[00:00] <wgrant> lamont, cjwatson, slangasek: No further issues?
[00:08] <lifeless> wgrant: buildd umask backstop was gone, and boom
[00:08] <wgrant> lifeless: Well, yes, I saw that, but wondered if things were still fixed.
[00:08] <lifeless> partly
[00:08] <lifeless> I don't know if lamont has tracked all the buildds down yet
[02:03] <lamont> lifeless: all should be fixed
[02:03] <lamont> wgrant: ^^
[02:04] <lamont> wgrant: having said that, recipe builds still have issues  - they also need to not assume that a sane-for-building umask is handed to them.
[02:12] <lifeless> lamont: can you file a bug ?
[02:12] <lamont> lifeless: I will do so,  and then I'll fix it.
[02:12] <lifeless> \o/
[02:12] <lamont> I may even fix it harder
[02:19] <micahg> wgrant: would it be a lot of trouble to add the package sets to the FTBFS list for the latest archive rebuild?
[02:22] <wgrant> micahg: The rebuild archive script is currently a fork of the primary archive one.. I need to merge them.
[02:23] <micahg> wgrant: ah, ok
[03:13] <blairkatu> Yo' I'm on the beta in unity. Does any one know how to change the workspace configuration
[03:13] <blairkatu> And thanks in advanced.
[03:15] <blairkatu> I'm pretty sure there is no way to do it with the UI
[03:50] <smoser> jdstrand, around ?
[04:01] <micahg> smoser: should be back in the morning, was off today
[04:01] <smoser> thanks.
[07:02] <lamont> there will be a brief disturbance in the i386 virtual builder pool
[07:25] <ohsix> hm,  is there a reason oss4 still has a package, all i've ever heard is people thinking it'll solve their problems and giving them new ones
[07:25] <TheMuso> ohsix: I didn't even know there was a package of it.
[07:26] <ohsix> sec lemme check the origin
[07:26] <ohsix> it's in universe/sound
[07:26] <ohsix> oss4-base and some other packages with oss4 in the name
[07:28] <ohsix> it's useful for the guy that knows why he's using it instead of just getting it dropped in his lap as some solution from some fan; but the former doesn't likely happen often
[07:58] <didrocks> good morning
[08:07] <ohsix> hm, what's the process for say; getting flat-volumes finally enabled in pulseaudio on ubuntu, it is disabled when sinks don't have dB information; but it breaks when the dB information is present but incorrect, the number of devices by now should fit in a small blacklist (they have been fixed as they show up)
[08:13] <ohsix> micahg: i tried those new icedtea drops; didn't expect a change, and didn't get any :]
[08:13] <diwic> ohsix, hmm, maybe it should be considered for oneiric, if we ship oneiric with what's now in git master, and hopefully a release
[08:14] <dholbach> good morning
[08:14] <diwic> morning dholbach
[08:14] <ohsix> diwic: i'm gonna see about some of those cosmetic/trival patches getting applied upstream too
[08:14] <dholbach> hey diwic
[08:14] <diwic> ohsix, you mean those we carry in Ubuntu currently? That'd be great
[08:15] <ohsix> yea, i just read them to verify something else and most look easily transplantable
[08:17] <pitti> stgraber: looks fine to me
[08:32] <ohsix> diwic: do you know of a bug i can use as an example when putting in a request that flat-volumes be changed
[08:32] <diwic> ohsix, not in my head, search for flat volumes on launchpad
[08:33] <ohsix> ok i will look at those, i was more interested in seeing the general process
[08:48] <DreadKnight> ohsix: heya; how to connect to eth0 using nmcli again?
[08:48] <ohsix> nmcli con list, nmcli con up id or uuid, if it's named "Auto eth0" nmcli con up id "Auto eth0" should work, iirc
[08:51] <Laney> what's all this "la_backup" stuff all over my filesystem?
[08:51] <DreadKnight> ohsix: thanks; not working; gotta reinstall I guess
[08:51] <ohsix> DreadKnight: if it is temporary you can use dhclient
[08:52] <DreadKnight> ohsix: oh that was it :D cheers again!
[08:52] <ohsix> DreadKnight: if you dont also have nm-applet running there might not be any connections unless you set them up with keyfile, or in system-connections; as i was explaining it to the guy it was a special case
[08:52] <ohsix> he had nm-applet running but no working mouse
[08:59] <ohsix> overlay scrollbars are neat, a bit hard to fish for with a mouse sometimes though, is there a simple way to disable it?
[09:01] <DreadKnight> ohsix: they're default now or what?
[09:01] <ohsix> this is OT for here, my bad
[09:27] <Daviey> @pilot in
[09:27] <m4n1sh> can a package sync be requested as of now?
[09:28] <Laney> yes
[09:28] <m4n1sh> Laney: after which freeze it cannot be synced?
[09:29] <tumbleweed> m4n1sh: it can always be synced, but it's less likely to be the option you want, the closer we get to releases. After feature freeze, we only really want bug fixes, not new features
[09:29] <m4n1sh> tumbleweed: it is not present as default installation
[09:30] <m4n1sh> and we have tested it extensivly
[09:30] <m4n1sh> from PPA
[09:30] <tumbleweed> m4n1sh: you still need to request an FFe if you want to bring a version with new features in
[09:30] <Laney> you can always request a sync, but when it gets really close to release (like after the RC) it might be an idea to ping the release team too
[09:30] <tumbleweed> but if you show extensive testing, you'll probably get it
[09:32] <m4n1sh> tumbleweed: its a new version
[09:32] <m4n1sh> with some minor small features
[09:33] <m4n1sh> UI enhancements
[09:33] <m4n1sh> Laney: where can I find release team?
[09:34] <tumbleweed> #ubuntu-release
[09:35] <m4n1sh> thanks
[10:21] <Daviey> hrw, Hi, How did you generate the debdiff for bug 749155?
[10:22] <hrw> Daviey: dch -i + debuild -S + debdiff
[10:22] <hrw> Daviey: ah. I know issue - edited it probably to fix dpatch description ;(
[10:23] <Daviey> ahh
[10:23] <Daviey> hrw, v
[10:23] <Daviey> http://pb.daviey.com/Qp3L/raw/
[10:23] <hrw> Daviey: add empty line - should work
[10:24] <hrw> sorry for that
[10:24] <kklimonda> good morning o/
[10:24] <hrw> hi kklimonda
[10:25] <Daviey> hrw, no problem, thanks for clearing that
[10:26] <hrw> Daviey: thx for merging it
[10:27] <hrw> Daviey: this week I had a session with few bugs in packages which I never used or known what for they are.
[10:27] <Daviey> heh.. good to see them getting fixed.
[10:27] <hrw> Daviey: ace was one of simplest ones. but it had longest build time
[10:28] <Daviey> hrw, The other thing i was going to say, it's a good idea to run 'update-maintainer' on the package if the version introduces a ubuntu delta.  (ubuntu in the version of debian/changelog)
[10:29] <hrw> Daviey: thx - will remember for future
[10:29] <hrw> Daviey: part of ubuntu-dev-tools?
[10:30] <Daviey> hrw, super.. if you are interested, here is the reasoning: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
[10:30] <ohsix> hmmm linux-tools depends on libdw now, i wonder if that means unwinds without frame pointers :D
[10:34] <hrw> Daviey: I know problem from my work in few other distributions
[10:37] <dholbach> @pilot in
[10:37]  * dholbach hugs Daviey
[10:37] <Daviey> hrw, ahh!
[10:38]  * Daviey embraces the hug.
[10:38] <hrw> Daviey: but still forget sometimes about issue
[10:38] <Daviey> juliank, Are you ready for the bzr branch on bug 736507 to be uploaded?
[10:38]  * hrw builds gcl/armel
[10:39] <mvo_> Daviey: its on my sponsoring list, should be fine
[10:39] <juliank> Daviey: mvo already prepared the upload
[10:39] <Daviey> hrw, We all do... which is why it was coded in to block us from building if it's not done :)
[10:39] <Daviey> juliank, ah, super!
[10:41] <juliank> mvo_: Didn't you upload it yet, and why are you logged in twice?
[10:42] <mvo> juliank: unity was playing games with me
[10:42] <mvo> juliank: its uploaded now, I did some quick tests with it
[10:42] <juliank> mvo: OK.
[10:46] <ohsix> can anyone point me at how one requests packaging? cairo-trace isn't in the repos and i thought it was :\
[10:48] <ohsix> nm they're packaged
[10:49] <dholbach> seb128, do you know what's going on with https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/gtksourceview3/natty-201104070312/+merge/56681?
[10:49] <dholbach> it looks like there are no visible changes between the two
[10:50] <ohsix> seb128: hi, you've touched a lot of my bugs lately, thanks!
[10:50] <seb128> dholbach, no, ask james_w, I've no clue why the autoimporter doesn't work as it should
[10:50] <seb128> ohsix, you're welcome!
[10:50] <dholbach> seb128, shall I go ahead and merge it to make the importer happy again?
[10:50] <seb128> dholbach, he keeps opening weird bugs like this one
[10:50] <seb128> dholbach, dunno we maintain that in a team vcs with only the debian dir
[10:51] <dholbach> ok, I'll ask james_w
[10:51] <seb128> dholbach, I've no clue why the importer gets confused and why there is a conflict
[10:51] <seb128> something is just buggy and wrong
[11:26] <dholbach> does anybody know what's up with pbuilder in natty? (might be a linux-any build-dep problem?)
[11:26] <dholbach> I can't build usbmuxd from sid
[11:26] <dholbach> (natty i386 pbuilder on natty i386 if that matters)
[11:32] <dholbach> mvo, do you have an idea what to do about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pbuilder/+bug/728494?
[11:32] <dholbach> (a good example of it is trying to build usbmuxd from sid on natty)
[11:35] <mvo> dholbach: I have a look in a minute
[11:39] <cjwatson> kees: what's the point of vmlinuz being mode 0600?  as policy points out, anyone can just look up the version and get the image from the archive - it's not secret
[11:39] <cjwatson> kees: and it broke live CD builds
[11:40] <cjwatson> (easily fixed, but)
[11:43] <juliank> mvo: The fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/750694 is in debian-sid
[11:43] <pitti> likewise the System.map?
[11:50] <mvo> juliank: nice
[11:52] <mvo> juliank: the fix for the multiarch issue from yesterday is in donkults branch now too
[11:52] <mvo> juliank: I will upload a new ubuntu version with those fixes
[11:59] <juliank> mvo: We could also upload them to Debian and merge
[12:00] <mvo> juliank: yep. bug #404724 looks like a low hanging fruit, making it root.admin and 640 should do no harm
[12:01] <juliank> mvo: That would be one more Ubuntu-specific change (Debian has sudo, not admin) and not really bring any benefit.
[12:05] <mvo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/704595 might be a interessting one too
[12:05] <mvo> (its libapt though)
[12:08] <juliank> mvo: That's a "I'm can't verify the signature, so I ignore attributes" case
[12:10] <juliank> (IIRC)
[12:11] <juliank> mvo: I'm going to eat something now (or at least I hope it's ready), should be back in a 20 minutes
[12:11] <mvo> juliank: ok
[12:11] <mvo> juliank: see you
[12:40] <juliank> mvo: Back, and yes, that's really one of those cases where the release.gpg could not be verified due to missing keyrings. If verification fails, component, etc., are ignored
[12:43] <mvo> I wonder what it takes to fix that its ignored
[12:51] <juliank> mvo: I take a look at it
[12:53] <mvo> thanks!
[13:04] <juliank> mvo: GPG method fails, causing acquire to unlink the release files and load the package
[13:04] <juliank> or more specifically, the file remains in partial/
[13:19] <seb128> who is handling ubottu?
[13:19] <seb128> can we get it on #ubuntu-desktop as well?
[13:19] <vish> seb128: jpds ?
[13:19] <seb128> jpds, ^
[13:21] <dholbach> tsimpson, ^
[13:22] <tsimpson> I guess one of the bots died
[13:23] <chrisccoulson> i could use some help from someone on foundations for bug 663294 really :) (see from comment 17)
[13:23] <tsimpson> seb128: ubot5 is there now
[13:24] <dholbach> mvo, it could be that 728494 is a separate problem from building sid's usbmuxd in pbuilder under natty
[13:24] <seb128> tsimpson, thanks a lot
[13:29] <stgraber> pitti: ok, I'll commit that to the bzr branch and upload
[13:40] <om26er> i get "No init found. Try passing init= bootarg" now system won't boot, this have happened the third time over the past month in Natty
[13:41] <ohsix> om26er: your initramfs is damaged, or isn't getting created properly
[13:41] <ohsix> this isn't a support channel though
[13:42] <om26er> but its a bug which have not fixed for more than a month so that makes it a concern ;(
[13:42] <om26er> and i didn't find any duplicate
[13:43] <om26er> should I try to update-initramfs in chroot?
[13:43] <ohsix> well, it hasn't been determined that its a bug yet
[13:44] <ohsix> sure, you can try; but chances are whatever broke it in the first place will do it again
[13:49] <om26er> ohsix, arand in #ubuntu+1 confims to have faced this issue with btrfs as well, so a bug ;)
[13:49] <cjwatson> the btrfs problem is specific to btrfs
[13:50] <ohsix> yes
[13:50] <cjwatson> if you aren't using btrfs then you have a different problem
[13:50] <om26er> my / is on btrfs cjwatson
[13:50] <ohsix> btrfs isn't running out of bugs either
[13:50] <cjwatson> then it's bug 732149
[13:51] <cjwatson> (a consequence of it, anyway)
[13:51] <ohsix> hm
[13:51] <ohsix> how does it get to not building the initramfs, or is it just cuz grub can't find its files on btrfs
[13:51] <om26er> cjwatson, i saw the 732149 only when I had /boot on btrfs this time /boot is ext4 so I might havea  different problem ?
[13:52] <cjwatson> ohsix: at least the cases I've seen aren't that the initramfs wasn't built, but that because grub-probe isn't able to understand btrfs properly it isn't emitting rootflags=subvol=@
[13:52] <cjwatson> ohsix: and, yes, you could also have boot-time problems failing to find the file
[13:52] <ohsix> so it can't reach its file
[13:52] <ohsix> k thanks for the info
[13:53] <cjwatson> in general it seems to be a transient problem
[13:53] <cjwatson> which doesn't yet imply it's been fixed, but rather that the conditions that cause problems in grub's filesystem code seem to come and go
[13:54] <cjwatson> I've tried to gather information from affected people but it's been too hard to debug remotely; I need to reproduce it in a vm and debug locally
[13:54] <cjwatson> so it's gone into my queue of stuff like that
[13:54] <cjwatson> it's about third or fourth in that queue, I think
[13:54] <ohsix> can the grub test shell program thing use raw volumes? might be able to tease it from there
[13:55] <cjwatson> my ADSL is too slow for it to be feasible for me to fetch a whole filesystem
[13:55] <cjwatson> I have some likely candidates for ways to reproduce it
[13:55] <ohsix> ah i figured creating your own
[13:56] <cjwatson> once I have reproduced it, I am familiar with how to debug that kind of thing :)
[13:56] <ohsix> is grub out of sync as far as the disk format is concerned or is it stable enough that not finding the files would be a grub problem
[13:56] <cjwatson> I don't know the answer to that question
[13:56] <ohsix> hm
[13:56] <cjwatson> I expect I'll find that out
[13:56] <cjwatson> I don't think it's worth speculating in advance
[13:57] <ohsix> it shouldn't be too hard to check grub policy wrt it since it's still in flux, which is what i'm going to do
[13:57] <ohsix> it maeks sense for it to lag in the bootloader given the state of development, and there was an on disk format not too long ago, too; might have landed in .38
[13:58] <cjwatson> the boot loader code was (necessarily) reverse-engineered from some docs
[13:58] <ohsix> drop an assertion bomb on the thing
[13:59] <cjwatson> as I say, I know how to debug grub once I've reproduced it locally
[13:59] <om26er> cjwatson, adding rootflags=subvol=@ to grub parameter worked :) thanks to arand
[14:00] <cjwatson> good
[14:00] <ohsix> arand was talking about snapshots too; but they were still speculating because theres not much info yet
[14:01] <hallyn> hm.  has anyone tried to create a btrfs partition as part of the desktop installer process?
[14:01] <ohsix> probably the people with the problems they're having now
[14:01] <arand> I did mine using ubiquity yes, and it worked apart from these issues here..
[14:01] <cjwatson> yes, and there are bug reports from some of those people
[14:02] <hallyn> oh, haha, i see, that was already on topic
[14:02] <hallyn> the partitioner went berzerk on me long before it even got to trying to install
[14:03] <cjwatson> that would probably be a different problem
[14:03] <hallyn> i'll file a new bug then, thanks
[14:03] <cjwatson> have you filed a bug?
[14:03] <cjwatson> ok
[14:03] <ohsix> sure is an odd way to poke at it; when it can all fail and take your stuff with it, i'd be using losetup and a disk file or something D:
[14:04] <cjwatson> we offer it in the installer in order that people can do system-level testing, which often isn't feasible with a loop mount
[14:05] <Laney> Is something wrong with the new procps? http://paste.debian.net/113289/
[14:05] <ohsix> i understand that, but its a buzzword to some people right now, they might not know the implications
[14:07] <cjwatson> ohsix: can't help that
[14:08] <ohsix> i suppose not, hopefully people complain loudly though
[14:08] <cjwatson> we aren't going to get useful feedback if only experts ever use it
[14:08] <ohsix> nod
[14:08] <ohsix> when the time comes it'll be awesome for ubuiquitous snapshotting and backups
[14:10] <Daviey> @pilot out
[14:10] <arand> ohsix: Using apt-btrfs-snapshot has a tendency to eat some disk space though... So it would have to be done in moderatioin..
[14:11] <ohsix> oh neat, i was just talking about filesystem level stuff
[14:12] <ohsix> i haven't looked as i wont be able to use it for some time anyways, but can't you set the percentage and number of snapshots to keep? then the distro can turn that into weekly, daily, monthly
[14:13] <arand> ohsix: Yea I assume those features are planned, that one is very basic atm now though.
[14:14] <jibel> YokoZar, hi, we are receiving many dups of bug 753449
[14:14] <hrw> I just got hit by that one too - thx for info that it is known
[14:15] <ohsix> arand: you can do it with lvm but its very expensive :\
[14:16] <Laney> hmm, seems to only be broken in a chroot
[14:18] <arand> ohsix: Yea, not really feasible for more than temporary snaps from what I've read on it.
[14:19] <mvo> ev: thanks for your apt-clone work! I uploaded a new version with your fixes and also with a fix for the xubuntu upgrade-via-install case
[14:20] <hrw> btw - when is freeze for any universe uploads (including NEW packages)?
[14:21] <hallyn> cjwatson: I created bug 753510.  I'm going to wipe the drive and try again - if you want me to wait in case you want some more info off the machine, pls shout
[14:22] <cjwatson> hallyn: no /var/log/partman?
[14:22] <cjwatson> we need that for partitioner bugs
[14:23] <cjwatson> (for future reference, 'ubuntu-bug ubiquity' should work, if the machine is network-connected)
[14:24] <cjwatson> (probably not going to be able to look today, though)
[14:26] <ev> mvo: yay, thanks!
[14:28] <hallyn> /var/log/partman looked useless, but i'll attach it
[14:28] <cjwatson> hallyn: we need it to reproduce what you did
[14:28] <hallyn> ok
[14:29] <cjwatson> knowing where it stops is often useful too
[14:33] <ohsix> arand: and the more complex filesystems get it actually gets worse
[14:34] <ohsix> since its block level after a snap the log goes through the snapshot, which means everything ets diverted twice or more
[14:43] <Riddell> mvo: ok if I upload update-manager for bug 746431 ?
[14:44] <mvo> Riddell: sure, pleae just make sure to use bzr-buildpackage as its using a pre-build hook
[14:44] <mvo> Riddell: I can do the upload too if needed
[14:45] <Riddell> mvo: bzr-buildpackage doing its thing
[14:45] <mvo> great
[14:47] <Riddell> mvo: what is parsewiki needed for?
[14:50] <mvo> Riddell: just to make nice html from my text annoucement
[15:14] <Riddell> mvo: what do I need to do to get past this? http://paste.kde.org/9127/
[15:18] <mvo> Riddell: *cough* let me fix that, that is rahter silly
[15:35] <MonkeyDust> folks, idea for future installers: some kind of software center during installation
[15:36] <ohsix> you mean like software center? :D
[15:39] <MonkeyDust> well, yes
[15:43] <MonkeyDust> no?
[15:47] <MonkeyDust> or choosing trusted PPA's during installation
[15:50] <alfmatos> hi
[15:50] <alfmatos> anyone from the network-manager team around?
[15:50] <MonkeyDust> Ubuntu Tweak offers a selection of PPA's, too, graphically, why not use such option during installation
[15:52] <birdthief> I'm on Natty and the touchpad no longer works
[15:52] <ohsix> alfmatos: try your question on me
[15:52] <birdthief> x and lsinput both find it.
[15:54] <alfmatos> ohsix, just trying to wrap my head around how the packaging is actually done, because there is an upstream branch, a branch for each release, + a debian branch. How is the merging actually done (src+vcs-debian-folder) ? Is it manual?
[15:57] <jdstrand> didrocks: hi! I don't seem to have an Ubuntu logo in the upper left of my screen anymore (eg, next to the global menu). Is this intended? known?
[15:58] <didrocks> jdstrand: oh no, it's not, do you have the window buttons at the upper left or just the menu title?
[15:59] <alfmatos> maybe fta can help? i see his name popping up all over the daily builds ppa's
[16:00] <jdstrand> didrocks: the window buttons are in the window, not part of the global menu. eg, I am typing this in irssi in gnome-terminal. I have the window buttons in this terminal. I have no Ubuntu logo in the upper left of the screen, but it does say 'Terminal' in the upper left, over where the logo should be
[16:00] <jdstrand> didrocks: if I go full screen for the terminal, they show up in the global menu
[16:00] <didrocks> jdstrand: do you have one or two monitor?
[16:00] <ohsix> alfmatos: ah, can't field that one, sorry
[16:00] <didrocks> jdstrand: or is your setup is "mirror screen" or whatever with only one monitor?
[16:01] <alfmatos> ohsix, np :)
[16:01] <jdstrand> didrocks: I have two monitors, but mirrored at the same resolution because of bug #711954
[16:02] <didrocks> jdstrand: I think it's what is the trick
[16:02] <didrocks> jdstrand: I'm in the middle of an unity release, I don't think we have a fix for that. Do you mind just updating and report it after the update?
[16:02] <jdstrand> didrocks: well, it is 'mirrored'-- ie, the screen should be exactly the same on both
[16:03] <didrocks> probably what traps it
[16:03] <jdstrand> didrocks: sure, I can wait. I tried to find a bug on it, but couldn't. no worries
[16:03] <didrocks> jdstrand: I think there is a similar one, not exactly the same, but similar, but anyway, just open one with the incoming release
[16:03]  * jdstrand nods
[16:03] <jdstrand> didrocks: thanks!
[16:04] <didrocks> jdstrand: thanks to you :)
[16:04] <jdstrand> :)
[16:14] <alfmatos> fta, around?
[16:15] <aruiz> is anyone having problems with matplotlib in natty?
[16:15] <jdstrand> micahg: hey, in testing my fix for bug #750381, I tried youtube with gnash, but it doesn't work too well. istr you mentioning that gnash should work quite well-- is youtube known broken? (I don't see an open bug on it)
[16:16] <micahg> jdstrand: are you running 0.8.9?  when I tested it, it seemed to be pretty smooth
[16:17]  * micahg wonders if it's a video driver issue
[16:17] <jdstrand> micahg: 0.8.8-6ubuntu2
[16:17] <jdstrand> micahg: oh no, youtube just tells me there was an error and it doesn't even try to play it
[16:17] <alfmatos> any idea on where I can find some documentation on how to maintain separate src/upstream and Vcs-Bzr (debian dir bzr branch only) branches?
[16:17] <micahg> jdstrand: please upgrade to 0.8.9, I uploaded it a couple days ago
[16:18] <jdstrand> weird, I did an apt-get upgrade this morning...
[16:18] <jdstrand> ah, binary new
[16:18]  * jdstrand looks
[16:31] <dholbach> @pilot out
[16:39] <birdthief> ohsix: I figured it out
[16:41] <YokoZar> pitti: Can I poke you on https://launchpad.net/bugs/753449  please?  All the latest branding-ubuntu upload did was give it the correct name
[16:42]  * YokoZar just noticed he uploaded a package with a changelog entry referring to differences in debian/changelog...
[16:47] <psusi> /msg psusi hi there.  I'm throwing in my application for
[16:47] <psusi>      universe-contributor and was hopign you might endorse me.  If you have
[16:47] <psusi>      time to take a look, it's at
[16:47] <psusi>      https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication
[16:48] <pitti> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda seems to be rather empty right now, do we have something urgent to discuss?
[16:49] <pitti> mdz: currently asking myself whether I can weasel out of this today, and go to a friend's bday party
[16:49] <cjwatson> oh argh, I forgot about that - I can't make today's meeting, sorry
[16:49] <pitti> it's really late now in DST
[16:49] <mdz> pitti, I may have to miss it too...
[16:50] <mdz> there is some unanswered email on the mailing list
[16:50] <mdz> oh, pitti answered it
[16:51] <pitti> about the motu-council thing?
[17:01] <mvo> Riddell: I fixed the test, will upload after diinner
[17:05] <Riddell> thanks mvo
[17:05] <mvo> Riddell: uploading now, it as a native python test proxy now it was rather silly to depned on a external one
[17:05]  * mvo is really away for dinner now
[17:14] <pitti> YokoZar: (on the phone, will look in a bit)
[17:18] <jdstrand> micahg: fyi, gnash 0.8.9 bin deNEWed and works well :)
[17:18] <micahg> jdstrand: awesome, thanks
[17:19] <Laney> does it support the bbc iplayer? :-)
[17:19] <YokoZar> pitti: Thank you muchly :)
[17:19] <micahg> Laney: I know it doesn't support streamtheworld yet, I need to file an upstream bug for that
[17:20]  * Laney tries
[17:24] <Laney> no :-(
[17:24] <jdstrand> didrocks: fyi, noticed libunity stuck in binary NEW (due to new libunity4), so I deNEWed it
[17:25] <lamont> Setting up lmodern (2.004.1-3) ...
[17:25] <lamont> /usr/sbin/update-language-def: line 779: printf: missing unicode digit for \u
[17:25] <lamont> ^^ I wonder if that has a bug filed yet
[17:25] <didrocks> jdstrand: oh thanks! :)
[17:26] <micahg> lamont: yes, with a patch attached
[17:27] <lamont> cool
[17:27] <micahg> bug 751038
[17:51] <alfmatos> question: is there a convention for a debian control dir in launchpad, either to hold it in debian/ or at the root of the branch?
[17:52] <alfmatos> the difference I assume is either doing a nest or a nest-part debian debian, right?
[17:52] <alfmatos> (in the recipes)
[17:56] <micahg> alfmatos: recipes help in #launchpad
[17:56] <alfmatos> ooh, ok
[17:57] <alfmatos> ubuntu packaging in launchapd also?
[17:57] <micahg> alfmatos: nope, ubuntu packaging in #ubuntu-packaging :)
[17:57] <alfmatos> dooh =)
[17:59] <cjwatson> I have a theory
[18:00] <cjwatson> bugs get less comprehensible the further through the release cycle you get
[18:00] <directhex> flibble wibble wurble!!!
[18:00] <cjwatson> I seem to have had about five almost completely inscrutable ones in a row :-/
[18:00] <micahg> I have a corollary, the complication of the bug is inversely proportional to the time available to fix it :)
[18:01] <cjwatson> also, the complication of the bug is inversely proportional to the size of the patch needed to fix it
[18:17] <kees> cjwatson: because it is a way to block script-kiddie root exploits. while it doesn't even remotely stop a dedicated attacker, it does actually stop simplistic attacks, and I feel that has real-world value. sorry about the breakage; thank you for working around it.
[18:19] <cjwatson> kees: that's one regression caused by it, but I don't know if there will be others.  are you open to reverting until oneiric if we find more?
[18:20] <kees> given that I've already seen vmlinuz-parsing-for-kernel-symbols tools in the wild, I'd prefer not to revert it, but if there is strong evidence that it will cause continued problems, I'm open to reverting it. I'd really like to try to leave it because then all of the ksym-obfuscation will hit people all in the natty cycle (instead of spreading it out).
[18:20] <cjwatson> ok, we'll see how it goes
[18:21] <kees> cool
[18:29] <stgraber> SpamapS: ping
[18:29] <stgraber> SpamapS: I'm looking at bug 752393. I installed the packages listed in the bug report but don't get the same output you do in /var/log/boot.log
[18:30] <stgraber> SpamapS: anything I might be missing ?
[18:31] <stgraber> SpamapS: my boot.log just shows fsck, apparmor, bind9, postgresql and apache2 (which I had installed) but not samba, squid or pretty much any of the ones you have in your log file
[18:34] <pitti> YokoZar:
[18:34] <pitti> if [ "$1" != "upgrade" ] || dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt 0.4-0ubuntu1; then
[18:34] <pitti> YokoZar: it won't actually re-divert when upgrading from 0.5 to 0.6 :)
[18:35] <YokoZar> pitti: didn't you write that line? ;)
[18:35] <pitti> YokoZar: not sure, it's your changelog
[18:35] <pitti> YokoZar: but anyway, fixing/testing now
[18:36] <YokoZar> pitti: I mean the maintainer scripts were rewritten by you previous version but the quadrapassel problem was unnoticed because the package still had gnometris filenames so the conflict never happened (and I imagine everyone who had the package had gnome-games installed)
[18:45] <pitti> YokoZar: ok, fixed
[18:45]  * pitti waves good night
[18:47] <YokoZar> pitti: have a good time at party :)
[18:47] <YokoZar> Thank you for cleaning up what was probably my mess too :p
[18:50] <sense> Bug #753853 seems to have the potential to make many Natty machines unbootable after update. Shouldn't the latest udev update be pulled from the archive to prevent it from spreading?
[18:59] <stgraber> sense: do you know if that's udev -ubuntu3 causing it or 167 in general ?
[19:00] <sense> stgraber: I only now that it happened after the update for udev that landed today.
[19:01] <sense> stgraber: and that there are at least two people in #ubuntu+1 with the same problem.
[19:01] <stgraber> sense: -0ubuntu2 and -0ubuntu3 fix some divert issues so I'm not sure how that could be the cause (unles you're keeping an old divert for some reason)
[19:02] <sense> stgraber: Hmmm, that is strange. But the processes only started crashing after today's update. Could it have been something else that landed today?
[19:02] <stgraber> sense: can you check if /sbin/udevadm.upgrade exists on your system, if so, what's the content ? and also give the md5sum and (if text file) content of your /sbin/udevadm ?
[19:02] <stgraber> sense: I want to make sure you're not using the diverted version for some reason
[19:02] <sense> stgraber: I'll grab a live usb stick.
[19:02] <sense> thanks for your help
[19:03] <stgraber> version 167 landed on Monday (new upstream version), -0ubuntu2 landed on the same day (divert fixes) and then I uploaded another today to fix issues when someone has an half-upgraded udev package and upgrade to -0ubuntu2
[19:04] <stgraber> It's not impossible that -0ubuntu2 or -0ubuntu3 might break udev but let's say if it's a feature issue, it's more likely that -0ubuntu1 did it
[19:04] <sense> That would make more sense indeed.
[19:09] <stgraber> ce6894e12ff09b07cad331d5ad91894a  /sbin/udevadm
[19:09] <stgraber> /sbin/udevadm: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, stripped
[19:09] <stgraber> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 123K 2011-04-07 08:43 /sbin/udevadm
[19:09] <stgraber> sense: is what I have with the package installed on amd64
[19:09] <sense> /sbin/udevadm.upgrade exists and its content is not readable by vi. /sbin/udevadm is a text file, copied it to http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/590908
[19:10] <stgraber> ouch, seems like udev didn't upgrade properly in your case
[19:10] <sense> ah
[19:10] <sense> stgraber: wait, I think I now what could have caused this.
[19:10] <directhex> gremlins.
[19:10] <stgraber> sense: can you do: grep udev /var/lib/dpkg/diversions ?
[19:10] <sense> stgraber: branding-ubuntu also got updated todya, but the new version fails during installation.
[19:10] <stgraber> sense: and also make sure the package is in a clean state (ii)
[19:11] <sense> that aborts the whole thing and for me it crashed aptd
[19:11] <stgraber> sense: ouch, yeah, that'd be really bad for udev
[19:11] <stgraber> as in, computer won't reboot
[19:11] <stgraber> sense: can you run: "dpkg -l | grep udev" to confirm ?
[19:12] <sense> I can't run commands on the system, using an openSUSE live USB-stick I had lying around to see the filesystem. Looking into the grep thing now.
[19:13] <sense> stgraber: that grep command returns /sbin/udevadm /sbin/udevadm.upgrade and fake-udev
[19:13] <stgraber> sense: chroot <target> dpkg -l | grep udev
[19:13] <sense> stgraber: architecture mismatch
[19:13] <stgraber> oh, not cool :)
[19:13] <sense> wait
[19:13] <sense> not
[19:13] <sense> I did that properly!
[19:13] <sense> No architecture mismatch, will try it.
[19:14] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ cat /var/lib/dpkg/status | grep "Package: udev" -A1
[19:14] <stgraber> Package: udev
[19:14] <stgraber> Status: install ok installed
[19:14] <stgraber> I'm guessing you don't have the "install ok installed" in your case ...
[19:14] <sense> libudev0 and udev are both iU
[19:14] <sense> not ii
[19:14] <stgraber> ok, and the branding package is also iU ?
[19:14] <sense> and libgudev-1.0-0 and lubudev-dev are iU too.
[19:15] <sense> stgraber: The branding package is still ii, with 0.5 installed, but 0.6 is causing the problems during upgrade, which prevent it from being installed.
[19:15] <sense> Just got confirmation from one of the other persons with the same problem that he also had branding-ubuntu making aptd crash during update.
[19:16] <stgraber> sense: can you try: chroot <target> dpkg --configure -a ?
[19:16] <stgraber> or apt-get -f install depending where it's stuck
[19:16] <sense> stgraber: That is finishing the setting up process of libgudev-1.0-0, libgudev-1.0-dev and compiz-plugins-main.
[19:17] <sense> stgraber: it also ran update-initramfs...
[19:17] <sense> rebooting the system now to see if the problems are gone
[19:22] <sense> stgraber: Issue solved! Thank you very much for your help!
[19:22] <stgraber> no problem. I hope not too many people will get the same issue :(
[19:23] <sense> stgraber: It really shouldn't happen that a package like branding-ubuntu can cause this to happen.
[19:44] <SpamapS> wow... that was awful.. 2 hours repairing the system because ubuntuone-syncd ran rampant with memory during an upgrade interrupting 'update-initramfs' .. DOH
[19:45] <SpamapS> stgraber: I didn't install postgres or bind9.. :-P
[19:45] <SpamapS> stgraber: I did this on a clean natty vm
[19:46] <stgraber> SpamapS: yeah, I chose some extra stuff installing the VM ;)
[19:46] <stgraber> SpamapS: going to retry with absolutely nothing then install the same packages that you have and see if I can get the same boot.log
[19:46] <SpamapS> stgraber: I used kirkland's quick seed...
[19:47] <SpamapS> stgraber: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2011/03/ubuntu-server-quick-install-no.html ... good stuff :)
[19:49]  * kirkland high fives SpamapS !
[19:51] <SpamapS> kirkland: high speed VM building. :)
[19:51] <kirkland> SpamapS: check out RoAkSoAx's work with cobbler and koan!!!
[19:53] <SpamapS> I'm sure its magnificent
[20:01] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: do it with cobbler :)
[20:02] <SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: virt-manager's working great, thanks. :)
[20:02]  * SpamapS has got to know when to say no to shiny things.. even tho cobbler is tempting
[20:09] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: haha yeah I also use virt-manager a lot but right now installing from  ccobbler with  kirkland's NQA stuff is just magivcal
[20:09] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: 1 command and a few minutes of wait
[20:52] <bigcx2> hey all
[20:52] <bigcx2> i'm trying to create a package that uses dpkg-divert
[20:52] <bigcx2> to install a new configuration file
[20:53] <bigcx2> and i want it to run non-interactively
[20:53] <bigcx2> however, i always get the prompt asking if i want to use the package maintainer's version or keep the current version on the system
[20:53] <bigcx2> is there any way to skip this in the maintainer scripts?
[20:54] <broder> bigcx2: i don't know exactly what you're trying to do, but have you heard of config-package-dev?
[20:54] <bigcx2> or does this have to be done with dpkg, apt-get options
[20:54] <broder> (http://debathena.mit.edu/config-packages/)
[20:54] <broder> it sounds like it does the sort of thing you're trying to do
[20:56] <bigcx2> broder: thanks, looking :)
[20:56] <broder> bigcx2: the important piece is that you install your file to a path with a suffix, and then c-p-d handles creating a symlink from the real path to your suffix'd path
[21:00] <bigcx2> so it essentially uses dpkg-divert and symlinking using cdbs?
[21:00] <bigcx2> i don't see anything in there about user prompting
[21:01] <broder> bigcx2: you get that prompt if both the user and the package have changed the config file in question
[21:02] <bigcx2> the user hasn't changed the conf file in my scenario
[21:03] <bigcx2> basically my package pre-depends on a package that installs a conf file
[21:03] <bigcx2> and then during preinst, i use dpkg-divert to move that file
[21:03] <bigcx2> which works fine, but i get that prompt
[21:04] <broder> you get the prompt for the file you moved?
[21:05] <bigcx2> with dpkg-divert, yea
[21:05] <bigcx2> i use dh_install to install the file
[21:06] <bigcx2> hmm
[21:08] <broder> bigcx2: hmm...i'm not sure exactly what's going on off the top of my head, and don't really have the time to debug, but i'd recommend trying config-package-dev anyway and seeing if your problem just goes away :)
[21:08] <bigcx2> broder: lol, ok
[21:44] <Ampelbein> slangasek: hi, I have sent an email to ubuntu-devel about the multiarch libraries in universe. basically it is down to 3 packages needing a fix (libfsobasics, emerald and nbtk), 6 are to be removed in my opinion, 4 are waiting on libfsobasics rebuild and 1 should be synced from debian.
[21:45] <Ampelbein> slangasek: the 3 that need a fix are out of my knowledge, so I can't help further :-(
[21:47] <slangasek> Ampelbein: wow, great work!
[21:48] <seb128> kees, hey
[21:48] <slangasek> Ampelbein: I don't know how to fix libfsobasics or nbtk either and I haven't looked at emerald... don't feel bad that you didn't fix them
[21:50] <kees> seb128: hi!
[21:50] <seb128> kees, how are you?
[21:50] <seb128> kees, I was just reading the tb meeting logs
[21:50] <kees> seb128: good! in a meeting at the moment, but can multitask :)
[21:50] <seb128> kees, could you give specifics about your issues with the classic session?
[21:51] <Ampelbein> slangasek: thanks.
[21:51] <stgraber> SpamapS: I still can't reproduce the exact boot.log that you have, but I'm suspecting a race condition or something similar on my machine as I don't get the same content every reboot :)
[21:52] <seb128> kees, the only changes we did over 10.10 was to replace the clock applet by its indicator equivalent by default and fix bugs
[21:52] <kees> seb128: oh, I have only personally encountered one issue (that I think you just fixed). the menu bar in the top panel was stealing the menus from apps
[21:52] <seb128> kees, so I find your concerns about it surprising
[21:52] <kees> seb128: I've heard complaints about session-saving going away, but I think that's unrelated to unity integration
[21:52] <seb128> kees, if anything we fixed a lot of bugs
[21:53] <seb128> kees, right, that never worked correctly and leaded to lot of bugs where people get their session screwed
[21:53] <stgraber> SpamapS: would it be possible for you to send me a "dpkg -l" of your system just to make sure I'm not missing something ?
[21:53] <seb128> kees, i.e empty desktop on login because required component get wrongly stored in the session and other similar issues
[21:54] <kees> seb128: well, my current concern is over the name. "Classic Gnome Desktop" is not what I get. I get "Classic Ubuntu Desktop". if it were "Classic Gnome", I wouldn't have the indicators, e.g. There _were_ gone earlier in Natty, but have since returned, which I think is a mislabelling of the session type.
[21:54] <seb128> kees, since we don't have the ressources to fix the session saving we decided to turn if off to avoid misleading users to think it works
[21:54] <kees> seb128: yeah, I never used session saving, and I had brought it up incorrectly as an example. I don't know much about it.
[21:54] <slangasek> seb128: I think you and I have different definitions of "work correctly", fwiw; when I lose all of my open terminals, etc. when I logout (or experience an X or kernel crash), and nothing comes back at all for me, I don't consider that working correctly
[21:55] <seb128> slangasek, session saving never worked correctly...
[21:55] <seb128> slangasek, that's nothing new
[21:55] <slangasek> seb128: I've been meaning to raise this point on ubuntu-desktop and see what can be done to retain this functionality for those of us who expect it
[21:55] <slangasek> seb128: session saving used to work well enough that I didn't have to spend 20 minutes after a reboot putting my desktop back in order
[21:55] <seb128> but rather than having it half working and screwing some users enough so they go no session or an empty desktop we just turned it off
[21:57] <seb128> slangasek, it sort of work if you only have one session type, i.e GNOME
[21:57] <seb128> slangasek, it really screw if you switch between GNOME2, gnome-shell or unity
[21:57] <slangasek> seb128: I'm willing to put some effort into fixing this for my use case, if someone can point me in the right direction
[21:57] <slangasek> seb128: right - I don't switch between these so that hasn't hit me yet :)
[21:57] <seb128> slangasek, I think some people wanted to have a session at UDS
[21:58] <seb128> but right now it screwed quite some users
[21:58] <slangasek> At the upcoming UDS?  That won't solve the problems I'm experiencing
[21:58] <seb128> right
[21:58] <slangasek> now, I can hack gnome-session locally to reenable saving, but that won't help other users either
[21:58] <seb128> do you have a better suggestion?
[21:58] <mdeslaur> I don't think having a blacklist of applications the session saver shouldn't be saving is a hard thing to implement
[21:59] <slangasek> seb128: no concrete suggestion yet... let's take this to the list where we can discuss it better.  For now, I just want to make it known that I'm available to hack on this :)
[21:59] <seb128> mdeslaur, didrocks did like 5 iterations of patches, it's not designed to handle different sessions like GNOME and unity
[21:59] <seb128> or GNOME2 and gnome-shell
[21:59] <seb128> slangasek, ok thanks
[21:59] <mdeslaur> seb128: oh, interesting...did those patches get uploaded, or were they private?
[21:59] <mdeslaur> (I mean, in a ppa)
[22:00] <seb128> mdeslaur, they landed in 10.10 and natty
[22:00] <seb128> but we kept getting new bugs and broken cases
[22:00] <seb128> we decided at the rally to stop wasting time on that
[22:00] <mdeslaur> seb128: ok, cool thanks
[22:00] <seb128> it was getting time consuming in debugging users and patching over what we estimated was worth it
[22:01] <seb128> nobody raised concerns until now either
[22:01] <seb128> but it's a bit late in the cycle now
[22:01] <slangasek> seb128: but speaking of me sticking my fingers into the desktop, I have made no progress on this gio issue :(  One possibility is if some other code is calling g_io_modules_load_all_in_directory("/usr/lib/gio/modules") and missing the multiarch dir, but I haven't found where this code would be
[22:01] <mdeslaur> seb128: that's usually how it works :)
[22:01] <tjaalton> for me, getting terminals and browser windows in the right positions (and workspaces) is/was important
[22:02] <seb128> slangasek, hum ok, what about just moving back the bamf .so back to the old dir for natty?
[22:02] <seb128> getting things on the right workspace and position never worked fine or only on some applications
[22:03] <seb128> you better do it the pitti way and write a script using devilspie or something to do that at login for you
[22:03] <tjaalton> okay
[22:03] <seb128> geometry and position storing is not really something the session has a status on
[22:03] <slangasek> seb128: fwiw, I didn't raise this concern earlier because I wasn't running natty on my laptop until beta, and the discussion of this change happened only on ubuntu-desktop whose list description is "Desktop Team co-ordination and discussion" so I've never realized I should subscribe there to find out about changes like this... for my part, I would appreciate it if such changes were communicated to ubuntu-devel to get a wider audience, bu
[22:03] <seb128> it relies on applications to handle it themself which most don't
[22:03] <slangasek> ... meantime I'll subscribe to ubuntu-desktop :)
[22:04] <tjaalton> don't know if it's firefox that tries to move the windows to where they were, but they all end up in the first workspace
[22:04] <tjaalton> maybe it's just a firefox regression, or compiz, or both
[22:04] <slangasek> seb128: yes, we can move bamf.so back to the old dir - I still would like to understand the cause of the bug however, since glib-networking also uses that directory
[22:04] <seb128> slangasek, to be honest nobody in the desktop team consider it as something working or clearly available to user, like it was not on the logout dialog but hidden in a tab of a configuration capplet
[22:05] <seb128> considered
[22:05] <seb128> when we discussed it
[22:05] <seb128> so we didn't think it was worth bringing on the devel list
[22:05] <seb128> but seems we were wrong
[22:05] <seb128> sorry about that
[22:05] <slangasek> ah, but if you got bug reports, doesn't that mean people had found that toggle and were using it? :-D
[22:05] <Sarvatt_> would be nice if we could at least pick the default session type in the installer since enabling automatic login forces unity
[22:06] <seb128> right, most not of them not understanding what is was doing and getting very confused
[22:06] <slangasek> but no worries - I'll just see what we can do to fix it for release
[22:06] <seb128> there is also no way to get back to a clean session once you pressed the button
[22:06] <seb128> which confused a lot of users as well
[22:06] <seb128> like they did a snapshot of a session but clicking there and had it stored until someone on a bug report explained them how to reset it
[22:07] <seb128> Sarvatt_, you can select it in gdmsetup or logout and pick a different session and log in again
[22:08] <seb128> ups
[22:11] <YokoZar> 3 cheers for seb128 on the gnome-panel change :)
[22:16] <j1mc> hi all - i had a couple of basic questions about unity that i think are appropriate for here. i basically wanted to get the unity component names right.
[22:16] <j1mc> - is there an official name for the 'ubuntu button' in the upper-left portion of the screen?
[22:17] <j1mc> - is the launcher on the left-hand side called 'the launcher,' or is there a different name for it?
[22:17] <chrisccoulson> j1mc, this might be appropriate for you - http://askubuntu.com/questions/10228/whats-the-right-terminology-for-unitys-ui-elements
[22:17] <chrisccoulson> :)
[22:17] <chrisccoulson> i think that answers your questions
[22:17] <j1mc> - the menus in the top panel, are they collectively called 'application indicators?'
[22:18] <j1mc> chrisccoulson: thanks - i'll have a look at them.