=== smspilla|zzz is now known as smspillaz [02:20] it's quiet in here tonight! [02:20] where is everyone? [02:20] AHHHHHHHHHHH!!! [02:20] hi! [02:20] trying to sort out flights to BUD :-\ [02:20] i'm not the only person awake then ;) [02:20] flying to budapest seems to be not-cheap [02:20] bcurtiswx, oh, you're coming to uDS? [02:20] hey guys [02:21] chrisccoulson_, yes :) [02:21] bcurtiswx, have you been before? [02:21] hi kenvandine! [02:21] chrisccoulson_, nope [02:21] it looks like i woke everyone up ;) [02:21] or, perhaps it was desrt "AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!" which woke everyone up ;) [02:22] 8Or, the Aussies are just working away industriously. :) [02:22] chrisccoulson_, it isn't late for some of us :) [02:23] heh :) [02:23] kenvandine, it's not late for me either ;) [02:23] for some definition of late [02:23] :) [02:24] Well it is late morning here in Australia, east coast. [02:24] :) [02:24] hehe [02:26] it's early morning here in the UK ;) [02:26] but i didn't finish working long enough ago to fall asleep just yet [02:26] so, it's beer'o'clock now [02:29] chrisccoulson_, its 9:30PM here in the east coast US [02:30] bcurtiswx, it's 2.30am here ;) [02:31] * kenvandine will be up until 2:30am tonight.. i am sure [02:31] heh :) [02:32] * kenvandine starts hacking dee into gwibber tonight [02:33] my head hurts from looking at assembler and trying to figure out how the linker works for most of the day [02:33] considering my finacee wakes up at 5:00AM some days... i'd hope to never be up then [02:34] bcurtiswx, my kids get me up by 6 or 6:30 am everyday! [02:34] and i never go to bed before 1am [02:34] chrisccoulson_, i really do love firefox4... i have never really liked any browser before [02:34] don't they go to school yet? [02:34] but i have to say, firefox is sweet now [02:35] bcurtiswx, 2 of them do [02:35] nice :) [02:35] but they started spring break today [02:35] doesn't matter [02:35] they are up early...no matter what [02:35] oooh, fun fun, fun fun.. fri--eeee-day [02:35] :) [02:35] i wish they would sleep in... i would love to sleep until 8 :) [02:36] nothing a few crumbs of ambien in their midnight snack won't help ;) [02:38] so should I switch off of chromium? [02:38] * kenvandine doesn't like chromium [02:38] and ff4 is definately faster [02:39] ff4 is so last week. i'm on 4.2 now! [02:39] ;) [02:39] chrisccoulson_, crack head! [02:40] lol [02:41] kenvandine, have you tried mozilla f1 yet? [02:41] f1? [02:41] remember... i hate web browsers [02:41] kenvandine, http://f1.mozillamessaging.com/ [02:43] chrisccoulson_, 2 cycles ago i wrote a firefox extension for gwibber [02:43] to share a link [02:43] nice! [02:43] * kenvandine should resurrect that [02:43] yeah, that would be cool [02:43] it added a gwibber logo next to the address bar [02:44] i suppose i could add it inside the awesome bar now? [02:45] yeah, that would be possible [02:45] in my infinite spare time, i'll take a look again [02:46] lol === asac_ is now known as asac [05:08] chrisccoulson_: I've recently played the “stare at instruction streams and try to work out what's happening” game. If you'd like someone to complain at/sympathise/talk at, feel free to ping me :) [05:31] is there a reason mutter didn't get updated in the distro past 2.91.90? [05:32] ah, in universe, nm [06:21] could someone look at the mail I sent to the gnome3-team mailing list and is probably stuck in the moderation queue? [06:23] oh I guess I need to talk to the team administrator [07:58] good morning === Zdra is now known as xclaesse [08:17] hey desktop-ers [08:17] seb128: Morning! [08:17] Good morning [08:18] hey pitti [08:18] hey Sweetshark [08:18] kenvandine: refresh interval> I think that's below the FFE treshold [08:18] i. e. just do it [08:18] Sweetshark: moin moin! [08:18] nice to get a good night, I'm feeling better today ;-) [08:19] seb128: oh, you were sick? [08:19] no, I just did a 3am hacking night on tuesday and I feeled tired yesterday [08:20] I played with GNOME3 yesterday [08:21] some things there are nice, and it's nice looking out of the padding and spacing which is a bit over what it should be [08:21] but I really miss a launcher easily accessible, having to switch to the activity view doesn't work well for me, I also miss a background and an easy way to access my files, downloads, etc [08:22] seb128: sounds very similar to my experience yesterday indeed [08:22] I'm not impressed by the new control center though [08:23] like you get on specific configuration pages from different ui parts like indicator [08:23] with the first button in the dialog being a "go back to other settings" [08:23] yes, I've seen it [08:23] which when you click send you on the control-center grid where you didn't come from without an obvious way to get back where you were [08:24] the background capplet is weird as well [08:24] the pictures are like 10x10 pixels images on a sidebar [08:25] but otherwise performances seemed fine and I like the look [08:25] well it's a nice start, I'm waiting for 3.2 ;-) [08:26] seb128: too black for my tastes :) [08:26] hey desrt [08:27] hey [08:27] interesting point you make about the control centre btw... i hadn't considered that [08:27] I think getting ride of the desktop before giving an easy access to your files is a mistake though [08:27] ya..... [08:27] gnome-tweak-tool lets you turn that back on [08:27] I can see lot of users getting angry over that [08:27] seb128: or the minimise button :) [08:28] I didn't miss that one ;-) [08:28] I also noticed that I got used to the unity launcher, I really missed not having one with shell yesterday [08:28] if you are in lazy mode with an hand on the mouse it's less convenient to switch between applications [08:29] if you use the keyboard that's less an issue though [08:29] i find it's even more annoying with the trackpoint... harder to slam that up into the top/left [08:29] but even still, not too annoying [08:29] oh [08:30] is there a way to add clock locations? [08:30] I didn't find how to do it [08:30] i think it's missing functionality [08:30] I like to know what time it is for my co workers when I ping them ;-) [08:30] ok [08:30] i imagine the shell team has a whole laundry list of features that didn't make it in time [08:30] which is pretty understandable [08:30] it is [08:31] it's a 3.0 [08:31] 3.2 will have those I guess [08:31] i think we successfully dodged 'kde 4.0' :) [08:31] ;-) [08:31] but it's still very much .0 indeed [08:32] I find the notifications nice as well [08:37] seb128, hi [08:37] time for bed, i think [08:37] nite [08:37] seb128, did you tested the ppa? [08:38] desrt, night [08:40] the gnome-shell 3.0.0.1 deb has a weird problem with the filepermissions in /usr/share/gnome-shell which might be ppa related since it doesnt happen with a local build [08:40] hey ricotz, no I downloaded the gnome3.org iso [08:40] more precisely in /usr/share/gnome-shell/themes [08:41] ok [08:41] 'night desrt [08:43] seb128 - oh, you're a new gnome-shell convert now are you? ;) [08:43] lol [08:43] not quite ;-) [08:44] though I like the look it's still missing quite some things [08:45] yeah, it does look quite nice [08:45] oh, I also noticed that I got used to have clean dialogs, i.e without menus etc === cassidy` is now known as cassidy [08:52] nice, my laptop died when i docked it [08:55] do you know if gconf has a way of transitioning users from one key to another? banshee-1 → banshee in this case [08:55] for users who previously manually set banshee-1 as their default and will now be broken because it renamed [09:08] * pitti stops bombarding u-desktop@ with oneiric topics now [09:19] a graphical net installer would be nice [09:22] net installer as in via pxebooting? [09:26] pitti - i responded to the firefox translations topic ;) [09:26] hyperair: as in a cd-sized environment which downloads the rest at install [09:26] like debian netinst [09:31] aah i see [09:35] chrisccoulson, hey [09:35] hi seb128 [09:35] chrisccoulson, could you send one about default email client? ;-) [09:35] seb128 - yeah, can do ;) [09:35] thanks [09:38] chrisccoulson: yay! [09:39] pitti, you stole my GNOME3 topic! [09:39] lol [09:39] and my translations topic ;) [09:41] * pitti hugs seb128 [09:41] * seb128 hugs pitti [09:41] seb128: I just dumped everything that we should do from my POV :) [09:44] pitti, btw I don't think moving to an usb image would starting to not care about being rigourous, it would just give us an updated target revisited to nowadays standards [09:44] would "mean" starting [09:44] seb128: yes, I think 1 GB is a sensible upgrade [09:44] like we can realistically ship qt over our current stack [09:45] I think available bandwidth certainly grew by the factor 1.4 since 2004 [09:45] it would also mean to get back a bit in a translated world ;-) [09:45] pitti, right [09:45] (1.4 being 1 GB / 700 MB) [09:45] that was my though as well [09:45] yeah, i think 1G is a reasonable number, but i wonder if it would be better to do something like grow it by 100M every release to make sure we keep thinking long-term [09:45] seb128: we just couldn't ship CDs any more, just DVDs [09:45] broder: that seems way too fast to me, though [09:46] well and iso download is not really an argument [09:46] pitti: err, sorry - not that it should grow indefinitely [09:46] knowing that after a few weeks you get half the iso in sru downloads anyway [09:46] well, I still don't download DVDs, and many other people can't either [09:46] but rather that we shouldn't jump immediately from 700M to 1G [09:46] broder: ah, right [09:46] if we care about downloads we should get delta debs [09:46] since i suspect that we will come up with ways to fill 1G rather quickly, and then be in the same position again [09:47] broder: I like that [09:47] pitti: i'll reply on list so it's recorded [09:47] I would just jump but fill it with langpacks [09:47] then we can argue on tradding langpacks with things worth it [09:47] when needed [09:47] seb128: doesn't that put us in a position of planning regressions down the road for people using those langpacks? [09:47] ? [09:47] broder: only regressions in terms of what you need to download during install [09:48] we always tweaked the langpacks we ship [09:48] like german and french are on the edge each cycle [09:48] i suppose as an english-speaking american pig i'm never exposed to that :-P [09:52] seb128: we should really start having French or German as "C" strings in applications :) [09:52] ;-) [09:52] +1 [09:53] (seems that I switch to ubuntu-desktop IRC channel when it's needed :p) [09:53] pitti, though sense (I think it was him) had a nice blog post on the topic this week saying that's it's a disadvantage for english [09:53] since the strings are written by hackers and don't get any review, etc as other locales [09:53] that's right [09:54] and more importantly, in a lot of cases by non-native English speaking hackers :) [09:56] btw do you guys have an opinion on whether "classic GNOME" should be similar to 10.10 or to what we have now [09:57] or said different if we should have the logo menu and appmenu or if we should go back to the 3 menus without appmenu on the default layout [09:57] you mean panel vs. unity-2d? [09:57] no, gnome-panel "classic" session default layout [09:57] oh, hmm...i haven't checked out the current classic environment in a while :) [09:59] we switched to use the logo menu rather than the application, places, system one and we added appmenu to be closer from unity since that was the 2d fallback session as well [09:59] people on the french forum seems surprised when they go to the classic environment to not find the traditional menu [10:00] but since we have unity-2d for those who want a 2d session similar to unity [10:00] didrocks, right, I think users wait from the classic session to be ...classic ;-) [10:00] agreed with that, I unerstand the 2 rationales though :-) [10:00] understand* [10:01] with unity-2d, we should never have to show a user the classic environment unless they explicitly opt into it, right? [10:01] if unity-2d was on the CD yes [10:01] but that's not the case (yet) [10:02] i'd say that if we get unity-2d on the cd somehow, then someone who specifically asks for classic should get the old-school layout [10:03] but we don't for this cycle [10:03] oh, you're talking about for 12.04? yeah, i don't know for that one [10:11] seb128: with GNOME 3 is there actually still a well-defined "gnome 2d" experience? [10:11] pitti, still gnome-panel [10:11] though they tweaked it a bit to be closer from the gnome-shell layout [10:11] seb128: my gut feeling is that gnome-2d session should continue to be what we have now, to avoid jumping back and forth and also to provide a slightly more consistent user experience [10:11] pitti, so with appmenu? [10:11] yes [10:12] but I have no strong opinion about it TBH [10:12] but for upgraders we'll reuse the existing config anyway [10:12] it took me a fair while to actually see the "new" layout in natty, with a new user [10:13] it depends of how we communicate about "classic" though [10:13] we don't communicate it as being a 2d session [10:13] we called it "classic" [10:14] pitti, do i want overlay scrollbar on netbook ? (just saw your meta upload) [10:14] like users say that's what you should use if you like the old GNOME better than unity or g-s [10:14] ogra_: question for DX, but I guess so [10:15] seb128: ah, good point === kklimonda is now known as Guest19588 [10:25] so classic = gnome 2.32 (~ 10.10)? === Guest19588 is now known as kklimonda [10:25] morning [10:25] hey rodrigo_ [10:26] hey rodrigo_ [10:26] hi kklimonda [10:26] hi seb128 [10:26] Laney, yes with appmenu configured by default [10:27] rodrigo_, how are you? [10:28] seb128, very tired, didn't sleep much last night, as my gf had a small accident with the bike yesterday and she had a bad night [10:29] rodrigo_, oh? is she ok? did she get injured? [10:30] seb128, yes, just some bruises, nothing serious, but enough to feel some pain when sleeping [10:30] ok [10:34] pitti: didrocks asked about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/720716 still being fixed. After some failed attempts (it fun to have multiple sets of .desktop files in multiple repositories, some unused) I think I have a solution. How would that be handled wrt to FF and translations? [10:35] Sweetshark: chrisccoulson made it for firefox on a wiki page as translation isn't handled by launchpad [10:35] hence the fact I pointed that yesterday, you should talk about it with dpm as well :) [10:35] yes, we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Wanted/FirefoxDesktop for firefox [10:37] Sweetshark: right, it's an UIF issue, and by and large missing translations; I think we should at least collect translations for the more popular languages (Spanish, Portugese, Chinese, and of course French!) before we upload this, as this doesn't have any langpack support [10:37] Sweetshark: please subscribe u-release and ubuntu-translators to the bug and ask for a UIF, and perhaps point to a wiki page like for firefox [10:38] hi, on Natty I've seen that Lotus Notes uses the global menu, but eclipse doesn't. Can I exclude Notes from the global menu somehow, as it doesn't work that well? [10:44] TeTeT, unset UBUNTU_MENUPROXY [10:44] TeTeT, then start it [10:47] we probably should have a wrapper that does this on all wxgtk apps ;) [10:48] audacity isnt usable under unity [10:48] (works fine in classic) [10:52] ogra_, this is bug 722375 [10:53] ogra_, that's fixed today in natty [10:53] seb128: thanks [10:54] oh, awesome, so i can switch my desktop machine back to unity ! [10:54] works nicely [10:54] * ogra_ is currently digitizing his LPs ... not having audacity is kind of blocking ;) [10:55] didrocks, hi, just updated that bamf/chromium bug, definitely not fixed [10:55] fta: which one? the webapps match? [10:55] bug 744972 [10:56] (the one jorge pointed me to yesterday) [10:56] yeah, please reopen it and take in touch with the contributor making the patch [10:56] rodrigo_, can you check on bug #753047 [10:57] ? [10:57] ogra_, you could just have unset UBUNTU_MENUPROXY to run it under unity... [10:59] seb128, yes [10:59] thanks [11:07] hiya [11:07] does anybody know anything about the patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/633125? [11:07] (it's actually a patch for gnome-settings-daemon) [11:07] https://launchpadlibrarian.net/68447735/use_xrecord.patch [11:08] seb128, hmm, you merged this -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/lucid/couchdb-glib/fix-571286/+merge/24754 but it wasn't needed anymore, just for lucid [11:09] rodrigo_, no, I manually set the merge request to merged on launchpad so it stops showing in the merges queue [11:09] seb128, ah, ok [11:09] rodrigo_, I could have deleted it or set to anything else [11:09] rodrigo_, it was just to stop having it listed ;-) [11:09] seb128, yes, no problem, didn't pull the branch before asking you [11:10] rodrigo_, but feel free to set the correct status [11:10] seb128, it was abandoned, so yeah, no problem [11:10] dholbach, do you have any clue about dholbach's question? [11:10] seb128, no [11:10] ups [11:10] that's why I asked ;-) [11:10] rodrigo_, ^ [11:10] dholbach, it was for rodrigo [11:10] hmm [11:10] * dholbach hugs seb128 :) [11:10] * seb128 hugs dholbach [11:10] * dholbach hugs rodrigo_ too :) [11:11] * rodrigo_ hugs dholbach back :) [11:11] dholbach, looking... [11:12] GROUPHUG! [11:12] dholbach, I guess it looks ok, shouldn't break anything, so do you want me to submit the package with the patch? [11:12] * dholbach hugs Sweetshark too :-) [11:12] Sweetshark, :) [11:13] Sweetshark, jealous, eh? :D [11:13] rodrigo_, I personally didn't know too much about the patch - should I forward it to upstream, etc.? [11:13] it's just my patch pilot day and I was trying to get another opinion on it [11:13] dholbach, I'm upstream, so I can forward it myself [11:13] :-D [11:13] fast-forward! [11:13] awesome [11:14] I'm happy to test-build, etc, upload to Ubuntu [11:14] although I see in the bug it needed a change in syndaemon [11:14] oh? [11:15] didrocks, the last compiz regressed for me. lots of artifacts in chromium: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium-artifacts.ogv [11:15] dbarth: ^^ [11:15] fta: can you open a bug about it? [11:15] it seems that somehow fta is a bug magnet [11:15] dholbach, it needs to be compiled with xrecord, for -R to work, I guess? [11:15] or he has very weird configs ;-) [11:15] seb128: yeah ;) [11:16] dholbach, well, I'll submit a package fix for natty and file the patch to b.g.o [11:16] rodrigo_, ok, let me know if there's anything else I can do [11:16] and thanks for your work on this [11:16] dholbach, not sure how syndaemon would react if it gets -R but not compiled with XRecord [11:17] didrocks, chrisccoulson: Looking good like that? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Wanted/LibreOfficeCalc Just asking before I create a copy for base, draw, impress, math, startcenter, writer. [11:17] rodrigo_, there's also https://code.launchpad.net/~dylanmccall/ubuntu/natty/gnome-settings-daemon/fix-748805/+merge/56096 [11:18] but it seems to be still under discussion [11:18] yeah, that one needs fixing [11:18] the patch doesn't really make things any better, it just changes them slightly [11:19] ok [11:19] Sweetshark, yeah, looks good [11:23] ? [11:23] ah ok [11:23] damage issues again i guess [11:24] hmmm, I get a tasty internal server error everytime I save something on the ubuntu wiki ... [11:25] seb128, should I add a tag for the regression or something? [11:26] rodrigo_, I was just prepping a merge proposal for the one dholbach raised, but if you are on the case i'll leave it. [11:26] looks more complicated that patch piloting anyway :) [11:27] Daviey, yes, almost done [11:27] * dholbach hugs rodrigo_ and Daviey [11:28] awesome [11:28] didrocks, dbarth: bug 753369 [11:28] no bot? [11:28] dholbach, :) [11:28] fta: I'll let dbarth deal with it, on other things right now [11:28] rodrigo_, \o/ [11:30] desrt: is it possible in gsettings to construct new subtrees dynamically? such as a tree with properties for each hotpluggable drive you have (/apps/nautilus/volume_options/MyUsbStick/ has an "automount" gboolean flag, and possibly a list of mount options) etc. [11:30] desrt: I don't see anything in the gsettings API to do that, it all seems to rely on a predefined schema? [11:31] fta, no [11:31] fta, there is no such tag during unstable series [11:31] desrt: or is the solution for that to just have a /apps/nautilus/volume_options key which is a dictionary gvariant? (mapping UUIDs/Labels to options) [11:34] is there any take for bug #741425 [11:34] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-1-gnome/+bug/741425 [11:34] that's polkit aborting on "assertion failed: (info->alignment == 0 || info->alignment == 1 || info->alignment == 3 || info->alignment == 7)"" [11:35] I really doubt that it's on login [11:35] seems on logout [11:36] I just can't reproduce it :/ [11:36] I already tried to kill it in various ways [11:36] if anyone has a recipe, I'm happy to workon it [11:37] pitti, right [11:37] pitti, I'm wondering if there is a way we could detect and ignore crash on logout [11:38] seb128: can we ask gnome-session somehow? i. e. does it have a shutdown phase or so? [11:38] (not that it would be easy to get to that from a kernel context, but that's details) [11:38] pitti: there's a shutdown phase, yes [11:39] we can probably steal the dbus address from the crashed process' environment and query the session dbus [11:39] pitti: there's actually more than one phase for that. But everything after RUNNING means "we're leaving guys" [11:40] there's a SessionOver() signal, but that's not of much use in apport [11:41] is there a property we can query on org.gnome.SessionManager? [11:41] didrocks: any opinion on this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/720716/comments/2 ? esp. on the startcenter? [11:42] Sweetshark: the .desktop file looks good [11:42] Sweetshark: just stick with what design asks for Natty I would say [11:43] Startcenter shouldn't be in the launcher once bamf is fixed [11:50] can someone please review/merge/upload this -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-settings-daemon/fix-633125/+merge/56726 ? [11:50] dholbach, Daviey: ^^ [11:50] looking [11:51] rodrigo_, so there were no additional changes required? [11:52] dholbach, yes, the syndaemon compilation with XRecord enabled, which is already in natty, as the bug comments say [11:52] ah great [11:53] rodrigo_, so we'll carry it as a distro patch as it's too hard for g-s-d to find out if XRecord is enabled in syndaemon? [11:53] dholbach, that's why I'm not pushing the fix to git.gnome yet, as I need to confirm the -R is harmless if syndaemon is not compiled with XRecord [11:53] * dholbach nods [11:54] pitti: "ubuntu-translators" finds 17 pages of hits in launchpad, is there something more specific (a complete email address maybe?) [11:55] Sweetshark, you mean the mailing list of the ubuntu translators? [11:55] 11:37 < pitti> Sweetshark: please subscribe u-release and ubuntu-translators to the bug and ask for a UIF, and perhaps point to a wiki page like for firefox [11:56] ah, in that case, just subscribe the teams on the bug report (+ subscribe someone else) and put "ubuntu-translators" and "ubuntu-release" in there [11:56] "Ubuntu Translations Coordinators" sounds good ... [11:57] Sweetshark: ah, it's actually a ML: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators [11:57] dpm can probably help too [11:57] Sweetshark: but yes, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-translations-coordinators sounds good [11:57] ah he's not around today [11:58] rodrigo_, the only thing i'd say is the author doesn't have an email address... and as a personal preference you can use the short version of the lp bug url. [11:58] minor really. [11:58] Daviey, couldn't find an email address in the author's lp page [11:58] rodrigo_, snizovtsev@gmail.com [11:58] pro tip: click on the gpg key link [11:58] and yes, changing it to the short version [11:58] :) [11:58] ah [11:59] (https://launchpad.net/bugs/633125) [12:01] ok, fixed and pushed [12:02] Daviey, do you want to upload it? [12:02] I can do it too - as you like it [12:03] dholbach, Daviey: if you upload it, please also merge the branch with lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu [12:03] yes [12:04] Daviey, I'll take care of it [12:06] #753369 ? [12:06] dholbach, super [12:06] * dholbach ^5s everyone === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:20] Hi, would someone from the desktop team decide if this is worth carrying? patch on bug 501426 .. thanks :) [12:20] is ubotu dead? :( [12:32] guys out of curiosity why was w3c removed from the install? you now can't report a bug if x doesn't start. [12:34] davmor2: ubuntu-bug doesn't work? [12:34]