spivGood morning.00:53
pooliehi spivvo!01:02
poolienice to see pjkeating getting an outing again01:02
pooliejelmer, do you know off hand how many importer branches have succeeded?01:13
wallyworld_poolie: did you know "bzr xmlls" is broken on natty?01:35
pooliethat's from bzr-xmloutput?01:36
pooliei did not01:36
wallyworld_poolie: it's a python 2.7 incompatibility. i'll raise a bug01:37
wallyworld_  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins/xmloutput/xml_errors.py", line 30, in __str__01:38
wallyworld_    _escape_cdata(str(e))01:38
wallyworld_TypeError: _escape_cdata() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)01:38
wallyworld_well i think it's python 2.7 related. haven't really looked into it01:38
wallyworld_it worked fine before i upgraded to natty01:39
jelmerpoolie: Sorry, was afk. I'm not sure how many successful imports we have.01:41
poolienp, i took a reasonable guess01:42
pooliehave a good night01:42
jelmerwallyworld_: I'm pretty sure that's been fixed in trunk, any chance you can give lp:bzr-xmloutput a try?01:42
pooliewallyworld, bug 73288101:42
ubot5Error: Launchpad bug 732881 could not be found01:42
pooliethought it rang a bell01:42
wallyworld_jelmer: sure can. i'm just finishing up something. will do it soon. thanks for letting me know :-)01:42
jelmerpoolie: That's the plan :)01:43
poolie:) cheerio01:43
wallyworld_poolie: jelmer: xmloutput works fine from trunk. thanks!01:52
=== Ursinha-bbl is now known as Ursinha-afk
=== _thumper_ is now known as thumper
spivpoolie: Hey :)02:38
spivpoolie: ah, I guess freenode shenanigans or something kept you from seeing me earlier.02:38
pooliehi there02:39
poolieah i wondered if it was something like that02:39
poolieeither that or you'd abandoned 90s irc technology for tweeting02:39
pooliehow are the failures?02:42
spivThe LP workaround has passed ec2 and so landed on lp:launchpad02:43
poolieok, and i guess will go live on the next downtime rollout?02:44
spivI guess so02:44
spivI assume code changes on codehosting ssh aren't rolled out until there's downtime to restart the service02:46
spivBut because it's really split into the 'listens on ssh port' process and the 'bzr lp-serve' worker processes, in principle improvements to the latter could often be deployed without restarting the former.02:46
poolieok, and so now ... the twisted upstream fix?02:48
spivI guess when the ssh service can be brought down gracefully by being run behind haproxy there won't be as much incentive to try take advantage of that.02:48
spivs/brought down/upgraded/02:48
spivIs still waiting for a hopefully final review.02:48
spivAll the review points so far have been addressed.02:49
pooliei guess i will look into this possible whoami related selftest regression first02:51
pooliesince a lot of other outstanding stuff hangs off that02:51
pooliehow about you?02:52
spivPatch piloting02:52
spivAs opposed to jelmer, who's been patch bombing ;)02:52
pooliehe certainly has02:57
pooliejohn too02:57
pooliegood idea02:57
spivpoolie: hmm, hydrazine is now broken for me on maverick04:11
spivTypeError: login_with() got an unexpected keyword argument 'application_name'04:11
spivI do want to upgrade to natty quite soon, but perhaps not *right now* ;)04:12
pooliei guess it needs some version-conditional code then04:14
pooliecould you have a go at it?04:14
spivI took a quick stab at backing out just that one revision to see the difference and got a surprisingly large conflict, so I just reverted to the version I was using before.04:16
poolieok i'll try when i can get unity going04:16
pooliespiv could you glance at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mbp/bzr/doc/+merge/5587205:20
spivglanced, and approved :)05:26
=== r0bby is now known as robbyoconnor
vilaHeigh Ho, Heigh Ho, hi all !07:33
fullermdOK, you've exhausted your allocated supply of "h"'s for the day...07:35
spivvila: ¡hola!07:35
vilafullermd: I don't tink so07:36
jami vila, ow's it going?08:16
jamfullermd: I tink e stole mine08:16
fullermdjam: Try substituting an aitch.08:17
vilafullermd: fail08:17
fullermdI gotta stick with my strengths...08:17
jamI'm surprised ow readable tings are witout te letter. I say we get rid of it. It clearly is 'arming the language08:18
jamsucks, missed one08:19
* fullermd invokes Mark Twain...08:19
jamfullermd: I do like that quote08:19
fullermd"Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld."08:19
viladunno if it exists for English but I remember a text about mutating French to simplify it08:19
vilafullermd: yeah, like that ;)08:20
jamfullermd: I can probably read 90% of that, enough to understand it.08:20
jamA bit like reading Dutch for me :)08:20
vilathis also reminds me of Perec who managed to write a book without the letter 'e'...08:21
fullermdIf we'd just switch over to Lojban and be done with it..08:21
* spiv h̶mms08:21
vila. o O (Probably never translated ;)08:21
jamvila: hard to write his name, though08:21
vilajam: hehe, good point, I wonder if he used a pseudo :)08:22
fullermdAuthors are best kept out of their work anyway   :p08:22
vilate autor08:23
vilazomg, they *did* translate it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Void08:24
vilaall: poolie said hi !08:26
* fullermd turns up the music and drags himself back to pretending to work.08:28
jamvila: sure, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsby_(novel) was done 30 years earlier08:29
vilafullermd: not so fast ! What about http://pycon.blip.tv/file/4878868/ ? Can FreeBSD do that ?08:30
fullermdShow me a big grey box saying something about a plugin that would crash my browser regularly if it existed?  Looks like...08:30
vila. o O (Totally unrelated but worth trying to distract fullermd )08:30
jamvila: well, he did it on a mac, which is technically just a glorified BSD machine, right?08:30
vilajam: don't spoil it ! ;D08:30
vilajam: what with Gatsby ? (Obviously I don't know)08:31
jamvila: and there is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogram08:31
jamdescribing earlier works as well.08:31
jamvila: Gadsby was the first long text without the letter E08:31
vilahoooo, I didn't know that08:31
vilainteresting... sort of ;) Hackers all over the place ;D08:32
jamvila: "Hamlet without the letter I".08:32
jamTo be or not to be, that's the query08:32
jam(since question has an I)08:32
fullermdEh.  You haven't experienced Shakespeare until you've read it in the original Klingon.08:32
vilawow 'the quick brown fox...' omits S !08:33
vilaspiv: The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog08:35
jamI'm pretty sure the full "quick brown" text has all English letters08:35
vilacould be08:35
jamas it is supposed to be a text for showing typography08:35
fullermdYeah, I gave my mother a copy for Christmas some years back.08:35
vilayup, may be just a variant to explain lipogram08:35
vilaok, back to liprogramming config without the letter 'bug' :D08:36
vilajam: by the way, congrats on your efforts around the sha1s !08:41
jamvila: thanks08:41
jamunfortunately, I still need to track down all the other paths08:42
jamlike merge08:42
jamand revert08:42
jamand ...08:42
vilajam: I'm not surprised :-/08:42
jamI could cheat and recompute the sha1 in create_file, but that would just move the processing time around.08:42
vilajam: feel free to find shortcuts along the way !08:42
jamvila, jelmer, spiv: Are we doing the standup now?09:06
vilajam: I think it was decided to do it tomorrow (as an exception)09:07
jamvila: I think you're right09:08
jamI always have trouble with "you have a meeting" emails09:08
jamfor some reason the *date* of the meeting is never clear to me09:08
vilajam: easy short, I did accept the invitation this night :) You made me doubt about the *week* ;)09:08
jamyeah, it definitely has @ Thu09:09
jamI just need to pay more attention :)09:09
jelmerlooking at the date isn't a guarantee, I've seen a few evolution timezone bugs ;)09:50
=== hunger_ is now known as hunger
fullermdGaah.  And once again, I waste a bunch of time because of bug 315399  :(11:07
ubot5Launchpad bug 315399 in Bazaar "diff gives huge areas of unnecessary changes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31539911:07
=== Fuu` is now known as Fuu
hrwwill there be bzr-fastimport 0.10.0 package for ubuntu natty?11:26
vilafullermd: any chance you can point to a public branch allowing to reproduce (for the record ?)11:28
fullermdNot that I know of.11:38
jelmerhrw: it's not planned; we should be able to get the new snapshot from Debian synced if there's a good reason to11:39
hrwjelmer: trying to get git-bzr-ng working again - it lists 0.10.0 as requirement11:42
jelmerhrw: natty has a 0.9 snapshot IIRC, I think it has the fixes required by git-bzr-ng11:43
hrwjelmer: bzr: ERROR: unknown command "fast-export"11:44
hrwhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/590170/ is whole output11:46
jelmerhrw: does "bzr plugins" list the fastimport plugin?11:47
hrwha! nice catch. http://paste.ubuntu.com/590175/ shows that it is installed but bzr does not know that11:48
=== psynaptic|away is now known as psynaptic
hrwbut why it happened? no idea11:52
vilahrw: python version mismatch ?11:54
hrwvila: fastimport landed in /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/bzrlib/plugins/ when all other plugins are in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins directory11:55
hrwthis is under natty (which was upgraded from maverick in beginning of development cycle)11:56
vilahrw: 'bzr plugins -v' will tell you where plugins have been  found11:56
hrwvila: already used -v to find where normally they reside. only bzr-fastimport got into other place11:57
vilahrw: I'm not *that* familiar with packaging to say what the right directory is, but it's weird that two different ones are used (not counting link farms)11:57
jelmerI bet it's the switch to python-support that's related11:59
hrwjelmer: sure. but why bzr does not check python-support dirs too?12:00
vilahrw: could be a bug in packaging, you're using the daily ppa ? (Obviously no: bzr-fastimport 0.9.0+bzr311~ppa129~natty1  there)... where did your package come from ?12:00
jelmerhrw: bzr simply uses the standard python import mechanism12:01
vilaha, no, you're using stock natty12:01
hrwvila: plain natty package12:01
vilayup, rmadison told me12:02
hrwanyway - symlinked it to ~/.bazaar/plugins/fastimport for now12:02
jelmerhrw: it's definitely some sort of packaging issue, any chance you can file a bug?12:02
vilayou meant s/to/from/ ?12:02
hrwvila: ln -sf /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/bzrlib/plugins/fastimport/ ~/.bazaar/plugins/fastimport/12:03
vilabut yeah, easiest work-around if you don't want to put a branch there12:03
hrwjelmer: sure12:03
jelmervila: what's the problem with try/finally in tests?12:04
* vila nods ln -s will confuse me until my death, there is no way I will get it right now after getting it wrong for the past 30 years12:04
vilajelmer: error-prone, less clear generally12:04
vilajelmer: there are some exceptions but as a rule, avoiding them is generally better12:05
jelmervila: I understand less clear, but in what way is it error-prone?12:05
jelmerI don't have any objection to using self.addCleanup(), just curious.12:05
vilahmm, yeah, what did I mean...12:05
vilayou can define the try/finally scope wrongly12:06
jamjelmer: try/finally also tends to lead to terrible scopes when you have 3-4 of them12:07
vilaor more generally forget it, whereas using addCleanup *unless* you can't wait the end of the test to cleanup is generally safer12:07
jelmerah, fair enough12:07
vilajelmer: so it's kind of error-prone to *not* use addCleanup12:07
vilajelmer: which may be more precise than saying try/finally is error-prone12:08
vilajelmer: yeah, I think that's what I meant :D12:08
vilazomg, when did the ppa pages got the stop signs in 'Latest updates' ?12:09
vilafor ever but I never look at the page while failures where pending ?12:10
spivjelmer: the two basic problems with try-finally vs. addCleanup are12:10
hrwjelmer: bug 75239612:11
ubot5Launchpad bug 752396 in bzr-fastimport (Ubuntu) "bzr-fastimport is not listed in "bzr plugins" list" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75239612:11
spiv1) if the cleanup is distant from the initial action (i.e. many lines away) it's easier for skew between those to be missed, and12:11
jelmerhrw: thanks, marked confirmed12:11
spiv2) an error in a finally block will override a prior error12:12
hrwgit-bzr-ng now works in both directions - finally no need to touch bzr directly ;D12:12
spivSo you can get e.g. TooManyConcurrentRequests or some odd pack exception rather than the actual problem.12:12
spivAnd there's related things like if you have code like "if cond: foo.lock_read()" then you need to say "if cond: foo.unlock()" in your finally, so you're repeating yourself12:14
jelmerspiv: that makes sense, thanks12:14
spivBasically, default to using addCleanup everywhere it's conveniently available… and if it's not conveniently available, consider using it anyway ;)12:14
vilajelmer: and I don't remember a case where migrating from try/finally to addCleanup made the test harder to read or maintain12:15
vilajelmer: but a lot of cases where it fixed some nasty bugs12:15
jelmerjust to be clear, I'm not arguing for try/finally, I was only wondering why addCleanup is better.. I think I know now :)12:16
vilawell, may be no a lot, but some lock checks failures were fixed this way12:16
vilajelmer: I think you got a good summary :)12:17
=== psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|workin
jamvila: some more "Welcome to Europe" things for you.12:28
jam1) The EU "Queen" size is 8cm wider than the US one.12:29
jam(for matresses)12:29
jamso it isn't a trivial "buy a split foundation". We did so, and now it doesn't fit with the frame, etc.12:29
jelmerjam: isn't it supposed to be the other way around?12:29
jelmergenerally stuff is larger in the US :)12:29
jamjelmer: that's what they say :)12:29
jam2) ... dang, I swear I had 212:30
jamjelmer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattress12:30
jamhas a big table of "crazy" sizes12:30
jamapparently UK has yet-another standard set of sizes12:31
jamI believe the phrase is "Standards are great, we should clearly have more of them"12:31
jelmerheh, indeed :)12:31
jamjelmer: apparently the US "King" size is bigger. 193cm vs 180cm.12:31
jelmerjam: At least this is standardised, so many things are still different across EU countries12:32
jamjelmer: of course as mentioned, depends if UK is part of the EU or not :)12:33
jelmerI don't really think they are :)12:34
vilajam: 8=/12:35
vilaYup, I can confirm that, they aren't :D12:35
jamvila, jelmer: And AIUI neither is Switzerland or Czech, or ...12:36
jelmerjam: well, the UK is formally a part of the EU, just not in spirit :)12:37
jelmerjam: Switzerland is a part of some treaties (like Schengen, the customs treaty) but not of the EU12:37
jamjelmer: being able to half-join is like having yet-another-standard12:39
vilajam: oh, no, Switzerland, pfff of course not ;) You know, while the EU is far younger than the US, the family history if far longer and some episodes goes really far into the past ;)12:39
vilajam: can you imagine that the parliament is moved, twice a month, including all admin people and of course all of the paper archives ?12:40
jelmervila: good business for Strasbourg though, no? :)12:42
jamwow, seems crazy12:43
jamor like a rock-and-roll show12:43
spivA parliament with roadies!12:43
jamspiv: just watch out for the groupies12:43
spivjam: ITYM "public servants"12:43
jamspiv: and 'pay-to-play' politics12:44
vilajelmer: that's what they say ;)12:46
=== psynaptic|workin is now known as psynaptic
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
jelmermaxb_: Do you know if there was anything in the newer debhelper that we actually needed?13:49
maxb_jelmer: --buildsystem13:58
=== maxb_ is now known as maxb
maxband override_dh_foo13:58
gypsymauroI'm trying to use the syntax bzr serve --port=localhost:1234 --directory=/srv/bzr/repo14:01
gypsymaurobut when I try to bzr log bzr://localhost:1234/ .. does nothing14:04
gypsymauroany hint?14:04
maxb"does nothing" is not a helpful problem description. It certainly does something - even if that something is "hang" or "exit with no error and no output"14:05
gypsymauroit "hangs"14:06
gypsymauroeven ctrl-c on server doesn't kill it14:07
maxbWhat is your platform? Linux?14:08
maxbIf  you re-run the "bzr log" command adding the "-Derror" option, and Ctrl-C it after a while, what error do you get?14:09
maxbWhilst in the hung situation, can you see any tcp connections using "netstat -tn | grep 1234" ?14:09
gypsymaurotcp        0      0          ESTABLISHED14:10
gypsymaurotcp       85      0         ESTABLISHED14:10
gypsymauroso it seems a connection14:11
gypsymauroafter ctrl-c noone error I waitd 5 mins14:11
maxbPlease check the ~/.bzr.log file for any potentially useful information14:16
gypsymauromaxb: nothing usefull14:23
gypsymauroit's like is bzr serve that freezes14:23
trond- I'm using bazaar for webdevelopment of a service that I14:31
trond-(gr.) starting over14:31
trond-I'm using bzr for webdevelopment, and I have created a solution that is available for a few customers. I have branched those versions. Now, If I change something in one branch, and want this change to be available for the others, how do I do this?14:32
jamtrond-: can you just go to the other branch and "bzr merge" the first one?14:50
maxbIf you have multiple customer specific branches, it can be worth maintaining a central generic branch from you merge changes14:57
=== psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|tea
=== deryck is now known as deryck[lunch]
=== psynaptic|tea is now known as psynaptic
=== r0bby_ is now known as robbyoconnor
jelmermaxb: I'm considering splitting bzrlib.tests into its own (Arch: all) package17:15
jelmermaxb: it's 16Mb (vs 29Mb in all of bzrlib/)17:15
maxbgosh. Quite a saver. Sounds great, though we might need to patch other stuff to fail helpfully, I suppose?17:16
jelmermaxb: yeah17:16
jelmerAFAIK "bzr selftest" is the only thing that really imports from bzrlib.tests17:17
maxbOh, and presumably anything that matters will already have a conditional to react nicely to the absence of python-testtools?17:20
jelmermaxb: presumably, but in practice that isn't actually the case17:20
jelmernothing outside of bzrlib.tests uses testtools though17:20
=== deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck
jelmerone of the nice things of splitting bzrlib.tests out is that it can actually depend on python-testtools properly17:21
maxbPerhaps "No module named testtools" was sufficiently informative to class as "reacting nicely" in my head :-)17:23
jelmerheh, fair enough17:23
maxbOK, so we could either patch cmd_selftest upstream to say something like "The testsuite is not part of this bzr installation", or we could patch it in the packaging branch to suggest 'apt-get install python-bzrlib-tests' similar to what the debian mercurial package does for this sort of thing17:25
jelmermaxb: sounds reasonable to me18:04
mrnukeI'd like to know how to merge two bzr branches, and keep the commit history from both branches20:41
mrnukeif I just bzr merge /path/to/other/bbranch, it discards the commit history from the other branch20:42
luks_it doesn't discard anything20:43
mrnukeso after bzr merge, I can simply bzr commit without fear?20:44
luks_but I think that bzr log doesn't display it by default (wow, it's been a long time since I used log)20:44
luks_you can use bzr log -n020:44
luks_or better, bzr qlog20:44
mrnukeoh, thanks :)20:48
mrnukeI was afraid to commit fearing the history would be lost20:48
trond-jam, ref my question and your reply - go to other branch and bzr merge. Do you mean go to the main code and merge, or to the branch and merge?21:58
trond-maxb, I agree. (central generic branch)21:58
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
mwhudsonhuh, this isn't how i expected bzr-hg to choke on pypy: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/68480618/mwhudson-pypy-hg-trunk.log22:19
mwhudson(for the click-shy it's "IOError: [Errno None] connection ended unexpectedly")22:19
mwhudsonjelmer: hi :-)22:19
jelmerhey Michael :)22:20
jelmermwhudson: I guess we wait too long reading all of the data and meanwhile the connection times out22:21
mwhudsonyeah, i guess so22:21
mwhudsonbitbucket have a really crappy router doing nat? :)22:22
jelmermwhudson: we're too slow parsing hg data?22:24
mwhudsoni guess that's a more realistic explanation yes22:25
jelmermwhudson: can you file a bug? I don't think we have that one yet22:31
mwhudsonjelmer: ok22:33

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