[09:47] <Aquina> hy
[16:49] <likemindead> This morning's updates borked my Xubuntu Natty install. Freezes up at login screen. Freezes up trying to boot to recovery mode. Halp?
[17:26] <PsynoKhi0> hi
[17:37] <PsynoKhi0> boy is qemu slow w/o hardware vitualisation XD
[17:37] <charlie-tca__> What about VBox?
[17:37] <micahg> yeah, that's why I'm stuck with Virtualbox until I get my new laptop
[17:37] <PsynoKhi0> does that work at all on a CPU that doesn't have hardware virtualization extensions?
[17:37] <micahg> PsynoKhi0: 32 bit yet, 64 bit now
[17:37] <micahg> *no
[17:38] <PsynoKhi0> 32 bit vbox, or 32 bit guest?
[17:38] <micahg> 32 bit gues
[17:38] <micahg> *guest
[17:38] <PsynoKhi0> oh
[17:53] <PsynoKhi0> brb
[18:04] <PsynoKhi0> damn, missing kernel driver...
[18:04] <micahg> PsynoKhi0: install virtualbox-ose-dkms
[18:06] <PsynoKhi0> I'm running opensuse ;)
[18:08] <charlie-tca__> heh
[18:08] <charlie-tca__> much harder to help when you run that
[18:08] <knome> not only harder, but renders it to be not-our-problem :P
[18:10] <PsynoKhi0> ah... btw, the virtual machine I'm setting up is xubuntu natty beta 1
[18:10] <PsynoKhi0> ^^
[18:10] <charlie-tca__> yeah, but the VBox guest is not the issue, the host is
[18:11] <PsynoKhi0> I know I know... simply clearing things up so you guys don't start thinking "wtf is this bloke doing here anyway?" :D
[18:11] <knome> PsynoKhi0, well #ubuntu+1 for bugreports ;)
[18:11] <charlie-tca__> Not on opensuse
[18:12] <knome> heh, of course not
[18:12] <micahg> knome: #ubuntu+1 is only for natty support
[18:12] <charlie-tca__> and, actually, to tell us here about issues in natty is good
[18:12] <knome> but if he gets to boot natty
[18:12] <micahg> s/natty/devel release/
[18:12] <micahg> #ubuntu-bugs is for bug filing
[18:12] <charlie-tca__> This is the devel channel, right?
[18:12]  * micahg thinks /topic still says that
[18:12] <knome> micahg, bugs should be filed at Launchpad anyway
[18:12] <knome> :P
[18:12] <knome> not on irc
[18:12] <charlie-tca__> Then, Yes, tell us about natty issues here, please
[18:13] <PsynoKhi0> FIY I don't run any *buntu anymore but I still think it's the best for new users, so anything that helps GNU/Linux adoption is good
[18:13] <micahg> knome: I meant help filing bugs, not reporting them :P
[18:13] <knome> :P
[18:13] <charlie-tca__> support for natty is #ubuntu+1, issues should be brought up in #xubuntu-devel. We might be able to resolve them before filing the bug.
[18:13] <knome> charlie-tca__, so should we point all users (even when alpha) here rather than #ubuntu+1 with their problems?
[18:14] <charlie-tca__> knome: don't be silly
[18:14] <knome> i am serious
[18:14] <charlie-tca__> so am I
[18:14] <knome> what makes you think i'm joking?
[18:14] <charlie-tca__> obvious you did not read what I said above
[18:14] <charlie-tca__> support for natty is #ubuntu+1, issues should be brought up in #xubuntu-devel. We might be able to resolve them before filing the bug.
[18:15] <charlie-tca__> Where does that say point all natty users here?
[18:15] <knome> charlie-tca__, i did, no reason to repeat; "issues should be brought in #xubuntu-devel"
[18:15] <knome> +up
[18:15] <knome> that says "tell them to come here"
[18:15] <charlie-tca__> Why would you ever decide that? 
[18:16] <knome> you said so
[18:16] <knome> i've been pointing users to #ubuntu+1
[18:16] <knome> if a user has a problem with a xubuntu development release, where should he go?
[18:16] <knome> #ubuntu+1 ?
[18:16] <knome> but tell the issues here?
[18:16] <knome> so both?
[18:17] <knome> or do we only want issues after beta is released?
[18:17]  * micahg thinks the issues charlie-tca__  was referring to were actual bugs, not just how tos
[18:17] <charlie-tca__> All support questions go to #ubuntu+1 for natty. All development issues go here.
[18:18] <knome> is there *support* even in #ubuntu+1 before beta?
[18:18] <charlie-tca__> and you are simply being obstinate again
[18:18] <micahg> s/actual/perceived/
[18:18] <charlie-tca__> There is support in #ubuntu+1 before alpha1 normally
[18:18] <knome> charlie-tca__, i'm not being stubborn, i'm trying to point people to the correct place
[18:18] <charlie-tca__> If 
[18:19] <knome> charlie-tca__, how does a user/helper know when it's a development issue and when not?
[18:19] <charlie-tca__> If we are not to know about issues before beta, why do we ask anyone to file bugs when they discover problems?
[18:19] <charlie-tca__> There is nothing that says you can not install +1 as soon as possible and have problems with it.
[18:20] <knome> of course, but what separates a problem and a development issue?
[18:20] <charlie-tca__> If they come in here, we allow them to tell us the issue. We can then decide, can't we?
[18:20] <knome> okay, so does that mean everybody should be sent here first and not #ubuntu+1 ?
[18:20] <charlie-tca__> no
[18:21]  * micahg feels like he's in a time warp
[18:21]  * knome feels like charlie isn't coherent
[18:21] <Unit193> I think knome is asking at what point do you get sent here?
[18:21] <PsynoKhi0> hmm gonna file a bug for an infinite loop in the xubuntu-devel IRC channel, brb...
[18:21] <PsynoKhi0> ;P
[18:21] <charlie-tca__> It's not really as hard as you make it
[18:22] <knome> Unit193, yes, that, and what kind of issues should be sent here
[18:22] <knome> charlie-tca__, please remember that you are the one that's triaging bugs
[18:22] <charlie-tca__> If the user comes in here and tells us he has a problem with natty, we do not send them away. We ask what is wrong
[18:22] <knome> charlie-tca__, when it's alpha, i might not know *anything* about the dev release bugs
[18:22] <knome> charlie-tca__, you do
[18:22] <charlie-tca__> We might have a fix already, that has not been published yet
[18:22] <knome> that's the difference
[18:22] <knome> charlie-tca__, that's why it's easy for you
[18:23] <charlie-tca__> and that is why *you* do not send the user away from here
[18:23] <knome> i didn't?
[18:23] <knome> i was asking whether i should send the user *TO* here
[18:23] <knome> or #ubuntu+1
[18:23] <knome> but i still don't have an answer
[18:24] <micahg> knome: support #ubuntu+1, perceived bugs here
[18:26] <knome> micahg, in which way perceived? by the dev community or the single supported?
[18:26] <knome> *supported
[18:26] <knome> BAH
[18:26] <knome> supporter
[18:26] <micahg> knome: if the user is about to file a bug, come here first
[18:26] <knome> how many times are they going to file bugs, even with non-development versions, if you don't tell them to? :)
[18:29] <knome> bbl
[18:50] <PsynoKhi0> heh I needed to reboot :P
[18:50] <PsynoKhi0> vbox now works... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand natty beta1 is up yay :D
[18:51] <Unit193> PsynoKhi0: Just be glad it's not like Win updates... "You have just updated your help file, you need to reboot" then tells you every 5min and if you don't click "wait" it's going to reboot FOR you
[18:53] <PsynoKhi0> I mean the vbox kernel driver needed a reboot to get loaded
[18:53] <PsynoKhi0> a modprobe might have worked too but oh well
[18:53] <PsynoKhi0> anyway... still stuck with that tiny icon for the main menu eh?
[18:54] <charlie-tca__> natty?
[18:54] <charlie-tca__> yes
[18:58] <PsynoKhi0> at least something happens when one puts the mouse pointer over it...
[18:58] <charlie-tca__> yup
[18:59] <PsynoKhi0> I'd still go for something similar to Opera 11 and Firefox 4 though
[18:59] <charlie-tca__> We did give you firefox 4
[19:00] <PsynoKhi0> I mean their main menu button
[19:01] <charlie-tca__> Now I am lost
[19:01] <charlie-tca__> They are applications, not desktops
[19:03] <PsynoKhi0> http://www.opera.com/browser/ Opera 11, http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Firefox_4_beta_screenshot.png&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Firefox_4_beta_screenshot.png&usg=__9ruSktmNUHoKAUIGRu4_ZOTLeWs=&h=224&w=457&sz=82&hl=sv&start=21&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=O0Ma-sIwUAayjM:&tbnh=63&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfirefox%2B4%2Bscreenshots%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dsv%
[19:03] <PsynoKhi0> 26client%3Dopera%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dsv%26tbm%3Disch&ei=P1mbTYr7A4jVsgadv7H8BQ Firefox 44
[19:03] <PsynoKhi0> urgh
[19:03] <PsynoKhi0> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Firefox_4_beta_screenshot.png Firefox 4
[19:05] <PsynoKhi0> http://img232.imageshack.us/f/panelit3bigmenubutton14.png/ this was a suggestion
[19:05] <PsynoKhi0> IMo main menu button = largest element on an empty panel
[19:07] <PsynoKhi0> other than that, congrats on the polished desktop
[19:07] <charlie-tca__> for reasons I can't remember but are in the meeting minutes, we can't do it this time
[19:08] <PsynoKhi0> XFCE's limitations?
[19:08] <charlie-tca__> Ubuntu got us, I think
[19:08] <charlie-tca__> Much of what they do affects us
[19:09] <PsynoKhi0> are you referring to the Ubuntu wheel in my proposal?
[19:09] <charlie-tca__> No, the reason we can not grow the button big
[19:09] <PsynoKhi0> if so np, dump it for a downwards pointing arrow or so
[19:09] <PsynoKhi0> oh
[19:09] <PsynoKhi0> man that's weird
[19:10] <PsynoKhi0> for people who slam "user experience" and "usability" left and right...
[19:11] <PsynoKhi0> I mean, the icon for shutting down the computer is LARGE than the one to do most of the useful things with it, for crying out loud...
[19:11] <PsynoKhi0> LARGER*
[19:12] <charlie-tca__> It will be for this release
[19:13] <charlie-tca__> the end of an era:  http://blog.canonical.com/?p=551
[19:13] <charlie-tca__> no more shipit service for Ubuntu CD's
[19:14] <charlie-tca__> hm, I should have said it will not be larger for this natty release. Perhaps a way will be found to grow it for oneiric
[19:15] <PsynoKhi0> ok
[19:15] <PsynoKhi0> is there a preview of the installation slideshow anywhere?
[19:16] <PsynoKhi0> if at least the menu button and the dock make it there...
[19:16] <charlie-tca__> must be one in bazaar, but I don't know the details. It is on the live cd
[19:23] <PsynoKhi0> ./usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow :)
[19:25] <PsynoKhi0> ./usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow/slides/05-desktop.html to be precise... it shows the main menu, the launcher panel, so this is I think really nice
[19:26] <PsynoKhi0> also liking the fact that content is hidden by default when moving windows around, great for not so peppy computers
[19:26] <PsynoKhi0> we have a winner here :)
[19:27] <PsynoKhi0> gigolo installed by default, awesome
[19:32] <PsynoKhi0> hmm is it XFCE's default to have the font that big in the terminal?
[19:32] <charlie-tca__> That big?
[19:32] <charlie-tca__> Is it 10 or 12 pt?
[19:32] <PsynoKhi0> bigger than the rest of the desktop in any case
[19:32] <PsynoKhi0> 12
[19:33] <PsynoKhi0> setting it to 10 makes it more homogenous with the rest though
[19:33] <charlie-tca__> It only appears bigger, normal fonts should be 12 pt, but that might not be droid fonts
[19:33] <charlie-tca__> That should be monospaced, right?
[19:34] <PsynoKhi0> the font yes, the size set to 12 makes it look bigger though
[19:36] <charlie-tca__> mr_pouit: is it possible to change the size of the default terminal font?
[19:36] <PsynoKhi0> I know I'm very picky when it comes to the desktop's overall consistent look :D
[19:39] <PsynoKhi0> I like gigolo, though I suppose having the menu entry decribing what it does rather than what it's called might be better for users who've never used it
[19:40] <charlie-tca__> menu names are fixed, it causes a lot of other issues to change them
[19:40] <PsynoKhi0> ah, shame
[19:41] <PsynoKhi0> shame too that I didn't take the time to have the mouse pointer over the name >.<
[19:46] <Unit193> Quick idiot question: does gigolo do local disks? (don't have two in this box)
[19:46] <charlie-tca__> no, it does network drives, normally windows
[19:47] <PsynoKhi0> hmm I remember local drives not present in fstab appearing  in Gigolo
[19:47] <Unit193> Thanks charlie-tca__, I have used gigolo for SMB...
[19:48] <PsynoKhi0> partitions, more exactly
[19:48] <PsynoKhi0> though I never tried to mount them there
[19:55] <charlie-tca__> I could be wrong, I mount mine through ssh
[20:04] <charlie-tca__> pleia2: the wireframe - compositing bug should be fixed on tomorrows images
[20:04] <pleia2> charlie-tca__: I saw the bug update! yay :) I'll try to find time to test
[20:04] <charlie-tca__> Thanks for doing the testing you did!
[20:32] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca__: yup, it's possible
[20:35] <charlie-tca__> Apparently the 12pt monospace looks big compared to the droid 12pt default now
[20:36] <charlie-tca__> We should look at making it 10pt, maybe, just for the mono font
[20:36] <charlie-tca__> PsynoKhi0: bug report for terminal font, please. It will be wishlist, to change the font size.
[20:39] <charlie-tca__> PsynoKhi0: it will against xfce4-terminal
[20:40] <mr_pouit> no, against xubuntu-default-settings
[20:41] <charlie-tca__> oops
[20:41] <charlie-tca__> PsynoKhi0: it will be against xubuntu-default-settings
[20:41] <mr_pouit> and I think 10pt might be too small
[20:42] <charlie-tca__> I guess I have to do an install and look at it, but droid is smaller than normal, too
[20:42] <charlie-tca__> At least to my eyes
[20:43] <charlie-tca__> I don't think any font on my system is at the defaults, I reset everyone of them.
[20:44] <charlie-tca__> and I change them in each app too, so they stay where I put them
[20:44] <mr_pouit> with the default syntax coloration in the shell, when you do "ls", folders are in blue color, bold font, and I'm not sure it'll be very readable if the font is too small
[20:44] <charlie-tca__> at least a wishlist bug will keep us from forgetting to check it out
[20:45] <mr_pouit> anyway, that will be different for everyone, so it's annoying to have a default setting ;>
[20:45] <charlie-tca__> crap, I must have changed that too, then
[20:45] <charlie-tca__> So, we don't even need the default setting? ;-)
[20:46] <charlie-tca__> oops, I don't think I even look at terminal much, since I install guake on my system
[20:46] <mr_pouit> I think the default default setting is even bigger ;]
[20:47] <charlie-tca__> might be
[21:31] <PsynoKhi0> erm does creating a Launchpad account REALLY requires one's real full name?
[21:32] <charlie-tca__> yes
[21:33] <PsynoKhi0> then sorry
[21:33] <charlie-tca__> Keeps things honest
[21:36] <PsynoKhi0> I understand the reasoning behind it, though unfortunately having my name for all to see on the web gives me the creeps
[21:37] <mr_pouit> I think you can put whatever in it
[21:37] <charlie-tca__> I googled my full name, first, middle, last, and found out there are a half dozen of us in the USA alone.
[21:37] <charlie-tca__> and it is pretty unique
[21:40] <PsynoKhi0> that's why I prefer the brainstorm page to launchpad
[21:50] <Unit193> PsynoKhi0: My first and last name are the only ones in USA, so I just put: firstname and first letter of lastname
[21:51] <charlie-tca__> I have seen some use their email name, too (part before the @)
[22:34] <PsynoKhi0> I'll give it some thought :) bedtime now though, good night!