[01:02] <jbicha> jbwiv_: did you get your question answered yet?
[01:38] <broder> Hmm...so I have two different ATI cards, both running with fglrx. One detects hotplugs; the other doesn't, but detects the new display if I run xrandr -q. I know fglrx is unsupported territory, but does anybody have thoughts on where I could look a priori to determine whether hotplug works or not?
[01:38] <broder> The alternative is to background a shell script running "while true; do xrandr -q; sleep 5; done", which just seems kind of lame
[01:40] <broder> (well, I guess I'll have to do that for Card #2, but doing it for Card #1 as well just seems unfortunate if it's avoidable)
[01:43] <mterry> broder, not sure myself; but you may have better luck in #ubuntu, which is the support channel.  This is a development channel
[02:03] <RAOF> broder: That's a fine question; I'd guess you'll find that it's based on card generation, but that's possibly the sort of thing that individual card manufacturers can screw up, too.
[02:21] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone!
[02:37] <jbicha> good morning
[02:48] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Good morning, for it is still just morning for me. :)
[02:49] <chrisccoulson> TheMuso, hi! yeah, it's morning here for me too :)
[02:54] <jbicha> definitely not morning here in the US
[02:57] <bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, who would approve -devel e-mails to the list (i just replied to the unity as default e-mail)?
[02:59] <bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, morning :( im about to contemplate going to bed
[03:05] <bcurtiswx> where is the wiki for travel info to pair up for UDS ?
[03:07] <rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, did it not go through?
[03:07] <bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, i got a bounce e-mail from -devel
[03:07] <bcurtiswx> not sure exactly
[03:07] <rickspencer3> It may appear to be a couple steps back, but I think in the end we
[03:07] <rickspencer3> will find that Unity as the default desktop environment for 11.04 will
[03:07] <rickspencer3> be a gigantic leap forward later on.
[03:07] <rickspencer3> ?
[03:08] <bcurtiswx> the amount of attention it will receive if we make it default now vs later
[03:09] <rickspencer3> bcurtiswx, oh, right
[03:09] <rickspencer3> sorry, I was just trying to confirm for you that your mail got through
[03:10] <rickspencer3> thanks for hte note bcurtiswx
[03:10] <bcurtiswx> rickspencer3, ah OK. thanks for allowing another voice
[03:11] <TheMuso> I think bcurtiswx is referring to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com.
[03:11] <bcurtiswx> TheMuso, I am
[03:11] <bcurtiswx> but now i'm confused
[03:11] <TheMuso> Right, I am not sure who has mod powers on that list.
[03:11] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, did his email not come through there?
[03:11] <jcastro> it went through
[03:11] <rickspencer3> maybe it only came throuhg on the desktop list, I got it twice
[03:12] <TheMuso> Haven't checked, ahng on.
[03:12] <rickspencer3> jcastro, but I wrote to @u-desktop, and cc'ed u-devel
[03:12] <bcurtiswx> jcastro, thx
[03:12] <rickspencer3> anyway, TheMuso, RAOF, robert_ancell, if you disagree, you can raise the issue with your no-good-boss jasoncwarner1 ;)
[03:12] <jcastro> oh right, I see that
[03:13] <TheMuso> I have no issue with it. :)
[03:13] <TheMuso> I can't wait to be able to use it more.
[03:14]  * RAOF waits for his mail to finish filtering.
[03:17] <rickspencer3> hi all
[03:18] <ayan> hi!
[03:19] <rickspencer3> ayan, says that he just upgraded, it sounds like he's getting only the classic desktop, but he wants Unity
[03:20] <rickspencer3> ayan, did you choose Ubuntu when you logged in?
[03:20] <ayan> ah ha!  my unity does not support my graphics hardware.
[03:20] <ayan> just fyi, i'm using a thinkpad x201.
[03:21] <rickspencer3> ayan, well, you could try installing hte Qt version
[03:22] <RAOF> ayan: Which particular x201?  They should all be pretty well supported, as they're using Intel graphics, but there's all sorts of variation possible.
[03:24] <ayan> RAOF: how do i distinuish it from other x201?  would you like the model number?
[03:24] <RAOF> robert_ancell: You're a GTK god, right?  Banshee seems to be consuming ~10% CPU while playing music due to the position slider being updated at 5Hz, but it looks like it's triggering an expose event for the entire window.  Is that something gtk normally does?
[03:25] <RAOF> ayan: The question is mostly how new it is, and what CPU it has.  Another factor is whether it uses eDP or LVDS (and there's not a trivial way to find out, really), but since you can apparently *see* stuff on the screen that's not likely to be a problem :)
[03:25] <RAOF> ayan: This is probably better done in #ubuntu-x, too.
[03:25] <robert_ancell> RAOF, um, don't know it that well.  This is GTK2 right?  I think it would have to, to draw the window underneath the slider.   But the area should only be under the slider and nothing else should need drawing
[03:26] <robert_ancell> RAOF, does banshee have a lot of custom drawing in the main window expose method?
[03:26] <RAOF> Banshee is *all about* custom drawing.
[03:26] <robert_ancell> yeah, I thought that might be the case
[03:26] <rickspencer3> simple-player by default in 11.10?
[03:27] <rickspencer3> it shows the song title
[03:27] <RAOF> I'll check my hypothesis then go expose hunting.
[03:27] <robert_ancell> RAOF, thinking about it, it really must draw the background - if you had a pixmap window background then it would have to draw it, then the slider elements over it
[03:27] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Muinshee works too, presumably because it's got a much simpler main window :).
[03:27]  * robert_ancell -> lunch
[03:32] <RAOF> Ah.  I see we've managed to hook up fsck.btrfs to the boot sequence now.  Hurray ☹.
[03:36] <TheMuso> RAOF: hrm interesting. I thought that would have been one of the first things that needed doing for btrfs support. :)
[03:37] <RAOF> Well, given fsck.btrfs doesn't actually *fix* any errors yet I can see why it might have been lowish priority :)
[03:38] <TheMuso> Ah, right.
[03:38] <TheMuso> Probably because the FS is still maturing.
[03:42] <jcastro> RAOF: did dbo and/or smspillaz talk to you guys about documenting video hw requirements for unity?
[03:43] <RAOF> jcastro: Not as far as I'm aware.
[03:44] <jcastro> don't worry they were going to do it, I just told them to run it by you guys first.
[03:44]  * jcastro will follow up with them
[04:44] <RAOF> Wow.  Why is text rendering so expensive?
[04:45] <lifeless> RAOF: 3d ?
[04:45] <RAOF> No; A (pretty simple) pango layout.
[04:46] <RAOF> But rendering “1:02 of 3:33” at 5Hz results in ~5% CPU utilisation.
[04:47] <lifeless> win
[04:48] <RAOF> Yeah.
[04:49] <lifeless> try xterm :P
[04:49]  * lifeless doesn't have any pango based text visible on screen most of the time
[04:50] <RAOF> Yay bitmap fonts.
[04:50] <lifeless> hmm, I thought it did them all these days
[06:08] <RAOF> Ok.  I've got *most* of the Banshee CPU use killed.
[06:08] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I don't suppose you'd know whether receiving two essentially simultaneous expose-events for a widget is normal?
[06:08] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I would have thought that shouldn't happen
[06:09] <RAOF> So would I.
[06:09] <robert_ancell> is anything calling the expose handler directly?
[06:09] <RAOF> Not that I can tell.
[06:09] <robert_ancell> otherwise everything should just call gtk_widget_queue_draw and only one redraw occurs
[06:10] <robert_ancell> does anything call queue_draw inside the expose event?
[06:10] <RAOF> Sequence is: UpdateLabel() calls QueueResize(); OnSizeRequested gets called exactly once; OnExposeEvent gets called twice.
[06:11] <RAOF> The only thing which could possibly do that is the call to PaintLayout, but if that were the case I'd expect to get an unending stream of redraw events, as it's called each redraw.
[06:12] <robert_ancell> RAOF, hmm, I just made a little PyGTK example.  There are four exposes on startup, and two when queue_resize is called
[06:12] <robert_ancell> but they have different areas
[06:13] <RAOF> (Specifically, that's gtk_paint_layout())
[06:13] <robert_ancell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/591096/
[06:13] <RAOF> Hm.  I get identical areas.
[06:16] <RAOF> Although that might be because the actual size isn't changing.
[06:18] <RAOF> Hm.  And if I don't redraw the second time I don't get any text.
[06:22] <RAOF> And if I don't redraw the *first* time and do the second time the text is there.  Presumably the first redraw is clearing the background, or somesuch.
[07:02] <robert_ancell> RAOF, hey, do you know why we didn't go with mono 2.10 in natty?
[07:02] <RAOF> Yup.
[07:02] <RAOF> Because it wasn't packaged until about 5 days ago.
[07:02] <RAOF> And 2.10 had a bunch of regressions.
[07:02] <robert_ancell> fixed now?
[07:03] <RAOF> Yeah.
[07:03] <RAOF> Mono's really maintained in Debian, so the freeze had a certain chilling effect, too.
[07:04] <RAOF> But 2.10.1 is in experimental now, so we'll have it in Oneiric early.
[07:07] <smspillaz> RAOF: poke
[07:07] <smspillaz> RAOF: was the nvidia driver updated recently ?
[07:07] <RAOF> Um...
[07:07] <RAOF> Not by me, obviously.
[07:07] <smspillaz> (I'm looking at bug 752445)
[07:08] <smspillaz> RAOF: ah, well in the pacakge ?
[07:08] <RAOF> Most recent change was 18 Mar.
[07:08] <smspillaz> I'm thinking that we must have gotten a broken driver and was wondering if we could revert it if possible
[07:09] <smspillaz> since window contents should definitely *not* be white just because the card is running low on texture memory (it only happens with large windows which is why I suppose this happens)
[07:09] <smspillaz> I haven't been able to confirm this myself unforuntately
[07:10] <RAOF> Bah.
[07:10] <smspillaz> yeah, exactly
[07:10] <RAOF> Hurray for the black window bug!
[07:11] <smspillaz> RAOF: I'm wondering if this is related to the memory usage smackdown
[07:11] <RAOF> Now back, but, like the iPad, available in white!
[07:11]  * TheMuso can check natty-changes for the last upload if thats of any help.
[07:11] <smspillaz> RAOF: I haven't been able to get any compiz logs of this, but I would imagine that glXTexturePixmapEXT is returning false because the server could never allocate the pixmap
[07:12] <TheMuso> Yeah 18 march with a new upstream release.
[07:12] <TheMuso> Trouble is, the new upstream release properly supports the new ABI...
[07:12] <smspillaz> brilliant
[07:12] <smspillaz> this is why prorprietary drivers suck

[07:13] <RAOF> smspillaz: Time to force indirect rendering on nvidia again? :)
[07:13] <smspillaz> RAOF: unity doesn't work with indirect rendering
[07:13] <smspillaz> RAOF: it needs the available GL version to be >= 2.0
[07:13] <smspillaz> otherwise it willdie
[07:14] <RAOF> nvidia's GLX doesn't have protocol for newer GL?
[07:14]  * RAOF has never tried, obviously.
[07:14] <smspillaz> RAOF: I'm pretty sure the server GLX protocol only goes up to 1.6 ?
[07:14] <RAOF> smspillaz: The *open source* GLX protocol goes up to 1.4, but the nvidia drivers replace that.
[07:14] <smspillaz> RAOF: I guess what we could do for a workaround is try to detect where texture bindinding failed and attempt to re-bind a few seconds later once the server's got its stuff together
[07:15] <smspillaz> RAOF: Hm, I don't really have unity available to try on me right now, so I can't confirm if --indirect-rendering will work or not
[07:15] <RAOF> Now that's the sort of high-quality workaround we like to see :)
[07:15] <smspillaz> *sigh*
[07:16] <smspillaz> RAOF: unfortunately, we can't rely on nvidia to fix this
[07:16] <smspillaz> and I see this going from "high" to nuclear if we don't do something about it
[07:16] <RAOF> It'll only affect crappy nvidia cards… :)
[07:16] <smspillaz> unfortunately we have to support crappy nvidia cards
[07:16] <smspillaz> and crappy drivers too
[07:17] <RAOF> You're right that nvidia won't have a fix by release time, though.
[07:17] <smspillaz> indeed
[07:17] <smspillaz> RAOF: indirect is an option if we can make it work, however we got forced to indirect by fglrx and look at that disaster
[07:17] <smspillaz> indirect is also really slow
[07:17] <smspillaz> it will make unity slow
[07:18] <RAOF> Isn't unity already slow on nvidia?  I seem to remember reports of such.
[07:18] <smspillaz> its quite snappy on both nvidia and nouveau
[07:18] <RAOF> I've tested on nouveau, yeah.  Just not nvidia.
[07:19] <smspillaz> why does that seem strangely familiar
[07:21] <RAOF> :)
[07:27]  * micahg is running nvidia ATM
[07:29] <TheMuso> RAOF: Have you ever looked into how one could force sbuild to continue should there be a checksum mismatch with archive package metadata?
[07:30] <TheMuso> Granted I haven't either, but you may know of something that would take me a while to find out otherwise.
[07:30] <TheMuso> Since you have explored sbuild in greater depth than I.
[07:30] <lifeless> ...
[07:30] <lifeless> that seems undesirable
[07:30] <RAOF> What do you mean?  In the case of a package download having an incorrect checksum?
[07:30] <lifeless> nag mvo to make apt try harder
[07:32] <TheMuso> Yeah I know its undesirable, but sbuild never checked/updated archive metadata in the past...
[07:32] <RAOF> Oh, you mean the pre-build apt update?
[07:33] <RAOF> set $apt_update = 0; in ~/.sbuildrc
[07:33] <TheMuso> ooh thanks
[07:36] <didrocks> good morning
[07:38] <TheMuso> Hey didrocks.
[07:38] <didrocks> hey TheMuso :)
[07:39] <RAOF> Hey didrocks
[07:39] <didrocks> evening RAOF
[07:40] <pitti> Good morning
[07:40] <TheMuso> Hey pitti.
[07:40] <RAOF> Heya pitti
[07:41] <pitti> hey RAOF, hello TheMuso!
[07:42] <didrocks> morning pitti
[07:42] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
[07:43]  * bryceh_ waves
[07:43] <didrocks> pitti: ça va bien, merci! :-) you?
[07:43] <didrocks> hey bryceh_
[07:43] <bryceh_> heya didrocks
[07:43] <pitti> pretty well, thanks!
[07:45] <TheMuso> Ah crap, taking out the games from powerpc only knocked off 4MB. :S
[07:45] <TheMuso> I guess next step is to try and knock off all dev related packages...
[07:53] <smspillaz> morning didrocks
[07:53] <didrocks> hey smspillaz
[08:22] <smspillaz> fta2: poke
[08:28] <pitti> TheMuso: do we actually have that many? you mean gcc/binutils/linux-headers etc?
[08:29] <TheMuso> pitti: yeah, mostly gcc/binutils, since kernel headers were cut in the maverick cycle.
[08:29] <Sweetshark> Morning all
[08:29] <TheMuso> I haven't looked hard, because I was hoping the games alone would be enough, but obviously not.
[08:29] <pitti> hey Sweetshark
[08:30] <pitti> an extra kernel weighs a lot :-(
[08:34] <TheMuso> pitti: Yeah but I am tlaking about headers only here. I can't really drop one or the other unfortunately.
[08:34] <TheMuso> I can't drop one kernel or the other.
[08:45] <Sweetshark> bug 512395 is kind of pointless as the dekstop files are currently generated directly in the packaging, right?
[08:46] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:46] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_, Sweetshark
[08:47] <rodrigo_> hi didrocks, Sweetshark :)
[09:08] <pitti> Riddell: good morning
[09:08] <pitti> Riddell: is the package split in bug 597254 on your radar?
[09:10] <pitti> rodrigo_: hey, how are you?
[09:10] <pitti> rodrigo_: can you please give me a quick status about bug 649809? is the problem there understood, so it's mainly a manpower issue, or still needs to be debugged?
[09:13] <fta2> smspillaz, hi
[09:13] <rodrigo_> pitti, still trying to find what's failing
[09:13] <fta2> pitti, hi, is the retracer dead (once again)?
[09:13] <rodrigo_> pitti, I thought it was the u1's g-s-d plugin, since on vanilla version it works for everyone
[09:14] <smspillaz> fta2: describe in detail this "screen corruption" issue you're having and exact instructions to reproduce
[09:14] <pitti> fta2: yes, someone updated udev again, which keeps breaking the dist-upgrade; fixing
[09:14] <smspillaz> and whether or not you are on nvidia
[09:14] <pitti> rodrigo_: ah, thanks; so in the "debugging" phase then?
[09:14] <fta2> smspillaz, which bug?
[09:14] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes
[09:15] <pitti> rodrigo_: do you think that this is a regression and affects so many people that it should be release critical?
[09:15] <smspillaz> fta2: the one you pinged me about yesterday (can't find it in my scrollback)
[09:15] <rodrigo_> pitti, it seems to affect less people than before the fix, so not sure
[09:15] <rodrigo_> pitti, but at least high priority, yes
[09:16] <pitti> rodrigo_: thanks for the heads-up
[09:16] <fta2> smspillaz, hmm, i didn't ping you since you told me to stop with the xterm bug
[09:16] <smspillaz> fta2: right, I know about the xterm bug. didrocks said you had an issue with screen corruption
[09:16] <fta2> smspillaz, but indeed, i filed a regression bug against compiz yesterday
[09:16] <didrocks> not xterm
[09:16] <fta2> smspillaz, with a video
[09:16] <didrocks> chromium
[09:16] <seb128> hey desktopers
[09:17] <smspillaz> fta2: link me to it
[09:17] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:17] <fta2> didrocks, hi, I have a new unity crasher for you :)
[09:17] <fta2> bug 754098
[09:17] <rodrigo_> pitti, hmm, just saw the last comments, some people using maverick, so I guess we should backport the fix to maverick also
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, guten tag! ;-)
[09:17] <rodrigo_> hey seb128
[09:17] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[09:17] <pitti> rodrigo_: oh, you think that they said "still happens for me" because of that?
[09:17] <pitti> good point
[09:18] <rodrigo_> pitti, no, one of them did, not sure about the others, so just asked them in the bug
[09:18] <pitti> rodrigo_: perhaps you can follow up asking if anyone still gets that under natty?
[09:18] <fta2> smspillaz, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/753369
[09:18] <pitti> rodrigo_: great, thanks! crossing fingers :)
[09:18] <smspillaz> fta2: exact instructions to reproduce
[09:18] <smspillaz> there's no video attached
[09:18] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, do I prepare a maverick update anyway?
[09:18] <didrocks> fta2: checking
[09:19] <pitti> rodrigo_: if it's a safe patch and will help people, sure
[09:19] <fta2> smspillaz, no, 753369 for you, 754098 was for didrocks ;)
[09:20] <fta2> smspillaz, the video says it all, any page with a selector will do
[09:20] <smspillaz> there's no video attached to that
[09:20] <rodrigo_> pitti, well, let's see what people answer first
[09:20] <didrocks> fta2: is is private or whatever?
[09:20] <smspillaz> oh found it
[09:20] <didrocks> seems like https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/754098 is invalid
[09:20] <smspillaz> nevermindthat
[09:20] <seb128> didrocks, it's probably not retraced, I'm checking on those
[09:21] <fta2> didrocks, is it? it's waiting for the retracer
[09:21] <smspillaz> fta2: can't reproduce it
[09:21] <smspillaz> fta2: if it's a damage bug at this stage it will be too difficult to look into time wise
[09:21] <fta2> smspillaz, with chromium?
[09:21] <seb128> yeah, the update failed again
[09:21] <smspillaz> fta2: yes
[09:22] <didrocks> smspillaz: I confirm it
[09:22] <didrocks> fta2: nvidia?
[09:22] <fta2> didrocks, yes
[09:22] <smspillaz> didrocks: I can't reproduce it
[09:22] <didrocks> smspillaz: nvidia with proprieratery driver maybe?
[09:22] <smspillaz> and damage issues are *very* *very* *very* difficult to debug
[09:22] <smspillaz> didrocks: I have the properietary driver
[09:22] <seb128> pitti, hum, did you work on the retracers today?
[09:22] <smspillaz> it's very difficult because it requires tight timing and I don't have time to be spending hours on it
[09:22] <pitti> seb128: as we speak
[09:23] <smspillaz> usually race conditions like that are the fault of the driver, there's simply nothing we can do about it
[09:23] <pitti> seb128: i386 fixed/restarted, amd64 fixing right now
[09:23] <seb128> pitti, doh ok, that's why upgrade,dist-upgrade lists 0 package to update
[09:23] <pitti> seb128: see fta2's question from 5 mins ago
[09:23] <fta2> smspillaz, well, it's a regression with the last update, should be easy to track down
[09:23] <seb128> pitti, yeah and see my response
[09:24] <smspillaz> fta2: right, but I can't reproduce it on *either* the update before or the newest update
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: ah, sorry about that then
[09:24] <smspillaz> and the newest update doesn't even touch the damage handling code
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, no worry ;-)
[09:24] <fta2> smspillaz, (last as in when the bug was filed)
[09:24] <smspillaz> right, I know
[09:24] <fta2> smspillaz, which chromium? i see it with ch12 (trunk)
[09:25] <smspillaz> if its a matter of which chromium version you are using then it is *definitely* not a compiz bug
[09:25] <pitti> seb128, fta2: both fixed and restarted
[09:25] <smspillaz> fta2: 10.0.648.204 (79063) FYI
[09:25] <htorque> fwiw, i see similar artifacts with opera (nvidia blob)
[09:25] <fta2> smspillaz, no, i don't know, as i said in the bug, i checked older versions of ch that used to work fine before the last compiz and they are now broken
[09:26] <fta2> hence the regression in compiz
[09:26] <seb128> pitti, thanks, I've cleaned the logs so I'm reading to run my grep magic on those to see what issues were raised and which ones have duplicates today
[09:26] <smspillaz> fta2: right, ok, well the damage code in compiz was *not* touched at all recently
[09:27] <smspillaz> so I can't see any good reason for why that is
[09:27] <fta2> didrocks, the retraced nux crash was http://paste.ubuntu.com/590979/
[09:27] <fta2> didrocks, i had a bamfdaemon crash yesterday too
[09:27] <smspillaz> fta2: (damage == the bit that handles which parts of the screen need redrawing)
[09:27] <didrocks> fta2: can you ping me once both are retraced? I'll add them to the list for a fix release
[09:28] <seb128> pitti, btw I will like send an apport patch your way today to put some extra infos in the retracer logs, like add the ubuntu version and the timestamp to the "Report is a duplicate of" lines
[09:28] <Sweetshark> not good.
[09:28] <pitti> seb128: oh, thanks
[09:28] <seb128> pitti, it would make easier for me to make daily stats about natty crashes and to report the most popular ones
[09:29] <Sweetshark> I clicked around a bit in the system settings->appearance and now my windows controls minimize/maximize/close are on the RIGHT
[09:29] <fta2> didrocks, i didn't file bug for the bamfdaemon crasher, not sure how it happened
[09:30] <fta2> apparently an assert.. "Failed to register GObject with DBusConnection"
[09:31] <fta2> but i can file one if you want
[09:33] <Sweetshark> Does anyone have an idea how I reset that setting? Where is that stored? ~/.compiz?
[09:34] <RAOF> Sweetshark: I'm pretty sure it's in gconf
[09:35] <vish> Sweetshark: /apps/metacity/general/button_layout « you can change there
[09:35] <Sweetshark> vish: also for unity/compiz?
[09:35] <vish> yup
[09:35]  * Sweetshark tries
[09:37] <vish> Sweetshark: if it has not been altered there, it usually is cause the gnome-settings-daemon has bad memory ;p , you'd have to close and reopen the appearance settings and re-select the theme
[09:37] <Riddell> pitti: I dropped our build-depend on srtp and linphone so it should be possible to move to universe now
[09:37] <pitti> or that way around, thanks
[09:37] <Sweetshark> RAOF, vish: thank you very much.
[09:38] <htorque> smspillaz: issue in chromium after bookmarking a page: http://img.xrmb2.net/images/985729.png in opera after closing a bookmark menu: http://img.xrmb2.net/images/955227.png - does not happen without compiz, does only happen with nvidia blob
[09:39]  * Sweetshark is tempted to start a "gconf is like the windows registry"-flamewar. After all it is friday.
[09:39] <smspillaz> htorque: I'll try reinstalling. I cannot reproduce any of these issues
[09:41] <fta2> didrocks, just curious, why can't you see private bugs? I can
[09:42] <vish> pitti: re: the icon for nautilus on launcher, i removed the icon which has a pointer on the folder and the icon of the cabinet is from gnome-icon theme(but seems Mark doesnt like tht either and I'm not sure if anyone is working on a new version, maybe sladen knows or didrocks ); the home folder icon i've pushed to ubuntu-mono and that needs to be released
[09:42] <didrocks> fta2: you need to be susbribed to see it
[09:42] <didrocks> vish: sladen is the design packager
[09:42] <fta2> didrocks, i'm bug control apparently, but maybe you should be too
[09:43] <vish> didrocks: cool! but just letting you know as well, i dont know what's going on there :)
[09:43] <htorque> smspillaz: maybe easier to reproduce: make a gnome-terminal small enough so a menu would stick out of the window, then move the window. here's what i get: http://img.xrmb2.net/images/112558.png
[09:43] <pitti> chrisccoulson: just discussed mono for bug 740815; this will resolve mono, gluezilla, and xulrunner-1.9.2 tasks; so I think the remaining one is LibO
[09:44] <chrisccoulson> pitti - excellent, thanks!
[09:45] <chrisccoulson> pitti - would you mind sponsoring the xdg-utils diff on bug 670128 when you get a few moments please? :)
[09:45] <didrocks> vish: I don't know either, let's wait sladen dealing with that
[09:45] <htorque> smspillaz: sorry, that wasn't a gnome-terminal menu, but the window manager's context menu
[09:45] <pitti> vish: ah, so the effect of the bug is now different (having an "ugly" instead of a "pointer" icon), but still needs to be fixed then
[09:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: sure, queueing
[09:46] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[09:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks for getting this fixed! one more bites the dust \o/
[09:47] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i just need to fix it in chromium too now (that ships a copy of xdg-utils)
[09:47] <chrisccoulson> i'll send the mimeapps.list changes upstream as well
[09:47] <chrisccoulson> i had to fix that bit myself
[09:48] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, that's different to bug 727372, though?
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah. i'll land the patch for that in our packaging branch today
[09:48] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:48] <seb128> how are you?
[09:48] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, thanks; they sounded similar
[09:48] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128, i'm good thanks, how are you?
[09:49] <seb128> I'm fine thanks
[09:55] <pitti> Sweetshark: do you know what LibO needs from xulrunner? we need to drop the build dependency
[10:05] <dpm> hi Sweetshark. I've added a proposal on bug 512395, would you mind checking out if it makes sense?
[10:14] <pitti> I need to run out for a couple of hours to care for my grandma a bit; I expect to be back around 1400 UTC
[10:16] <Sweetshark> pitti: IIRC mostly for adressbook integration for databases and mailmerge. But there is one when building with --disable-mozilla, "macro security" breaks.
[10:19] <Sweetshark> breaks meaning at least: Tools->Options->Security->Macro Security wont open a dialog and wont allow changes (thus giving any selfrespecting admin a heartattack)
[10:31] <Sweetshark> dpm: makes sense from what little i know about the translation infrastructure.
[10:32] <dpm> Sweetshark, cool. Would you be up for having a session at UDS on LO translations going forward?
[10:39] <Sweetshark> dpm: The only thing I have done wrt l10n is rewriting the build system for it. I dont know much about the actual workflow of translators currently. What I remember is that the use pootle, then translate to LOs internal ressource format, which is then used in the build.
[10:40] <Sweetshark> I would have to get it contact with the people doing that stuff first.
[10:42] <dpm> Sweetshark, ok, let me send you an e-mail and let's have a chat about it when you've got a minute
[10:43] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, so, without --disable-mozilla, do you know which parts of mozilla that openoffice is using?
[10:46] <Sweetshark> dpm: great, lets do that.
[10:50] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: hard to define, there is an option to use a precompiled mozilla and not build you own, but that is a _complete_ mozilla build.
[10:52] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: here is one hint: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/libs-extern/libxmlsec/makefile.mk#40
[10:54] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, oh, so is it actually just using nss?
[10:55] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: no
[10:56] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: thats one place, it also uses it for the addressbook around here http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/libs-core/connectivity/source/drivers/mozab/makefile.mk#34
[10:56] <Sweetshark> and that stuff also get used in mailmerge IIRC.
[11:00] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: what is the root problem with the xulrunner build dep?
[11:04] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: according to this: http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17187#c24
[11:05] <Sweetshark> --disable-mozilla means no addressbook, no xmlsec (because of nss), no LDAP
[11:09] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, xulrunner is basically unsupportable now :(
[11:10] <chrisccoulson> also, xulrunner doesn't support LDAP (you need to use the thunderbird SDK for that). are you sure openoffice doesn't switch to another ldap provider for that?
[11:13] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: OOo used their own old flaky mozilla precompiles from http://tools.openoffice.org/moz_prebuild/680/
[11:14]  * Sweetshark is gonna ask on #libreoffice
[11:14] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[11:14] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, basically, this is the problem for us: http://mozilla.github.com/process-releases/draft/development_overview/
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> if we keep it in main, we're committed to either maintaing old branches with security fixes, or rolling out new major versions across all stable releases every few weeks (and fixing all of the associated breakage)
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> and i don't want to end up spending all of my time doing that ;)
[11:15] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: come one!
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> lol
[11:15]  * didrocks hugs chrisccoulson :-)
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> i care about firefox, i don't care about xulrunner ;)
[11:15]  * chrisccoulson hugs didrocks
[11:18] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: well ...
[11:20] <seb128> rodrigo_, could you check on bug #754152
[11:21] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I guess it's a duplicate, but checking...
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> i always get frightened when i see people talking about couchdb bugs
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> i think that they're going to blame me for breaking it again ;)
[11:22] <Sweetshark> loosing xmlsec in LO is not an option IMHO, loosing the Thunderbird integration maybe. For LDAP Id need to check if that still needs xulrunner.
[11:23] <chrisccoulson> i'm pretty sure the ldap stuff doesn't require xulrunner, as xulrunner has no LDAP library in it at all
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> all the LDAP stuff is in thunderbird, and i don't think openoffice is depending on that is it?
[11:25] <Sweetshark> that would mean to split up the dependency on nss and the one thunderbird/xulrunner etc. -- but I suspect that to be nontrivial otherwise it should have been long done.
[11:26] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/libs-core/connectivity/source/drivers/mozab/makefile.mk#61
[11:27] <Sweetshark> dunno about that libs, do you?
[11:27] <Sweetshark> ah, wait ...
[11:28] <Sweetshark> we are building with SYSTEM_MOZILLA, I guess which disables the mozilla addressbook anyway, because that only work against those old rotten prebuild mozilla binaries.
[11:29] <Sweetshark> so it might be that we really actually only use nss (because the other stuff is broken anyway).
[11:29] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i hope we really only use nss :)
[11:30] <Sweetshark> in that case it might be just a bit of configure.in tweakage.
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> there are certainly no binary depends between openoffice and xulrunner to keep xulrunner installed on the system
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> so, if it really is using it, we'd need to fix that anyway
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> and xulrunner is also not on the CD now either
[11:31] <Sweetshark> no guarantees though, LO/OOo is a treacherous beast.
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> i'd be happy to help, although it might take me a week to find where i need to look ;)
[11:40] <Sweetshark> hm, theres is another one and that is the odf-viewer plugin in firefox itself.
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, is that a cross-browser (NPAPI) plugin?
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> or is it using mozilla code too?
[11:42] <chrisccoulson> we already have a solution for NPAPI plugins :)
[11:43] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/components/extensions/source/plugin/unx/ uhm, you tell me?
[11:43] <kamstrup> mvo: is it possible to launch S-C and have it display a specific category like "Games"?
[11:44] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, it's not including any mozilla headers there, so it looks like a pure NPAPI plugin
[11:45] <chrisccoulson> in which case, you can build-depend on firefox-dev for that (or, you might not even need that if openoffice already has a copy of the npapi headers)
[11:47] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: we'll need firefox-dev I guess. nss is also already in the source, but I still have to grok how/if it is used in our current build: http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/libs-extern-sys/nss/readme.txt
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[11:50] <Sweetshark> so if we a) link against nss only from xmlsec b) use firefox-dev for the plugin c) not use the adressbook. it should work out.
[11:51] <chrisccoulson> sounds good :)
[11:55] <Sweetshark> _rene_ just said on #libreoffice-dev: "12:46 <@_rene_> xulrunner *is* the system-mozilla :) (and it has the mentioned headers)"
[11:56] <mvo> kamstrup: not currently
[11:56] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: do we differ from debian there wrt to packaging (of the needed headers)?
[11:56] <kamstrup> mvo: ok
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, no. there's no LDAP headers anywhere in the mozilla codebase
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> only in thunderbird
[11:58] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, these are the idl files which are used to generate the LDAP headers: http://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/file/c3227fb51b3f/ldap/xpcom/public
[11:59] <Sweetshark> yeah, ldap/adressbook is disabled anyway with SYSTEM_MOZILLA. I wonder about the NPAPI headers being in xulrunner/firefox-dev.
[12:01] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: You could also come over to libreoffice-dev and we could discuss directly with _rene_ there ;)
[12:03] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, is that on freenode?
[12:03] <chrisccoulson> xchat just crashed when i tried to join ;)
[12:03] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: yes, I saw you join and crash.
[12:03] <chrisccoulson> 1 second, trying again ;)
[12:10] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: whats the timeline on this?
[12:11] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, that's probably a pitti question. pitti - when are we really frozen for release?
[12:11] <Sweetshark> ok, so the target is natty.
[12:41] <TheMuso> pitti: Seems that even if I remove expplicit inclusion of gcc and make in the desktop seed for powerpc, the still get pulled in via aptdaemon, recommending lintian, recommending build-essential and dpkg-dev.
[12:49] <fta2> didrocks, bug 754098  (seems it's a dupe now)
[12:50] <didrocks> ok, seems nuxish
[13:00] <dpm> hey didrocks, do you know if there is any alternative shortcut in unity for what used to be Super+t (show all apps in a workspace) and Super+a(show all apps in all workspaces)
[13:01] <didrocks> dpm: super + W
[13:01] <didrocks> for show all apps in all ws
[13:01] <didrocks> I resetted show all apps in a ws to default IIRC
[13:01] <didrocks> (it's ctrl + alt + whatever… should be in ccsm)
[13:04] <dpm> didrocks, oh, awesome, thanks. "I resetted show all apps in a ws to default IIRC" -> I'm not sure I understand this bit. Do you mean that in a next unity update super + w will show apps in a ws instead in all ws's?
[13:05] <didrocks> dpm: no, super + w wasn't the upstream defaults
[13:06] <dpm> didrocks, oh, I see. Cool, so I can use super+w. If I want to have a shortcut to show all windows in a ws do I have to install ccsm and configure the shortcut?
[13:07] <didrocks> dpm: exactly ;)
[13:07] <dpm> didrocks, ok, thanks!
[13:07] <didrocks> it's like good old days ;)
[13:07] <didrocks> dpm: yw
[13:09] <dpm> didrocks, ah, and another question: I used to be able to shift+click on a launcher to open a new window. Now that functionality is gone, but I still can use the super+shift+number functionality to do the same. So is the shift+click function gone by design, or shall I report a bug?
[13:09] <didrocks> oh really?
[13:09]  * didrocks checks
[13:10] <dpm> it's been gone for a while
[13:10] <didrocks> it has regressed, yeah
[13:10] <didrocks> dpm: open a bug, assigned me
[13:10] <dpm> didrocks, yessir!
[13:14] <dpm> didrocks, bug 754565, but I lack the permissions to assign it to you
[13:15] <htorque> smspillaz: hi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/591220/ - that's the only nouveau-related error that changed (almost doubled) when causing the bug a couple of times (compared to a valgrind that just started compiz)
[13:15] <htorque> smspillaz: does this look like it makes sense?
[13:16] <didrocks> dpm: btw, you want to change the "scale" plugin in ccsm
[13:18] <dpm> didrocks, ok thanks for the pointer. I don't have ccsm installed, though, so I'll see if I can manage to remember the Shift+Alt+Up shortcut, which seems to do the same :)
[13:18] <didrocks> ;)
[13:22] <JanC> dpm: middle click also opens a new window (in case you need it)
[13:22] <JanC> and can use it
[13:23] <didrocks> JanC: do you have a real mouse?
[13:24] <dpm> JanC, yeah, I knew that one, thanks. It's just that when I'm on the laptop I don't usually do middle click
[13:24] <JanC> yes, I know it might be difficult with a trackpad  ☺
[13:24] <dpm> the two buttons at the same time do the trick, but it's a bit difficult and it defeats the purpose
[13:25] <didrocks> yeah, xorg middle emulation issue
[13:25] <didrocks> bryceh_: tseliot: we spoke about that one, why finally this was changed? ^^
[13:26] <JanC> I always carry a mouse in my backpack  ;)
[13:27] <tseliot> tjaalton: ^^
[13:31] <tjaalton> nothing was changed, natty has been without middle mouse emulation since evdev 2.6 hit the archive late january
[13:31] <tjaalton> there is a quirk for the ubuntu mouse
[13:32] <tjaalton> so if you have usb mice that need one just open a new bug
[13:58] <smspillaz> desrt: ping
[13:59] <smspillaz> desrt: seems that gdbusconnection.c:1934 quits the compiz main loop
[14:00] <smspillaz> g_main_loop_quit (data->loop);
[14:00] <smspillaz> tracing what it might be
[14:04] <smspillaz> oh, ok, hang on a minute, that's not right
[14:05] <smspillaz> there's no main loop created at that point in compiz
[14:08] <fta2> didrocks, do you want a bug for the bamfdaemon assert()?
[14:08] <seb128> smspillaz, what bug is that?
[14:08] <fta2> or should i just ignore?
[14:08] <seb128> fta2: yes
[14:08] <seb128> fta2: we want bugs about any crash issue
[14:08] <smspillaz> seb128: something different, nevermind that
[14:08] <fta2> ok
[14:09] <smspillaz> seb128: seems like we are quitting ourselves, no idea why yet
[14:09] <smspillaz> I think there is some stale restart signal we get
[14:14] <fta2> seb128, seems my crash would be a dupe of bug 754225
[14:14] <seb128> you are uptodate?
[14:15] <fta2> i was when it happened (yesterday, late)
[14:15] <fta2> happened after a reboot
[14:15] <fta2> the main bug is 11h old, so it matches
[14:17] <davidcalle> Is there any plan for featured applications in USC 11.04?
[14:19] <seb128> fta2: no it's not, it's from wednesday and it was supposed to be fixed in the update yesterday
[14:19] <seb128> fta2: did you restart your session after today updates?
[14:19] <seb128> DBO: ^
[14:20] <davidcalle> jcastro, IIRC you raised this topic during maverick beta on the ml. What's the plan for Natty?
[14:20] <didrocks> pitti: do you have a minute to look at this FFe: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/754583
[14:20] <DBO> seb128, yeah they would have to restard their session
[14:22] <dobey> didrocks: thanks for the sponsoring :)
[14:22] <didrocks> dobey: yw ;)
[14:23] <smspillaz> vuntz: poke
[14:24] <smspillaz> vuntz: is it possible for gnome-session to send us SIGINT or SIGTERM if we are a required component ?
[14:33] <seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=604809
[14:33] <seb128> rodrigo_, that's the bug corresponding to the patch for which you say is breaking vino for you
[14:40] <pitti> re
[14:40] <didrocks> hey pitti
[14:41] <pitti> Sweetshark: odd, does macro security involve HTML or javascript in any way?
[14:41] <seb128> pitti, wb
[14:41] <pitti> chrisccoulson, Sweetshark: freeze for release? well, any structural changes should be uploaded around or after beta-2, as otherwise it'll get really tight
[14:41] <seb128> pitti, I've assigned some bugs to you while reviewing python crash duplicates from the day
[14:42] <pitti> TheMuso: eww, we pull in lintian by default now? that sounds quite heavy
[14:42] <seb128> pitti, feel free to ignore those, they are things worth checking but probably not blockers
[14:42] <pitti> didrocks: will look at the FFE
[14:42] <pitti> seb128: ah, thanks; will check them out
[14:46] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, cool, just found the debian one
[14:49] <rodrigo_> seb128, so, I was wondering if we could remove the patch, but I guess not, right?
[14:49] <seb128> rodrigo_, well it works for other people and vino is not just simply broken for everybody or we would have noticed
[14:50] <seb128> so I would like to figure why it breaks for you
[14:50] <seb128> if you are in contact with upstream can you get them to review that patch?
[14:50] <rodrigo_> seb128, not sure yet, still debugging
[14:50] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, sure
[14:50] <seb128> thanks
[14:53] <TheMuso> pitti: Yes, even on x86
[14:54]  * TheMuso heads to be.
[14:54] <TheMuso> bed
[14:54] <pitti> seb128: ah, nice picks; they should be easy to fix
[14:56] <seb128> pitti, ;-)
[14:56] <seb128> jibel: hi
[14:56] <seb128> jibel: did you restart your session today? are you uptodate?
[14:57] <seb128> jibel: the libreoffice-writer issue could be fixed with today updates, would be nice to make sure if you are uptodate to confirm it
[14:59] <jibel> seb128, yes I did.
[15:00] <seb128> jibel: so you are uptodate from today with session restarted and still get the bug?
[15:02] <didrocks> seb128: we didn't change the gio directory, did we?
[15:02] <didrocks> (if this is what you are reffering to)
[15:02] <jibel> seb128, yes, I am as of 6:57 ago.
[15:02] <seb128> didrocks, slangasek did
[15:02] <seb128> jibelt: what bamfdaemon version do you have?
[15:03] <didrocks> seb128: oh, scrolling in -changes didn't spot it, you're right
[15:03] <jibel> seb128,   Installed: 0.2.84-0ubuntu2
[15:03] <seb128> didrocks, he did the change I suggested you yesterday
[15:03] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, nice, thanks :)
[15:03] <seb128> jibel: grumpf, DBO ^
[15:03] <seb128> DBO, libreoffice matching is still screwed it seems, we need that sorted for natty
[15:04] <DBO> seb128, understood, did someone fix the module?
[15:04] <seb128> the gio use is fixed for me, it matches back the correct desktop
[15:04] <seb128> DBO: slangasek moved it back to the non multiarch location and I can confirm that fix the .desktop matching case in nautilus
[15:04] <seb128> so I think libreoffice is another issue
[15:05] <seb128> DBO: it matches the writer to javafilter
[15:05] <seb128> DBO: but they have the same commands in their .desktop so it might be a special case
[15:05] <seb128> DBO: bug #738931
[15:06] <DBO> seb128, wtf, really?
[15:06] <seb128> jibel: I can't confirm the bug there though, can you try in a guest session? how do you start it?
[15:06] <ricotz> DBO, hi, is the name_changed signal use for libreoffice?
[15:06] <DBO> indeed
[15:08] <ricotz> ok, havent looked the a code, i just can confirm problems with libreoffice too, but we dont connect to the name_change signal though
[15:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
[15:19] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[15:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, so what happened to that default email client email? ;-)
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> it's getting there ;)
[15:20] <seb128> ;-)
[15:20] <seb128> ogra_, you you became civilized, that's nice ;-)
[15:21] <jibel> seb128, I can reproduce the problem on 2 other systems. you need to install libreoffice-filter-mobiledev and restart the session
[15:21] <jibel> I start lowriter from the command line btw
[15:21] <seb128> jibel: oh, I don't have that binary installed, that would explain it, thanks
[15:21] <seb128> jibel: does it happen if you start if from unity places?
[15:22] <seb128> ogra_, joking but nice to see that you described the bugs fixed this time rather than just list a list of lp: #number
[15:22] <jibel> seb128, yes it does.
[15:22] <seb128> ok
[15:22] <seb128> jibel: thanks
[15:23] <ogra_> seb128, hehe, last time would simply have been to much
[15:24] <Sweetshark> pitti: no, but it involves certificates needed for xmlsec
[15:24] <seb128> ogra_, talk to didrocks, the unity changed are built by a script using the milestoned bugs set in fix commited ;-)
[15:24] <seb128> ogra_, well maybe not today but at UDS pay him a beer ;-)
[15:25] <didrocks> seb128: one beer by bug handled you meant, isn't it? :-)
[15:25] <Sweetshark> pitti: but that is nss only. the other uses are either disabled of should do with firefox-dev instead of xulrunner-dev. So I will just do a "xulrunner-dev|firefox-dev" builddep and everything should be shiny.
[15:26] <seb128> didrocks, hum, are you sure you will manage to walk back to the room? ;-)
[15:26] <seb128> mterry, i've accepted your control-center email from moderation, just fyi in case if you pondered if you need to repost it or subscribe
[15:26] <didrocks> seb128: I can share with my roomate then :-)
[15:27] <seb128> hehe
[15:27] <mterry> seb128, thanks
[15:27] <pitti> seb128: ah, | firefox-dev sounds fine, or even just libnss3-dev ?
[15:27] <pitti> sorry, Sweetshark ^
[15:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: nice, so it actually looks we'll getting rid of both \o/
[15:28] <pitti> Sweetshark: firefox-dev should be a drop-in compatible now
[15:28] <chrisccoulson> oh, that's excellent :)
[15:29] <pitti> chrisccoulson: building gluezilla against firefox-dev is not possible?
[15:29] <pitti> or will it just keep breaking with ffox updates?
[15:29] <chrisccoulson> pitti - no, as it's still a new gecko version and it doesn't really solve the problem that dropping xulrunner from main solves
[15:30] <pitti> ack
[15:30] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it will likely break with upgrades
[15:30] <pitti> I thought so, but wanted to check
[15:30] <chrisccoulson> i want to limit what we build against firefox-dev. browser plugins are ok, and we also have 1 extension too
[15:30] <chrisccoulson> but we shouldn't have any more than that :)
[15:44] <rodrigo_> is anyone seeing e-addressbook/calendar-factory crashes often?
[15:50] <seb128> rodrigo_, never crashed for me
[15:50] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, neither for me
[15:50] <seb128> but I don't use ubuntuone for contacts
[15:51] <seb128> hum, evo suckage again
[15:51] <seb128> it just displayed me a meeting remind for the weekly rt meeting at "11:00"
[15:51] <rodrigo_> seb128, but there are a lot of bugs in lp about threading crashes, so I need someone that sees the crashes often to run it under valgrind
[15:51] <rodrigo_> seb128, it happens on google and local contacts also, it seems to be some bad usage of mutexes
[15:52] <rodrigo_> I'm running it under valgrind now, let's hope I can find something, even if it doesn't crash
[15:52] <seb128> seems it display the time from some other tz, the meeting is in 10 minutes and that's not 11:00
[15:52] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok
[15:53] <seb128> rodrigo_, well what I got from previous cycles and that some of those issues where due to gconf which is not safe to such use
[15:53] <rodrigo_> seb128, what timezone is the meeting on?
[15:53] <seb128> rodrigo_, dunno, I just got the reminder so it's in 10 minutes which is 17:00
[15:53] <seb128> it should display 17:00
[15:53] <rodrigo_> yes
[15:53] <seb128> I guess it's 11:00 in the timezone from whoever set the appointement
[15:55] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, but evolution should convert to your timezone, so it's a bug, unless you don't have a timezone set?
[15:56] <seb128> rodrigo_, the preference has "use the system timezone france,paris" checked
[15:56] <seb128> the calendar is a gcalendar one
[15:56] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok then a bug, it seems
[15:57] <seb128> the details of the meeting say it's a 10:00 chicago time
[15:57] <rodrigo_> that's not 11:00 paris time :-)
[15:57] <seb128> it's not ;-)
[15:57] <seb128> not sure where it got the 11:00 from
[15:57] <rodrigo_> unless you moved the country westwards :-)
[15:57] <rodrigo_> yeah
[15:57] <seb128> it's neither the chicago not the paris time
[15:57] <seb128> could be a dst bug added to the other issue
[15:58] <rodrigo_> hmm, maybe
[15:59] <seb128> ok, let's see
[15:59] <seb128> I just added a new meeting at 10:10 chicago time in that calendar
[16:00] <seb128> right
[16:00] <seb128> same bug
[16:02] <Sweetshark> How fast would I get stoned for suggesting to depend the LO build on a full JDK instead of gjc?
[16:03] <seb128> rodrigo_, do you want to peak at it and see if you can fix it?
[16:03] <seb128> pitti, btw there is no gnome-appearance-capplet in GNOME3 that code is going away when next cycle open
[16:04] <pitti> seb128: ah, thanks; makes it even harder to patch :)
[16:05] <seb128> right, it would mean writting code to drop it in 2 weeks
[16:09] <chrisccoulson> seb128, done ;)
[16:11] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, sure, assign the bug to me, although I'm now looking at the e-d-s crashes, but I'll have a look as soon as I'm done with that
[16:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[16:14] <seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
[16:14] <seb128> rodrigo_, did you see my comment about gconf earlier?
[16:14] <seb128> rodrigo_, I think the #evolution guys mentioned something about gconf not being safe for use out of the main context
[16:14] <seb128> but that was previous cycle
[16:14] <seb128> it's the same issue that the keyring and gvfs
[16:15] <seb128> or "similar" issue
[16:20] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, saw it
[16:20] <rodrigo_> seb128, the fix I did in evo-couchdb was for keyring to not crash the threads
[16:20] <rodrigo_> seb128, but all these crashes are just in lots of places, not gconf or keyring or gvfs
[16:20] <seb128> well if the lib it's not safe to use in that context it's weird that an init workaround the issue
[16:20] <seb128> ok
[16:21] <rodrigo_> so yeah, something's wrong
[16:21] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, that _init call prepares dbus to deal with threads
[16:21] <rodrigo_> not sure why it doesn't do it by default though
[16:21] <seb128> oh ok
[16:21] <rodrigo_> now 2.32 uses glib's dbus API, so it might have the same issue than dbus-glib had
[16:22] <seb128> oh mcrha just commited a bunch of fixes to gnome-2-32
[16:22] <rodrigo_> oh, /me looks
[16:22] <seb128> do they plan a 2.32 tarball?
[16:24] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, those are the fixes from David's github branch
[16:24] <rodrigo_> seb128, there's been a discussion about keeping the 2.32 brnahc open for distributions
[16:25] <seb128> that would be nice
[16:25] <rodrigo_> so yeah, with all those fixes, I guess a new 2.32.x tarball is coming
[16:25] <seb128> though it's getting late for natty now, freeze is on monday next week
[16:26] <rodrigo_> and the fixes that he just pushed are not that "important", from a 1st look
[16:26] <seb128> didrocks, jibel got a case of non hidden launcher not using qt for you ;-)
[16:26] <seb128> rodrigo_, right
[16:26] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I'm discussing with him, I don't reproduce
[16:26] <didrocks> so I have to ask him to give all small dirity secret of Launcher state :)
[16:26] <seb128> ;-)
[16:30] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I think the key point in that default email client is whether online calendar matters or not
[16:31] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, true. i thought i might miss something out ;)
[16:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, in a world where google give one for free and any smart phone allow you to use it very easily it seems an important usecase even out of office
[16:32] <seb128> like kenvandine said he knows people who just use online calendar for day to day things
[16:32] <kenvandine> my wife and all of her friends live off their google calendars
[16:33] <kenvandine> all moms with kids to run around
[16:33] <kenvandine> busy schedules :)
[16:34] <sabdfl> pitti: hi, re the interface changes, we have a tough debate between "long term frustration" and "short term frustration"
[16:35] <sabdfl> most people start looking for the launcher on the left edge
[16:35] <sabdfl> it's frustrating to them that they have to get it from the corner, especially since we don't cue that well
[16:35] <sabdfl> we have a visualisation, it was not done in time, but will be for oneiric
[16:36] <pitti> because that corner is only actually 1x1 pixels big? :-)
[16:36] <sabdfl> on the other hand
[16:36] <sabdfl> no, the corner should be 5x5 iirc
[16:36] <sabdfl> on the other hand
[16:36] <sabdfl> the edge results in lots of false positives
[16:36] <sabdfl> so people end up having the launcher show up when they don't really want it
[16:36] <sabdfl> which, in the long term, is more frustrating
[16:37] <sabdfl> and in the long term (days) the muscle memory of corner activation is just as good
[16:37] <pitti> full ack; I don't think it should ever be on the edge
[16:37] <sabdfl> so, corner activation is better long term
[16:37] <pitti> it'll interact badly with working with window edges for resizing, or for tiling them, etc.
[16:37] <sabdfl> pitti: i agree, but it's the most visible wtf? in unity atm
[16:37] <pitti> and there's always the windows key
[16:37] <sabdfl> exactly
[16:37] <sabdfl> also exactly :-)
[16:37] <sabdfl> so, if we give people an easier day 1, they spend a lot more time frustrated
[16:38] <sabdfl> if we don't, they blog about it on day 1 :-)
[16:38] <pitti> TBH, I still think the most visible WTF is "why do I only see half of it when I point to the ubuntu logo", but that's a battle I won't win, I guess :
[16:38] <sabdfl> that's another false positive story
[16:38] <sabdfl> i think we'll settle on a combination of corner + hover-on-bfb
[16:38] <sabdfl> i.e. rapid move through corner will do it immediately
[16:38] <sabdfl> or you can explore and if you get as far as the bfb, it starts coming out
[16:39] <pitti> so how do we make it discoverable that you can change the behaviour in a four-levels down appearance applet (which never had panel properties before, and isn't supposed to either)?
[16:39] <sabdfl> the idea is to give them the day 1 behaviour they expect, then let them take the rough edge off later
[16:40] <sabdfl> but it's not a totally solid idea, this is not properly tested, and imo it's ok to ship what we have
[16:40] <sabdfl> we're busy wrapping up the formal user testing, i'll have a better sense of whether this is a showstopper when Charline's written that up
[16:41] <sabdfl> next week :/
[16:41] <pitti> sabdfl: well, beta-2 archive freeze is Monday 0900, we won't get in the gnome-appearance-applets change written, tested, and uploadd anyway by then
[16:42] <sabdfl> ok, let's pass for natty
[16:42] <sabdfl> in a pinch, SRU
[16:42] <pitti> so a few days back and forth would not matter much, and tarnslations for this will be broken anyway
[16:43] <pitti> sabdfl: and at start of oneiric gnome-appearance-properties will be history, too
[16:43] <pitti> we don't have the equivalent of a pointing bubble any more, do we?
[16:43] <pitti> such as ^--- move mouse here or press Windows key to open Launcher
[16:43] <seb128> sabdfl, we can't sru new UI since that means they will land non translated
[16:44] <sabdfl> seb128: ok
[16:44] <pitti> seb128: they'll not get translations in time either way
[16:44] <njpatel> I will buy many beers, can we push freeze time to 11:00 UTC or something?
[16:44] <njpatel> on Monday
[16:44] <pitti> njpatel: perhaps join #ubuntu-meeting, it'll be the desktop turn soon
[16:44] <seb128> njpatel, pitti said he would raise it during the meeting for unity upload target
[16:44] <pitti> (i have it in my blurb, too)
[16:44] <pitti> I think it really ought to be possible
[16:44] <njpatel> pitti, ah, thanks
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> njpatel, are you trying to bribe pitti? ;)
[16:44] <njpatel> okay, fingers-crossed
[16:44] <pitti> now
[16:44] <njpatel> chrisccoulson, always
[16:45] <njpatel> Anyone on the release team, there are always beers available for favours that move the freeze time to later. It's just how DX rolls :)
[16:45] <sabdfl> njpatel: we are flying blind here. we're guessing that the edge thing won't cause more problems, and we're guessing people will find the alternative
[16:45] <seb128> pitti, what about cairo and gl? should you mention it during the meeting?
[16:46] <pitti> ah, right
[16:46] <pitti> seb128: do you think we could upload the non-EGL version today still?
[16:46] <njpatel> sabdfl, sure, in my mind that has dropped. I'm asking for time so we have a chance of releasing monday morning/sunday evening
[16:46] <njpatel> (for normal stuff)
[16:47] <seb128> pitti, yes, it will just break wayland so I was waiting for a decision to be taken
[16:47] <sabdfl> what has dropped?
[16:48] <njpatel> sabdfl, the two requests from this morning, launcher & menu
[16:48] <seb128> sabdfl, speaking about discovrability I see users arguing over the menus one over the launcher one
[16:48] <didrocks> pitti: I should maybe join #ubuntu-meeting then has I'm impacted by the unity release :)
[16:48] <pitti> hang on, I almost got it :)
[16:48] <njpatel> sabdfl, I'm currently negotiating the standard "can we please have more time?" DX<->Release Team thing
[16:48] <sabdfl> okdokey :-)
[16:50] <pitti> njpatel, didrocks, seb128: ok, unity got a free pass until 1300 UTC
[16:50] <njpatel> WOOHOO!
[16:50] <njpatel> thanks!
[16:50] <njpatel> this is going to be an interesting weekend
[16:50] <pitti> all just coordination, don't worry
[16:51] <didrocks> thanks pitti :)
[16:52] <pitti> seb128: mentioned it in release meeting; I think we need to go ahead; do you know what needs to happen with the package?
[16:53] <pitti> seb128: it seems https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/wayland/ even has the cairo still, but I guess it needs to be updated to be newer than the natty version
[16:53] <seb128> pitti, I can upload that now
[16:53] <pitti> seb128: please do; I'll take the bullets
[16:53] <seb128> pitti, should I break on wayland from the updated version?
[16:53] <pitti> better than on Monday
[16:53] <pitti> seb128: I think that makes sense
[16:53] <seb128> ok, doing that
[16:53] <pitti> cheers
[16:54] <pitti> bryceh_: ^ really sorry about this, but I'm afraid we're running out of options here :/
[16:54] <pitti> (and time)
[16:54] <vuntz> smspillaz: why/when would you need sigint/sigterm?
[16:54] <pitti> bryceh_: want us to provide an updated cairo upload for the PPA? (basically current natty with a newer version number)
[16:55] <smspillaz> vuntz: ah, I was wondering because it looked like we were getting that signal and I was wondering if gnome-session was doing it
[16:55] <smspillaz> but we aren't
[16:55] <smspillaz> I figured out what the problem was
[16:55] <smspillaz> thanks for the response though :)
[16:55]  * pitti hugs njpatel
[16:56]  * njpatel hugs pitti, gets ready money for beer
[16:56] <pitti> the man who fixes bugs faster than we can even apport them
[16:56] <didrocks> vuntz: already back home?
[16:56] <njpatel> pitti, heh :)
[16:56] <pitti> njpatel: nah, you already paid in bug fixes!
[16:56] <njpatel> Ah, bug fixes as a currency, I like
[16:57] <vuntz> didrocks: yes, just now
[17:25] <jbicha> I have a collection of gnome3 ppa bugs, would it be better to send them in 1 email or all separately?
[17:32] <seb128> jbicha, where do you want to send those?
[17:32] <seb128> one email seems better
[17:33] <jbicha> to the gnome3-team mailing list
[17:35] <seb128> jbicha, ok, one email will do then
[17:35] <jbicha> cool, email sent
[18:02] <pitti> TTFN, have a nice weekend everyone!
[18:04] <njpatel> didrocks, seb128, pitti, because I hate myself: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/754583
[18:04] <njpatel> what about a small capplet for gnome-control-centre?
[18:04] <seb128> pitti, enjoy!
[18:05] <njpatel> Seven new strings only, one time offer!!!!!!!one
[18:05] <seb128> njpatel, what about stopping wasting time adding a fix me option and pick a behaviour and focus on fixing bugs?
[18:05] <njpatel> seb128, Don't shoot the messenger dude :)
[18:05] <seb128> njpatel, well tell whoever is pushing on it to come argue directly ;-)
[18:06] <njpatel> Aww, but they are counting on you all loving me
[18:06] <njpatel> :)
[18:06] <seb128> ;-)
[18:15] <ricotz> seb128, hi
[18:16] <ricotz> are you ok with https://edge.launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing/+sourcepub/1636891/+listing-archive-extra ?
[18:20] <seb128> re
[18:20] <seb128> ricotz, why do we need the new gdm?
[18:20] <seb128> doesn't seem right to push the update if it's not ready, like half of the patch commented
[18:20] <ricotz> to actually have a gnome3 themed one ;)
[18:21] <ricotz> the gdmsetup patch depends on gtk2 and other patches rely on it
[18:21] <seb128> why can't you port it to gtk3?
[18:22] <ricotz> actually i dont have the time to look into that big one
[18:24] <ricotz> but this gdm will finally give a better user-experience while it is not broken-gtk2-themed
[18:24] <ricotz> but  of course there is no rush
[18:28] <seb128> ricotz, hum ok, well upload if you want but the ppa quality is lower with updates it seems but since we don't recommend users to run it...
[18:29] <seb128> like dropping the patch to respect the system uids to display or the locale and keyboard handling fixes
[18:31] <ricotz> seb128, i will keep it in my ppa for now
[18:31] <seb128> ok
[18:31] <seb128> maybe commit to the gnome3 vcs as work in progress
[18:31] <ricotz> but it is actually kind of crazy to have 31 patches :(
[18:31] <seb128> send an email to the list to invite others to continue the patches update
[18:32] <seb128> well, that's not specific to Ubuntu
[18:32] <seb128> Debian and OpenSuse have a stack of patches for gdm as well
[18:32] <seb128> that's a known issue
[18:32] <ricotz> hmm, i see
[18:42] <fta> didrocks, please keep bug 728428 open, it's definitely not fixed
[18:43] <didrocks> smspillaz: ^^
[18:43] <didrocks> fta: you can reopen it
[18:44] <smspillaz> didrocks: I haven't got time to fix this one
[18:45] <didrocks> it was listed as the fix on plugin-main though
[18:45] <didrocks> probably by error then
[18:46] <fta> which task should i re-open? all?
[18:46] <fta> doh, compiz crashed
[18:46] <fta> "not enough memory to report it", wfh? I have 4GB
[18:46] <didrocks> fta: no, it's ok, plugins-main is opened
[18:48] <fta> when compiz restarts after a crash; my workspaces are also re-arranged, but it's not a rotation
[18:50] <bryceh_> seb128, instead of dumping bugs like 753910 to X that haven't really any useful data, instead tell them to file a *new* bug about the specific issue against xorg.  These rambling multi-problem bug reports are of no use to us like this.
[18:55] <ryanpg> anyone know if the gnome3 team PPA has a roadmap? I'd like to try out gnome3 on 11.04, obviously it's very experimental, I'd like to know when it becomes installable if possible.
[19:03] <JanC> fta: the bug you describe when scrolling through workspaces existed in compiz before natty too
[19:04] <nessita> hello everyone, is there any available for a sponsorship? https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntuone-control-panel/ubuntuone-control-panel-0.9.5/+merge/56995
[19:08] <fta> JanC, maybe, but i don't know, i was using metacity before
[19:09] <JanC> fta: I added a comment to the bug report, just in case it's useful for the compiz developers  ☺
[19:10] <JanC> it also means this is not a unity bug but a compiz bug
[19:10] <fta> thanks :)
[19:18] <jbicha> ryanpg: the gnome3 PPA is mostly installable now but not recommended if you like your system to be free of breakage
[19:19] <jbicha> ryanpg: for instance, I would hold back from upgrading gnome-session
[19:19] <ryanpg> I did try to install from it... and gnome session was one of the troublesome packages
[19:20] <ryanpg> gnome3-session was un-installable along with gtk3-engines and others
[19:20] <jbicha> gnome3-session is obsolete
[19:20] <ryanpg> jbicha, ahh... cool
[19:21] <jbicha> but don't upgrade gnome-session or you'll probably have trouble logging into Unity
[19:21] <ryanpg> jbicha, do you know if the plan is to have a stable and installable PPA eventually? or is it always intended to be experimental?
[19:22] <jbicha> I can't speak for the Desktop Team but I believe the plan is for the Gnome 3 PPA to be stable by 11.04 release
[19:22] <jbicha> obviously there will be lots of integration issues which is why Gnome 3 isn't part of 11.04
[19:23] <ryanpg> yes, I guess there still is three weeks till release
[19:25] <ryanpg> jbicha, do you know of a way to install a minimal gnome3 from the ppa, while holding back troublesome packages? I mean, other than manually selecting package versions and choosing which packages are upgraded...
[19:25] <ryanpg> adding the ppa and doing a dist-upgrade is sure to result in disaster
[19:29] <jbicha> I wouldn't say disaster as you could always use ppa-purge to get things back to normal
[19:31] <jbicha> gnome-shell is the major package you're looking for but except for gnome-session I have everything else there upgraded all the way
[19:33] <jbicha> well, and gnome-accessibility-themes is broken too but that's not too important
[19:45] <ryanpg> jbicha, have you tried out any of the gnome 3 live images? If so how do they compare to the PPA "experience?"
[19:48] <jbicha> ryanpg: no I haven't got around to trying pure gnome3 yet, it's difficult to compare Ubuntu Gnome 3 with pure Gnome as Ubuntu has different design & integration goals
[19:54] <ryanpg> jbicha, sure... those differences are a part of the comparison I'd like to make, so far I've not been able to get to see any part of gnome3 on my 11.04 install
[19:55] <ryanpg> I'm going to guess that working subpixel hinting is going to be one of those "design and integration goals" :D
[19:56] <ryanpg> MacSlow, hi there... I remember you from waaaaay back in the early days of hanging around the  clearlooks channels! :D
[19:56] <ryanpg> MacSlow, I always expect to see you show up on one of G4s parkour shows, or American Ninja. lol :)
[19:56] <MacSlow> ryanpg, oh... that is really "waaaaaaay back" :)
[19:57] <MacSlow> ryanpg, no I ended up at Canonical :)
[19:57] <ryanpg> MacSlow, hah! Well I've seen your name scroll across my screen a few times since then - you've really become a big player!
[19:58]  * ryanpg doesn't intend to embarrass 
[19:58]  * MacSlow tries not to be
[19:58] <MacSlow> :)
[20:00] <ryanpg> MacSlow, do you ever talk to Remenic? He seems to have disappeared.
[20:01] <MacSlow> ryanpg, no... never met  him in person
[20:02] <ryanpg> me either... just on #clearlooks, anyway...
[20:38] <seb128> bryceh_, hey, yeah sorry the issue is that I'm not sure what questions should be asked on xorg bugs or what infos are needed
[20:38] <seb128> nessita, ola
[20:39] <nessita> seb128: hola! ca va?
[20:39] <seb128> nessita, ca va bien, et toi ?
[20:40] <nessita> trés bien!
[20:40] <seb128> nessita, I'm about to call it a day (week if nothing come during the weekend that needs to land before monday freeze)
[20:40] <seb128> nessita, do you still need sponsoring?
[20:40] <seb128> nessita, I can do that before calling it a day
[20:41] <nessita> seb128: yes, I do, please!
[20:42] <nessita> seb128: so, you said something that has scared me: *monday freeze*? I was hoping the repos were freezed wed
[20:42] <seb128> nessita, no, monday at 9utc
[20:42] <seb128> nessita, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
[20:42] <nessita> seb128: OMG
[20:44] <nessita> seb128: final freeze is April 14th
[20:44] <nessita> seb128: why do you scare me? :-)
[20:44] <seb128> nessita, because I've been at the r-t meeting today and they argued over the unity upload on monday
[20:45] <seb128> nessita, monday to wednesday is for selected fixes for issues that are considered blockers for the images
[20:45] <seb128> nessita, you should count on it to land fixes you want if they disagree on those being blockers
[20:48] <nessita> seb128: so, sorry but I'm not understanding properly (is Friday and I've been sprinting all week :-)): we will have a chance to upload next week or we have 0 chance to upload?
[20:54] <nessita> pitti: maybe, you around?
[20:55] <seb128> nessita, he's not around
[20:55] <seb128> nessita, it's free uploads until monday 9utc
[20:55] <fta> tjaalton, yt?
[20:55] <seb128> nessita, it's upload that need to get reviewed and paid in beers after that
[20:56] <nessita> seb128: so, before hearing about the freeze ocurring at mon, I was counting with having more time to land bug #702176, which depending how you look at it may or may not require a UI FE. Can you tell me if that require a UI FE?
[20:56] <seb128> nessita, but they plan to roll the candidate images on tuesday so you need a strong reason to get things in an new images after that
[20:57] <nessita> seb128: I sadly understand
[20:57] <dobey> i wonder if we will even be able to get sponsorship for uploads
[20:57] <dobey> this late in the week
[20:57] <fta> tjaalton, i have a new problem with X. started a few days ago (2, maybe 3). when I put mplayer in fullscreen mode, X goes bersek, with evdev_drv.so in the stack. desktop is all stuck. then compiz goes 100% cpu too
[20:57] <seb128> nessita, that one is not likely to get in after monday, it's not even likely to get it on monday, it's late for ui changes
[20:57] <seb128> dobey, when?
[20:58] <seb128> dobey, I'm still around and can do a round of sponsoring now
[20:58] <seb128> kees is patch pilot today also and U.S based
[20:58] <nessita> seb128: I see. Well, thanks a lot the same :-)
[20:58] <seb128> nessita, ;-)
[20:58] <dobey> seb128: well i need to do a banshee upload. was hoping to do it on tuesday, but i guess i have to do it today
[20:59] <seb128> dobey, check is skaet but yeah better today if you can
[20:59] <seb128> nessita, what sponsoring did you need btw?
[21:00] <nessita> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntuone-control-panel/ubuntuone-control-panel-0.9.5/+merge/56995
[21:01] <seb128> nessita, you got it
[21:02] <nessita> seb128: thanks!
[21:02] <dobey> seb128: yeah, i'm pulling banshee branch right now and will push the upload
[21:02] <seb128> nessita, you're welcome
[21:02] <mterry> tedg, still here?  what exactly happens when a process uses both dbus-glib and gdbus?  Is it only bad if they use it for the same end point?
[21:02] <seb128> nessita, what source do you need to update for the uif issue?
[21:02] <seb128> mterry, what are you hacking on? ;-)
[21:03] <tedg> mterry, Yeah, you'll just have two connections to dbus.  So you can't send messages on one and expect to receive on the other really.
[21:03] <mterry> seb128, this quassel crash
[21:03] <seb128> oh
[21:03] <tedg> mterry, The problem that we had is that we'd pull the address of the message for many things, and we wouldn't get the right address.
[21:03] <mterry> tedg, crashes?
[21:03] <nessita> seb128: control panel as well, but I didn't add it to the release because I was waiting for the exception granting
[21:03] <tedg> mterry, Shouldn't in theory.  I haven't tested it though :-)
[21:04] <mterry> tedg, apps that use dbusmenu-glib and interact with the messaging app but use dbus-glib elsewhere wouldn't have problems, one assumes, right?
[21:05] <mterry> s/messaging app/messaging menu/
[21:06] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-weather/+bug/743541
[21:06] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-weather/+bug/742824
[21:06] <tedg> mterry, One assumes.  I don't know of anything that'd be an issue there.
[21:07] <seb128> those have just been added to libdbusmenu if someone want to check on whether they are bug there
[21:08] <mterry> tedg, is there any reason /usr/lib/indicator-application/indicator-application-service would be linking with dbus-glib?
[21:09] <mterry> oh, because it does....  I thought we cleaned all that out
[21:11] <tedg> mterry, Yes we didn't get all of it sadly.
[21:12] <dobey> hyperair: ping
[21:12] <hyperair> dobey: pong
[21:13] <tedg> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/ubuntu/natty/nautilus/lp750788/+merge/57005
[21:13] <dobey> hyperair: is banshee 2.0 going into 11.04 or are we sticking with 1.9.6?
[21:13] <bryceh_> seb128, as a general rule we always want the stuff that the xorg apport hook includes.
[21:13] <bryceh_> that answers like 80% of the questions.
[21:14] <seb128> tedg, does that mean those are broken installs? how come it doesn't find the ui description?
[21:14] <tedg> seb128, I think they must be.  But, we shouldn't crash...
[21:14] <seb128> bryceh_, ok, so basic rules is to invalid those asking to open a new bug rather than to reassign?
[21:14] <tedg> seb128, Only thing they'd loose is the help and changing the desktop background though.
[21:14] <seb128> bryceh_, i.e ubuntu-bug xorg-server?
[21:15] <seb128> tedg, ok, I don't care about those ;-)
[21:15] <tedg> seb128, So I'm not *too* worried about solving the install issue.  I think it might be an upgrade one as well?
[21:15] <bryceh_> seb128, right
[21:15] <seb128> bryceh_, xserver-xorg rather I meant, ok ;-)
[21:15] <seb128> bryceh_,I will do that from now on!
[21:15] <bryceh_> used to be unity's apport hook included the same stuff as xorg, but it doesn't any more, so easiest if people file new bugs
[21:16] <bryceh_> seb128, actually just 'ubuntu-bug xorg' is enough
[21:16] <seb128> ok
[21:16] <bryceh_> the scripts will automatically take care of shuffling the bug report to the right spot and so on
[21:17] <seb128> bryceh_, I guess they can just do "ubuntu-bug" and pick xorg and follow the questions?
[21:17] <bryceh_> seb128, that works too
[21:17] <bryceh_> (in fact that might even be better)
[21:18] <seb128> doh, the "don't know" exit you from apport, not very useful friendly ;-)
[21:22] <dobey> i guess we are not getting banshee 2.0 then
[21:22] <Laney> why not?
[21:32] <mterry> tedg, ooh, may have a good crash fix
[21:33] <tedg> mterry, Woot!
[21:33] <tedg> mterry, I think that kenvandine had started to think about his weekend, let's not let him do that!  ;-)
[21:33] <kenvandine> :)
[21:34] <dobey> Laney: i don't see any merges for it, and it's not in debian yet either
[21:34] <Laney> it was uploaded today
[21:34] <Laney> http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/banshee/news/20110408T144725Z.html
[21:35] <mterry> heh
[21:35] <bryceh_> seb128, the one exception I can think of to this is if the bug is about a crash of _unity_, where the backtrace indicates a fault in mesa or driver code; obviously we want the backtrace from the original bug, not a new bug in that case.
[21:36] <bryceh_> seb128, although having looked at a few such bugs so far, sometimes it's not really clear whether the issue is X, or unity/compiz passing in bad data that crashes X.
[21:36] <bryceh_> er, crashes unity I mean
[21:37] <mterry> tedg, kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/indicator-application/dont-wildly-free-apps/+merge/57012
[21:38] <seb128> bryceh_, right, for crashers with a debug stacktrace I would close those
[21:43] <tedg> mterry, Cool.  I have a bug on the fact that application needs to be made a real object... it's always going to have these problems until it does :-(
[21:44] <dobey> Laney: ah. i didn't see that when i searched
[21:44] <Laney> just merging it now
[21:45] <mterry> tedg, yar
[21:46] <tedg> seb128, Seems both of those dbusmenu ones need valgrind :-(
[21:46] <seb128> tedg, ok, that's fine, I was pointing them in case
[21:47] <seb128> kenvandine, you probably want to get the fix mterry just pointed in natty and maybe the one he mentioned earlier
[21:47] <tedg> Heh, I was just about to say that!
[21:48] <kenvandine> tedg, i was going to ask... distro patch?
[21:48] <tedg> kenvandine, Listen to seb128! ;-)
[21:48] <kenvandine> i always listen to seb128
[21:48] <kenvandine> :-D
[21:48] <tedg> kenvandine, Definitely for the indicator-application one.
[21:48] <tedg> kenvandine, The dbusmenu one is bigger, I can release it if you want.
[21:48] <kenvandine> tedg, i can distro patch
[21:49] <kenvandine> lp:~mterry/dbusmenu/sudo-make-me-an-activation-sandwich	
[21:49] <kenvandine> that one?
[21:49] <tedg> kenvandine, Then grab this one as well: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/dbusmenu/lp746091/+merge/56850
[21:49] <mterry> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/indicator-application/dont-wildly-free-apps/+merge/57012 too
[21:49] <tedg> mterry, Could you review to double check ^
[21:49] <mterry> k
[21:50] <kenvandine> tedg, you've got two branches for dbusmenu? maybe you should do a release then
[21:50] <kenvandine> and i'll distro patch indicator-application while you prepare that
[21:51] <tedg> kenvandine, K
[21:51] <dobey> kenvandine: can you sponsor a branch real quick for me? :)
[21:51] <kenvandine> everyone beats on me at eod?
[21:51] <kenvandine> :-D
[21:51] <kenvandine> dobey, is it banshee?
[21:51] <dobey> kenvandine: yes
[21:52] <kenvandine> seb128, do you have time to do it? i know it is late... if not i'll try to pick it up in a couple hours
[21:52] <seb128> kenvandine, just bounce to kees on #ubuntu-devel he's patch pilot
[21:52] <kenvandine> dobey, ^^
[21:52] <dobey> ok
[21:52] <kenvandine> thx :)
[21:53] <seb128> it's almost 11pm here, I'm over my work hours and about to go ;-)
[21:53] <kenvandine> dobey, let me know if there are problems, i am sure i'll be around tonight
[21:53] <kenvandine> seb128, indeed :)
[21:53] <dobey> kenvandine: ok, thanks
[21:53] <mterry> tedg, one thing
[21:53] <dobey> seb128: good night
[21:53] <kenvandine> i'll be needing to leave soon
[21:53] <kenvandine> but will be back
[21:54] <mterry> tedg, in new_item_normal(), you probably don't want to unref the gmi if you're sinking too
[21:54] <mterry> tedg, do you know that no other callers of dbusmenu_gtkclient_newitem_base do the same?
[21:54] <seb128> ok, enough for today, have fun everybody, see you next week
[21:54] <kenvandine> good night se
[21:54] <kenvandine> +b128
[21:54] <kenvandine> :)
[21:55] <tedg> mterry, I'll look at that, here's one back at you :-)
[21:56] <tedg> mterry, Do you think we need to check to see if the menu is visible before sending the close in stop_activating?
[21:56] <tedg> mterry, Just incase the menu didn't close with the activation.
[21:56] <mterry> tedg, hmm, that can happen?
[21:57] <tedg> mterry, Like the date/time with the calendar.
[21:57] <tedg> mterry, Seems it only would happen with custom menu items.
[21:57] <mterry> hmm
[21:58] <mterry> tedg, maybe we need a "tried to close" flag on the item and only send the delayed close if that flag has been set.  else let normal notify::visible handler handle it
[21:59] <tedg> mterry, Makes sense.
[21:59] <mterry> tedg, that branch can safely be delayed until post beta2 I think.  It's a little tricky and doesn't fix a crasher or anything
[21:59]  * mterry looks when beta2 is
[22:00] <mterry> ah, monday is freeze.  That's why you guys are so intent.  ;)
[22:00] <dobey> mterry: yes
[22:01]  * mterry lives in a bubble
[22:01] <dobey> mterry: i thought i had until tuesday evening, but alas :)
[22:01] <tedg> mterry, I don't see any reason to have the unref in new_item_normal.  I think I must have assumed there was a latent ref instead of that being initially unowned.
[22:01] <mterry> tedg, if this branch doesn't make it for monday, when is next opportunity?
[22:02] <tedg> Not sure.  kenvandine ^
[22:02] <kenvandine> after beta2 release at the soonest
[22:03] <kenvandine> indicator-application uploaded
[22:03] <mterry> that's fine.  just as long as there's a window after beta2 where normal releases can be made
[22:03] <kenvandine> it will be strict
[22:03] <mterry> tedg, let's wait on this branch while I think about the new flow with that flag
[22:03] <mterry> hm
[22:04] <kenvandine> but no worse than an SRU :)
[22:04] <kenvandine> i think every upload will need to get approved
[22:05] <seb128> kenvandine, not sure there is an upload frame between beta2 and naty
[22:05] <seb128> natty
[22:05] <mterry> kenvandine, guh, let's just put the indicator stack in universe.  Then we have until the 24th!
[22:05] <kenvandine> hehe
[22:05] <seb128> kenvandine, but yeah, ubuntu without a round of sru to fix dx bugs wouldn't be right ;-)
[22:05] <kenvandine> worse case we do an sru...
[22:06] <mterry> kenvandine, tedg: OK, I will make further changes on this sandwich branch tonight, and if you guys are feeling frisky this weekend, it can go in?
[22:06] <mterry> i assume you're both signing off now
[22:06] <kenvandine> anyway... i gotta run, kid activities...
[22:06] <tjaalton> fta: that sounds like a gpu hang to me. which hw?
[22:06] <mterry> kenvandine, see ya!
[22:06] <kenvandine> mterry, i'll be around tonight
[22:06] <tedg> I'm not quite yet, but sure.  I'll release it this weekend.
[22:06] <seb128> kenvandine, have fun
[22:06] <fta> tjaalton, nvidia
[22:06] <kenvandine> tedg, propose the dbusmenu branch and i'll look for it tonight
[22:06] <fta> tjaalton, happened twice in the last two days
[22:06] <seb128> mterry, if you have something to queue for upload just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors so europeans can upload it on monday morning
[22:07] <kenvandine> tedg, and feel free to ping me on IM if i don't respond on irc
[22:07] <tjaalton> fta: too bad then ;
[22:07] <tjaalton> )
[22:07] <mterry> seb128, k
[22:07]  * kenvandine runs... bbiab
[22:07] <fta> tjaalton, new regression
[22:07] <tjaalton> fta: since when?
[22:07] <fta> tjaalton, 2 days :)
[22:07] <tjaalton> fta: something else than x then
[22:07] <tjaalton> causing it
[22:08] <fta> there's not much in the log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/591464/
[22:09] <tjaalton> yep, the gpu is hung
[22:12] <fta> but the nvidia blob didn't change recently
[22:12] <fta> compiz did though
[22:13] <fta> could it be compiz 3D competing with mplayer vdpau?
[22:15] <bryceh_> fta, dmesg?
[22:17] <fta> i had to reboot since. but nothing relevant in /var/log/dmesg.0
[22:18] <tjaalton> try without compiz
[22:18] <fta> the thing is, it worked the second time
[22:18] <bryceh_> gpu hangs can often be intermittent
[22:19] <fta> both times it failed, a retry worked
[22:20] <fta> well no, the first time, once it killed mplayer, the display remained corrupted, blinking tiny squares everywhere
[22:20] <fta> -it+I
[22:20] <fta> the 2nd time, i was able to kill mplayer and compiz (twice) to get back to a normal situation
[22:20] <fta> weird
[22:22] <fta> killing mplayer alone was not enough to free X. killing compiz did it
[22:22] <fta> next time it happens, what info should i capture?
[22:23] <bryceh_> well, first caveat that with nvidia there's likely not much we can do on the X end
[22:23] <bryceh_> fta, after reproducing the problem ssh into the box and file a bug via 'ubuntu-bug xorg'.  And take a photo of the screen showing the corruption.
[22:24] <bryceh_> fta, the bug report will need to be filed with NVIDIA at their bug forum, so that would be the next action after that
[22:25] <bryceh_> fta, http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46678 is upstream place to send nvidia bugs
[22:25] <bryceh_> fta, but like tjaalton if you can isolate it to only occur with compiz, then maybe the compiz guys have some insights and/or know of ways to work around it on their end.
[22:26] <tjaalton> or unity
[22:26] <tjaalton> well, same guys i guess :)
[22:26] <bryceh_> fta, also would probably make sense to write down exactly what steps you take to reproduce it (including what video drivers mplayer is using, whether it's full screen, etc. etc.)
[22:33] <mterry> kenvandine, tedg: just to cover all my bases, branch updated (though I sent an email about it too)
[22:33] <fta> bryceh_, here the steps are easy, i clicked on a big mkv file, got mplayer playing fine, hit f for fullscreen and boom. i didn't get the full screen, video froze, the sound went in loop (same 2 secs over and over again) and whole desktop froze (no mouse, no keyboard)
[22:34] <tjaalton> fta: is this with unity? if so, try classic
[22:34] <fta> bryceh_, i sshed from my android tablet, saw X at 100%, killed mplayer, no change, killed compiz once, no change, twice, X recovered
[22:34] <fta> yes, with unity
[22:34] <bryceh_> aha
[22:35] <tjaalton> ok so it's compiz/unity doing it
[22:35] <tjaalton> er, triggering it
[22:35] <bryceh_> yep
[22:38] <bryceh_> fta, to translate... X at 100% cpu almost always means "some client process is stuck in a loop making X calls".  Standard practice for debugging is to kill procs until it stops; whatever that proc was is where the bug is
[22:39] <tjaalton> yeah, and the backtrace on the logfile means input is not getting through
[22:40] <fta> bryceh_, that's basically what i did ;)
[22:40] <fta> most likely culprits where mplayer (i use vdpau), compiz and chromium
[22:40] <fta> where
[22:41] <fta> grr, were
[23:05] <fta> tjaalton, i guess i should file a bug against compiz then, but they probably won't be able to reproduce :P
[23:08] <tjaalton> fta: why not? nvidia is quite popular..
[23:08] <tjaalton> for good and bad