[00:36] <bryceh> RAOF, so what I've been thinking is the more bugs we can get sent upstream right now in this period between betas, the better
[00:36] <bryceh> at the moment most of the software is relatively up to date enough that upstream will care, 
[00:36] <bryceh> and its still early enough we can pull in patches if/when they become available
[00:37] <RAOF> And we've got time to do something about any fixes!
[00:37] <bryceh> past beta2, we're probably going to see diminishing returns
[00:37] <bryceh> so after beta2 it makes sense to focus on key bugs and general testing
[00:39] <bryceh> I'm not sure what we should or can do about the proprietary driver bugs
[00:39] <RAOF> Neither am I.
[00:40] <bryceh> time spent on them may not be as high a pay off as time spent on foss drivers, so focusing on the latter seems to make the most sense
[00:40] <RAOF> Well, I guess we can try to work out whether it's a packaging problem or not and fix those.
[00:40] <bryceh> yep
[00:40] <RAOF> I'm somewhat surprised we haven't seen more nouveau bugs, actually.
[00:40] <bryceh> yeah me too
[00:41] <bryceh> I think I've heard more people *say* they have nouveau troubles than we have bug reports
[00:42] <bryceh> but it's been such a quasi-supported driver for so long maybe they've become accustomed not to report stuff
[00:42] <RAOF> I'm somewhat suspicious, yeah.  Particularly with some of the newer nvidia cards; there's a possibly resolved bug upstream that causes the newer cards to hang quite frequently when accel is enabled, but we don't *seem* to be seeing many of those bugs.
[00:43] <RAOF> Maybe you're right; we've conditioned people to expect poor outcomes :/
[00:44] <bryceh> it was the same with -ati long ago, I think things'll change, but the driver needs to get closer to par first probably
[00:45] <RAOF> And maybe not have the 3d in -experimental-no-really-don't-report-bugs.
[00:45] <bryceh> from http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/Bugs it sounds like they accept 3d nouveau bugs now, filed against mesa, so that sounds promising
[00:45] <RAOF> Yeah.  It's new and shiny and interesting.
[00:46] <bryceh> maybe it would be sensible to organize a nouveau 3d testing week next cycle or something
[00:46] <RAOF> It would, yes.
[00:48] <RAOF> I suspect we'd find that most things work well, newer cards hang after a while, and some things just don't work.
[00:48]  * bryceh nods
[00:49] <bryceh> probably what would give the most bang for the buck is some gpu hang debugging tools for nouveau
[00:50] <bryceh> since judging from other drm drivers that seems to be the primary bugbear with 3d
[00:51] <RAOF> Yeah.
[07:01] <tjaalton_> RAOF, bryceh_, Sarvatt: so what do we do with 1.10.1 when it arrives? there are a whole bunch of memleaks fixed, among others
[07:04] <tjaalton> i'd also like to push libx11 1.4.2 in natty, been using it for a couple of weeks without problems
[07:07] <RAOF> What does it fix?
[07:08] <tjaalton> "Additionally, Jamey Sharp has provided some fixes for Display lock handling
[07:08] <tjaalton> that caused some deadlocks when using xcb for transport (which was optional
[07:08] <tjaalton> in 1.3.x and is required in 1.4.x), so this update is highly recomended to
[07:08] <tjaalton> users of multi-threaded Xlib applications.
[07:08] <tjaalton> "
[07:08] <tjaalton> oops
[07:09] <tjaalton> there's bug 507602 which could be cured by that
[07:09] <ubot4`> tjaalton: Bug 507602 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/507602 is private
[07:09] <tjaalton> hell it is
[07:09] <tjaalton> oh
[07:09] <tjaalton> bug 507062
[07:09] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 507062 in libx11 (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) "synaptic assert failure: synaptic: ../../src/xcb_io.c:385: _XAllocID: Assertion `ret != inval_id' failed. (affects: 388) (dups: 266) (heat: 2410)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507062
[07:10] <RAOF> Sounds like a reasonably useful fix.
[07:14] <tjaalton> rest are here http://www.spinics.net/lists/xorg/msg52211.html
[07:14] <tjaalton> do we still need ffe's for bugfix-releases
[07:14] <tjaalton> ?
[07:15] <RAOF> No.
[07:15] <tjaalton> oh, so this could just go in? sweet
[07:15] <tjaalton> if you are for it, of course :)
[07:15] <RAOF> :)
[07:15] <tjaalton> there's also 1.4.3 which only adds some define for sinhala
[07:16] <RAOF> I remember reading a lot of those patches; they looked trivially correct.
[07:20] <RAOF> Do you have test packages available?  I guess they're in alioth git?
[07:21] <tjaalton> let me check
[07:21] <tjaalton> at least they are on my local trees
[07:22] <tjaalton> hum, should be fine yes
[07:23] <RAOF> I'll give 'im a try, then.
[07:23] <tjaalton> cool
[07:25] <RAOF> As for 1.10.1, I guess that depends on how soon it's out.
[07:26] <RAOF> I haven't followed the patches flowing there quite so much.
[07:26] <tjaalton> yeah, there's 1.10.0.901 from last week, after that it got the memleak fixes from tiago
[07:26] <tjaalton> I'll merge it locally and see if it fixes the menus on my savage
[07:29] <bryceh_> I'd like to get as many fixes in as possible between now and release.  Cherrypicking is great, if there are bugfix releases available which we're reasonably certain don't add regressions, those are good too
[07:30] <tjaalton> there are no regression fixes merged to the branch after .901
[07:31] <tjaalton> not that it means there couldn't be regressions, but
[07:32] <bryceh_> we've still got 3 weeks to go, plus sru's after that.  So there's time to fix things as long as we're attentive to bug reports coming in
[07:33] <bryceh_> I feel a lot more comfortable given that the bug queue has been kept under control.  We're not drowning in bug reports, so I feel we're going to be able to spot and respond to regressions that come up between now and release very quickly
[07:33] <bryceh_> so I'm not super worried if we pull in 1.10.1 and it has a regression or two, that it's going to be a huge deal.
[07:33] <tjaalton> right
[07:33] <bryceh_> but like raof says, sooner is better :-)
[07:33] <tjaalton> so I'll prepare .901 in git
[07:33] <tjaalton> and test it here
[07:34] <bryceh_> oh, also, I just noticed http://lwn.net/Articles/437018/ - has anyone pulled that fix in yet?
[07:34] <tjaalton> then it's closer to .1 once it's released
[07:35] <tjaalton> sarvatt pulled it in x11-server-utils
[07:35] <bryceh_> ok
[07:35] <tjaalton> xrdb 1.0.9 that is, x11-s-u isn't released yet though
[08:21] <tjaalton> i'll close bug 312756, it just messes up my mailbox
[08:21] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 312756 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "MASTER: support graphics card hot switch (affects: 249) (dups: 2) (heat: 1350)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312756
[08:22] <bryceh_> heh
[08:22] <tjaalton> nice that the "hybrid graphics linux" -project uses that bug to gather dst information
[08:23] <tjaalton> and not their own project bugs (there are none, of course)
[13:21] <tjaalton> Sarvatt, bryceh_: bug 752315 done apart from the uploads
[13:21] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 752315 in x11-xserver-utils (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 5 other projects) "[SECURITY update] Sync x11-xserver-utils 7.6+2 (main) from Debian unstable (main) (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 18)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/752315
[13:22] <tjaalton> used the same bug for hardy/karmic/lucid/maverick
[13:23] <tjaalton> and pushed ubuntu-{lucid,maverick} to git
[15:41] <Sarvatt> RAOF: I went ahead and reverted the sandybridge speedup in git, never managed to get it working on just GT2 and not GT1 :(
[16:28] <tjaalton> merged xserver 1.10.0.901 from experimental
[16:28] <jcristau> had to redo your xrdb updates?
[16:28] <tjaalton> yeah they wanted the patch separate, not inline
[16:29] <jcristau> ok
[16:29] <tjaalton> and fixed the changelog too
[16:29] <jcristau> i was too lazy to bother with quilt so i just edited the patch and git am'ed it
[16:30] <tjaalton> i cherry-picked it, applied fine on every release :)
[16:30] <tjaalton> i think
[16:30] <jcristau> yeah
[16:30] <tjaalton> didn't build-test them though
[16:31] <jcristau> just had to s,xrdb.c,xrdb/&,g
[16:31] <jcristau> because of the bundle thing
[16:31] <tjaalton> ah right
[16:35] <jcristau> other than that, yeah, it applied without fuzz or anything :)
[16:35] <jcristau> yay for slow-moving sw
[16:38] <tjaalton> yep :)
[17:00] <jcristau> tjaalton: do you get to fix dapper as well?
[17:00] <tjaalton> jcristau: hmm, I believe this falls under the 3y desktop support, but I'll confirm
[17:01] <tjaalton> mdeslaur: ^
[17:02] <tjaalton> ha, lp lists it as supported
[17:02] <tjaalton> so, yes
[17:02] <jcristau> 6 months release cycles make for too many branches :)
[17:02] <tjaalton> yep!
[17:03] <tjaalton> i'd favor 1y cadence, and then every other release would be LTS
[17:04] <tjaalton> there, I said it :)
[17:06] <tjaalton> hmm doesn't apply
[17:06] <tjaalton> two hunks failed
[17:40] <mdeslaur> tjaalton, jcristau: this is the list for the current dapper supported packages: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/dapper-lts-server-supported.txt
[17:50] <tjaalton> yeah
[19:12] <bryceh_> tjaalton, thanks
[19:17] <bjsnider> ricotz, is gnome 3 fully built in the ppa now or...?
[19:25] <ricotz> bjsnider, kind of -- it is still missing some stuff
[19:25] <bjsnider> does it actually work at this point?
[19:26] <ricotz> i am using for some weeks now
[19:26] <ricotz> but you will loose the gnome2/unity session
[19:26] <bjsnider> gnome-shell works ok?
[19:27] <ricotz> so far it does
[19:27] <ricotz> but it will be more stable with 3.2 ;)
[19:30] <bjsnider> is it playing well with the nvidia driver?
[19:30] <ricotz> yes, besides the message-tray-slowness
[19:32] <bjsnider> how soon before the rest of the packages are in the ppa?
[19:33] <ricotz> i dont know, the desktop-team is quite busy with natty, and my time is limited too
[19:33] <ricotz> do you miss something?
[19:34] <ricotz> i hope gdm will get in soon
[19:40] <bjsnider> i just want to test it after everything's in
[19:40] <bjsnider> probably has a better chance of working
[19:59] <ricotz> bjsnider, you are not brave enough? ;)
[20:06] <bjsnider> ricotz, unity is already more than unstable enough for me. i will not tempt fate any more.
[20:06] <ricotz> ;)
[20:07] <bjsnider> at least it works fast with nvidia, when it isn't crashing
[20:09] <ricotz> i havent used unity yet -- i am obviously more a docky fan :P
[20:10] <bjsnider> why do you need docky if you have gnome-shell?
[20:20] <ricotz> bjsnider, i like to have dock
[20:20] <ricotz> i know there is a dock extension, but it dont have the features
[20:26] <bjsnider> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nbi8JuC8JM
[20:26] <bjsnider> ricotz, is that what it looks like to you?
[20:43] <ricotz> bjsnider, yes
[21:25] <cnd> bryceh_, help me out :)
[21:26] <cnd> I can't find the release notes on the wiki anywhere
[21:26] <cnd> neither google nor wiki searching help
[21:26] <cnd> do you remember where they are?
[21:27] <bryceh_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview
[21:27] <bryceh_> cnd, release notes are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview
[21:28] <bryceh_> probably ought to be linked to more prominently.  Wonder if we can update the topic here?
[21:29] <bryceh_> nope
[21:29] <cnd> bryceh_, they used to be at MaverickMeerkat/ReleaseNotes
[21:30] <cnd> it's not so obvious anymore :)
[21:30] <bryceh_> yeah
[21:34] <ScottK> RAOF or Sarvatt: I've got this sandybridge laptop now.  It' mostly good, but there's some pretty bad screen corruption in some cases.  Any hope for this getting better?  Any thing I can help with on testing/bug filing?