/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/05/#xubuntu-devel.txt

Aquinahy09:47
likemindeadThis morning's updates borked my Xubuntu Natty install. Freezes up at login screen. Freezes up trying to boot to recovery mode. Halp?16:49
=== ubott2 is now known as ubottu
PsynoKhi0hi17:26
PsynoKhi0boy is qemu slow w/o hardware vitualisation XD17:37
charlie-tca__What about VBox?17:37
micahgyeah, that's why I'm stuck with Virtualbox until I get my new laptop17:37
PsynoKhi0does that work at all on a CPU that doesn't have hardware virtualization extensions?17:37
micahgPsynoKhi0: 32 bit yet, 64 bit now17:37
micahg*no17:37
PsynoKhi032 bit vbox, or 32 bit guest?17:38
micahg32 bit gues17:38
micahg*guest17:38
PsynoKhi0oh17:38
PsynoKhi0brb17:53
PsynoKhi0damn, missing kernel driver...18:04
micahgPsynoKhi0: install virtualbox-ose-dkms18:04
PsynoKhi0I'm running opensuse ;)18:06
charlie-tca__heh18:08
charlie-tca__much harder to help when you run that18:08
knomenot only harder, but renders it to be not-our-problem :P18:08
PsynoKhi0ah... btw, the virtual machine I'm setting up is xubuntu natty beta 118:10
PsynoKhi0^^18:10
charlie-tca__yeah, but the VBox guest is not the issue, the host is18:10
PsynoKhi0I know I know... simply clearing things up so you guys don't start thinking "wtf is this bloke doing here anyway?" :D18:11
knomePsynoKhi0, well #ubuntu+1 for bugreports ;)18:11
charlie-tca__Not on opensuse18:11
knomeheh, of course not18:12
micahgknome: #ubuntu+1 is only for natty support18:12
charlie-tca__and, actually, to tell us here about issues in natty is good18:12
knomebut if he gets to boot natty18:12
micahgs/natty/devel release/18:12
micahg#ubuntu-bugs is for bug filing18:12
charlie-tca__This is the devel channel, right?18:12
* micahg thinks /topic still says that18:12
knomemicahg, bugs should be filed at Launchpad anyway18:12
knome:P18:12
knomenot on irc18:12
charlie-tca__Then, Yes, tell us about natty issues here, please18:12
PsynoKhi0FIY I don't run any *buntu anymore but I still think it's the best for new users, so anything that helps GNU/Linux adoption is good18:13
micahgknome: I meant help filing bugs, not reporting them :P18:13
knome:P18:13
charlie-tca__support for natty is #ubuntu+1, issues should be brought up in #xubuntu-devel. We might be able to resolve them before filing the bug.18:13
knomecharlie-tca__, so should we point all users (even when alpha) here rather than #ubuntu+1 with their problems?18:13
charlie-tca__knome: don't be silly18:14
knomei am serious18:14
charlie-tca__so am I18:14
knomewhat makes you think i'm joking?18:14
charlie-tca__obvious you did not read what I said above18:14
charlie-tca__support for natty is #ubuntu+1, issues should be brought up in #xubuntu-devel. We might be able to resolve them before filing the bug.18:14
charlie-tca__Where does that say point all natty users here?18:15
knomecharlie-tca__, i did, no reason to repeat; "issues should be brought in #xubuntu-devel"18:15
knome+up18:15
knomethat says "tell them to come here"18:15
charlie-tca__Why would you ever decide that? 18:15
knomeyou said so18:16
knomei've been pointing users to #ubuntu+118:16
knomeif a user has a problem with a xubuntu development release, where should he go?18:16
knome#ubuntu+1 ?18:16
knomebut tell the issues here?18:16
knomeso both?18:16
knomeor do we only want issues after beta is released?18:17
* micahg thinks the issues charlie-tca__ was referring to were actual bugs, not just how tos18:17
charlie-tca__All support questions go to #ubuntu+1 for natty. All development issues go here.18:17
knomeis there *support* even in #ubuntu+1 before beta?18:18
charlie-tca__and you are simply being obstinate again18:18
micahgs/actual/perceived/18:18
charlie-tca__There is support in #ubuntu+1 before alpha1 normally18:18
knomecharlie-tca__, i'm not being stubborn, i'm trying to point people to the correct place18:18
charlie-tca__If 18:18
knomecharlie-tca__, how does a user/helper know when it's a development issue and when not?18:19
charlie-tca__If we are not to know about issues before beta, why do we ask anyone to file bugs when they discover problems?18:19
charlie-tca__There is nothing that says you can not install +1 as soon as possible and have problems with it.18:19
knomeof course, but what separates a problem and a development issue?18:20
charlie-tca__If they come in here, we allow them to tell us the issue. We can then decide, can't we?18:20
knomeokay, so does that mean everybody should be sent here first and not #ubuntu+1 ?18:20
charlie-tca__no18:20
* micahg feels like he's in a time warp18:21
* knome feels like charlie isn't coherent18:21
Unit193I think knome is asking at what point do you get sent here?18:21
PsynoKhi0hmm gonna file a bug for an infinite loop in the xubuntu-devel IRC channel, brb...18:21
PsynoKhi0;P18:21
charlie-tca__It's not really as hard as you make it18:21
knomeUnit193, yes, that, and what kind of issues should be sent here18:22
knomecharlie-tca__, please remember that you are the one that's triaging bugs18:22
charlie-tca__If the user comes in here and tells us he has a problem with natty, we do not send them away. We ask what is wrong18:22
knomecharlie-tca__, when it's alpha, i might not know *anything* about the dev release bugs18:22
knomecharlie-tca__, you do18:22
charlie-tca__We might have a fix already, that has not been published yet18:22
knomethat's the difference18:22
knomecharlie-tca__, that's why it's easy for you18:22
charlie-tca__and that is why *you* do not send the user away from here18:23
knomei didn't?18:23
knomei was asking whether i should send the user *TO* here18:23
knomeor #ubuntu+118:23
knomebut i still don't have an answer18:23
micahgknome: support #ubuntu+1, perceived bugs here18:24
knomemicahg, in which way perceived? by the dev community or the single supported?18:26
knome*supported18:26
knomeBAH18:26
knomesupporter18:26
micahgknome: if the user is about to file a bug, come here first18:26
knomehow many times are they going to file bugs, even with non-development versions, if you don't tell them to? :)18:26
knomebbl18:29
PsynoKhi0heh I needed to reboot :P18:50
PsynoKhi0vbox now works... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand natty beta1 is up yay :D18:50
Unit193PsynoKhi0: Just be glad it's not like Win updates... "You have just updated your help file, you need to reboot" then tells you every 5min and if you don't click "wait" it's going to reboot FOR you18:51
PsynoKhi0I mean the vbox kernel driver needed a reboot to get loaded18:53
PsynoKhi0a modprobe might have worked too but oh well18:53
PsynoKhi0anyway... still stuck with that tiny icon for the main menu eh?18:53
charlie-tca__natty?18:54
charlie-tca__yes18:54
PsynoKhi0at least something happens when one puts the mouse pointer over it...18:58
charlie-tca__yup18:58
PsynoKhi0I'd still go for something similar to Opera 11 and Firefox 4 though18:59
charlie-tca__We did give you firefox 418:59
PsynoKhi0I mean their main menu button19:00
charlie-tca__Now I am lost19:01
charlie-tca__They are applications, not desktops19:01
PsynoKhi0http://www.opera.com/browser/ Opera 11, http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Firefox_4_beta_screenshot.png&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Firefox_4_beta_screenshot.png&usg=__9ruSktmNUHoKAUIGRu4_ZOTLeWs=&h=224&w=457&sz=82&hl=sv&start=21&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=O0Ma-sIwUAayjM:&tbnh=63&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfirefox%2B4%2Bscreenshots%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dsv%19:03
PsynoKhi026client%3Dopera%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dsv%26tbm%3Disch&ei=P1mbTYr7A4jVsgadv7H8BQ Firefox 4419:03
PsynoKhi0urgh19:03
PsynoKhi0http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Firefox_4_beta_screenshot.png Firefox 419:03
PsynoKhi0http://img232.imageshack.us/f/panelit3bigmenubutton14.png/ this was a suggestion19:05
PsynoKhi0IMo main menu button = largest element on an empty panel19:05
PsynoKhi0other than that, congrats on the polished desktop19:07
charlie-tca__for reasons I can't remember but are in the meeting minutes, we can't do it this time19:07
PsynoKhi0XFCE's limitations?19:08
charlie-tca__Ubuntu got us, I think19:08
charlie-tca__Much of what they do affects us19:08
PsynoKhi0are you referring to the Ubuntu wheel in my proposal?19:09
charlie-tca__No, the reason we can not grow the button big19:09
PsynoKhi0if so np, dump it for a downwards pointing arrow or so19:09
PsynoKhi0oh19:09
PsynoKhi0man that's weird19:09
PsynoKhi0for people who slam "user experience" and "usability" left and right...19:10
PsynoKhi0I mean, the icon for shutting down the computer is LARGE than the one to do most of the useful things with it, for crying out loud...19:11
PsynoKhi0LARGER*19:11
charlie-tca__It will be for this release19:12
charlie-tca__the end of an era:  http://blog.canonical.com/?p=55119:13
charlie-tca__no more shipit service for Ubuntu CD's19:13
charlie-tca__hm, I should have said it will not be larger for this natty release. Perhaps a way will be found to grow it for oneiric19:14
PsynoKhi0ok19:15
PsynoKhi0is there a preview of the installation slideshow anywhere?19:15
PsynoKhi0if at least the menu button and the dock make it there...19:16
charlie-tca__must be one in bazaar, but I don't know the details. It is on the live cd19:16
PsynoKhi0./usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow :)19:23
PsynoKhi0./usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow/slides/05-desktop.html to be precise... it shows the main menu, the launcher panel, so this is I think really nice19:25
PsynoKhi0also liking the fact that content is hidden by default when moving windows around, great for not so peppy computers19:26
PsynoKhi0we have a winner here :)19:26
PsynoKhi0gigolo installed by default, awesome19:27
PsynoKhi0hmm is it XFCE's default to have the font that big in the terminal?19:32
charlie-tca__That big?19:32
charlie-tca__Is it 10 or 12 pt?19:32
PsynoKhi0bigger than the rest of the desktop in any case19:32
PsynoKhi01219:32
PsynoKhi0setting it to 10 makes it more homogenous with the rest though19:33
charlie-tca__It only appears bigger, normal fonts should be 12 pt, but that might not be droid fonts19:33
charlie-tca__That should be monospaced, right?19:33
PsynoKhi0the font yes, the size set to 12 makes it look bigger though19:34
charlie-tca__mr_pouit: is it possible to change the size of the default terminal font?19:36
PsynoKhi0I know I'm very picky when it comes to the desktop's overall consistent look :D19:36
PsynoKhi0I like gigolo, though I suppose having the menu entry decribing what it does rather than what it's called might be better for users who've never used it19:39
charlie-tca__menu names are fixed, it causes a lot of other issues to change them19:40
PsynoKhi0ah, shame19:40
PsynoKhi0shame too that I didn't take the time to have the mouse pointer over the name >.<19:41
Unit193Quick idiot question: does gigolo do local disks? (don't have two in this box)19:46
charlie-tca__no, it does network drives, normally windows19:46
PsynoKhi0hmm I remember local drives not present in fstab appearing  in Gigolo19:47
Unit193Thanks charlie-tca__, I have used gigolo for SMB...19:47
PsynoKhi0partitions, more exactly19:48
PsynoKhi0though I never tried to mount them there19:48
charlie-tca__I could be wrong, I mount mine through ssh19:55
charlie-tca__pleia2: the wireframe - compositing bug should be fixed on tomorrows images20:04
pleia2charlie-tca__: I saw the bug update! yay :) I'll try to find time to test20:04
charlie-tca__Thanks for doing the testing you did!20:04
mr_pouitcharlie-tca__: yup, it's possible20:32
charlie-tca__Apparently the 12pt monospace looks big compared to the droid 12pt default now20:35
charlie-tca__We should look at making it 10pt, maybe, just for the mono font20:36
charlie-tca__PsynoKhi0: bug report for terminal font, please. It will be wishlist, to change the font size.20:36
charlie-tca__PsynoKhi0: it will against xfce4-terminal20:39
mr_pouitno, against xubuntu-default-settings20:40
charlie-tca__oops20:41
charlie-tca__PsynoKhi0: it will be against xubuntu-default-settings20:41
mr_pouitand I think 10pt might be too small20:41
charlie-tca__I guess I have to do an install and look at it, but droid is smaller than normal, too20:42
charlie-tca__At least to my eyes20:42
charlie-tca__I don't think any font on my system is at the defaults, I reset everyone of them.20:43
charlie-tca__and I change them in each app too, so they stay where I put them20:44
mr_pouitwith the default syntax coloration in the shell, when you do "ls", folders are in blue color, bold font, and I'm not sure it'll be very readable if the font is too small20:44
charlie-tca__at least a wishlist bug will keep us from forgetting to check it out20:44
mr_pouitanyway, that will be different for everyone, so it's annoying to have a default setting ;>20:45
charlie-tca__crap, I must have changed that too, then20:45
charlie-tca__So, we don't even need the default setting? ;-)20:45
charlie-tca__oops, I don't think I even look at terminal much, since I install guake on my system20:46
mr_pouitI think the default default setting is even bigger ;]20:46
charlie-tca__might be20:47
=== ochosi_ is now known as ochosi
PsynoKhi0erm does creating a Launchpad account REALLY requires one's real full name?21:31
charlie-tca__yes21:32
PsynoKhi0then sorry21:33
charlie-tca__Keeps things honest21:33
PsynoKhi0I understand the reasoning behind it, though unfortunately having my name for all to see on the web gives me the creeps21:36
mr_pouitI think you can put whatever in it21:37
charlie-tca__I googled my full name, first, middle, last, and found out there are a half dozen of us in the USA alone.21:37
charlie-tca__and it is pretty unique21:37
PsynoKhi0that's why I prefer the brainstorm page to launchpad21:40
Unit193PsynoKhi0: My first and last name are the only ones in USA, so I just put: firstname and first letter of lastname21:50
charlie-tca__I have seen some use their email name, too (part before the @)21:51
PsynoKhi0I'll give it some thought :) bedtime now though, good night!22:34

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