ScottLailo, i uninstalled hexter and jack-dssi-host01:44
ScottLthen i reinstalled hexter01:45
ScottLjack-dssi-host was not installed then01:45
ScottLi was able to run qtractor, insert hexter as a plugin, and get sound out of it without jack-dssi-host :/01:45
ailoScottL, This is the launch command from the menu: jack-dssi-host hexter.so01:46
ailoSo, since it is a plugin, it will only work with a host, but the menu starter requires jack-dssi-host01:46
ScottLah, going back upstairs to check this out01:47
ailoI think it makes sense that jack-dssi-host should be installed, since the menu launcher requires it.01:48
ailoIt's sort of the standalone version01:48
ailoWhen people install only hexter and try to start it from the menu, they will think it's broken01:49
holsteinailo: i used to think that about all the stuff in ubuntustudio ;)01:50
ailoAs many do anyway, because they don't realize jack must be started first, but that's another issue :)01:50
ailoholstein, It's too bad that there is no popup from programs telling the user when jack's not running. Probably tough to implement system-wide.01:53
holsteinailo: i dont know why that cant be upstream though01:53
holsteinin debian01:53
holsteinfor all the apps that require JACK01:53
holsteinwhen JACK aint running01:53
holsteininstead of barfing01:54
holsteinjust a little note 01:54
ailoIt would make things a lot easier for sure01:54
holsteinmore clear01:54
holsteinwith IRC though01:55
holsteinits easier01:55
holsteinbefore that01:55
holsteinit literally took me years to get around to understanding what JACK did01:55
ailoOoh, I spent a lot of time googling. And went through many distros and setups before I started getting things01:55
holstein64studio was the first one that worked for me01:56
holsteinfor audio01:56
holsteinthey had a live disc01:56
ScottLokay ailo, i agree with you :)01:56
holsteinand jack started01:56
ScottLbut how are you supposed to use hexter as a stand alone01:56
ailoScottL, Have you tried it? Make sure jack is running and jack-dssi-host is installed, and start it from the menu01:57
ailoholstein, I skipped that one for some reason. I went between Ubuntu Studio and Fedora for a while01:57
ScottLailo, i did, it runs, i made sounds with it01:58
ScottLailo, but what is the use case, how do i control it?01:58
ScottLwithout it being a plugin?01:58
holsteini never got the hang of yum01:58
holsteinor yast01:58
ailoScottL, You need a keyboard to play it, or connect a sequencer's midi out to it01:59
ailoholstein, yum was terribly slow, I felt01:59
holsteinlast time i had a fedora install01:59
holsteinf12 i think01:59
ailoScottL, Try vkeybd01:59
holsteinit was still slow01:59
ailoScottL, And connect through alsa midi tab01:59
ailoholstein, I went from Fedora to CentOS later, which is a clone of Red Hat more or less02:00
ailoholstein, I quit once two of my hard disks died at once. Not sure, but could be because of my hardware + Planet CCRMA's -rt kernel02:01
ScottLailo, okay, i get it now, i'll update the bug in a bit02:01
ScottLi just wanted to make sure there was a reason to fix it02:01
ailoScottL, of course.02:01
ailoScottL, The only reason I think it makes sense to install the jack host is because of the menu launcher.02:02
ailoholstein, That is also when I started disliking -rt a bit. I started to get the experimental bit of it02:03
ailoBut, I was using pretty old hardware. P3 and one of the first AMD sempron's02:04
ailoOne of my problems was I couldn't shut down the system at all02:04
ailoSo, -lowlatency I do prefer over things like that02:05
ailobtw, my kernel build failed. I must need a slightly different procedure. I'll work it out another day.02:10
ScottLailo, would you like me to help you make a patch for hexter?03:04
ScottLi don't believe you would have any significant problems doing it03:04
ScottLi updated the bug by the way03:04
ailoScottL, Sure. But, I don't know how to do it.03:05
ScottLailo, no problem, tomorrow during the day i will post instructions for you03:05
ScottLi expect this to be a great teachable moment :)03:05
ailoScottL, Great. I hope to have some use for that later on.03:06
ScottLailo, to make the patch you will need to download the current code, then make the change which will involve learning about the control file, then create the diff, and then attach the diff to the bug03:29
ScottLlots of good things in there that will benefit you in other areas like packaging03:29
ailoScottL, I think I understand the concept. I will just need to learn about each step and which tools to use, and so on03:31
ailoScottL: I suppose all I need to do is edit the control file to make the jack host a dependency, use dch to create the changelog, and then make a diff and a patch from that diff. Seems like it shouldn't be too many steps03:56
ScottLailo, you got it :)05:26
ScottLthe only thing i would clarify is that you would use dch to update the changelog, as it already exists05:26
* abogani waves all07:10
aboganiailo: ping07:10
abogani1) I really impressive from the good sense and the balance you show in your replies like this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-users/2011-April/007442.html07:12
abogani2) Could you test this https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/snmp++/+packages , please?07:13
aboganiI'm work and I can't test it for next 10 hours at least.07:13
aboganiGood morning to all! Here in Italy today is a shiny day!07:14
aboganiailo: I forgot to mention that the 2.6.39-lowlatency kernel is irq-threaded by default so there isn't need to pass the "threadirqs" kernel parameter at Grub menu. Moreover I have added a new kernel parameter for disable it (that is "nothreadirqs").08:28
aboganiailo: As you already know You should install rtirq-init to let it adjust priorities.08:28
aboganiScottL: ^08:28
aboganiPlease keep in mind that we _have_to_ choose a only one version for -lowlatency kernel (that is 2.6.38 *or* 2.6.39).08:31
aboganiScottL: ^^08:31
aboganiI'm disappointed that falkt doesn't provide back his works on -realtime correlate packages (like nvidia drivers).08:36
aboganiScottL: ^^^08:36
ailoabogani, We have a little sunlight here too and it's just about spring here. Trying out your kernel..12:04
ailoI'm doing 32 frames/period with the 2.6.39 -lowlatency and the rtirq-init script with no xruns. 12:44
ailo1.45 ms latency12:45
ailoI can even start at 16 frames/period, but my onboard sound-card can't take that. I get more than 200 xruns a second. 32 frames/period is fine12:46
aboganiailo: Sorry I don't remember numbers for 2.6.38-lowlatency. Which works better?12:48
ailoabogani, I need to test more, but so far, I can lower the frames/period by half on 2.6.3912:50
aboganiailo: impressive12:50
ailoHopefully there are no random xruns. I will try to get some.12:50
aboganiailo: Ok12:51
ailoabogani, I don't seem to get xruns like I did with 2.6.38, but when I uncompress a file, I will get a couple.13:03
ailoOn 2.6.38 it was just a matter of time, every 2 minutes or so.13:03
aboganiailo: So 39 is better?13:04
aboganiailo: by the way Are you using one of evil video closed drivers?13:05
aboganiailo: by the way Are you using one of evil video closed drivers?13:23
ailoabogani, I was not able to install nvidia-current.13:23
aboganiailo: 39? 38? or both?13:24
ailoOnly 3913:24
ScottLabogani, i think we the answer for kernel version is 2.6.39 for -lowtlatency, i expect it would be stable by the time we release ocelot and it has the benefit of irq-threading as you mention13:24
ScottLabogani, i can talk to falk about providing his work, but couldn't we also take the source from his ppa?13:25
ailoScottL, I'm sure it will be long before that. Maybe the kernel for Ocelot will be a higher version. But, we need to test the -generic as well13:25
ailovlc is not to be recommended with jack, though. Had it playing while I did other things. It doesn't give xruns, but the sound will sometimes get crackled. I know from a few years ago, vlc could sound like a tape recorder, that started slowly. Very strange behaviour from a software audio player13:32
ailoabogani, It was some time ago now, but I tried a test where I used pd to flood the cpu in non realtime more on both cpu's. No xruns. Now, the two pd processes behave differently, and I get xruns when flooding the cpu, though only a couple. 13:37
ailoI never tried compiling, or uncompressing/compressing with 2.6.38. I will try that later to see the difference13:38
aboganiailo: Ok.13:38
aboganiTonight I'll investigate about nvidia-current.13:39
aboganiailo: ^13:39
ailoabogani, It looks very promising. Interesting to see if -generic can deliver as well.13:40
aboganiailo: Could you give me the rtirq's output, please?13:42
* abogani doesn't like rtirq...13:43
ailoabogani, How was it I did that?13:43
ailoBad news. I get a few odd xruns, even when there's not much going on.13:45
aboganiailo: I suppose grepping in /var/log/: sudo grep -ri priorities /var/log/13:45
aboganiailo: :-(13:46
ailoabogani, http://paste.ubuntu.com/590738/13:48
aboganiailo: rtirq is stupid.13:49
ailoabogani, Not the right devices get prio?13:51
* ailo needs to walk the dog and will come back later13:53
aboganiailo: good walk13:54
holsteinailo: so, 3d is not really optional for gnome3?15:24
holsteini mean, i guess that is how to move forward15:25
holsteinto utilize that technology15:25
holsteinand make things look slick15:25
holsteinif the heavy lifting is off on the GPU15:25
holsteinthen why not15:26
falktxgnome3 is still F*** ugly15:27
holsteinfalktx: lol15:27
ailoholstein, You need video acceleration, so not really 3d, but still, you need drivers. I think it's 2d acceleration15:27
ailofalktx, I'15:27
holsteinailo: i think that could be a deal breaker15:28
ailoI'm surprised they haven't been working on the looks that much15:28
holsteinwe should talk about that though15:28
falktxunity 3x better than gnome315:28
holsteinubuntustudio has never really been that low-resource distro15:28
ailoholstein, Well, in the past, I would say yes15:28
ailoI can see how Gnome3 will become a good system. It needs to be tweakable.15:29
ailoholstein, I think the problem is that open source graphic drivers aren't better yet.15:30
falktxailo: gnome3 has the same issues has kde4.0, it's just too new (and probably unstable)15:30
holsteini dont think we can depend on them15:30
holsteinunity added the 2d version15:31
holsteinand i thought that was a good call15:31
falktxholstein: hehe, unity2d uses Qt, not gtk...15:32
falktxquite a weird call there I think15:32
holsteinfalktx: im just glad its not required15:32
ailofalktx, Maybe not. They are moving on to Wayland as well, as will Gnome3 later on. 15:32
scott-workfalktx: i tried the fedora gnome 3 live disc several days ago and thought it looked pretty good15:32
holsteinfor those that dont have good driver support for their hardware15:33
ailoholstein, I think most systems are supported, but there are still a few that are not15:33
ailoMy onboard nvidia 7025 is not working very well, for instance, but my pci Express 7300 is15:33
ailoBoth nvidia15:34
scott-workailo: "ailoBad news. I get a few odd xruns, even when there's not much going on."   which kernel was this for?15:34
ailoscott-work, 2.6.39. 15:34
scott-workailo: -generic or -lowlatency?15:34
ailoscott-work, aboganis -lowlatency. 15:34
scott-workfalktx: is there some way that we (ubuntu studio team) can use some of your video drivers?15:35
* holstein gotta run15:35
holsteinl8r folkz15:35
ailoHard to say if the xruns occur randomly, since now I'm getting xruns from things I didn't before, however, I can also get lower latencies15:35
ailoAlso, I've noticed that jackd does not always get control of the sound card right away. Now, jackd crashed and made qjackctl freeze. Often I have to start jackd 2 times before it starts15:38
ailoAlso, trying to mess with PA while jackd is running can crash something15:40
falktxailo: r u using jack2?15:44
ailofalktx, No I wasn't. You think that makes a difference?15:45
falktxailo: yes15:45
falktxailo: for PA and jack to work together, you need jack215:45
ailofalktx, I will try with jackd2 then15:45
ailofalktx, I'm not using any bridge.15:46
falktxi know15:46
falktxailo: jack2 stops PA while starting (if possible)15:46
ailoAh, it does? That's too bad15:46
falktxailo: when jack2 is stopped, PA gets re-started15:46
ailofalktx, I would rather qjackctl does that, which it does15:46
ailofalktx, Makes it impossible to run PA and jackd at the same time, which I sometimes do15:47
ailoWith different cards15:48
falktxailo: just use my script15:48
falktxoh, different cards...15:48
ailoI'm getting different results with 2.6.38 than I did before too. This is no fun :(15:55
ailoI don't know. The latest kernel seems to give me lower latencies, but I'm still not getting more reliable performance.16:30
aboganiailo: You should compare the worst case not the best one.16:31
aboganiPerhaps we should let someone firewire user do the tests...16:32
ailoabogani, Absolutely. That would be the greatest benefit anyway16:33
ailoholstein, ronj, autostatic are the ones I know have them, but I don't know who has irq share problems. Perhaps holstein could arrange to give himself a problem16:35
ailoabogani, At a little higher latency, which is really all I think anyone would need (under 10 ms), it seems very stable. But, it's hard to know, if it will be stable days and months in a row. But, that is perhaps too much to ask :). So, if firewire works with this, I think there's no questions this is a very good kernel.16:46
ailoI will need to test on other cards too. I've been doing all these tests on a onboard card, which is not meant for pro audio anyway.16:56
holsteinailo abogani i have a test machine i coule 'break' or whatever17:40
holsteinif you guys help me with the how-too's17:41
holsteini'll be in and out today17:42
holsteini could probably make time to test something over the weekend17:42
holsteinor late nite for me17:42
ailoholstein, The best thing would be if you have an irq share problem. I wouldn't want you to test on a machine that you are afraid to break. I had a system freeze myself once already.17:54
ailoholstein, But, I assume you don't have any irq problems on any system?17:54
holsteinailo: not with FW18:32
holsteinwith usb i do18:32
holsteinbut i dont think that helps18:32
ailoholstein, You usually get bad performance from the usb device?18:44
holsteinailo: depends18:44
holsteini had* one that was just horrible18:44
holsteinthere were like 8 things on one IRQ18:44
ailoholstein, That sounds like a dream situations18:45
scott-work_ailo: this video shows that you are right about gnom3 and single app focus:  http://www.youtube.com/user/GNOMEDesktop#p/u/4/bRHAio98n-g19:01
scott-work_and here is some good window management items:  http://www.youtube.com/user/GNOMEDesktop#p/u/5/Ip9Bgjaspjs19:03
scott-work_gnome3 might not be so bad after all :P19:03
ailoscott-work, I was just about to paste that :)19:04
ailoscott-work_, The panel is gone, and the menu system is different, but overall, window management, and just working with programs should not be any different19:05
ailoA little different maybe19:05
scott-work_ailo: i'm sorely tempted to find time to install vanilla ubuntu, add the gnome3 ppa, and then install studio apps and see how it does19:05
scott-work_maybe even record some of the things with gtk-recordmydesktop to show people19:06
ailoscott-work_, We should at least try it, I think. The main problem I see is if graphic cards are not supported, but hopefully they will keep a fallback option until they are sure practically every system will work with it19:07
ailoAlso, it's interesting to see what kind of a performance difference there is, or if it takes much more memory and so on.19:15
ailoOk. Time to start testing with m-audio now. Hopefully it's much more stable :P19:16
=== irvie is now known as irv
ailoscott-work_, Actually I got corrupted graphics from installing Ubuntu Studio Natty as well, now that I think of it. I need to install nvidia drivers in order for it to work. Updating now, so let's see if I can do without nvidia drivers first20:25
ailoYes, it's working without drivers.20:27
=== quadrispro is now known as gaspa
=== gaspa is now known as quadrispro
holsteingnome3 has keyboard shortcuts to switch between workspaces21:14
holsteinim not clear on how that can be listed as a *new* feature21:15
holsteinbut whatever21:15
* ckontros waves21:18
ailoabogani: On my other system, I get worse performance with 2.6.39, while 2.6.38 is the same21:24
ailoWhat's up ckontros?21:26
ckontrosJust got home from work. Gonna write some Studio emails regarding the switch the the XFCE desktop.21:30
ailockontros, Have we definitely decided yet? I would like to wait a little.21:30
ailoOr, you want to get opinions?21:30
holsteinyeah, i agree21:33
holsteincareful what/who you stir up ckontros 21:33
holsteinsince the meeting, we're been kicking it around quite a bit in here21:34
ckontrosI'll elaborate.21:34
ckontros"Some emails" would 1st be to the Studio-dev list regarding specific UI ideas.21:35
ckontrosThen based on feedback, adjust.21:35
holsteinckontros: cool21:36
ckontrosIn the absence of major issues/reservations/changes, I would then reach out the the guys in xubuntu-devel.21:36
scott-work_hi ckontros 21:37
ckontrosIf there's anything ne wsince the meeting, I'm listening. :)21:37
ailoWe should take a good look at Unity and Gnome3 before we form an opinion, I think. There's not much done on that yet, I believe.21:37
* ckontros waves @ Scott.21:37
holsteinckontros: nothing new really21:37
holsteinwe were just discussing gnome321:37
holsteinand unity of course21:37
holsteinas options21:37
holstein*and KDE21:37
* scott-work_ has to talk to boss a bit, be back21:37
ckontrosailo: For 11.10 Unity and GNOME 3 simply arent an option. IMO.21:38
ailockontros, Why so?21:38
ckontrosEven long-term, I do not feel they fit out users use-case.21:38
holsteinthe valid argument is that a move to XFCE doesnt feel like a step forward21:38
ckontrosDoes it have to be?21:39
* ckontros missed that memo.21:39
holsteinthats the question21:39
ailoI think we should find out. Gnome3 just came out. Unity is under heavy development. At least regarding Gnome3, I feel, it would not be a huge step.21:39
ckontrosholstein: IMO, no. It doesnt need to be.21:40
ckontrosLike mentioned in the meeting, there seems to be the move to develop a desktop enviornmet where 1 app is the focus. Not multitasking.21:41
ckontrosWhich, in the worls of audio work, doesnt happen.21:41
ailoFrom looking at Gnome3, it looks very similar to Gnome2, except it has a new menu system. There's no theming yet, and one would need to find out how the menu can be tweaked. There will be a fallback option, and soon there won't be one needed anyway.21:41
holsteini like the XFCE idea21:41
holsteini think its lighter21:42
holsteinand more appropriate21:42
holsteinbut, i also think thats a valid argument21:42
holsteinwe are not moving forward to anything more modern21:42
ailockontros, I don't think that is the case with Gnome3. It is very much a multitasking desktop. With multiple windows and workspaces21:42
ckontrosailo: Its not so much about looks. Its about how windows/apps are managed.21:42
scott-work_ack, back...we have a big, big project submitting soon, and i'm getting dragged into it21:42
* scott-work_ is reading backscroll now21:42
ckontrosNo problen Scott.21:43
ckontrosailo: For 11.10 I also feel GNOME-Shell in Ubuntu will not be what is will be in other distros  because of Canonical going with Unity.21:44
ailoUnity, I have hardly tried, so I can't form an opinion on that at all.21:44
ckontrosI already know Unity and GNOME-Shell will not happily run together in 11.04.21:44
ailoI think we should do what scott-work_ suggested. Try gnome3 with Ubuntu Studio packages and see how it flies. The same with Unity.21:45
ailoThat's all I'm rooting for, to try them out21:45
ailoOr, is rooting not the right term? :P21:46
holsteinyeah, im comfortable with doing some research21:46
holsteinim also comfortable with planning XFCE for 11.0421:47
ckontros"Try" in what sense? *note I've been tinkering with both with many of our apps and found it to massively interrupt my workflow.21:47
holsteinassuming we could change to gnome3 after that as some point21:47
holsteinif we wanted21:47
ckontrosI believe XFCE (which will get GTK updates im sure) will offer the the best transition.21:48
ckontros(for everyone)21:48
ckontrosRemember we're not a desktop OS. We're very niche and shoud cater to our users workflows.21:48
holsteinckontros: agreed21:49
ckontrosWhereas Ubuntu can afford to mix things up a bit more.21:49
holsteini also think we should consider the users that come from ubuntu21:49
ailoholstein, I agree with that.21:49
holsteinand have certain expectations21:49
ckontrosSo please feel free to post to the thread I'll most likely post tomorrow. :)21:49
holsteinnot that we have to cater to them21:49
holsteinbut, we are at the beginnings of a big move21:49
holsteinand i think its healthy to explore options21:50
holsteinand discuss21:50
ailoI would at least want to try things out before I form an opinion. Would be good to start now, I guess.21:51
ckontrosOne big issue I see so far with going w/XFCE without panels (just AWN) is that there's no network-manager applet for AWN. Otherwise, most things seem to be replaceable with AWN.21:51
ailockontros, Why AWN?21:51
ckontrosSo, if we can solve that it might be best to take on the new Xubuntu layout altogether.21:51
holsteinyeah, im not a fan of 'no panel'21:52
holsteinthats way different than what most people are used to seeing21:52
ckontrosailo: Did you read back the notes from the meeting?21:52
holsteinim open to exploring AWN though21:52
holsteinbecause its slick looking21:52
holsteinbut, personally, i dont need the overhead for a clickable icon21:53
holsteinwhich is mostly what i would use it for21:53
ailockontros, I saw it mentioned, but I didn't read much further than that.21:53
ckontrosholstein: I dont feel its so different considering the # of screenshots with folks using some sort of "dock".21:53
holsteinckontros: right, but not a dock without a panel21:53
ailoPerhaps we need testing iso's?21:53
ailoIf we could arrange to get some out, perhaps we could ask for opinions too.21:54
holsteinim all on board for XFCE personally21:54
holsteini just didnt know that AWN was part of the deal21:55
holsteinagain, im open to checking it out though21:55
ckontrosholstein: Sure. Will be different, but slick. ;) And honestly, this is an area where I feel less strongly. (whereas I feel the move to XFCE is totally the right one)21:55
ckontrosailo: Please let me set up a base conversation first. GEt ideas going, then I can change the seeds to get disks built from Canonical directly.21:56
holsteinckontros: COOL21:56
holsteinyeah, that might be helpful21:56
holsteinwouldnt need to have much in there really21:56
ckontrosThis will also take discussion w/the Edubuntu folks as they have made strides w/package selection in the GUI installer.21:56
holsteinjust the UI layout21:56
ailockontros, I was thinking we could use a testing iso with Gnome3 as well. Unity isn't hard to do, since it's already a part of Ubuntu.21:57
ckontrosailo: You free to do what you like as long as you're not touching the official Studio seeds.21:58
scott-work_back, more quick meeting about this project....like aftershocks from an earthquake21:59
ckontrosscott-work_ You want me to stop chatting 'till you can get home from work? (and interact)21:59
* scott-work_ is re-reading backscroll again21:59
scott-work_ckontros: nah, i should be able to focus on this for the next twenty minutes22:00
ailoIf this was any other distro than Ubuntu Studio, I would agree on XFCE without blinking.22:00
ckontrosailo: Can you explain how it matters to you? (meant genuinely though it can sound confrontational)22:01
ailockontros, I'm just considering that Ubuntu Studio should be very broad and available to all. XFCE works, no doubt. Would Gnome3 work as good, or even better?22:03
ckontrosailo: I feel for 11.10, no. Later, maybe. KDE has come very far since its initial 4.0 release.22:06
ckontrosGNOME3 Im sure will get better.22:06
ckontrosThough personally Ill be switching to KDE or XFCE for my desktops for the foreseeable future.22:07
scott-work_alright, read backscroll22:07
ailoOne thing that I think about sometimes is that perhaps the LTS should be recommended first, so that the releases in between don't need to be as polished.22:07
scott-work_i am curious to see how gnome3 works with studio packages, that is true22:08
ailoBut, I guess, cause people want updated programs, they always go for the latest22:08
scott-work_but i think moving to xfce (via xubuntu work) offers us many advantages over others though22:08
ckontrosscott-work_: "how it works" is too dam general. :) We need to ask specific questions.22:08
ckontrosGenerally, everything will run. :)22:09
scott-work_i have faith in what cory is doing as well for the UI with xfce22:09
scott-work_ckontros: yes, i meant more workflow22:09
ckontrosscott-work_: Testing in 11.04 w/Unity will be easy enough. But GNOME3 will be availiable an official PPA but is said to break and not work w/Unity installed.22:10
ckontrosSo, testing there will be hard.22:10
ckontrosAsking folks to break their desktops.22:10
ckontrosOr simple testing installs.22:10
ckontrosWhich, doesnt really put things through it paces day-to-day.22:11
scott-work_would it be grossly different to install xubuntu and then add gnome3, boot into gnome3 xsession during login?22:11
ckontrosHmm... Good question.22:11
scott-work_or i could start with ubuntu studio couldn't i, then add gnome3?22:11
scott-work_i have a spare machine, i'm not worried about borking it22:11
ckontrosOnly thing I could imaging is some GTK oddness? IDK. :)22:12
ailoI guess one could install a minimal ubuntu first, add the PPA via terminal, and then install Gnome3, just for testing purposes22:12
ckontrosOh me either. Its just normal users Im thinking about.22:12
scott-work_but keeping it pertinent, i would expect gnome3 to peform at best the same as gnome2...so no real benefit or improvement22:12
scott-work_at worse, gnome3 could happen workflow...severely22:13
ckontrosailo: Yes. This is how I built early Studio setups and even some of my desktops.22:13
scott-work_but xubuntu most likely wouldn't happen workflows22:13
scott-work_and xubuntu has many positives about that other DE will not provide22:13
ckontrosscott-work_: I know the RAM requiremtnts are quite a bit higher but shouldnt be an issue for Studio folks.22:13
scott-work_i am certainly leaning towards xubuntu because of those benefits22:14
scott-work_using xfce would also certainly be sustainable22:15
ckontrosOk. Im gonna chill for the rest of the night. Ill get that email together and post it sometime tomorrow. I'm still on Freenode if anyone needs to PM.22:15
scott-work_ckontros: i'll catch you later tonight then :)22:16
scott-work_bump it, i'm going home too then :P22:16
ailoExiting times..22:17
holsteinexit-ing too apparently ;)22:18
ailoholstein, Lucky choice of words22:19
ailoOne thing I'm definitely doing for natty+1 is I'm devoting some time on -controls. That's a promise.22:45

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