rick_h__lol, wonder what haskell thing he was trying01:09
rick_h__nvm, xmonad window manager probably01:10
snap-ljcastro: I did a user study. :)02:06
snap-lUploading it02:06
rick_h__man, you got snap-l motivated02:07
jcastroI used his hatred of me to do user testing02:07
jcastrosee what I did there?02:07
snap-lIt's not hatred of you.02:08
snap-lIt's hatred of not having nice things. :)02:08
jcastroI have been watching a bunch of arnold movies lately02:10
jcastroand I now realize where I get my vocabulary from02:10
snap-lGET TO THE CHOPPA02:10
snap-lwait wait wait wait02:30
snap-lhttp://ubuntuone.com/p/l6O/ <- When it finally uploads. :)02:43
snap-ljcastro: It finished02:52
jcastrosnap-l: can you send me an email with this? something I can fwd on?02:54
jcastro(sorry in the middle of testing stuff and my desktop is crashing)02:54
snap-lSend that link on. I'll keep it on there full-cycle02:54
jjessesnap-l how slow download on that link03:02
snap-ljjesse: You'll want to save it first03:03
snap-land that's Ubuntu One. ;)03:03
_stink__snap-l: i only saw like the first 20 seconds of that video... and i was hoping hoping hoping that she would chuck something at the screen after seeing her initial reaction03:06
snap-lJonathanD: Mail sent03:10
snap-ler, jcastro, mail sent.03:10
rick_h__geeze, how big is this thing snap-l ?03:26
rick_h__I thought I wsa downloading slow and moved to wget, but getting 1M+03:27
jjesseyeaht it is taking forver03:27
rick_h__crap, saved as index.html03:27
snap-lI could try moving it to dropbox03:27
rick_h__what's the file supposed to be?03:27
snap-lIt's a video of JoDee using Natty for the first time03:28
rick_h__yea, I got that based off her tweet03:28
rick_h__now I must see03:28
Blazeix_I like that the second thing she looked for was a terminal. And the third was emacs.03:29
Blazeix_though I think Unity probably wasn't quite as user-friendly since the virtualbox window didn't capture the mouse.03:29
snap-lYeah, just a hair03:32
rick_h__lol, "love ya jorge, later"03:36
=== greg_g is now known as greg-g
* greg-g waves from Denver03:59
snap-lgreg-g: Hello Denver03:59
snap-lsay hi to Gilligan for us03:59
snap-lBob Denver03:59
=== ebarch_ is now known as ebarch
brouschsomeone needs to bring me some coffee13:01
wolfgersomeone needs to inject the coffee I have intrvenously.13:02
wolfgerwalk around with one of those hospital hat-racks and a caffeine drip straight to my arm13:03
brouschmake it so. sell it on thinkgeek13:04
wolfgerLook for it next April ;-)13:04
wolfgerSo is Penguicon even happening this year?13:05
tjagodaI sure hope so13:06
wolfgerIt's like 22 or 23 days away, and I haven't seen a schedule yet13:06
tjagodaIt's been tweeted13:06
tjagodaIts not my fault you fail to follow the proper media channels =P13:06
wolfgerwell there's your problem. Twitter is dead13:06
tjagodaThat not my problem13:06
tjagodanot incharge of schedule13:06
tjagodain charge*13:06
wolfgerwhat happened to the annual penguicon-general mailing list post calling for proofreaders?13:07
tjagodaThey're behind the gun13:07
tjagodaThe tech guy didn't do much13:07
tjagodaand then the DIY guy got overwhelmed13:07
tjagodaso they're scrambling in please-dont-suck mode atm13:08
tjagodawhile you whine about a finished schedule13:09
tjagodasomebody's probably trying to make sure any tech programming /exists/ =p13:09
brouschi should have seen a spam announcement about penguicon on all of my email lists 45 days before the event. i think i saw one thing from tjagoda13:10
tjagodaDon't worry13:11
tjagodaI run next year13:11
tjagodaLinux shall rule the convention13:11
brouschmy theory is that it got too scary and weird so now you're stuck with scary weirdos organizing the thing13:11
tjagodajust had leadership this year13:12
tjagodapeople got lazy13:12
tjagodaUnless I'm a scary weirdo13:13
tjagodain which case you must be right13:13
wolfgertjagoda == !scary && weird13:15
rick_h__so he's weird then13:15
tjagodaI haven't yet been able to master both simultaneously13:16
* wolfger suspect brousch scares easy, though13:16
tjagodaWe'll have to find some furries or something =P13:17
wolfgerhttp://penguicon.org/events.php hurts my brain13:19
wolfgerthis is really awful web design for a theoretically tech-oriented con13:19
tjagodaI KNOW13:20
tjagodaMy web guy wants to switch to wordpress13:20
tjagodaversus the custom ugly CMS we use now13:21
wolfgerand what is with the "timeslot" column?13:21
tjagodaI dont know13:21
wolfger"06 9PM"... Is that supposed to be 6-9 PM? Or 9PM lasting for 06 hours? Or wtf?13:22
tjagoda"Most anticipated games is 07 10PM"13:22
tjagodai dont think it is either 7 hours long nor more than one hour13:22
wolfgerWould be nice if the schedule was time-ordered and not title-ordered13:23
wolfgerbecause, you know, it's a SCHEDULE!13:23
tjagodaAs long as the book works13:27
tjagodaI dont care13:27
tjagodaAs i transfer files out of my old work laptop into my new one13:30
tjagodathe old harddisk sounds very thrashey13:30
tjagodaIt was a good time to upgrade13:30
wolfgerHere's one for brousch: "Anthropomorphic Fandom Discussion"13:36
snap-lI saw the call for proofreading call13:37
snap-lthough I don't recall which list it was on13:37
wolfgerI saw a website proofreading call.13:39
wolfgerwhich is what made me think "hmm, shouldn't we have proofread a schedule by now?"13:39
brouschomg. a company gave us a login to their ftp server so we could download drawings from them. apparently they gave us full rights. we can delete things and upload things13:41
wolfgerit's nice to be trusted?13:42
tjagodaor to work with stupid companies13:43
brouschthey also use some freeware spam system that adds an ad to the bottom of all of their emails13:45
snap-ljcastro: Did you watch that video?13:46
snap-lI must have my user testing acknowledged, or I'll whine on the blogosphere that Canonical doesn't care about my needs.13:48
snap-ltjagoda: I did a video showing JoDee's first exposure to Natty13:55
rick_h__snap-l: lol, that was a bit loaded user testing13:55
snap-land unity13:55
snap-lrick_h__: It was a little bit, but I wanted to make a point13:56
snap-lI'm not saying it's scientific13:56
snap-lIt's not like I pulled some schmoo off the street and handed them a computer13:56
snap-land it's also not JoDee's machine13:57
snap-lshe doesn't use lister for her day-to-day, so yes, it was a little stilted13:57
snap-lAlthough JoDee did pretty much do what she does first on a new computer: bring up NOAA and make it the homepage.13:58
rick_h__yea, was funny that part was just FF413:58
jcastrowatching it now13:58
jcastrooh boo snap-l you should have at least fullscreened it13:59
rick_h__but there was some poking and prodding at wanting to configure13:59
snap-ljcastro: Yeah, I suck13:59
rick_h__we need to send snap-l to user testing school. Then he can run clinics here in MI14:00
rick_h__guess I'd better ping that testing lady for the interview14:00
rick_h__ugh, reason #154 why I never visit the forums any more14:02
jcastroyeah tell me about it14:02
tjagodaI love how geeks tear everything to shreds and debate on tiny bits and irrelevant pieces14:03
snap-ltjagoda: Yeah, it keeps the real work from happening. :)14:03
snap-lWhat's to say that askubuntu.com won't suffer the same fate of outdated info?14:04
rick_h__http://jmtd.net/log/aero/ I give it 5 years and everyone will be tiling :)14:05
wolfgerForum poll voted on and responded to :-)14:05
jcastrosnap-l: you can always update any part of it14:07
jcastroI can never go update your "guide to emacs" on a forum14:07
snap-lwolfger: Always ready to put the fire out with gasoline, aren't you.14:07
snap-ljcastro: Well, you can post something about 80 pages into my "guide to emacs" forum post that says that the original post is going to cause your computer to go purple.14:08
jcastroor if it's wrong I can fix it, or vote to bury it14:09
snap-lbut yeah, at least on ask ubuntu, you can score it lower14:09
jcastroit works very well on SO, and they're like 50 times bigger than us14:09
snap-lJust as long as all of the hints for getting games in wine running is preserved, I'm happy.14:10
jcastroI would love it if the forums just moved the howtos and stuff over14:10
jcastroand left the forums for people to do forums-type things14:10
snap-lThe forums took over the less formal piece of launchpad14:11
jcastrobut it's ok, if that guy thinks that keeping his old out of date information as an "archive" is good for the internet then I hope he stays there.14:11
jcastropeople don't realize how poisonous outdated information14:11
jcastro(sorry forgot the is)14:11
jcastroit's because of that crap in the forums that we have like that guy using fwcutter or whatever stupid thing he was doing on sunday14:11
snap-lIt would be better if someone kept updating it14:11
snap-lI've done a few searches on things that have shown up: first thing you do for 8.0414:12
snap-land my heart sinks a bit14:12
jcastrowhen instead what we should be doing is finding every instance of ndiswrapper docs and nuking it from space14:12
snap-ljcastro: And beligerant that his process had to change.14:12
jcastrohis way was harder!14:12
jcastroI mean, plug in an ethernet cable!14:13
snap-lNo shit14:13
wolfgersnap-l: yes sir!14:13
snap-land he mounted his old 8.04 instance and copied over the firmware14:13
jcastrothe other guy had a hard time believing me too, but when he saw it working I could see the learning in his eyes14:13
snap-land got it working!14:13
snap-lto which I said "then quitcherbitching"14:13
jcastroI wouldn't say working14:13
jcastroit's a workaround14:13
jcastronow he has some old ass firmware on his machine14:13
jcastrowho knows what bugs ...14:13
snap-lWell, Ubuntu sucks anyway. ;)14:14
jcastrobuy another mac!14:14
snap-lI'm moving to slackware, where they appreciate my 100 line script to set up a network connection14:14
snap-lit only requires 40 tweaks to get it working in the coffeeshop14:14
wolfgerforum archives are an invaluable resource. Not everybody is using the latest-n-greatest, and also we can learn from the past.14:16
snap-lMy favorite was that the development packages weren't in the software store.14:16
snap-lwolfger: They need to be moved to another source14:17
wolfgerThe problem here is, you have some people wanting to hide the archives from view to protect stupid people from hurting themselves.14:17
wolfgerMove to another source, fine14:17
wolfgeras long as Google can still find it14:17
snap-lI agree that the information might be usefu, but a forum posting is not terribly useful to deploy that info14:17
wolfgerI don't care where on the net the info is located, as long as it's there14:18
snap-land you can get a caveat on the main page of "hey, times changed, and if you do this on > xx.xx, then you'll bust your machine14:18
wolfgerand 9 times out of 10, Google gives me an  Ubuntu forums archive answer14:18
snap-lIf the forums want toorganize a "best of the forums" move, then I'd love to see them do that.14:19
wolfgerthe time and energy to do that could be so much better spent14:19
tjagodaI would quietly auto-nuke any old forum postings without telling the community14:20
snap-lcould be, yes... should be? not sure.14:20
tjagodaI get so pissed when I google for ubuntu help and I find results from 200514:20
tjagodaor 200614:20
snap-ltjagoda: Glad you brought the flint for wolfger's gasoline.14:21
tjagodaIts like a tradition14:21
brouschdangit, this is still broken in natty https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/49609314:22
wolfgerI would quietly nuke tjagoda without telling anybody14:25
tjagodaIt clearly says "fix released"14:39
tjagodaFoolish you14:39
tjagodaexpecting it to be in the OS14:39
brouschit lies14:40
ColonelPanic001I gave up ever expecting the p-con site to be updated before the event starts14:42
ColonelPanic001I just show up and hope it has something other than furries and random things I don't care about14:42
ColonelPanic001Also gave up telling people to go to Penguicon, because I can never tell them wtf will be there14:43
brouschthat implies that you care about furries14:43
tjagodaColonelPanic001: I WILL FIX YOU14:43
_stink__good catch14:43
ColonelPanic001brousch: I DO WHAT I WANT14:43
wolfgerColonelPanic001: I always tell people to go to Penguicon *because* you never know wtf will be there!14:43
brouschnot that there's anything wrong with that14:44
ColonelPanic001it's a little surreal to talk to someone about ham radio for 10 minutes, and have him just casually mention going to furry conventions, as though it's the most natural thing in the world14:44
wolfgerit is14:44
wolfgerisn't it?14:44
ColonelPanic001I personally don't *mind* furries, but it's still unusual to hear about so casually14:44
ColonelPanic001in any case, yeah.14:45
brouschi suspect a large overlap among furries and ham operators14:45
ColonelPanic001a weekend and a trip is too much go say "meh, we'll see if it was worth it when I get there"14:45
ColonelPanic001I mean, I'm going this year, but I wouldn't tell someone else to go without actually being able to tell them wtf is there14:45
snap-lColonelPanic001: Penguicon is what you make of it14:45
brouschi imagine most ham operators wear their furry garb while hamming14:45
snap-lif you are waiting to be disappointed, you will be disappointed14:46
ColonelPanic001especially after last year. First things on the schedule for a "sf and open source" con? New-agey chakra aura bullshit.14:46
ColonelPanic001snap-l: I loved Penguicon. I would love nothing more than to have it be awesome again. I still really like it.14:47
wolfgerColonelPanic001: There was chakra aura stuff? I must have overlooked that while I was busy doing cool stuff.14:48
ColonelPanic001wolfger: I didn't go either. I was trying to find the cool stuff in advance14:48
ColonelPanic001a week in advance.14:48
wolfgerYeah... I can remember the good old days when I actually planned out Penguicon weeks in advance....14:49
wolfgerNow I'm scratching my head with no idea what's going on.14:49
wolfgerI want whoever used to be in charge of the scheduling to be in charge of it every year14:50
brouschtjagoda will fix it all next year14:50
wolfgertjagoda: make it so14:50
ColonelPanic001I don't *mind* aura woo-woo stuff being at the con - I love the variety. I want the focus to be on science, science fiction, and FOSS stuff, that's all. it's become a mash of all things strange or odd. I love the strangeness and oddness, I just want it to regain focus14:51
snap-lColonelPanic001: ++14:51
ColonelPanic001I emailed last *June* to do a talk about ham radio. We first heard back in october with nothing really, then just a month or two ago14:51
wolfgerbut I have no doubt that I will still have fun, and I will still have several instances of omgwtfbbq how can I choose one of these 4 or 5 cool things to attend at 3PM?14:51
ColonelPanic001wtf do they do at those "meetings"?14:51
ColonelPanic001or on the mailing list?14:51
ColonelPanic001I don't have time to do it now, that's why I emailed nearly a year ago14:51
wolfgeron the "regain focus"14:52
snap-lI couldn't even tell you who is a GOH outside of Brian Sanderson14:52
ColonelPanic001I don't mean to bitch, I still love penguicon. But, that's why it gets to me a bit. Penguicon is f'ing awesome. I want it to stay that way.14:52
* ColonelPanic001 puts away his soapbox.14:53
snap-lI don't think there was anyone who was proactive in the tech piece this year.14:53
snap-lAnd whomever did it underestimated the contributions of the loco / user groups14:54
jrwrenis there any way to tell google reader to NOT automatically expire old unread posts?14:55
ColonelPanic001I've never used it, sorry14:55
snap-ljrwren: I didn't know it did that?14:55
snap-lYou sure it's not the feed itself?14:55
jrwreni can't use it ot track what I haven't read yet, because if too much time goes by things just drop off of the "unread" list into the Old list.14:55
jrwreni'm 100% positive. things worked great in bloglines.14:56
snap-lWhich feeds are you noticing this in?14:56
jrwreni have over 1000 subscriptions.14:56
ColonelPanic001jrwren reads too much.14:57
jrwrene.g. lococast, I've never read or listened too, but reader only says I have 10 unread.14:57
ColonelPanic001that's just Google Reader screaming in agony.14:57
jrwrenyeah, i can't believe people embraced this POS when bloglines was out there.14:57
jrwrenits just proof that google is just liek apple, people go ga-ga over their shit and ignore peoples other superior products.14:58
jrwrenits just like the "i want an iphone" skit "it grands you 3 wishes... i don't care."14:58
ColonelPanic001I generally avoid google stuff when it's not the clear superior. I like their email service, but I use netvibes for RSS14:59
ColonelPanic001Piwik insead of google analytics14:59
jrwrenpiwik eh? I should try them.15:00
jrwrenis that a service or a run yourself?15:00
jrwrenI should run awstats against my site too, but I don't.15:00
ColonelPanic001I'm not a power user, but it works well enough for me15:00
ColonelPanic001piwik is, yeah. JUst a PHP webapp you install15:01
ColonelPanic001I liked the fact that it's self-hosted. Scary to think how many sites you go to that call Google.15:01
ColonelPanic001that was my main reason.15:01
jrwreni'm going to play with it. thanks for that tip.15:01
ColonelPanic001np, good luck15:01
ColonelPanic001It's not as pretty as GA, not as featureful, but I just was looking for some basic traffic analytics15:02
ColonelPanic001and something not google15:02
brouschjrwren: piwik is a one click install at dreamhost. maybe at bluehost too?15:02
ColonelPanic001didn't know that, awesome15:02
jrwrenhttp://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/magazine/gg983490%28en-us%29.aspx   "As a longtime Python programmer..."15:03
jrwrenbrousch: i'll check, sounds awesome.15:03
brouschColonelPanic001: came in about 2 or 3 months ago15:03
jrwrenColonelPanic001: the screenshots from the piwik website had it looking nicer than GA15:03
ColonelPanic001jrwren: might be updated since I last did it, then15:04
ColonelPanic001then again too, I haven't used GA in ages15:04
snap-ljrwren: Yeah, you do need to clean out Google Reader every now and again15:04
jrwreni need ot clean it out? why?15:04
snap-lWe used piwik at sf.net. It's... different.15:04
snap-ljrwren: read the articles?15:05
snap-lOtherwise it's essentially dead to you anyway?15:05
snap-lpick out the ones you want to read, and star them15:05
snap-land dump the rest.15:05
jrwrenriht, but i want to be able to read stuff from 6mo ago that i never read.15:06
jrwrenthat scenario is unsupported :(15:06
jrwrenthus google reader doesn't support the way I read15:06
jrwrenand so I hate it.15:06
snap-ljrwren: Then use a different reader15:06
jrwreni shall.15:06
jrwrenits just a pain, because I migrted from bloglines15:07
snap-lpersonally I would freak out if I had 1000+ unread items15:07
jrwrennow I have to move back.15:07
jrwreni've had 3000+ unread items.15:07
jrwrenits no big deal.15:07
jrwrenread the good stuff.15:07
tjagodaI'm trying to get Shuttleworth as a Tech GoH for 201215:07
jrwrenskim the uninteresting.15:07
snap-lHow do you pick out the good stuff from 3000+ items?15:07
tjagodaI feel ColonelPanic's pain15:07
jrwrenthe non ubuntu folks will cry imba15:07
jrwrensnap-l: skim it all, read was looks good :)15:08
snap-lWhy not do that more regularly?15:08
snap-linstead of 6mos ago?15:08
tjagodaI dont care15:09
tjagodaIf they cry I get publicity15:09
brouschsnap-l should qualify as goh. he has 2 successful podcasts15:11
snap-lI have the draw of a demagnetized refrigerator magnet15:12
snap-lThough it would be great for the "who?" factor15:13
ColonelPanic001brousch: ++15:16
ColonelPanic001tjagoda: you have to try and get Wil Wheaton. He doesn't have to come, we just have to keep the tradition15:17
ColonelPanic001In fact, somehow, it might be bad if he did come.15:17
ColonelPanic001"I'm sorry sir, you weren't supposed to actually make it here. You'll have to leave. We have years of tradition to protect"15:17
tjagodaIIS just started refusing all connections15:25
* tjagoda goes periscope down15:25
ColonelPanic001I don't see the down side.15:25
wolfgerjrwren: anything older than 30 days is marked read in G-Reader, and I don't know any way to change or disable that.15:28
wolfgerBut you can still view the older stuff15:29
wolfgerit's just less convenient15:29
wolfgerso your RSS pron collection is not lost :-)15:30
wolfgersnap-l: I struggle to stay below 1000+ unread15:31
snap-lI get rid of things like Boing Boing and Lifehacker15:31
jjesseand planet.ubuntu.com :015:31
snap-lthey're just too much to read, and I'll find out about the cool shit somehow15:31
snap-lI'm still subscribed to the planets, but if they explode, I'll just mark them as read.15:32
wolfgerwhen I get 1000+ I go to the big feeds like BoingBoing, Slashdot, and Ars Technica and just read the first page of headlines, read whatever catches my eye, then Mark All As Read15:33
wolfgerand that will usually bring me to the 800-999 range15:33
wolfgerand I resubbed Planet Ubuntu a while back, so that's killing my count too15:33
wolfgerthe important things are my webcomics. I have to read them all, and I have to make sure they don't go over 30 days.15:34
wolfgerwhich I don't always succeed at15:34
rick_h__lol, rss reading is a fine art15:39
ColonelPanic001you all read far too much rss15:41
rick_h__it's how I know what the next wave of crap I'm supposed to learn is :)15:41
snap-lIt's how I know what the next wave of crap rick_h__ will be going gaga over is.15:43
rick_h__crap, I was at the coffeeshop and couldn't connect to work15:43
rick_h__so thought they had wifi issues, go home and find out it must be work issues15:43
ColonelPanic001oh no.15:48
wolfgerrick_h__ is a Gaga fan? I'd never have thought it. :-)15:48
ColonelPanic001I live less then a mile, probably, frmo Modern Exchange15:48
ColonelPanic001maybe a mile15:48
wolfgerColonelPanic001: evacuate while you can15:49
ColonelPanic001it must be nuked from orbit15:49
snap-lCreating a new ubuntu key on a 4GB USB stick15:54
snap-lhave to say, this is pretty straightforward now. :)15:55
snap-lusb stick15:56
snap-lcreating a new portable system15:56
snap-lmy netbook is a little unusable at the moment15:56
snap-lI think the latest upgrades made things unstable15:57
snap-lKeep having gnome-settings-daemon lock up15:57
snap-land once I kill it, all hell breaks loose15:57
snap-lI should set up a fund for getting a new laptop. ;)15:57
Blazeix_are you using the usb-creator-gtk program? That's pretty slick15:57
snap-lNot the new one. I'm using the old one in 10.0415:58
snap-lActually, it's the same thing. ;)15:58
snap-lYEah, I really like it15:58
rick_h__yay, time to open a 1.3gb file in vim16:00
snap-lI'm sure it'll be flawless.16:01
rick_h__heh, well there went one cpu core for a while16:05
Blazeix_you should use a proper editor. Like excel.16:06
snap-lWhat happened to mp3 support out of the box on the live CD?16:08
snap-ltried playing some mp3 files, and it didn't work.16:08
snap-l(over a DAAP share, mind you, but still...)16:09
snap-lANd neither of the Google Chrome / GOogle Chromium launchers appear to work properly.16:14
rick_h__it hates you16:15
rick_h__you made it angry by 'user testing' against it16:15
snap-lI'd expect chrome to not work 100%, but Chromium? I thought there might be a little more love. ;)16:16
Blazeix_if username == "snap-l": False, True = True, False16:16
brouschsnap-l: chrome was really slow for me in unity16:17
rick_h__vim.tiny replace up to 16min now16:18
brouschlike 2 minutes to start slow16:18
rick_h__guess I do need a faster machine16:18
snap-lBlazeix_: More than likely16:18
snap-lbrousch: I think it's the memory16:18
brouschbut it ran chrome fine before16:19
brouschand 2GB should be enough for anyone16:19
snap-lNice, and Banshee doesn't play any music from the U1 music store. :16:21
snap-lspoke too soon16:21
snap-lNeeded a restart of Banshee to make it work16:22
snap-lproblem is it doesn't support flac out of the box.16:24
snap-lwtf is wrong with DAAP and flac?16:26
snap-lRhythmbox handles it fine. I think it's a MIME Mismatch16:30
rick_h__ 4370 77.1 78.9 6350900 6307836 pts/3 R+   11:00  39:21 vim.tiny16:51
jrwrenwhy is only powerpc available ehre? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/16:54
wolfgerI love it. Full Circle Magazine has an article on ebook reader software for Linux, and at the end it says "Next month: How to obtain ebooks legitimately for your ebook reader."16:55
rick_h__jrwren: the other builds failed?16:55
wolfgerSo we've all got a whole month to pirate ebooks for our new toys before we get told how to jump through hoops to do it the legal way. :-)16:55
jrwrenwell that stinks :)16:56
snap-lwolfger: Nope, we're all reading O'Reilly books and Baen17:01
snap-lMilitary sci-fi and the tools to make it happen17:01
snap-lwhat could be more fun than that?17:01
wolfgerwell... nothing ebook related, that's for sure17:26
wolfgerCharlie Sheen trademark blitz: 'Besides "Duh, Winning," Sheen has also registered such gems as "Vatican Assassin,” “Tiger Blood,” “Rock Star From Mars,” and “I’m Not Bi-Polar, I’m Bi-Winning,” [and 17 others] reports Entertainment Weekly.'17:31
snap-lWhen your schtick is bein Charlie Sheen, I guess that's just good thinking17:34
wolfgeryeah, I really can't argue with it17:37
wolfgerThough I think maybe I should have patented the business model17:44
snap-ltoo much prior art17:44
wolfgersince when does the patent office actually care about that?17:45
snap-lCheck out the price on this chair initially.18:04
snap-lY'know, I wish more people would use Lulu instead of scribd for their PDF files18:06
snap-lAt least on lulu, free / download immediately means just that18:06
wolfgerI should quit this job and make tacky furniture to sell at Meijer instead...18:14
snap-lNo kidding18:14
snap-lApparently it's a killing18:14
wolfgerMS Outlook is absolute rubbish. Why can't we just use Gmail for our corporate mail?18:19
jrwrensome corporations do use google apps for domains.18:26
jrwrenthat sucks too.18:26
jrwrengoogle seems to give lower priority to those pay for clients than they do gmail, and the sharing model sucks, and the limitations suck.18:26
jrwrenif your exchange server supports imap you can point gmail to it and use gmail instead of outlook18:27
wolfgerYou can use Gmail to retreive e-mail from another account?18:29
jrwrenclick settings.18:33
jrwrenaccounts and imports.18:34
jrwrenoh, looks like it is pop3 only.18:34
jrwrenbut still.. many exchange servers are pop3 servers.18:34
* greg-g waves from Wikimedia's offices18:35
rick_h__greg-g: woot!18:36
rick_h__we'll be having a drink in your honor/hope at CHC tonight18:36
jrwrenhi greg-g18:36
rick_h__tell them you've got lots of experience as the bookie relations manager18:36
jrwrenwhere are their offices?18:36
greg-grick_h__: hah!18:51
greg-gjrwren: downtown SF, New Montgomery and Mission, kinda18:52
brouschgo greg-g!18:52
brouschwoohoo! i can tile like rick_h__ without the ugly window manager! http://onethingwell.org/post/4393060064/azulejo18:59
wolfgerBah! There's no Spiral of Doom there.19:01
jrwrenrick_h__: be glad your mysql isn't written like this: http://paste2.org/p/134810519:06
jrwrenand then called with a paramter based API and those out params.19:06
rick_h__really? whole SP just to md5 hash a password?19:07
rick_h__oh, they also check email exists, ugh19:07
brouschjrwren: have you used monodroid?19:20
brouschOh come on. No Linux version? "Mono for Android can be used from either Visual Studio Professional 2010 for Windows users, or using MonoDevelop on the Mac and Windows"19:21
ColonelPanic001snap-l: ++19:42
ColonelPanic001personally I was hoping for the world war result19:43
ColonelPanic001it could be called "The Gay War"19:43
brouschThe Blueballs and the Gay19:44
jrwrenbrousch: i used an early beta.19:45
jrwrenbrousch: droid dev SUCKS because the google tools suck. monodroid only makes it a little bit better.19:45
jrwrenno linux version because google doesn't make a linux version of the droid dev tools.19:46
brouschandroid sdk?19:47
brouschit is on linux19:48
jrwrenwell hell if i know :)19:48
_stink__greg-g: good luck!19:48
jrwrenlinux devs don't pay for software.19:48
jrwrenare you going to pay $400 for it?19:49
brouschsheat. no way19:49
jrwrenand 99.99% of linux devs are going to say that and talk smack about it and talk smack about mono because of that $400. :)19:50
snap-lDepends on if it's something that I need that can't be replicated elsewhere.19:50
snap-l$400 between me getting where I need to go quickly vs cobbling my own environment is a bit tempting19:50
snap-lassuming that the environment doesn't impede my progress while getting me there.19:50
brouschi would consider it if i thought i could recoup it selling my app19:51
brouschbut that's a big investment to make fart apps and hello world19:51
brouschesp when there's o many free ones out there19:51
brouschi am pro-mono, but this makes me want to mail then a flaming bag of turds19:52
tjagodaCome be a Blackberry dev! ;D19:52
tjagodaYou only have to get a notary to prove your real19:53
brouschcan you dev on linux?19:53
jrwrenthat attitude disgusts me.19:53
jrwrensomeone wants to get paid for their hard work and you want to mail them a flaming bag of turds. you should be ashamed.19:54
snap-lRight... spread the wealth and send jrwren a blaming bag of turds19:54
tjagodabrousch: You can blackberry dev anywhere you can run netbeans19:55
tjagodaand eclipse19:55
tjagodaThere are bb dev plugins for eclipse19:55
snap-ltjagoda: Do you have to buy your own bag of bamboo splinters to put under your fingernails, or are they included in the tarball?19:56
tjagodaYou don't use bamboo19:56
tjagodaYou use the protective glass from thousands of defunct nokias19:56
brouschjrwren: i just think its crappy for something mono-based to no work on linux19:57
jrwrenwhy do you think it is crappY?19:57
rick_h__come on, quit trolling jrwren19:57
tjagodaHe just said why it was crappyu19:57
jrwrenmonotouch is the same way is is almost 2 yrs old.  monomac is the same.19:57
snap-lI took a quick peek at BB development. I think unless you have LLC after your name, they don't take you  seriously.19:57
rick_h__clear it blows chunks when you give something a home, watch it grow up, and then leave the house19:57
jrwrenStarcraft2 doesn't work on linux.19:58
tjagodasnap-l: Wouldn't you need that to legally sell apps anyway?19:58
rick_h__there we go, let's pull the completely unrelated comparison out of our ass, see we're in good form today19:58
jrwreni agree with the sentiment that more things don't work on linux. i wont single anyone out19:58
brouschthe iphone stuff i can understand since you need a mac to dev for it anyways19:58
snap-ltjagoda: Sell apps? What kind of corporate bullshit are you trying to pull in here. :)19:58
brouschbut android runs linux and mono comes from the linux world19:59
snap-lHeck, I wish Stardock would port all of their stuff to Linux, since they used to be OS/2 friendly19:59
jrwrenit is a bummer there isn't more of a market for the linux version. i agree.19:59
tjagodaStardock on linux19:59
tjagodaI would abandon steam for all possible things19:59
rick_h__yay! when gnome doesn't slow things down enough19:59
snap-lI mean the games, not the curtains shit19:59
brouschsnap-l: my sister works at stardock. they laughed at me for requesting linux versions19:59
tjagodaI hear they barely make money right now20:00
tjagodaso just laugh back at them20:00
snap-lI'll go to their offices with check in hand for Linux versions20:00
brouschthey said "linux? ha, we want to make money!"20:00
snap-lI'm not afraid to pay for what I want20:00
tjagodasnap-l is our pimp sugar daddy20:00
snap-lWell, I think it's a circular argument20:01
brouschjrwren: isn't one of the big selling points of mono that if you develop your progam right it will run on windows, osx, and linux?20:01
snap-l"There's no money in Linux" "Linux Users won't pay for anything"20:01
snap-lSo let me give you money.20:02
snap-l"There's no market"20:02
snap-lSo create a market20:02
snap-l"There's no money in Linux" "Linux Users won't pay for anything"20:02
tjagodaThis reminds me of the $400 mono kit20:02
snap-lLinux users are very good at making do20:04
snap-lso if all you add is a toolchain, then don't expect Linux users to get excited20:04
snap-lbut if you really add value, Linux users will also pay money20:04
tjagodaI buy fluendo20:04
snap-lI bought Fluendo20:05
snap-land then found something that was incompatible, and went back to bad / ugly20:05
jrwrenbrousch: no, that is not one of the big selling points of mono AFAIK :)20:06
snap-lWhen grey-area free works better than commercial, it's a really hard sell20:06
snap-ljrwren: enlighten us, please20:06
jrwrenyou guys are laughing, but its true. more products have failed in the linux market than have succeeded.20:06
jrwrensnap-l: enlighten you about what?20:07
snap-lnumbers, case studies, or it didn't happen20:07
snap-lThe big selling points of mono20:07
brouschi guess that was what made me try mono20:07
brouschi have no idea why anyone would want to use it otherwise20:07
jrwrenselling point of mono is a beautiful language with C# on a great modern fast virtual machine in the mono runtime.20:08
brouschwhy not use MS's .NET?20:08
jrwrenon widows, please do use MS .NET20:08
snap-ljrwren: SO, what marketplace failures have you seen with Linux?20:09
jrwrenkylix i think it was called20:12
jrwrenwas delphi for linux20:12
jrwrencomplete with a vb like design surface20:12
jrwrenand I htink the end result ran on linux adn windows.20:12
snap-lConsidering Delphi wasn't a success under Windows, I don't see that as a problem intrinsic to Linux20:13
jrwrendelphi still exists and is sold and supported on windows.20:13
jrwrendepending on how you define success, it is a success.20:13
greg-ginterview portion went ok, now they (the 4 who interviewed me) are pow-wow'ing in the conference room before we go out to lunch20:14
snap-lgreg-g: Awesmome. :)20:14
snap-ljrwren: OK, we'll give you that one.20:14
snap-ljrwren: How about a success: The Humble Indie Bundle. :)20:15
snap-ljrwren: Now, another failure, please?20:15
jrwrenare you seriously trying to tell me there is a market for linux software?20:16
jrwren*non server.20:16
snap-ljrwren: Yes, I am20:16
jrwrenand explicitly development tools.20:16
rick_h__canonical seems to hope so, with app purches in the software center20:16
jrwrenmeego fail.20:16
snap-ljrwren: Oh, moving the goalposts are we?20:16
rick_h__pydev, aptana, wingide, all cost $$20:16
snap-ldevelopment marketplace is different20:16
jrwreni'm not moving anything. the discussion is aobut monodroid.20:16
brouschaptana is free d00d20:16
rick_h__brousch: didn't they have a pay version?20:17
brouschas is pydev (now owned by Aptana)20:17
jrwrenIMO there is very little market20:17
rick_h__ah ok, well zend studio for php, window ide, pycharm for python20:17
brouschpydev used to have a free and paid versions, but they merged and are free20:17
rick_h__there's lots of editors that are pay on linux20:17
rick_h__in the dev space20:17
snap-ljrwren: Yeah, you're right on that account20:17
snap-lI think it gets back into the roll your own mentality of Linux users20:18
rick_h__it's not about the market. It's all about the community of mono grew up in the linux world and now is not part of this future product.20:18
rick_h__if you can't see that, try to hang out in communities more20:19
snap-lThe last development environment I bought was Borland C++ and Delphi, and both of those were student versions20:19
snap-lrick_h__: Doesn't surprise me, though20:19
rick_h__doesn't make it any less 'rude'ish20:19
snap-lNo, it is prickish20:20
rick_h__you can justify until the cows come home, brousch's reaction is still legit20:20
rick_h__and to hammer it with all these "you going to fork $400 over" is just trolling20:20
snap-lfrankly, I think developer tools are too damn expensive anyway (now THERE's troll-bait)20:21
snap-lI looked through those Programmer Paradise catalogs thinking "you've got to be fucking kidding me"20:21
snap-l$1195 PER SEAT is just gouging20:22
rick_h__greg-g: still alive?20:22
greg-gyeah, they're still talking20:22
jrwrenhow is that different than a pay-for QT product?20:22
jrwrenor any pay-for product that uses glib or gtk or other open source?20:23
snap-lI get a little perturbed when I see a game that uses Python not available for Linux20:24
jrwreni totally adn completely don't understand how a reaction of " mail them a flaming20:24
_stink__greg-g: reminds me of after my dissertation defense, when i got kicked out and the committee stayed in there for like 25 minutes20:24
snap-lI see that as being lazy.20:24
jrwren bag of turds." is ever "legit"20:24
_stink__i think they were just telling raunchy jokes20:24
greg-ghaha, yeah, I hear laughing20:24
_stink__awesome :P20:24
snap-lAnd if something uses Mono, I'd like to have a Linux version20:25
snap-leven if it's $40020:25
snap-lI expect the same of Java20:25
jrwrenI'd like to have a little red corvette20:25
snap-lWrite once, run anywhere should be just that20:26
jrwrenMono has NEVER been write once run anywhere.20:26
snap-l(within reason, mind you)20:26
snap-ljrwren: Then that's Mono's problem.20:26
jrwrenjava used to say that and it was always write once, debug everywhere20:26
jrwrenor... its not a problem.20:26
brouschthen i was misinformed20:27
snap-lme too. I guess there is no such thing as a silver bullet20:27
snap-lback to not caring about mono20:27
brouschuse mono and gtk# and you can run your app anywhere20:27
jrwrenbrousch: go try that for a real world app :)20:27
brouschwhere anywhere is windows, osx, and linux, of course20:27
jrwrenand solaris and aix and all the places mono runs?20:28
brouschi wrote 2 very small apps that way20:28
jrwrenand playstation 3 and wii? because mono runs there.20:28
brouschthen found python20:28
snap-lY'know, if Linux users made something amazing that wouldn't run on Windows, we'd be called elitist pricks20:28
snap-lbut if Windows users make something amazing, and Linux users don't get any, it's called marketplace. ;)20:29
jrwrenthere is tons of sweet stuff that is or wsa linux only - its just that people port the sweet stuff to windows quickly20:29
snap-lIt's because we like to share20:29
jrwrenno, its called no one cares. apparently less interest or ability to move it to linux.20:29
snap-lyeah, marketplace.20:29
snap-lWhatever. ;)20:29
jrwrengnome-do is a great example... i've got nothing that great on windows... especially 4 yrs ago20:29
jrwrenf-spot was better than anything on windows for years IMO.20:30
jrwrenthere is a windows port??? sweet!20:30
snap-lwas, in 200820:30
jrwrenthere wasn't 4 yrs ago.20:30
jrwreni haven't looked at gnome-do in about 4 yrs.20:30
snap-lmigueldeicaza: @brousch Ironically, it is mostly developed on Linux.   Just the test/QA/support matrix for various Linux flavors makes it too expensive |03:2020:32
snap-lI hope they rectify that.20:33
brouschat least now i don't have to speculate20:34
snap-lI think the pricetag is just because Windows users are gullible enough to pay for development environments. ;)20:35
snap-l(needle needle)20:35
brouschso it's really a statement about how linux fragmentation prevents good software from coming to linux20:40
snap-lcould also be a statement that Miguel & co. don't want to take shit from people complaining that they don't support the distribution they just release three minutes ago from their basement20:43
brouschbah, put out a .deb for ubuntu and debian, and an rpm for opensuse and fedora and call it a day20:46
jrwrenthe rest of the linux community, which is unfortunately extremely vocal would give them shit to no end.20:57
brouschnone of them use mono anyways21:00
brouschit's too evil for them21:00
jrwrentrue, but they would cry foul anyway.21:00
Blazeix_I'm not sure I buy that. Plenty of applications provide debs and rpms, and then link to unofficial packages built for other distros21:00
binbraintheres not a ton of mono apps is there?21:00
jrwrenthe difference is that this is a commercial product with full support.21:01
brouschug, this monitor totally freaks out running ubuntu without the nvidia drivers21:07
brouschhopefully i can install nvidia-96 manually21:07
snap-lFolks going door to door21:42
slestakjcastro: i have some info n a bug from the local jam22:06
slestakwrt gpodder in Natty22:06
jcastrooh rock22:07
jcastrowhat is it?22:07
slestaki worked with thomas perl in #gpodder and there is a known db migration bug in 2.11 (what installed from repo on natty) that is not present in 2.13 (current)22:08
slestakwhen I opened the database in sqlite manager, all my data was there in _save tables.  I just had to do some dropping and renaming and all is well22:08
slestakso I would recommend bump gpodder to 2.13 for Natty22:08
jcastrook awesome22:09
jcastrois there a bug report for that?22:09
slestaksry, i dont have any bug numbers22:09
slestakthere may be, i am covered over at work so I dont have that22:09
jcastroI'll sort it22:09
jcastrowhat's your launchpad id?22:10
slestakthp in #gpodder might have it handy22:10
jcastroI'll sub you to the bug so you can follow along22:10
slestakit may be just the slestak989 part22:10
slestaki dont use lp too much (slowwww)22:10
slestakthe beta I installed has been solid for me.22:10
slestaki know you got a lot of negative feedback on the hidden menu22:11
jcastroit's all good22:11
jcastroI don't take it personally22:11
slestakI want to give a positive note to it, it keeps the interface clean22:11
jcastroeven though rick_h__ and snap-l do22:11
* jcastro runs22:11
* snap-l gets the harpoons22:11
snap-l /scorpion jcastro "GET OVER HERE"22:12
slestakas apps get ported to be unity compliant, we will know that there is a menu there.22:12
snap-lAnd after upgrading gwibber to 3.0, I have fail.22:13
snap-land gwibber is completely fucked.22:22
snap-lgreg-g: Remember when you mentioned that gwibber didn't ship with certain services?22:32
snap-lYou can install them separately.22:32
greg-gsnap-l: huh, lame, they should at least be just one extra package for "all other services supported by gwibber"22:37
greg-gbtw, hello from SFO22:37
snap-lHowdy from DTX22:37
snap-lBack on a plane?22:38
greg-gnot yet, boards in like 30 minutes22:38
jcastrogreg-g: in the gui it's just a set of checkboxes22:38
snap-lOnce again leaving the CLI users behind22:39
snap-lCanonical doesn't care about black-screened people.22:40
jcastrowell, you wanted a list of packages22:40
greg-gbrousch: I love your The Social Network vs Ghostbusters retweet22:53
brouschok, how do i boot natty without X? to install the nvidia drivers i need to stop X and do it at the console, but i can't figure out how to do that22:53
Blazeix_can you boot into single user mode? Append 'single' to the end of the 'kernel' line in grub.22:59
brouschi'll try that23:00
greg-gyeah, grub is probably your best bet23:01
brouschin the old days it was hard to keep X up, now i can't get it to go down23:02
Blazeix_I think alt-sysrq-k will kill X once it's running, so you could try that too.23:06
brouschheh, the sysrq killed x, but it came right back23:20
brouschah, got it23:33
brouschhold shift during boot to get grub menu, select recovery kernel, in recovery menu drop to root shell23:34
brouschdamnit, the nvidia installer says i should be in runlevel 323:35
brouschok, init 3 at the root prompt put me in runlevel 323:36

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