonia> I don't know
[10:40] <ikonia> hence asking for opinions on the user in #ubuntu
[10:40] <tomaw> are they still there?
[10:40] <ikonia> yes
[10:40] <ikonia> ahhh
[10:40] <ikonia> wrong, gone
[10:40] <ikonia> did it while I was talking
[10:41] <ikonia> thank you
[12:43] <knome> IdleOne, re: conversation earlier, sigue seems to have bad connection issues again (and is not replying), so i'm banforwarding him to ##fix_your_connection. let's wait for a day or so, or even wait until (s)he replies anything
[13:07] <ikonia> Pici: what happened with that ban I set ?
[13:08] <Pici> *!hu@*.sbcglobal.net doesn't match hu!~hu@adsl-75-10-108-54.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net
[13:08] <LjL> it was dodged :P
[13:08] <LjL> ah
[13:08] <ikonia> I got that part
[13:08] <ikonia> I don't know what the ~ is for ?
[13:08] <LjL> ikonia: ~ means you didn't have an identd responding when you connected
[13:08] <LjL> if you don't have the ~, then an identd responded
[13:09] <LjL> which could mean everything or nothing, really. it's sort of meaningful when it comes from a shell provider
[13:09] <LjL> it means that unless the shell provider itself is cheating, the user can't change the ident
[13:09] <Pici> Since it was a rather wide ban, I felt it was better to explicitly say ~ rather than replacing it with ?
[13:09] <ikonia> so how did he get passed the *!hu!@*.his-isp.com
[13:09] <LjL> Pici: i don't think ? even works, ? doesn't match zero characters, does it?
[13:09]  * Pici shrugs
[13:10] <LjL> Pici: must use * now i believe
[13:10] <LjL> ikonia: "~hu" is not "hu" as far as ban matching is concerned
[13:10] <Pici> ikonia: And he was never hu!hu@*
[13:11] <ikonia> sorry, I'm missing it
[13:11] <ikonia> he was "hu" nick and "hu" ident
[13:11] <LjL> no, the ident was "~hu"
[13:12] <ikonia> ahhh
[13:12] <ikonia> ok, I see it
[13:12] <ikonia> sorry, just clicked
[13:12] <ikonia> thank you
[15:59] <ikonia> guys - I want to review the "non-standard-ubuntu-distro" support for things like VPS
[16:00] <ikonia> I've just wasted time on a VPS box that's modified by the vendor to use a Redhat kernel, and the sudoers file is non standard as are other things
[16:00] <ikonia> I feel pretty strong that we shouldn't be supporting this stuff, we don't support mint/backtrack/others which are almost identical, but we do support these man-hacked distros
[16:01] <ikonia> why are we giving out time to these people who hack a free distro and then charge for it
[16:10] <maco> LjL: i thought ? was specifically for 0 or 1 characters
[16:11] <tsimpson> maco: '?' is for any single character, but exactly one of them. like the '.' in regexp
[16:12] <tsimpson> '*' is equivalent to '.*' in regexp
[16:13] <maco> this isnt regex?
[16:13] <tsimpson> no, it's IRC specific stuff
[16:13] <tsimpson> IRC only has '.' and '*' for pattern matching anyway
[16:14] <maco> oh
[16:14] <tsimpson> erm, '?' not '.'
[16:14] <tsimpson> see, confusing... ;)
[16:15] <tsimpson> it probably gets turned into regex on the server, but the protocol only defines the two pattern matching operators
[16:18] <popey> ikonia: how about because the official support for ubuntu server in a VPS is pretty bad
[16:19] <popey> ikonia: so people end up running oddball stuff because the stock ubuntu stuff flat out does not work
[16:19] <popey> e.g. xen.
[16:20] <jrib> ikonia: I think it's fine to have people ask for support as long as they disclose that their system is modified.  Especially, because there isn't an irc alternative to turn them to.  Leave it up to the helpers if they want to help
[16:20] <popey> sometimes people don't know their system is modified
[16:20] <popey> because it was modified by the vps vendor
[16:26] <maco> i was surprised to learn my vps runs an alternative kernel
[16:28] <popey> the vendor I use used to use debian 2.6.18 kernels for a long time because the Ubuntu ones are broken
[16:28] <popey> he filed a bug
[16:28] <popey> then
[16:28] <popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
[16:34] <jrib> hmm, I expected it to move across my screen
[16:35] <jrib> (and rotate)
[16:35] <jpds> popey: jrib would like that HTML5'ed.
[16:35] <jrib> I dragged it with my mouse
[16:37] <ikonia> jrib: a lot of the people don't know it's modifed
[16:37] <popey> patches welcome
[16:37] <ikonia> jrib: thes vendors can do what they want, and not have to deal with it as official ubuntu services such as community support pick up the slack
[16:37] <ikonia> popey: fully agree ubuntu server stock is a poor option, but then that's the server team to take the feedback and make it more usable
[16:37] <popey> yup
[16:38] <popey> meanwhile
[16:38] <popey> LTS still in the wild, people still asking for support.
[16:38] <jrib> ikonia: but if the user doesn't know its modified, then there's really nothing we can ask of the user
[16:38] <ikonia> but these are not the LTS distros
[16:38] <ikonia> jrib: no, I appreciate that, if they don't know, they are not trying to miss-lead
[16:38] <ikonia> however if support stops, people would think twice about purchasing this
[16:39] <ikonia> we are essentially supporting a comercial product for free
[16:39] <jrib> hmm
[16:39] <ikonia> plus it conflicts with the stance of things like backtrack that we don't support
[16:39] <ikonia> as that is modified ubuntu
[16:40] <jrib> my view has always been that there is a better place on irc to get support for things like backtrack
[16:40] <popey> that wasn't really my point ikonia
[16:40] <ikonia> there is also the risk that offering generic ubuntu support on a modified system will do damage to his system, as the commands I just gave did
[16:40] <ikonia> popey: apologies if I missed it
[16:40] <popey> i was pointing out there are many broken linux installs out there
[16:40] <popey> and they will be for some time
[16:40] <ikonia> yes, and the broken ones we can fix and support
[16:40] <ikonia> (or try to)
[16:40] <popey> we can do what we can to support them
[16:41] <popey> yup
[16:41] <popey> I don't like the idea of refusing support to people just because someone else has done their best to make Ubuntu work
[16:41] <ikonia> however comercial services/products that have been modified I don't believe we should be picking up
[16:41] <popey> like adding a non-ubuntu kernel, or replacing sudo config with something more applicable
[16:41] <ikonia> popey: using a redhat kernel is not making their ubuntu work
[16:41] <ikonia> nor is changing the admin group to "sudo" group
[16:41] <ikonia> my advice broke his machine
[16:41] <ikonia> there was no need for that change
[16:41] <popey> uhm
[16:42] <popey> if I'm honest, thats your fault, not his
[16:42] <ikonia> why ?
[16:42] <ikonia> he said he was running ubuntu
[16:42] <popey> you could have asked for a pastebin of his sudoers first
[16:42] <ikonia> popey: why would I
[16:42] <popey> and given him the mods
[16:42] <popey> because you can't possibly know whats in it
[16:42] <popey> unless you ASS U ME
[16:42] <ikonia> he said he added it to the sudoers group - it's the wrong group on ubuntu
[16:42] <jrib> I think it's fair to assume someone is using stock ubuntu unless they say otherwise
[16:42] <popey> yes, fair to assume
[16:42] <popey> but not fair to refuse support
[16:43] <ikonia> why ?
[16:43] <popey> which is what ikonia is suggesting
[16:43] <ikonia> these are comercial products
[16:43] <ikonia> we don't support other non-comercial products
[16:43] <popey> those two sentences don't make sense together
[16:43] <ikonia> we are picking up the slack of poor vendor hacking
[16:43] <ikonia> they won't start doing a better job
[16:43] <ikonia> which ones ?
[16:43] <popey> 16:43:06 <+ikonia> these are comercial products
[16:43] <popey> 16:43:15 <+ikonia> we don't support other non-comercial products
[16:43] <ikonia> sorry, I'll clarify
[16:44] <ikonia> we are supporting comercial products - that make money for businesses becuase they do a poor job
[16:44] <ikonia> we don't support other non-ubuntu noncomercial products that are for community benifit so why should we pickup someones business support
[16:44] <popey> uhm
[16:45] <popey> do we help people install skype?
[16:45] <jrib> I think we can accomplish the same thing and at least help the user out when it's possible by just pointing out to the user that the system has been modified and it makes it harder to support.  To that end, they should contact their vendor first.  But if someone still wants to try and help out in #ubuntu, I don't think we should disallow that
[16:45] <ikonia> install yes, as that is the ubuntu product that does the install
[16:45] <popey> do we help people configure their sound settings in skype?
[16:45] <popey> (I do)
[16:45] <ikonia> I personally just feel bad that people (I) am giving my time to support someone who is making money out of selling ubuntu
[16:46] <ikonia> popey: that is ubuntu configuration
[16:46] <popey> wut
[16:46] <ikonia> popey: do we help people configure their sound settings on backtrack ?
[16:46] <popey> I'm talking about the sound settings in skype
[16:46] <popey> not ubuntu
[16:46] <ikonia> I certainly don't as I'm not aware of any specific settings that need to be configured
[16:46] <popey> and network settings in skype that give better connections
[16:46] <ikonia> plus that's running an application on ubuntu
[16:47] <popey> these are very specific and tenuous distinctions to make IMO
[16:47] <ikonia> would you support my install if I installed a custom redhat kernel on there ?
[16:47] <ikonia> !custom-kernel
[16:47] <popey> of course
[16:47] <popey> if I could
[16:47] <ikonia> I'm sure there is a factoid
[16:47] <ikonia> really ?
[16:47] <popey> depends what the issue is of course
[16:47] <IdleOne> !compile
[16:47] <IdleOne> hmm
[16:47] <jrib> ikonia: would you stop popey from supporting another user with a custom redhat kernel in #ubuntu?
[16:47] <popey> why wouldn't I?
[16:47] <ikonia> jrib: I'd certainly ask him not to
[16:48] <jrib> hmm
[16:48] <popey> what could I possibly achieve by refusing to support another ubuntu user?
[16:48] <popey> o_O
[16:48] <ikonia> where is the factoid for the customer kernel, one moment
[16:48] <ikonia> !kernel
[16:48] <ikonia> darn it
[16:48] <popey> I dont believe barking factoids at me will change my opinion tbh
[16:48] <IdleOne> ikonia: I thought !compile was it
[16:49] <popey> it just reinforces that the decision has been made to type a "fact" into a bot
[16:49] <ikonia> nah, there is one that says we don't support custom kernels
[16:49] <popey> just because there is a factoid about it, doesn't mean I agree with it
[16:49] <ikonia> popey: not at all, if the stance is we support modified ubuntu, then we need to change the factoids
[16:49] <ikonia> popey: a ton of the support processes in #ubuntu I don't agree with, and I don't think the bot makes it "fact"
[16:49] <popey> ok, i misunderstood why you were poking the bot
[16:49] <ikonia> however if there is a break in stance eg: it's not fact, but the bot issues it as factual information we need to alighn
[16:50] <ikonia> align
[16:50] <jrib> ikonia: personally, I think that if a conversation is related to ubuntu support and there is not a better place for it, then I don't mind it in #ubuntu
[16:51] <ikonia> personally, most of the stuff I don't mind, however if the bots are showing things are not supported, then we need to change them, or make the helpers aware that we don't support it and be in alignment
[16:51] <popey> My stance is that one component installed on an Ubuntu system should not render a system completely unsupportable in #ubuntu
[16:52] <popey> obviously it depends what the issues are, the components are and so on, it's not black and white
[16:52] <jrib> sure
[16:52] <ikonia> I think we are stretching community effort to support comercial ubuntu custom builds with redhat based kernels and modified sudo files
[16:52] <ikonia> those are pretty much "core" to it being ubuntu
[16:52] <popey> i.e. if someone rocked up with a "why does ls show uid's and not usernames" question and we learn they have a RHEL kernel on their Ubuntu box, we should still try to support them.
[16:53] <ikonia> ok, I disagree on that
[16:53] <ikonia> it's ubuntu support not linux support,
[16:53] <popey> ls is shipped in ubuntu
[16:53] <ikonia> but I'm happy to fall in line if that's the consensus
[16:53] <popey> and is not part of the kernel
[16:53] <ikonia> popey: so is an ubuntu kernel
[16:53] <ikonia> but what else has been changed
[16:53] <jrib> well the decision to support or not is always up to the particular person doing the support.  I don't see why we should prevent one user from helping another, ever
[16:53] <popey> yeah, and its not a kernel question
[16:53] <ikonia> you're starting to pull apart a custom distro
[16:54] <popey> ok, and we can alert the user that "my advice may not apply because I have never used the combination you have, but _I_ would do the following ..."
[16:54] <popey> its a fairly standard disclaimer
[16:54] <ikonia> we may as well start supprting mint and back track then
[16:54] <ikonia> as it's no different for them
[16:54] <popey> refusing support because one component is replaced seems un-community
[16:54] <ikonia> ]how do you know it's one component
[16:54] <popey> i disagree
[16:55] <ikonia> you'll have to start pulling apart the distro to find out what else is changed
[16:55] <popey> that entirely depends what's gone wrong
[16:55] <jrib> ikonia: but if popey doesn't mind doing that, why do we care?
[16:55] <popey> you don't have to pull the entire distro apart
[16:55] <jrib> in the past, I've said something like "on a default ubuntu install, one would ....  But your system has been modified so you should ask [whoever] for support"
[16:55] <ikonia> jrib: others in the channel who do have an ubuntu issue that is related to the ubuntu products get missed
[16:55] <ikonia> jrib: I don't see a problem with your last statment
[16:56] <popey> oh please
[16:56] <popey> thats tantermount to telling people "don't work on firefox because then less people are working on the kernel"
[16:56] <popey> people answer the questions they choose to
[16:56] <ikonia> not at all
[16:56] <popey> and the questions they feel 'qualified' to answer
[16:56] <ikonia> ok, so in that case why not make #ubuntu open to support all ubuntu based distros
[16:57] <popey> because mint and backtrack are known quantities
[16:57] <popey> I am not saying accept all
[16:57] <popey> I am saying "don't reject all"
[16:57] <ikonia> popey: right, so we should be able to support hte known quantities
[16:57] <jrib> ikonia: because there exist other irc channels where people can go and get *better* support
[16:57] <ikonia> they are %99 ubuntu so should be easier to support
[16:57] <ikonia> jrib: those channels can be quiet poor, why not help them
[16:57] <popey> i need to go home :(
[16:58] <jrib> anyone that wants to help them can go to that channel
[16:58] <ikonia> (%99 was of course a random figure, I know different derivatives vary)
[16:58] <popey> which is annoying because this is an interesting discussion
[16:58] <ikonia> jrib: why - I can help them in #ubuntu
[16:58] <ikonia> popey: I'm sure it will be back ;)
[16:58] <popey> heh
[16:59] <jrib> ikonia: but not everyone in the backtrack channel will be in #ubuntu, so the user won't be getting the same level of support
[16:59] <jrib> go to the backtrack channel if you want people claiming to be knowledgeable about backtrack
[16:59] <jrib> go to ubuntu channel if you want people claiming to be knowledgeable about ubuntu
[16:59] <ikonia> jrib: but I I know the answer, I can just help them now
[16:59] <ikonia> just give them the answer there and then
[17:00] <jrib> ikonia: that's true for some questions, but not all
[17:00] <ikonia> yes, but if I can answer the question which should be %90 of the ubuntu questions -> convert to back track answer, I should just help them
[17:00] <jrib> by informing people about the backtrack channel, even for questions that are obviously distro-agnostic, they know they of the right channel for help with their distribution
[17:01] <jrib> s/know they/learn
[17:01] <ikonia> jrib: ok, so "back track support can be found in #backtrack-linux, but I'll help you with that custom kernel no, so install make"
[17:01] <jrib> ikonia: yeah
[17:01] <ikonia> I can point them at backtrack support, but help them in #ubuntu
[17:01] <ikonia> if I was using ubuntu, here is what I'd do
[17:01] <ikonia> backtrack is pretty much the same, so you should be fine with it [disclaimer]
[17:02] <jrib> ikonia: sure if you want to.  They can just come in #ubuntu and claim to use ubuntu anyway (and get the same information)
[17:03] <jrib> I always see pointing people to the backtrack channel as making sure they get help from people who know about the particulars of backtrack
[17:03] <jrib> I don't
[17:03] <ikonia> I do , so I could help them
[17:03] <jrib> Sure, that helps alleviate traffic and that's something to consider, but I don't see it as the main reason to send people to the other channel
[17:04] <ikonia> there isn't
[17:04] <ikonia> based on what you/popey have just said, it's fine to support them in #ubuntu, so fine
[17:04] <maco> the trouble with trying to help Backtrack users is that it uses KDE3 so the menus are totally unfamiliar to anyone but a Kubuntu KDE3 Hardy user
[17:04] <ikonia> make them aware of #backtrack-linux but still offer them support in #ubuntu
[17:04] <ikonia> maco: it also uses gnome, which is identical in version
[17:05] <maco> it does?
[17:05] <ikonia> it has a gnome desktop
[17:05] <maco> i thought it just booted straight into kde3 the times ive used it...
[17:05] <jrib> ikonia: yes, but as before, by sending them to the backtrack channel you 1) make them aware of a channel full of people like you that know about backtrack and 2) they're more likely to get better backtrack-related support in the backtrack channel (not in #ubuntu)
[17:05] <ikonia> jrib: so why is me sending someone to their VPS vendor for a Redhat kernel on ubuntu not going to get them better support
[17:06] <jrib> ikonia: it is
[17:06] <ikonia> oh, cool
[17:06] <ikonia> sorry, I may have miss-understood
[17:06] <jrib> ikonia: you should do that.  But as there is no irc place to send people to, I think we should allow people to provide support (if they choose to do so) in #ubuntu
[17:07] <ikonia> jrib: ok, in the same way, we can support backtrack in #ubuntu if no-one is free in #backtrack
[17:08] <ikonia> as thats the same as there being no-one to send them to, sending them to a channel with 3 core guys on that are only awake usa time
[17:08] <maco> i'm confused
 nor is changing the admin group to "sudo" group
[17:10] <maco> my /etc/sudoers has both      %sudo ALL=(ALL) ALL     and     %admin ALL=(ALL) ALL     and this is an install from a CD, not from a VPS
[17:11] <jrib> ikonia: no in that case, I'd suggest you join #backtrack to help
[17:11] <jrib> because that is an irc place for backtrack questions
[17:11]  * jrib wonders if ikonia is creating #ubuntu-randomchanges
[17:11] <IdleOne> Actually I think you and ikonia are on the same page.
[17:11] <jrib> liar
[17:11] <ikonia> jrib: #ubuntu-vps-support
[17:11] <ikonia> :)
[17:12] <ikonia> I'm kidding
[17:14] <ikonia> in seriousness though it maybe worth having a channel for the modified ones and make a wiki page for all the known mods and work arounds
[17:14] <ikonia> eg: the sudoers file changes on whatever provider that guy had
[17:15] <jrib> (mine does too)
[17:15] <IdleOne> I think what needs to be clarified is the difference between what #ubuntu supports and if any one user wants to help with a specific issue. Sure if you feel that you can help that non-ubuntu specific issue please feel free to do so but there are better channels to do it in. using #ubuntu as a one stop shop to help everybody will not be helpful to the community.
[17:16] <ikonia> plus if it gets a bit long winded then it's in a quieter channel
[17:16] <ikonia> we can also ask the vendors to throw some cash at canonical for picking up their support ;)
[17:16] <ikonia> if we document the known big ones, linode for example which does really minor changes we could support it more realistically ?
[17:16] <jrib> if someone wants to do that, it would definitely make support easier (and likely better for the end-user)
[17:17] <jrib> by "that" I mainly mean the documentation of modifications.  I'm not sure a whole new channel is needed
[17:17] <ikonia> jrib: depends, would have been nice to go through the guy I was talking with's box and make him aware of all the issues he's had/going to have and how to counter them
[17:17] <ikonia> more so if there is a reference document
[17:18] <jrib> ikonia: though I definitely understand where you are coming from.  I can recall a few times where I was very confused by what the user was telling me and it turns out there was due to some non-standard configuration he wasn't aware of (because his vps vendor had done it)
[17:19] <ikonia> jrib: I've had a few nasty ones like that also, a few like the one I've just delt with where it wasn't obvious and it bit me, I gave the user bad advice
[17:19] <maco> do we even know for sure that the missing line was a vendor mod and not a user messing up with backspace?
[17:19] <ikonia> maco: I'm pretty sure it's a vendor change, I've seen it before and the kernel backs up it's modified
[17:19] <ikonia> no way to be %100 spot on certain though
[17:19] <ikonia> there are others ones with additions to the sudoers file for on-site support sudo access
[17:20] <ikonia> eg: %rackspace = all(all)
[17:20] <jrib> yeah my linode doesn't have "admin", just "sudo"
[17:20] <ikonia> really, interesting,
[17:20] <ikonia> I thought the linnode stuff was much less obvious than that
[17:20] <ikonia> that sort of stuff would be helpful to know/document
[17:22] <jrib> I agree
[17:23] <maco> there's no %rackspace in my rackspace vps
[17:23] <maco> but there is just sudo, no admin
[17:23] <maco> though my rackspace is lucid and the cd-install i'm comparing to is maverick
[17:24] <ikonia> maco: it was an example
[19:09] <Pici> !no shipit is <reply> Canonical is no longer sending free Ubuntu CDs through its ShipIt program.  For more information please see http://blog.canonical.com/?p=551
[19:09] <LjL> :(
[19:09] <charlie-tca__> really?
[19:10] <Pici> yep.
[19:10] <IdleOne> :(
[19:10] <IdleOne> that sucks
[19:10] <Pici> LoCos still get CDs though, through another channel.
[19:12] <IdleOne> Well that is good
[19:12] <Pici> Also, I'm not spelling it 'programme' in the factoid.
[20:15] <Pici> o.o
[20:17] <maco> we have someone pretending to be Nixie Pixel of OMGUbuntu