JanCdoes anybody know what nicks the "OMG Ubuntu"-people are using on IRC ?  (assuming they are on IRC...?)00:26
Pendulumhumphreybc is humphreybc00:27
Pendulumdunno past that00:27
nhandlerJanC: They have #omg!ubuntu! and #omg!ubuntu!ops . You could look at the user lists to find the people you need00:30
nhandlerWe can hear you jcastro :)03:16
nigelbheh, everyone's poking poor paultag :)04:20
duanedesignakgraner: kazam is another app other then gtk-recordmydektop that i have used04:55
paultagthanks you guy06:58
paultaggame was rough, I'm super bumed06:58
nigelbpaultag: We all love you :)06:58
paultaglove you too. Well, it's 2 AM and I'm pretty drunk, Got ya'lls text, one love!06:58
nigelbOMG OMGOMG07:05
nigelbLast night was my first year as Ubuntu member :)07:05
pleia2happy anniversary :)07:05
duanedesignhmm, mine 'expires' this October. What happens then? Do you have to go before the membership board again?07:20
pleia2no, it's self-renewing07:20
pleia2you just renew it for another two years07:20
duanedesignBT membership needs to be self renewing07:22
pleia2yeah, I wish it was :\07:22
pleia2but for BT they want proof of sustained involvement07:22
duanedesignill mention it and see07:23
nigelbmorning folks07:56
dholbachgood morning08:14
nigelbI'm not a lady gaga fan, but.. http://www.junauza.com/2011/04/lady-gaga-goes-gaga-over-ubuntu.html08:15
pleia2oh no, dholbach waking up means it's way past my bedtime08:15
pleia2morning dholbach :)08:15
dholbachhey pleia208:15
* dholbach hugs pleia208:15
* pleia2 hugs dholbach 08:16
nigelbbah, april fools joke and I fll for it08:16
nigelbpleia2: heh08:16
AlanBellmorning all08:19
nigelbhey AlanBell08:19
AlanBelllooking forward to UDS nigelb?08:19
nigelbAlanBell: I dunno, did you see my later posts?08:19
AlanBellwell I hope you get there08:22
nigelbMe too :)08:22
AlanBellthe dinner on Thursday looks good http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/meet-daniela/08:23
AlanBellanyone going to UDS is encouraged to join in with that one08:24
* AlanBell isn't going though08:24
JanCnigelb: in the Netherlands there *is* a well-known singer & TV host in the IRC channels, so it could have been true...   ;)08:25
nigelbJanC: NICE08:25
JanCactually, she's in #ubuntu-women too08:29
jussiI had a fairly well known singer from iceland over last night :D09:08
jussigood morning czajkowski!09:08
czajkowskijussi: howdy09:08
=== daker_ is now known as daker
czajkowskiso did not sleep well at all last night09:31
popeymorning all09:50
czajkowskipopey: ello, any luck with the mini9 ?09:55
popeyhonestly, not touched it yet.10:03
popeywill take a look tonight10:03
popeyit glared at me as I left the house this morning10:03
czajkowskino bother10:06
jussiczajkowski: hows the back treating you? any better today?10:10
czajkowskigod bit better thanks10:10
czajkowskia few days of just lying down and not moving has helped10:10
jussiczajkowski: excellent, hope it continues to improve.10:11
czajkowskime too thanks10:11
popeywonder if we can get jcastro to wear a streaming head-cam at UDS so we can all follow along with what sessions he's in :)10:16
jussipopey: that would be epic :D10:16
jussisigh... and this ubuntu server image doesnt work for me. /me redownloads :(10:17
AlanBellakgraner: ping10:46
jussiAlanBell: if she isnt asleep now she should be :P10:50
AlanBellyeah I know10:50
akgranerAlanBell, pong10:52
AlanBellgood morning akgraner10:52
akgranermorning :-)10:52
akgranerstill working on the good part ;-p10:53
akgranerwhat's up?10:53
AlanBellI have done some updates to onboard that I am trying to get through as a UI freeze exception (although I don't really know what I am doing with that)10:53
AlanBelljust wondered if that was going to mess up screenshots for the book or anything10:54
AlanBellgoing from http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/oldonboard.png10:54
AlanBellto http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/awesomeonboard.png or something like that10:54
* akgraner looks10:55
AlanBelland possibly with the letters in the centre of the keycaps if someone can help me do that (hint hint people)10:55
akgranerI don't think it will, but I just made a note of it to check when I do the final review...:-)10:56
nigelbAlanBell: awesome onboard is awesome10:58
JanCalternatively: it might be good to add something about a11y to the book ☺10:58
akgranerJanC I'll mention something to the editors for Edition 710:59
akgranerI mean publisher not editor grrrr11:00
popeybug 74966011:17
duanedesign'lo all11:39
dakerhey kim0 kimos.com seems to be down12:07
kim0daker: yes it seems so indeed .. I don't directly control it, so will need some time to figure out what has happened12:08
jussihehe, did anyone realise UDS ends on friday the 13th.... :P14:16
Picidun dun dunnnnn14:19
* nhandler didn't even realize we had a Friday the 13th coming up14:20
nigelboh boi14:23
jussiUDS takes place on Monday 9th - Friday 13th May from 9.00am - 6.00pm each day.14:23
tsimpsonthere are 3 next year14:24
tsimpsonin January, April and July14:25
jussiooh, my mums birthday will be on the 13th next year then.14:26
jussifriday the 13th14:26
jussi(its on the 13th every year :P)14:26
jcastroI just don't get it15:00
jcastrodoes anyone think I'm being unreasonable here?15:00
popeywell, my perspective is that "How-to" guides should not be in the forums, but nobody listens to me15:05
nhandlerThe forum also tends to rank very well in google search results (especially the archive), so I often find answers burried in there. Many of the answers that I find are really not appropriate for the wiki. I do agree that guides/howtos should be moved to the wiki or something similar. I also feel that anytime you are following advice on the forum or IRC or anything like that, you should always be cautious if you ...15:11
nhandler... don't know the user giving the help15:11
PiciBut similar to that, contributors to the wiki aren't vetted in advance etiher.15:12
popeydoesnt matter15:17
popeywiki is editable15:17
popeyso crack can be fixed15:17
jcastrothe wiki being broken is another problem15:20
jcastrotrue, it sucks and doesn't help the cause15:21
jcastrothough I don't want to slight the ndiswrapper person's work, because it looks substantial15:21
jcastroeven though all that does is break people's stuff15:21
jcastroand the real answer is "go spend $20 on a new dongle"15:22
jcastrobut whatever, at least the person is keeping it up to date15:22
jcastro"I have changed my mind on this topic. I think that the most important thing is to grow & optimise the Ubuntu wiki."15:30
jcastrothe second thing I want to delete. :)15:30
akgranerhehe  - I have such a love hate relationship with wiki pages15:34
* JFo loves to hate them15:37
duanedesignjcastro: i tried to come to your defense in that thread on the forum15:39
jcastroI think everyone needs to collectively realize (and this is project wide) that deleting things can be just as useful as writing them15:40
duanedesignjcastro: definetly if the info is worth keeping it is worth moving to a resource that can be maintained15:41
duanedesignjcastro: not only the wiki but I have my BOUCFT projrct. It tales the best of the forums and puts it in DocBook format viewable by Yelp15:42
akgranerwhat is a "bamfdaemon" cause whatever it is it keeps crashing...:-/15:47
* akgraner goes to look it up :-)15:47
jcastroakgraner: it's a window matcher15:49
jcastrojust submit the crasher and mark it unprivate15:49
jcastrotons of fixes tomorrow folks!15:49
duanedesignakgraner: \o/15:49
jcastroever crash I had yesterday was a dupe or already fixed upstream15:49
akgranerand I learned (probably something you all already knew) that I can have Chromium open on startup with all the websites I have been manually opening everyday..like poof magic there it is :-)  I'm super happy :-)15:49
duanedesignakgraner: you are going to be making some screencasts?15:50
akgranerjcastro, awesome :-)15:50
akgranerduanedesign, I can :-)  I have a ton of them to make for the Ubuntu book...so by release I should be good or at least acceptable at making them15:51
duanedesignakgraner: i  just saw it mentioned earlier. I wnt to make an effort to increase the screecast team and the amount of screencasts being made15:52
akgranerthe barnes and noble version of the book with come with an extra cd of howto's :-)15:52
duanedesignakgraner: so if you do make some I would love to put them up on the screencast team resources like screencasts.ubuntu.com and the YouTube site15:53
akgranerduanedesign, I'll send them your way once I have the screencasts done15:53
* akgraner makes a note to do that15:53
duanedesignthank you.If you have any question, or ai can help ley mw know :)15:53
akgranerduanedesign, sweet  - thanks!15:55
duanedesignakgraner: also if you have any trouble with gtkrecordmydesktop or kazam I have a sceencasting script that i use15:56
duanedesigni had issues with screen 'tearing' and audio not lining up15:56
jcastro<3 recordmydesktop15:58
* popey stabs recordmydesktop15:58
popeyneeds fixing badly15:58
akgranerduanedesign, what does the script do?  I am so new to this..:-/16:11
akgraneroh wow - digging the new Hinder CD  - All American Nightmare...16:16
akgranersorry jono Hinder just ousted Severed Fifth from my playlist today ;-)16:17
dakerWoaa Commodore 64x with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS16:21
jcastroakgraner: ugh crap, openweek16:31
akgraneryep :-)16:31
akgranerI'm working on that after 4pm today16:31
akgranerwell according to my calendar anyway16:32
jcastrook, I AM ON IT!16:35
Pendulumpaultag: so the good news from last night's baseball game is that I'm not going to force you to quit school and start traveling with them as their lucky fan :P17:33
dholbachok my friends - I call it a day17:36
dholbachsee you all tomorrow - hugs17:36
akgranerCheck out Project Harmony :-) http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/Project-Harmony-Launches-Today17:53
* AlanBell wonders if the "gobby is sub-optimal/etherpad would be better" conversation is actually going to go anywhere18:13
macoAlanBell: has anyone gone over etherpad with orca yet?18:14
PendulumI think Luke commented on that thread18:18
macoi think he said a webapp will never beat a desktop app18:20
AlanBellmy desktop is behaving badly at the moment, but I did have orca reading etherpad reasonably well18:20
macoi somehow doubt all the ajax hints that should be in there are there in etherpad18:20
Pendulumprobably not18:20
Pendulumhe did try etherpad at one point18:20
Pendulumit wasn't horrible18:20
Pendulumgoogle docs is pretty much unuseable18:21
AlanBellthe point to note is that the new gobby does not work with orca anyway18:21
macooh ew18:22
=== daker is now known as daker_
AlanBell orca is behaving badly on my desktop at the moment18:25
AlanBellhowever I think it can read etherpad content just fine, however echo by word does not seem to work18:25
AlanBellcharacter by character works fine if you have key echos on18:26
AlanBellthere is never going to be a perfect multi-cursor editor because you can't keep a mental map of the state of the document18:27
jcastrook so it's feature-equivalent18:32
jcastrothey both suck?18:32
czajkowskijcastro: the ask Ubunut lense keeps crashing18:32
jcastroczajkowski: OHRLY18:32
czajkowskishould I report the bug or is it known18:32
jcastroczajkowski: does the apport thing fire off?18:32
czajkowskiyeah but I just closed it18:33
jcastrook holla at me when it goes off again18:33
AlanBelljcastro: etherpad is OK with orca, especially for reading18:34
jcastroAlanBell: if you update the thread with your findings I'll poke again for a decision18:35
czajkowskijcastro: it's when I restart the machine18:35
jcastroczajkowski: oh18:36
AlanBellI don't think I can post to -devel18:36
jcastrois it the lens or the unity something service?18:36
jcastroAlanBell: you can it'll just be moderated18:36
czajkowskihold on and let me restart jcastro and then I'll have more info18:36
czajkowskihmm didnt crash this time18:38
czajkowskioh it did18:39
czajkowskithere we go18:39
czajkowskithe problem cannot be reported18:39
czajkowskithis is not a genuine Ubuntu package18:39
czajkowskijcastro: ^^^18:40
jcastrois there a way to read that18:41
jcastroone sec18:41
jcastrook do this18:41
jcastrois there something in /var/crash18:42
jcastrolike a .crash file for it?18:42
czajkowskilet me go and see18:43
czajkowskijcastro: there is a _lib_unity-place-askubuntu_unity-askubuntu-daemon.1000.crash18:44
jcastrofile a bug on lp:askubuntu-lens and attach it please18:44
jcastrostefano is on german time so he might not get to it today18:45
jcastroczajkowski: I believe that's our first crasher!18:45
czajkowskijcastro: not sure how to attach that file though ...18:45
jcastrothere is an attachment  button on the bottom of the bug form18:45
jcastrolike for screenshots and stuff18:45
czajkowskiso ubuntu-bug askubuntu-lens?18:45
jcastroI don't think it will let you do that18:46
jcastrosince it's from like a ppa18:46
jcastrowe go old school!18:46
AlanBellcan someone else try connecting to gobby.ubuntu.com please18:46
jcastroczajkowski: lunching, be back in 20 to check up!18:47
AlanBellgah, never mind, wrong version of gobby18:47
czajkowskijcastro: done18:49
AlanBellactually gobby-0.5 does work OK with orca18:52
AlanBellin Natty18:53
senseWarning: watch out with todays udev update for Natty, it has a risk of making your system unbootable.18:54
czajkowskiI need to explain to loco teams I am not shipit18:55
czajkowskihmm alt tab kills my sessions18:56
czajkowskithis really is not my week18:57
JanCIIRC there is a bug report about "alt tab kills compiz" somewhere18:59
czajkowskidamn annoying bug19:00
JanCI suppose it's difficult to debug too, as it only happens sometimes19:00
JanCpfff, the combined-application-launcher-and-window-switcher-and-locations-thing is clearly not designed for people who use a lot of applications...  :-/19:04
AlanBelljcastro: email held in moderation19:14
jcastroAlanBell: they stay on top of  that queue pretty well, we should be good19:15
AlanBellit includes "Does anyone know whether the "delete a page brings down the whole server" issue has actually been fixed on gobby.ubuntu.com? Heh, scrub that, just tested it! Someone might like to file an RT to get the server turned back on."19:15
czajkowskireading the -meeting now19:16
AlanBellwhich I think makes the point quite well :)19:16
czajkowskidiscssing unity being the default19:16
czajkowskiI really enjoy the TB meetings19:21
jcastroit's important to note that the systray was going away in natty anyway19:21
czajkowskijcastro: if you want any more info on the askUbuntu issue let me know19:24
jcastroczajkowski: I need to wait to see what stefano says19:25
jcastrothis is all greek to me19:25
czajkowskiwelcome to my world :)19:25
JFodiscussion going on in -meeting right now about who decides if we keep unity for release and when do they make that determination.19:26
czajkowskiit's interesting19:26
czajkowskiTB says it's the reelease team possibly19:26
czajkowskiand release team seems to think it's ready19:26
czajkowskiit's not flipping ready19:26
* czajkowski mutters19:26
* czajkowski goes and finds some chocolate 19:26
jcastroI think people are mixing up ready with what they think it's supposed to do19:28
czajkowskijcastro: true, possibly19:28
czajkowskithere are some very annoying quirks though jcastro19:28
jcastronew fixes today!19:29
jcastroczajkowski: true, but gnome 2.x had quirks too19:29
=== sense_ is now known as sense
czajkowskijcastro: I could alt tab in gnome19:29
czajkowskiI do that now and things crash and I've to restart ...19:29
czajkowskialt tabbing between applications is a given19:29
popeyset your expectations lower19:30
popeyalt-tab has been crashy for me for a long while :)19:30
czajkowskitis the wise old popey19:30
popeymy best mate may be coming along to the beerex19:31
czajkowskiit's gonna be a funn one19:31
czajkowskitrying to get lanky in surrey to come along too19:31
jcastroI do agree with kees19:32
jcastroI don't know why we mess with the classic session19:33
jcastroshould have left it ... classic19:33
PendulumI don't understand the messing with classic, either19:34
Pendulumespecially as someone who *can't* use Unity19:34
jcastroI think I'll bring that up in -desktop post meeting19:34
Pendulumreally what this means is that I'm not going to upgrade and possibly can't upgrade for another year19:34
czajkowskiPendulum: point that out in -meeting ?19:35
Pendulum(I can't run 3D, but I need accessibility support and I have a suspicion that 2D a11y support won't be in for Oneiric19:35
Pendulumczajkowski: decision has already been made that accessibility profiles will default to 'Classic'19:36
jcastrohey JFo19:37
jcastrogather your 1990's linux users19:37
jcastroI am going to ask this question on -desktop19:37
JFoI'll see who I can find19:39
Pendulummy biggest complaint with Unity as default is idealogical, not technical. But I don't understand why Classic was messed with19:42
JFoon the plus side they are planning to do a full on review with release and desktop it looks like19:42
JFoI like that mdz isn't settling with just rick's opinion19:43
JFoI think that is the correct thing19:43
PendulumI do too19:43
* czajkowski has a lot of respect for mdz he balances things out19:44
czajkowskiand goes to a lot of rounds to find out the right information before making any decsision19:44
Pendulumyes, definitely19:45
popeyPendulum: idealogically how?19:45
PendulumI don't think that a distro that claims that one of its core values is accessibility should have a default desktop that's not accessible19:46
jcastroJFo: ok I'm going to see what rick posts.19:47
jcastroJFo: and also, we RTM in 21 days19:47
jcastroit is a bit late19:47
sensePendulum: GNOME Panel was restored to the app/places/system menus setup again today.19:47
jcastroeven if DX is landing /animations/ today19:47
Pendulumyes, 'Classic' is, but if you can't use the default you're sending the message that users who need accessibility are 2nd class19:47
jcastrosense: wait what? link?19:47
PendulumI'm scared about Oneiric when Classic goes completely away19:47
Pendulumsince I haven't seen any discussion of how Unity 2D will be accessible19:48
sensejcastro: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/1:2.32.1-0ubuntu6.219:48
jcastrosense: man. awesome.19:49
senseToday was a horrible day with regard to the updates though: branding-ubuntu came crashing down, taking aptd with it, interrupting udev's udpate process without me knowing it, which made my system unbootable until Stéphane told me to run dpkg --configure -a in chroot.19:50
czajkowskisense: you starting uni over in the UK in september ?19:50
senseczajkowski: If everything goes right, I have to be there at 30 september in the afternoon!19:50
czajkowskisense: which college?19:50
senseczajkowski: King's College. ;)19:51
czajkowskiwhere is that ?19:51
senseczajkowski: King's Parade, Cambridge19:51
czajkowskisense: well done and best of luck with it19:52
Pendulumsense: congrats!19:52
AlanBellawesome sense19:52
jcastrosense: are you going to get all english on us?19:53
sensejcastro: I will talk to you in the most posh posh I can come up with in a few years!19:53
AlanBellsense: /join #ubuntu-uk19:53
Pendulumsense: you know AlanBell is going to try to pull you into the UK loco, right? ;-)19:53
czajkowskiit's ok I'm still keeping my Irish accent over here :)19:53
senseAlanBell: I will certainly take a look, but currently I'm too busy leading Ubuntu NL :)19:53
AlanBellresistance is futile19:53
Pendulumand, it seems he has already started while I was typing :P19:53
senseAlanBell: Lets do a William III here: personal union of LoCos!19:54
czajkowskithis did make my day today though  https://identi.ca/notice/7057720019:54
Pendulumczajkowski: that's because you're awesome!19:55
senseczajkowski: Reminds me of remarks from my classmates recently who said they really liked Scottish and Irish accents. Be proud of it!19:55
czajkowskiPendulum: :)19:55
czajkowskisense: :)19:55
AlanBellwell King Billy did like Orange19:56
macoi just learned while at uds orlando who the heck William & Mary are19:56
macoi did not figure out WHY they have a uni inthe US though19:56
senseAlanBell: A bit too much, he used his position as stadholder not to benefit the Dutch state, but to grab the English and Scottish thrones19:56
Pendulummaco: they chartered the college19:57
macothey're that recent?19:57
sensemaco: 168819:57
sensewas the invasion19:57
senseWilliam II died in 170219:57
senseWilliam III19:57
macoi guess i tend to forget anything was even going on in the US pre-1700 other than umm...dying of strange new diseases the invaders had never seen19:58
macoso...you're saying there were unis founded on this continent prior to 1700?19:58
Pendulummaco: 1792 for William & Mary19:58
Pendulumerr.. 169219:58
macohmm...its almost like this society is old enough to have history or something19:59
Pendulummaco: Harvard was 163619:59
senseThat's almost as old as New York!19:59
Pendulum(it's oldest, W&M is 2nd)19:59
macobut they only got here in 1620!19:59
senseNew Netherlands was established in 1614.20:00
senseI believe there were already English by then.20:00
AlanBellyeah, we have proper history20:00
Pendulummaco: they needed some way to train new ministers20:00
senseThat has indeed been a very important reason for establishing universities.20:01
senseThe same reason we founded our first in 1595.20:01
senseWhich actually isn't even long before 1636.20:01
Penduluminterestingly, it's never had an official affiliation with a specific church20:01
macoPlymouth was 1620. were there english here prior to plymouth? if not, nederlanders win20:01
Pendulummaco: Virginia Bay was 1607, I think20:02
AlanBellthis is like one of those slashdot threads about who has the lowest uid20:02
senseThe Pilgrim Fathers weren't the first, were they?20:02
senseThey just took over everything.20:02
Pendulumsense: I think they were the first to really take hold20:02
AlanBellwe were invaded by the Romans in 43 AD, beat that!20:02
senseWikipedia: "On April 10, 1606, King James I of England issued two charters, one for each of the Virginia Companies, London and Plymouth."20:02
senseAlanBell: Indian history is history too! :)20:03
macothis just made me look up whether the reason the dutch came here was mennonite persecution, but it looks like that was 50 years later20:03
Pendulumfirst Dutch were traders, I think20:03
Pendulumand Pennsylvannia Dutch is German, not Dutch20:04
maco(i said "this society" not "this continent" because the Invasion of the White People marked a societal change, whereas the Brits have been the Brits for 1000 years)20:04
JanCPennsylvania Deutsch20:04
sensePendulum: Dutch traders were everywhere.20:04
macobah howd i forget that?20:04
Pici(eh, close)20:04
* maco headdesk20:04
sensePendulum: Dutch, Deutsch and Duits have the same origin.20:04
macoi'm pennsylvanian!20:04
Pendulummaco: you maybe didn't have the history obsession that I did as a kid? ;-)20:05
JanCand "Dietsch"  ;)20:05
* Pendulum did recreation colonial and early 1800s summer camps and everything20:05
sensePendulum: They all referred to a group of people living in the Netherlands and probably a large part of Germany. We and the Germans started to use it for all Germans, the English for Dutch.20:05
macoPendulum: i had a field trip to meet the amish! and they splained this! and i even was thinking it a couple days ago! and i still forgotted20:05
* Pici remembers learning most of this in school20:05
macoPendulum: also, my obsession with history is several centuries earlier than yours20:05
* maco is going to Pennsic this year!20:05
PiciI don't necessarily remember it, but I remember learning it ;)20:05
Pendulummaco: I live with a Medieval/Renn Studies major (and if my brother lived here, it'd be with 2)20:06
macoPendulum: kickass!20:06
macoerm i mean20:06
Pendulummaco: ask my mum about it this summer since I suspect we will see you again :P20:06
senseI like it how we funded the US rebels as part of our anti-British foreign policy and now we are controlled by the US. It's inverse!20:06
macoPendulum: for a moment, i thought you meant you were going to come to pennsic too20:06
senseHistory is awesome.20:07
macothen i remembered20:07
* maco smiles at Dr Moon20:07
Pendulummaco: nope. I don't have SCA interests and will probably not be travelling at that point anyway20:07
maco(this isnt #kubuntu-devel... can i still make gratuitous Doctor Who references and have them be recognised?)20:08
Pendulummaco: :)20:08
Pici(either I'm forgetful, or the references are too old for me)20:08
macoPendulum: Silence in the Library / Forest of the DEad20:08
PiciOh, oh, that guy.20:08
PiciI was going to watch that episode this past weekend again, but I went with The Pandorica Opens / The Big Bang instead.20:09
JanCsense: the funny thing about New Amsterdam is also that the first "Dutch" settlement there were people from Hainaut (part of the French-speaking Wallonia in Belgium)   :P20:09
PendulumI need to catch up. I haven't actually seen the 2nd half of the last series :-/20:09
PiciNew Series starts on the 23rd.20:10
macoAlanBell: #1 also needs "leisure" and "schedule"20:10
senseJanC: Nationality wasn't very important. During the Anglo-Dutch wars many Dutch ships were manned with English, who fought for us because we paid better.20:10
JanCit was part of the Netherlands back then I think20:11
JanCbut French-speaking  ;)20:11
senseAlanBell: That is an awesome letter. Though terribly politically incorrect, probably. But great. :)20:11
senseJanC: In those days Belgium was the primary battlefield of the Western world. Territory there has changed hands much since.20:11
sense"(except Kansas, which she does not fancy)" LOL20:12
macoAlanBell: "leisure" now sounds right to me your way. listened to Rat Race by the Specials a few too many times ;-)20:12
JanCsense: it's still, just nowadays it's diplomatic battles being fought  ☺20:12
sensemaco: In the US the pronounce it like leesure, right?20:12
macosense: yes20:13
JanCwith the EU, NATO, Swift, etc. all being located in/near Brussels20:13
senseI recently looked up how many 'security-related' organisations/institutions the EU has.20:14
senseThere even is a European Union Military Staff! Though that only has an advisory role.20:14
=== hggdh_ is now known as hggdh
maco"You must tell us who killed JFK. It’s been driving us mad."20:20
JanCdidn't a million people tell you who killed him already?  ;)20:22
PiciWow, Hoary was released 6 years ago tomorrow.20:22
macoAlanBell: how does the pronunciation of "revocation" differ between the US and the UK though?20:23
sensemaco: Maybe it's just about the meaning.20:25
macosense: it says pronunciation20:25
sensefor aluminium20:25
sensemaco: howjsay.com puts the stress on the first e20:26
macoaluminium i knew about it20:27
senseWe had to learn this whole list of differences at school and make a choice to stick with.20:27
macothe one in howjsay sounds normal to me20:27
AlanBellmaco: no idea, I just say "revocation"20:28
AlanBellwell actually I don't very much, pretty rare word to actually use20:28
sensehowjsay usually says two when the British and American pronuncation differ20:28
sensee.g. http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=either20:29
sense'12. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling “gasoline”) – roughly $8/US per gallon. Get used to it.' Will you survive?20:29
macosense: ee versus aye in "either" isnt USvUK20:32
sensemaco: Oh, of course. I forgot that. I actually heard Jeremy Clarkson say eether at least once.20:33
maco(at least, in the US both are acceptable!)20:33
senseWell, the Oxford Dictionary uses -ize, the differences aren't always following country boundaries.20:33
jcastroJFo: I doomed myself yesterday20:33
JFohow so?20:34
jcastroso usually towards late beta I backup/clean/and redo20:34
jcastroso I did that yesterday, kickstart20:34
jcastroit takes me like an hour tops20:34
jcastroall smooth20:34
jcastrothen, I spent some time making it just right20:34
jcastrotoday I realize I i386'ed, so I'm missing like 6+gb of ram20:35
jcastro"man why are my VMs so slow?!?!"20:35
JFooh man, that sucks20:35
jcastroit got the wrong netboot img20:35
JFoI almost did that on this laptop last time20:35
JFoI was kicking off the install when I realized20:35
JFoare you fixed now or are you gonna have to redo it?20:36
jcastrothis is why I want cobbler20:36
jcastrojust go do that stuff20:36
jcastroand gen me a nice curses menu on pxe pls.20:36
jcastroJFo: gonna redo it, just been waiting for all the unity releases today so I can test it all at once20:36
JFoyeah, good call20:36
JFoI'm going crazy looking at bugs20:37
JFowell, I was always crazy20:37
jcastroI know right20:37
JFojust getting worse, I fear20:37
jcastroit's nice to redo it all clean, and look back on the cycle20:37
popey20:32:28 < maco> sense: ee versus aye in "either" isnt USvUK20:39
popeythats not clear cut20:39
jcastroakgraner: everything's set, just need announcements20:40
macopopey: is only one accepted there while both are fine here?20:45
* jcastro wishes we defaulted to 32px for the launcher20:58
mhall119if Fedora 16 is called the Beefy Miracle, the rest of the FLOSS community no longer gets to complain about Ubuntu release names21:16
popeyi doubt redhat will allow that to happen21:16
mhall119jcastro: better idea would be to auto-size based on the number of launchers kept in the launcher21:16
mhall119the more you have, the smaller the icons21:16
mhall119popey: allow which, the name, or people no longer complaining about Ubuntu's names21:17
popeythe name :)21:17
mhall119that'd be pretty anti-community, if someone decided to unilaterally reject a name with popular support21:18
* popey whispers the worlds smallest 'meh'21:19
* jcastro is glad we don't mention the names as prominently as we used to21:20
jonojcastro, so is a Unity release on it's way?21:20
jcastrojono: already in there21:20
jonojcastro, cool21:20
jcastrosome parts haven't built yet21:20
jcastrobut there's a new ayatana stack upload anyway21:20
jcastrogive it an hour or so and you should be set, testing it now on a clean install21:21
jonojcastro, awesome21:21
jcastrojono: and in awesome news, seb made the classic mode classic again21:22
jcastroso it's what it was before, not like the old panel with the weird menu and appmenu21:22
jcastrojono: in case you missed it the ayatana scrollbars are in too21:24
popeyubuntu.com seems sick21:26
czajkowskipopey: in what way ?21:30
jonojcastro, cool21:31
jonojcastro, yeah scrollbars don't work on all apps21:31
popeyczajkowski: nvm, reported to sysadmins21:31
czajkowskipopey: fair enough21:31
jonojcastro, thanks for getting dbarth lined up for tomorrow21:31
jcastrojono: maybe announce it now?21:32
jcastropeople always have tons of unity questions21:32
jcastrowe could have a good turnout21:32
jonojcastro, will do21:33
jonojust grabbing lunch and then will21:33
pleia2popey: the awfulness of sounder caused me to set up mutt today because it has threading (that unity & israel thread was horrible)21:35
popeywondering whether to put it on the cc agenda21:35
pleia2yeah, I think we should21:36
popeyleave -users alone, just kill sounder21:36
jcastrosounder used to be so amazing. :(21:36
Technovikingsweet naaty working on Macbook, now to get Unity running21:36
pleia2I never really bought the argument of "if we don't have sounder the ubuntu-users list will have no where to dump the offtopic people"21:36
pleia2actually, they have the rest of the internet :)21:36
popeythe offtopic people can.. GTFO IMO21:37
Technovikingcrap can't upgrade now, unity package are being help back21:37
jcastroTechnoviking: you're in the middle of the upload21:37
jcastroTechnoviking: it's ok, it's nothing but fixes, give it until the top of the hour21:37
jcastrothat's when the next publisher run should go21:37
pleia2popey: "For about the eleventy-billionth time." grin21:38
Technovikingcool, will work on nvidia and getting Unity happy-ish21:38
akgranerjcastro, roger that21:38
TechnovikingWith Sounder, #ubuntu-offtopic, and Community Cafe forum Ubuntu slogan should be "Ubuntu, we let you bitch":)21:39
pleia2I don't know much about the forums, but the other two are mostly just toxic21:40
jcastrobut it used to not be like that21:40
jcastroit was like how we are in here right now21:40
jcastrochit chat fun21:40
pleia2I was actually interested in the unity thread (they were all complaining and stuff, but it's nice to know what people are complaining about)21:40
pleia2not so much interested when they started on a giant rant about israel and palestine21:40
Technovikingpleia2: the worst part it is really a few people stirring up folks21:41
pleia2Technoviking: yeah :\21:41
pleia2and we've talked to them before21:41
Technovikingthe unity rwached Godwin at epic speed21:41
popeyi should have stepped in early on21:42
pleia2you've worn the flak jacket a lot on both -users and sounder21:43
pleia2no one else is willing to (I'm a bit too thin-skinned at the moment for it)21:44
TechnovikingUnity-fied:) and I think all the hardware except nvidia work on my Macbook Pro OOTB21:44
jcastroi'd be more than happy to get yelled at21:46
jcastroafter the forums this should be easy. :p21:46
popeyfeel free to join sounder and slap people about a bit21:47
jcastrocan't we make jono do it?21:47
pleia2more eyes on -users would be nice too (but that's calmed down a lot)21:48
jcastrohe's at lunch, let's pile up on him so when he comes back he won't know any better21:48
Technovikingis skype in natty yet in canonical archive?21:48
jcastroI don't think it is21:48
jcastroI grabbed the new beta by hand last night21:48
jcastroI upgraded my wife to natty21:49
Technovikingbbiab, need to get son at school21:49
jcastrook on second thought, I'm staying out of sounder21:50
jcastroreading that makes me want to quit21:50
jcastrosomeone should really flag all this junk for the CC though21:50
popeyas far as I can tell everyone joining in is a non-contributor, in pretty much every sense21:51
jcastroto be fair, ogra has been complaining about the noise/garbage in ubuntu-user for like 4 years.21:53
popey-users is much better21:53
pleia2yeah, we actually kicked some people off -users earlier this year, it helped21:54
jcastroif the CC would just grant me some temporary powers21:55
pleia2you forgot the part about it being a wretched hive of scum and villainy21:57
* popey re-edits21:57
pleia2(jcastro started the star wars thing!)21:57
jcastroIn order to ensure the safety and security of the community21:58
jcastroUbuntu will be reorganize!21:58
jcastrointo the first, galactic ..... empire!21:58
jcastrofor a safe! and secure ..... society!21:58
jcastro<pleia> so, this is how libery dies21:58
jcastro<pleia> with thunderous applause!21:58
pleia2noo, that was padme!21:59
popeyI actually put on voices as I read those lines out21:59
* JFo looks good in black21:59
popeylosing it21:59
popeyJFo: .... pudding ?21:59
jcastropleia2: are you watching clone wars? (the cgi cartoon?)21:59
JFodunno popey never worn pudding before :)22:00
pleia2jcastro: nah, I pretty much gave up on the new stuff22:00
popeyI see Charlie gives Avi an apology, yet the insult was thrown at me.22:05
popeynice, really nice22:05
jcastroooh link22:06
jcastropleia2: I love the new stuff22:06
jcastroI think I am the only one though22:06
JanCpopey: sounder ?  ☺22:13
popeyyes. sounder22:13
JanCsome people on sounder have nothing else to do, it seems...  ;)22:14
JanCor they have a compulsion to answer to every single mail on the list22:15
=== jono_ is now known as jono
Technovikingpopey: good call on adding sounder to CC agenda22:33
popeyDaviey: seen the reply from James?22:34
popeyget packaging etherpad! :D22:34
Technovikinghalf the fun at UDS is bitching about Gobby, what madness is next, curing the Ubuflu:)22:35
Pendulumubuflu will never go away22:36
JFoit simply waits22:44
JanCpopey: etherpad survives UDS now?22:48
PiciIts going to go away at a UDS that ends on Friday the 13th? I think not.22:49
JanCI seem to remember that during the presentation of etherpad at UDS-M the thing went into zen-meditation mode and stopped responding  ;)22:49
jcastroJanC: that's because it was running on some cheap linode22:50
popeythat was because nobody warned daviey22:50
popeyworst demo ever22:50
popeystuck in everyones minds22:51
jcastroor on some i386 in his living room22:51
AlanBellI wouldn't have done it if I knew there would be negative consequences of it failing22:51
AlanBellor I would have done it on a server I knew was built for the load22:52
AlanBellwhich we did move on to after we knocked down the first one22:52
popeysorry, didnt mean it like that22:52
AlanBellits OK, I agree with you22:53
JanCwell, it was probably also because 100 people connected within seconds22:53
AlanBellyeah, all loading the UI22:53
AlanBellthe actual load of running clients isn't going to be much at all22:54
popeymaybe we could set one up and see how many people we can get on it22:54
AlanBellI did pre-announce that I was going to demo etherpad and that server as a lightning talk22:54
JanCI was on the server before the talk started BTW  ;)22:55
AlanBellI just didn't make it clear I was going to start the talk with "everyone pile on this URL, lets see if we can crash this thing"22:55
popeygiven I wont be at UDS and will be at work so behind a proxy I cant use gobby easily at all.22:55
PiciWhat did you expect people were going to do?22:56
AlanBellwhat does james want in terms of packaging?22:56
akgranerjcastro, proposed announcement in your inbox....22:56
popeyAlanBell: something that runs on lucid I'd imagine22:56
AlanBellPici: *I* expected them to all pile on, I don't know what Daviey expected!22:56
popeyif a package can be made that can just be installed and up and running on a lucid VM22:56
AlanBellpopey: well there is a .deb22:56
popeydoes it work?22:56
popeyi suspect he wants someone to own it22:57
* popey tickles Daviey 22:57
AlanBellI don't know if it works, but I could find out22:58
AlanBellI am not sure if that is sufficient, or if he wants it in Debian or something22:58
akgranereverytime someone mentions etherpad I have this overwhelming need to say, "I <3 etherpad!"22:58
popeyi have it on hilight akgraner :)22:58
akgranerpopey, sweet!22:58
JanChow much resources does it really need?23:00
* popey says "java" at JanC 23:00
* AlanBell wonders if it will install on Natty server23:01
popeyi love that t-shirt23:02
AlanBelletherpad : Depends: sun-java6-jdk but it is not installable23:03
popeyalso amd64 version available23:03
popeyor not23:04
JanCit needs Sun Java?23:04
popeythe source debs23:04
popeyfor someone who might want to change them23:04
popeyhttp://mclear.co.uk/2010/03/10/installing-etherpad-on-debian/ is useful here23:05
AlanBellI think I will leave the packaging part of the problem to the experts23:06
TechnovikingEvolution or Thunderbird in Natty?23:07
popeyevolution seems okay23:08
AlanBellI am happy to spin up a VM running any version of Ubuntu with anything up to 10GB of ram if someone wants to do some load testing23:08
popeywe could do that during the podcast on tuesday?23:08
AlanBelland there are some summit tweaks which could be put in place if we are going to have notes on etherpad23:09
PiciDid we ditch having an 'RC' for 'Beta 2'?23:09
AlanBellpopey: I kind of know john mclear who runs primarypad23:10
popeymaybe he could speak up about performance23:11
IdleOnePici: yes23:15
IdleOneto extend the "testing period" iirc23:16
JanCmore like not wanting to release a RC just before the Easter weekend, I think...  ;)23:17
Technovikinghmmm.. evolution is showing 24 hour instead of 12 hour time23:30
akgranerPici, yep this release it will go straight from beta 2 to final23:34
Piciakgraner, IdleOne: thanks for the info23:35
cjohnstonakgraner: wanna come help me paint?23:38
akgranercjohnston, uh nope :-)23:52
popeycjohnston: I'll do it!23:55
popeyYou pay for the flight, I'll bring the beer!23:55
popey(it'll get me out of painting my sons bedroom this weekend!)23:56
popeyoh. Hang on.23:56
akgranerdang a plane ticket might be cheaper than hiring someone  ;-)23:56
akgranerdepending on how much you have to paint23:56
akgranerI am ban from painting anything at my house ever again...all because about 10 years or so ago I painted one of the bathrooms purple23:57
popeyITYM Aubergine ;)23:57
akgranerwhile Pete was out of town...he was less than thrilled...23:57
popeyIt's the artistic side in you I'm sure he loves :)23:58
akgranersure we'll go with love...23:58
Pendulumakgraner: was it an aubergine purple?23:59

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