[00:53] Good morning. [01:02] hi spivvo! [01:02] nice to see pjkeating getting an outing again [01:13] jelmer, do you know off hand how many importer branches have succeeded? [01:35] poolie: did you know "bzr xmlls" is broken on natty? [01:36] that's from bzr-xmloutput? [01:36] i did not [01:37] poolie: it's a python 2.7 incompatibility. i'll raise a bug [01:38] File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins/xmloutput/xml_errors.py", line 30, in __str__ [01:38] _escape_cdata(str(e)) [01:38] TypeError: _escape_cdata() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given) [01:38] well i think it's python 2.7 related. haven't really looked into it [01:39] it worked fine before i upgraded to natty [01:41] poolie: Sorry, was afk. I'm not sure how many successful imports we have. [01:42] np, i took a reasonable guess [01:42] have a good night [01:42] wallyworld_: I'm pretty sure that's been fixed in trunk, any chance you can give lp:bzr-xmloutput a try? [01:42] wallyworld, bug 732881 [01:42] Error: Launchpad bug 732881 could not be found [01:42] thought it rang a bell [01:42] jelmer: sure can. i'm just finishing up something. will do it soon. thanks for letting me know :-) [01:43] poolie: That's the plan :) [01:43] ttyl [01:43] :) cheerio [01:52] poolie: jelmer: xmloutput works fine from trunk. thanks! === Ursinha-bbl is now known as Ursinha-afk === _thumper_ is now known as thumper [02:38] poolie: Hey :) [02:38] poolie: ah, I guess freenode shenanigans or something kept you from seeing me earlier. [02:39] hi there [02:39] ah i wondered if it was something like that [02:39] either that or you'd abandoned 90s irc technology for tweeting [02:39] Hah. [02:42] how are the failures? [02:43] The LP workaround has passed ec2 and so landed on lp:launchpad [02:44] ok, and i guess will go live on the next downtime rollout? [02:44] I guess so [02:45] Hmm [02:46] I assume code changes on codehosting ssh aren't rolled out until there's downtime to restart the service [02:46] But because it's really split into the 'listens on ssh port' process and the 'bzr lp-serve' worker processes, in principle improvements to the latter could often be deployed without restarting the former. [02:47] yeah [02:48] ok, and so now ... the twisted upstream fix? [02:48] I guess when the ssh service can be brought down gracefully by being run behind haproxy there won't be as much incentive to try take advantage of that. [02:48] s/brought down/upgraded/ [02:48] Is still waiting for a hopefully final review. [02:49] All the review points so far have been addressed. [02:49] great [02:51] i guess i will look into this possible whoami related selftest regression first [02:51] since a lot of other outstanding stuff hangs off that [02:52] how about you? [02:52] Patch piloting [02:52] As opposed to jelmer, who's been patch bombing ;) [02:57] :) [02:57] he certainly has [02:57] john too [02:57] good idea [04:11] poolie: hmm, hydrazine is now broken for me on maverick [04:11] TypeError: login_with() got an unexpected keyword argument 'application_name' [04:12] I do want to upgrade to natty quite soon, but perhaps not *right now* ;) [04:13] :/ [04:14] i guess it needs some version-conditional code then [04:14] could you have a go at it? [04:16] I took a quick stab at backing out just that one revision to see the difference and got a surprisingly large conflict, so I just reverted to the version I was using before. [04:16] ok i'll try when i can get unity going [05:20] spiv could you glance at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mbp/bzr/doc/+merge/55872 [05:26] glanced, and approved :) [05:26] thakns === r0bby is now known as robbyoconnor [07:33] Heigh Ho, Heigh Ho, hi all ! [07:35] OK, you've exhausted your allocated supply of "h"'s for the day... [07:35] vila: ¡hola! [07:36] fullermd: I don't tink so [08:16] i vila, ow's it going? [08:16] fullermd: I tink e stole mine [08:16] hehe [08:17] jam: Try substituting an aitch. [08:17] fullermd: fail [08:17] I gotta stick with my strengths... [08:18] I'm surprised ow readable tings are witout te letter. I say we get rid of it. It clearly is 'arming the language [08:19] sucks, missed one [08:19] * fullermd invokes Mark Twain... [08:19] fullermd: I do like that quote [08:19] "Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld." [08:19] dunno if it exists for English but I remember a text about mutating French to simplify it [08:20] fullermd: yeah, like that ;) [08:20] fullermd: I can probably read 90% of that, enough to understand it. [08:20] A bit like reading Dutch for me :) [08:21] this also reminds me of Perec who managed to write a book without the letter 'e'... [08:21] If we'd just switch over to Lojban and be done with it.. [08:21] * spiv h̶mms [08:21] . o O (Probably never translated ;) [08:21] vila: hard to write his name, though [08:22] jam: hehe, good point, I wonder if he used a pseudo :) [08:22] Authors are best kept out of their work anyway :p [08:23] te autor [08:24] zomg, they *did* translate it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Void [08:26] all: poolie said hi ! [08:28] * fullermd turns up the music and drags himself back to pretending to work. [08:29] vila: sure, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsby_(novel) was done 30 years earlier [08:30] fullermd: not so fast ! What about http://pycon.blip.tv/file/4878868/ ? Can FreeBSD do that ? [08:30] Show me a big grey box saying something about a plugin that would crash my browser regularly if it existed? Looks like... [08:30] . o O (Totally unrelated but worth trying to distract fullermd ) [08:30] vila: well, he did it on a mac, which is technically just a glorified BSD machine, right? [08:30] jam: don't spoil it ! ;D [08:31] jam: what with Gatsby ? (Obviously I don't know) [08:31] vila: and there is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogram [08:31] describing earlier works as well. [08:31] vila: Gadsby was the first long text without the letter E [08:31] hoooo, I didn't know that [08:32] interesting... sort of ;) Hackers all over the place ;D [08:32] vila: "Hamlet without the letter I". [08:32] To be or not to be, that's the query [08:32] (since question has an I) [08:32] Eh. You haven't experienced Shakespeare until you've read it in the original Klingon. [08:33] wow 'the quick brown fox...' omits S ! [08:34] jumps? [08:34] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Klingon_Hamlet [08:35] spiv: The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog [08:35] I'm pretty sure the full "quick brown" text has all English letters [08:35] could be [08:35] as it is supposed to be a text for showing typography [08:35] Yeah, I gave my mother a copy for Christmas some years back. [08:35] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_quick_brown_fox_jumps_over_the_lazy_dog [08:35] yup, may be just a variant to explain lipogram [08:36] ok, back to liprogramming config without the letter 'bug' :D [08:41] jam: by the way, congrats on your efforts around the sha1s ! [08:41] vila: thanks [08:42] unfortunately, I still need to track down all the other paths [08:42] like merge [08:42] and revert [08:42] and ... [08:42] jam: I'm not surprised :-/ [08:42] I could cheat and recompute the sha1 in create_file, but that would just move the processing time around. [08:42] jam: feel free to find shortcuts along the way ! [09:06] vila, jelmer, spiv: Are we doing the standup now? [09:07] jam: I think it was decided to do it tomorrow (as an exception) [09:08] vila: I think you're right [09:08] I always have trouble with "you have a meeting" emails [09:08] for some reason the *date* of the meeting is never clear to me [09:08] jam: easy short, I did accept the invitation this night :) You made me doubt about the *week* ;) [09:09] s/short/shot/ [09:09] yeah, it definitely has @ Thu [09:09] I just need to pay more attention :) [09:50] looking at the date isn't a guarantee, I've seen a few evolution timezone bugs ;) === hunger_ is now known as hunger [11:07] Gaah. And once again, I waste a bunch of time because of bug 315399 :( [11:07] Launchpad bug 315399 in Bazaar "diff gives huge areas of unnecessary changes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/315399 === Fuu` is now known as Fuu [11:24] hi [11:26] will there be bzr-fastimport 0.10.0 package for ubuntu natty? [11:28] fullermd: any chance you can point to a public branch allowing to reproduce (for the record ?) [11:38] Not that I know of. [11:39] hrw: it's not planned; we should be able to get the new snapshot from Debian synced if there's a good reason to [11:42] jelmer: trying to get git-bzr-ng working again - it lists 0.10.0 as requirement [11:43] hrw: natty has a 0.9 snapshot IIRC, I think it has the fixes required by git-bzr-ng [11:44] jelmer: bzr: ERROR: unknown command "fast-export" [11:46] http://paste.ubuntu.com/590170/ is whole output [11:47] hrw: does "bzr plugins" list the fastimport plugin? [11:48] ha! nice catch. http://paste.ubuntu.com/590175/ shows that it is installed but bzr does not know that === psynaptic|away is now known as psynaptic [11:52] but why it happened? no idea [11:54] hrw: python version mismatch ? [11:55] vila: fastimport landed in /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/bzrlib/plugins/ when all other plugins are in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins directory [11:56] this is under natty (which was upgraded from maverick in beginning of development cycle) [11:56] hrw: 'bzr plugins -v' will tell you where plugins have been found [11:57] vila: already used -v to find where normally they reside. only bzr-fastimport got into other place [11:57] hrw: I'm not *that* familiar with packaging to say what the right directory is, but it's weird that two different ones are used (not counting link farms) [11:59] I bet it's the switch to python-support that's related [12:00] jelmer: sure. but why bzr does not check python-support dirs too? [12:00] hrw: could be a bug in packaging, you're using the daily ppa ? (Obviously no: bzr-fastimport 0.9.0+bzr311~ppa129~natty1 there)... where did your package come from ? [12:01] hrw: bzr simply uses the standard python import mechanism [12:01] ha, no, you're using stock natty [12:01] vila: plain natty package [12:02] yup, rmadison told me [12:02] anyway - symlinked it to ~/.bazaar/plugins/fastimport for now [12:02] hrw: it's definitely some sort of packaging issue, any chance you can file a bug? [12:02] you meant s/to/from/ ? [12:03] vila: ln -sf /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/bzrlib/plugins/fastimport/ ~/.bazaar/plugins/fastimport/ [12:03] but yeah, easiest work-around if you don't want to put a branch there [12:03] jelmer: sure [12:04] vila: what's the problem with try/finally in tests? [12:04] * vila nods ln -s will confuse me until my death, there is no way I will get it right now after getting it wrong for the past 30 years [12:04] jelmer: error-prone, less clear generally [12:05] jelmer: there are some exceptions but as a rule, avoiding them is generally better [12:05] vila: I understand less clear, but in what way is it error-prone? [12:05] I don't have any objection to using self.addCleanup(), just curious. [12:05] hmm, yeah, what did I mean... [12:06] you can define the try/finally scope wrongly [12:07] jelmer: try/finally also tends to lead to terrible scopes when you have 3-4 of them [12:07] or more generally forget it, whereas using addCleanup *unless* you can't wait the end of the test to cleanup is generally safer [12:07] ah, fair enough [12:07] jelmer: so it's kind of error-prone to *not* use addCleanup [12:08] jelmer: which may be more precise than saying try/finally is error-prone [12:08] jelmer: yeah, I think that's what I meant :D [12:09] zomg, when did the ppa pages got the stop signs in 'Latest updates' ? [12:10] for ever but I never look at the page while failures where pending ? [12:10] jelmer: the two basic problems with try-finally vs. addCleanup are [12:11] jelmer: bug 752396 [12:11] Launchpad bug 752396 in bzr-fastimport (Ubuntu) "bzr-fastimport is not listed in "bzr plugins" list" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752396 [12:11] 1) if the cleanup is distant from the initial action (i.e. many lines away) it's easier for skew between those to be missed, and [12:11] hrw: thanks, marked confirmed [12:12] 2) an error in a finally block will override a prior error [12:12] git-bzr-ng now works in both directions - finally no need to touch bzr directly ;D [12:12] So you can get e.g. TooManyConcurrentRequests or some odd pack exception rather than the actual problem. [12:14] And there's related things like if you have code like "if cond: foo.lock_read()" then you need to say "if cond: foo.unlock()" in your finally, so you're repeating yourself [12:14] spiv: that makes sense, thanks [12:14] Basically, default to using addCleanup everywhere it's conveniently available… and if it's not conveniently available, consider using it anyway ;) [12:15] jelmer: and I don't remember a case where migrating from try/finally to addCleanup made the test harder to read or maintain [12:15] jelmer: but a lot of cases where it fixed some nasty bugs [12:16] just to be clear, I'm not arguing for try/finally, I was only wondering why addCleanup is better.. I think I know now :) [12:16] well, may be no a lot, but some lock checks failures were fixed this way [12:17] jelmer: I think you got a good summary :) === psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|workin [12:28] vila: some more "Welcome to Europe" things for you. [12:29] 1) The EU "Queen" size is 8cm wider than the US one. [12:29] (for matresses) [12:29] so it isn't a trivial "buy a split foundation". We did so, and now it doesn't fit with the frame, etc. [12:29] jam: isn't it supposed to be the other way around? [12:29] generally stuff is larger in the US :) [12:29] jelmer: that's what they say :) [12:30] 2) ... dang, I swear I had 2 [12:30] jelmer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattress [12:30] has a big table of "crazy" sizes [12:31] apparently UK has yet-another standard set of sizes [12:31] I believe the phrase is "Standards are great, we should clearly have more of them" [12:31] heh, indeed :) [12:31] jelmer: apparently the US "King" size is bigger. 193cm vs 180cm. [12:32] jam: At least this is standardised, so many things are still different across EU countries [12:33] jelmer: of course as mentioned, depends if UK is part of the EU or not :) [12:33] jam: [12:34] I don't really think they are :) [12:35] jam: 8=/ [12:35] Yup, I can confirm that, they aren't :D [12:36] vila, jelmer: And AIUI neither is Switzerland or Czech, or ... [12:37] jam: well, the UK is formally a part of the EU, just not in spirit :) [12:37] jam: Switzerland is a part of some treaties (like Schengen, the customs treaty) but not of the EU [12:39] jelmer: being able to half-join is like having yet-another-standard [12:39] jam: oh, no, Switzerland, pfff of course not ;) You know, while the EU is far younger than the US, the family history if far longer and some episodes goes really far into the past ;) [12:40] jam: can you imagine that the parliament is moved, twice a month, including all admin people and of course all of the paper archives ? [12:42] vila: good business for Strasbourg though, no? :) [12:43] wow, seems crazy [12:43] or like a rock-and-roll show [12:43] A parliament with roadies! [12:43] spiv: just watch out for the groupies [12:43] jam: ITYM "public servants" [12:43] :) [12:44] spiv: and 'pay-to-play' politics [12:46] jelmer: that's what they say ;) === psynaptic|workin is now known as psynaptic === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha [13:49] maxb_: Do you know if there was anything in the newer debhelper that we actually needed? [13:51] nevermind [13:58] jelmer: --buildsystem === maxb_ is now known as maxb [13:58] and override_dh_foo [14:00] hi [14:00] hello [14:01] I'm trying to use the syntax bzr serve --port=localhost:1234 --directory=/srv/bzr/repo [14:04] but when I try to bzr log bzr://localhost:1234/ .. does nothing [14:04] any hint? [14:05] "does nothing" is not a helpful problem description. It certainly does something - even if that something is "hang" or "exit with no error and no output" [14:06] it "hangs" [14:07] even ctrl-c on server doesn't kill it [14:08] What is your platform? Linux? [14:09] yes [14:09] If you re-run the "bzr log" command adding the "-Derror" option, and Ctrl-C it after a while, what error do you get? [14:09] Whilst in the hung situation, can you see any tcp connections using "netstat -tn | grep 1234" ? [14:10] tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:41908 127.0.0.1:1234 ESTABLISHED [14:10] tcp 85 0 127.0.0.1:1234 127.0.0.1:41908 ESTABLISHED [14:11] so it seems a connection [14:11] after ctrl-c noone error I waitd 5 mins [14:16] Please check the ~/.bzr.log file for any potentially useful information [14:23] maxb: nothing usefull [14:23] it's like is bzr serve that freezes [14:31] I'm using bazaar for webdevelopment of a service that I [14:31] (gr.) starting over [14:32] I'm using bzr for webdevelopment, and I have created a solution that is available for a few customers. I have branched those versions. Now, If I change something in one branch, and want this change to be available for the others, how do I do this? [14:50] trond-: can you just go to the other branch and "bzr merge" the first one? [14:57] If you have multiple customer specific branches, it can be worth maintaining a central generic branch from you merge changes === psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|tea === deryck is now known as deryck[lunch] === psynaptic|tea is now known as psynaptic === r0bby_ is now known as robbyoconnor [17:15] maxb: I'm considering splitting bzrlib.tests into its own (Arch: all) package [17:15] maxb: it's 16Mb (vs 29Mb in all of bzrlib/) [17:16] gosh. Quite a saver. Sounds great, though we might need to patch other stuff to fail helpfully, I suppose? [17:16] maxb: yeah [17:17] AFAIK "bzr selftest" is the only thing that really imports from bzrlib.tests [17:20] Oh, and presumably anything that matters will already have a conditional to react nicely to the absence of python-testtools? [17:20] maxb: presumably, but in practice that isn't actually the case [17:20] nothing outside of bzrlib.tests uses testtools though === deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck [17:21] Oh [17:21] one of the nice things of splitting bzrlib.tests out is that it can actually depend on python-testtools properly [17:23] Perhaps "No module named testtools" was sufficiently informative to class as "reacting nicely" in my head :-) [17:23] heh, fair enough [17:25] OK, so we could either patch cmd_selftest upstream to say something like "The testsuite is not part of this bzr installation", or we could patch it in the packaging branch to suggest 'apt-get install python-bzrlib-tests' similar to what the debian mercurial package does for this sort of thing [18:04] maxb: sounds reasonable to me [20:40] hi [20:41] I'd like to know how to merge two bzr branches, and keep the commit history from both branches [20:42] if I just bzr merge /path/to/other/bbranch, it discards the commit history from the other branch [20:43] it doesn't discard anything [20:44] so after bzr merge, I can simply bzr commit without fear? [20:44] but I think that bzr log doesn't display it by default (wow, it's been a long time since I used log) [20:44] you can use bzr log -n0 [20:44] or better, bzr qlog [20:44] yes [20:48] oh, thanks :) [20:48] I was afraid to commit fearing the history would be lost [21:58] jam, ref my question and your reply - go to other branch and bzr merge. Do you mean go to the main code and merge, or to the branch and merge? [21:58] maxb, I agree. (central generic branch) === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk [22:19] huh, this isn't how i expected bzr-hg to choke on pypy: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/68480618/mwhudson-pypy-hg-trunk.log [22:19] (for the click-shy it's "IOError: [Errno None] connection ended unexpectedly") [22:19] jelmer: hi :-) [22:20] hey Michael :) [22:21] mwhudson: I guess we wait too long reading all of the data and meanwhile the connection times out [22:21] yeah, i guess so [22:22] bitbucket have a really crappy router doing nat? :) [22:24] mwhudson: we're too slow parsing hg data? [22:25] i guess that's a more realistic explanation yes [22:31] mwhudson: can you file a bug? I don't think we have that one yet [22:33] jelmer: ok