[00:00] <rlameiro> ailo: I am sure that is possible:D i dont know enough about it, but i am sure that already exists
[00:00] <rlameiro> like some default policies for creating userd
[00:00] <rlameiro> users
[00:00] <ailo> rlameiro, Right. Should not be too hard to add.
[00:02] <ronj> back, wow there is a lot to read :P
[00:03] <ScottL> i just had an idea...
[00:04] <ScottL> it wouldn't be hard to build another version of ubuntu studio with crap loads of things that ubuntu doesn't let us have
[00:04] <ScottL> after the official iso is released we could rebuild the image (outside of the official buildd system) with the additional apps or drivers or whatnot
[00:04] <rlameiro> ScottL: I like you more and more every time you talk :D
[00:05] <ronj> :D
[00:05] <ScottL> dick macinnis already wants to make a live version of natty after it is released
[00:05] <ScottL> rlameiro, i already liked you :)
[00:05] <rlameiro> ScottL: me to, but now even more!!!!
[00:05] <ScottL> and keep in mind we are already looking at moving towards a live install in the very near future
[00:05] <ScottL> lol rlameiro :)
[00:05]  * ScottL is going outside with the kids and dogs for a bit
[00:06]  * ronj will be pleased to be the witness at ScottL and rlameiro union
[00:06] <rlameiro> ronj: well, i would love to ply with ScottL some day. 
[00:06] <ronj> ^^
[00:06] <rlameiro> at least when i have money to go to the US
[00:07] <rlameiro> Maybe making 2 songs for the RPM
[00:11] <rlameiro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr6zHE8HgZ4
[00:12] <rlameiro> Ubuntu Studio 11.04 BETA 1 First Look Review Overview 
[01:51] <ScottL> rlameiro, you still around?
[01:51] <ScottL> i did some more organizing to the tutorial video webpage
[01:51] <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos
[01:52] <ScottL> keep in mind not all of these are going to have video tutorials
[01:52] <ScottL> but they will probably have some sort of documentation
[01:52] <ScottL> my thoughts were that the (very rough) outline would be...
[01:52] <ScottL> 1. introduction
[01:52] <ScottL> 2. installation
[01:52] <ScottL> 3. simple tasks (audio/visual/graphical)
[01:53] <ScottL> 4. advanced tasks (a/v/g)
[01:53] <ScottL> i will need yours and ailo and anyone else's assistance to help decide what needs to be in #3 and #4
[01:53] <ScottL> i'm not asking everyone to actually do the documentation at this point, just help decide which tasks should be in #3 and #4
[01:54] <ScottL> once we have the framework then we can worry about who will help create the documentation and who is best suited to do what
[01:56] <holstein> ScottL: i really like that outline structure by the way
[01:56] <ScottL> holstein, thanks :)
[01:58] <ScottL> i feel pretty good about it as well, i really did try to frame things in a way that it was a narrative of me telling a friend that doesn't use ubuntu but is a musician
[01:58] <ScottL> i felt that this would be a good approach to informing and enticing another musician who isn't familiar with ubuntu to use ubuntu studio
[01:58] <ScottL> and hopefully give them enough background to help them navigate into linux
[01:59] <ScottL> i think there is another major consideration we face right now though
[01:59] <holstein> XFCE ?
[02:00] <ScottL> lol, well, there is that one too :)
[02:00] <ScottL> but i meant within the documentation bailiwick
[02:00] <holstein> yeah, i hear you
[02:00] <ScottL> whether we want to put the documentation on the canonical wiki or on the new website
[02:00] <holstein> i think we should try and make sure its mirrored at least
[02:01] <holstein> like, documentation on the site links directly to canonical
[02:01] <holstein> or vice-versa
[02:01] <holstein> sucks when its fragmented
[02:01] <holstein> and the wikis can be a pain in the ass
[02:01] <ScottL> but where would the actual content be located?  website or wiki
[02:01] <holstein> *not just in an ubuntustudio sense
[02:01] <holstein> all the wikis in general
[02:01] <holstein> challenging to maintain
[02:02] <holstein> ScottL: what do you think?
[02:02] <holstein> im leaning towards site
[02:02] <holstein> just for control
[02:02] <ScottL> i wanted to ask kokito to see if the content on the wiki could be read off the wiki and presented on the website
[02:02] <holstein> AH
[02:02] <holstein> that would be nice
[02:02] <holstein> one edit point is a win
[02:03] <holstein> and plenty to keep up with in our state
[02:03] <ScottL> but it may not format well with such formating as headers   = This is the Title =
[02:03] <ScottL> i don't think the equals sign would work well on the drupal website
[02:03] <holstein> i feel like we have a good team developing
[02:03] <ScottL> i think there are several benefits to hosting the documentation on the website
[02:03] <holstein> if we can plan and try and be as future-proof as possible
[02:04] <ScottL> good point
[02:04] <holstein> we actually have a lot of relevant documentation though
[02:04] <holstein> if anything, we have too much documentation id say
[02:04] <holstein> some of the stuff is not needed anymore
[02:05] <holstein> which is good
[02:05] <ScottL> true, some needs to deprecated (which i've done a bit)
[02:05] <holstein> i mean, ideally
[02:05] <holstein> its all videos
[02:05] <holstein> about how to use the software
[02:05] <holstein> fun, hands-on stuff :)
[02:05] <holstein> kernel just works
[02:05] <ScottL> but yes, a lot of it is good for archiving to understand what used to be necessary
[02:05] <holstein> JACK'll usually just work
[02:05] <holstein> that'll be nice
[02:05] <holstein> and i think we are acutally close to that
[02:05] <holstein> thanks to the awesome upstream trickle down
[02:06] <ScottL> hosting on the website gives us a better looking format (i really still don't like the wiki's formatting)
[02:06] <ScottL> we have more control over the content, both in scope and format
[02:06] <holstein> ScottL: to be honest, the wikis are a drag
[02:06] <holstein> totally needed and necessary
[02:06] <holstein> and i get it
[02:06] <holstein> but still...
[02:06] <ScottL> it will be in a single source for people to search on the internet, the place where they google "ubuntu studio" will also be where all the information is
[02:07] <holstein> ScottL: i think a really clear forum is going to be key
[02:07] <ScottL> we can actually delete pages from the website :P  not like the wiki
[02:07] <holstein> ScottL: and when people go to help, are they dumped into #ubuntu?
[02:07] <holstein> could we change that?
[02:07] <ScottL> i'm not sure what you mean by that
[02:07] <holstein> to dump them in both #ubuntu and #ubuntustudio ?
[02:07] <ScottL> do you mean on IRC?
[02:08] <holstein> yeah, maybe thats not happening anymore
[02:08] <holstein> ive been using irssi for a couple releases now
[02:08] <holstein> used to be you'd lauch pidgin or whatever
[02:08] <ScottL> no, i think when xchat is installed it defaults to #ubuntu for the ubuntu-severs
[02:08] <holstein> and be dumped in #ubuntu by default
[02:08] <ScottL> but i have faith we can fix that
[02:09] <holstein> something for the back burner
[02:09] <ScottL> i have been aggregating a list of things that would be nice to fix and maybe we can for ocelot
[02:09]  * ScottL dislikes the new code name for natty+1, too damn hard to spell and type
[02:09] <ScottL> but hosting on the wiki has advantages as well
[02:09] <holstein> im looking forward to proud paciderm
[02:09] <holstein> or whatever
[02:10] <ScottL> anyone with launchpad account can add or edit content on the wiki
[02:10] <ScottL> we dont' have to worry about the site itself as far as security, others do that
[02:10] <ScottL> we don't have to worry about attacks to the site (like DDos), others do that
[02:11] <ScottL> holstein, keep in mind that formating wiki will probably be as difficult as formating in drupal :P
[02:11] <holstein> thats true
[02:12] <ScottL> hosting docs on the website means that we would need to really get people accounts, we would be spending time managing the website way more then
[02:12] <holstein> ScottL: this is the time to think about it
[02:12] <ScottL> i can help you holstein with wiki formatting, there are only a few things to have to remember
[02:12] <holstein> we could just link offically to the wiki's
[02:13] <holstein> i usually just hit edit
[02:13] <holstein> on some other page
[02:13] <holstein> and steal what formatting i need :)
[02:13] <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#User%20Help
[02:13] <ScottL> holstein, there are some of things i thought about to help users (stochastic even suggested one as well)
[02:15] <ScottL> holstein, that's where i learned a lot of what i know....and playing around a bit
[02:15] <ScottL> but usually i dump all the information in first then come back and edit the formatting quite a bit to get it right
[02:17] <holstein> yeah, thats shaping up nicely :)
[02:17] <holstein> im trying to remember what was challenging for me
[02:17] <holstein> other than just getting the firewire device working back then
[02:20] <ScottL> http://screencasters.heathenx.org/wp-content/videos/ep017/ep017.html
[02:20] <ScottL> it would cool to have a title screen like this for the ubuntu studio tutorials
[02:21] <holstein> no flash :)
[02:22] <ScottL> i don't think that is flash is it?
[02:22] <ScottL> i thought they did .ogv :/
[02:23] <holstein> no, i mean, it doesnt require flash 
[02:23] <holstein> in a good way 
[02:23] <holstein> and i like it
[02:23] <ScottL> oh, you were saying for *us* to not use flash
[02:23] <holstein> yeah, just like they did
[02:24] <holstein> its just playing in chromium like a champ
[02:24] <holstein> i like that
[02:24] <holstein> theres still not a lot of content up like that yet though
[02:26] <ScottL> it plays well with firefox as well, especially the latest update or firefox4
[02:26] <ScottL> ginger coons (of libre graphics magazine) made a comment about ubuntu staff vs. others like fedora
[02:27] <ScottL> she didn't like some of the politics because ubuntu staff doesnt' walk the walk, they use proprietary apps
[02:27] <ScottL> while fedora uses open source stuff
[02:27] <holstein> interesting
[02:27] <holstein> i do like to try and keep an open house
[02:27] <ScottL> i want to roll like fedora and screencasters
[02:27] <ScottL> yeah, i plan to use either .ogv or .webm
[02:27] <ScottL> html 5, baby!
[02:27] <holstein> it works *so* well too
[02:28] <holstein> i mean, sometimes i compromise to be open
[02:28] <ScottL> yeah :/
[02:28] <holstein> i dont feel like that is a compromise in quality really
[02:28] <ScottL> and sometimes there isn't a viable open source alternative as well
[02:28] <holstein> yeah
[02:28] <holstein> its way better all the time though
[02:28] <ScottL> oh yeah, i don't feel that either .ogv or .webm is comprimising too be honest
[02:29] <ScottL> i * think * .ogv is better than some formats like .avi or .mpeg
[02:29] <ScottL> well not .avi i guess, since i believe it's a container rather than a codec
[02:29] <ScottL> video is all really, really confusing
[02:29] <holstein> can be
[02:29] <ScottL> you can have a .mpeg container with the .mpeg coded (i believe) but also...
[02:29] <holstein> lots of different formats
[02:29] <holstein> and containers
[02:29] <holstein> and crap
[02:29] <ScottL> a .mpeg container with a h.264 codec
[02:30] <ScottL> but i'll shoot for either .ogv or .webm though
[02:30] <ScottL> the trouble i'm having right now is that i'm running svn blender (2.5.6.5) under lucid
[02:30] <holstein> yeah
[02:31] <ScottL> which doesn't have the fancy ffmpeg with webm enabled :(
[02:31] <holstein> im getting that feeling that i should move on from lucid
[02:31] <ScottL> BUT the new blender is AWESOME!
[02:31] <rlameiro> ScottL: here now
[02:31] <ScottL> yeah, me too, i probably will with natty...there are so many updates compared to lucid
[02:31] <ScottL> rlameiro, oh good ;)  did you read what i said?
[02:31] <holstein> im going to try and wait it out
[02:31] <rlameiro> I Like it
[02:31] <holstein> its so stable now
[02:31] <holstein> *my system
[02:31] <rlameiro> just readed it
[02:32] <ScottL> rlameiro, any thoughts, comments, corrections, suggestions, lottery numbers?
[02:32] <ScottL> holstein, good point, i do have the -rt kernel on it
[02:32] <ScottL> and it runs good
[02:33] <holstein> thats a good kernel
[02:33] <rlameiro> ScottL: nope, now is just crete content :D
[02:33] <holstein> im using the newer abogani/falk one
[02:33] <ScottL> but if i want to do the video i need to have a proper setup, of course i can dedicate a machine to it running natty and keep it away from development
[02:34] <rlameiro> one thing.... what kind of acees and space does ubuntustudio have?
[02:34] <rlameiro> for the webpage that is
[02:34] <ScottL> rlameiro, well, i would like to flesh out more of the tasks we would like to document,  like "setting up jack", "recording audio in ardour" type things
[02:34] <ScottL> and decide if they are "simple" or "advanced"
[02:34] <rlameiro> ScottL: that was the idea :D
[02:34] <ScottL> "acees and space"?
[02:35] <rlameiro> access and space to webserver...
[02:35] <rlameiro> for the webpage
[02:35] <ScottL> oh
[02:35] <ScottL> well, that's a funny situation
[02:35] <rlameiro> is it possible to have another mysql db?
[02:35] <rlameiro> or how does it work?
[02:35] <rlameiro> who owns the domain?
[02:35] <rlameiro> etc
[02:35] <ScottL> to make it a short explanation i would expect us to move to our own hosting
[02:36] <rlameiro> YAY
[02:36] <ScottL> that's not definitive, but if things continue the way they have i would expect it to be the best move
[02:36] <ScottL> this is the way i think it currently works
[02:36] <ScottL> the website formatting (the drupal) part is contained in a bzr branch
[02:37] <ScottL> canonical inspects changes to this and uploads it to the webserver (at their leisure i believe)
[02:37] <rlameiro> ????
[02:37] <ScottL> not to imply that it takes months and months to upload things
[02:37] <ScottL> i don't believe anyone has access to that part of the server
[02:37] <rlameiro> well, are we a comunity distro or not?
[02:38] <ScottL> i believe that currently stochastic and cory have access to the drupal website to edit content
[02:38] <ScottL> rlameiro, i think that answer is probably "not really"
[02:38] <ScottL> as far as making decisions goes, that is
[02:39] <rlameiro> hummm
[02:39] <ScottL> i think a lot of "earth shaking" decisions probably happen behind closed doors
[02:39] <rlameiro> but if we use our own hosting and stuff, do canonical kick us out?
[02:39] <ScottL> but then again, i believe fedora relies on their community board to make decisions, so it's still not the community directly in those cases
[02:39] <ScottL> but at least it seems to be transparent or more transparent
[02:40] <ScottL> rlameiro, i don't think so, i would imagine they would appreciate us hosting ourselves, less work for them
[02:40] <rlameiro> well, then we need to have the domain also
[02:40] <rlameiro> as we, ubuntustudio we
[02:40] <ScottL> not that it's a lot of work currently i would imagine, maybe more of a personal nuisance to whoever has to do it
[02:40] <ScottL> cory said that canonical owns the domain name, but would point it wherever we wanted
[02:41] <rlameiro> cool
[02:41] <ScottL> i can't validate how we knows that, but i trust cory on it
[02:41] <rlameiro> can we use subdomains?
[02:41] <rlameiro> like wiki.ubuntustudio.org?
[02:41] <ailo> I should have tried the latest -generic more than I did. I am unable to reproduce xruns at 64 frames/period at the moment. I't deja vu. Working like it did initially with 2.6.38-1
[02:42] <ScottL> that's a good question rlameiro , i have no idea
[02:42] <rlameiro> well, anyway, if that happens i am sure that ubuntustudio will have a boost
[02:42] <rlameiro> with documentation centralized, showed the way US wants it to be
[02:43] <rlameiro> and also if there is a respin after the "official" release :D
[02:43] <ailo> I think ubuntu wiki can do, if the documentation is just better organized
[02:43] <rlameiro> ubuntustudio - core (official release)
[02:44] <rlameiro> ubuntustudio - danger (respin)
[02:44] <ScottL> ailo, interesting :P
[02:44] <ailo> Can you believe I'm not getting a single xrun with -generic at 64 frames/period
[02:44] <rlameiro> ailo: interface?
[02:44] <ailo> This was not the case, just a couple of days ago
[02:44] <ScottL> ailo, part of me hopes it continues working well, part of me hopes that it bombs for you (so we should pursue -lowlatency)
[02:44] <ailo> rlameiro, builtin HDA
[02:45] <rlameiro> ailo: ohhh... not for me then
[02:45] <ailo> HDA intel
[02:45] <ailo> rlameiro, Don't think it matters which interface, as long as you don't have some specific hardware issues.
[02:45] <ScottL> ailo, i've used several dell machines (p4, 2.2 ghz) with onboard sound and gotten very stable 11 msec latencies :)
[02:45] <rlameiro> ailo: FireWire maters, a lot :D
[02:45] <ailo> My Sound Blaster card won't work well with any kernel
[02:46] <ScottL> really?!?!
[02:46] <rlameiro> and if you have 8 ins and 8 outs running at the same time... well, then we speak hardcore stuff :D
[02:46] <ScottL> that's what i used for a while before i got my delta
[02:46] <ailo> It's a very old Sound Blaster card. It doesn't even start at low latency settings
[02:46] <ScottL> ah
[02:46] <rlameiro> ailo: soundblaster never had good driver support in linux
[02:47] <rlameiro> the old ones where to closed by creative
[02:47] <ailo> rlameiro, I use 12 ins and outs with M-audio delta cards, but those are of course PCI
[02:47] <ScottL> ailo, rlameiro : i think currently that it would be too much work to put all documentation on the website and probably should just stick with the wiki for now
[02:47] <rlameiro> ailo: yeah.... its awesome. but with laptops i really need Firewire
[02:47] <ailo> rlameiro, holstein seems to have no problems with firewire. I would only expect those to have problems, who suffer from irq sharing, no?
[02:48] <ailo> Which, hopefully, 2.6.39 will redeem
[02:48] <rlameiro> ScottL: sure. But i dont se why not strating to "clone" sites on the process of reorganizing that ailo mentioned
[02:48] <ScottL> rlameiro, i like your idea of "ubuntu studio - danger" as a codename
[02:49] <rlameiro> for instance the jack documentation, when reorganized, cloned it to US-wiki
[02:49] <rlameiro> ScottL: neat name isnt it :D
[02:49] <rlameiro> we could try to pull more stuff to that respin
[02:49] <ScottL> rlameiro, where would you start the "clone" site?  i am presuming you would clone it back to the ubuntu wiki
[02:50] <rlameiro> maybe we should make sure the server where the respin is, is not on the us :D
[02:50] <rlameiro> ScottL: for instance, when one pages is worked on ubuntu wiki, after that we clone it to Ubuntu studio wiki
[02:51] <rlameiro> and maybe embedd some youtube videos showing it working etc
[02:51] <ScottL> oh, on wiki.ubuntustudio.org to be clone to
[02:51] <rlameiro> i dont think you can do that on the ubuntu wiki for instance
[02:51] <ScottL> right
[02:52] <rlameiro> so basically do it on ubuntu, and the stuff you cant do in ubuntu wiki, well do int in wiki.US.org
[02:52] <ScottL> the only thing i can think of that would not work well in that case would be the formating done on the wiki
[02:53] <ScottL> for example, = This is a Heading =    and  == This is a Sub-Heading ==
[02:53] <ScottL> we would need to manually strip that formating out and reformat however the drupal website needs it
[02:53] <ScottL> not that this can't be done, but it will not necessarily be automatic
[02:54] <ailo> rlameiro, Perhaps you will change your mind, if the documentation in the Ubuntu wiki is really nice and organized?
[02:54] <rlameiro> ScottL: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MoinMoin/Filter
[02:54]  * ailo is feeling pretty happy with the -generic at the moment. Would be good for others to give it a go as well.
[02:54] <rlameiro> if the wiki choosen is wikimedia of course
[02:55] <ailo> holstein, Do you have Natty installed still? Could you give the latest -generic a go?
[02:55] <holstein> ailo: sure
[02:55] <holstein> with FW?
[02:55] <rlameiro> ailo: I dont have nothing agains the ubuntu wiki, dont get me wrong.
[02:56] <rlameiro> we shouldnt forget theat the wiki is suposed to be a developers tool
[02:56] <rlameiro> help.ubuntu.com is for helping users
[02:57] <rlameiro> I think that that line could be crossed in a hipothetical ubuntustudio wiki
[02:57] <ailo> holstein, Yeah. Don't think a lot of people have been testing the -generic for a while
[02:57] <rlameiro> holstein: using Texas instruments chipset?>
[02:58] <holstein> rlameiro: whats my name! :)
[02:58] <holstein> im hoarding several PCI TI cards
[02:59] <holstein> ailo: its been a whil
[02:59] <holstein> e
[02:59] <holstein> let me run the updates
[02:59] <rlameiro> humm
[03:00] <rlameiro> I really need to buy my pcixpress mini card...
[03:00] <holstein> yeah, i got one of those too
[03:00] <holstein> manhattan brand
[03:00] <holstein> with TI
[03:01] <ailo> Haven't tried Mac or Windows for a while, but I don't think they can get 64 frames/period very easily. I really wouldn't have thought -generic would give us that.
[03:02] <rlameiro> ailo: they can. well at least they say they can, but not really :D
[03:02] <rlameiro> they do latency compensation. On mac seems possible. 
[03:03] <ScottL> rlameiro, another solution would be to use the drupal wiki module as well
[03:03] <rlameiro> ScottL: its always a solution
[03:03] <ScottL> ailo, awesome that you are feeling good with it, i need to update my natty install and play with it
[03:03] <rlameiro> we dont need to clone everything, just the Core stuff, more importnat to new users
[03:03] <ScottL> i will do that this week, i want to also test some of falktx's stuff
[03:04] <rlameiro> for the more advanced a pointer to ubuntu wiki should be provided
[03:04] <ailo> ScottL, It really turns things around, if it is consistent. 
[03:06] <ScottL> rlameiro, you are correct about wiki.u.c vs. help.u.c
[03:06] <ScottL> we tend to use wiki as an interchangeable term
[03:06] <ScottL> incorrectly i should add
[03:09] <ScottL> i'll go update my natty install as well (instead of playing minecraft)
[03:09] <holstein> hehe
[03:09] <holstein> ScottL: you've earned some minecraft time :)
[03:15] <ailo> Actually, I was trying out -generic 2.6.38-7. I'm updating too now, and the latest is 2.6.38-8
[03:20] <holstein> w0w 16 frames/period
[03:20] <holstein> 2 periods buffer
[03:21] <holstein> thats on lucid
[03:21] <holstein> with kernel 2.6.33-29-realtime :)
[03:21] <holstein> says .726 msec
[03:22] <ailo> holstein, I didn't know that was possible
[03:22] <holstein> not sure how much i would trust the stability of that running al the time though
[03:22] <holstein> let mre try running some things...
[03:22] <holstein> JAMin is the test reall
[03:22] <holstein> y
[03:22] <holstein> its *so* heavy
[03:24] <holstein> hehe
[03:24] <holstein> yeah, not optimal
[03:24] <holstein> let me try 64/3 though
[03:25] <holstein> im opening a decent sized session
[03:25] <holstein> 7 tracks
[03:25] <holstein> at 24 44.1
[03:25] <holstein> with lots of effects
[03:25] <holstein> and routing through JAMin
[03:25] <holstein> yeah, this seems stable
[03:26] <holstein> at 4.3ms
[03:27] <holstein> kinda
[03:27] <holstein> i get xruns from the UI
[03:27] <holstein> switching desktops while its playing
[03:27] <holstein> :/
[03:27] <holstein> oh well
[03:27] <holstein> thats why i have several JACK profiles
[03:28] <ailo> There are some programs I have noticed are not as reliable with jack
[03:28] <ailo> I just assume they are not well written, or something
[03:28] <holstein> maybe
[03:28] <holstein> JAMin is just heavy
[03:42] <ailo> Well, pretty much the same deal on 2.6.38-8 for me, using -generic. 2.9 ms latency, 64 frames/period
[03:44] <ScottL> holstein, yeah, jamin is real heavy
[03:44] <ScottL> when i was using the old dell p4 i could do everything i wanted basically...except when i was using jamin
[03:44] <ScottL> it alone at up all the cpu cycles
[03:45] <ScottL> ailo, good deal (getting the same good performance with 2.6.38-8)
[03:45] <ScottL> i'm doing partial upgrade on natty right now (after a few minutes of minecraft :P )
[03:45] <holstein> im still waiting
[03:45] <holstein> ....
[03:45] <holstein>  
[03:46] <ailo> Just the sound of the hard drive, when installing all those programs
[04:04] <ailo> Hmm, tried starting Hexter. Says: "jack-dssi-host" (No such file or directory)
[04:09] <holstein> :/
[04:10] <holstein> im finally about to restart here :)
[04:10] <holstein> ailo: 2.6.38-8?
[04:11] <ailo> holstein, Yep
[04:11] <holstein> -lowlatency right?
[04:11] <holstein> ailo: ^
[04:11] <ailo> holstein, I get the same results with -generic. Try that one
[04:11] <holstein> for some reason
[04:11] <holstein> i only see 2.6.37-9
[04:11] <holstein> -generic
[04:12] <holstein> does that sound right?
[04:12] <holstein> hmmm
[04:13] <ailo> holstein, No, should be 2.6.38-8
[04:13] <holstein> well, let me boot -lowlatency
[04:13] <holstein> and i'll look into why i didnt get the -generic kernel
[04:13] <ailo> holstein: Are you dual booting?
[04:13] <holstein> either installed or added to grub...
[04:14] <holstein> yeah, but i went out and ran update-grub
[04:14] <holstein> in lucid
[04:14] <holstein> that usually gets them
[04:14] <holstein> this is a confusing tripleboot actually...
[04:14] <ailo> update-grub should do it, but update-grub2 might be needed too. Should be done on the system that has the grub installed, though
[04:15] <holstein> well, it addedthat -lowlatency kernel
[04:15] <holstein> i might not have installed it somehow
[04:17] <ScottL> is 2.6.38 available for lucid?
[04:17] <ScottL> might be a pretty ignorant question
[04:17] <ailo> Apparently, installing hexter will not install one of it's dependencies: dssi-host-jack
[04:18] <ScottL> ailo, you should file a bug for that, get it put into the control file
[04:18] <ailo> ScottL, Not in the main repo
[04:18] <ScottL> oh yeah, you and holstein are getting from falktx's ppa aren't you?
[04:18] <ailo> ScottL, Not me
[04:19] <ailo> Anyway, we should not test on another release. Should test on natty
[04:19] <ScottL> oh...perhaps i misunderstood, what is not in the main repo?
[04:19] <ailo> ScottL, 2.6.38 for Lucid
[04:19] <holstein> yeah, not on the test installs
[04:19] <holstein> just for lucid
[04:19] <holstein> my maverick and natty are just buntu
[04:19] <holstein> for testing purposes
[04:20] <ScottL> ailo, right, that is what i thought :)  (2.6.38 not in the main repo for lucid)
[04:20] <holstein> ailo: looks great for -lowlatency
[04:20] <ScottL> ailo, but i can test some tomorrow night on natty
[04:20]  * ScottL is going upstairs to check on natty updates
[04:21] <ailo> holstein, I've had pretty much exactly the same results with -lowlatency all along. -generic has been up and down. Right now, it's the same as -lowlatency for me
[04:21] <holstein> woah, that unity bar
[04:21] <holstein> the launcher
[04:21] <holstein> its brutal now
[04:21] <ailo> Haven't tried that yet
[04:21] <ailo> holstein, Is it good?
[04:22] <holstein> i guess thats all opinion
[04:22] <holstein> its hiding in a really odd way
[04:24] <holstein> yeah, somehow -generic just got removed
[04:24] <holstein> the metapackage or whatever
[04:24] <holstein> im getting it now
[04:30] <holstein> ailo: you're not a fan of the XFCE idea?
[04:32] <ailo> holstein, I'm not auto-against it, but I don't think it's pointing towards the future, more so towards the past
[04:33] <holstein> yeah, it'll start at 16/2 with -generic
[04:33] <ailo> I think Ubuntu Studio should be on the forefront of technology, but not get crazy with system needs
[04:33] <holstein> let me try some things at 128/2
[04:33] <holstein> hmm
[04:33] <holstein> its xrunning
[04:34] <holstein> not as nice as -lowlatency was
[04:34] <holstein> i cant get by with letting it run at 128/2
[04:34] <holstein> without xruns :/
[04:34] <holstein> oh well
[04:34] <ailo> holstein: With firewire?
[04:34] <holstein> yup
[04:34] <holstein> in my setup
[04:34] <ailo> I think 128/2 is pretty good
[04:34] <holstein> im noticing -lowlatency being quite stable
[04:34] <holstein> but -generic not really doing the job
[04:35] <ailo> How about 64/2?
[04:35] <holstein> nah
[04:35] <holstein> same deal really
[04:35] <holstein> yeah
[04:35] <holstein> xrun right off the bat
[04:36] <holstein> as long as i dont do *anything*
[04:36] <ailo> holstein, So you get xruns at 128/2? I must have misunderstood
[04:36] <holstein> its stable
[04:36] <holstein> ailo: with -generic
[04:36] <holstein> with the -lowlatency
[04:36] <holstein> that seems usealbe
[04:36] <holstein> useable*
[04:38] <ailo> Well, let's hope 2.6.39 will be better.
[04:38] <holstein> hey, i found the system setting :)
[04:38] <holstein> unity is a lot like KDE for me right now
[04:38] <holstein> i cant find anything
[04:38] <holstein> and the UI is odd ;)
[04:40] <holstein> they still got time
[04:40] <holstein> its coming along great i think
[04:40] <holstein> its just not for me at all
[04:41] <holstein> ailo: what are your ideas for US UI ?
[04:43] <ailo> holstein, I just tried Gnome 3 a bit. Coming out today, my time
[04:43] <ailo> holstein, I think it's virtually the same as Gnome2, but with a different panel system
[04:45] <ailo> Maybe it will get some getting used to, using the UI differently. The UI is probably adapted to a wider range of hardware.
[04:45] <ailo> Like touch screens
[04:46] <holstein> ailo: on lucid?
[04:46] <holstein> did you add a ppa?
[04:46] <holstein> i like gnome
[04:46] <ailo> Gnome3 and Unity are young. They need to be tested and tried, and developed. For US, I think XFCE could be a nice transition
[04:47] <holstein> i think the idea is that xfce would be nice and light
[04:47] <holstein> but still theme-able
[04:47] <holstein> and modern feeling
[04:47] <holstein> and maybe the teams could colaborate a bit
[04:47] <ailo> Well, I don't feel it is as modern as it is light
[04:47] <ailo> Light is good
[04:48] <ailo> But, there are other systems that can be lighter than Ubuntu Studio. I don't think that should be the goal
[04:48] <holstein> i dont find it as bare-bones as LXDE
[04:48] <holstein> rather gnome-like in feel
[04:48] <ailo> I think the goal should be a stable, modern system. 
[04:48] <holstein> yeah
[04:48] <holstein> ailo: you think KDE?
[04:48] <holstein> like KXstudio?
[04:48] <ailo> Puredyne uses XFCE. It works really well, but I'd much rather use Gnome
[04:49] <ailo> holstein, Personally, I don't like KDE much better. 
[04:50] <holstein> yeah, i dont like it either
[04:50] <holstein> but i have to say
[04:50] <holstein> i think KDE4 is the most modern looking and feeling UI
[04:51] <ailo> holstein, I agree, that it looks modern, but I don't feel the functionality is really that much more modern
[04:52] <ailo> The widgets, I don't like
[04:52] <holstein> i dont like the idea of them
[04:52] <holstein> they look slick
[04:52] <holstein> ailo: there is something to be said for being a gnome3 shop
[04:53] <holstein> if folks are looking for gnome + ubuntu
[04:53] <holstein> and we have that
[04:53] <holstein> that would get a lot of folks to install US
[04:53] <holstein> just for taht reason
[04:53] <ailo> Fedora is going for Gnome3 with their next release
[04:53] <ailo> I would assume, Debian will too, but that will take some time
[04:54] <Kokito> howdy
[04:55] <holstein> Kokito: o/
[04:55] <Kokito> hey holstein 
[04:55] <holstein> ailo: as long as gnome3 is in the ubuntu repos
[04:55] <holstein> and is maintained
[04:55] <holstein> which, i would assume it will be
[04:56] <holstein> ailo: is unity out of the question?
[04:56] <holstein> we should probably think about that
[04:56] <ailo> holstein, I haven't yet use Unity enough.
[04:57] <ailo> holstein, If Unity works well, why not, I think
[04:57] <Kokito> I played with Unity a bit the other day, and I kind of liked it. there will be a learning curve, though
[04:57] <holstein> would be the path of least resistance i suppose
[05:02] <ailo> holstein, Either way, ubuntustudio-desktop will need some work
[05:03] <ailo> I think one of the reasons to go for XFCE was the possibility to get some more help
[05:04] <holstein> yeah
[05:04] <holstein> more help
[05:04] <holstein> and stability
[05:05] <holstein> less drastic changes
[05:05] <holstein> and xubuntu aint going anywhere
[05:07] <ailo> Gnome3 will probably not change too much, too fast, so there would only be a lot of work needed initially. Unity might change more rapidly.
[05:07] <ailo> Just guessing
[05:09] <holstein> sounds about right
[05:10] <ailo> Either we decide we can do the work during next release, if we choose to use one of those, or we take what could be an easier route with XFCE, and wait with deciding on Gnome3 or Unity. 
[05:11] <holstein> yeah, maybe we could talk about how long the XFCE thing would be
[05:11] <ailo> There might be other problems too. I have a problem with nouveau drivers on one of my computers
[05:11] <holstein> if we could just try it for 11.10
[05:12] <ailo> Gnome3 starts on it, but I get corrupted graphics
[05:13] <ailo> Could be a lot of that initially. It's not fun for a lot of users, if they get bugs like that
[05:13] <holstein> well, im not opposed to looking at gnome3
[05:13] <holstein> but, so far, i really like the idea of XFCE
[05:13] <holstein> for lightness
[05:14] <holstein> and customization
[05:14] <holstein> and the extra help we could be getting
[05:22] <holstein> i gotta crash
[05:22] <holstein> GN all..
[05:25] <Kokito> gn holstein 
[13:24] <ailo> abogani: It would seem that -generic is working quite well again, but I asked holstein to try it with his firewire device. According to him, he gets a lot better performance from -lowlatency.
[13:25] <ailo> On an updated system, like mine
[13:25] <abogani> ailo: ack
[13:26] <scott-work> ailo: ralf talks about having posted to the mailing list his tests for the kernel: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-users/2011-April/007437.html
[13:26] <scott-work> i thought you might be interested in that
[13:27] <scott-work> ailo: also, i thought if this will have awake this morning in bed before my alarm went off...
[13:27] <scott-work> we should probably include a troubleshooting section ofthe documetnation for the most common problems (like you mentioned before)
[13:27] <scott-work> so maybe   1. intro
[13:27] <scott-work> 2. instal
[13:27] <scott-work> 3 simple tasks
[13:27] <scott-work> 4 advanced tasks
[13:27] <scott-work> 5. troubleshooting
[13:28] <scott-work> although i would like to find a better way to parse between all the common tasks in a/v/g than just the "3. simple tasks" and "4. advanced tasks"
[13:28] <scott-work> i would like to find something a little more elegant and instructional
[13:30] <ailo> scott-work, I don't think we need to include all that many tasks. I think it's enough with one or two typical examples for audio, the same for graphics and video.
[13:32] <ailo> It would be great to have a demo for those too
[13:32] <ailo> Or, videos as you have planned
[13:33] <ailo> I don't see a difference between simple and advanced tasks. 
[13:33] <ailo> More, for a rock song I would do this, for an electronica song I would do that
[13:34] <ailo> Or, to create icons, I might use Inskape, and so on
[13:34] <scott-work> you're right, i probably need to splend some time in front of a dry-erase board and list what i think should be in there and then see what the organization fits them
[13:35] <scott-work> i also realized this morning in bed that i should be followign the workflows :P
[13:35] <scott-work> that shoudl help quite a bit
[13:36] <ailo> scott-work, We don't need to include too much reference on single programs, like Ardour and Qtractor. We can add links to documentation on those. We do however need to explain how to set up the system manually, I think, even if it isn't necessary, just as reference.
[13:37] <scott-work> hmmm, maybe we should add manual setup to either installing or add another section for setup then
[13:37] <scott-work> ailo: i absolutely agree this should be included even if it is automated - having that reference could be hugely important later on if something changes
[13:37] <ailo> Jack needs explanation of course.
[13:38] <ailo> scott-work, About ralphs tests, it seems they were made a long time ago, and would not be relevant today
[13:39] <scott-work> oh :(  okay..
[13:40] <scott-work> maybe the "setup" part could be an appendix (don't know, just talking out loud)
[13:46] <abogani> ailo: IMHO You are wasting your time.
[13:46] <abogani> about ralf I meant.
[13:46] <ailo> abogani, About -lowlatency?
[13:46] <abogani> No about Ralf.
[13:49] <ailo> Perhaps Ralf will change his mind with 2.6.39 :P. Would be nice if more people were testing the kernels.
[13:52] <ailo> scott-work, The less we need to inform the user, the better, right?
[13:52] <scott-work> abogani: lol :)
[13:52]  * scott-work really did LOL
[13:54] <scott-work> abogani: ralf seems knowledgeable, but he also seems a little like he has suffered some injury by the universe and is slightly either angry or paranoid that we don't all do exactly what he says or thinks like him
[13:54] <scott-work> but that is just my opinion (for what it is worth) based on reading a fraction of his emails on the list
[13:55]  * abogani agrees
[14:11] <scott-work> for the number of problems ralf reports i wonder what kind of hardware he is using
[14:11] <scott-work> maybe not the "number of problems" but perhaps the "severity of problems"
[14:27] <abogani> very graves I think if only ps2 mouse movement can interfere on his computer performance. 
[14:59] <scott-work> abogani:  agreed
[15:05] <ailo> scott-work, For every creative task, I think there's basic things and then more and more advanced topics. For example, recording a rock song. First things first, how to record. The deeper you get into the production, the more advanced it gets. Changing tempos, using effects..
[15:05] <ailo> scott-work, Finally, you can get into things like bitrate and samplerate and things like that.
[15:06] <ailo> Just understanding a compressor may not be easy for a beginner, but again, that may not be something we need to teach the user
[15:06] <ailo> But, we can always provide links to every topic we can think of
[15:07] <scott-work> sure (links), i think that is a good idea :)
[15:07] <scott-work> i believe we will need to keep a clear eye on what we consider the purpose of this documention....
[15:08] <scott-work> is it to teach others to use ubuntu studio or is it to teach others how to record music
[15:08] <scott-work> where do things like compressors fall into those categories?
[15:08] <scott-work> we should certainly educate users on how to add plugins
[15:08] <scott-work> do we want to explain how compressors work?
[15:08] <ailo> scott-work, I think it's a nice idea to include examples on how to use Ubuntu Studio. I like that, it's a very quick way to show what you can do with it. But, perhaps we don't need to dive that deep with every example
[15:09] <scott-work> should we give some example settings for a typical compressor for vocals, or acoustic guitar?
[15:09] <scott-work> i'm certainly not against linking to a good explanation for compressor if we know of one
[15:10] <scott-work> but i also know it's easy to get sucked into trying to explain everything as well :P
[15:10] <ailo> scott-work, I wouldn't want to spend time on things like that tbh. Rather, I would give a link to somewhere where audio production is a topic
[15:11] <ailo> scott-work, I think the key is, try spending time on those things that are Ubuntu Studio specific, and try using other resources as much as possible for those things, that aren't
[15:11] <scott-work> ailo: agreed :)
[15:11] <ailo> But, I do think giving some examples on how to do different things is a great idea
[15:12] <scott-work> i would really like to do that as well, along with some typical settings for plugins
[15:12] <scott-work> i haven't liked some of the "help" i've received for these things, which is usually "play with it and use the settings you like"
[15:13] <scott-work> and i say that i dont' like it because there are hundreds of plugins for hundreds of purposes and each one has hundreds of settings
[15:13] <scott-work> i can't possibly play with enough, contiguously enough, to really wrap my head around it
[15:13] <scott-work> it's like eating a whale, you can't do it all at once or really even comprehend what all is involved
[15:13] <scott-work> you need to do it one bite at a time
[15:14] <ailo> scott-work, Audio engineering is a very big topic, I think. I've spent quite a lot of time studying and reading as well as recording and mixing. It takes a lot of time to learn it
[15:14] <scott-work> so if a typical setting for a compressor for vocals can be made available as a starting point, then that makes the proccess so muche easier
[15:14] <ailo> When I started out, around 2001-2002, there wasn't all that much to find tutorial wise on the net at the time. I'm sure the situation has improved.
[15:15] <scott-work> ailo: i bought a book (well, a couple) that have helped somewhat, although i need to reread and apply some of the stuff i've read and learned
[15:15] <scott-work> i'd say that fault lies more with me than the books in this instance ;)
[15:15] <scott-work> ailo: i'm sure it has, but i haven't look on the net in a while for these items
[15:15] <ailo> scott-work, Often they start explaining too much in detail, before you get to use and experience some settings first
[15:16] <scott-work> ailo: and i've often found that there is too much information if you are not using it in a practical way, day to day
[15:16] <ailo> scott-work, Also, just getting used to hearing things takes a lot of time, at least it did for me
[15:16] <scott-work> ailo:  absolutely
[15:17] <ailo> scott-work, I like practical. I like detailed reference too, but I always want to try some examples first
[15:17] <scott-work> i have had a few, small breakthroughs with some things like how reverd or delay can make the vocals sit in front of the music, in it, or behind it
[15:18] <scott-work> but the main thing was that i was completely ignorant that reverb or delay could even do that!
[15:18] <scott-work> i still dont' know how it all works thoroughly
[15:19] <ailo> scott-work, Also, by eq'ing the reverb or delay, you can make it blend in more. Take away some of the top, so it won't sound as near as the main signal
[15:19] <scott-work> heh, eq is so subjective that i don't even want to consider doing it :P
[15:20] <scott-work> in this case, i'm extremely like you, i want some practical experience or a really good tutorial to say, move this fader to 10khz, notice how the sound changed ?
[15:20] <ailo> Yes, and not only that, but why you want it to change
[15:22] <ailo> EQ: add punch to a bass or bass drum, by adding gain at 50-80 Hz, take away some muddy bass from around 150-300 Hz, add bass plectrum sound at 3000 Hz, add the click to the kick at 3000-5000 and perhaps some presence at the highes frequencies.
[15:24] <ailo> I think there 's a lot of that type of info these days.
[17:40] <ailo> scott-work, I wonder from where abogani gets the source in the first place, before he patches it and uploads it..
[17:41] <ailo> I believe this is the main source for Ubuntu next release http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-oneiric.git;a=summary
[17:51] <scott-work> ailo: i'm not sure, but my understanding is that it is directly from ubuntu
[17:51] <scott-work> ailo:  so i would presume the source you found may be it
[20:38] <ailo> scott-work_, So, I was going through what you wrote up. I'm a little puzzled by the last bit
[20:38] <scott-work_> ailo: which part?
[20:38] <ailo> cd ..
[20:38] <ailo> ls (verify .changes name)
[20:38] <ailo> dput ppa:<username>/<ppaname> <packagename.changes>
[20:38] <scott-work_> oh, the kernel stuff
[20:38] <ailo> cd to the main folder?
[20:38] <scott-work_> hold on...let me me look
[20:39] <ailo> I'm trying out 2.6.39 kernel, without aboganis patch, just for fun
[20:39] <scott-work_> okay, to run debuild you need to be in the source directory
[20:39] <scott-work_> but
[20:39] <scott-work_> to find the .changes file you need to be one directory UP
[20:39] <scott-work_> hence the cd ..
[20:39] <scott-work_> that pulls you out of the source directory back to whatever directory you stored all this mess in
[20:40] <scott-work_> i like to "ls" to see what files are there
[20:40] <scott-work_> you may have run this multiple times and might have multiple .changes files
[20:40] <scott-work_> you want to verify that you are sending the correct one to your ppa
[20:40] <ailo> Right. I think I see it now
[20:40] <scott-work_> also, i like to copy the correct name by highlighting and right click/copy so this reduces the clutter of file names to sort through
[20:40] <ailo> linux_2.6.39-0_source.changes
[20:41] <scott-work_> oh good :)
[20:41] <ailo> That should be what I upload, right?
[20:41] <scott-work_> yes
[20:41] <scott-work_> i think this is a part of packaging and building that people have trouble understanding
[20:41] <scott-work_> you are not uploading the entire file again
[20:41] <scott-work_> you are only uploaded any differences (or delta) in your file compared to the original file
[20:41] <ailo> I see
[20:42] <scott-work_> which is why everyone gets so wonky (rightly so) about the orig.tar.gz files
[20:42] <ailo> So, in launchpad, all of the Ubuntu source is already there?
[20:42] <scott-work_> if you dont' start with the same base original file the diffs get mad crazy
[20:42] <scott-work_> ailo: i presume so if you started with alessio's work
[20:43] <ailo> I'm just trying the main kernel source for now. I will try to find out how to patch it later
[20:43] <scott-work_> ailo: then i would certainly presume the original source file is there :)
[20:44] <scott-work_> but i think dput is pretty smart  (or launchpad is) because i think it wille even upload the source in some cases
[20:44] <ailo> This will be my first upload to my PPA. Maybe not such a good idea to upload that kernel yet. Don't think I will install it on my system anyway
[20:44] <scott-work_> although i'm not exactly sure which cases it might or might not
[20:45] <scott-work_> ailo: you can always make another ppa for testing
[20:45] <ailo> It's called testing, so hopefully people realize that
[20:45] <scott-work_> i took abogani 's advice and made one called "broken" to actively discourage people from using it
[20:46] <ailo> That's a good name for a PPA
[20:46] <ailo> scott-work_, Hmm, I wonder if it was a good idea to change the name of the version, like you suggest on your scratchpad.
[20:47] <scott-work_> ailo: do you mean removing "-ubuntu1"?
[20:47] <ailo> scott-work_, Yes
[20:48] <ailo> scott-work_, Does it take a while, before the building starts? I see it as pending at the moment
[20:49] <ailo> https://launchpad.net/~ailo.at/+archive/testing/+packages
[20:49] <scott-work_> alessio was quite emphatic about change the version, he mentioned it to me several times
[20:49] <scott-work_> ailo: yes, the build times are dependent on several factors, including what else is in the queue and what importance you stuff has to others
[20:50] <scott-work_> if the queue is already full, you have to wait
[20:50] <scott-work_> if you are almost ready to build (by time) but a security build with more importance comes through, you will end up waiting
[20:51] <scott-work_> i've had less than an hour to build then came back and found out i was days out from building because other stuff was apparently pushed in front of me
[20:51] <ailo> scott-work_, I see. They score the builds.
[20:51] <scott-work_> https://launchpad.net/~ailo.at/+archive/testing/+buildjob/2431896  look for the build score
[20:51] <scott-work_> doh
[20:52] <ailo> Well, I can wait
[20:53] <scott-work_> what's weird is that i don't see an estimated start time though :/
[20:53] <scott-work_> usually it says "15 minutes" or "2 hours" or "April 7"
[20:53] <ailo> scott-work_, rncbc was testing the kernel before and said that the rtirq script worked out of the box
[20:53] <scott-work_> sweet :)
[20:54] <ailo> But, I don't know exactly what that means. Hopefully it's enough just to install the script
[22:09] <ailo> scott-work_, I added the bug I mentioned yesterday about Hexter. http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hexter/+bug/752950
[22:09] <ailo> I noticed that people sometimes want someone to confirm the bug
[22:18] <scott-work_> the only natty install i have is ubuntu studio which already has hexter and the dssi thingie as well
[22:18] <scott-work_> i can try removing both and see what happens and then report this in the bug
[22:18] <scott-work_> (and then reinstall both)
[22:18] <ailo> scott-work_, Uninstall both, and then just install hexter. 
[22:19] <scott-work_> aye
[22:20] <scott-work_> going home