=== UndiFineD is now known as UndiFineD_
=== UndiFineD_ is now known as UndiFineD
PendulumTheMuso: So you were the only person who wanted 2200 UTC. I set the meeting at 2100 UTC, but IIRC you didn't have many (if any) items on the community blueprint02:44
Pendulumand I can hold your items to the end of stuff so that you don't have to get up so early :)02:45
TheMusoPendulum: Ok thanks, I'll do my best to attend at that time anyway.03:08
TheMusoSorry, almost lost your message in the flood of disconnects I've been having. :)03:09
=== API is now known as Guest90552
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* AlanBell tries to kick off a discussion of bug 751891 in #ayatana19:31
UndiFineDAlanBell, got a link ?19:37
AlanBellmore to the point, where is the bot?19:38
UndiFineDAlanBell, did you make that in some html ?19:46
AlanBellno, it is onboard19:46
AlanBellit reads some svg to get keycap positions and sizes and colours19:47
AlanBellsome python code changes to set fonts and other bits like the rounded corners19:47
AlanBellit looks like this at the moment if you just run onboard: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/oldonboard.png19:48
charlie-tcaAnd we still can't even get a menu entry for it19:48
charlie-tcasince everybody knowws those who need a software keyboard can just type in terminal to start it, right?19:50
AlanBellhmm, well you can do it with just the mouse, but you have to set it to launch on login and then log out to get it to run20:00
AlanBelland type your password of course as that doesn't get it to run in gdm20:00
UndiFineDyeah that would be great to have it available at least at login20:03
charlie-tcaAnd that and the ability to type in terminal is why they refuse to put it in menu at all20:03
AlanBellarguably onboard should not need a menu option, but should just run if you don't have a keyboard plugged in20:28
AlanBellbut it doesn't do that as far as I know20:28
PendulumAlanBell: what about laptop users20:28
AlanBelltrue, I was mostly thinking about touch screens and tablet devices20:31
charlie-tcaI keep of thinking of those disabled that can not type20:32
AlanBellyes, but using what kind of pointing device?20:39
charlie-tcastraw, hitting one key at time?20:40
Pendulumor switch users20:40
UndiFineDthere are laptops with touchscreens20:40
charlie-tcaMany U.S. Veterans have to use trackballs, since they can spin the ball with the entire palm, when the fingers don't work20:41
UndiFineDindeed, trackballs are very usable too20:41
UndiFineDand i suppose .. joysticks20:42
charlie-tcaEven seen some that use trackballs with the back of their hand, since it is fixed in position and won't move20:42
charlie-tcajoysticks are harder to use without fingers that work20:42
UndiFineDI even have a new sidewinder in a box20:43
charlie-tcatape all the fingers and thumb together with a splint or brace and try to use it20:43
AlanBellwhilst I do think it should be in the menu I still think it would be nicer if it just launched when you have no keyboard plugged in20:45
charlie-tcaYou might have two people using the computer, one fully abled and one disabled. 20:46
charlie-tcaAlthough, yes, I agree. It would be really nice to have it launch when there is no hardware keyboard20:47
PendulumAlanBell: I think both solutions would be good20:47
charlie-tcabut what would that do to headless servers and stuff?20:47
macocharlie-tca: no X anyway...20:47
charlie-tcaoh! Then it would be great120:48
charlie-tcaoh! Then it would be great, even!20:48
AlanBellyeah, on screen keyboard on a headless server is an interesting concept!20:48
charlie-tcaGot to ask... :-)20:49
leoquantit makes me very frustrated and angry that most of all inovations comes from th spinoff from the war industry. pilots do use their voice and eyeball tracking to get their machines from te ground20:52
leoquantand we disabled are waiting for solutions.....20:53
charlie-tcaWar is one of those things that get almost unlimited funding for research20:53
leoquant;o0 9 o;20:54
* leoquant slashes his keyboard20:54
macocharlie-tca: sad as it is20:54
macothe US Congress is currently having a fight over the budget, which if they dont resolve this week, will result in a government shutdown20:55
macothey keep talking about needing to cut spending...yet war spending seems to be untouchable :(20:55
leoquanti am off, too angry to think20:56
charlie-tcaYup, that is the way it works. I am interested in this shutdown. Most things are completely unaffected by government spending shutdown20:56
charlie-tcathose missiles used by the US in Libya cost 1.5 million dollars each, and will probably have to replaced :-(20:58
maconecessary services keep running, such as emergency, police, and postal20:58
itsthelatteAnyone attending the CSUN conference right now?21:00
charlie-tcaThey are not part of the federal government budget, though21:03
PendulumI wish :(21:03
macocharlie-tca: capitol police are21:03
charlie-tcapost office is now 100% funded by profits, police are mostly state and local, emergency are about the same21:03
charlie-tcaheh, I guess I don't count them21:04
macothe national park service would close down21:04
macono more tours of the Washington Monument21:04
macoright as Tourist Season is kicking in21:04
macocharlie-tca: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/06/2153836/who-stays-on-job-in-federal-government.html21:09
charlie-tcaNote most of congress and most of their aides get to keep working21:25
macowell how else would they fix the lack of budget?21:27
macowe'd be belgium!21:27
charlie-tcaDo they really need the aides? Can't the congressmen themselves do something?21:28
macothe staffers do most of the drafting. the congress critters review it and then present it21:29
JanCmaco: we don't have a lack of budget  ;)21:29
macoin the case of the one "necessary" personnel i know in a congressional office, that person makes sure email (and networking stuff in general) works so constituents can complain to the congress critter about their budget :P21:30
macoJanC: was referring to the lack of government21:30
macoor did you get one now?21:30
JanCwe don't have a lack of government either21:30
JanCthe old one is not allowed to go away until we have a new one, so...21:30
macoahh, so thats what the "interim" refers to 21:31
charlie-tcaThe United States is 6 months into the fiscal year without a new budget. 21:31
macothe zombie government ;-)21:31
macoeep http://www.presstv.ir/detail/173460.html21:32
IdleOnecharlie-tca: no need for a budget if you have limitless credit21:32
maco(what came up as breaking news when i googled belgium government)21:32
charlie-tcaheh, true. 21:32
JanClegally the interim government has the same powers as any other government...21:33
charlie-tcaMaybe we could loan them some, and help them out :-)21:34
JanCthe issue is more that they don't really have a majority in parliament & senate anymore, so any decision that goes against the majority there risks getting overturned21:34
IdleOnecharlie-tca: who is this "we" and why are they loaning out my money?21:35
IdleOnenot that I have any21:35
IdleOnebut if I did I would want to know21:35
charlie-tcaThe U.S. Government, and it is not "your" money, since they have none anyway21:35
macoand since IdleOne isn't a USian21:36
charlie-tcaThe U.S. government is trillions in debt, a few million would not matter, would it?21:36
IdleOneprobably won't make a difference no21:36
IdleOneI do have USian childrens21:37
charlie-tcaThe President wants to cut something like 6 billion this year, which won't even dent the national debt21:37
IdleOneas long as he cuts in the right places, you know, eduction and health care.21:38
IdleOneoh and adds to national defense21:38
IdleOnethis seems really offtopic for this channel though :)21:39
JanC*national* defense?21:39
PendulumIdleOne: well, healthcare isn't really offtopic :P21:39
IdleOneyes de fence that the nationals protect21:39
IdleOnePendulum: ahh good so I'll keep babbling about things I know nothing about :)21:40
macoyou may like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbWDEEytCmQ21:40
charlie-tcaThat would be the fence on the US / Mexico border?21:40
maco(more off topic politics stuff)21:40
* Pendulum refuses to get into political debates today because she already feels sick :P21:40
IdleOnecharlie-tca: the ones all the illegal mexicans are going to build21:41
charlie-tcaThe US built it already, they just have to go around it21:41
macocharlie-tca: or over21:41
IdleOnewould have been cheaper to have the illegals build it.21:41
JanCor under21:41
IdleOneand probably better built21:41
JanCthere is always the sea, I guess, a bit difficult to put a fence there?21:43
AlanBellok, it is 21:00 UTC by my calculations22:00
AlanBellPendulum: want me to chair still?22:00
PendulumAlanBell: nope, I can do it22:01
Pendulum(sorry lost track of time22:01
Pendulumokay, meeting time!22:01
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Apr  6 21:01:28 2011 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.22:01
meetingologyUseful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.22:01
Pendulumso who's here for the meeting?22:01
TheMusoHey folks.22:01
IdleOnepresent but not sure I can offer anything.22:02
itsthelatteHey there22:02
Pendulumyeah, this is mostly a follow-up meeting so I'm hoping won't be too long :)22:02
paul_hI'm listening in :)22:02
* Pendulum pokes Cheri703 in case she has anything to add to the meeting :P22:03
Cheri703I'm present22:03
Cheri703am on the phone :)22:04
Pendulumokay, so the purpose of this meeting is to go over what's been done on our blueprint and have a sense of what else we think we can fit in this cycle and what needs to get posponed22:04
Cheri703not anymore :)22:04
Pendulum#topic Natty Blueprint22:04
meetingologyTOPIC: Natty Blueprint22:04
Pendulum#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-improving-accessibility-devel-and-info22:05
Pendulumby the way, I apologize as I meant to clean up and see if there were things that could get changed in status earlier today, but I ended up spending most of my afternoon sick22:05
TheMusoThats ok, better that you get well.22:06
Pendulumso I'm behind on a bunch of my things. I did start to talk to the doc team so I'm going to move that to done22:08
AlanBellI am behind on the personas, but I do have another one to publish tonight hopefully22:09
Pendulumalso, TheMuso and charlie-tca, would it be fair for me to move most Unity testing things to postponed due to the fact that Natty is no longer our target for Unity?22:09
TheMusoYes I think so.22:10
PendulumAlanBell: did we move from trying to get all the personas rough drafts done to working on getting final versions of each before moving on to the next?22:11
AlanBellwell the rough drafts are done, or at least the thinking about each of the characters22:12
AlanBellI know who they all are, what their principal impairments are and we did the survey to get bits to put into the storys22:13
AlanBellFaisal is published22:13
* Pendulum changes 'rough drafts' to done :)22:13
AlanBellDaniela is a draft on wordpress22:13
PendulumTheMuso: you've reported back pretty much all of the a11y that we know is working, right?22:14
TheMusoPendulum: Yeah I'm pretty sure I have, because there is not a lot. The launcher minus quicklists, and the top panel, and some indicators identify themselves properly.22:15
Pendulumokay, I'm updating the blueprint22:16
TheMusook thanks22:16
PendulumI think the outstanding items that don't need to be postponed or aren't already in progress are with people who aren't here22:16
Pendulumor are me22:17
Pendulum(people can feel free to kick me about stuff I haven't done, don't worry) :P22:17
Pendulumif you guys want to refresh and let me know if that looks accurate?22:17
TheMusoLooks good to me.22:19
Pendulumdoes anyone else have anything to add?22:20
Pendulum(seriously, that's all I had for the meeting)22:20
TheMusoWell, short and sweet is good.22:21
TheMusoAllows me to get some breakfast and ptter around until its time for work. :)22:21
Pendulumanyone else?22:21
PendulumI guess not22:21
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Apr  6 21:22:00 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)22:22
meetingologyMinutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2011/ubuntu-accessibility.2011-04-06-21.01.moin.txt22:22
AlanBellI would like some people to have a look at the daniela blog post in a sec22:22
PendulumAlanBell: yep :)22:22
AlanBellhttp://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/?p=65&preview=true does that ask you for a password?22:26
Pendulumgives a page not found22:26
AlanBellok, I will have to publish it properly then22:26
AlanBellany comments would be great, especially if it is stuff I can fix before the planet picks it up22:27
TheMusoDamnit this stupid unity window decorator has some BAAAAAAAD focus issues.22:28
PendulumAlanBell: missing end of sentence under Life Goals22:31
AlanBellso it is22:31
AlanBellwonder how I was going to continue that bit22:32
JanCTheMuso: the window *decorator* ?22:33
TheMusoJanC: Not sure to be honest, it could just be compiz's window management...22:33
IdleOneAlanBell: ....ability to use her laptop to gain more independence22:34
JanCI have an issue with almost all windows ending up in the top left corner of the screen currently... under the launcher & the top panel  :-/22:34
IdleOneI am guessing is where you were headed there22:35
JanCall new windows22:35
JanCand trying to find what compiz plugin might be misconfigured or this is just a bug22:35
PendulumAlanBell: probably better for 'ability to use her laptop to find new places to explore'22:35
charlie-tcaSorry, had to put a gate back up and get snowed on again22:36
AlanBellI put something about alarms, but I will add that too22:36
charlie-tcaI read the log, and I think you got it covered, though22:37
TheMusoJanC: fun22:37
macoAlanBell: on the video of the screen-reader install, you say "custom_partitions, thats not too insane" around 6:30 or 6:40 into it... would it be possible to redub it to not use "insane" that way?22:39
AlanBelloh :(22:41
AlanBellprobably not22:41
AlanBellor I don't know how22:42
AlanBellbut I will redo the whole thing again at some point close to release or with the final release22:42
charlie-tcaI will write the new test case before monday. Next week we are testing Beta2, so we have to try again. :-)22:44
macoew, this video is just...22:45
macoTheMuso: i'm sorry :(22:45
TheMusoheh thats ok.22:45
AlanBellmaco: why don't you do the next version of it!22:45
charlie-tcaheh, progress22:46
macoAlanBell: im not ewing at you doing it, i'm ewing at the wtfness of the results!22:46
macoi do want to try a kubuntu install this way though22:46
maconow that qt4-at-spi has now gotten into natty22:46
charlie-tcamaco: considering what he tried to do, it worked pretty good22:46
AlanBelloh, I understood that :)22:46
AlanBellyes, it would be great to do a kubuntu one22:47
macocharlie-tca: the screenreader worked fine, the stupid labeling on the buttons, though!22:47
macoand pages22:47
* maco headdeks22:47
charlie-tcaand shortcut keys and ...22:47
charlie-tcaand the thing doesn't work right out of the box, really22:47
charlie-tcaAlthough, we got a better screen-reader install than we had in 10.10p22:48
macoAlanBell: haha "i do have a pound key, good thing i can see it" ... and if it said "do you have a pound key?" all us americans would go "wait does it mean # or £???"22:48
AlanBellas I understand it #="Pound" has almost no basis at all22:49
charlie-tcaIt's the abreviation we use in America for weight = pound22:51
charlie-tcaalthough I have no idea how it gets to be that.22:51
* TheMuso sighs. Some of the comments to that Ars article are really disappointing to read.22:53
macowhats going on is its reading all the id="" on the stuff. id="" is used by the programmers to refer to the widgets so they can modify them programmatically (for example making a textbox uneditable if a checkbox is unchecked)22:58
macoTheMuso: do you know what program is used to make the .ui files in ubiquity? ive only seen .ui for qt, but this is clearly gtk22:58
macoand for gtk i just knew glade, but that makes .glade files22:58
AlanBellI think it is glade22:59
maco(by the way, is this reading as "dot you eye" and "dot glade" or just "ewwee" and "glade"? and 22:59
macoerm, ignore that last "and"22:59
AlanBelldot you eye and dot glade23:02
AlanBellif anyone is going to UDS and is interested in the invisible dinner thing it would be great if you could leave a comment on the blog23:03
Pendulumcharlie-tca: are you going to UDS?23:04
* Pendulum is not23:04
TheMusomaco: Something to do with glade/gtkbuilder.23:06
charlie-tcaI did not get the message yet23:06
TheMusoAlanBell: Thanks for the heads up, must do that.23:07
charlie-tcabut I think so23:07
macook. i'll look at a11y patches for the installer23:07
* AlanBell hugs maco 23:07
TheMusomaco: Bearing in mind that I think a lot of the problems are webkit related...23:16
macoTheMuso: yeah i know, but at least the gtk widgets could be sensibly labeled!23:16
TheMusoThis is true.23:16
macoa lot of the things AlanBell ran into were the id="" being read because no accessible_name="" was given23:16
TheMusoGoes to show just how much I test the installer. :)23:17
TheMusoIf ubiquity supported LVM, then things would be different.23:17
* TheMuso uses LVM on all systems.23:17
* charlie-tca doesn't use LVM at all23:17
TheMusoI use LVM because the software I use for building packages in chroots works best with LVM snapshots.23:20
TheMusoAnd it allows me to easily resize filesystems without having to possibly break partitioning./23:21
macoAlanBell: want to update that post's bug list? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/74965323:21
macothat one i can fix at least. as i dig in, i'll see which others i can get through tonight23:22
JanCTheMuso: btrfs should help solving that too23:23
AlanBellI think I will remove [Undecided,New] from all of them23:23
TheMusomaco: Ping me when done, as I have commit privs, and can look them over.23:24
macoTheMuso: ok23:24
TheMusoJanC: Yes but sbuild already works with lvm snapshots, which is good enough.23:24
macoTheMuso: you have commit privs for ubiquity?23:24
macoor referring to the package since you're a core dev?23:24
TheMusomaco: Commit privs for ubiquity, I am on the installer team for slving just such accessibility issues./23:25
TheMusoI need to use ubiquity more, but lack of LVM makes that difficult.23:25
macoah ok23:25
* maco raises an eyebrow at these .ui files23:25
macoi think the reason titles never get read is that it's a frame23:25
macothe stuff inside the frame is read, but not what's around it23:25
JanCTheMuso: but btrfs is more likely to be supported in Ubiquity23:26
macobecause those titles? they're not in these .ui files23:26
macoi probably can't tonight sort out how to make it inform the reader to pipe up when new text appears (such as "passwords don't match!") but small improvements...23:26
TheMusoJanC: Yeah I know, but there is still the aprtitions/filesystem resizing issue.23:27
valoriehttp://mdzlog.alcor.net/2011/02/07/a-diversity-statement-for-ubuntu/ <--- one fabulous comment at the end by a Debian user23:45

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